Speaker 1: Pushkin hey Slight Changers Maya here. We'll be resuming our
Speaker 1: regularly scheduled programming next week when we hear from Angela
Speaker 1: Duckworth about the science of grit But this week I
Speaker 1: wanted to share a special conversation I recently had with
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Olympians, Gabby Thomas. At the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one US Olympic Trials, Gabby became the second fastest
Speaker 1: woman ever when she ran the two hundred meters in
Speaker 1: twenty one point six one seconds, and she then went
Speaker 1: on to win two medals at the Tokyo Olympics. When
Speaker 1: I first heard about Gabby's ascent in track and field,
Speaker 1: I assumed her relationship with running was a relative straightforward,
Speaker 1: one passion at an early age match with a singular focus.
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case. I discovered that Gabby had
Speaker 1: competing interests and as a result, her focus was pulled
Speaker 1: in different directions over the course of her life, especially
Speaker 1: during her time as a Harvard undergrad, and this tension
Speaker 1: has led Gabby to continually question which path she should take.
Speaker 1: At times, She's even considered whether she should quit track altogether.
Speaker 1: And so, because this show is all about how we
Speaker 1: navigate those big inflection moments in our lives. I thought
Speaker 1: we could learn a lot from Gabby's story of change.
Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans,
Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we've become
Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. So I'd love
Speaker 1: to start by all the way back to your childhood.
Speaker 1: I think one thing a lot of people might not
Speaker 1: know about your story is that growing up you had
Speaker 1: no interest in being an athlete, right you wanted to
Speaker 1: study neurobiology. And I'm wondering if you can tell me
Speaker 1: more about your family and how it led you down
Speaker 1: that path in terms of going into neurobiology, that came
Speaker 1: from very personal experiences within my own family and just
Speaker 1: seeing how my brothers who are neuro atypical and who
Speaker 1: they are and how they navigated life. One of my
Speaker 1: younger brothers has autism. He has Aspergers and he was
Speaker 1: diagnosed at the age of four, I believe, and just
Speaker 1: watching how he navigates the world and how the world
Speaker 1: isn't exactly built for him, but he's so special and
Speaker 1: amazing in his own way. And then I have my
Speaker 1: twin brother who just battled Adhd. I believe he was
Speaker 1: diagnosed at eight and going through that and going through
Speaker 1: the school system and having to deal with that and
Speaker 1: having things not really be adapted towards you, but that
Speaker 1: you know, they have to adapt towards the world that
Speaker 1: they're living in. So at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: at this point, I decided that I wanted to study
Speaker 1: the nervous system and just explore that area. And I'm wondering, Gaddy,
Speaker 1: was there a specific moment in your life where you thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what I have to do with my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was definitely a moment when I was in high school.
Speaker 1: This random morning getting ready for school. My mom, my
Speaker 1: twin brother, and I were all in the kitchen, sitting
Speaker 1: at the kitchen table, just getting ready like we normally do.
Speaker 1: I was fixing a bowl of cereal. My brother was
Speaker 1: just grabbing his backpack getting ready to go, and my
Speaker 1: mom had asked him if he had taken its medication
Speaker 1: for school that day, and he said no, And of course,
Speaker 1: you know, she's thinking, well why not, because this is
Speaker 1: your normal. We should be taking medication so that you
Speaker 1: can go and focus. Then he had mentioned that he
Speaker 1: could not take the side effects anymore. He didn't like
Speaker 1: how it made him feel. And for me, what I
Speaker 1: had noticed in the weeks, even months prior to that
Speaker 1: exact moment, was that my brother was very different from
Speaker 1: the brother that I had grown up with. He was
Speaker 1: just this very very active and fun and silly kid.
Speaker 1: And then you'd notice as he would switch the medication,
Speaker 1: he just seemed so somber and just not quite himself.
Speaker 1: And I think we all noticed it. And my mom
Speaker 1: had gotten to a point where she did not know
Speaker 1: what to do, and the frustration just set in and
Speaker 1: my mom just started crying. I had never seen her
Speaker 1: cry like that, and I think it was very It
Speaker 1: was shocking for me, probably for my twin brother too,
Speaker 1: but definitely very shocking for me to witness that and
Speaker 1: to see that frustration and just not knowing what steps
Speaker 1: to take next. And so I think in that moment, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was very curious about it. I I was wondering, well,
Speaker 1: why is this it? Why is this his only option?
