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Speaker 1: Welcome to Invention, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Invention. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, and we're back with part three of our

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Speaker 1: discussion of the invention of photography. Now, last time, we

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Speaker 1: got up to the moment of invention, the debut of

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Speaker 1: the Daguero type of of course Louis Daguerre in Paris,

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Speaker 1: and the early paper based negative photo procedure of Henry

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Speaker 1: Fox Talbot in England, which was initially far less successful. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we spent a lot of time talking about the

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Speaker 1: early laborious methods of taking a photograph, but the startling

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Speaker 1: and just game changing results, uh that they gave us. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in all that discussion of de Guarat types,

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Speaker 1: I neglected to mention my Daguarat type boyfriend and what

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Speaker 1: is this? This is a I believe it was a

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Speaker 1: tumbler page and it was just a collection of like

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Speaker 1: handsome do dudes with their you know, their photo having

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Speaker 1: been taken with the Deguarat type. A lot of like

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Speaker 1: a really neat sideburns and whatnot. But it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a trend at least a few years ago. I

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Speaker 1: remember it making the rounds and people having a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun with it. I'm looking at it now. You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the things is nobody smiling in their deguaratype. Yes,

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Speaker 1: some guys look kind of smug, but it's not really

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Speaker 1: a smile, right, And there's an important reason for that,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get into in this episode. This is a

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Speaker 1: great blog now that I'm looking at it. Do you

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Speaker 1: have a favorite old school deguerotype or I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it's actually a deguaratype. The one I'm going to

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Speaker 1: bring up in an old school photograph doppelganger a favorite

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Speaker 1: one of those? Of course? I love the old Nicholas

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Speaker 1: Cage from the nineteenth century. Yeah, I think that that's

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Speaker 1: the main one that comes to mind. But because yeah,

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Speaker 1: you go back to enough photographic history, even though we

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Speaker 1: have very little of it really, I mean, can can

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Speaker 1: compare to the you know, the deeper history of of

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Speaker 1: the human species. But yeah, you can find these weird

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Speaker 1: doppelgangers where you're like, that looks like Stevie Sinny, especially

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Speaker 1: if I just kind of, you know, blur my eyes

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah. So, last time we covered this

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Speaker 1: transition from the resin based heliography method of Joseph Nissa fourneeps,

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Speaker 1: the French inventor and scientist and aristocrat to the big

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Speaker 1: breakthrough announced and described in eighteen thirty nine by Louis Dega,

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Speaker 1: the da Gara type method, which for a brief refresher

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Speaker 1: on how that worked. Remember it had many steps, so

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Speaker 1: that was sort of Dagar's breakthrough was the multi step

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Speaker 1: chemistry procedure um. So it involved sensitizing a silver coated

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Speaker 1: plate with iodine fumes, and this would produce a layer

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Speaker 1: of the light sensitive compound silver iodide. And then you'd

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Speaker 1: expose that plate inside a camera obscura. And then, and

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Speaker 1: this is the real genius step, you would take the

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Speaker 1: lightly exposed plate on which the image would still be

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Speaker 1: invisible to the naked eye. You couldn't see anything yet,

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Speaker 1: and you would develop that by exposing it to mercury fumes,

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Speaker 1: which would bring out the latent image on the plate

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Speaker 1: and create a sharp contrast. Uh And then finally you'd

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Speaker 1: wash off the remaining silver eyedide to prevent further darkening.

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Speaker 1: And originally this washing off step took place in in

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Speaker 1: hot salt water until the better solution of hyposulfite of

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Speaker 1: soda now known as sodium. Theosulfate was suggested by John Herschel. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think it's widely agreed that Digear's most original and

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Speaker 1: brilliant contribution to the invention of photography was this chemical

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Speaker 1: development stage. Of course, the development was so useful because

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Speaker 1: it greatly cut down on exposure times, which before had

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Speaker 1: been very long. Before the development stage, you might have

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Speaker 1: to expose a plate for hours at a time, like

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Speaker 1: maybe seven hours or twelve hours before the image would

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Speaker 1: really come through on it. You only had to get

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Speaker 1: a very faint initial exposure of maybe ten to fifteen

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Speaker 1: minutes before you could develop it with the mercury fumes,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like a lot to us. But but like

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Speaker 1: you said, it was a huge improvement over hours of

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Speaker 1: exposure time. Yeah, gigantic difference back then. I mean that

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Speaker 1: it made it suddenly realistic to photograph landscapes. So if

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Speaker 1: you had to expose a plate for hours on a landscape,

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Speaker 1: all the shadows would be messed up, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: shadows are such an important part of our our view

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Speaker 1: of the natural world. If the shadows keep shifting over

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Speaker 1: the many hours of exposure, nothing's going to look right.

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Speaker 1: Um Now. Also in the last episode, we talked about

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Speaker 1: the English polymath, scientist, politician and inventor Henry Fox Talbot,

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Speaker 1: who had independently invented a kind of different method of

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Speaker 1: photography years earlier in England. But unfortunately, even though he

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Speaker 1: invented it first, he never got around to publishing his

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Speaker 1: findings until after de Gara announced his invention in France

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Speaker 1: and was cemented in the minds of most people as

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Speaker 1: the inventor of photography. Henry Fox Talbot's original method was different.

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Speaker 1: It used paper instead of these sensitized metal plates. He

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Speaker 1: sensitized the paper to light by coating it in silver chloride,

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Speaker 1: and then he would expose it in a camera for

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Speaker 1: a longer period than Diga's final method, and then wash

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Speaker 1: it off afterwards to stop the exposure. Now, Talbot actually

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Speaker 1: had a few different methods over time. After Dager's method

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Speaker 1: was announced in eighteen thirty nine, Talbot eventually went on

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Speaker 1: to create and patent a different process known as the

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Speaker 1: Calo type, which also made use of a different chemical

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Speaker 1: form of Dagas concept of development right to shorten the

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Speaker 1: exposure time needed in the camera. And while Dagas method

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Speaker 1: produced these kind of sharp, one of a kind positive,

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Speaker 1: shiny reflective images on metal plates. Talbot's method produced kind

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Speaker 1: of fuzzy, soft, but highly replicable, copyable negative images on paper.

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Speaker 1: So these are the two main things you've got by

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Speaker 1: eighteen forty and again we just have to drive home

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Speaker 1: how photography was this collision of advancements in optics, chemistry,

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Speaker 1: and the r it's all of it coming together, uh,

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Speaker 1: just the right time, with just the right individuals. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things we talked about in the

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Speaker 1: last episode is how surprising it is that this, this

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Speaker 1: first big breakthrough comes from Louis de Guerre, who was

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Speaker 1: not a scientist. He was not he was not trained

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Speaker 1: in chemistry. Digerre was a painter. He was an artist.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was clearly a very clever and energetic

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Speaker 1: kind of go getter, but he he was not trained

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Speaker 1: in chemistry. He didn't have a lot of scientific knowledge.

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Speaker 1: He was kind of just bumbling around in the dark

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Speaker 1: in a way, at least at first. And one of

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Speaker 1: the funny things about this is we know a lot

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Speaker 1: about what Henry Fox Talbot was doing because he usually

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Speaker 1: took extensive notes and journals about his ideas and his

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Speaker 1: projects de Garrett generally did not. So remember last time

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Speaker 1: we talked about how Louis de Guerre had this brief

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Speaker 1: partnership with with niece four Niepps. How did Gare got

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Speaker 1: from Niepps's heliography which used this resin and wasn't really

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Speaker 1: like the ultimate process of the Daguero type to the

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Speaker 1: Daguero type. What happened in those years in between is

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Speaker 1: not fully known. We don't have accurate, reliable information about

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Speaker 1: what Degres postings, partnership experiments were, or like what roadmap

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Speaker 1: of discoveries led to his inventions, So there's kind of

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Speaker 1: a mystery there. There are stories that were reported later.

