WEBVTT - James Carville - Featuring Emily Maitlis and Jon Sopel 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.080 In August, after the Democratic National Convention, I was at 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.880 a breakfast meeting in Los Angeles when James Carville suddenly 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.160 joined our table. James is a legendary political analyst, a 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.320 spokesman for the Democratic Party, and a former campaign manager 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.680 to President Bill Clinton. The title of his new documentary 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:31.360 says it all winning is Everything stupid. James and I 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.040 might seem very different. After all, He's from Louisiana and 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.240 I'm from upstate New York. He cooks cumbo, I cook 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.560 Glagurian fish stew, but were also pretty much the same 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:47.199 passionate about people, passionate about food, passionate about politics. With 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.040 the inauguration approaching on January twentieth, there couldn't be a 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.840 better time to hear what James has to say, and 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.320 for this episode we have a special edition. Emily Maglis 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.760 and John Sopel, hosts of The news Agent's podcast, joined 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.520 us for what was a really interesting discussion. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.480 Thank you, I'm just delighted to be here. Yeah, I 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.480 think you and I maybe born in the same homb 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.360 We certainly think a lot about a lot of things, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:15.800 I think. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.080 So we have a lot to talk about, but before 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.759 we do, you know the drill, right, So the recipe 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.600 that just was Ligurian fish stew. Laguria is on the coast, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.520 it's apart between Genoa and Pisa. And this came from 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.319 our first cookbook. It's pretty simple. But I thought you 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:32.800 might like to read that, and you can read it 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:33.479 anywhere you want. 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.680 And let me preface it. But I said, I think 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.959 my favorite foods in the world, or these fish based 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:46.720 things like you know, gumbo, bully based for sure, Belengorian 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:50.680 fish stew for sure, any of these kinds of things 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:56.480 that really capture the sea. All of it is a 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:58.160 little bit of the same. I mean, it's a little 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:02.200 different cooking techniques. But let's go ahead. Let's get started here. 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.960 Want three red mullet filet scaled and clean. You got 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.160 of scale and clean and it's true. Five hundred grams 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:15.360 of monkfish or turbo filets one point five kilograms and mussels, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:24.800 twelve langue steams like a little shrip scampy one and 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:29.640 fifty millimeters of white wine. One fresh chili seated and chopped, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.720 one point two leaders of fish stock. Yeah, okay, that's 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.160 that's the key ingredients in all of these kind of 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:44.160 seafood things. Twelve small new potatoes, peeled and ball, one 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.000 lead of tomato sauce and one hundred and seventy five 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.600 millimeters olliveball. Put muscles in a large sauce fan with 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.640 olive ball, white wine and chili coven steam over high heat. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:58.519 Shaken until all shells open. WINKU remove half the muscles 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.240 from their shells and grain juices into the fish stock. Okay, 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.680 I want to make an editorial combat here. This is 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.919 important because you're adding flavor to flavor. You already major 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.000 fish stock. Never throw away oyster liquor or bacon grease 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:15.400 because anytime you get into trouble, bacon grease is gonna 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.440 save you. Now, then we bring the fishtock to a 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:24.000 ball and the lango sines poach. Add the fish stock. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.560 Now when you poaching this or you're reducing a little 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.320 bit too. Reduction is a big thing when you're doing 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.880 things because you want to the fish track more flavor 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:35.520 out of it. Add the fish stock and a tomato 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.400 sauce and bring to a ball. Add the mullet, monk 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.880 fish or turbo and scallons, stirring cooked potatoes, mussels and 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.880 langosteins to make christini. Toast the bread on both sides 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.560 in rubber garlic, Place on top of the soup and serve. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.839 But it's simple, but we have fresh ingredients. You want 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.280 to enhance, not overwhelm the ingredients. So if you're going 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.200 into trouble to getting fresh fish, shall fish, you want 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.160 that flavor to come through and you want to I 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.800 think what's brillian about this recipe? It accentuates the flavors 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.000 more than anything else. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.159 Of course, we all know you as the political strategists 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.599 for you know, you won the election for President Clinton. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.520 Did you want to go into politics yourself? 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.840 Since I was a kid, I've always loved politics. I've 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.800 never really wanted to run for office. Why not? I 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:37.479 don't know. I always wanted to be the man, the 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:39.520 man for the man, Okay I was. I said, maybe 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.640 one day I'd like Noah governor and work for I 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:48.760 mean then I didn't have my first electoral village victory. 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:49.640 Tell's forty two. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:53.640 Your first major campaign was Clinton? 