1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hello, this is Annie and this is Bridget and you're 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. And today it's 3 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: finally time, finally to talk about fan fiction. Finally. It 4 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: feels like such a long time coming. It really does, it, 5 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: doesn't it. Yeah, I was telling Bridget before this we 6 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: started recording, it's just been coming up a lot and 7 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why, but it seemed right, it seemed 8 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: like we had to talk about it. And do you 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: want to have this disclaimer right at the top. We're 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: totally aware that fandom can be toxic, and it absolutely 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: can be extremely toxic, and we will touch on elements 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: of that here in this episode. We're definitely gonna talk 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: about it more in depth in a future episode. Today 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: we're focusing mainly on fan fiction and a little bit 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: of fan art, but mostly fan fiction. So for folks 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: out there who don't know what fan fiction is, what 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: is it? Sometimes called fan fic or f f fan 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: fiction is writing typically done by amateur but not always writers, 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: and fans parts the work of other works, usually but 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: not always works of fiction. So you're kind of in 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: the fan fiction world. We call it playing in someone 22 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: else's sandbox. And if you haven't surmised. I have a 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: lot of experience with fan fiction. Tell us more about 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: your experience with fan fiction, Annie, have you ever written 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: any fan fiction? I have written some fan fiction, probably 26 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: as soon as the Internet was available to me. I 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: had a friend shout out Katie Um who introduced me 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: to fan fiction. I read mostly Harry Potter, Lord of 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: the Rings, some Star Trek, some X Files. I guess 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: I dabbled all over the place, but Harry Potter was 31 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: my big one. Later I got into like Supernatural and 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: Star Wars, but I wrote one for I wrote I 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: think a couple of Harry Potter ones. I wrote a 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Star Wars one that one was the worst, and a 35 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: Peter Pan one and a Lord of the Rings one. 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: So yeah, I have quite a bit of experience. What 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: about you, Bridget Have you ever read any fan fiction? 38 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: I have not written any. I have read some. I'm 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: a I'm a I guess you could call me an appreciator. Yeah. 40 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: I think I think it's cool that people express themselves 41 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: via fan fiction and fan art. I think fandom is cool. 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: I feel a bit left out of nerd fandom because 43 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: I am solidly like not in the mix on most 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: of it, except for X Files fandom maybe like xpils 45 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: a lot um So there are a few things, but 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: for the most part, I feel a bit left out 47 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: of like nerdy sci fi fantasy fandom, but I am 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: a major appreciator of it. From afar. Yes, I'm a 49 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: fandom fan because I think I am just fascinated by 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: folks who expressed their love of different things via art 51 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: and cosplay and meticulous recreations and you know, expanding out 52 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: a universe to make it, you know, what they want 53 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: to see. I think that's really cool. So I'm you 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: could call me a fan um fan um you just 55 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: write fan fiction about fanfiction. Doing the research on this episode, 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: while being one of the most delightful experiences of research 57 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: I've ever ever gotten to do luckily for work, also 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: made me appreciate fan fiction a lot more. It made 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: me respected a lot more. So we we've touched on fandoms. 60 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: Fan fiction is made up of fandoms like books, TV shows, movies. 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: You can't even have a real person fiction r p 62 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: F as it's sometimes called based on celebrities. And I 63 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: know some of our how Stuff Works colleagues have featured 64 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: in some fan fiction. Maybe we have Bridget. I don't know. 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: Is there any Bridget fan fiction there could be? I 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: love to read it. Here's a challenge for you pretty 67 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: much anything you can't imagine. But one misconception to get 68 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: out of the way right up front is fan fiction 69 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: is not full on adoration of whatever fandom. Often it's 70 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: a critique and or subversive and almost always pushing past 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: boundaries and breaking rules. We've talked about the Barrier Gage show. Before. 72 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: Fan fiction was a place for people to course correct 73 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: tropes like that, to find representation in fandoms they loved 74 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: but we're vastly ignored in, or to write that representation themselves. 75 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: It was a place for l g b t q 76 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: I stories that were anonymous and where you were generally accepted. 77 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: This is actually where some of my fandom fandom comes in. 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: I really enjoy reading kind of lgbt q I reimaginings 79 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: of different stories. I definitely read some good Gilmore Girls 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: fan fiction. Wherein do you ever watch Gilmore Girls? Okay, 81 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: so I've seen every episode twice, multiple times, usually more 82 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: than twice. But it was a pretty Actually I didn't 83 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: really like the show towards the end, but I kept 84 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: watching it but one of the characters on the show Rory, 85 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: she has one of those sort of three main boyfriends, 86 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: and the question is always like, oh, do you like Logan, 87 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: do you like just do you like Dean? And I 88 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: enjoy fan fiction where she doesn't date any of them, 89 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: but in fact falls in love with her best friend Paris. 90 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: So I I really appreciate fan fiction that reimagines characters 91 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: as living in the queer identities. I feel they should 92 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: be rightfully living. Oh, absolutely of curiosity. Have you ever 93 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: read ash? I have not. It is reimagining of Cinderella 94 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: with two women as the lovers. Oh is the woman 95 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: a princess? Yes? Put that on my list. Yeah, And 96 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: that is an example, and we're going to talk more 97 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: about this later. But of like actual fan fiction that 98 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: has been published, sort of depends on how you define 99 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: fan fiction. But anyway, so fan fiction, especially when we're 100 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: talking about the online the Internet, can be multi chaptered 101 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: or it could be a stand alone sometimes called a 102 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: one shot. It could be a drabble, which is a 103 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: couple of hundred words, but they're generally, on average about 104 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: twenty thousand words, or at least the best reviewed ones are. 