1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Crunty and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Welcome back to d Land yet episode So I think 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: this is our lucky lucky number. We said episode eleven 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: was our lucky, but I think thirteen is Corby's lucky. 12 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: That's Corbyn's lucky. This is our lucky. We have a 13 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: very special guest today, Linda boff CMO of GE My Boss, 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: My Client, And I think one of the things that 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: people get to hear on this show from us is, 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: you know what we think is disruptive in the industry 17 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: and where we see the white space on the opportunity, 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: Linda's living it and quite frankly, Linda's pioneered a lot 19 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: of it, a lot of it, and like it's so 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: funny because like I was just talking to someone recently 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: and they were saying, oh, we don't do our FPS 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: anymore Requests for proposal right, And Linda, in a couple 23 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: of years ago, wrote this piece r I P the RFP, 24 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: which I loved and we loved. We signed co signed it. 25 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, it's really easy to 26 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: hear those headlines, it's easy to read those articles and 27 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: see the outcome right of her decisions. I think we're 28 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: really lucky to sit with her and understand what goes 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: into it, or at least get a glimmer of how 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: she thinks about and who she thinks about being at 31 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: the table while she's making those decisions. So Part one 32 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: of our CMO Confidential series starts right after the break 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: with g E c MO Linda baff We'll be right back. 34 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: We're here a total girl boss CMO executive, our boss. 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: Let's the one and all. Nate Welcome, Linda. So great 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: to be here. I love that this is episode. It's lucky. 37 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: I love it and I'm honestly, I'm so honored to 38 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: be here. Come on, So we Alex and I have 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time prepping for this interview, which 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: is funny because we don't usually do don't usually do it? Oh, 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm totally on the hot scene because 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: we know, obviously having worked for you, we were going 43 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: over in our head last five or six years very 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: closely on a lot of the work that you've done. 45 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: We feel like the industry has done a great job 46 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: of covering and asking you questions about the work we've 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: all done together. But what we want to use today 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: for is to give people the side of Linda that 49 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: people don't normally get to see and like what inspired you, 50 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,119 Speaker 1: Like how do you embrace your leadership role and sort 51 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: of the qualities that you look for and up and 52 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: coming talent and those sort of things. So we're going 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: to get right into it, and also things that like 54 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: make you tick as a them o so personal and 55 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: how you kind of your view of the world because 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: we know Laura and I know it's really unique, right 57 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: because it was always so exciting to think about what 58 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: does good look like to you? And you have always 59 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: been this person who can identify this is the direction 60 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: and this is good, this is where we should go. 61 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: How do you do that? I really feel like this 62 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: is a trio, right, We've worked together for six years 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: or so, and I'm so unbelievably proud of what we've done. 64 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: And when I think about it, I think part of 65 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: why the body of work feels as good as it 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: does to all of us is that I think we 67 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: always start in the right place, which is what is 68 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: the user, viewer, listener going to attach to? And you know, 69 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: why is this to get somebody excited? Why is somebody 70 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: going to engage? Um? What's going to be differentiated for 71 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: ge but not just differentiated for g E right, sort 72 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: of bring to life the essence of who we are, 73 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: but in a way that the person at the other end, 74 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: whatever that end is, is going to find super inherently interesting. 75 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think that's been our north star. 76 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: And we've come up with lots of ways that have 77 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: gotten us there. Um, whether it's unique partnerships, um, you know, 78 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: we have so much fun thinking about where the industry 79 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: is headed. You know, it's a tired expression where the 80 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: puck is going, but it's not tired the way we 81 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: do it right. We do it in a way of, um, 82 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: what's next? And it's just that's the great fun of 83 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: what we do is puzzling that out. It's so funny, 84 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: so gosh, I want to say it was like probably 85 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: five years ago we were working on this thirty rock thing. 86 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: Do you remember this so super well? And I still 87 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: remember sitting in the office and you looked at me 88 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: and Andy Goldberg are creative director chief creative officer now, 89 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: and you said, if this has got to be human 90 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: and it's got to be really funny, we are funny. 