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Speaker 1: One common example of one of these stories is the

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Speaker 1: story about Degres magic cabinet. Have you ever heard about this?

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Speaker 1: Uh No, but it already sounds uh perhaps a little

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Speaker 1: dramatic size you know very well could be apocryphal. But

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Speaker 1: that's always the tendency, right, Like do you lay out

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Speaker 1: the various steps and and uh minor revelations that lead

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Speaker 1: to some sort of an invention, or do you come

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Speaker 1: up with something uh more sexy like I saw it

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Speaker 1: in a dream, you know? Or do you tell a

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Speaker 1: good story? Yeah, and so The Magic Cabinet is one

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Speaker 1: of these good stories that might not be true. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: it was about how he discovered the developing process, his

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Speaker 1: most his most important key insight on photography the mercury

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Speaker 1: fumes to bring out the latent image from a short exposure. Supposedly,

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Speaker 1: what happened is that Degare had under exposed a plate

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Speaker 1: and then he put it inside a cabinet that he

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Speaker 1: was storing some chemicals in, and then came back later

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Speaker 1: and found that the under exposed plate had had an

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Speaker 1: image brought out in it, and it was like, WHOA,

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Speaker 1: what's going on here? And he realized it must have

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Speaker 1: been exposure to one of the chemicals in the cabinet.

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Speaker 1: So he just started removing one chemical at a time

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Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what it was, until eventually

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Speaker 1: he had removed everything from the cabinet and the cabinet

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Speaker 1: was still doing this. It was still bringing out the

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Speaker 1: image in under exposed plates, until he discovered that some

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Speaker 1: mercury had been spilled inside the cabinet and it was

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Speaker 1: this spill that was that was creating bringing the image out. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, that seems like a plausible story, and even

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Speaker 1: if it didn't quite happen like that. It is a

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Speaker 1: it is a nice way of describing, you know, how

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Speaker 1: he might have discovered it, you know, like it's this

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Speaker 1: nice story shaped explanation. Yes. And I will say, for

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Speaker 1: all of Dager's apparently good qualities, he he does not

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Speaker 1: strike me, having read a good bit about his life now,

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Speaker 1: as someone who would be above making up a story

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Speaker 1: about how things came about. Because he was a salesman,

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Speaker 1: you know, businessman. A lot of his his accomplishments came from,

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Speaker 1: you know, as we said in the last episode, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a great networker, being karas mad at, being able

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Speaker 1: to bring people together and get them behind his vision. Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So when d Get revealed his method publicly, he actually

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Speaker 1: he did not take out a patent on the process

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Speaker 1: anywhere except in England, or I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: actually held it. I think a different guy held this patent.

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Speaker 1: But there was a patent on the daguerrotype process in England,

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Speaker 1: but only in England. Uh And instead Dagara was given

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Speaker 1: a pension by the French government and the Daguara type

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Speaker 1: method was sort of presented as a free gift to

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Speaker 1: the world from France. Except guests to England. Henry Fox Talbot,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, he tried to patent his callow

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Speaker 1: type process, though he faced enormous resistance and public scorn.

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Speaker 1: And it is amazing, by the way, to read sections

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Speaker 1: from articles in publications like The Economist viciously attacking the

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Speaker 1: very concept of patents as quote injurious to the progress

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Speaker 1: of production and to the common weelfare and thus illegitimate

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Speaker 1: in the light of the principle of property rights. Can

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Speaker 1: you imagine that? Well, yeah, it certainly makes sense. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you still see various discussions these days about things that

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Speaker 1: are being patent certainly in the you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: the genetic sciences. Oh yeah, So you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: too much of elite to imagine people getting upset about

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Speaker 1: the the idea of patenting photography, especially in retrospect, seeing

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Speaker 1: like what effects photography had. I'm not surprised in that.

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Speaker 1: It's not that I don't think it's a legitimate ethical

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Speaker 1: debate to be had. I'm is kind of surprised we'd

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Speaker 1: see this coming from The Economist in the eighteen forties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it also seems a little unfair that Talbot is the

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Speaker 1: one who's who who gets it here, you know, because

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Speaker 1: he's he's kind of coming up just a little behind

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Speaker 1: Deger at every turn. Yeah, and uh So, in those

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Speaker 1: first few decades, the world of photography was absolutely dominated

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Speaker 1: by the daguerotype, and and Talbot really seems to have

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Speaker 1: gotten the short end of the stick, even though his

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Speaker 1: inside of producing negatives that could be easily copied would

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Speaker 1: later prove hugely important to photography as as you might guess.

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Speaker 1: But any way, pretty much immediately after it was publicly

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Speaker 1: explained and demonstrated, the dagaratype became enormously popular, and people

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Speaker 1: all over we're trying it out. Initial reception of the

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Speaker 1: method was was mostly extremely positive, and in the last

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Speaker 1: episode we discussed a few examples of this, like the

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Speaker 1: absolutely glowing reception uh the daguerotype got from Edgar Allan

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Speaker 1: Poe when he described its quality as quote truth itself

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Speaker 1: in the suprem nous of it perfection. One of the

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Speaker 1: types of reviews that I like less I feel kind

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Speaker 1: of icky about, but I see pretty often as people

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Speaker 1: who are repeatedly, uh negatively comparing traditional artistic methods to

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Speaker 1: the daguero type. Like there's this example Polish in the

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Speaker 1: Gazette de France in UH in its announcement about the

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Speaker 1: Daguero type in eighteen thirty nine, quote, you will see

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Speaker 1: how far from the truth of the Daguero type are

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Speaker 1: your pencils and brushes. That's right, artists for lunatics. Now

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a line that will be spoken by

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Speaker 1: like a villain in a video game. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: already been translated poorly. Once you will see how weak

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Speaker 1: are your brushes. But I can I can imagine there

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Speaker 1: might be you know, the kind of tension, right, It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, my goodness, but the photos exist. Now,

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Speaker 1: is this going to impact my career as a painter? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we can. We always see that kind of

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Speaker 1: anxiety and perhaps uh, you know, overestimation of of what

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Speaker 1: a new technology can do exactly. And and I think

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Speaker 1: in some ways that reaction was sort of reasonable, even

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Speaker 1: though you know, we view painting and photography as different things.

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Speaker 1: Obviously some artists would have viewed photography not just as

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Speaker 1: a new art form, but as a substitute for realist

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Speaker 1: painting or a general replacement for traditional forms of art.

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Speaker 1: I want to mention the story that's related in one

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Speaker 1: of my main sources on these episodes. A book by

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Speaker 1: Helen Rappaport and Roger Watson called Capturing the Light The

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Speaker 1: Birth of Photography, A True Story of Genius and Rivalry,

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Speaker 1: which is a great book that goes into detail in

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Speaker 1: the lives of Louis de Guerre and Henry Fox Talbot especially,

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Speaker 1: but there's a section where it mentions this famous story.

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Speaker 1: This only reported many years after the fact, so again

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Speaker 1: possibly untrue, kind of like Degare's own story about where

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Speaker 1: the idea of the mercury fumes came from. But this

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Speaker 1: is a story that the realist painter Paul Delaroche, who

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Speaker 1: was known for realistic looking depictions of historical scenes such

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Speaker 1: as the execution of Lady Jane Gray, you might have

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Speaker 1: seen that painting before. Uh that he saw a daguerotype

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Speaker 1: for the first time and commented, quote from today, painting

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Speaker 1: is dead. So he may not have actually said this,

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Speaker 1: but it no doubt reflects like an anxiety that some

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Speaker 1: in the art world must have felt. And remember, today

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Speaker 1: we appreciate photography and painting as a as like separate

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Speaker 1: art forms, they each have their own uses. But before photography,

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Speaker 1: painting wasn't just a fine art. It also served practical

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Speaker 1: purposes that we now mostly leave up entirely to photography,

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Speaker 1: such as family portraiture. Like, while photography doesn't supersede all

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Speaker 1: forms of painting, there were clearly some cases where it

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Speaker 1: did simply automate work that would once have been done

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Speaker 1: by a human painter. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. How

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Speaker 1: like that the one area that we were one of

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Speaker 1: the few areas were able to sort of keep photography

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Speaker 1: out of it is think of the courtroom in some

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Speaker 1: cases where you have where you have the courtroom sketch

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Speaker 1: still being an important part of the journalist effort there.