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: I just remembered I did write some fan fiction. Oh 106 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: stop everything, tell me more, Bridget it was. This is 107 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: gonna sound absurd, No, it was Remember the Babysitters Club. 108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: It was. It was Babysitters Club, Mallory and Jesse all 109 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: grown up, living in Brooklyn and having a relationship together. 110 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that doesn't sound absert at all. I 111 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: just kind of thought, so if you listen, if you've 112 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: read the Babysitters Club books, Jesse and Mallory are like 113 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: the junior Babysitters are not actual members of the BSc, 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: not yet because they're younger, but they're always sort of 115 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: mentioned in tandem. And Mallory is clearly a lesbian. Like 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: it's very clear. They could not have made it any clearer. 117 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: Homegirl lives in like an Oxford, you know, Like it's 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: very clear to me. Um, And so yeah, I always thought, like, 119 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't it be cool if Mallory and Jesse grew up 120 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: and moved to Brooklyn and Jesse worked at a dance 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: nonprofit and Mallory was a writer for Slate. Wouldn't that 122 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: be cool? I think it would be. Do you still 123 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: have access to this? God? Oh well, this is embarrassing. 124 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: I blocked this out, untild this and told this very moment, 125 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: we're having kind of an intervention thing right now. I 126 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: want to when did you write it? Not that long ago, 127 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: like two years ago? Oh my gosh, I thought it 128 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: would make a funny series. I'm so on board. All right, 129 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: Maybe we're gonna revisit this episode at a later date 130 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: and we'll both share a little taste. Fan fiction taste, 131 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: fan fiction taste, and not to embarrass our producer to Dylan, 132 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: but he also wrote a fan fiction. He doesn't have 133 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: his headphones on. He won't hear to you, I know, 134 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: but he will hear this later. He's editing it. He 135 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: wrote one bro, I don't know if you remember Arthur 136 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: the animated. Yeah, he's an art park. He's an ant eater. 137 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, Now I'm having doubts about it. I always 138 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: thought he was an art park because when he's in 139 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the Spelling Bee he spells art bark so like enthusiastically. 140 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: Oh my god, he's an art VARKA. I don't think 141 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: he was an ant eater. I don't know, Bridget, I 142 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: don't know. But Dylan wrote a fan fiction about Arthur 143 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: and a friend of his getting stuck in an ice 144 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: cream shop and eating ice cream together, which I thought 145 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: was very cute. I've read some fan fiction that are 146 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: over a hundred chapters, some that are less than one 147 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: hundred words. Genre rise. They're usually a mix of action, adventure, 148 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: romance in a way that a lot of traditional media 149 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: cannot be. The chapter ones are like old school TV 150 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 1: shows or even maybe a podcast per se, where maybe 151 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: the author has a day each week they published or 152 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: try to publish in the meantime. You just I remember 153 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: just being like, Oh, I can't wait till the chapter 154 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: comes out. I hope this happens. This allows the writers 155 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: to learn and adapt from readers as they go and 156 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: create a product that appeals to a wider audience because 157 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: there is a comment and review function, So it really 158 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: sounds like an expression of community kind of standom where 159 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: people are excited to read more and they give feedback 160 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: about what they want, and so it's kind of a 161 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: collaborative project in a kind of way. Yeah, and that's 162 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: that's a big, not really point of contention, But some 163 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: people say that published works of fan fiction aren't really 164 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,599 Speaker 1: fan fiction because they're lacking in that community aspect and community. 165 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: It's so important to fan fiction, and if you're one, 166 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: drink kind of like, why are they talking about fan 167 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: fiction on stuff Mom never told you other than I 168 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: love it. Clearly, the community that writes and reads fan 169 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: fiction is mostly women are non binary. We're going to 170 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: talk about that later in the podcast, but just know 171 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: in the back of your mind that this is mostly 172 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,239 Speaker 1: a female community and the breakdown is is really fascinating. 173 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: But first we're gonna take a quick break for word 174 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: for a sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. That 175 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about some lingo because I love 176 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: some fan fiction lingo. You've got a U, which stands 177 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: for alternate universe O O C are out of character 178 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: o C, which is original character cannon, staying within the 179 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: confines of what the fandom has laid out. Usually that 180 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: means relationship wise slash, which we're going to talk about 181 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: a lot later, and it refers to a noncanon couple 182 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: of the same set, usually male females denoted by film 183 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: slash impreg male pregnancy crossover when two fandoms crossover for 184 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 1: the for research. For actual research on this episode, I 185 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: read a Harry Potter and Avengers crossover and it was 186 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the best. I was so happy. I got curtain thick, 187 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: which is a genre of fan fiction that focuses on 188 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: domestic situations like say Kirk and Spocker out shopping for curtains, 189 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: Like it would never happen on the show, but people 190 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: like to imagine what it would be like. I love that. Yeah, 191 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: there's hurt comfort. That was one of my favorite things. 192 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: Hc race bending when characters are either whitewashed are reclaimed 193 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: for minorities. It could be could go either way. Gender 194 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: swap when you swap genders of characters UST which I 195 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: use in real life, unresolved sexual tension ship which you 196 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: can hear probably a lot outside of fan fiction to 197 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: ship a couple. And we talked about Mary Sue and 198 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: self insert in our Star Wars episode. So those are 199 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: some of the some of the big ones write the glossary. 