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: This show is built about us, and we're funny, right, 92 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: And it totally changed how we approached everything. And I 93 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: remember that day saying, not only is this a person 94 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: who's kind of rewriting the rules in uh right, presumably 95 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: be two B space rewriting the rules in how do 96 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: we actually question things? And Laura and I talked about 97 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: this a lot on the show. Is like, don't let 98 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: um your network or your media buyer or someone just 99 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: hand you something and say, oh, that's okay, We're going 100 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: to fill that space. You question the space. I remember. 101 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: It's really nice of you to say, I remember a conversation. 102 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: It has to be about five or six years ago. 103 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: This one was with BuzzFeed, with Jonah Bretta, who's literally 104 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: one of my heroes. Probably the same thing for both 105 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: of you, and we were having this debate. It was 106 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: early ish days for BuzzFeed, and I mean, we all 107 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: know what they're so great at in terms of how 108 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: they framed their stories, etcetera. In the debate was um 109 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: As brands were entering the BuzzFeed space, my feeling, and 110 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: I think all of our feeling, was whatever a brand 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: did had to be as good, if not better than 112 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: what was appearing on BuzzFeed, because that's what you're up against, right, 113 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: It's what's interesting, what's amazing, what's amazing. Literally, in our 114 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: last episode said it's only branded content when it's bad content, 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: like somebody is a tattoo that somewhere. Branded content feels 116 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: like a slur to me, and I think it's an 117 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: excuse to say, well, it's not as good. I mean, 118 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: what's content anyway, it's a great story. And we all 119 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: want to be in that business of figuring out what 120 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: makes a great story. And the bar I hold us too, 121 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: and I know because you're my partners and all of 122 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: this is the highest bar, right, not the highest bar 123 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: for a brand, just the highest bar that is the 124 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: different and differentiator and a leader to be able to 125 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: see that talent, how do you do that do you 126 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: think about it? I think about it a lot. I mean, 127 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: I would say, you know, I think about the work 128 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: that we do, and I think about the people who 129 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: do that work, and they're they're really inseparable. You know. 130 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: At g E we have a really really small team inside, 131 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: and then we have some fantastic partners and Giant Spoon's 132 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: a fantastic partner, and B B. D Oh and Vainer 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: and we have others that sort of come and go 134 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: at different points, and it's one family, right. I always 135 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: think of it as kind of like I definitely spend 136 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: more more more time with people and that all agency 137 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: meeting on a regular basis, and I probably do my 138 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: own family. But you've created an atmosphere where there's this 139 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: inherent respect but at the same time, and I know 140 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: you love this like tension to get to the best idea. 141 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people struggle in the 142 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: industry with this idea. Do I need one agency that 143 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: does everything? Do I need an agent one agency to 144 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: do one thing? And what does that look like? And 145 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: you've kind of created this dynamic between, like you said, 146 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: key stakeholders and then visitors depending on the project. What 147 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: was sort of the impetus in trying that, and do 148 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: your colleagues at the CMO level talk about that in 149 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: a world where the role of agency versus publisher versus 150 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: everybody else who wants a piece of the pie is 151 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: changing rapidly. I mean, I've always felt as though you 152 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: want the very best people around the table, and they 153 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: can be working at an agency, they can be working 154 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: at a analytics company, they can be working at a platform. 155 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: I've tried hard, and this part I don't think it's easy. 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: People get comfortable through. They're comfortable with and I think 157 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: diversity of thought and tension is good, not bad, which 158 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 1: is a funny thing because I'm very conflict of verse. 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: I don't like conflict. I don't like fighting. Um, but 160 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: I like that. I don't like fighting. I'm not a 161 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: good fighter. Well I'm okay fighter, But you'd rather not 162 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: deal with that. I'd rather not deal with that as 163 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: you're a good fighter. I think that when you have 164 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: people who come from different places, different perspectives, and who 165 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: are willing to kind of debate for the sake of 166 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: getting to a great place, that's what makes fantastic work. 167 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: If you're debating about the people, that's bad, right, Like, 168 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: that's where you get politics and conflict and bullshit. You 169 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: want to debate about how to get to a great place. 