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Speaker 1: That's a funny inversion because I mean one of the

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Speaker 1: earliest uses of photography that will discuss later on as

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Speaker 1: like it's like a form of objective evidence to use

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Speaker 1: in court. But yeah, there are prohibitions in some cases

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Speaker 1: of allowing cameras into the courtrooms. And so now you

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Speaker 1: get to see, like what does it look like when

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Speaker 1: you draw a picture of Paul Manifort. Yeah, and some

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Speaker 1: of these pictures are still rather amusing in the ambiguity

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Speaker 1: that is sometimes possible with just a what is you know,

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Speaker 1: probably a rushed sketch of of of happenings in a courtroom. Now,

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Speaker 1: apart from the anxiety of painters and artists, there also

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Speaker 1: uh were a few at least to question the morality

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Speaker 1: or propriety of photography as a medium. And there was

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Speaker 1: a really interesting article that was quoted in in Watson

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Speaker 1: and Rapp reports book from a German publication called The

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Speaker 1: Leipziger Stattenzeiger, and it goes a little something like this quote.

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Speaker 1: The wi to capture evanescent reflections is not only impossible,

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Speaker 1: as has been shown by thorough German investigation, but the

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Speaker 1: mere desire alone, the will to do so is blasphemy. Blasphemy.

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Speaker 1: God created man in his own image, and no man

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Speaker 1: made machine may fix the image of God. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible that God should have abandoned his eternal principles and

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Speaker 1: allowed a Frenchman in Paris to give to the world

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Speaker 1: an invention of the devil, the idea of the revolution fraternity,

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Speaker 1: and Napoleon's ambition to turn Europe into one realm. All

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Speaker 1: these crazy ideas, Monsieur de gear now claims to surpass

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Speaker 1: because he wants to outdo the creator of the world.

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Speaker 1: If this thing were at all possible, then something similar

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Speaker 1: would have been done a long time ago in antiquity

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Speaker 1: by men like Archimedes or Moses. But if these wise

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Speaker 1: men knew nothing of mirror pictures made permanent, then one

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Speaker 1: can straightaway call the Frenchman to gear who boasts of

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Speaker 1: such unheard of things, the fool of fools. Well that's

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Speaker 1: the that's a kind of a confusing review. Yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: he can't possibly do it, and since he's doing it,

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Speaker 1: it's very bad. Wow. Uh so that that is definitely

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Speaker 1: a negative review for um, the Garrett type. Well, I

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Speaker 1: think it's interesting because this does not seem to be

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Speaker 1: a common reaction to it. It seems, by and large

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Speaker 1: people were very excited by it. But it does reflect

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Speaker 1: the general impression of the magnitude of photography as an invention. Right.

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Speaker 1: It seems absurd now that people would think of photography

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Speaker 1: as a blasphemy, but I think it's possible back then

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Speaker 1: for people to think this way because this was such

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Speaker 1: a strange and new and unheard of thing. And yet

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Speaker 1: at the at the same time, like like I'm trying

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Speaker 1: really zoning in on no man made machine may fix

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Speaker 1: the image of God. Now, obviously people were and again

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Speaker 1: that saying this because the idea that man is made

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Speaker 1: and uh in the likeness of God and all that.

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Speaker 1: But uh so, just merely fixing the image of God

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Speaker 1: can't be the thing he's upset about because because painting

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Speaker 1: did that. It's the idea that it's a machine. Is

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Speaker 1: that this idea that that we have made a thing

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Speaker 1: that does the thing? Is this like a Butlerian Jihad

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Speaker 1: kind of situation? Oh yeah, you shall not make an

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Speaker 1: image in the what make a machine? And the likeness

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Speaker 1: of human human mind? Yeah? Yeah, it reminds me a

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Speaker 1: lot of that. Well, I don't know. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: is a thing that's very often mentioned by people writing

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Speaker 1: about photography at the time, in the eighteen forties and

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifties, is there there's all this mention of the sun.

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Speaker 1: I think now because we often take photos in rooms

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Speaker 1: with artificial light, Like our cameras are more sensitive, they

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Speaker 1: can take dim photos. We have cameras with cameras with flashes,

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Speaker 1: we have you know, brighter artificial lights. Back then, there

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Speaker 1: was all all of this talk about how when you

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Speaker 1: take a photo, it's heliography, right, the sun is drawing

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Speaker 1: your pictures for you. It's all about sunlight because that

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Speaker 1: was the only light that was generally bright enough to

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Speaker 1: actually create a photo exposure. So I think maybe this

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Speaker 1: association with the sun is one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: somebody might have a more religious reaction to it, right

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Speaker 1: that that that it's like the sun, the source of all,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the symbol of God's glory shining down

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Speaker 1: on all things bright and beautiful, all things great and small.

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Speaker 1: Now it's making images for you, and this is a

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Speaker 1: perversion of the light that God has given to us,

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Speaker 1: fixed it in darkness. Yeah, but like I said, I

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Speaker 1: do not get any indication that this was like a

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Speaker 1: major opinion. It might have been popular in Germany. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, just because they didn't like Frenchmen that that

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Speaker 1: didn't like the fact that the dgear that this was

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Speaker 1: like something that France was bragging about. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: here's our free gift to the world, and and some

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Speaker 1: Frenchman really did take take on that idea right of

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Speaker 1: of giving it to the world, of sharing photography with

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, overall, people loved the Daguero type and

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Speaker 1: it gave way to a sort of Daguerreotype craze in

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Speaker 1: which amage you're in professional photographers by the hundreds embarked

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Speaker 1: on all kinds of projects of documenting things. One example

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Speaker 1: in the early days is this French optician named Noel

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Speaker 1: Paymal lara Bor, and he had the idea to equip

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Speaker 1: a team of traveling de guerra typists to go around

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Speaker 1: the world and capture images of foreign landscapes and sites

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Speaker 1: of interest, and then then to send the images back

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Speaker 1: to Paris so that people could see these places like

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Speaker 1: Niagara Falls, like the Great Mosque of Algiers, or like

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Speaker 1: the Acropolis, see them in full realism for the first time.

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Speaker 1: Lara Bor wanted to publish them in a book, which

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Speaker 1: he did in eighteen forty one called Excurgion dig de

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Speaker 1: guerrienes da guariens. I think, except there's a problem, because

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Speaker 1: remember what's true about the daguerrotype. The Daguera type is

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Speaker 1: an opaque, one of a kind print on a metal plate.

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Speaker 1: It can't be copied directly, and at the time certainly

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Speaker 1: it couldn't be printed in a book. So unfortunately, the

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Speaker 1: best he could do was to have the daguerrotypes from

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Speaker 1: these locations redrawn by hand as engravings so they could

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Speaker 1: be printed in the book, which is. I mean, on

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Speaker 1: one hand, there there actually was a great level of

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Speaker 1: realism in these engravings and illustrations, since the engravings were

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Speaker 1: copied from real photographs. But they weren't the photographs themselves.

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Speaker 1: A kind of bizarre irony. The first like big book

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Speaker 1: of photographs wasn't it wasn't photographs illustrations. All right, Well,

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Speaker 1: on that note, let's take a quick break. When we

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Speaker 1: come back, we will continue to discuss the de Guara

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Speaker 1: type craze and other developments in early photography. Alright, we're

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Speaker 1: back now. Remember the Dagara type was revealed in eighteen

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Speaker 1: thirty nine, sort of announced I think in January, and

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Speaker 1: then he really described his process publicly in August, and

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Speaker 1: by December eighteen thirty nine there were already jokes about

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Speaker 1: how trendy this new invention of photography had become. One

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Speaker 1: really great one is a lithograph by the artist Theodore

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Speaker 1: Morrissette called La ladgera type of many. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the French version. I think it means degera type of mania. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it is this manic, hieronymous, bosh like hell of

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Speaker 1: people swarming all around with camera boxes and photographing everything.

