WEBVTT - The Woman Who Watched It All 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:06.760 Amy and TJ present Aubrey O'Day covering the Didy trial. Okay, 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:11.399 so hey guys, we are back. 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.360 We are now in the home stretch. 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:18.960 Officially, the government has rested and the defense has rested. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.079 But let me first introduce my guest, Elizabeth wad My 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:27.000 search is my favorite journalist of all time, the most 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:32.320 epic ever. Elizabeth was the one that obtained the video 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:37.440 of Cassie being horrifically beat in the hallway and was 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.159 able to bring it to the forefront and start to 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:47.200 the really big discussion that has become this trial of 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:52.600 Diddy and his behavior. That video was for me, I'll 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.840 just speak from on my own end. That was the 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:57.800 first time anyone on the victim side got to breathe. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:00.800 A lot of loss, A lot of. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.520 Things were going on during that time. That video was 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.600 the very first thing that I noticed. A majority of 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.760 my cell phone was like, oh my God, like I 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.240 can take a breath. A majority of people that write 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:19.080 me they felt like maybe people will believe them a 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.640 little bit, and it was the first time they had 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.920 ever gotten the chance to feel that in their life. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.360 What's so interesting about that? And you know, I'm hearing 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.479 you speak from your perspective and the perspective of other 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.199 people that you had been in touch with. But what's 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.959 so interesting, and this feels like such a long time ago, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:40.800 because now we're at the tail end of the trial, 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:45.280 But remember that when our team at CNN, when we 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:52.080 broke that footage, Remember that Sean Holmes had denied everything 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:57.840 in Cassy's lawsuits. Before that, he released a statement denying 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.560 the quaims. Now, he did not get into the specifics, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.000 but when her lossuit came out, he said that it 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.800 was entirely untrue. That's not a quote I'm paraphrasing. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.040 Yeah, I guess him paying her off within twenty four 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:10.800 hours kind of killed that for all of us in 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:11.320 the streets. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.359 But here's what was so interesting. But I'm glad you 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.600 brought up that there was a settlement because you remember 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.359 that his attorney at the time, he's no longer representing him, 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.120 So he's a statement to the media at that point 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.800 saying that a settlement is in no way in an 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.120 admission of guilt. And then what do you know, we 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:32.640 released this video, which is obviously horrific and every which way. Yeah, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:36.799 and it wasn't until then that we got the apologies. 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.840 Well, here's what's crazy too. Were you not tripping when 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.280 you were in court? Because another thing for everyone listening, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.400 she's in court every day, So this is my first 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.000 chance to really get to speak with someone that is. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.720 Of course I speak to people inside the courtroom every 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.720 day all day, but for my audience, this is the 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:56.080 first time we're getting in a true insider's perspective of 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:57.840 the room. So I wanted, I do want to spend 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.639 a lot of our time asking you about the way 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:01.600 that things are looking. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.760 I didn't realize that. I also, yeah, it's that I 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.320 was your first guest who's inside the koorom. 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.200 So yeah, I mean, I mean, you know a lot 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.839 of journalists that come forward or that talk about this 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:17.480 are not sitting there like you are, watching every single thing. 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:19.720 Like even for your own company, you'll go in and 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.560 do reports on scene or you see reports on scene 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.840 when you watch any any news company. But to sit 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:27.920 down and like have a heart to heart with somebody 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:32.440 that's truly observing everything, it really does open your perspective 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.840 much wider. So tell me what it looked like for 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.040 him to stand up. I heard he's skinnier than normal. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.960 There's reports about gray gums. I don't know what that 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.000 means or doesn't mean. My people have been telling me 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.760 different things, the hair being very gray. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:50.400 Let's got a haircut this week. 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.440 By the way, Oh, there was a haircut this week. 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:53.560 There was a haircut this week. 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:56.480 Maybe that helps with the energy, because today's energy in 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:01.280 writing came like a bullet through my heart with the 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:05.400 I'm great, thank you so much. Judge, you're doing a 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.520 great job. Are you in charge of the whole jury 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.360 and room? And are you congratulating the judge on doing 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:13.120 a great job. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.719 Well, the first thing is that's really important. The jury 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:18.000 was not present for. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:20.360 That, so the jury didn't even get to hear him 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.599 say I'm choosing not to testify. 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:29.920 No, why the jury was on the lunch brace. And 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.880 then that is when, as you said, with this rule 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.440 twenty nine, that his defense filed the motion for acquittal, 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.719 they are asking the judge to say that he's not 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.960 guilty on all five charges. That happens not in the 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:44.640 presence of the jury. And then, as you said, the 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.880 judge didn't make a decision. So the judge basically that 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:48.200 I'm not going to rule on this right now. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.400 But in ninety nine percent of the times. Judges never 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.760 roll on Rule twenty nine motions. They want to leave 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:56.560 it up to the jury. I highly doubt it's going 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:57.160 to happen here. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.800 Oh no, it would be. It would be the biggest shocked. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.839 It would be the biggest shot and they either way. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.440 I wanted to say to tell me exactly how it looks, 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.200 but also I wanted to say to you before I 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.039 forget to analyze this when you come back with your response. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.880 It felt scary, like a freight train, like a bullet 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.000 through my heart. But then when I sat with it 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.400 for a second, I thought, if I'm a judge and 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:22.919 you feel mighty as a judge, you go through a 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.320 whole lot of schooling, a whole lot of test taking, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:28.760 a whole lot of mastering in order. 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:29.520 To get that position. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.800 To have somebody who you've had to watch and freak 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.000 off and watch women testify all kinds of different things, 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.080 to have to watch that with a straight face, and 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.080 then have that same man first words over you be, Hey, 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.760 great job, You're doing a good job, Bud. I would 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.919 go home and feel some kind of way about that 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.960 type of arrogance. Did he proceed it with arrogance? Was 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.000 there any of that in his facial look. 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.479 So here's what I'll tell you this judge. I've covered 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.279 a lot of trials. This judge incredibly fair and he 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.320 has complete control over the courtroom. He has control. He's 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.880 very very conscious he has control over both parties. So 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.479 he kind of chuckled when he said, you know, thank 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:11.120 you to him. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:11.800 Wow. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.760 But you wouldn't be able to tell if he found 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.040 it arrogant or if he found it endearing. But all 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.239 that I have to tell you is this is a drug. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:22.520 As all judges should be with this. 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.360 How long was the chuckle, Elizabeth? 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.480 Oh, it was quick, Like this was a comment of 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.279 like okay, moving on. You know, like he responded to 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.400 be polite because of a human you have to respond 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:32.880 to someone. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.760 Now, he definitely felt the narcissism on it. It's off putting. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.520 I feel like that's a stumble of off put that's 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.960 not like a wow. I feel so lucky that the 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.599 guy that was just in that video pissing all over 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.480 people is telling me I did a great job. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.560 Well. Remember this is also the judge who remember when 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.120 Diddy was trying to be released on bail as he 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.080 was awaiting up three times three times that this is 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.360 a judge. That's the third time he would not release 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.200 them on bail because he agreed with executor that Diddy 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.960 was a danger to society. So I think this judge 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.520 is very focused on the facts, very focused on the evidence. 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:13.680 The testimony. Something like a polite comments is not going anywhere. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.120 It's not the Dudeen's decision. 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.640 Well, what's crazy is is like it's almost I know, 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.480 you know as well as I mastered as a student 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.960 of people, I would say I do that better than 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:30.040 singing as a student of people. I watched ditty for 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.800 many years. People are going to look at it like, oh, 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:35.960 he's so arrogant. He thinks he run things like how 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.640 I said, Wow, King Knight, you're in charge of the room. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.960 He must just never be able to get out of 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.720 that mind state if he's the boss. It's in there. 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.480 But I read it as a tell in a negative way. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.600 I read it as a tell a little bit. And 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.560 I really need your help tomorrow. I need you to 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.880 give my attorneys a little bit of the doak when 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.800 they come at you with how we're wording some of 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:03.720 these things. 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:06.880 Well, look, I mean this is it's. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.840 Going to come down to how they word things. This 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.000 trial is not a slam dunk, unfortunately, and a lot 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.960 of people are confused by that. A lot of victims 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.440 are pissed off by that. But it's just not a 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:21.240 slam dunk, unfortunately, it's not. 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.600 It's not at all. And look, sex crimes are incredibly 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:30.040 difficult to prosecute. It is a staggering small percentage of 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.280 how many sex crimes are even prosecuted. So the fact 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:40.200 that this is even in a courtroom is really unbelievable. 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.200 Truly, if I take my emotions off of it, it's 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.640 just coming down to consent. And here's what I'm finding. 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:48.880 In a lot of the things that were submitted by 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.440 the defense. There was a lot of in writing proof 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.720 that Sean was paying for the escorts. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:55.560 There was and. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.719 Actually, so when we talk about that, yeah, but you 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.719 just really hurt you you guys. DI stumbled a little bit. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:03.720 The prosecution had a point where they came in and 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.800 were like, wait, so did you just say that he 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.439 paid you to transport somebody over across lines to commit. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.920 What Today's I thought that right, So let me tell 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.880 you exactly how that went down, because you know those 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.160 five charges, those racketeering sex, trafficking and transportation to engage 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.000 in prostitution. So this summary witness who's been on was 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.319 on the witness stand for three days, the prosecution's final witness, 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.199 as you know, and I won't bore you with this. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.760 So basically he went through charts and charts and charts 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.000 and charts, and in the courtroom it's actually really boring. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.440 But here people are falling asleep. But here's the thing. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.720 It actually can prove to be one of the most 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.440 crucial witnesses because he is may be boring to listen to, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.079 but this witness presented evidence. And now where's that evidence 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.000 going into the hands of the jury when they're in 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.280 the deliberation room. So when we see that there's thousands 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.440 of pages of phone records, hotel records, flight records, text messages, 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:04.120 big state, and those flight records are showing that male escort, 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.360 you know, number one whatever, you know. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.880 Couple flown from here to there and here to there. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.240 So the moment that you're talking about, which I would 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:15.040 say for the prosecution. 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:16.040 Already woke everyone up. 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.640 It was a nice drop moment. So on read direct. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.080 Of course, the prosecution goes first. Then cross examination was 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.839 a day and a half. And then the prosecutor Marine Comy. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.760 She gets up there, and this is not an exact quote, 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.760 but she looks at the witness and she said, the 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.880 exhibits that you showed, what wasn't that proof of traveling 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.200 Cabral across state lines? And then you hear objection and 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.800 then adjections the same, and then she asked it in 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.080 another way, and then objection sustained, and then she finally said, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.120 didn't Cabral fly from Atlanta to Miami on a flight 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.679 paid by mister? And they said yes, yes. What is 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.880 so strategic and smart of both When the prosecution and 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.520 the defense does this, they ask questions that they know 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.920 there's going to be an objection to. They know it 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.320 will be sustained. It will not be in the testimony, 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.000 meaning when the jury's deliberating, they're not looking at that. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.360 But they don't forget it. You don't ever forget it. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.520 There's a praise in courtrooms which is you can't hund 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:17.120 ring that bell. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.120 By the way, a lot of court cases are just 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.360 decided by that little tiny word. You just so that 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.240 little tiny pocket. If you were to be looking at 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.720 a pie chart, it's like a little sliver of terry pie. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.480 But really it's where a trial's guts are. 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:41.600 Exactly. 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:44.600 It's been those objections that are not going to be 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.640 put on record, but you still heard as a jerky 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.240 xactly right now. I'm still the genius at that. Actually, 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:54.439 all A Diddy's team has been killing that this entire trial. 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:55.480 They've been doing a great. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:55.800 Job at that. 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.640 What you're seeing in a lot of the writing are 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.880 moments of content, But what you're hearing on the stand 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.840 is that moment of consent. Is this is actually where 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.360 I was and how I felt when I wrote this message. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.640 That looks damning if you were to see the message 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.000 in black and white, but when you had the person 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.880 on the stand saying when I said, oh, I wanted 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.200 be extra dirty this time, in my head, I was 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.120 in my room knowing that he was with the other 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.920 girl and that he loved me when I did this, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:26.960 and then he was going to leave me or go 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:28.960 off with this other person, or that he wouldn't even 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.120 spend time with me this week, and I would feel 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.240 like low self worth, no value as a person. My 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.960 whole life, my identity was attached to him. I couldn't 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.520 even literally drive a car or leave a house without 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.120 being reported on. And I wanted his attention, and so 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:47.520 I offered him up some free pictures or sex talk 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.560 or chat in order to engage him. Because he showed 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.800 these women exactly what their value was enough times to 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.120 know what it is they have to do in order 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.480 to be exciting to them. And when he loses interest, 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:04.160 which basicly is coercion, that's what music industry coersion looks like. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.280 Baby girl, let me tell you what this is, that 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.800 baby girl line of his. Oh man, we all know 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.880 it so well, baby girl, this is what it is. 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.679 This is how your body needs to look, and this 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.720 is how you need to be if you want my attention. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:20.679 This is what you need to do, if you want 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.960 a platinum album, This is what you need to do 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.800 if you want to have Daddy's money and attention. It's 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:30.319 all coercion in one way or another. It's somebody very 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.680 powerful against people that are so don't even understand the 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:35.920 power system. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.760 Then you know, this is exactly why the prosecution has 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.640 spent so much time on baby oil, baby oil, baby oil, 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.920 hotel rooms, hotel rooms, you know all these things. And 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.000 I obviously follow all the commentary on TikTok on social 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.680 media everywhere, and a lot of people are saying, we 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.840 get it. He has the freak coups like why do 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.680 you keep bringing this up? But you bring up a 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.959 really smart point because if juror believes that this pattern, 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.959 when you have done this to multiple women, even if 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:09.280 the girlfriend's consensual girlfriends, if this is the behavior that 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.559 you expect from these women, and it may not seem 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.800 normal to a lot of these jurors, then they may 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.600 think exactly what you're saying, Audrey, which is wow, that 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.760 does feel like coercion. And even if these women in 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.920 text and in person agreed to it seem willing. I 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.120 keep saying throughout this trial, this is going to come 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.840 down to does the jury believe what they see in 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.920 evidence or do they believe what they've heard. And that's 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.720 why these things are so hard to prove because it 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.000 can be very, very confusing and complex. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.520 Cassie and Jane. For me, I mean, I know them both, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.400 I've been around them both. I've seen how both operate 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.960 and maneuver. Two different, totally different human beings, two totally 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.880 different women. I know what the jurors are seeing because 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.680 I know who these people are. I know how they ask, 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.800 I know what their mannerisms are. I've studied them. I've 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.200 been around them enough to understand them. I know how 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.160 they come up. I don't know how they came up 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:04.880 in the room. But you, as somebody who is an 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.720 observer who didn't know them in a prior life and 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.760 was just observing them during this trial, if you're a 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.040 person in the jury or by standard, in the room 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.920 in general, were you able to see that these two 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.840 girls may have different intentions when they operate. 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.720 These are two completely different women. 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.080 And it was clear to you you wouldn't get them 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:27.880 mixed up, even if you were a man who doesn't 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.200 think about women and that many diverse categories potentially, I 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:33.000 believe this as. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.440 Clear as day, that these are very different women. Now 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.880 is a crossover, yes, if you are maybe a more 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.080 you know, adjur with more conservative beliefs. And I'm not 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.920 saying that politically, I mean like conservative meaning that you 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.400 would never go to a sex party and that everything 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:57.040 you're hearing is disgusting to you. They may say, then, 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.000 quite frankly, sorry, I'm going on to hand it out 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.000 something that I have been thinking of, knowing these jury 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:05.920 behaviors and how they deliberate. There can be a fair 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.720 amount of floodshaming from these jurors on these women. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.560 Because I want to be honest with you, I'm doing 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.680 it at home. I'm just going to straight up say 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.120 it as a woman. I don't believe in it. I 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:22.160 don't like it. I stand against it. I absolutely despise 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.600 any thoughts like that, and I want to be honest. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.840 I've had thoughts like that during this trial. I don't 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.680 go and broadcast them. I have personal friends that i'll 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.200 express them to that I know will hold that discretion 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.160 for me to be able to get something out of 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.600 my body that is necessary for me to be able 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.640 to keep my bias in check. All the way up 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:47.040 until the first person got on the stand. I judged 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.680 that person too many times. And I am the first 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.920 celebrity that came forward and took up for her. 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:54.600 I don't even know how many. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:55.040 Did after me. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:56.080 Frankly, not many. 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.440 When I was the first person to come in this 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.280 industry and say I back, Cassie you. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.400 Were I remember I was on air and I saw 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:06.840 what you wrote, and I read it on air. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.080 I read so and I had moments where I had 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.679 to where I really had to like make sure I 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.200 was standing on ten toes because there were things I saw. 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.800 There were willing days, and I was sitting all the 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.160 way up to her taking the stand, like, man, oh man, 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.320 I hope she is honest, and I hope it is 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.320 what I thought it was when I saw it. You know, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.320 this is somebody that was so naive, was so young, 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.560 was so unaware of so many things, and got swept 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.639 into this world that is like is like Disneyland on 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:40.240 crack and the minute hands. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.480 You crack, right, Okay, So Ashley, this is the difference. 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.600 This is the main difference between Cassie in Vaine and 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.199 if this is from my observation in the courtroom and 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.560 if I'm a jur this is what I'm thinking. The 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.439 main difference is Caffi was nineteen years old, she was 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.320 signed a bad boy, She was given a ten record deal, 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.120 which is not something that exists, and then suddenly she's 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.520 on the label. She comes out with this huge hit 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:08.880 which only he can control, and then she's his girlfriend. Jane, 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:13.879 on the other hand, was not nineteen. She was a 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:19.040 grown woman later in life, and she was a girlfriend. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.040 She says she was a girlfriend so whatever you want 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.760 to call it, she was not a musician. She was 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.879 not on his label, her career was not in his hand. 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:32.040 She testified to that he was pursuing her and she 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:37.440 was pursuing him. So very different women in very different stories. 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.440 And that's why, you know, after Jane's testimony, a lot 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.440 of our legal analysts on CNN we're saying, why was 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.840 the prosecutors called Jane she has now damaged Cassie's testimony? 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.280 What were their responses to that? Because I felt like 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.800 they first thought about like she was on longer than Cassie. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.359 I don't know if she was that. It felt like 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.320 Cassie was four days and Jane was six days. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.480 Yeah, why didn't need six days of her? 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:02.160 Number one? 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.960 Number two? Once she started getting past a certain point, 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.800 I was wondering, like, why are we continuing this? Like 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.679 it's starting to bleed into Cassie. I was feeling it's 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.080 starting to take over Cassie and Cassie's She got done, 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.520 and I was like, I am so glad that I 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:21.520 stood by her. She told the truth, He told the 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.480 hard truths. She told the days where she wanted things right. 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.679 I gleed to things she was transparent about who she 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.719 was and able to identify who that first person was. 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.080 And she's been able to grow enough to be able 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.200 to reflect on that, and I felt all of it 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.040 was like it all felt like it felt like it 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.800 sat right in my heart. In regards to defending it. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.800 Being in the courtroom, it really resonated. 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.439 Now did Jane resonate with the jury? 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.040 I think Jane is so complex because she's sitting there 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.560 on the stands saying that my attorney representing me today 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.840 is being paid by Shawn Combs, the homan with from 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.359 living with my kid is being I. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:05.560 Can take her up the stand right then and there. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:06.880 Why does Soulcris be there? 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.920 This was a gift to the defense and that's why 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.840 she was on the stand for so long, because the 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:15.600 defense had a field day with her and they weren't 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.320 going to let her off the stand. And that's the 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.320 risk you run anytime you bring on a complex witness. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.080 But I bring up these patterns which I set a 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:29.760 few moments ago. Even if many people think that Jane 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.760 was a very problematic witness, and she certainly may prove 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.840