200 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, there's so many more, And like if 201 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: we narrow the focus even even more to fandoms, they 202 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: have a lot of their own lingo within fandoms. So, 203 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: like I already mentioned on the show, once desty L 204 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: from Supernatural, that's Dean and Castile and Harry Potter, you 205 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: had snape, Harry was snary, Truemiana is Draco, Hermione are 206 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: dreary Draco. Harry had a competition with a friend of 207 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: mine to find the most rare couple in all of 208 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: HP fandom, and I found never long bottom and memberless Membletonia, which, 209 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: if you don't remember, is a plant that he carries 210 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: around and the story Neville gets transformed into a plant 211 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: and they fall in love. But she found one that 212 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: was between Harry Potter and the Giant Squid. Rule thirty four. 213 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: You can find sexually related or pornographic material for pretty 214 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: much everything, including Harry Potter fiction. Oh absolutely, And if 215 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: anyone has this beat, please right in. But I would 216 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: like to know. It's a popular misconception that most fan 217 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: fiction is weird and pornographic. Most of it is not 218 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: at all, not at all, And speaking of Harry Potter, 219 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: it is often credited with bringing fan fiction more mainstream. 220 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: Fan fiction dot Net, which was where I went when 221 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: I was getting my fan fiction, has almost eight hundred 222 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: thousand Harry Potter stories. Yeah, there's a lot of Harry 223 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: Potter fan fiction writers out there. Yeah. Back in my heyday, 224 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: every night I would check so I mean, it's kind 225 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: of like search results, and I would just go through 226 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: every new page a fan fiction of the day, and 227 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: it was usually over thirty pages of new fan fiction 228 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: in one day. Yeah, newer, updated, Yeah. Oh. And in general, 229 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: fan fiction is free. What Pad does have a premium 230 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: ad removed service, but for the most part totally free. 231 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: And we are mostly talking about online fan fiction, but 232 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: fan fiction exists in several recognized forms of art and business. 233 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: The creator and showrunner relationship is a good example. Once 234 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: the original greater has left. I think Aaron Sorkin once 235 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: famously said, like, you couldn't watch the West Wing after 236 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: he left, or you've got the officially sanctioned Star Wars authors, 237 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: So tell me more about that, as as our resident 238 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: Star Wars expert. Yes, so, I guess it's Disney Disney 239 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: on Star Wars now, but Disney kind of picks an 240 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: author to write the books that they consider official canon 241 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: for Star Wars, and yes, so they kind of are 242 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: just writing fan fiction published work. We'll talk a little 243 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: bit more about that later because it's sort of an 244 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: interesting dynamic, A big trend in fan fiction right now. 245 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: Our stories written by teens that more accurately reflect their lives. 246 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: So when you were explaining, I'm very interested by your 247 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: fan fiction because it showcases a lot of things that 248 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: we are going to touch on, but particularly right now, 249 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: teens are writing about the prevalence of social media and technology. 250 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: Maybe putting that too, Like I've seen so many Harry 251 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: Potter gets Facebook and what happens Jenny Weasley, It's very 252 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: upset that Harry Potter leaves I emojis under some random 253 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:10,599 Speaker 1: girls Instagram as she should stuff like that. Yeah, that 254 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: actually again, that's that's a bit like curtaining the curtain. Curtain. Yeah, 255 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: it's a reimagining of something that would never be in 256 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: the books, that would never be a plot line in 257 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: the book. But it's interesting, right, and it kind of 258 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: goes to show what fan fiction is really about, which 259 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: is sort of exploring certain aspects of yourself and your life. 260 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: According to Publishers Weekly, what Pad, which is a user 261 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: generated storytelling app, reached eighteen million users in the space 262 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: of seven years, and this translated to sixty four thousand 263 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: stories getting updated per day and twenty three million stories 264 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: a year. The number of users rose to thirty five million, 265 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: with forty five percent of those in the age rage 266 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: of thirteen eighteen, some classrooms have started using fan fiction 267 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: as a writing exercise now. Of note though, about what 268 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: pod this is specifically, Of all of the places where 269 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: you can find fan fiction, it does kew a lot younger, 270 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: and it is a lot of one direction stories, like 271 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: real celebrity stories, so it's a little bit different than 272 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: most of the other ones that we're going to talk about. Well, 273 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: as a former teacher, I absolutely love the idea of 274 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: using fan fic to teach writing classes for young people. 275 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: And that was something that I did in my classrooms 276 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: quite a bit, where if us, if students won't get 277 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: out their cell phones or don't get off social media, 278 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: can you find a way to integrate with they're already 279 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, loving and enjoying and what they're not paying 280 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: attention to your boring lecture to do instead? Can you 281 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: find a way to marry those two things? And so 282 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: I love, love, love the idea of using fan fic 283 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: as a writing tool, because it's just meeting young people 284 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: where they're already at. If the fan fiction universe is 285 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: being dominated in small parts by young folks, educators would 286 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: be you know, remiss to not capitalize on that. Because 287 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: it's writing. It's just another way that shows that young 288 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: people are fired up about writing, so you may as 289 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: well turn it into a curriculum. Absolutely. Another big fan 290 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: fiction site, Archive of Our Own or AO three, had 291 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: over four hundred thousand users generating over one million seventeen stories. 