Speaker 1: Why is it that he has to be altering himself
Speaker 1: and who he is? So I was very Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was maybe sixteen at this time, and I decided that
Speaker 1: I wanted to go into neurobiology and study it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I can imagine as his sister just feeling
Speaker 1: so helpless, like, why is he having to make this
Speaker 1: trade off between feeling like himself and getting his school
Speaker 1: work done? Right? That's not right. And it's also as
Speaker 1: a twin sister, right. So I just I grew up
Speaker 1: with him and I did everything with him, and we
Speaker 1: just did everything together, and he was my best friend
Speaker 1: growing up. And to just see that kind of helplessness
Speaker 1: from someone who truly is just feels like a part
Speaker 1: of me was. It was pretty shocking. Wow, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can hear the passion and curiosity in
Speaker 1: your voice even now, you know, just talking about this,
Speaker 1: I'd love to pivot to running for a moment. I
Speaker 1: love the fact that you've been able to occupy these
Speaker 1: two very distinct worlds in your life, you know, track
Speaker 1: and public health, and also there's been so many ebbs
Speaker 1: and flows in your drive and motivation along the way,
Speaker 1: And to me, that's a part of your story that
Speaker 1: feels so relatable. I can't relate to being an incredibly
Speaker 1: fast runner, though. Note please that I was on the
Speaker 1: cross country team in high school and it was notably
Speaker 1: a walk on team, which is the only reason that
Speaker 1: I was on the cross country team in high school
Speaker 1: that I did log in my five case. Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the part that's that's so relatable to me is that
Speaker 1: you know, we all question at some point or another
Speaker 1: whether we're on the right path or whether we should
Speaker 1: change course. And it was so reassuring for me, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll be so reassuring for so many listeners
Speaker 1: that you fall into this camp too. I so appreciated
Speaker 1: the fact that you've said you didn't actually love running
Speaker 1: at first. And the reason I love that, Gabby, is
Speaker 1: because it runs so counter to the typical romantic story
Speaker 1: you hear from Olympians, right that it was like love
Speaker 1: it first step or love at first jump, for whatever
Speaker 1: whatever you know you hear out there, and so you
Speaker 1: know your story, it just feels kind of normal and
Speaker 1: an interesting way, right. It shows that passion can be cultivated.
Speaker 1: And so just bring me back to your first encounter
Speaker 1: with running. I'm wondering what that exposure was like. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually very funny that you bring that up, because
Speaker 1: a lot of times I do just kind of feel
Speaker 1: like such a phony, being like the only pro track
Speaker 1: athlete who didn't want to go into track and field.
Speaker 1: Whenever I talk about it with people, it's always like,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? So what are you doing here?
Speaker 1: But you can cultivate it. But yeah, So I got
Speaker 1: into track in middle school. My mom forced me to
Speaker 1: do it, and at the time I didn't want to go,
Speaker 1: and none of my friends were doing it, and I,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, I didn't want to run. Soccer was my
Speaker 1: first love, and they knew I was fast because I
Speaker 1: would run the ball in soccer and that was all
Speaker 1: I knew about running, and I knew I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do it. But I ended up going and being
Speaker 1: on the team and just running really fast. And from
Speaker 1: then on it was almost as if I didn't really
Speaker 1: have a choice but to do track and field because
Speaker 1: I was winning every race that I was put in,
Speaker 1: whether I just varied across the sprints and then even
Speaker 1: the jumps, so I was kind of in this position
Speaker 1: where I felt obligated to do it. Tell me more
Speaker 1: about that, because that is so interesting, right that when
Speaker 1: we see success in ourselves, even if it doesn't align
Speaker 1: with an active passion, we feel compelled in some way,
Speaker 1: like like we owe it to the world or owe
Speaker 1: it to ourselves. I don't know what it is, but
Speaker 1: that's exactly how I felt. Yeah, tell me more about that.