170 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: And that's what I feel like we do. So when 171 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: I hire people, have the opportunity to bring people on 172 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: the team. Everybody's different our team. Everybody has a different background, 173 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:07,439 Speaker 1: different perspective. But there's certain character traits. I love resiliency, 174 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, that ability to serpentine and get to yes, 175 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: get to or at least the possibility of yes, I 176 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: think exactly get to fun yes, I think is super important. Um. 177 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: The ability to win. Um. I'm friendly with Gary Vaynerchuk. Um. 178 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: I love his winning spirit. I love his desire to 179 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: figure it out. UM. I like optimism. I think that's 180 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: really important. Curiosity and people who the com Struck just 181 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: had a fantastic medium blog on this idea of the 182 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: importance of useless information. And I think people that have 183 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: lives that have done an experience and traffic in culture 184 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: or sports or gossip or E. D M or food 185 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: or fashion, and you bring those things in and that's 186 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: what makes for really interesting, right. It's those cultural touch 187 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: points that mix with innovation, that mixed with technology that 188 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: help undering twenty five year old brand, you know, stay relevant. 189 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: So I think it's those kinds of different points of view. 190 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: Maybe it's scientific, but I again, I've watched you. So 191 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: you talk about how all these people you bring all 192 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: these different people in and perspectives and you really embrace 193 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: them though, and I've watched like it's almost this amazing thing. 194 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: Like um, the founder of fur Chan, Chris Pool's great 195 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: friend and who became a really good friend of you 196 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: and a great advisor to our team at times. UM 197 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: and and a contrarian and a contrarian, but you know, 198 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: he's so thoughtful. So one of the things UM that 199 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: Chris kind of helped with was who were people out 200 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: there in kind of um Internet culture that we should 201 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: just know and talk to and not even necessarily you 202 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: work with, but here from And I think, I mean, 203 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: you guys are wonderful at this, like who do you 204 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: hear from? And how does that inform the work? And 205 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: sometimes it can be whacking And by the way, sometimes 206 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: it doesn't work right. Sometimes there's an idea out here 207 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: and you just can't pull it in even if you 208 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: want to. UM. But I you know, as a brand, 209 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: going back to the brand side, although we can talk 210 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: about people, um, embracing our interestingness or onliness whatever. It's 211 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: not going to be just our machines. You know, our 212 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: machines are right, we have the best machines in the world. 213 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: But that's not what necessarily makes the best story, that's right. 214 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: It's how other pieces come to bear that allow you 215 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: to just put on a different set of glasses, a 216 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: different lens, and approach it. And I think that's what 217 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: our partners have been able to do. And I guess, Laura, 218 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: even though I don't like fighting and I don't like conflict, 219 00:12:54,240 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 1: I am incredibly comfortable with people around the table not 220 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: being comfortable. If I know we can get to a 221 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: good place. And I think because I am collaborative by nature, 222 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: I try to pull that out of people in the 223 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: right way. Is there? So I know this has been 224 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: like a big topic of conversation and sometimes I laugh 225 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: at it and sometimes I think about it, like people 226 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: talking about the role of CMO and how it's changing 227 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: and how cmos or new this the new c I 228 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: oh is the new CMO. And I mean what your 229 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: point is is like, you can't forget the storytelling part. 230 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: You can't you forget the art part. No, you need 231 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: to capture attention and you need to capture demands, and 232 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: they're both important. I mean, you know we're at ge 233 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: like one of the top brands in the world. It's 234 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, our brand is responsible for you know, purchase decisions. 235 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: You can't take g E off a turban or a 236 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: locomotive or a wind turban and have it mean the 237 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: same thing. Now, brand open stores, brand open stores. I 238 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: think that's what's all this episode. Brand open stores. But data. 239 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: You know what's that expression of friends of mine years 240 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: ago said, um creative inspired, data informed, And I think 241 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: that's still kind of true. You know, you want an 242 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: idea to live on its idea, but how do you 243 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: not know what's knowable out there based on data? I 244 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: love that. No, what's knowable? No, what's knowable? And now 245 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: we have the ability to do it even more, much more. Yeah. 246 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: So one of the things I think that people in 247 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: this industry um A email us a lot about be 248 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: question what the hell our strategy is and see we 249 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: just tell them to wait and see. But this idea 250 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: that we are not a business that relies or has 251 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: relied on in quite some time, on programmatic We are 252 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: not a brandom speaking, we have a G that focus. 