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Speaker 1: There's even a camera hanging from a hot air balloon,

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Speaker 1: apparently anticipating like spy planes. Uh. My favorite detail is

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Speaker 1: up in the upper right of the image, which appears

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Speaker 1: to be some kind of a cult ritual in which

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Speaker 1: pagan revelers are dancing in a circle lasciviously around a

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Speaker 1: steaming vat of mercury. Remember the mercury fumes where the

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Speaker 1: where the chemical insight used to develop the quick exposed print. Yeah,

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00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: this is amusing because it also reminds me of our

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Speaker 1: reaction to various other bits of technology. In fact, often

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Speaker 1: photographic technology. Uh, like, for instance, selfie sticks come to mind.

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Speaker 1: You can well imagine the same illustration Asian popping up

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Speaker 1: in uh contemporary news paper to criticize the widespread juice

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Speaker 1: of selfie sticks or the or a Pokemon phone game

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Speaker 1: or whatever kind of handheld technological craze is sweeping the nation. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know who hated selfies was the French poet Charles Baudelaire. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: obviously they didn't have selfies then, but the equivalent. So

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Speaker 1: I would like to talk a bit about portraits of people,

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Speaker 1: because this is one of the most important early uses

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Speaker 1: of photography. But to quote Bodelaire writing in eighteen fifty

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Speaker 1: nine about the early days of photography, Get this, A

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Speaker 1: vengeful God has given ear to the prayers of this

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00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: multitude to gear was his messiah. From that moment, our

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Speaker 1: squalid society rushed narcissus to a man to gaze at

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Speaker 1: his trivial image on a scrap of metal. A madness

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Speaker 1: and extraordinary fanaticism took possession of all these new sun worshippers.

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Speaker 1: There's the sun again. But also so he's being a jerk.

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Speaker 1: He's being like the grump who's mad about selfie sticks.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time he's not wrong, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: once people could take photos, what's the one thing people

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Speaker 1: would really most want photos of? Well, themselves, right and

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Speaker 1: in a less narcissistic vein, of their families and loved ones.

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Speaker 1: But obviously there was a lot of demand for people

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Speaker 1: to have photos of themselves and people they knew. And

427
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,959
Speaker 1: this is a far more affordable option, even at this

428
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: level of photography, compared to getting say a talented painter,

429
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: hiring a painter to to create your likeness on on

430
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: a canvas. That's absolutely true. Photography was an egalitarian innovation.

431
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Painted portraiture was very expensive. Only the rich could afford it,

432
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: but even regular people could save up to pay a

433
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: de Garat typist for a portrait and individual portrait or

434
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: a family portrait. This suddenly put realistic imagery of people

435
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: within the pocketbook reach of normal people. And it was

436
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: also clear early on the lot of the commerce full

437
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: potential for the new art and technology of photography would

438
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: be in portraits of people. That's what people want to

439
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: pay money for, and so obviously people wanted to start,

440
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: you know, de Garat type portraiture businesses. But there's a problem.

441
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: Portraits were a very, very difficult proposition for the earliest

442
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: photography methods because exposure times were still too long too

443
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: sharply capture live subjects. When Degar revealed his method, he'd

444
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: gotten the exposure through through the chemical development. He'd gotten

445
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: exposure down from hours to minutes, but even the minutes

446
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: were really hard. It's hard to hold a pose without

447
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: moving at all for ten or fifteen minutes, right. You

448
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: might end up moving somehow, changing your facial expression, and

449
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: that's going to create blurry nous, which is going to

450
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: lessen the value of the photo, which is an impediment

451
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: to commercial success. And in fact, when I was reading

452
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: about this, I started to wonder if the you know,

453
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: eighteen forties exposure times of around ten or fifteen minutes

454
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: are an explanation for why people in old photos are

455
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: so rarely smiling. Oh yeah, because I mean, I think

456
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: a lot of us can can look at this, even

457
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: our own family histories, dig up these old photos and

458
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of like pain godish looking humans. You know, um,

459
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: they just got bad news, right, And and of course

460
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: one of the things is a lot of times we're

461
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: looking at pictures from rougher time, so it's easy to

462
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: just fall in line with thinking, oh, well, you know

463
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: it was it was tough back then. You know, this

464
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: is this photo was taken perhaps at a funeral um.

465
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: But no, it's not. I mean, people in the past

466
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: were happy. There were times that they smiled, but but

467
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: it was just not very often in photos. And I

468
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: think one reason for this is that try to hold

469
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: a smile for fifteen minutes. Oh yeah, it's certainly anything

470
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: approaching a natural looking smile. Now, this would only apply

471
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: to like the earlier photos that had the longer exposure

472
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: times as as time went on, as the years went on,

473
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: exposure times got shorter and shorter, and we'll talk about

474
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: how in a minute, but it's really hard to hold

475
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: a smile for even just five minutes, right, And apparently

476
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: I'm not the first person to wonder about this. I

477
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: was looking this up and I found a really great

478
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen piece in Vox by Phil Edwards about why

479
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: people didn't smile in old photos, and there are several explanations.

480
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: The first point we should note is that some people

481
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: actually did smile in old photos, just not as many

482
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: as we're used to today now in our culture, when

483
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: you take a picture, you smile, right, This was just

484
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: not nearly as common. But I found you know, there's

485
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: one great example. Uh that's kind of hard to believe.

486
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: It was taken in nineteen o four, but it was

487
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: taken in nineteen o four in China by a photographer

488
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 1: and anthropologist named Berthold Lawfer, and it looks like it

489
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: was taken last year. It does. It's I mean, for

490
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: one thing, it's it's just a high quality. But a

491
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: lot of it too, is the fact that the the

492
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: individual in the photo is smiling. There is there's emotion

493
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 1: beaming through their face and you're just you're just not

494
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: used to seeing that in pictures from nineteen o four.

495
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: And and I think also, you know, you mentioned, you know,

496
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: to Gara types in this effort to like document other

497
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: places and other people's uh and so you know, you

498
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: give rise to all this anthropological photography, you know, which

499
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: I think on one level, you know, there's this noble

500
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: effort to document and understand other other people. But at

501
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: the at the same time, if you can't get them

502
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: to smile, if they if you're having to depend on

503
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: these long exposures and you're getting like a grim dour expression,

504
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: like if if most photographic proof of the human species

505
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: is is like a grim faced person who's ready for this,

506
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: this long exposure to be done with. Like you're not

507
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: getting a true sense of of the people, You're not

508
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: You're missing out on a vital aspect of the human condition. Yeah,

509
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: and I think that's one reason we're seeing here. And

510
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: now this photo was taken later when exposure times were shorter.

511
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: Uh So, so the exposure time isn't nearly as much

512
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: an issue here, but uh this this was an anthropologist

513
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: who was trying to document life, who wasn't like you

514
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: know it wasn't like this is the portrait of this

515
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: man in the photo who that will be his portrait

516
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: that hangs in his house forever. He's trying to show

517
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: what life was like. And in life, a lot of

518
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: times people smile because they're happy. This guy's got He's

519
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: like a guy sitting there at a table with a

520
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: bowl of rice and he looks really excited. But anyway,

521
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: even though some people did smile in old photos, if

522
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: you see a photo from the US or Europe from

523
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, there's a very good chance that the

524
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: subjects are not smiling. And yes, if it's a photo

525
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: from those early years of photography, you know one of

526
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: the eighteen forties Dagara types say, a good reason why

527
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: nobody is smiling is probably exactly what we've been discussing.