Speaker 1: That's exactly how I felt. I just I felt like
Speaker 1: I just owed it to the world. You have all
Speaker 1: these people who were congratulating me, telling me how proud
Speaker 1: they were of me, and they were so happy to
Speaker 1: have me on the team and have me running. It
Speaker 1: just felt like it I would have been a very
Speaker 1: big disappointment if I did not continue to run. It's
Speaker 1: a very weird feeling. And in hindsight, it's easy to say, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: then why did you continue to do it? But I
Speaker 1: think that's a lot of times that's how we operate,
Speaker 1: and you want to be successful so badly that sometimes
Speaker 1: you're just willing to like overlook whatever is making you happy. Actually,
Speaker 1: it is this interesting thing that we do in society
Speaker 1: where you kind of just don't want to waste your talent, right,
Speaker 1: And I had that talent and at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, you know, I do find that people do
Speaker 1: enjoy things that they're good at, and that is a
Speaker 1: true statement. But at the time, I didn't, you know,
Speaker 1: that was fine. I just continued to do it, and
Speaker 1: I just found joy in the little parts of it,
Speaker 1: made some friends on the team, and you know, you
Speaker 1: just find little aspects that you like. But ultimately track
Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't want it to be my thing, and
Speaker 1: then at some point, you know, I kept doing it
Speaker 1: through middle school, and then it was my software year
Speaker 1: in high school when I actually started to enjoy it
Speaker 1: and set goals for myself and actually be pretty motivated
Speaker 1: and determined in the actual sport. What do you think
Speaker 1: changed for you? What led you to suddenly start articulating
Speaker 1: these goals where it turned into a thing you were
Speaker 1: doing begrudgingly to a thing that was actually driving you
Speaker 1: day to day. Well, part of it was like, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to be here every day in the spring,
Speaker 1: then I should probably figure out a way to love it.
Speaker 1: But the biggest part of it was I had a
Speaker 1: coach who was pushing me a lot and actually just
Speaker 1: taught me a lot about working hard and actually getting
Speaker 1: out what you put in, and that's something that I
Speaker 1: had not really experienced before. So it was kind of
Speaker 1: just a mindset shift that was like, you know, it
Speaker 1: actually kind of transcended track and field itself. And it
Speaker 1: more just became something about me growing as a person.
Speaker 1: So it really wasn't about loving the running itself and
Speaker 1: loving running that two hundred meters, but it was more like, Okay,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to do this, I'm going to work
Speaker 1: hard here and then I'm going to see the results.
Speaker 1: And that's that was a rewarding part that I that
Speaker 1: I found to enjoy about it. Were there any role
Speaker 1: models you had in this space, anyone you saw crushing
Speaker 1: it out there that that let you up? Yeah? Well also,
Speaker 1: and Felix was always my role model. I remember when
Speaker 1: I was gosh, I had to be in middle school
Speaker 1: at my grandmother's house and the Olympic trials were on,
Speaker 1: and my mom told me to turn on the TV
Speaker 1: because there was someone on the screen that just reminded
Speaker 1: her of me. She had these long legs and she
Speaker 1: was just absolutely crushing it with grace and poise, And
Speaker 1: at the time I thought nothing about it. I said
Speaker 1: that is great for her, and my mom was like,
Speaker 1: you could be an Olympian one day, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: sounds great. Mom, so happy for Allison, but that's not
Speaker 1: my path. I just never considered it. And after that
Speaker 1: you know, I followed Allison's career a little bit, but again,
Speaker 1: I wasn't following professional track and field that closely. It's
Speaker 1: not something I inspired to do because I didn't know
Speaker 1: that it was something that I actually could do, especially
Speaker 1: for someone who just didn't do you know, club track
Speaker 1: or any like club sports like that. So I never
Speaker 1: paid that much attention to it. Yeah, I also didn't
Speaker 1: pay much attention to my cross country skills similar similar
Speaker 1: you know, not it had nothing to do with lack
Speaker 1: of ability or you know, slow times or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So you have this great coach, you're performing well in
Speaker 1: high school, but then there is this moment where you
Speaker 1: considered quitting running altogether when you were just graduating from
Speaker 1: high school. What is it that led you to continue
Speaker 1: on at that moment in time. So there was a
Speaker 1: lot of that back and forth throughout my entire college
Speaker 1: career where I was thinking, is track and field right
Speaker 1: for me? Is this the path that I want to
Speaker 1: go down? Is it you know, taking opportunities for me?
Speaker 1: At this point? You know, what where am I going
Speaker 1: to go from here? And there are so many things
Speaker 1: that I wanted to accomplish, especially after landing at Harvard University.
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, there are just so many things
Speaker 1: I can study that will take a lot of time.
