WEBVTT - Two Jersey Js: Blood Thicker Than Water 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.280 Hey, everyone, it's Jackie Golschneider and Jennifer Wessler. We are 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.840 two Jersey Jays. Hi. Guys, Hi, we don't have a 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.719 guest today, which I kind of love because I kind 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.760 of love just like talking to you. I do too. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:17.680 I kind of like having just this back and forth, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.880 you know. I also obviously we both love having guests. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.440 We have actually some really cool ones. Yeah, wind up, 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:24.239 Yes we do. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.360 Today it's just us. Yeah, and it's a really it's 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.960 an interesting topic, Greed agreed, a topic that both of 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.479 us actually have a lot of things to say about. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:40.440 So today's topic is family relationships, and I think a 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.839 big part of that is estrangement sometimes unfortunately, that is 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.240 a big part of it on our show right now, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:52.800 without going into any detail, there's a lot of family estrangements. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:59.080 Yes, unfortunately, And you know, I've had some estrangements within 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.200 my family. I still actually do, not personally, but family members. 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.880 I think it's just really really difficult. Sometimes it's for 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:11.480 the best, other times not so much. But you know, 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:16.000 I think that it's something that most people have either 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.760 dealt with or have had loved ones deal with, you know. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.399 And it's funny that you say that because when I so, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.160 I have like a very specific family estrangement that has 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.440 always I don't know, I waver between it bothering me 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:32.679 and it not bothering me. But I always kind of 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.240 felt like I was the only person. And now I 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.960 see how common it is, But for a long time, 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.000 I always felt like, why does everybody else get a 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.840 perfect family unit and mine is so dub Not that 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.960 my family is stup, but this relationship is so like 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.520 far gone, but I always felt like nobody else has 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.200 to deal with this, well except for me. 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:59.000 Both just did an article about family estrangements and there's 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:04.640 apparently there's a no contact family hashtag and it's garnered 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:09.400 just millions of views. So according to Psychology Today, at 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.240 least one in four people actually experience estrangements, which seems 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:14.840 like a huge number to me. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:17.840 Well, it doesn't seem that huge to me because in 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.440 my family, and like my parents are very nice people, 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.120 my mother is estranged from her sister. My father was 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.160 estranged from his brother for twenty years before his brother died, 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.920 and I have always since as far back as I 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.919 can remember, I've been a strange from my sister. Well, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.520 start talking, Oh, way to talk about it. No, no, no, 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.480 So tell me. You know, here's the difficulty. Before I 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.480 go into the I'm not going to really go out 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:46.400 of respect for my sister, I will not go into 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:51.440 like specifics of what you know has happened over the years, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.560 but like there's never been a relationship there. So there's 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.160 been aggression, there's been fighting because there's no respect or 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.239 love there. I think that would almost make it easier, right, Yeah, 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:01.880 I mean it's not hard for me on a daily basis. 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.360 I don't care. What's hard for me is knowing that 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.760 I have a living blood sister who lives in the 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.200 same state as me that I have no relationship with. 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:18.639 It's very strange to me that my children don't know her. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.119 They couldn't pick her out of a lineup. Wow, it's 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.840 weird to me, you know, And I think that's what 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.600 bothers me is more like the idea of it, not 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.200 that I actually want a relationship with her. And you 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.639 have nieces and nephews are yeah, who I love who 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.560 I'm very relationship with them. Yes, do you have a 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.000 very long story, but she doesn't have one with yours. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.360 So my which we started at the beginning. Yeah, let's 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:47.600 let's start at the start. So you know, I never 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.720 had a relationship with my sister. She's five years older 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:54.160 than me. Growing up, she really wanted nothing to do 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.400 with me. I have to believe it's her, because how 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.000 do you hate a five year old? You know, so 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.360 she she I had nothing to do and they wanted 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:02.720 nothing to do with you, Like where was your mom? 