253 00:14:50,640 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: I was wondering about the way partners, thinking yes, yes, 254 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: sometimes it's hard to separate myself. You are absolutely a 255 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: family member. But one of these things where I think 256 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: that you're getting to is like data is a part 257 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: of this story, it's not the story. And we've seen 258 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: people take data and engage in bad behavior with it. 259 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: And one of the things we've talked a lot about 260 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: in our circle of beating things up and developing strategy 261 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: moving forward is that for us programmatic, when you're like, 262 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: g doesn't have an awareness problem and we're certainly not 263 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: selling you when turbines through banner ants um and we 264 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: instead pivoted left when everybody else was going right and said, 265 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: we're going to focus on attention. We're going to think 266 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: about impact, and we're going to tell this story in 267 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: ways that are new and exciting and embrace technology to 268 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: do it. A lot of people when we kind of 269 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: went out and said death to the RFP, we went 270 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: out and said, you know, we're going to spend over 271 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: eight percent of our budget and live programming not looking 272 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: up fronts looked at us up fronts. I love that 273 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: when you came in here, like we're not doing upfronts. 274 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: We're all like, thank god. But it made sense to me. 275 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: I mean maybe if our budget was, you know, a 276 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: jillion dollars and you you had to find a way. 277 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: But it's just never made sense to me that at 278 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: a time where you can market in real time, that 279 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: you'd lock your dollars in, you know, eight months ahead 280 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: of time to something that may or may not work. 281 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: There's noth Yeah, exactly, there's another point of view. But 282 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean I think together we've created I mean I've 283 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: used this expression before, sort of the the etsy of marketing, right, bespoke, 284 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: hand stitched, you know, tenderly, lovingly, carefully. Who do we 285 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: want to work with? What are they doing? What is 286 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: Mike doing or what is Aussie doing? Or what is 287 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: the New York Times or BuzzFeed or Bloomberg all great 288 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: partners at the right time for the right thing. Not 289 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: a checklist, but a really thoughtful kind of Um. What's 290 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: the opposite of a checklist, The opposite that's a smart curation. 291 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a smart creation at the time. Right. 292 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: My mom tells me, you have friends for a reason, 293 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: a season and a lifetime, and I like to think 294 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: of our media partners in the same way. I've never 295 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: heard that before. You've been holding out on me a reason, 296 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: a season and a lifetime. Yeah, I love it. So 297 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: when you go out and you make these big bets, 298 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: when you talk about we're going into live, like the 299 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: hell with the off friends, all of this stuff, like 300 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: do you get reaction from people in unexpected places or 301 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: it's kind of like everybody's like, I'm gonna watch and 302 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: see what happens over here, and I mean, are you 303 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: talking to people? It's such a good question. I cannot 304 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: remember a time in terms of or what's called our 305 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: body of work, whether it was going to live or 306 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: going on certain platforms first, or doing what you guys created, 307 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: pressing sort of you know, um before it's time. It's 308 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: still a great idea and thinking um as much as 309 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: our respect, you know, and have a ton of respect 310 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: for so many colleagues going and saying, hey, what do 311 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you think? So I trust you guys, you know, I 312 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: trust the team, I trust our partners, I trust um, 313 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: our behavioral instinct, I trust the user. I trust sort 314 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: of what's going to be appealing and if it's part 315 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: of a trend, that's good. Great. If it's not part 316 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: of a trend, who cares If it's the right thing. 317 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: And Live was so the right thing when we started 318 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: five six years ago. It was really more or less 319 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: before the onslaught of binge viewing and people saying, Okay, 320 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'm really not gonna watch television, I'm gonna 321 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 1: watch Netflix or Amazon. It was way before, and we said, 322 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: you know, for us, given that our budget is discreet, 323 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: let's go where we know there's a much greater chance 324 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: of getting people's attention in a way. Wasn't it that simple? 