Speaker 1: If I want to do labs, that will take a
Speaker 1: lot of time. If I want to study abroad, that
Speaker 1: will take a lot of time, And I don't know
Speaker 1: if I can do both. I was taking this course
Speaker 1: sick and Tired of being sick and tired, and it
Speaker 1: sparked an interest in me in sociology and biology. And
Speaker 1: there were other things on campus that I wanted to
Speaker 1: be a part of, other organizations and extracurriculars that I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a part of, a lot of social
Speaker 1: things that I wanted to be a part of, because
Speaker 1: that's also the fun part of Harvard is like meeting
Speaker 1: all of these really fascinating and interesting people. And it
Speaker 1: was finding that balance. It was very very hard for
Speaker 1: me to do. Yeah, I'm wondering if we can talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about this really critical class you
Speaker 1: took at Harvard Um, which which seems to have led
Speaker 1: you to double down on your commitment to working in
Speaker 1: the public health space. Can you tell me more about
Speaker 1: the class? Yeah, so sick and Tired of being sick
Speaker 1: and tired? Was this freshman seminar that I took in
Speaker 1: the fall, and it was about health disparities and racism
Speaker 1: in medicine, something that I had never been familiar with.
Speaker 1: We're not taught that in school. We're not taught that
Speaker 1: in high school, especially not in the white communities that
Speaker 1: you know, I was growing up in. It was when
Speaker 1: we were learning about the Tuskegees of syphilist study and
Speaker 1: we were learning about Henrietta Lacks, and these two stories
Speaker 1: were just great examples of how black bodies are are
Speaker 1: disregarded in medicine. And it was just very, very mind
Speaker 1: blowing and very impactful. I want to talk about this
Speaker 1: moment I read about where you're you're you're taking this class.
Speaker 1: It's getting you all sorts of new insights about the
Speaker 1: depths of medical racism that plague our country's history and
Speaker 1: also our country's present. And then you speak to your
Speaker 1: mom about it. Yeah. So my mom is actually a
Speaker 1: rockstar in her own right. So she is an education
Speaker 1: and her whole objective in life is to fight racism
Speaker 1: and education, right, and so she's always been one to
Speaker 1: just fight racial injustice. And but she's never kind of
Speaker 1: we never had that conversation right about my career. Um,
Speaker 1: and she's never forced any type of career on me.
Speaker 1: So I think when I called her and told her
Speaker 1: about what I was studying and I felt like this
Speaker 1: fiery passion about it, she was like, yes, like this
Speaker 1: is what you know. We owe it to the world
Speaker 1: to fight these injustices. And she told me, you know
Speaker 1: that I'm put in this position and it's not a coincidence,
Speaker 1: and that this is what I was meant to do,
Speaker 1: and that it's my responsibility just as a black woman,
Speaker 1: with this opportunity and with this platform, to to go
Speaker 1: into it and fight injustice. And so that that's something
Speaker 1: that really stuck with me and inspired me because she
Speaker 1: she did the same thing. And you know, when I
Speaker 1: look back and I think where my mother came came from.
Speaker 1: She came from just complete poverty and mobile Alabama and
Speaker 1: worked her way through school being you know, just finishing
Speaker 1: and going through undergrad to grad school to PhD and
Speaker 1: using her experience and her mastery and her opportunity to
Speaker 1: pay it forward and to fight for people who are
Speaker 1: underserved in the world. So yeah, absolutely, my mom inspired
Speaker 1: me so much to just pay it forward and fight
Speaker 1: the injustices that I'm that I witness So Harvard Gaddy
Speaker 1: is falling in love with public health and you know,
Speaker 1: aspiring public health official who's helping to bridge racial gaps
Speaker 1: in the system, racial inequity, and yet this track thing
Speaker 1: keeps happening to you. It sounds like right, and it's
Speaker 1: it's just so fascinating for me to have learned more
Speaker 1: about you, because it just it feels like running was
Speaker 1: this continual thing that you just kept falling into. Right,
Speaker 1: It's it's like this afterthought, but eventually it's just hard
Speaker 1: for you to deny just how remarkable your potential is.