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.960 And this just never played with you. Didn't help much 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.480 older My parents worked full time and I had a 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.840 disabled brother, so I still have a disabled brother. No 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.720 that how much older is your sister? Five years? Okay, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:17.039 so nobody had time for this, like like fighting sisters nonsense, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.080 Like my parents had all because you thought that much 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:21.400 because we were so far apart in age. It wasn't 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.200 even that we would fight. It was I felt from 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.919 my perspective, it was that I was like she was 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.960 just like torture me, Like it was hell yeah, and 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:31.760 like the few times that my parents left her to 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.320 babysit me, like it just wasn't good at all. And 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.680 then when I was thirteen, we moved and she was eighteen, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.119 she moved out, so like my parents got our condo 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:46.599 just to get her the fuck out of the house 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.520 and that was it. We've hardly seen each other since, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.560 so there wasn't a big blowout. It was just we're 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.560 not close. We never have been close. We just don't 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.039 like each other. Blowout because but there was never good times. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.960 There was only blowout, so like there was no contact 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.680 and then she'd have a fight with my parents and 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.800 stick me in the middle of that fight. Now we 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:11.200 did have a fight, my mom would try to get 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.400 us together, and then the fights would be even more 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.320 explosive because it always ended in a fight, and I 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.240 just it just never worked. So there's the part of 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.240 me that so I gave up a few years ago, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.919 not interested anymore. Wasn't good for me, wasn't good for 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.760 my husband, wasn't good for our family, And I don't 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.760 there's nothing to miss, you know, it's just weird to me. 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.400 It feels weird. And here's what feels weirder is that 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:42.719 society tells you that you can never give up on family, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.160 and for a long time that made me feel like 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:51.599 I was giving up too easily. And so every few 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.360 months I would send a text message or I would 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.720 be like, do you want to try? Do you want 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.559 to meet for lunch? Do you want to and then 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.680 it just would never go anywhere, and I felt very conflicted, 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.360 like how much how do you balance this message from 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.360 society that you have to keep trying, that you don't 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.440 give up on family with this feeling that something is 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.440 just not good for you or a relationship adds nothing 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:17.239 to your life. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:19.920 And it was Yeah, I feel like that narrative, though, 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.120 has changed. I feel like there's so much that I 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.800 see on social media about you know, being you know, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.440 friends or chosen family, or when something's toxic, how to 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.919 walk away from it, including family. I feel like I 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.000 see more and more of that. You don't see that, yes. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.360 I do, but I think when it's your life and 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.799 you see how it interferes with your family dynamic, Like, look, 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.799 I'm for forty seven years old. My life is pretty 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.120 solid without the relationship with my sister in it. But 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.359 I do feel very I'm very aware of the fact 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.160 that my original family, not the family I have now. 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.120 We are never in the same room together, except if 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.760 it's like a huge occasion like someone's born mitzvah or something, 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:11.680 and then there's no contact between us. But we're in 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:16.520 the same room, but we never have family. It's interesting 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:17.120 to me that. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:22.760 So my experience with family estrangement has not been well. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.000 Depends what you define as long term, right, Like I've 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.360 gone a year without speaking to my sister. I've gone 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.840 a year without speaking to a cousin who I'm very 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:37.320 very very close to, even estrangement. Not speaking to one 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.320 of my parents for months. Is that a strangement or 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:40.760 is that just a I don't know. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:41.840 That's a break. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:47.040 But it's interesting to me because nothing specifically happened between 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.840 you and your sister. I can't imagine that both of 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.520 you haven't grown and evolved and changed, and yet you're 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.800 both nobody is like you're You're just don't feel like 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.680 you even have a yearning to talk to her or 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:03.160 have her be part of your life. And I think 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.760 that maybe because you have never been closed my periods 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:12.160 of estrangement. For instance, with my sister, I want to say, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.480 maybe over a year we didn't speak. I don't know 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.440 what's kid considered. I mean, at that point, did I 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:17.480 say we were estranged? 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:17.880 Maybe? 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.440 I don't with the dictionary what the definition of estrangement is, 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:25.800 but it I was so angry and she was so angry. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.120 Do you want to talk about It's hard. This is 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.720 hard because I don't really but I can. I can 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.720 tell you that we were always so Robin and I 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:38.320 my sister were fourteen months apart, so I am older, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.920 and I would growing up, I would terrorize her by 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:44.520 and we'd laugh about it. Now, you know. My mom 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.280 would leave us together and I'd be like, this is 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.079 a line, and I'd draw some imaginary line down the 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.360 living room. If you cross it, I will beat the 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.000 shit out of you or whatever it was. And we 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.120 were also best friends and both right, but we were 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.280 fighting and calling each other horrible names. And that was 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.679 just the nature of it, right, two girls growing up 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:09.719 in the same house, and as we got older, no 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.880 one could say anything to me that would get under 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.360 my skin as much as my sister, and I think 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.400 that's I know that that's true for her as well. 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:18.880 Right, We could really. 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:24.400 Just just strike a chord with each other anyway. We've 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.439 certainly had our share of fights. We don't really anymore, thankfully, 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.000 But whatever happened, and we didn't speak for a year, 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.360 and I just remember it being as much as I 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.320 tried to deny it, and I would say to my 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.920 mom specifically because she was so torn up about it right, 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.240 and I'm going to die one day and you're not 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.800 going to have each other. And I would say to her, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.240 I don't miss her, I don't care, I don't like her. 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.679 It's my life is complete and I don't meet her 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.040 in it. And I was lying not only to my mom, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.320 I was lying to myself because it was just this 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.599 weight that I carried around. And so, probably over a 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.319 year into our quote unquote estrangement, I got a call 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.240 from her I'll never forget it, one morning and crying 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:11.960 and something had happened and she said, I need my 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.880 sister and that was it done over, never to be 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:15.720 estranged again. 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.800 That's that's it's amazing. And it makes me sad. I 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.360 know it's sorry. No, no, no, it just makes me sad, 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:26.560 not not because of my sister specifically, but because of 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.080 the idea that people do find their way past this. 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.679 I'll tell you the very big thing, and this is 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:33.439 this is the big difference. And this is going to 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:37.400 sound very harsh, but it's true. Well we do true, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.840 So go okay. My sister and I don't love each other. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.400 And it sounds very harsh because we're in the same family, 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.680 but we've never loved each other, like I would she 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:50.080 say that as well? How she said it? Oh yeah, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.240 she can't stand me, which has to do with the 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.520 idea of me. Listen, I'm not everyone's cup of tea, 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.880 but like, she doesn't even know me. I haven't been 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.800 in a room with her. And how do you think 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.760 she watches the show? I think the first few seasons now, Listen, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.600 she participated in the first season. I remember that of 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.319 the show, but grudgingly she wouldn't allow so we did 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.040 this scene where we talked on the phone. I remember 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:19.439 that we used to toy around every once in a 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.640 while with making up, and then it would turn into 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.320 like an explosive meltdown and like everything would just fall apart. 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.760 And I would try. I really did. I would try. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:30.720 I know, I know on my end that I tried, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.480 And maybe that's why I don't feel guilty about anything, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:36.760 because I did try. But she wouldn't let them use 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.840 her voice, so it sounded like I was making a 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.480 fake phone call because she didn't want her voice on camera. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.880 I never wanted her name on camera, didn't want her picture, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.240 and that's fine, and I had to respect that, and 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.800 you know, it just never went anywhere. Nothing ever went anywhere. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.400 So it wasn't a big I mean, we've had some big, 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.400 explosive fights, but it wasn't like one penultimate kind of 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:05.360 that led to an estrangement. It was just always. I mean, 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.960 I do think that my parents made no secret of 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.000 kind of favoring me. When I was younger. I was 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.680 such a tightwad. I wanted to do everything perfectly. I 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:23.680 graduated sumacom laud from college. I went to a top 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.800 twenty five law school. I landed a huge corporate job. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.800 You know, I was a mergers and acquisitions attorney, like 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:32.800 at twenty four years old, killing it. 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.880 And I mean, it's so interesting because I don't want 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.240 to you know, I don't want to head into a 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.400 different direction right now, but like we've got to cover 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.640 that at some point my past life. Like you're a 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.360 housewipe of New Jersey from a merger's acquisitions attorney. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.840 That was. That was a hoot. That was so I'll 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:53.199 tell you the story of that one day. 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.880 But I mean, like my mother would like, you know, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.199 stand on a table and scream, my daughter's a lawyer. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.520 You know, che is really like you wish mother. She 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.360 was so proud and like that. You know, my sister 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.600 didn't go to college. She wasn't interested, and that's fine too, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.319 but like she wasn't she didn't have like much of 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.160 a work ethic or drive, And I think it was 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:21.120 hard to Your parents are so proud of your sibling, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.000 and yeah, they favor your siblings. And I think she 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.560 always that's kind of hated the idea of me. It 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:28.680 can't be me because I've never had anything to do 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.479 with her. She doesn't like the idea of me, and 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.680 and that's okay, but it's only did. 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.959 You like her at all? Like did you? I know 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.319 you say you're saying I wanted to. I really wanted 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:41.440 to about her that you enjoyed. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.680 Did you ever have fun together? Did you ever together? No? 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.040 We were never together, like a few family vacations growing up, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.280 And she was very distant from me. She was never 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.600 super social and like really had nothing to do with me. 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:02.160 Now close do you guys live now? She lives about 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.400 an hour away. Yeah, but I am very close to 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.280 their kids. My mother made sure of that. So her 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.440 kids are much older than my not much older, but 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:13.440 they're all adults now, so and I adore them and 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:14.800 they're wonderful kids. 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.200 Wow, And why don't her why don't Why doesn't she 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.560 have relationships with your kids? 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.560 So, my mother was very involved with my sister's kids 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:29.160 and not as involved with my kids, meaning like she 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.760 lived with my sister and helped her take care of them. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.840 So she would always bring my sister's kids to my house. 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:40.840 Got it. My kids and me were not welcome in 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.240 my sister's house, so we never went there. Your sister 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.160 didn't allow your kids in her house. No, we've been 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.760 there like one time. Yeah, here without you. Yeah, they've 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.320 only been there like once, I think, yeah, for a 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.120 July fourth party. I know. But it's okay, Listen, she's 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.920 not She's only shit to me. Other people lover you 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.320 know so, and she is wonderful to my brother. We 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.160 all are. We all take care of my brother. So, 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.920 but you know, it was really only in recent years 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.720 that I was like, you know what, I have to 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.520 be authentic to myself and I don't think this relationship 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.560 is good for me, and I'm not going to try anymore. 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.600 Listen, at the end of the day, I suppose what 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.680 matters is that you're happy and you are Oh yeah, I. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:30.720 Don't think about it. On in theaterday. So I'm saying, like, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.280 it shouldn't you shouldn't. I guess you shouldn't end an 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.760 estrangement because you think that it's weird or if your 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.160 life is full without that person. The person's only, you know, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.680 bringing you sadness and anger. She doesn't bring me sad 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.680 she worrett touch nothing she brings. She brings nothing. And 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.600 I you know, they have these like, you know, made 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.600 up Facebook holidays where they're like Sister Day, you know, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.640 and just I'm like, my feet is flooded with people saying, 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.880 oh God, God gives you an angel on earth and 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:03.920 it's your sister, you know. And I'm always my sister 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:05.960 and I are not angels on from it. 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.080 But I'll be like reading this shit and I'll be like, 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:19.840 how come everybody else gets a great sister. I have 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.360 a sister, a half sister. I have actually three half siblings, okay, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:28.120 and my half sister is younger than my daughter. And yeah, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.240 that's what's your relationship podcast. I mean, we don't really 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.280 have one. She I've only met her a few times. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.120 She lives in another state, and I don't want to 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.560 talk too much about this, but so I don't know her. Well, 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:43.800 it's it's bizarre. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.400 And you know, while she was growing up and my 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.200 dad was calling to tell me that she got a 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.200 green belt in karate, I was like, so did your granddaughter? 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:54.000 You know? 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.040 So it's it was just strange and only was good 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.120 things for her. It's just it's been is a very 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:02.680 unique circumstance. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.119 Does she live close? No, No, she doesn't. You have 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.800 three half siblings. I have three half siblings. Okay, so 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:12.760 do they all have the same mom? 