WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Harold Wilson Resignation Conspiracy 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.200 Thinking Sideways is not supported by the Society of the 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.920 Blind Eye. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations of 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.200 our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash thinking 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:20.320 sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:28.760 you never know stories of things we simply don't know 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:34.360 the answer too. Well, you're there. Welcome to another episode 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.159 of Thinking Sideways. I'm your host this week, joined as 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.000 always by my friends Stephen Devon. Say hi guys, Hi, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:49.760 Hi Joe, Hi, audience, Hey, we love you. Okay, let's 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:55.880 it going wild? Uh So this week, according to the emails, yeah, 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.840 we don't get any email. Somebody sayd us an email. Yeah, yeah, 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.520 just kidding. But uh uh so this week we are 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.399 going to be talking about another baffling mystery. Sorry to 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.720 say this one doesn't involve any bloodshed, immulated bodies, or 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.679 beheadings or anything, so sorry about that. Although I get 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:14.399 I do get emails. I got an email a while 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:16.520 back from some guys saying we were just focusing too 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.360 much on bloody stuff. I agree, we always do. Yeah, 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.480 we kind of do a lot. So so yeah, no, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.440 not really, we did theok, we did that little useless 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.959 head that somebody stuck in the that the tomb, Yeah 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.360 there was that one was shut up. I'm sorry that 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.680 was part of the key chain, I think. Uh where Okay? 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.600 Back to our story. Uh. It begins in nineteen seventy six. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.400 On March sixteenth of that year, Prime Minister Harold Wilson 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.720 of the United Kingdom suddenly announced that he was resigning 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.160 his job, just like that. He hadn't even been in 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.120 it for two years. He also didn't give a reason why, 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.040 he just said he was quitting. And people have been 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:56.760 wondering about it ever since. And so people are saying 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.000 why did he resign? And this has been going up 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.920 for thirty plus years and as recently it's just this 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.240 past August, the Daily Mail in the UK published you 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:10.360 had another article about it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I quote 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.440 them a little later on, but I'm not totally placing 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.639 total credence under theory. But just goes to show you 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.120 in the UK at least this story is actually still 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.520 talked about. Can we be honest in the UK? If 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.320 it's been in the Daily Mail more than twice, It's 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.480 been in the Daily Mail about thirty seven times. Because 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:31.880 they love to trot things out on yeah, and I 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.480 swear they've got like a rollo decks of old stories. 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:42.440 Let's kind of like bat Boy. Yeah. I like that 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:47.680 boy too. That boy appears in twelve Monkeys, by the way. Yeah, okay, First, 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.960 just a quick little background. Harold Wilson entered the British 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.919 Parliament in as a Labor MP. Uh. He was actually 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.960 it was kind of a Minister of Parliament. Yeah yeah, 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.880 Member of parliament yeah, not military police. Uh. And it 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:02.760 was kind of a fluke in a sense because he 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.800 was actually in academia and some Labor Party types decided 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:08.200 they wanted to put him up to run in this 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.760 one district. They didn't think he was gonna win. They 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:12.639 just wanted a candidate to run, and well, it turns 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.840 out he won. So he was a part of parliament 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.240 and he was in parliament for like, you know, thirty 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.720 years after um and he quickly rose through the ranks 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.200 in the Labor Party that I didn't mention his Labor 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:29.799 and by nineteen sixty three he was shadow Foreign Secretary. 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.320 You know. So when you're when you're in the opposition, 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:36.840 you're out of power of the party, you still have 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.520 a full minority. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, still you still 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.240 have a full cabinet, so he's like the minority foreign secretary. Yeah. 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.440 So essentially okay, so you're when you I prefer the 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:52.240 way that they do that parliamentary thing like yeah, shadow member. Yeah, 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.560 you got these guys secretary. Yeah. It's almost like Harry 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.920 Potter was written in the UK or something almost. Yeah, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:01.720 so you get to wear a cape and everything. It's 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.680 got a little mask. But uh yeah, okay, opportunity came knocking. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.240 Hugh gate Skill, the head of the party that's the 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:11.760 Labor Party, was suddenly stricken with a rare disease called 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:18.680 systemic lupus uh arithmatosis. I'm sure miss pounced, yeah, but 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.160 we'll it was. We'll call it lupas. Uh. He just 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.919 was stricken and suddenly died. Bamn like that. It was 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:25.680 at the age of fifty six. It's kind of a 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.640 shocker for everybody. But of course they had to elect 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.560 a new leader. There was a there was an election 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.839 within the party. Harold Wilson was elected as gate Skills successor, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.600 and then in the following year in Ateen sixty four, 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:38.880 Labor one of the the majority of seats in parliament and 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.400 Harold Wilson became prime minister just like that? Is that? 