528
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: You can't hold a smile as long as they had

529
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: to expose the plate. But there are some interesting other

530
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: explanations mentioned in that Phil Edwards piece. One was just

531
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: the idea that early photography was art and it was

532
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: seen as sort of a new version of painting, and

533
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: in painted portraits generally people didn't smile because that was

534
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: the artistic style, right. So, and as we discussed I

535
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: think the first photo episode. Uh, the photographic technology like

536
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: picks up where painting left off, so the the existing

537
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: styles would carry over. And then I'm also imagining that

538
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: if there if there was some aspect of portraiture style

539
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: that was due to the limitations of the technology, such

540
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: as disposure times, like that would either uh you know,

541
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: it would either further ingrain the standards or it would

542
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: uh it would it would make this be the standard

543
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: of the photograph, you know, like you would establish conventions

544
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: even if it wasn't necessarily still necessitated by the technology. Yeah,

545
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: because otherwise the photographer shows up, Hey there's a new camera.

546
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: Now everybody can smile. You might be like, well, why

547
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: would I smile? That's just not done. We didn't used

548
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: to smile and photographs, Why am I'm not going to

549
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: be the dummy to start doing it exactly. Yeah. Another

550
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 1: point made in this Edwards piece that's interesting is that,

551
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, early photos are not the same as our photos.

552
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: Our photos are often just ephemeral records capturing individual moments,

553
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: and we understand them to be about moments. They're about

554
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: what was going on in this one second and how

555
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 1: we were feeling then and a lot of times in

556
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: that vain people want to be smiling to show their

557
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: having a good time. But photos back then weren't like that.

558
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: They were sort of precious and immortal records of people

559
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 1: as people, not not of moments as moments, right. And

560
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: and also they were private, which is something that I

561
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: think is easy to forget with with photographs today. Now,

562
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: obviously there's still a lot of private photography. Not everybody is,

563
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, is taking their their latest family photos and

564
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: uh and plastering them all over the world, but a

565
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: lot of people are. I mean, that's become what we

566
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: do with photos. A lot of the photographs we take,

567
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: we're taking to share, at least with a select audience

568
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: on social media, or to you know, put on a resume,

569
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: to put on our online and resume or what have you. Yeah, exactly.

570
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: In in contrast, I think these old photos, when people

571
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: were first getting photo portraits made in the nineteenth century,

572
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: the photo was interpreted as something like a painted port portrait.

573
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: It was kind of a serious artifact representing your immortal character.

574
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: I think the difference between a photo today and a

575
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: photo of the eighteen fifties was kind of the difference

576
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: between a tweet and a eulogy, and to take that

577
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: to extremes. I mean, in Victorian culture, it was a

578
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: relatively common practice to photograph the dead and dead members

579
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: of your family as a record of a person. Somebody

580
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: in your family would die and you the only photo

581
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: of them you might have might be of them as

582
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: a corpse. Yeah. I think a lot of us out there,

583
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: if we look through like our famili's photographic history goo

584
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: will sometimes encounter those those photos of say a dead child. Yeah,

585
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: it's very strange to us today, but it's another indication

586
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: of how differently they thought about photography back then. Uh.

587
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: And just to to cement this idea of like potograph

588
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: being a serious thing that was about serious values and

589
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: not a place for smiling. Uh. There is even a

590
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: comment from Mark Twain, who you know, Mark Twain wasn't

591
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: like a person without a sense of humor. He wrote

592
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: all kinds of funny stuff, but he said at one

593
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: point quote, I think a photograph is a most important document,

594
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: and there is nothing more damning to go down to

595
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: posterity than a silly, foolish smile caught unfixed forever. Well,

596
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: that's another thing to think about it with these two. Right,

597
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: Like nowadays, with a photo shoot, you can you can

598
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: you know, you get like a hundred or more images, right,

599
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: and then you can you can then decide which ones

600
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: have an acceptable smile, which ones have that magical smile

601
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: that feels right and also doesn't make you look too silly.

602
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: You can pinpoint the photo that makes you look the

603
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: way you want to look. Uh. And then of course

604
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: there's you know, post processes as well. But uh, yeah,

605
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: I can see where you might say, like, why would

606
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: I risk a smile. I'll just stick with serious because

607
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: I know that I can probably get that. That's a

608
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: good point. Yeah. I mean, I'm somebody who's not good

609
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: at smiling in photos. When people take pictures of me

610
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: and I smile, I often see it and I'm like, oh,

611
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: what was that? You know, I look like I'm like

612
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: chewing on a spider or something. I don't know. I

613
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: I can sympathize. And then finally, one last point that

614
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: Edwards makes in that article is that it appears that

615
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: in Europe and America during the Victorian and Edwardian periods,

616
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: some people just generally didn't think highly of smiling, Like

617
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: they thought smiling was a sign of stupidity. So cultural

618
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: norms just coming into play again. Right, But back to

619
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: the long exposure times of the earliest portraits. Watson and

620
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Rapp report in their book have an excellent chapter about

621
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: early portraits, and one of the things that they have

622
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: in there is an amazing quote of a firsthand description

623
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: of what it was like to pose for a Daguera

624
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: type by a Mr. Chittenden of Boston. We'll see how

625
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: you like this one, Robert quote. The operators rolled out

626
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: what looked like an overgrown barber's chair with a ballot

627
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: box attachment on a staff in front of it. I

628
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: was seated in the chair and his briery and arms

629
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 1: seized me by the wrists, ankles, waist and shoulders. There

630
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: was an iron bar which served as an elongation of

631
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: the spine, with a crossbar in which the head rested,

632
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: which held my head and neck as in a vice. Then,

633
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: when I felt like a martyr in the embrace of

634
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: the Nuremberg Maiden, which the some of the iron Maiden

635
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: there um, I was told to assume my best Sunday expression,

636
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: to fix my eyes on the first letter of the

637
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: sign of a beer saloon opposite, and not to move

638
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: or wink on pain of spoiling the exposure. So it

639
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: sounds like you have to climb into a torture device

640
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: in order to be held still for this photo. Well

641
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: you know, but but still today, if you get your

642
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: photo taken by someone who knows what they're doing, you

643
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: may be asked to for imposes that otherwise feel unnatural.

644
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: You know. But it's uh, it's it's it's the thing

645
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: about a photograph, of posing for a photograph is not

646
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: necessarily a natural act, you know, it is it is

647
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: about the finished product. And so yeah, you might have

648
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: to roll your shoulders in a way that you normally

649
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't or roll you know, position your your chin in

650
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: a way that you normally wouldn't even think about. And

651
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: and you do see people still grive about getting their

652
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: photo taken with this degree of of disdain. Yeah, well,

653
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 1: I mean, one of one of the funny things you're

654
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: you're pointing out there is like how you have to

655
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: sometimes act unnatural to look natural. And this was also

656
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: true in scenes, in bigger scenes, not just individual portraits,

657
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: but like there are stories from the days of early

658
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: de Guero types and crowd scenes and parties where guests

659
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: would sometimes be prepared in advance that at some point

660
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: they would be asked to freeze to create a quote

661
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: general immobility for about seven minutes so that a decent

662
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: photo of the room could be taken. Obviously, in a

663
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: crowd scene, like, they're going to be details that are

664
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: a little less crucial because somebody might move and they'll

665
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: just be a blurry part of the photo. But just yeah,

666
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: try to imagine that. You're, like you're at a party

667
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: and they want to get a sure what the party

668
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: looked like. So at some point they're just going to

669
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: ask everybody to hold still while they expose it to guaratype. Yeah,

670
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: everything that might be awkward in modern photography, and and

671
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: you know covering an event, uh is going to be

672
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: just a little bit more awkward with the limited technology. Yeah,

673
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: because it sounds like a lot like a grip and grin,

674
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, which is still a standard of any time

675
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: like a new business opens or uh, you know, any

676
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: kind of business e thing happens and it needs to

677
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 1: be documented. You're gonna get that that nice staged uh

678
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: and faked image of like two people shaking hands or

679
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: presenting some sort of document that sort of thing. Can

680
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: I tell you. I actually realized I have a sort

681
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: of a prejudice against people who are good at posing

682
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: for photos. There's something about it when people are just

683
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: really good. It's suddenly assuming the pose and doing the face,

684
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: and they look perfectly photogenic and can do it time

685
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: after time. I find that distrustful. Wait, isn't distrustful the

686
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: right word. I find that trustworthy untrustworthy. Well, I don't

687
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: know about that. I mean, most of it is just

688
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 1: obeying the photographer, and and and I guess it helps

689
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: if the photographer is good at communicating what they want

690
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: you to do with your body. You know, how to

691
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: roll your shoulders or your head, your chin, etcetera. Well,

692
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: that's true, even if it doesn't feel right, listen to

693
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: the photographer. They can see you. You can't see you, right.