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.960 Or what did you do well? Major being described as 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.560 like statewide races. I said, I was in Louisia, My 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.240 first statewide was a Senate race in Texas. We lost. 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:10.440 That was in nineteen eighty four. I did a Senate 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:13.880 race in Virginia nineteen eighty two and we lost. So 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:18.080 I was a loser. And there was a guy I 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.119 ran for governor of Pennsylvania. He lost three times before 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.560 the three times he went to holy Cross College, and 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.320 Matt Excuse called the three times I lost from holy Cross, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.120 and he couldn't find anybody in wanting to run his campaign, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.920 so they ended up calling me, and I didn't have 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.080 to they had to send the money for the plane ticket. 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:40.480 Well ultimately won. Then I won a race in Kentucky 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:45.480 and New Jersey and Georgia, and so I became noticed 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:53.000 by President Clinton. So I became his chief strategist. And 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.360 then this is for the first selection, first election nineteen 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.160 ninety two, nineteen ninety two, and then after that I 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:01.760 started doing foreign consulting. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.880 Did you go with him to the convention? Did you 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.440 know him before the convention? Yeah, so you were part 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.320 of the strategy right for him, but to get the 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.800 domination right to nominate, yeah, yeah, which was quite incredible, 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.560 wasn't it, Because he came from from Arkansas. Nobody really 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.240 knew who this person was. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:24.240 Yeah, he was so unbelievably talented, and then he was 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.760 when you just look at him. Man, I was with 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:33.559 him a week ago. He is people. When people say 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.520 he's smart, you don't have any idea. You think you 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:43.960 think you're smart, You have no idea your empathetic understanding 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.160 explaining things. 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:49.440 And what about the food. Let's go back to food. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.560 So when you were with Clinton, he liked, he's a 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.360 food person, isn't he did he care about food or not? 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.120 So he was so intense. So one time we were 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.560 on a campaign plane and he would do the New 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:10.200 York Times Crossford puzzle and he literally would never take 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.560 his fence law. And so they bought him salad and 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.480 the coffee, and I asked had to wash him, put 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.000 the thousand hours dress in the coffee and the cream 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.080 on the salad. And he didn't know the difference. 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.600 But you always knew you want to be a Democrat. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.679 Yes, I was always because all related to civil rights 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.640 and race. I just thought black people were getting a 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:43.240 terrible deal. And I probably grew up with some element 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:48.040 of white guilt. Okay, we didn't obsess on it, but 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.960 I knew that I had one life and they had 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.440 another life, and I just thought that was kind of unfair. 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:57.480 Let's start at the beginning. Where were you born? 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.120 So? I was actually born in Fort Betting, George, because 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.440 my daddy was an army during the war. I grew 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.680 up in Louisiana, which is called the River Parishes, which 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.680 is more black than the other parts of out of Louisiana. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.080 And my grandmother was from New Orleans and my mother 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.280 was from of Alls, which is way north, and they 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:22.640 are very distinct differences in Louisiana cooking. It is not 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.920 one thing. It's like Italian cooking. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:30.000 Your father's mother was from New Orleans and. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.880 My mother was from Boyles Parish, which is probably one 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.160 hundred and fifty miles from New Organs. It's very far north. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:44.360 Both Catholics, both French dominated, but very different cuisine. If 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.960 you think of New Orleans as being kind of Parisian 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:53.000 and the rest being provincially it's a good shorthand it's 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.880 a little different day in New Orleans. They put tomato 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.160 in the gumbo, which is heresy to my much just 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.880 couldn't believe that. I mean little things like that when you. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.280 Were growing up, did your grandmother live near you, so 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:07.120 you had these two. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:12.760 Yes, eat paternal grandmother lived a mile exactly one point 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.560 six miles me and I would stay with her all 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.560 the time. Why is that because she spoiled me? 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:20.800 Are you a grandfather? 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:22.839 I'm a grandfather. I have a. 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.479 Completely different relationship with our grandchildren. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.520 Someone said, the reason that grandparents and grandchildren get along 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:35.000 so well they have a common enemy. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.880 Always take the side of your grandkid, always absolutely, I said. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.280 You know, I often say that people who come here 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:46.240 and talk about food, they talk sometimes more about their 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:50.079 grandparents cooking than their mother's cooking. They'll talk about their 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.760 grandmother's food more than their mother's, especially people who've emigrated 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:55.840 from other countries, they'll do that. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.960 How many we have brothers? Eight children? Eight? Eight? Yes, yes, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.040 you have seven brothers and sisters. We do. We'd have 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.560 gumbo in the winter time on the sew, and she 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.839 she do this delicious a shrimp and corn soup and 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.040 the corn was fresh. And you know, we'd have that 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.120 sometimes in the summer months, but we all we came 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.920 home from school, we always had a pot on the sew. 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:21.720 Did she work? 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.680 Did she have a job, or she did she sold 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.280 in cycle. She did not, but we had too many 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:30.520 kids and eight children. So she sold encyclopedias and she 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:31.199 was quite. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:32.559 Good at door to door type of thing. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.480 Yeah, well she would, she would prospect. So she taught 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.520 me like targeting customers and said, we want to see 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.480 two things, a bass boat in a bicycle, because that's 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:48.040 going to tell us that these people have children and 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:53.920 they have some income. And so that's how we target out. 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.200 You would target those target out house. What's the bass boat? 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.440 It's like a fishing boat, but you have to have 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.840 some influence and be in the yard. It would be 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.400 like on a thing, a trailer. And so she would 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.360 go in and that was like twelve or thirteen years old, 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.280 and she didn't it was you know, this was a 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.720 couple was out of coach in the late fifties and sixties, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.120 and she started talking to the lady at the house 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.920 and she'd say, your son, what's the capital of her? Miners? 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.400 My pitia? To god? Oh god, he said, God, damn genius, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:25.600 you know, And then she'd gone she said, what's the 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:31.040 capital of Oregon? Salem? Oh? My god? How hockeld anybody 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:32.800 be that? Some mort And then she'd say, well, what's 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.400 the capital of Finland, I'd say, hell Sinki. And he 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:43.000 got this knowledge by having these encyclopedias. And so the 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.160 lady at the house and said, well, this sounds terrific, 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.760 and let me get my husband there. And so they 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.280 inevit to be bring the husband in, and he was 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.000 kind of polite. He said, well, miss called he. I 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:53.920 know you've got a great product here. But you know 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.120 when school, when we're just a little short, now one, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.200 don't you come back maybe after the first year, we'll 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.880 take another look at it. You know something, Sara, I 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.760 find something about you that's interesting. You could afford a 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.439 bass boat for yourself, but you can't afford educational workarios 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.400 for your children. God was done. He was signing anything. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.680 That you and would every night you'd sit down to 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.520 have a dinner or would everybody kind of she. 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:26.640 Encouraged it, but you know, with kids that she was, 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.560 I think she thought of losing battle. She thought that 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.760 people should that meals were a communal thing. And you know, 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:39.600 she had dementia and the only thing that they she 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.559 would remember is my sister who was or and who 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.679 took care of her, would say, Mama, would Grandma say 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.440 at dinner time, and she would saying aposh, which is 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.200 approached that until Grandma said approach, you couldn't approach the table, 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.640 all right, And that was that was the last thing 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.080 that I wone remember a prush. She was a pretty 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:11.040 sophisticated cook. Actually there was. She made something called crawfish 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.880 bisc sort of recipes and that I'll single it out 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.280 for you, but it's one of these dishes that it's 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.679 really hard to make alone. So she would make it 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:23.240 with like three of my sisters. Okay, no one should 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:27.320 ever shell beans alone. That's a communal thing where you 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.280 get together on the table and everybody's talking, you know. 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.640 Or no one should feel shrimp by themselves. That it 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.760 should be done with a cold beer and newspaper and 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.280 you feeling the shrimp. And you said, and there's certain 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.439 things in home cooking or crawfish bisk because they had 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:46.920 to make a stuffing and then they would like it 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:52.199 was very complex undertaken, very good though, but you wouldn't. 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.080 It's really labor intention. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.240 You grew up in this household, seven brothers and sisters. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.160 Your mother was cooking for you when she wasn't selling encyclopedias, 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:03.840 and your father was. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:08.920 He was a postmaster, and we had a country store, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.240 a general store, so if you wanted a tenpenny nail, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:17.440 a pair of boots, a dozen eggs, slice lunch meat 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.160 or something like that with the can. So we were 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:26.000 to kind of central point of a rural place, and 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.320 you know, old guys would come and they'd sit out 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.480 and drink beer. And of course it was no I 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:38.000 grew up. Everything was segregated except for us because we 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.800 didn't have anything. There were no public facilities. There was 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.840 one when I was a little boy. They had a 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.520 movie theater because the ballerina and the whites had to 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.360 sit in the balcony. Because it was so few, they 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.240 had to be segregated. But in most places the blacks 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.080 had to sit in the balcony and the whites got 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.400 to sit in the bottom of the theater. I was 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.280 it was so overwhelmingly black, we had to sit in 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.440 the in the balcony. And that was when I was 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:11.440 at public clothes, when I was five or six years old. Okay, 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.680 it was. It didn't last, but it was a uh. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:19.000 And then what really made us international is we were 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.040 the location of the most sophisticated and best place for 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:28.080 the treatment of Hanson's disease, which you know of his leprosy. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:33.800 So that really in public health service ran as so 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:37.360 medical people from all over the world would come to Carville. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.960 So I had this window on the wall that you 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.040 would not get anywhere else in the Royal South. And 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:50.120 I think that very much shape I became very much 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.120 morning to be a citizen of the world, as much 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.360 as I wanted to be anything else. I came to 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.640 love the whole world. It sounds kind of like the 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.080 r but it's true. 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.280 And so that journey from going from being a citizen 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.960 of this small small town to being where you are 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.240 now concluded them. When you left home and then you 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.320 went to university, did you know then that politics was 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:16.200 what you. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.200 And I wasn't. It went a very diligent, a good student, 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.120 and I did go to law school. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.160 And he went to the Marines. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:31.000 Did you say, yeah, I got I got funked out, 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:33.600 honest expression on it. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.200 Where were you when Martin Luther Week? 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.760 I was in the Marine Corps. It was in April 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:39.400 nineteen six. 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.120 Question is where were you when Martin Luther King was killed? 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.920 I had a friend, sounds try to say, but the 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:50.080 black friend Okay, of course you were in the military. 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.600 You did. And he said, the news came off that 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.800 the king was killed. He said, man, I gotta I'm depressed. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:58.400 I got to go back to the barracks. I said, 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.920 I'll cover for you or worry about it. No, forget it, 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.600 don't forget it. And in the day I got out 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:10.680 of the Marines, Bobby Kennedy was shot. So I mean 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:16.359 a new turmoil in the Vietnam War was or a disaster. 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:23.280 People think that they're living in the most turbulent times 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.320 you can imagine, Well, they are turbulent. It's terrible, But 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.000 I lived in turbulent time. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:38.399 Shoot imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.320 the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.359 subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.919 oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.240 each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.560 Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.920 really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:11.879 shop the Rivercafe dot co dot uk to place your order. Now, Hello, 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:13.639 come on in, come in. 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.800 Excuse me from not getting up, but I'm your biggest friend. Oh, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.920 come on a terrible noise. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.040 For this episode, Emily mac List and John Sopel, host 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.399 of The Newsagent's podcast, joined our table. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.840 Ruthie is like the greatest connector in the world, and 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:30.840 so we talked. 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.560 About We've been to New Orleans, We've been to the Marines, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.640 We've been through Clinton. We've been everywhere, haven't we been? 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:43.080 We were just we were just beginning to talk about 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:44.160 the movie. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:52.040 It's called Carville. Winning is everything stupid based on the economy? Stupid? Okay? 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:57.640 In my belief that political campaigns exist to do one thing, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.440 and that's to win. If you don't win, you haven't 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:01.040 done anything. It's kind of useless. 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.200 Where can people see this? It's only films in CNN. 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:09.320 It's on HBO X okay, it's we were live on 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:15.000 CNN twice. We've been to all of the big film fashions. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.520 Your Success was the idea that it had to come 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.080 out after the election, so you you do it all. 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:23.600 Notice very interesting because we were trying to figure out 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.400 when do you release it, and then all of the 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.280 events that happened. He had to change the ending four 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.720 times because once Biden got out. I'd been He had 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.760 me on tape years before saying this guy can't run 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:38.280 for reelection. 