Speaker 1: Right is that? Is that? Am I accurate in capturing
Speaker 1: one percent? What it was? So? Yeah, my freshman year track,
Speaker 1: it wasn't afterthought and I hated that, and it was
Speaker 1: something that I was incredibly insecure about just being on
Speaker 1: the team. And you know, there's this culture of just
Speaker 1: being very intense and being all in and very committed,
Speaker 1: and I was going through the motions of that because
Speaker 1: you know, I was doing that. I was showing up
Speaker 1: every day on time when I went to the track,
Speaker 1: I put my one hundred percent all into it. But
Speaker 1: it was so hard for me right to actually make
Speaker 1: that a mental priority the way that other things were
Speaker 1: for me, especially just growing up with education being the
Speaker 1: number one priority and that always was, and the sports
Speaker 1: were always just something that you did after school. And
Speaker 1: so my freshman year, after I finished it, it became
Speaker 1: even harder because I was doing resource at Boston Children's
Speaker 1: Hospital on rut syndrome, which is a form of autism,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to get my foot in the door
Speaker 1: right in research and the neurobiology, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: have that experience because I was afraid that if I didn't,
Speaker 1: that I might fall behind. I might fall behind all
Speaker 1: of my peers who were doing and pursuing their passions.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, that was an Olympic Trials year,
Speaker 1: and I was running so fast that season, and the
Speaker 1: season just kept going. I had to go to regionals,
Speaker 1: and then I had to go to Nationals, and then
Speaker 1: next with the Olympic Trials, and so that summer I
Speaker 1: was balancing working my research job and then also doing
Speaker 1: track and field, and at the end and also working
Speaker 1: at the dry cleaners because I had to make money,
Speaker 1: and so it was it was very stressful summer for me,
Speaker 1: and I felt like I was being pulled in every
Speaker 1: direction and also just trying to be a human and
Speaker 1: live my life and have that balance. And so I
Speaker 1: think what ended up making me a little bit resentful
Speaker 1: of track and field during that freshman summer was that
Speaker 1: I was not able to put in the hours that
Speaker 1: I wanted to at my research opportunity. And I felt
Speaker 1: like I was losing so much of that opportunity on
Speaker 1: this end of my life because I had to be
Speaker 1: all in for track and field. You know, once you
Speaker 1: travel to a meet, you can't halfway travel. Your body
Speaker 1: is fully there and you're present there, and that's what
Speaker 1: you have to do. And I couldn't be present at
Speaker 1: my lab and it frustrated me, and it made me
Speaker 1: very very nervous and insecure about just what I was
Speaker 1: going to do outside of the track world, and that
Speaker 1: definitely carried into my sophomore year. It was an Olympic
Speaker 1: year that was really twenty sixteen, And the thing about
Speaker 1: the trials in twenty sixteen is that they actually went
Speaker 1: really well for me. I got to sixth placed in
Speaker 1: the final and the two hundred and had ran alongside
Speaker 1: Alison Felix, right, which is this amazing and wild dream
Speaker 1: that I couldn't believe what was happening, but somehow I
Speaker 1: was still resentful about it, Reno, And I've never actually
Speaker 1: admitted that out loud anywhere to anyone except for right now,
Speaker 1: but that's how I felt. Look, Gadby, I love your candor,
Speaker 1: and I totally understand why it's been so hard to
Speaker 1: admit that, because when we admit that we feel resentful
Speaker 1: about something, we worry that in turn will face the critique.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't she just be grateful that she's been given all
Speaker 1: these gifts, as though we're not entitled to feel the
Speaker 1: things that we feel as we move about in this world,
Speaker 1: which you absolutely are allowed to do. And so I
Speaker 1: think sharing that actually is going to make a lot
Speaker 1: of people feel more comfortable admitting that to themselves, because
Speaker 1: a lot of us are out in the world trying
Speaker 1: to meet other people's expectations, feeling like we owe the
Speaker 1: world something, but maybe it's not the right choice for us.
Speaker 1: And sometimes the first step is just saying this mental
Speaker 1: calculation just isn't working for me, you know, yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 1: I was at a crossroads at this point where I
Speaker 1: had to decide what mattered to me and what was
Speaker 1: my priority? And oh man, so I decided to just
Speaker 1: take a trip to Senegal for her for eight weeks
Speaker 1: and completely reset and not worry about any of it.
Speaker 1: And the Senegal I studied the culture and the religion.
Speaker 1: Then I had a fun cohort of people, and I
Speaker 1: didn't train on a track for a single second. I
Speaker 1: didn't do any neurobiology work for a single second. And
Speaker 1: I just did what I wanted to do. And I
Speaker 1: came back and was actually I had a very clear
Speaker 1: mind and had a very clear headspace of what I
Speaker 1: wanted to do. Huh say more about that, How did
Speaker 1: it bring you clarity having this reset moment or that
Speaker 1: this brief respite from the stresses of your daily life.