292 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: And I, like I said, I was a fan fiction 293 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: dot net person. And DV and Art, which is more 294 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: fan art and illustrations Coming Full is another site where 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: that has a visual component that's really kind of unique 296 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: and often beautiful. So if you're interested, I would absolutely 297 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: speak it out. In his Time article, Lev Grossman, author 298 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: of The Magicians trilogy, described fan fiction in the context 299 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: of mainstream culture as quote what literature might look like 300 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: if it were reinvented from scratch after a nuclear apocalypse 301 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: by a band of brilliant pop culture junkies trapped in 302 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: a sealed bucker. That's so good. I know it's really good. 303 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: And he was speaking as a fan, but he acknowledges 304 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: how strange and extreme fan fix might seem to the 305 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: outside observer, particularly the outside celebrity as observer who might 306 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: be a bit weirded out by it. Yeah, as you 307 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 1: might be able to guess all authors or creators are 308 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: on board with this, some of them are buzz kills. 309 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: For example, in author Marian Zimmer Bradley, who broadly encouraged 310 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: fan fiction, but when one of her upcoming novels closely 311 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: paralleled a fan fiction she read, she attempted to negotiate 312 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: a deal with the author to avoid a lawsuit. Now 313 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: in the end, Bradley abandoned the novel. Other authors like 314 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: Anne Rice and mcafree and George R. R. Martin have 315 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: publicly denounced fan fiction for this reason. As the Internet 316 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: has grown older, a lot of authors have softened their stance. 317 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: And and I were joking earlier off Mike about how 318 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: we wanted to do fan fiction about and Rice, because 319 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: apparently an Rice is notoriously litigious and if you try 320 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: to knock off her intellectual property, she'll basically be at 321 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: your door with a lawsuit in her hands. So what 322 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: if we did fan fiction about and Rice hunting down 323 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: she's a fan fiction hunters, a fan fiction hunter. I 324 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: think it will work. Yeah. She posted like a really 325 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: intense note about like, you have to trust me on this. 326 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: You not. You cannot post fan fiction if you look today. 327 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: If we went to fan fiction dot net, you would 328 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: find no and rice fan fiction. They won't host it. 329 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: And fan fiction is frequently looked down upon, mostly because 330 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: of some high profile ones being made into books and 331 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: movies that are also generally looked down upon, But either way, 332 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: it's popularity is growing. Even Amazon has a fan fiction 333 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: website now that lets authors published and receive royalties from 334 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: e books from popular license series like Vampire Diaries. They 335 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: kind of have a relationship with these companies producing these series. 336 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: The Washington Post wrote, what used to be a disregarded 337 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: copyright nightmare is a new, youth friendly approach for publishers. 338 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: Independent publisher Big Bang Press was founded solely on finding 339 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: new voices in fan fiction to write their own fiction novels, 340 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: and while getting published is nice, it's not really the goal. 341 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: One of the most common arguments against writing fan fiction 342 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: is essentially, go write your own thing. You'll never succeed 343 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: as a writer with a fan fiction, But most people 344 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: who write it are not thinking they're going to be 345 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: a published writer one day. That's That's like saying people 346 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: who play football are doing so thinking that they're going 347 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: to go pro one day. It's a hobby. It's something 348 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: that people enjoy doing that's carthartic and satisfying, but most 349 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: people are not like thinking, if only I write best 350 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: fan fick, I'll get published, although some authors do use 351 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: it to like stay up to snuff. Do you think 352 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: that one of the reasons why it's so looked down 353 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: upon is because it's so heavily dominated by women and 354 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: non binary people? Oh yes, and we are going to 355 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: talk about that because there's a there's an entire article 356 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: that I'm going to reference it later, but it's called 357 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: when men write fan fiction. It's seen as academic. Of 358 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: course it is right, but I definitely think there is 359 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: an element to that. And I, as someone who is 360 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: pretty nerdy and tapped into nerd culture, I used to 361 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: get really angry when I was younger about how it's 362 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: so accepted to be in a sports fandom and I 363 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out the difference. And then when I was 364 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: researching this, I had a moment of all, sports is 365 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: a very highly masculine fandom, and nerd media fandom is 366 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: still kind of machlum, but it's way less. So that's 367 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that I think that we just 368 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: accept sports fandom, but we don't do the same with 369 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: media fandom, and I think beyond that, you see that 370 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: with so many different kinds of fandom and writing, Like 371 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: in the episode we did around journaling. Because journals are 372 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: associated with femininity, they're seen as un serious. But then 373 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: when a man writes one, it is seen as like 374 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: his writings, his papers. But its female authors, even very 375 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: famous authors, you know, Sylvia Plath, e Lee Dickinson, their 376 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: journals are thought of as their sort of frivolous diary. 377 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,959 Speaker 1: But men their papers or they're collected writings. You know 378 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: that it's seen differently. And I think it's I think 379 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: fandom is just like any other thing where when there 380 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: is a male association, it's sort of highbrow, and that's 381 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: it's a woman doing it. It's just an un serious 382 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: thing and you should just quit. Why are you doing 383 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: this anyway? Yeah, And I can think of two examples 384 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: I ran across doing this research of that. One is 385 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: the Beatles. Before, like when it was just a bunch 386 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: of fan girls that were mooning over this band, they 387 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: were looked down upon. But then when men were like, 388 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, actually these albums are pretty good, then it 389 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: became like Beatlemania totally acceptable and Another example is Brownies 390 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: because I loved my little Ponies, as did a lot 391 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: of women for a long time, but it wasn't until 392 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: dudes were like, you know what, I really like my 393 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: little ponies. I'm gonna dress up. I'm gonna be at 394 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: Brownie and then it became legitimate and cool and nerdy. 