325 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: I can't for people to see what's next? Well, so 326 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: that was that the big question. So you were early 327 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: on in the digital space. You came from your thema 328 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: by Village, right digital native brand, Yeah, but sort of 329 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: one of the original portals. What's next? Like what's the 330 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: next big wave in marketing and advertising? It's not a wave, 331 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: it's just like how are we going to live? So 332 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: two thoughts. The first is I think it was easier 333 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: for me to come back to ge Corporate after being 334 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: at Eye Village with a different point of view because 335 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: I lived it. I lived at my Village, a site 336 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: that really was so community focused. Now it was creaky 337 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: old message boards where people were communicating with each other. 338 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't Facebook or Twitter or snap or anything else. 339 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: But it was a lesson to me that people want 340 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: to talk to each other versus just you know, look 341 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: at the pretty painting. So it was just an invaluable 342 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: lesson to kind of bring back, and I've never forgotten it, right, 343 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of behavior. Look, I think a 344 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: ton these days and maybe appropriately as we sit here 345 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: at Walking on Atlantia about audio, voice podcasting, I um, 346 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: I think we should all obsess about voice um here, 347 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: not just because we all three have sultry voices, but 348 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: because I think voice is We see it all the time, 349 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: you know, Google Home, Alexa in your kitchens, starting to 350 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: be in every room, starting to be in cars. So 351 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, what does it mean to be a brand 352 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: on voice? Right now? I think it's both late and early. 353 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: I'm hoping it's more early than it is late, and 354 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: that if you're a brand like Ge or Dove or 355 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,360 Speaker 1: City or or you know, Taco Bell or Duncan or whomever, 356 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: there's a place right now to think about what is 357 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: your agency if you will on voice? What is it 358 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: when somebody asks Alexa, Amazon Alexa or Google Home a 359 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: question um or is looking for information? Is there a 360 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: role we should or could be playing there? It almost 361 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: reminds me because I've been around too long of the 362 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: early days of search and domain and what do you 363 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: stand for? And you know who's buying what domains? So 364 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I think we need to ask ourselves as brands, what 365 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: do you stand for? On voice? And it's not all 366 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: glass half full. I mean I think voice is also 367 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: challenging for brands. You know, what's the role of brand? 368 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: If visual is stripped out? Now, I don't think it 369 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: will be by an area. I think not everything will 370 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: go to voice. But to me, that's what we should 371 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: be focused on. I think that's really important. So as 372 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: you what do you guys think, what's what's the big thing? 373 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I think that the idea of ambient 374 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: and like this always on interaction is going to happen. 375 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: We talk a ton about program life. Corbin and I 376 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: did a whole thing actually about program life that your 377 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: life essentially you're going to give AI some kind of 378 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: um decisions, right, You're going to tell them. So we 379 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: talked about this all the time. Amazon only by you know, 380 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: toilet paper disordered. My first dash buttons. Do you have 381 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: those in your house? Yeah? I just got them for 382 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 1: the first time, and i have too much toilet paper 383 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: now because I'm obsessed with just that. It comes. You 384 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: have to think about it. What spend time going to 385 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: Target just to get those little and now it's just there. 386 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: I just like the but you're getting what brand? Are 387 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: you getting? Caught? Now? That is it? And so you're 388 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: all of a sudden locked into a brand. So what 389 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: I think brands are gonna have to work harder. We're 390 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: gonna have this like amazing like opening right where people 391 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: can interact with brands from audio standpoint and an ambient standpoint. 392 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: But then you're gonna start telling you know, is it 393 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: you know Amazon essentially that you want to only buy 394 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: X or you only want to interact with X. All 395 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: of a sudden that narrows, so, you know, and so significantly. 396 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's such an interesting topic. You know, when 397 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: you make that first choice of cotton, now, you know, 398 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: does that then be come your default and you never 399 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: switch because Amazon has gotten to know you and you know, 400 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: and they recommend today, which is bizarre. I don't know, maybe, 401 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: but what about when Amazon has the Amazon brand, their 402 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: generic brand or what have you. So it feels like 403 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: it's not too far and feels like it far into 404 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: the future. The other one, you know, I think it's 405 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: always interesting to think about, you know, the zig to 406 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: the zag. So we were again having this conversation earlier today. 