694
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: It was probably was even more important then, right because

695
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: nowadays the photographer can see rather instantly what the the

696
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: the image is going to look like. You know, it's

697
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: going to be a framed and squared and they may

698
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: even be sharing that with you, either showing you the

699
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: back of their digital camera or using some sort of

700
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: a like a wireless or wired viewing system. But back

701
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: in uh, the olden days were discussing here like it

702
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: was all uh if they were using a box of camera,

703
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: it was all just in the box. It's only later

704
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: that the images are going to become real. Now. Obviously,

705
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: an exposure time of like ten to fifteen minutes for

706
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: a portrait is just unsustained ball. That's it doesn't really work.

707
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 1: So people tried all kinds of things to shorten the exposure.

708
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: This is also sometimes called the sitting time, right. Uh.

709
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 1: So one thing people tried is powdering the subject's face

710
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: to make it reflect more light, because the brighter something

711
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: is obviously the less time it takes to expose the photo.

712
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: Even on modern cameras. You know, you can think of

713
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: the analogy of how shooting in low light means you

714
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: have to leave the shutter open longer. So if you

715
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: basically cover somebody in in pale powder, they reflect more light,

716
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: it takes less time. Another one would be a photo

717
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: studio with white plaster walls to reflect as much light

718
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: as possible. Sometimes they would use like mirrors to shine

719
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: more sunlight onto the subject, which sounds really comfortable. I'm

720
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: sure that makes it even easier to hold the pose

721
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: when you've got like the sun in your eyes. Uh.

722
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: Sometimes they tried like blue glass to make bright light

723
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: from the windows less painful on the eyes of the

724
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: subject who just had to sit there staring into the sun. Uh.

725
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: Supposedly Henry Fox Talbot worked around this. He tried to

726
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: reduce sitting times by using a smaller camera. The light

727
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: had to travel less distance, and thus it would be

728
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: brighter and took less time to expose. There were some

729
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: improvements in lenses in general camera design. Uh. There was

730
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: a guy named Richard Beard who had a studio with

731
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: a chair that rotated to get the best son. But

732
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: the biggest improvements came in advances in chemistry. So around

733
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: the mid eighteen forties, people started using additional sensitizing chemicals.

734
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: Remember Digere only had to use iodine to to sensitize

735
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,959
Speaker 1: the silver plate. But there were a couple of guys

736
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: named Paul Beck Goddard in the in the United States

737
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: and John Frederick Goddard in England. That they're not related,

738
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: just both happened to be Goddard's. Uh. They started using

739
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: bromine fumes to make the plate even more sensitive to

740
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: light so it would capture more detail. And less time.

741
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: And then there was a French photographer named Antoine Claude

742
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: who used chlorine fumes in addition to the iodine to

743
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: make the plates more sensitive. So by further sensitizing the plate,

744
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: they could make it gather more light data in less time.

745
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: And these improvements, paired with better lenses and cameras and

746
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: good light, altogether reduced exposure times from minutes to a

747
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: matter of seconds. Now, of course, one thing that's funny

748
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: is that, uh, we mentioned the idea that a lot

749
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: of traditional artists didn't love the idea of photo portraits

750
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: because they might have seen it as replacing the work

751
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: they were doing. But there's another thing not everybody loved

752
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: about photo portraiture, which is that photos are too accurate.

753
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: They're not always flattering. A painter could do the equivalent

754
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: of photo shopping you to get the ward off your eyelid,

755
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: or to make you look taller. A Daguero type is

756
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: depressingly almost violently accurate. You know. Yeah, that's true. Um, yeah,

757
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: there were there were only so many things you could do, uh,

758
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: in order to cover up bluemishes, et cetera when using

759
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,720
Speaker 1: the Daguerada. Now that's not to say that there weren't

760
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: hand painted say improvements to deguerotypes at the time. They're

761
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 1: actually wereb though a lot a lot of people thought

762
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: these looked bad. Like. One of the things that started

763
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 1: happening or pretty early on, was the hand painted coloration

764
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: of Deguara types, which, of course, because it was not

765
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 1: color photography and people were like, well, where's the color.

766
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 1: Some people had the idea of, well, we'll just paint

767
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: the colors in, but of course that made it look

768
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: less like a realistic photo and more like a hand

769
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: painted thing, more like a like an illustration from a

770
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: William Blake uh publication. Right yeah. Now, of course, there's

771
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: no way to talk about all the many different little

772
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: incremental improvements and new methods that emerged in the following

773
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: decades in the forties and fifties, but one that's really

774
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: worth mentioning, I think would be Frederick Scott Archer's wet

775
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 1: plate method of photography. This was really important, which used

776
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: a treatment called a colodeon which it was this thick

777
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: liquid made out of like cotton, dissolved in nitric acid,

778
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: and then you'd mix that with alcohol and ether, and

779
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: then you'd apply that to a glass plate too since

780
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: ties it and this method actually got the best of

781
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 1: both worlds, between Dager's Daguero type and Henry Fox Talbot's

782
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: Callo type. It made a reproducible negative image like the calotype,

783
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: so you can make copies. But it also it was

784
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: sharp like the daguerotype. Remember the calotype was people thought

785
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: it looked kind of fuzzy and less realistic and striking

786
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: than the daguerotype. So this got the best of both worlds.

787
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: But speaking of quick turnaround on photos, one one type

788
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: of photochemical process that came along to improve the speed

789
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: and convenience of photo production was what came to be

790
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 1: known as the pharotype or the tin type. Yeah, this

791
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: is this is really interesting. So pharotype is the more

792
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: authentic term here, right, more accurate. Tin type was kind

793
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: of the informal um term, which is like tin as

794
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: you'll say, it has to do with the seeming cheapness

795
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: of the of the material. So yeah, and in eighteen

796
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: fifties of photography innovation that became really popular in the

797
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies. He was first described in eighteen fifty three

798
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: by out Alf Alexandra Martin, but it was patented in

799
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty seven by Hamilton's Smith in America and by

800
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: Clone and Jones in England. It used a process similar

801
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: to wet plate photography that we were just talking about.

802
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: It would produce an under exposed negative image on an

803
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: iron plate. And this is a very When I say

804
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: iron plate, I don't want you to imagine like an enormous,

805
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: thick like bullet catching piece of iron. It's very thin.

806
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: And this is where we get the tin type because

807
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: it was like this, this very thin layer um and

808
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: then imagining one of those like aluminum foil baking dishes, yeah,

809
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: something along those lines. So then it was blackened by

810
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: painting or lacquering and then coated with an emulsion, and

811
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: the dark background of the plate gave the image life,

812
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: and tin dipes didn't require special backing. All of this

813
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: could be done in a matter of minutes. Even so

814
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: you're preparing it, you're exposing it, you're developing, and you're

815
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: varnishing it. So this is essentially the first type of

816
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: instant pot right. It's kind of like the polaroid cameras

817
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: you'd see later, where you could you could have the

818
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: image ready in just a few minutes. Yeah, but also

819
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: it was more affordable than the the garatype, So it

820
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: was another one of these cases where the technology is

821
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: being um changed in a way that makes it reach

822
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: more people. And I think one of the interesting things

823
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: in the with the uh, with the innovations and inventions

824
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: that remain in this episode is that at this point

825
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: we're really getting into photography, not merely as a single invention,

826
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: not even really as a as you know, a sort

827
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: of a cloud of various folks working all over the

828
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: world and making slight changes, but we're getting into photography

829
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: as an industry of photography as as a business, and

830
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: it really begins to take on a life all its own.