395 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: Before that it was like lame. And now you see 396 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: that at conventions like Brownies. So once again, when it 397 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: was a largely female fandom, it was not cool at all. 398 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: And then when men came in and legitimized it, now 399 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: cool Brownies. And not to disparage on Brownie's more power too, 400 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, culturally, it shows where we're where 401 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: we're at when it comes to those kind of things. 402 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: More on all of that later, but let's talk a 403 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: bit about some some famous examples of published fan fiction. 404 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: Because it did. Fan fiction did used to come with 405 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: this risk of a cease and desist letter. And if 406 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: you write about and Rice, then yes, you still gotta 407 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: be Look he's gonna put you down. It'll be and 408 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: Rice like at your door. Yes, hello, it's an Rice. 409 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: I know your home. I like a book. Rice. She's 410 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: behind you. She knows. She knows all in my time, 411 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: and I'm sure still now. At the top you always 412 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: put like disclaimer, I don't know the powers that be 413 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: oh and everything actually do anything or is it just so? 414 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure it doesn't, but it's supposed to be like, well, 415 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: maybe this will soften them if they find it. I'll 416 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: be like, well, at least she acknowledges there are these 417 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: powers that be that own it. But nowadays you very 418 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: well might have read a fan fiction even known it. 419 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: We've mentioned before E. L. James, whose Twilight fan fiction 420 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: became the fifty Shades of Gray series, and this is 421 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 1: probably the biggest one. It's estimated that at one million copies, 422 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: it out sold Twilight, the work it was based on. 423 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: I have to ask a dumb question, how is it 424 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: a fan fiction when it doesn't involve vampires? Well, so E. L. 425 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: James deleted the original fan fiction once she got published, 426 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: but there you can still find people who have like 427 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: saved it and you can read it. And she just 428 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: swapped out the name, so it used to be Edward 429 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: and Bella and now it's Christian and Anna. I'm not 430 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: sure how much the vampire thing came up in the 431 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: original fan fiction, but the characters were essentially the same, 432 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: and I believe that side by side comparison showed she 433 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: only changed five percent. Yes, so probably just the names. 434 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: And this has brought up a lot of questions of 435 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: legality and calls a lot of concern about the end 436 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: of good writing and original work as we know it. 437 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: As one writer at The Washington Post put it, the 438 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: most handlest part of Fifty Shades of Gray isn't what 439 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: Christian Gray does behind closed doors, is that the book 440 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: might well be an illegal art. And I know the 441 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: author of Twilight has kind of She's never come out 442 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: against it per se, but there's definitely an air of 443 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: like she kind of wrote her own fan fiction on Twilight, 444 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: which is interesting, can you write your own fan fix? 445 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: Would she abandoned a project that was essentially a retelling 446 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: of the first one from Edward's point of view, and 447 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: she kind of made it sound like it was because 448 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: the Fifty Shades of great at least in one interview 449 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: I read, it does have to chap her ask that 450 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: Fifty Shades of Gray is more popular than Twilight. Oh, sure, absolutely. 451 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: You've also got Cassandra Claire's The Mortal Instruments, which was 452 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: originally a Harry Potter fan fiction, and I I remember 453 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: seeing that. I never read it because I was never 454 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: into Gremianny fan fiction. I had very specific things I 455 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: would read and that wasn't one of them. But I 456 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: remember seeing that one getting updated pretty pretty consistently. Anatod's 457 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: After which was based on a one direction and fiction 458 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: Pride and Prejudice and Zombies of course, Wide Sargasso c 459 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: by Genres, which I read in graduate school, and seminar 460 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: on women's writing. So yeah, I was taught fan fiction 461 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: when I was trying to get a PhD. It is 462 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: being taught in the academic setting a lot of There's 463 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: so many examples like that, like Wicked by Gregory McGuire, 464 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: it's essentially a Wizard of Os fan fiction, or Roger 465 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: and Hammerstein South Pacific, which is the only musical to 466 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: win a Pulitzer based off of a work that also 467 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: won a Pulitzers. Yeah, but again there are some There 468 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: is some debate about whether these count because the community 469 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: isn't necessarily there that of curiosity. What's your take on 470 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: that divide? I feel like these do count as fan fiction, 471 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: but there is a part of me that almost wants 472 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: to like classify it differently, if that makes sense, because 473 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: the community is a big part of it. Yeah. I 474 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: don't know. I would count most of this as fan 475 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: fiction honestly personally, but I do think it's missing that 476 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: that community part, that part that is so collaborative. You've 477 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: also got a series of James Potter novels, sort of 478 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: Harry Potter sequels by George Lippard that j K Rolling 479 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: has more or less been like, yep, okay, cool. You've 480 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: got Meg Cabot and Neil Gaiman who have dabbled in 481 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: fan fiction, or Hamilton's, which is sometimes compared to fan fiction. 