407 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: You know, in a world that is so ephemeral, um, 408 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: what does slow look like? And you know, there's an 409 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: appeal to slow and I you know, Live Earth great example. 410 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: You know how many people tuned in to watch the 411 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: birth of this little baby son. But but you know, 412 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: you sort of think, you know, when everything is so fast, 413 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: is there an appeal to slow? And So this is 414 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: my answer to your question. And it's more important with 415 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: attention and impact becoming increasingly narrowed and the idea that 416 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: there's presumably more content available on a daily basis that 417 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: we could possibly consume and I don't know three days 418 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 1: at this point. What does traditional medium? By that, I 419 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: mean places like print, things like terrestrial radio, out of home. 420 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm placing big bets on out of home and experiential 421 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: marketing because they are places that are devoid of noise. 422 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: And so I actually had this conversation with women from 423 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: FASCO the other day, saying they were pitching a couple 424 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: of unique ideas, and I said, I have to be honest, 425 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: this is the first time in my career I'm saying 426 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: I'm actually not interested in digital first because what you're selling? 427 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: How am I getting people there? How am I keeping 428 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: them there? Is it more compelling to get the right 429 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: audience in front of this magazine profile that is I 430 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: can touch it, I can feel it, it's undisrupted, and 431 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: so you know, these are things that we can go 432 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: around and debate till Kingdom come. But I just I 433 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that starting to think of digital as 434 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: traditional and difficult to break through on UM without the 435 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: mechanisms like targeting and live and all of these things. 436 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: Um As adds on, I think what you're describing is 437 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: human nature in some ways psychology major coming out, which 438 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: is UM, when does something become white noise? And when 439 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: it becomes white noise? Do you need to pivot somewhere else? 440 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: You know? There are times, UM where I think a 441 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: print at is absolutely fantastic, you know not, I don't know. 442 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: A month or so ago, at the Paris Air Show, 443 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: ge UM had thirty one billion with a b dollars 444 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: of orders jet engine orders, and we took out a 445 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: print ad and barance best place in the world we 446 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: could have done communicate that. I think terrestrial radio is 447 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: a great example, local example. So I think the hard 448 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: part is, you know, the pendulum is always going to 449 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: be swinging right, and I think it's where can you 450 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: stand out with um differentiation and context value and value 451 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: value exchange exactly like none of us want to be 452 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: in the business of interrupting. So I'll give you an example. 453 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: I um deliberately let my Spotify membership laps because I 454 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: wanted to hear what it was like not to be 455 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: a member. And it's gruesome and I love Spotify and 456 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: I support them. But the message I get as somebody 457 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: who's are not the premium but the normal ad supported 458 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: is don't listen to an AD. Do anything you can 459 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: not to listen to an AD. Oh, I guess you 460 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: have to listen to this AD. Now I'm exaggerating, but 461 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: it's always about It's always about this idea of you know, 462 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,959 Speaker 1: if you want to skip this ad, do x y Z. 463 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: And it's just this strange thing as a marketer that 464 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: this is all about please skip this ad. Please skip 465 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: this ad. So if it feels as though it's something 466 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: that's um bad content going to in terrupt you, none 467 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: of us want to be in that game. I think 468 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: we've made it our business to do anything. We've made 469 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: it our business to do anything. But it goes back 470 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: to that bar. What's the highest possible bar, and that 471 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: becomes our new standard. You know, I don't want to 472 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: be in the business of training people to hate advertising. 