831
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: One of the key examples here is George Eastman's Kodak,

832
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about when we come back from one

833
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: more break. All right, we're back. So everybody's heard of Kodak, right,

834
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: and you've probably heard of heard of George Eastman. Uh,

835
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: not the Italian B movie actor, but but the but

836
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: the historic, the truly famous George Eastman. And yeah, his

837
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: advancements with Kodak here really took something that was previously

838
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: this kind of science experiment of contraption, something best left

839
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: to experts and the wealthy and adventures and really made

840
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: huge strides and putting it towards putting it in the

841
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: hands of everyday people. It seems like it was the

842
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: next big step down in democratizing the art for everybody.

843
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: So the Dagara type and the Cala type like those

844
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: made imagery, realistic imagery much more accessible than just painting

845
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: portraiture had been. And then Kodak was even farther. Yes.

846
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: So George Eastman lived eighteen through nineteen ten. He was

847
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: a largely self educated guy who was the son of

848
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: a New York politician and educator, Harvey G. Eastman, founder

849
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 1: of Eastman's Commercial College in Rochester. And at the age

850
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: of twenty three, George Eastmen obtained a camera for a

851
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 1: vacation trip. This is going to go on. So if

852
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: he was born in eighteen twenty and he was at

853
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: the age of twenty three, this would have been about

854
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: eighteen forty three, just about three or four years after

855
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: the Daguara type process was publicly revealed, right, So you

856
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: know he was going to do what a lot of

857
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: us do now and take for granted, I'm going to

858
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: bring a camera on a vacation, get some photos, you know,

859
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 1: contribute to this, this this craze of photography that's sweeping

860
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: the world. But he ended up not ended up not

861
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: making the trip, but the equipment equipment that he had

862
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: picked up. It fascinated him, but he he had some

863
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: issues with the cost, with the weight, and with the

864
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: awkward design of the equipment. All of this irked him.

865
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: So he spent three years experimenting with gelatine emulsions in

866
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: his mother's kitchen and UH in seventy eight he demonstrated

867
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: how effective gelatine dry plates could be as opposed to

868
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: wet plates. This is this is an improvement wet plates, UH,

869
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: which had to be coded, exposed, and developed while still wet. UH.

870
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: You know that put some limitations on how much time

871
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: can pass after the photograph before developing it. Yeah. With

872
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 1: Archer's method, there are these stories about how you would

873
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: have to have portable dark rooms, right because if you

874
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: wanted to take a picture of something out in nature,

875
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: out in the field, you have to get make the

876
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: emulsion and get it wet and all that and take

877
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: the photo immediately before it dried out, and you have

878
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: to do all this in the dark. But with this

879
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: gelatine method, the dry plates could be exposed and then

880
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: you could develop them later at your leisure. Um, like

881
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: suddenly it's not just off to the races when you

882
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: take a picture. Then in eighteen eighty he invented and

883
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: patented a dry plate coading machine and this allowed for

884
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: the commercial production of these dry plates. And so at

885
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: this point things began to get more business e Right,

886
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: with the backing of Rochester businessman Henry Strong, he forms

887
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: the Eastman Dry Plate Company in eighteen eighty one, and

888
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: then this was reincorporated as the Eastman Dry Plate and

889
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: Film Company in eighteen eighty four and then as Eastman

890
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: Kodak Company in eighteen uh And of course Kodak uh

891
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: is still around today. It's still a publicly traded company.

892
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: Uh so. Um, you know, despite all the changes that

893
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: have occurred in the photographic world. I think it's you know,

894
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: it's a testament to the impact this company had to

895
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: realize that it is. It is still there now as

896
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: a photography business. Kodak wasn't just working on like the

897
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: media for the production, like the plates themselves. They actually

898
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: did work on cameras, right. Yeah. One of the big

899
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: things they did is they developed more affordable and easy

900
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: to use cameras. Uh, certainly by eighteen eighty eight. Uh,

901
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: this was when they started busting out the box camera.

902
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: So the box camera is when I say a box,

903
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: you can look at pictures of these. They did look

904
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: like a box, just like a whole on one end

905
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: for the lens it had, but it had the lens

906
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: film everything you needed to take a basic photograph. This

907
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: wasn't the first box camera in the Kodak rolled out,

908
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: but it was the first commercially viable one. And their

909
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: their motto was you press the button, we do the rest, uh,

910
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: which is also just you know, it's it's a great slogan,

911
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: but but yeah, they've taken this thing that we've described,

912
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: this laborious process, and they've put it in a box

913
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: and you push a button and you're essentially good to go.

914
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: And this is also really the point in which modern

915
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: snapshot photography truly becomes possible. Uh, just a really a

916
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: major moment in the accessibility of photography. You don't have

917
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: to set out to do this science experiment. You can

918
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: just grab your camera and go. So other key moments

919
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: from the history of Kodak. And I'm we're not gonna

920
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: be able to cover it all because again this is

921
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: a company with a long history, but they establish professional

922
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: photo finishing. They developed a flexible celluloid film that would

923
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: be extremely important in the development of motion pictures, which

924
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: we'll get to believe in the next episode. Unless we

925
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,839
Speaker 1: take a photo break, I'm not sure what we're gonna Well,

926
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: certainly in an episode soon in the future. Yes, they

927
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: busted out the pocket code at camera, the folding pocket camera,

928
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 1: and uh then in nineteen hundred the one dollar Brownie camera,

929
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 1: which I was not familiar with this one. Looked at

930
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 1: pictures of it. It's a little box camera and it

931
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: has this kind of cartoon uh tweedle dumb tweedlede kind

932
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: of character on the side. And yeah, it was a

933
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: camera you could buy for a dollar. Granted those were

934
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred dollars, but still, um, like, this is the

935
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: the the camera becoming ever more inexpensive and ever more

936
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: available to the people at large. Well, I think one

937
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: thing that we should make a distinction about is the

938
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: democratization of access to photography is like like a thing

939
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: you could get like a portrait made, versus the democratization

940
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: of photography as something you could do yourself, choosing what

941
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: to take a photo of. Right, because so there were

942
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: people who were you know, who would take a decara

943
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: type of you in the eighteen forties and the eighteen

944
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: fifties that you could pay, and that made it affordable

945
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: for people to get an image of themselves. But if

946
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: you wanted to go out in the world and take

947
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: a picture of something that struck your fancy, this is

948
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: where that that's really changing. Yeah. Um, other advancements in

949
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: nineteen o two they rolled out the developing machine that

950
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: you could develop your own film without a dark room. Uh.

951
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: Aerial photography advancements took place in nineteen seventeen. So here

952
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: we see, you know, the uh, the advancement of photography

953
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: lining up with advancements in other fields. Five you get

954
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: Code Chrome, the first commercially successful amateur color film, and

955
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 1: at nineteen thirty seven you get the code of slide

956
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 1: projector uh. So uh kind of going back to the

957
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 1: uh some of the ideas of the the camera obscura

958
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: right like, now we're taking our images and we're projecting

959
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: them onto the wall again, only we're doing it right

960
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: side up this time and with more clarity and Again,

961
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: this is just a sample because of course Kodak is

962
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: was one of the world's leading photo technology companies. But

963
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: I think it does highlight just the kind of um,

964
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,320
Speaker 1: really rapid advancements you see, and so in business savvy

965
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: advancements that end up taking place once uh, the invention

966
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: becomes the property of industry, and of course it would

967
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: play into other industries as well. Um Kodak would end

968
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: up being involved in not only the development of motion pictures,

969
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: which we alluded to already, but also the X ray industry,

970
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: which we've already podcasted on. Well, yeah, I mean that's

971
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: something to think about as we consider the legacy of photography,

972
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: especially in the early years. One really positive and practical

973
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: use we should think of coming out of photography, I

974
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: think is going back to X rays and runkin. Like

975
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: the use of various forms of photography and medicine has

976
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: been absolutely incalculable and the good it's provided and people.