482 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about Hamilton's, it kind of 483 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: is fan fiction. It's taking this very familiar story that 484 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: pretty much everybody knows and completely spinning it on its head. Yeah. 485 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: There's a whole article about it on box and it 486 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: was quite a lovely read. Here's a quote from it. 487 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: In essence, Hamilton's is a postmodern, meta textual piece of 488 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: fan fix functioning and precisely the way that most fan 489 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 1: fix do. It claims the cannon for the fan in 490 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: this case, Hamilton's canon is history and the fan Miranda 491 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: is doing a lot more than simply adapting it. Like 492 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: the best fan pick writers, He's not just selectively retelling history, 493 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: He's transforming it. That was a that was a good 494 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: quote in the article. Enjoyed a lot of it. Also, 495 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: Teens south By Southwest saw the premiere of a movie 496 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: called Slash, which was supposed to be about a teenager 497 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,479 Speaker 1: exploring his sexuality through erotic slash fan fiction. But from 498 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: what I read, it really didn't have much to do 499 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: with slash fiction after all, and it got most of 500 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: what did have to do with it pretty wrong. It 501 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: was very erotic and weird, which that does exist, but 502 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: again it's the outlier. Most fan fiction is curtain fic. 503 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: I wonder where that misconception around fan fiction comes from, 504 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: that it's all you know, erotic or sexualized or pervy 505 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: or you know, wh Where do you think that comes from? 506 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: I think it it kind of goes back to that 507 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 1: it's mostly women writing fan fiction. A lot of it 508 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: does have perhaps slash, but in a lot of those 509 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: slash stories, like they're buying curtains, you know, like maybe 510 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: there's sex, maybe there isn't, and maybe if there is sex, 511 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: it's very like tame. I think it's a misunderstanding that 512 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: all these women are writing about sex, so it must 513 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: be weird. And yeah, there's a lot of misconception about that. 514 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: I was someone who really enjoyed like slash that never 515 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 1: had any sexual things, just slashed the relationships like, oh 516 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: they're they're close. Look that's intimate. Yeah I like this. 517 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: I like this, And a lot of times I would 518 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: get to a certain like say, I I'll read nineteen 519 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: chapters and then chapter twenty they have sex. I would 520 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: just like skip that that. And you did this when 521 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: you were in a teenager. Yeah, you're the only teenager 522 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: out there skipping the sexy parts. I'm like this, this 523 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: isn't for me. A lot of times I really appreciated it, 524 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: because a lot of authors would put like, if you're 525 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: not into sex, this chapter is not that important, you 526 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: can skip it, and I was, I was like done, 527 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: thanks for the warning. I really like the and fan 528 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: fiction did for better or wors play a role in 529 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: learning about sex for a decent amount of as me 530 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: included or learnings fan fiction you taught me some things. 531 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: An article in Vice deald into this how fan fiction 532 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: served as a tool of sexual exploration, especially for women 533 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: in lgbt Q who might not get much of a 534 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: sex education or see themselves represented in media. Yeah, me 535 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: and more than one of my friends definitely learned about 536 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: sex from fiction. I remember this per sex fan fiction 537 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: because again used to print them out and so I 538 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't know that was coming. And surprise, surprise to characters 539 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: are having sex and I'm trying to understand what's going on, 540 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: young Annie with her printed out fan fiction. Oh yeah, man, 541 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: I wonder if I still have that stuff. I should look. 542 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: Most sites do have rating systems, like the m p 543 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: A almost and you can as some of them, especially 544 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: like geared towards a younger audience. Do you have settings 545 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: that you can set up so that you can prevent 546 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: children from getting exposed to some of those things if 547 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: that's something you're worried about. Some of them are less 548 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: effective than others. But some sites don't allow adult material, 549 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: and I kept getting a chuckle out of they would 550 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: say fan fiction dot net, because there is adult fan 551 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: fiction dot net. But that's where I stumbled onto my 552 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: sexy Lord of the Rings And just think you'd be 553 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: if you hadn't done that. Who knows what you'd be 554 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: I'd be lost, lost at sea. Fan Fiction has also 555 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: led to so so so many academic studies. You've got 556 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: The Writing and Eating a fan Fiction and Transformation Theory 557 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: by Virl van Steenhoys out of Perdue. This one's really 558 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: interesting because it talks about how fan fiction does not 559 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: need the world described. That part is already done for 560 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: you are seen if we're talking about a visual medium, 561 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: so like the same is true with the characters, the past, 562 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: the memories, their motivations. The readers all know this universe, 563 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: how it looks, it's rules. This means that it's extremely 564 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: immersive right off the bat, Like you don't have to 565 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: spend time setting that up. Everyone's kind of seeing the 566 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: same thing, which I didn't really think about, but that 567 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: that's again kind of that communal aspect. You're entering into 568 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: this world that you already know, and it's it's there 569 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: for you, and then they're playing with the characters within it. 570 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: Are the rules within it? Yeah, you've got this nice 571 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: backdrop already set up for you, like a canvas exactly. Yeah. 572 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: I was really interested in this study. Slash as a 573 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: Queer Utopia by Dr Eco Willis out of the University 574 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: of Bristol. Here's a quote from that one. The reader 575 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: has to decide not only what readings of the show 576 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: are possible, but what is possible at a fictional universe, 577 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: and this decision must necessarily engage what she believes is 578 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: possible in her own universe. And you know, as queer people, 579 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: that is kind of pitch perfect for our media consumption experience, 580 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: sort of deciding what things look like within our own 581 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: understandings of ourselves and how that is reflected on these 582 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: characters that we, you know, are coming up with scenarios 583 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: for yes and letting it play out. Some of the 584 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: other studies we found have suggested that writing fan fiction 585 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: can help foster empathy, can decrease feelings of depression and isolation, 586 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: can improve self esteem and overall psychological well being, which 587 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: is all pretty good, and fan fiction does. Like I 588 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you do have that review function. In my 589 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: experience with it is it was generally a very positive community. 