Speaker 1: I didn't expect it to be like that. So I
Speaker 1: didn't take the trip thinking, oh, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: reset and figure out what I want to do in
Speaker 1: my life. I think just stepping away from that and
Speaker 1: having the freedom and the liberation to just think for
Speaker 1: myself and be myself and be it so far away,
Speaker 1: the thousands of thousands of miles from any of the
Speaker 1: pressure that was being put on me back home. It
Speaker 1: was not having access to social media for the majority
Speaker 1: of the time, so not even being able to contact
Speaker 1: people who were asking me to do something or encouraging
Speaker 1: me to do something one way or another. I was
Speaker 1: just completely myself and everything was just completely simplified. So
Speaker 1: it shifted my perspective. I came back and I thought,
Speaker 1: why not just do exactly what I want to do?
Speaker 1: And I knew what I wanted what I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do when I got back there. I knew that
Speaker 1: I didn't want to stress myself out trying to strike
Speaker 1: this balance between between school and track. I just had
Speaker 1: kind of let all that anxiety go and all that
Speaker 1: pressure go, at least for that time. And so my
Speaker 1: junior year, I somehow it all just kind of fell
Speaker 1: together in the classroom. I started taking these fun sociology
Speaker 1: courses that complimented by biology courses, and track and field
Speaker 1: just went very well from me that year, and that
Speaker 1: ended up being my breakout year where I broke the
Speaker 1: collidate record and won the NCAA Championship, which was just
Speaker 1: ironic because I had not even finished my sophomore season.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people were just incredibly
Speaker 1: shocked that I would come back after that and not
Speaker 1: having trained all summer just to go do that. But
Speaker 1: it was just it was a mindset shift. It was
Speaker 1: it was it just clicked. Everything came together in my
Speaker 1: junior year and I was just so much happier. And
Speaker 1: you enjoyed running your junior year? Is that right to
Speaker 1: say I enjoyed it? Yes? And I enjoyed running. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed like I enjoyed being on the track, and I
Speaker 1: enjoyed racing, And that is genuinely when I actually loved it.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Gavy, tell me if you think this hypothesis
Speaker 1: is right. But it does feel like, I mean, nothing
Speaker 1: changed about the workout, it's nothing changed about how grueling
Speaker 1: it is to be an athlete. But it does seem
Speaker 1: like what change coming out back from Senegal is that
Speaker 1: you were finally running on your own terms. It was
Speaker 1: finally a decision that you felt you were making that
Speaker 1: the world wasn't making for you. And maybe that's where
Speaker 1: that joy came from. I think one I think I
Speaker 1: had taken everything and just put it on my own terms,
Speaker 1: completely running on my own terms, deciding not to be pigeonholed,
Speaker 1: to decide nothing was made for me. I think that
Speaker 1: that made the difference. After the break, we'll hear all
Speaker 1: about Gabby's journey to the Olympics. We'll be back in
Speaker 1: a moment with a slight change of plans. I've got
Speaker 1: to talk about the Olympics and your journey to the Olympics. Um, oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, tell me about the twenty twenty one US
Speaker 1: Olympic trials. I have watched that video on loop. It
Speaker 1: is one of the most joyful human moments. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this is your story to tell. Yeah, that's definitely the
Speaker 1: most joyful moment of my wife. I think that realization
Speaker 1: that I was crossing the line, in the realization that
Speaker 1: I was going to the Olympics, right, was the first
Speaker 1: thing that I was very excited about. And I've realized that,
Speaker 1: you know, halfway down the street at the end of
Speaker 1: my two hundred meters, that I'm going to make this
Speaker 1: Olympic team. That's time and Thomas Thomas is Thomas is
Speaker 1: going to And then I realized that I was coming
Speaker 1: in first and winning a national championship and that I
Speaker 1: was definitely making this Olympic team, and that was the
Speaker 1: most joyous moment of all. But then there was the
Speaker 1: realization that my time was the second fastest time ever
Speaker 1: ran behind Flojoe and everyone knows Flojoe, And then it
Speaker 1: was just unbelievable for me. I couldn't even hide how
Speaker 1: excited I was. You were not advised to throw your
Speaker 1: hands in the air before you finished this sprint race,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't help it. I pictured that. You have
Speaker 1: no idea how many people yelled at me. We were
Speaker 1: all throwing our hands in the air for you. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: Everyone's like, oh, you know, you should have done that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't care, m And just the excitement
Speaker 1: was it's I can't even explain it. It was such
Speaker 1: an amazing feeling. I pictured the moment so many times
Speaker 1: in my head before actually running the race, and then
Speaker 1: to have that visualization come to life was an amazing experience,
Speaker 1: especially because leading up to that moment just I don't
Speaker 1: know if people realize, but trials is the most stressful
Speaker 1: thing that I think any athlete has will ever do.