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.159 Is that how it works? Yeah, it's just like it's 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.960 like the House majority leader is prime minister kind of 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.000 like that. After the head of the party, then you 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.240 become prime minister. Interesting And what's what it took me 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.200 a while to really wrap my head around is that 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.080 in this country our elections are very regimented. There every 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.440 four every two two years for certain seats, or every 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.400 four years for other seats, or six years for the Senate. Right, 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:10.040 but if for Parliament it's no, it's it's you can't 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.760 go more than five years without an election. So at 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.120 two years you could say, I'm going to prove that 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.760 we're still strong and having elections, or you could wait 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.400 till four years or wait till the fifth. It's it's 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.600 really kind of willing. Nearly a little bit is strength. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.720 Like the national elections are like that. Yes, literally, somebody 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:31.400 is just like, you know what, let's have an election 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:36.320 this year. Yeah. Or sometimes what happens is say if 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.560 if neither no party wins a majority, I saw the 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.320 majority in the form of coalition, and sometimes the coalitions, 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.760 well they start quarreling and they break up and bam 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.839 and then and I know the Queen comes in at 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.360 some point in this entire process, but I don't remember 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.279 where that. Yeah, she comes down and just you know, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:59.160 spank him or something them. So Wilson just ends up 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.680 random movie prime minister. Yeah, so Harold, Yeah, it becomes 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.159 prime minister and back to Hugh Gatescale for a second. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.400 His death, as I said, was very, very shocking to everybody, 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.240 and of course it spawned a few conspiracy theories, which 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.400 gives us a nice little mystery within a mystery, which 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.599 was he murdered, Yeah, and by whom. It is the 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.680 one theory that's out there, as the Soviets murdered him 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.680 because they wanted him out of the way so that 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.240 their buddy Wilson would be in line for the prime 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.800 minister slot. But anyway, we'll talk about that later, but 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.800 it's still a popular theory. It's out there. Harold Wilson 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.479 served as Prime Minister until nineteen seventy when Labor got 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:39.440 turned out, So that's six years six years roughly, and 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.880 then uh in nineteen seventy four Labor came back in, 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.080 so he became prime Minister again, and then less than 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.760 two years later in March sixteen, nineteen seventy six, he 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.080 announced that he was resigning, and to this day we 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.040 still don't actually know why. And I'm trying to remember 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:59.000 who was it that was prime minister in between, because 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.320 it was one guy in a four yr span. Believe 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.200 it was Edward Heath, Yes it was and he So 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.440 this is where that whole like, we're going to have 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.480 an election. He decided to do this, you know, to 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.880 have an election to prove that what he was doing 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.160 was right and was turned out maybe not, And it 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.800 turned out he totally got it handed to him. And 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.280 that's how how Harold ended up back in the back 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.840 in office. And I don't think Harold actually came in 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.640 with a resounding majority. I think he had three seats extra. 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.000 That was about it. So it wasn't huge, but it 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.800 wasn't not to make him prime minister. All right, let's 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:34.680 go straight into theories. I mean, that's a short story, 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.240 don't you think. Yeah, I mean I guess in my 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.240 mind the answer is pretty short, right, is like being 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.840 prime minister probably kind of sucks. And he did it 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.679 for like six years and then he was like, oh crap, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.880 this again, and then he did it for a couple 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:50.000 of years and he was like, no, no no, no, I 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.520 really do hate this. By there you go, that's my theory. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.080 Episode over. Great, that's a plausible theory. Yeah, that is 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.360 a plausible theory. But there's many others. Some of them 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.280 are juicier than that. Yeah, I mean that's a good 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:07.480 practical theory. I do have to admit. Yeah. Well, first theory, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.000 and this is only a partial theory, was that his 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.680 wife just wanted out. Because his wife, Mary was uh, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.240 he's a very private person and she didn't want to 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.120 be a politician's wife. No, not really, she was like 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.520 a professor's wife. Yeah. She really preferred the academic life 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.720 and what that's then, that's what Harold was originally was 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.280 an academic and she kind of preferred that, and she 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:31.480 didn't like the publicity and all that she did. She 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.880 didn't like the nastiness of all the politics. And you know, 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.120 in all the years since she left and then the 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.599 years since he died, she's pretty much stayed out of 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.520 the public life and she's not talked to anybody. She's 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.640 given like one interview in that entire time. I think, Yeah, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.760 she's a very private person. Yeah, she went to like 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.200 the big events and she would be by his side 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.640 and go to the dinners and whatnot. There's actually I 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.120 was looking at through the records and there's a picture 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.760 of Wilson and his wife and the other prime minister, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:04.600 Harold and his wife Harold hold at at an event. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.000 So it was like, wait, wait, which one are we 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.120 talking about here? I love it? Uh yeah, don't don't 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.840 lose that picture. By the way, thankfully it was on 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.560 the international again. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:17.800 But but you know what the problem with the series is, 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.720 it's a little late to make a career change because 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.400 your wife wants you to, because he had that thirty 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:29.120 some years prior to have come to that decision. Well, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.600 but there's also the point of like he was prime 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.480 minister for six years, right and then they lost. That 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.520 would have been a really great time if his wife 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.640 had been like not into the whole politician thing, that 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.560 she could have said, Okay, great, you've done it right, 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.760 you've kind of seen this thing through, you've led your 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.240 party for six years. You did a really good job. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.320 It's time to just take a step back. And then 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:55.599 that's when, like for me, that's when I would have 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.840 done it right, And that's when I think the logical 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.360 time for something like that is not two years after 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.000 you've become prime minister again in my mind, so I agree, 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.720 I don't think this theory is good. Yeah, it's if 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.400 this could have been a factor. I don't think it's 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.360 see the all encompassing theory, right, you know what I'm saying. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.240 It might have been a factor in his thinking. Maybe. Yeah. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.000 I think a lot of the stuff that is our theories, 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:18.680 not all of them, and a lot of them could 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.719 very easily have been simply contributing factors. Yeah, I think, Well, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:24.760 and he wasn't. He was in office for how long 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:34.480 to seventies six? Break? Well, he was thirty one years. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:36.720 That's a long time to do something that your wife 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.160 hates and to finally give in Exactly my point. Yeah, 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.160 I don't like. If I don't, I don't get away 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.360 with doing anything. I was just gonna say, if you 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:47.360 were doing something that your wife hated, would you get 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.199 thirty one years out of it or would you be like, okay, 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.280 I've done this for ten that was fun. Well, then 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.440 again I am still podcasting. So she had past, yeah, 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.280 you know, she she didn't even like ten Downing Street. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.760 they when they when he won against seventy four, they 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.839 didn't even move back into it because she really didn't 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:07.600 like it. She thought it was a crappy little apartment. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.079 So yeah, no ten Downing for her. Uh, let's get 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.600 to our next one here. And this is the reason. 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.000 Is the pressure of the whole thing. Reportedly at the 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.160 time he was drinking like during the day because of 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.440 his job was so stressful for him. Understandable. Yeah, and 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.800 his wife again, Mary said, this is the one interview 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.559 she gave said, quote, he'd had enough. There was a 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.679 seaman strike which he had just dealt with. He told 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.800 me that he could not deal with it with the 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.120 same level of energy and the same zest, and possibly 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.160 he began to feel that his memory was going unquote 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.400 that's what That's what his why, I said. Apparently just 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:45.680 wasn't as enthusiastic about it as he used to be. Go, figure, well, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.160 if we gotta we gotta jump back here second though, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.560 and say, look at what was going on in the 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.520 world at the time, both prior to and then during 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.760 the time that he was serving his second stint. I mean, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.920 we're looking at the late sixties. Things are getting kind 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:06.080 of dicey. The early seventies, things are starting to fall apart. 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.959 Economically for Britain, there's their stagflation going on, the unemployment 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.000 rate is rising. They've got obviously it was three or 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.880 four states of emergency were called in that four years, 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.920 which you know is just astronomical because it didn't happen 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.040 very often reduced work weeks, so people weren't making money. 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.200 I mean, like it was all kinds of social and 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.920 economic things that were just going wrong, left, right and center. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.640 The crisis. Yeah, especially in the mid seventies well, with 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.160 the rise of OPEC and the sudden shoot up in 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.520 oil prices that damaged a lot of Western economies. It 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.040 took us a long time to get out of that. 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.520 So it wasn't just Britain, but sure they were hard, 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.680 harder hit than st because we at least produced some oil. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:52.200 I mean, I guess, I guess they produced some from 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.920 the North Sea, but they're not the big well it 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.720 hadn't that hadn't really come online, So that was that 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.240 was the hard part of r C. Oil really didn't 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.360 come in until the very end of the seventies beginning 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.120 of the eighties. That was one of the things that 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.839 really helped Thatcher out is that she you know, there 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.160 was that economic boom just after she came in because 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.480 the wells started really producing. Well, let's here for oil wells. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:24.000 I guess, let's kill some more, stay for some cold. Uh. 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.200 But you can see how the pressure of being the 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.240 prime minister would just sort of wear on you. It's 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:30.480 pretty exciting and glamorous for a while and all that 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.280 power and everything, but after a while, it does it 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.080 probably does wear you down. And so the reason I 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.439 like this theory is that, uh, he didn't want to 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:42.240 admit when he was resigning. He didn't want to say that, well, hey, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:43.760 I'm just a big weeding and I can't take the 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.120 pressure anymore. You know, you're not gonna say that. You're 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:47.920 not gonna say, oh my god, I just can't take it. 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.319 So maybe that's why he said he didn't resign. He 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:54.160 wouldn't say why he resigned, you know. I mean, it's 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.040 a little early in the game to to bring this up, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.120 but I wonder about a lot of times when there's 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.720 the resignation, and it's a resignation in order to put 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.960 your favorite in the spotlight so that when the next 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.200 election comes up, they're the incumbent, and therefore they have 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.559 a better chance of getting elected. And it just suddenly 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.040 struck me as we're talking about it, like, wait, he 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.959 didn't do that. No wonder people are so confused by 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.120 the whole I'm out here, thanks a lot, see you later. Yeah. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:24.600 I don't think he had a preferred successor really? Uh yeah, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.240 so again, I mean Jesus, you know, Harold, you really 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.080 could have cleared a few things up and spare us 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.960 a lot of speculation. Yeah. So the pressure, that's another one. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.560 I think, you know, maybe maybe combined, combined with the 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:38.960 wife that was unhappy, you know, and everything else, maybe 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.800 decided to just screw it. What do we got next? Well, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.280 there's another theory, this is popular actually, which is Alzheimer's disease, 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.320 which is eventually what did kill him. Unfortunately, he died 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.480 in nineteen years after he resigned. H he was what 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.920 in his early eighties, way passed. Let me think, No, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.640 I think we're tired around like six, do I think? 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:02.760 You know? And so nineteen years later, I guess he's 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.720 around eight. Okay, yeah, close to it, late seventies early 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:07.320 I had it written down somewhere in my notes, and 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.280 I don't see it at all, so I evidently didn't 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:13.040 really write it down. Yeah, it's been speculated that Wilson 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.800 was already experiencing symptoms of it, and as he saw 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.240 that his memory was was going and he was just 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.880 kind of losing a little bit, it seems, but like 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.840 it would have been early. That's really early, because I 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:27.560 feel like Alzheimer's takes not so long to really it's 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.800 pretty rare that it takes more than I mean, typically 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.320 it's like eight to ten years after diagnosis, and and 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.640 so between the time when symptoms appeared you finally go 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.200 see a doctor and they make a diagnosis, it's usually 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:42.360 less than three years. So between the time now, between 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.560 the time that you experienced the first symptoms but you 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:47.720 don't realize exactly what it is, and by the time 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.760 you finally go to the doctor and get it diagnosed, 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.520 usually you know, less than three years has gone by. Typically. Yeah, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:16:02.080 but the early symptoms can be really subtle. And I 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.080 was reading some stuff about early onset that because there's 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.640 there's the two the two derivative or two types. There's 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.480 the early onset, which is anyone under sixty five, and 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.120 then just standard anyone over sixty five, And there was 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.600 a study of this family that's got the gene four. 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:26.000 They they're just genetically disposed to have it. And yeah, 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.680 but there's non changes that happen in the brain, and 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.800 so they've they've been tracking this this family, but they're 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.520 seeing the beginnings of some of those changes happen as 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.840 early as eighteen or twenty years of eight. Are we 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.920 talking like, no, like something that would be noticeable to 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.280 changes in the brain, not not not noticeable exhibiting symptoms, 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.720 but the the changes in the brain that then get 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.400 the ball rolling. So it's possible that we may not 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:00.000 know how to diagnose it. But people who are feeling 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.080 the very very beginnings of this, you know, the anxiety 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.960 and forgetful listen, things like that that's come in the 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.560 very early stages. I mean, I don't know that they 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:12.560 all they all occur at the same rate. In other words, 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.800 everybody experiences Alzheimer's at the same progression of symptoms. I 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.879 think that's accurate. But I think what Joe is saying 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.840 is that usually when people are starting to see the 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.960 first symptoms right by the time they've been experiencing those 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:29.720 symptoms for about three years, they go to the doctor 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.960 because I would. I mean, I think most reasonable human beings. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.520 Remember this is the seventies though, right, But I'm just 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.000 saying that typically, right when you start to exhibit symptoms 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.800 of that nature, you're going to start you're gonna go 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.960 to the doctor, or you're at least going to mention 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.360 to your doctor on your whatever exam that you do. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.480 You know, hey, I've been noticing I'm a little forgetful. 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:52.359 And if that's not a solid number, right, I mean, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.360 like three years, isn't like everybody gets diagnosed within their 0:17:55.440 --> 0:18:00.719 first I'm guessing that he probably had probably much more 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.320 intensive medical care than most of us, get being Probably 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.560 we probably saw a doctor a lot more often, was 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.320 checked out, so it was and I agree with you 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.320 that probably there was a lot of stuff, especially if 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.359 he was Prime Minister, like the early onset symptoms of 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.760 kind of anxiety and forgetfulness. Those are things that you 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:20.440 would kind of expect anyway, if you're super stressed out 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:24.720 and busy all the time. So there's certainly some wiggle 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.840 room there. But but for him to have, you know, 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.920 have Alzheimer's at that time and then survive for another 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:38.719 twenty years that's the unusual part. Statistically not so likely. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.200 I mean, it happens, as you say, statistically is one 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.080 thing what people, what we see people do sometimes is 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.720 dramatically different. Yeah, and I think that. Yeah, I think 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.520 so too. But I mean it could have also been 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.520 the beginnings of he may have had some early forms 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.600 of dementia that you know, and then it progressed into 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.880 I mean, I'm making a I said that, I'm by 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:04.760 no means versed and in exactly how all the symptoms work. 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.160 Do we know when he was actually diagnosed with Alzheimer's 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:10.920 I know, to be honest, I don't know that. I've 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.440 never seen it listed. Well, I mean that's the private thing. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.840 You don't have to yea, you don't have to say. 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.920 And then and this doctor, I feel like it was 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.320 in the early eighties for some reason, so about you know, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.880 less than a decade after he left. And that's that's 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:27.720 what I was projecting here, based on when he died. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.120 It was a diagnosis or actually onset around eighty two, 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.600 diagnosis around eighty five, somewhere around there. You know, statistically speaking, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.320 that's about when it should have happened, you know, so 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.320 so that that would explain why, you know if he's 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.960 if he's I've always been so sharp. I know everything. 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.720 I'm on top of it. I know everybody's name. Suddenly 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:48.720 I can't focus, I don't know anything, and I am 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:54.320 just so beat. I can't do this, and I sometimes 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.479 I wonder if that's a dedication to the job factor. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.399 I can't do this job like I think I should. Yeah, 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.360 and may he did say that his memory was kind 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.879 of going. Yeah, yeah, she did say that. But again 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.119 he was he was around sixty. That might just be 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:16.000 normal memory loss, did aging, I don't know, you tell us, Joe, 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:21.360 that's sixty. All the drink, but all the drinking probably 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.120 wasn't helping either. Yeah, definitely, Stress of course can cause 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.560 memory loss. Do we know how much he was actually drinking? 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:32.760 Not really now, see that's that's the problem. Yeah, you 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.359 know he might have in the middle of the day said, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:36.840 you know what, poor me, pour me a glass. I'm 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.240 going to have a glass with my lunch because they 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:41.080 need to calm down. And this was what was this 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.359 the seventies. Yeah, liquid lunch was a normal thing. It 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.480 was a lot more common back and really was Yeah, 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:53.440 I remember you remember, I know you're that old Yeah, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.560 I remember you got written up for it recently too. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:00.359 I was just bringing it back, reviving it. Well, I 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.760 know women couldn't work in the office, then it's fine 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:06.600 kind of doing part of it. It's fine, that's right. 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.080 The seventies. Oh, back to her. Back to the theory 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:17.280 though anyway, Alzheimer's right, I forgot what's my name? Yeah, 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:19.159 the pro part of this theory that I like, it 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.400 might explain why Wilson didn't say why he was resigning, 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.520 because he didn't want to tell the world about his disease, 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:29.320 which is kind of disease. Yeah, it's understandable, you know 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.639 what I mean. Yeah, they don't don't even need to 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.360 explain why. And Mary took care of him the whole time. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.680