590 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: I did live in fear of the flame, the bad review, 591 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: but generally most people really encouraging or are appreciative, and 592 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: it was a really I had a really good experience 593 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: with the community, and perhaps that does go back to 594 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: it being mostly women. It's like a little slice of 595 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: a woman only internet. I've often thought, what would the 596 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: Internet look like if it was just women. I think 597 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: it will be a less toxic place. But it seems 598 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: like fan fiction is a place where they've kind of 599 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: tested that out a little bit. Yes, absolutely, and because 600 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: of that it has drawn like a lot of criticism, 601 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: a lot of derision, a lot of fear. It's widely 602 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: disparaged and misunderstood. Some of the popular stereotypes of arguments 603 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: against fan fiction include, it's a much of nerds, you 604 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: don't know how to socialize. Nope, all fan fiction is 605 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: pornographic slash written by straight teenage girls are middle aged 606 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: gay men, depending on who you're listening to. Also not true. 607 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: All fan fiction is written by horny teenage girls and 608 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: is largely illiterate and immoral. I don't win me yea. 609 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: Also not true. And again, stop writing about someone else's characters, 610 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: start writing your own thing. And again, it's not about that. 611 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: But how did we get here? Well, the history of 612 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: fan fiction probably goes back further than you think, and 613 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: we'll talk all about that, but first we're gonna take 614 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: a quick break for word for a sponsor and we're back, 615 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: thank you. Spots are okay. So pending a date two 616 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: when fan fiction began is difficult, and it depends on 617 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: how strict of definition of fan fiction you're using. Some 618 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: arguments say that the Grand Brothers fairy Tales of the 619 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds or fan fiction, they took oral stories and 620 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: then kind of made them into their own thing, telling 621 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: their own moral, whatever moral they want to convey. Some 622 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: arguments say, the Bible councils fan fiction, the o G 623 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: fan fiction, the Bible. Dang, yeah, so that's pretty far back. 624 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: Shakespeare often comes up in the conversation with the history 625 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,680 Speaker 1: of fan fiction as well. Most of his plays are 626 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: derived from a legend or myth that he took and 627 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: then added the Shakespeare touch. And it didn't take long 628 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: after novels started to become more commonplace in the eighteen 629 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: hundreds for popular author is like Daniel Dafoe to voice 630 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: concerns of folks quote kidnapping his work a little strong 631 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 1: but all right. Um. Jane Austin didn't seem too worried 632 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: about it, though, and fans of her works Ja Nights 633 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: engaged in fan fix swapping in the late eighteen hundreds 634 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: with early fanzines. This eventually led to the publishing of 635 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirteen novel and Jane Austin fan fiction, Old 636 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 1: Friend and New Fancies. To date, two forty two published 637 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: novels that are Jane Austin fan fiction are listed on 638 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: good Reads. So she inspired quite a bit of published 639 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: fan fiction. Wow, she's like the Harry Potter of her generation. 640 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 1: She was the JK Rolling of her generation. Absolutely. Moving 641 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: into the uniteteen twenties, we get Sherlock Holmes fan clubs 642 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: and bigger cities like London, and these clubs put out 643 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: the Baker Street Journal. The journal had both academic type 644 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: research and straight up fan fiction that the authors would 645 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: read at fan events. And this is some of the 646 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: first recorded self insert fix where the authors are talking 647 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: about themselves in the world of Sherlock Holmes. Oh I 648 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: love it Yeah. In the next few decades, sci fi 649 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: communities pretty much had the market on fan fiction. Folks 650 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: in the community coined the term fan fiction in nineteen 651 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,959 Speaker 1: thirty nine, but they used it to mean amateur sci 652 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: fi writings and professional sci fi writings are profic was 653 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: a different thing. The first known fan historian, John Jack 654 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: Bristol Spear defined the term in his nineteen forty four 655 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: in fan Cyclopedia, and then in nineteen fifty two The 656 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: Enchanted Duplicator became the first book that was fanfic about 657 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: fans and one of the first uses of fandom and 658 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: print in regards to fans of media. That word was 659 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: first used in late eighteen hundreds as a mashup of 660 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: fan and domain for sports fans. Fan fiction as we 661 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: know it got it start in the nineteen sixties with 662 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: Star Trek. This property gave fans a new way to 663 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 1: interact with the work through magazines that published a fans 664 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: work and conventions. Fans would make copies of zines and 665 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: hand the mat at conventions. When Dr Who started to 666 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: be included in these conventions in the nineteen seventies and eighties, 667 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: this is when we saw some of the first crossover. 668 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: So Doctor Who meeting was spuck that I would read it. 669 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: I would read it. What about Doctor Who and Spock 670 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: shopping for curtains at I ka, Oh, my gosh. I 671 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: had a crush on both Spock and Doctor Who. The 672 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: tenth Doctor David tended so I would totally read into it. Annie. 