977
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: You know, when we express gratitude for modern medicine, we

978
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: often correctly think to mention things like vaccines and antibiotics

979
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: and anesthetics and modern surgical techniques. It's I think it

980
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: less often occurs to us to think of medical imaging

981
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: is something to be thankful for. But the radical advancement

982
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: of medical imaging is one of the most important things

983
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: that happened in medicine over the past two hundred years.

984
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: It it improves accuracy and diagnosis of internal problems, which

985
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,680
Speaker 1: drastically improves outcomes, and it can, in a way, all

986
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: be traced back to photography. Now again, there's just so

987
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: many photo photographic innovations and inventions were just not gonna

988
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: have time to cover, Like the polaroid was a major point.

989
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: I remember just being fascinated by the polaroid camera when

990
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: I was a child. You could point the camera, uh

991
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: take the picture. How did it comes? You just kind

992
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: of shake it or let it do thing and the

993
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: image materializes there. You didn't have to take film anywhere

994
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: to be developed. Who are you know? They didn't have

995
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: to uh stick anything in a little tube. It was

996
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: just there. It was ready to go immortalized. In fact,

997
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: as we all discovered when we got older, you didn't

998
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: even actually have to shake it. Um. One of the

999
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: funny things that I was reading about was how in

1000
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: the early days did guara type as a word. It

1001
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: got the same sort of treatment as words like band

1002
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 1: aid and Xerox, where a specific brand name uh came

1003
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: to be used as a stand in for all technologies

1004
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: of its type. Like there's a story that Henry Fox

1005
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: Talbot was distressed to find out that his callow type

1006
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: method was sometimes being referred to as the paper diguero type.

1007
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: What a kick in the face. So let's talk just

1008
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: a little bit more about about the legacy of the photograph. Um.

1009
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: You know, we've touched on a lot of this already

1010
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: in the previous two episodes, but you know, there's a

1011
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: tremendous amount to be said about the idea of the

1012
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: photograph as an objective statement of truth an in many

1013
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: ways it is you know, it would prove a highly

1014
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: essential tool in journalism and the documentation of wars and strife,

1015
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: as well as in you know, positive movement movements and

1016
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 1: humanizing moments in in recent human history. We can easily

1017
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: think to the really jarring photographs of misery and death

1018
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: in wartime of racial strife, of protests, but also the

1019
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: humanizing movement moments where uh, you know, an individual that

1020
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: might otherwise be um, you know, considered you know another

1021
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,960
Speaker 1: and and and dehumanized or made more human through the imagery.

1022
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: I wonder if the widespread use of realistic imagery, photography,

1023
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: and then later on motion pictures and video is to

1024
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: some degree responsible for the increasing appreciation of human rights

1025
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: in the twentieth century, Like the idea that, oh, you know,

1026
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: maybe people in a place other than where I am

1027
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: do matter and have the same you know, rights and

1028
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: concerns that I do. Yeah, it's yeah. But on the

1029
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: other hand, though, and there are examples of the photograph

1030
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: being used I think as a tool of um, you know,

1031
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: who want to focus on the otherness of different races

1032
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: and cultures, as well as by those who wish to, uh,

1033
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, to highlight our similarities. Um you know. We

1034
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: should remember that it was not only the photography was

1035
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: not only used to document things in a positive manner,

1036
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: was also used in an attempt to control people of

1037
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: Photography has been used as a tool of state control,

1038
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: of social control, as a means of tracking individuals. Um

1039
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: you know it is. It's been a tool of propaganda

1040
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: as well. It's been a tool of blackmail and exploitation.

1041
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: Uh you know. They These are not cases where the

1042
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: invention necessarily changes human nature, but it's always worth remembering

1043
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: that human nature is going to shine through a technology, right, Uh,

1044
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: and that means in both positive and negative ways, Like

1045
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: the things that make humans admirable, We're going to see

1046
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: that in a ubiquitous technology, but we're also going to

1047
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: see our awfulness. I guess the I guess one of

1048
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: the things that you see that I guess you see

1049
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: both of those and say, um, uh wartime photography and

1050
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: journalistic photography where you're capturing the ugliness, but you're trying

1051
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: to bring the truth of the ugliness out in a

1052
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: way that that that can benefit us, that can enable

1053
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: us to move past it, you know, And um, you know,

1054
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: I guess ultimately that's what we have to to try

1055
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: and grab onto in and and looking at our history

1056
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,320
Speaker 1: of technology, but again always just coming back to the

1057
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: realization that technology is uh. Any given technology is not

1058
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: good or evil. Uh, it is uh. It is all

1059
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: about the way that it is utilized. Well, yeah, that's true,

1060
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 1: because technology does not act on its own, though at

1061
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: the same time, I'm certainly of the opinion that not

1062
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: all technology is say neutral or or equally neutral. I mean, um,

1063
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: technology doesn't do anything until it's used by people. But

1064
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: there are technologies that have technologies of inherent tendencies, They

1065
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: have ways that are in which they can easily be

1066
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 1: used and deployed. And so I don't think that like

1067
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: all technologies are on an equal footing in terms of

1068
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: like how harmful they are likely to be. In some cases,

1069
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: this is really clear. I mean obviously, like a uh,

1070
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: like a poison gas or a gun is not the

1071
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: same as like a method of sterilizing wounds. You know,

1072
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: these like have inherent tendencies that make them more easy

1073
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: to be used for good or evil. Photography is one

1074
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: of those big ones where you know, it's it's it's

1075
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: it's scope is so broad that it's hard to it's

1076
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: hard to put it in one of those categories. Uh,

1077
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,080
Speaker 1: it's it's used for everything because it is the objective

1078
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: record of life. It is the objective record of the world.

1079
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: And thus in any case where it can be useful

1080
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: to represent the world, which is in almost every domain

1081
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: of human life, it can be used can be. Yeah,

1082
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: the the key here though, But but now, for the

1083
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: most part, I definitely agree that the photography has had

1084
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: tremendous positive impact. But I just think we have to

1085
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: keep in mind, uh, the areas where it has been

1086
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: used for ill as well. All right, so there you

1087
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: have it. Uh photography. Uh, I think I think that'll

1088
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,520
Speaker 1: do it. Uh. Three episodes. Uh, there's a lot to cover.

1089
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: We didn't cover nearly all of it. But hopefully everyone

1090
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: will leave these episodes with a new you know, a

1091
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: new respect and even awe of what photographs do for

1092
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: us and and what kind of amazing power we have,

1093
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: you know, in our pockets right now, most of us

1094
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: in the modern digital camera. Now as we uh we

1095
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: mentioned we're not done with with with photos. We're certainly

1096
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: not done with the image. We're hopefully I'm going to

1097
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 1: move on to motion pictures at some point in the

1098
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 1: future here. But uh, yeah, this was a fun one.

1099
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: I really feel like I I learned some things I

1100
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: wasn't aware of regarding the history of photography, and I

1101
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: have a new respect for the media myself. Yeah, totally.

1102
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: This has proved very rich subject matter. In the meantime,

1103
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: if you want to check out more episodes of Invention,

1104
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: head on over to Invention pod dot com and that's

1105
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: where we'll find the episodes. And uh, if you want

1106
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: to support the show, the best thing you can do

1107
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: is just make sure you have subscribed, and then if

1108
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: you can leave us a nice rating a nice review

1109
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 1: wherever you get the show, that would also be tremendously helpful.

1110
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer, Tari Harrison.

1111
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

1112
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 1: to let us know feedback on this episode or any other,

1113
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to

1114
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at invention

1115
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 1: pod dot com. Invention is production of I Heart Radio.

1116
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio because the iHeart

1117
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1118
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: favorite shows,