Speaker 1: The entire two weeks that I was there, I did
Speaker 1: not eat or sleep because it was just so anxiety inducing.
Speaker 1: And it's just pretty much, you know, for a track athlete,
Speaker 1: it's just you versus the track, so there is there
Speaker 1: are no other factors that go into it. There's nobody
Speaker 1: else you can blame. It's really just you and what
Speaker 1: you've put in. So I just made it that much
Speaker 1: better when I actually did make the team, because we
Speaker 1: all know that the Olympic being postponedde to COVID was
Speaker 1: whole craziness. I you know, I picked up my entire
Speaker 1: life and moved to Austin, Texas to make this Olympic team,
Speaker 1: so everything needed to work out, and so I'm very
Speaker 1: grateful that it did. Yeah, and You've said that when
Speaker 1: you had this magnificent performance at trials, all of a
Speaker 1: sudden there was a mindset shift again right where you're
Speaker 1: going from running track to now competing for gold at
Speaker 1: the Olympics, which is obviously an exceptional version of a shift,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's very relatable for so many
Speaker 1: of us that there are these key moments in life
Speaker 1: where suddenly our goals come into sharp focus and it
Speaker 1: just really changes the game. Yeah, that is actually very true.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I had moved to Austin, Texas at
Speaker 1: the end of twenty nineteen with the intentions of making
Speaker 1: the Olympic team. And then very possibly just moving on
Speaker 1: from track and field after accomplishing that and pursuing public
Speaker 1: health or pursuing a career that I wanted, you know,
Speaker 1: something else that I wanted to do with, you know,
Speaker 1: going to school and getting me a master in public
Speaker 1: health and then working after that. But after I made
Speaker 1: the team with a time like that, yeah, suddenly I decided, Okay,
Speaker 1: well now I can actually go for a gold medal.
Speaker 1: And so that was it was such a rapid shift
Speaker 1: and so rapid and huge, and I just felt it
Speaker 1: so holy. And then you know, when I was at
Speaker 1: the Olympics, it was a shift because now I decided
Speaker 1: that I'm probably going to continue running for through the
Speaker 1: next Olympics, and that just wasn't what I had in
Speaker 1: mind before. It was definitely a change in plans. And
Speaker 1: so now now I'm just I'm focused on that. Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm focusing on World Championships its next year, and then
Speaker 1: World Championships again and then the Olympics. By the way,
Speaker 1: I'm glad you omitted the slight part of the change
Speaker 1: in plants. I think this is a sizable change in plans.
Speaker 1: I've got rid of the cheeky slight yeah, it was sizable.
Speaker 1: So how how has this influenced how you see the
Speaker 1: coming years? Right? So, you you're, from what I understand,
Speaker 1: currently pursuing your masters in epidemiology and tech exist. You
Speaker 1: said you are competing or you plan to compete in
Speaker 1: the World Championships. Um. Is this now the new balancing
Speaker 1: act for Gabby Thomas? Yeah? You know, I do what
Speaker 1: I can. Um, So yeah, right now I'm currently doing
Speaker 1: getting my masters in public health, specifically epidemiology and health
Speaker 1: care administration, and I am still competing and I plan
Speaker 1: to be competing in track and field for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I was going to say, you know less
Speaker 1: listeners think it was like a super clear cut decision. Again,
Speaker 1: from what I understand, you did think you might quit
Speaker 1: track again even after the Olympics. Is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did think. I did think I might quit, or
Speaker 1: I'll call it retire, retire. I feel a little bit
Speaker 1: nicer than quitting. Okay, Gabby was odd record is potentially
Speaker 1: wanting to retire? Um? Can you can you tell me
Speaker 1: more about about that decision? Because like, again, look, I
Speaker 1: think it's very easy for all of us to look
Speaker 1: at you and be like Gabby Thomas that girls got
Speaker 1: it figured out, and knowing that even in that moment
Speaker 1: after winning these two medals at the Olympics, you're still like,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe I've done You know, in those moments, what's
Speaker 1: the calculation you're doing your head, like, what would need
Speaker 1: to be in what needs to be in place for
Speaker 1: you to say, Okay, yeah, I'm continuing running. Yeah. It's
Speaker 1: actually really funny because I decided that the reason why