673 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: Annie is on board as we talked about a little 674 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: bit in our Star Wars episode The First Mary Suit 675 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: Debuty in nineteen seventy three with a Tricky's tale, although 676 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: it was meant to be a parody. Yes, and Star 677 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: Trek fandom also gave us the first slash fick in 678 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: n a Kirk slash Spock fick called The Ring of 679 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: so Schern in which the two characters must have sex 680 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: or die, fall in love, and quote spend all of 681 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: their remaining days on the planet exploring both the planet 682 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: and each other's bodies. Is this a bad Is it 683 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: a bad situation for them? Or is it it's good? 684 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: This started a whole I mean, I'm about to nerd 685 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: out so hard. Okay, get get do it? Okay. So Spock, 686 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: his species, the Vulcan species, has this sexual kind of 687 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: ritual that they go through. It's it's a called pond 688 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: far and you kind of go and heat and if 689 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: you don't have sex and bond with someone, you die. 690 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: So Spock went into pawn far while abandoned on this 691 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: planet with Kirk, and so they had to have sex 692 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: are Spot would die. This is actually a popular trope 693 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: called her time on fan fiction, where you put two 694 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: characters in a situation where they must have sex, forcing 695 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: intimacy usually between two men that wouldn't otherwise happen. So no, 696 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: this is a positive. I'm going to assume Kirk was like, Okay, 697 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't want my friend to die, we can have sex. 698 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: And then from there they fell in love and exploited 699 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 1: each other's bodies for their aspect. Yes, and this story 700 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: and the Kirk Spock ones that followed calls a lot 701 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: of debate in the community during the seventies, and they 702 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: were written mostly by women, and that was a part 703 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: of the debate that did come up. Now there are 704 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 1: a lot of articles into sense a fan fiction, mostly 705 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: penned by women, but the one that really started the 706 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: most hubbub, if you will, was in the New York Times. 707 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: In this article, she discusses how her professor, a woman, 708 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: said that when compared to men, women quote must learn 709 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: linear narratives slowly and with much greater difficulty. The author 710 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: points to fan fiction writing, saying women who traditionally spend 711 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 1: large portions of their lives working in relative isolation for 712 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: little or no pay, bring a different set of motivations 713 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: to their writing and art. They want to talk to 714 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: other women to express themselves in the science fiction form 715 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: that until recently has all but excluded them, which I 716 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: think really drives home this idea that it's about a 717 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: female form of expression and that it's really it's almost 718 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: kind of like anti capitalist. It's not. It's not attached 719 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: to this idea that you're going to be rich and 720 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: famous from doing this. It's it's more about personal growth 721 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: and personal creation. Yeah, And that's another criticism often hurled 722 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: at fan fiction is that it's nonprofit, as if, like women, 723 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: you have no ambitions. Of course you have no ambitions. 724 00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: What are you doing. You're wasting your time on this 725 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: that's never gonna make you money, which again, it's a hobby. 726 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,439 Speaker 1: I mean, would you say that to someone who made 727 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: watercolors for fun, or someone who knitted but didn't sell 728 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: their blankets they just liked knitting. Yeah, exactly. I mean, 729 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure someone does. But it doesn't make sense. It's 730 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: not it's not it's not a cogent argument. Not everything 731 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: needs to be to make money or to get fame 732 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 1: and to get you know, rich and famous. Something is 733 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: going to be for the pursuit of creativity, and that's 734 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: what it sounds like these women were looking for absolutely, 735 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: and as things moved more online in the ninety nineties, 736 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: X files that virgin I are a fan of Exiles 737 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: became the largest online own fandom. Scotland Yard, worried about 738 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 1: a Heaven's Gate situation, started putting together secret files on 739 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 1: the X files, X files on the x file love 740 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: it and on star Check on the fandoms around them. 741 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: In at least one case, occult hazardism from fandom, but 742 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: it's pretty rare. Also, if we look at violence and 743 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: sports fandom, no secret files put together on that. Again, 744 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,800 Speaker 1: could it be because that is a male dominated fandom 745 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,320 Speaker 1: and therefore cool. Well, people actually get hurt. In Europe, 746 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: they have to separate different soccer teams by like a wall, 747 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: otherwise they would murder each other. People have gotten hurt 748 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,879 Speaker 1: from sports fandom. I don't know that there's been fan 749 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: fake murders. Yeah, there's certainly some troublesome aspects in fandom, 750 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: but fan fiction specifically, I mean, unless you're talking about 751 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: ladies hurt and dudes feelings by entering their fandom, talk 752 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,360 Speaker 1: about a murder, you're murdering how I think this fandom 753 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: should be Otherwise? Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I 754 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: don't know. And there is a lot of discomfort around 755 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: fandom and fan fiction to this day, which is about 756 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: where the Spring says, for instance, why are those zangus 757 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 1: writing Harry Potter Pard all these women writing about sex 758 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,880 Speaker 1: and manly man fandoms? Its ruining are to sturdy, it's moral. 759 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: These are all things that you'll hear. I read in 760 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 1: plenty of places, and it kind of made me feel 761 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: ashamed and embarrassed. Yeah, did you grow up thinking at 762 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 1: what you were doing was gross and weird and like 763 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: for weird perverts, like antisocial perverts. No. I did luckily 764 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: dodge that, but I did think it was really embarrassing 765 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: and something I should hide. I didn't think that if 766 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: people found out. I was barely certain I would be 767 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: mocked quite heavily. And it was difficult because again, my 768 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: brothers were very much the kind as I've mentioned before 769 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: on this show, that would pick on you and would 770 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,240 Speaker 1: make fun of you. And we all shared the same computer, 771 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: and I tried for so long to hide what I 772 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: was doing. Luckily, I don't think they ever figured it out. 773 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 1: I wonder what they thought I was printing out though, 774 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: lots of recipes. Yes, for all the all the cooking 775 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: that I did not do at that age. But this, yeah, 776 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,959 Speaker 1: this kind of brings us to talking about women and 777 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,839 Speaker 1: fan fiction and representation and sort of society's apparent fear 778 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: and discomfort with that. It's the dreaded fan fic trope, 779 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: the cliffhanger. But never fear, we have a part to you, 780 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: and uh, we have so much to say about fan fiction, 781 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: so please join us for the second part, coming to 782 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: your ears soon. M