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.639 He's to Oh, people just say, are we worried about 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.040 his age? And I was one of the people who'd say, 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.240 I'd rather have that glass of water than Trump, and 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.360 you're talking about him being old. I'm just a citizen. 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.760 I didn't know the inside story. I wasn't the person, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.920 but I thought anybody who said we're worried about Biden's 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:59.960 age was really a trumpest. I thought they wanted to 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.000 for Trump, and they just wouldn't say it until the debate. 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.320 You said, if he got out in twenty three in 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:07.520 the summer twenty three. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.479 Would have one going away, the implication. 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.600 Being that it would not have been her. You think 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:13.720 there was somebody better. 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.680 Than Yes, I know. Well, I hate to give names 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.359 because somebody's going to say them, going to exclude them. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:26.199 Andy Bushier, Josh Shapiro, Wes Moore, Gretchen Ritt, mur Or, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:32.919 fl Warnock, JB. Pritskou, Jared Polish, all these people and 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:37.280 I've left some out. All these people are Miss Landry. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.040 Miss Landrew might be as good as communicator as Bill Clinton. 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:51.240 In politics, the most underrated. I think attribute is drum roll, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:58.320 please charm, charm count people. White people who can charm people, 0:20:58.880 --> 0:20:59.520 they just do. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.840 Isn't there a saying, you know, never play golf with 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.200 the president, because if you're a journalist and the president 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.600 asked you to play golf, he could come away and say, 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.240 you know what, he had a sense of humor. You 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.640 know what, he's kind of charming, you know and maybe 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.760 again as a citizen, we're talking about policies. Maybe or 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:20.160 Richard used to say that in his office. He said, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.720 if somebody was lovable, they could get away with so much, 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.080 and if they weren't, they couldn't. 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.880 Yeah, you have no people. Okay, so once you're president, 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.800 but there's some people that walk into a room, in 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:38.960 the room changes. Did Kamalo have that chol not overly? No, 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.960 that doesn't make you don't understand. Harris never ran for 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:48.560 office outside of California, Okay, so she never had to 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.359 walk into the lines. Yet it was a demo heavily 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:57.080 democratic state. So she did never to cultivate hustle audiences. 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.840 That are politicians able to do that? Could she have 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.800 won it? If Biden would have gotten out in the 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.560 summer of twenty twenty three, we would have won easily, 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:16.639 so could she have won? So Biden gets out on 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.679 July to twenty first, all right, the deal gray condition 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:25.040 starts on August seventeen, so she has to take his 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:30.400 campaign manager, his campaign staff, his campaign headquarters, and everything 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:36.119 the country. For whatever reason, I disagree with it. Wanted 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.760 something different than by She refused to be different. They 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:41.760 will ask her, what would you do different? She says, 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.840 I can't think of anything, so we would have definitely 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.879 wanted Joe Biden stands over this disaster like a colossus. 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:56.760 And I like him, Okay, And it's unfortunate because he's 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:02.159 had a really remarkable life life in political career, but 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.399 he's just going to be remembered for this for a 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.040 long time. And it's really a shame. We have not 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:16.000 had an inspirational candidate since twenty twelve. Most people in politics, 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:20.480 it's an emotional business. You see somebody, Hey I love 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:23.920 John Kennedy, Hey I love Bill Clinton, Hey I love Obama. 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:29.040 Hey I love Ronald Reagan. Hey I love Margaret Thatcher. 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:35.080 So whatever, Okay, it's very much not a rational business, 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.840 but an emotional business. 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.400 I was going to ask you about your domestic life 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.879 when you created a home with Mary. So did you 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:44.879 meet at the White House? 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.359 No, there was a story about me. She worked for 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.199 Lee Atwater, who's she was the chief of staff at 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:55.560 the Public Nation Committee, and Lee said go out and 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.880 date this guy. Basically, go see what you can find out. 0:23:58.680 --> 0:23:59.840 About the spy. 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:02.000 Yeah, she was shut out as a spy. 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:02.760 Romantic. 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.320 Yeah, no, literally that's what happened. 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.000 Did you have suspicions that she was spying on you? 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:16.680 Well, fourfol she's really nice looking, well dressed, and we 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.120 were spying. But an hour and a half and four 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:19.800 drinks later. 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:25.720 That's a very cinematic thing, isn't it. Where you find 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.119 out the person that you think you love it that 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:29.280