473 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: I love that. So, Linda, we talk a lot about 474 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: failure at g right. You and Beth have done an 475 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: amazing job talking about permission. We've done an amazing failing No, 476 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think, but I don't but 477 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: no neither of you. But I think that it's a 478 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: really hard thing to grasp, you know, understanding how to 479 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: succeed at failure, and like, did you have to like 480 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: train I don't want to talk about what that looks 481 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: like for you, but did you have to train yourself 482 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: to rethink? Because you you're a thinker obviously to say 483 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to stop my Spotify subscription just so I 484 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: can listen to the ads, just so I can experience 485 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: something like the B side, the different side. It is 486 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: the B side, so like and fail here's the B side, right, 487 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: it's a side we don't want to see. It's a 488 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: side we don't want to hear. How do you train 489 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: yourself to be comfortable with that? You know, Look, it's 490 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: a journey. I'm not sure anybody gets super comfortable with 491 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: it because I think many of us we're competitive, right, um, 492 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: competitive to win. I'm not competitive with other people, but 493 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: I'm really competitive when it comes to our work doing 494 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: extremely well. I'm probably competitive with a few people, but nonetheless, 495 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: So you know, the idea of embracing failure, I think, 496 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: to me, the way I try to get my head 497 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: around it is when something doesn't work, it's about interrogating 498 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: the idea, not interrogating the people. And there's a really 499 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: big difference. I actually learned that lesson from Dave Lori 500 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: on our team, who's just so he's gonna love that. 501 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: He's an amazing And he said that to me in 502 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: some meeting, right of you know, it's about the idea, 503 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: and so I think I'm gonna remind him of that 504 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: the next call we have together. But Dave, like he 505 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: rises above and I think you have to rise above 506 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: because everybody loves their idea. I love my ideas, and 507 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: I think when you make it about well, this is bad, 508 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: it's hard not to take it personally. So I think 509 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: you have to give space for it to be about 510 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: a concept. And it's a really good answer. Yeah, I mean, 511 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: I think that's sometimes it's that simple. And I think, um, 512 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: you have to have some rituals right the startups. I 513 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: know this is something I learned from Chris Pool. I 514 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: think a startup ritual or postmortems. We probably don't do 515 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: enough of that, but I think when you do them 516 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: in the right spirit, they're really healthful. Might not call 517 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: them a post Martin like, not call them a post name, please, listeners, 518 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: give us another name. So, then, of all the work 519 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: that you've done that everybody they admires, and you've put 520 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: out in the world and you've disrupted the industry, what 521 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: are some of the brands or most memorable ads that 522 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: you can recall in the last few years that you've 523 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: looked at and said, now that's changing things. You know, 524 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: there's so much good work, and yet I think at 525 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: the moment where you say what's the best, everybody says 526 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: what was the best. Um, I mean, the things stand out. 527 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: I thought the Volvo splits was really clever because, um, 528 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: it was just an original concept. Bandamn. I thought that 529 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: was clever at the time they did it. Um. I 530 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: love the Sapphire work, but I think that's a value 531 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: prop around a card more than it is total. I 532 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: think it was just a fantastic value prop when they 533 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: put it out there, and it did exceedingly well. I've 534 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: loved some of Google stuff when they've done great work. Um, 535 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, often the product just speaks for itself. But 536 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: I think they've done some some great stuff over time. 537 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you guys love. I'm so 538 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: hard on work. I'm hard on work too. I mean 539 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: I don't I think that. I mean, everybody talks about this, 540 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: but for me, I think what Red Bull has built 541 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: is so phenomenal and so right. And I think that 542 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: some of the work that they've done with like Stratos, 543 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: was genius and not replicable right by anyone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 544 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: I completely agree. I mean it was so bold. Uh 545 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: the girl uh at Wall Street? Um yeah yeah, fearless, 546 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: fearless girl to me was I know it's been overhyped, 547 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: but I thought it was simply brilliant. I read a 548 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: reporter wrote it was the one piece of marketing that 549 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: said something without having to say anything at all. And 550 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: I thought that that was a really really captivating way of, 551 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, putting something around a piece of marketing. I 552 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: think what and I talked about it way too much 553 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: at this point they should be giving me free classes. Um. 554 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: But I think what Soul Cycle has been able to 555 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: do from a brand identity standpoint without having to collaborate 556 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: or kind of step outside um from a paid standpoint 557 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: for that brand has been something that I've always admired. 