WEBVTT - The Challenge for Dems Following the Mueller Report. Lanhee Chen talks to Armstrong & Getty 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:02.680 Let's put all of that out there as well, so 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.559 we can pass judgment about how the how the investigation 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.080 was conducted, or at least the predicate for the investigation 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.920 was conducted during the Obama year, right. Going to one 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.440 of the more interesting aspects of this, the whole Steel dossier, 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:19.480 the Carter Page warrant and the rest of it, that's 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:21.520 going to be one of those topics we hit at 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.439 greater length tomorrow. I suspect but a gentleman who worked 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.920 with Marco Rubio, who we just heard, Lanhachen, the host 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.920 of the podcast Crossing Lines with lanha Chen, also the 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.200 David and Diane Stephy Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.000 and the director of Domestic Policy Studies and Lecture in 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.440 the Public Policy Program at Stanford University, joins us now 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:42.360 loan here. How are you, sir, Joe? Good morning, How 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:46.159 are you terrific? Thanks? It's a it's an really really 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.840 interesting day on so many levels. What have you found 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.160 yourself thinking about most in the last forty eight hours 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:55.520 or so with the Muller report out, at least in 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.720 summary form. Well, it's interesting because I think, on the 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.640 one hand, it didn't really change the dialogue of either side. 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:09.240 You know, the Democrats all along have been banking on 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.520 this investigation. You'll notice that they have expanded the field 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:16.560 of their discussion to say any investigation of the president 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.280 that in some ways it almost didn't matter what was 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.040 in the Mulla report, because they have now expanded the 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:28.200 field beyond just the allegations of Russian collusion to say, essentially, 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:30.360 look at all these misdiefs the presidents engaging. And then 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.640 of course, for conservatives and those who support President Trump, 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.520 it's a it's a vindication of what they've been saying 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:40.479 all along regarding the president's alleged collusion with the Russians. 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.399 So it's funny. Yes, it is a big deal, and 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.160 I think it is clearly a huge victory for the president, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.280 but it does not, in my mind, change the political 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.720 dialogue that we're in, this really toxic cycle where Democrats 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:56.200 and progressives believe what they believe in Republicans and supports 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.560 of the president believe what they believe, and that's not 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:00.320 going to change. Tell me if I'm wrong on this, 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.400 because you could be right, and in a way I 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:06.600 hope you're right, because I would prefer frankly that the 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.200 Republicans win the next midterm. I don't hide my my 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.519 political leanings. On the other hand, I think it'd be 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.080 insane if the Democrats continued down this road, because the 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.919 strategy might not have changed. But it's like I'm watching 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.120 a football game and and they said, we're gonna come 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.400 out and throw the ball. Well, now the winds blowing 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.240 at sixty miles per hour. And by that I mean 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:31.320 the American people have become very, very cynical about investigations 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.000 in general. Is has made clear by the poll that 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.320 came out last week. I think it was before the 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.520 results of the Muller investigation even came out. You have 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.560 fifty saying yeah, this is a witch hunt. I mean, 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:43.480 if you continue to throw a ball in the face 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.320 of that sixty wind, I think you're crazy. You. I 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:50.359 think you're right, Joe. But I think what the challenges 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.360 for the Democrats is this, they have a progressive base 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:58.720 that is increasingly becoming influential in in how the Democratic 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.000 mainstream thing, and and those folks I'm talking about Bernie 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.160 Sanders and Alexandriacagio Cortez, etcetera. These folks are going to 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:11.800 continue with that same strategy visavi the president. So they're 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.400 not going to change, and they're gonna place tremendous pressure 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.360 on those who might want to take a more moderate line. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.000 Let's say, someone like Joe Biden or even Nancy Pelosi, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.480 who wants to say, look, let's focus on ways in 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.400 which the Trump administration might not be serving the American people. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.400 Whatever the line they want to take is, those folks 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.160 are going to be outshouted by the progressive left. And 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.440 I think the progressive left would love to continue to 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.280 go after President Trump. And and it doesn't matter what 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.160 the Mulla report says. I mean, they've been laying the 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.840 groundwork for this for the last week. They've said, look, 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.520 the Mulla Report is fine, we want to First of all, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.360 they're at the same they want to see the whole report. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.480 And second of all, they're saying, you know, regardless of 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.240 what happens in the report, you've got all sorts of 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.280 different pending investigations in the Southern District of New York, etcetera. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.760 So I don't imagine Joe the strategy is going to 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.160 change a whole lot for many Democrats. But I would 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.320 hope um for the same. The political competitiveness that they 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.560 would take a different line. So, Lanie, if you were 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.000 in charge then of White House messaging, and I think 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.480 that would be a huge step forward if you were, UM. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.600 But if you were in charge, what other than obviously 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.960 there is no collusion, what themes would you really hammer 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.440 in the coming weeks and in a few months, UM, 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.400 in contrast to what you just described, well, I would 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.680 I would come back to this basic point, which is 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.320 that the that the fundamentals of the economy at this 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.720 point looked looked pretty good. Americans by and large are 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.440 doing well, which is not to say that there aren't 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:39.960 any problems. President Trump's policies have been UM, have been 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.120 relatively positive for many Americans. I would focus on how 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.599 the administration is trying to do what it can to 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.360 improve the lives of Americans while Democrats are busy, uh, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.479 perpetuating this witch hunt that even Bob Mueller, even somebody 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.400 that they had said was it was a neutral arbiter 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.200 of the fact, even he has said that there was 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.400 nothing there. And yet they continue to be obsessed with Trump. 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.240 While they're obsessed with Trump, Trump is obsessed with helping 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.080 the American people, and and that's the message I would 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.560 come back to. I imagine that they're going to spend 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.159 a couple of days, by the way, because the president 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.520 will want to take a victory lap on this, and 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.360 I do hope they move beyond that to to begin 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.800 to address the substance, because I do think the President's 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.320 got a case to run for re election on that's 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:29.159 pretty solid. Right Well, Listen, I may be asking a 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.120 horse to play the clarinet here, but I've got to 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.919 believe if in the last month of the campaign, Trump 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.600 could adopt a Listen, I know I rub a lot 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.840 of people the wrong way. It's just it's me and 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:44.480 and I don't I'm sorry about that, but I really 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.560 care about this country above If he could be a 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.720 little self, if facing a little I understand, I piss 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.120 you people off. I understand I'm a tough guy to take, 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.280 you know, Assuming that there are no giant historic changes 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.360 as to what's going on in the country, I could 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:03.200 see that being really, really effective. Yeah, And I think 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.200 he could. He could do quite well. I mean I 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.440 think he could. Um, he could win more states than 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.640 he did in sixteen even and and a larger percentage 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.560 of the of the popular vote. I would also say, 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:15.920 you know that the one thing, just to go back 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.560 to the short term impact of this report. There's been 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.479 a lot of talk, you know, amongst the media, especially about, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.760 you know, will there be a Republican challenger to the president. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.279 I think the outcome of the Mulla report all but 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.800 guarantees there will not be a serious challenge to the 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.080 president from within the Republican party. So he's gonna be 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.000 running unopposed or as the Democrat. We're going to have 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:37.359 a blood bath here over the next six months. Lani 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.680 Chen is the host of the podcast Crossing Lines with 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.839 Lanha Chen. Do you have any thoughts on the question 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.320 of obstruction of justice? I thought that was really interesting 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.800 to me. The Special Council said, yeah, there's stuff that 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.920 looks like it, but there's stuff that makes it look 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:54.000 like probably not, and there wasn't an underlying crime, So 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.479 just done. I'll know. I mean, that's more or less 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.760 what he said. Yeah, I mean what it was interesting 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.440 us The line obviously that opponents of the president are 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.920 seizing on to say that that the Special Council wasn't 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:09.200 able to exonerate the president of the charge of obstruction. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.000 There's two things to bear in mind here. One is 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.080 the Special Council makes the point, according to the Attorney 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.080 General's letter, that everything the president had done potentially that 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.680 could make up an obstruction charge was done in public. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.520 So it's not like there's anything secretive or furtive that's 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.800 going on here. If you believe what the president did 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.960 made out a case for obstruction, everything he did was 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.880 in public. That's the first point. The second point is, look, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.360 it's up to the charging authority in this case, the 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:40.560 Attorney General, to determine whether whether the accumulated evidence makes 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.080 up a charge of obstruction, and and and so I 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.120 think the Special Council felt, look, we we certainly don't 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:48.720 have enough to pass judgment. The Attorney General felt that 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.400 that he and his team didn't have enough to pass judgment, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.520 and and and so I think this is one of 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.360 those things where, to the extent there is any political 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.200 wiggle room for the Democrats to argue the Mueller report 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.600 was full to Trump, they're going to seize on this point. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.920 But this point is such a specific point of law 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:07.800 that I don't think they're going to have a very 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.760 very good time trying to actually make headway out of 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.360 this one. And if a political fodder. To be sure, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.480 would you agree with me that I posited earlier in 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.160 the show that Donald J. Trump, real estate magnate, simply 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.800 took too much of his management playbook into the Oval 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.280 office with him and saying, look, this project is dead. 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.840 It's it's stupid, like for instance, the Flynn investigation or 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.560 the Russia collusion investigation. He was being a ceo saying, 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.160 you know this, this hotel is never gonna make money. 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.520 We gotta close it. It's dumb, and which is fine 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.960 as a real estate magnate, but as president, it looks 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:47.400 like obstruction of justice. I think that's probably what happened. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:48.880 I think you're right. I mean, I think that there 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.800 are a lot of things about First of all, nobody's 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.800 prepared to be president on day one. I don't care 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.319 how many jobs you've had before that might qualify you. 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.079 And and added at the fact that you know, Donald 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.760 Trump came out of a private sector culture that's pretty 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.240 different from a political culture, from from being a politician before. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.360 So yeah, I think there was a learning curve. I 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.360 think the way that he conducted himself probably was very 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.559 similar to how he conducted himself in the private sector. 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.760 So I think you're absolutely right on that account, and 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.520 I and I do think that. Again, the Special counsel 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.520 by by saying essentially, look, if you wanted to claim 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.280 obstruction obstruction of justice, there is nothing else you need 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.040 to know, or there's nothing else you need to look 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.240 at than what he did publicly, you can decide that. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.600 In my mind, the President can certainly use to his 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:34.960 favor because he can say, look, the only thing they're 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.520 alleging is stuff that's out of the open. So you 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.520 you'd be the judge if you think this was what 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.440 it was. But I think you're absolutely right. It goes 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.120 back to his conduct as a businessman, and I think 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.400 a lot of people would say, yeah, I mean as 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.439 a businessman, I completely understand that. Now as president of 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.040 standards different, but um, you know, I don't think it's 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.559 enough to to to create a debt in Trump's armor 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.800 going forward. What's crossing lines with lanh Chen going to 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.960 be about this week? Well, we haven't done an episode 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.240 a little while, in part because I've been on vacation. Uh, 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:04.760 we are gonna we are going to spend back up. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.280 I've got a couple of guests in the hopper for 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.360 the coming week. Some I'm working on the on on 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.760 economic policy. Some I'm talking a little bit about the 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.960 future of the healthcare debate. But this week we're gonna 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:15.880 do something on Mueller. Have to figure out who the 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.240 guests is gonna be. But but but hopefully it'll be 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:19.959 something good and we'll have that episode out by the 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.800 end of the week. I think, well, if you run 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.120 out of actual smart people to talk to, we'll talk 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.760 to you. But anyway, that would be fun. We have 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.800 to do that sometimes, we really do. That'd be a 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.600 lot of fun. We'd be delighted. Absolutely, it would be 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.599 an honor. Lana ch Chen is the host of the 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.080 podcast Crossing the Lines. Lani chen Fellow with the Hoover Institution, 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.439 heads up the domestic Policy department at Stanford. Lani, it's 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.280 always a pleasure. Thanks a million, thanks to a good day. 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.680 You got it? Uh so, yeah, I just it's funny. 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.880 I'm so much more into governance than politics. Jack's usually 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.080 the guy who really really wants to talk about the 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.640 politics of the stuff. But I'm telling you, just going 0:10:56.040 --> 0:11:00.680 forward the whole we've got to investigate. I just think 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.040 the the amount of eye rolling on the right and 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.560 in the Center over that very idea is well, I 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.120 think it's gonna be overwhelming. And listen, I'm not saying 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.880 it's completely nuts. If you can uncover the fact that 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.880 you know, Donald Trump actually was the guy who committed 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.079 the Son of Sam murders in the eighties or something 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.800 like that, I mean, well that was the seventies, I guess, 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.480 But I mean, go ahead, I suppose because that would 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.560 hurt the hell out of him in the election. But 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.640 I just I don't love your chances and coming up 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.080 with something like that, and you got fifty of Americans 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.959 at least thinking it's all witch Huntissa, Well, good luck, 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:42.040 Adam Schiff. You're listening to the Armstrong and Getty Show.