Speaker 1: I wanted to retire are very possibly thought about retiring
Speaker 1: was because, like just like in college, I think it
Speaker 1: was a similar thing where there were so many things
Speaker 1: that I wanted to pursue, and I was told that
Speaker 1: as a pro athlete that you had to fully commit
Speaker 1: to being a professional athlete. And what I learned in
Speaker 1: the last year was that that was not the case
Speaker 1: and I had to take a risk. And I was
Speaker 1: told that I may have been doing too much and
Speaker 1: that I was very risky. Again, I was told not
Speaker 1: to move to Austin, Texas during an Olympic year. I
Speaker 1: was told that I should not be taking classes, I
Speaker 1: should not be wor while training. It was doing too much,
Speaker 1: and I realized it wasn't. And the reason that is
Speaker 1: is because I loved everything that I was doing, and
Speaker 1: everything that I was doing was recharging and it was
Speaker 1: fueling me. So when I was in school, I couldn't
Speaker 1: wait to get to the track, and when I was,
Speaker 1: you know, at the track, I couldn't wait to go
Speaker 1: back and just hang out and be in my class
Speaker 1: and not be dying by four hundreds. So they both
Speaker 1: kind of like recharged each other. And so when I
Speaker 1: realized that, I thought, Okay, well, I can definitely do
Speaker 1: both at a great level, and so why not do it?
Speaker 1: And if there ever comes a time where I do
Speaker 1: feel like it's too much, then I'll dial it back
Speaker 1: a little bit. Or if there's ever a time where
Speaker 1: I feel like I need to shift gears because I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't like what I'm doing anymore, I think that's
Speaker 1: okay too. The only real pressure I feel is the
Speaker 1: external pressure. Right. It's like this idea they nicknamed me
Speaker 1: wonder Woman, that I'm doing all of these things and
Speaker 1: I'm doing them all so well, well, I would hate
Speaker 1: to let anyone down. But you know, at the same time,
Speaker 1: I am doing all of these things ill because I
Speaker 1: continue to choose me and to choose what makes me happy.
Speaker 1: So if I want to shift gears again one day
Speaker 1: after getting my master's in public health, I'm one hundred
Speaker 1: percent okay with that. If one day I wake up
Speaker 1: and decide that track is not for me, then I'm
Speaker 1: okay with that too. But for now, they're both going well,
Speaker 1: and I'm having so much fun and I'm loving it.
Speaker 1: I'm loving my life and I'm loving the decisions and
Speaker 1: choices that I've made for myself. And I'm designed to
Speaker 1: continue to choose both. Oh, I love that. Thank you, Gavy,
Speaker 1: thank you, and this is so much fun. Hey, thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. Join me next week, And I really mean
Speaker 1: next week when I talk with psychologists Angela Duckworth about
Speaker 1: the science of grit and how natural talent and ability
Speaker 1: will only get you so far. I really don't know
Speaker 1: anybody who has become you know, world class and economics
Speaker 1: or at you know, being a political leader or anything else,
Speaker 1: you know, a classroom teacher, a nurse like without you know,
Speaker 1: just years and years of effort. A Slight Change of
Speaker 1: Plans is created, written an executive produced by Ni Maya Shanker.
Speaker 1: The best part of creating this show is getting to
Speaker 1: collaborate with my formidable Slight Change family. This includes Tyler Green,
Speaker 1: our senior producer, Jen Guera, our senior editor, Ben Holliday,
Speaker 1: our sound engineer, Emily Rostek, our associate producer, and Neil
Speaker 1: LaBelle our executive producer. Louise Scara wrote our delightful theme song,
Speaker 1: and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, so big
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone there, and of course a very special
Speaker 1: thanks to Jimmy Lake. You can follow A Slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plants on Instagram at doctor Maya Shunker, and please
Speaker 1: remember to subscribe, share, and rate the show to help
Speaker 1: get the word out. See you next week. I don't
Speaker 1: plan on retiring anytime soon. Maybe when I'm thirty five.
Speaker 1: You're telling me it's too late, Gabby, because I turned
Speaker 1: thirty six in a few weeks. My dreams are over.
Speaker 1: Gaddy's going require thirty five folks. I'm over the hill.
Speaker 1: I know actually quite a few thirty five year olds
Speaker 1: who actually competed for us. I did very well. Chance, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's still a fighting chance.