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.960 Noh, so my sister and I have the same mother 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.639 and father, my old sister whoever you want to say that, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.080 and the other three half siblings all have the same 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.600 father as I do. Yeah, but you know, I've been 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:32.280 through periods of estrangement from my father. I've been, as 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.520 I've mentioned before, my one of besides my sister, the 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.399 hardest strangements that I've dealt with has been with a 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:46.520 cousin and we didn't speak for a year and a half, which, 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.639 again I don't know what that qualifies, but it's for me, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:55.080 it felt like that over politics. Really, yes, And I 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.680 look back at it now and I can't believe that 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:04.240 we got to that point and that was a situation 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:09.240 like my sister, but with my cousin where it was brutal. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.600 I missed her every day. You know my sister too. 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.280 But my sister and I were arguing over personal issues 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.280 and I was so this was so we said things 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:24.000 that were hurtful to each other. And as soon as 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.359 I picked up the phone, it was her birthday, and 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.400 I was just I couldn't do it anymore. I picked 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.480 up the birthday, I picked up the birthday, I picked 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:31.920 up the phone and I called her on her birthday 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.840 and immediately it was over within two seconds. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.200 You know. Yeah, well that's because there was a foundation. Yes, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:39.359 there's lots, that's true. 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.520 I guess that's the different And we also people get 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.400 a strange not just for the reason that they were 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.040 never close or that they had a fight. It's because 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:51.399 relationships are toxic or you know, somebody's abusive, right, And 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:53.600 it doesn't mean the other person is toxic, it's just 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:54.960 that relationship that's toxic. 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.199 Now, let me just preface all of this by saying that, like, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.920 I don't want to take my part out of it. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.639 I do feel like I've tried over the years, but 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.159 when we have fought, I've also played my part. So 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.560 that's one thing I'm not going to absolve myself. I 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:10.919 so like I have gotten when we have fought, I 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.399 have gotten nasty myself. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.879 She listens to the podcast, which sounds she probably doesn't. 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.399 I'm a real fucking softy. So if she does, and 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.680 if she called me, I promise you like our fight 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.919 would end, it will never happen. It will never happen. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.680 I've been It's been forty years of like efforts and 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.360 like nothing. I don't even know that I wanted anymore. 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.119 But is she called, she will But if she did, 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.520 if she did, yeah, but she's not going to I 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:38.480 guess never going to happen. I just I think it's 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.399 interesting and I do you know, it's so funny in 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.240 the past few years. I know, I talk about recovery 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.399 a lot, but like my mindset on a lot of 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.560 things has changed. I know a lot of people we're 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.320 not going to talk about the show. A lot of 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.639 people think that I have very like different reasons for 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.840 my relationships shifting. It's really that I'm in a place 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.600 where I know what feels good to me and what doesn't, 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.040 and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I'm going 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:03.720 to do what authentically feels good for me. If you 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:04.000 want to. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.919 Assign different reasons to it, that's fine. That's what these 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:09.880 shows are for, so that people can have an opinion 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.760 and talk about it. Right But I know that I 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:18.000 am doing things that feel authentically good to me, and 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.720 right now, I'm not interested in trying anymore, which is 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:28.040 very hard because, like I said, society tells you family 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.960 over everything. It's different also your relationships on the show, 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.640 they're friendships, and there's a big difference. It feels very 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.280 different from me when I've been a strange from friends, 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.360 and I am a strange from friends, not many of them, 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.879 but a couple in terms of my life, as opposed 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.840 to being a strange from family and the estrangements I've 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.359 had from family. It's they've played on me, right, They're 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.800 like always with me. It's like even when everything feels great, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:02.119 there's a loss. When everything feels there's a loss. 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.560 And I don't know if that is about blood, and 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.400 I don't think that everyone feels that way. I think 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.719 there's there are abusive family relationships that people are not 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.520 only smart to get rid of, but also feel probably 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:20.000 simply relief, but the relationships that I've had in terms 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.760 of friendships that are now estranged, they don't play on me, 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:25.960 you know. There of course, there might be moments of 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.080 sadness or moments of anger, or moments of you know, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:33.440 sentimentality looking back. But the family, the family ones, they 0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:35.680 were just with me. I felt it all the time, 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:37.200 different from you and your sister. 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:40.000 Right because because I said, like the foundation that was there. 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:41.960 But then I look at the other relationships in my life, 0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.119