558 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: I mean, two women that found a market niche and 559 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: and a product consumer need. As Alexa point on our 560 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: last episode, it's like, don't do something to make money, 561 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: do something to solve someone's problems. I know I love 562 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: that one too. You know, we talked about Spotify or earlier. 563 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: I actually think they're out of Home of South Farman 564 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: and Amy Ferris's work was just fantastic When that launched, 565 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: I thought it was just like right on the money, 566 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: such a smart use, such a exactly, such a smart 567 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: use of local and sort of finding a way to 568 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: use data to make their point. I thought that was 569 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: when they launched. I presume it's still going, although I 570 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: don't know. I thought that was really good. Yeah that's smart. 571 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah cool, So those are a couple you can I 572 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: ask one last question. Yeah, what's your like go kick ass? 573 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: If you were like I'm gonna go, what's your sound trying? 574 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: What's your song about? What soundtrack? It doesn't have ads 575 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: that we know, No, it has great ads when you're 576 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: like getting do you like if you like I'm gonna 577 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get pumped or I'm going into box someone 578 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: eminem what I love that's what I was looking for. 579 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: What I was looking for? Eminem if boxing eight mile box, 580 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: I love it. So we have to play our favorite game. Okay, 581 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: so it's good. It's very easy. What would you kill 582 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: in the world? Right? Not people, not bunnies right No, 583 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: but like what in the world of advertising marketing technology? 584 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: What would you kill? What would you buy? Because you're like, 585 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: we need this, I want this, and what would you 586 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: do yourself? Kill buy? Yeah? I y, it's like our 587 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: version of kill fuck Mary. Yeah. Kill all pop ups? 588 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: All right? Pop ups? They're dead pop ups. They're dad. 589 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: I don't know who benefits from them. By I always 590 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: want to buy the unbuyable. You know, that's the convert 591 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: That's the conversation I feel like we always have with 592 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: people in the media what's for sale? I want to 593 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: buy what's not for sale? Well we go in and 594 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: say we're gonna yeah, do so do as in start 595 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: or what's out there that you're like, I could have 596 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: done this myself. I have yet to find and you guys, 597 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: tell me if you've seen it a culture app that 598 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: works for me. So I feel like with my data exhaust, 599 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: with the amount of exhaust that I put out there 600 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: in terms of what I'm looking up and searching for, 601 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: nobody has created that definitive culture finder that says, Okay, Linda, 602 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: we know you love to read, watch, go to and 603 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 1: here it is. It's all. I have such a data 604 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: bread crime out there. It's not in a bread crumb. 605 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: It's like loaves of bread. It's a bakery. I have 606 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: a data bakery out there. So somebody can find it 607 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: and serve me absolutely fantastic content that would be worth it. 608 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: I love that, Linda. This has been so awesome friend 609 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: a mentor, Thank you so much for taking the time 610 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: and coming down such a treat happy episode. And if 611 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: people want to find you but with you know, good guardrails, 612 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: please dump on Bard. Linda call me first. How can 613 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: they get in touch with you? I look at everything 614 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: all the time. I'm Twitter, Linda boff Um, Linda dot 615 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: bof at dot com. I say that wind sing just 616 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: a teeny little bit. But I'm easy to reach, you know, 617 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:49,439 Speaker 1: Laura dot Crrente a giant sphone people. Well, Linda, thank 618 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: you so much. It might have been a pleasure, so 619 00:35:52,040 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: much fun. We'll see you tomorrow. If we weren't going 620 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: to thank anyone but still had to thank someone, we 621 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: would thank Cameron Drew's our producer, who, by the way, 622 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: is looking so comfortable. Thirteen episodes and I mean, this 623 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 1: guy looks like he's been doing this forever. It's because 624 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: we have him on tranquilizer. Deal with our craziness every week. 625 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: Other big thanks Matt Turk, who, by the way, he 626 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: finally called he'll be in New York next week. Oh 627 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: he's coming. Our executive producer, Matt Turk. Yeah. Uh, Andy 628 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: Bowers and all of our family and panoply, thank you, 629 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 1: and a special thanks to our colleagues. I think is 630 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: this is the time and place to give Thanks UM, 631 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: to our colleagues at GE who have been tremendous support system, 632 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: all the agency partners we work with UM, and certainly 633 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: Linda Bough for taking the time out of her busy 634 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: schedule to come by and hang out with us in 635 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: at Lindia. Thanks everyone, We'll be back in two weeks. 636 00:36:51,200 --> 00:37:02,479 Speaker 1: Within all new episode full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.