1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: In August, after the Democratic National Convention, I was at 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: a breakfast meeting in Los Angeles when James Carville suddenly 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: joined our table. James is a legendary political analyst, a 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: spokesman for the Democratic Party, and a former campaign manager 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: to President Bill Clinton. The title of his new documentary 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: says it all winning is Everything stupid. James and I 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: might seem very different. After all, He's from Louisiana and 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 2: I'm from upstate New York. He cooks cumbo, I cook 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 2: Glagurian fish stew, but were also pretty much the same 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: passionate about people, passionate about food, passionate about politics. With 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: the inauguration approaching on January twentieth, there couldn't be a 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: better time to hear what James has to say, and 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: for this episode we have a special edition. Emily Maglis 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: and John Sopel, hosts of The news Agent's podcast, joined 16 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: us for what was a really interesting discussion. 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, I'm just delighted to be here. Yeah, I 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: think you and I maybe born in the same homb 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: We certainly think a lot about a lot of things, 20 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: I think. 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: So we have a lot to talk about, but before 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: we do, you know the drill, right, So the recipe 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: that just was Ligurian fish stew. Laguria is on the coast, 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: it's apart between Genoa and Pisa. And this came from 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: our first cookbook. It's pretty simple. But I thought you 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: might like to read that, and you can read it 27 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: anywhere you want. 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: And let me preface it. But I said, I think 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: my favorite foods in the world, or these fish based 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: things like you know, gumbo, bully based for sure, Belengorian 31 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: fish stew for sure, any of these kinds of things 32 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: that really capture the sea. All of it is a 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: little bit of the same. I mean, it's a little 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: different cooking techniques. But let's go ahead. Let's get started here. 35 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: Want three red mullet filet scaled and clean. You got 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: of scale and clean and it's true. Five hundred grams 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: of monkfish or turbo filets one point five kilograms and mussels, 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: twelve langue steams like a little shrip scampy one and 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: fifty millimeters of white wine. One fresh chili seated and chopped, 40 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: one point two leaders of fish stock. Yeah, okay, that's 41 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: that's the key ingredients in all of these kind of 42 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: seafood things. Twelve small new potatoes, peeled and ball, one 43 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: lead of tomato sauce and one hundred and seventy five 44 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: millimeters olliveball. Put muscles in a large sauce fan with 45 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: olive ball, white wine and chili coven steam over high heat. 46 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: Shaken until all shells open. WINKU remove half the muscles 47 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: from their shells and grain juices into the fish stock. Okay, 48 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: I want to make an editorial combat here. This is 49 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: important because you're adding flavor to flavor. You already major 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: fish stock. Never throw away oyster liquor or bacon grease 51 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: because anytime you get into trouble, bacon grease is gonna 52 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: save you. Now, then we bring the fishtock to a 53 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: ball and the lango sines poach. Add the fish stock. 54 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: Now when you poaching this or you're reducing a little 55 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: bit too. Reduction is a big thing when you're doing 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: things because you want to the fish track more flavor 57 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: out of it. Add the fish stock and a tomato 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: sauce and bring to a ball. Add the mullet, monk 59 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: fish or turbo and scallons, stirring cooked potatoes, mussels and 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: langosteins to make christini. Toast the bread on both sides 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: in rubber garlic, Place on top of the soup and serve. 62 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,839 Speaker 1: But it's simple, but we have fresh ingredients. You want 63 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: to enhance, not overwhelm the ingredients. So if you're going 64 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: into trouble to getting fresh fish, shall fish, you want 65 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: that flavor to come through and you want to I 66 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: think what's brillian about this recipe? It accentuates the flavors 67 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: more than anything else. 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 2: Of course, we all know you as the political strategists 69 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: for you know, you won the election for President Clinton. 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: Did you want to go into politics yourself? 71 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: Since I was a kid, I've always loved politics. I've 72 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: never really wanted to run for office. Why not? I 73 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: don't know. I always wanted to be the man, the 74 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: man for the man, Okay I was. I said, maybe 75 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: one day I'd like Noah governor and work for I 76 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: mean then I didn't have my first electoral village victory. 77 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: Tell's forty two. 78 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: Your first major campaign was Clinton? 79 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: Or what did you do well? Major being described as 80 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: like statewide races. I said, I was in Louisia, My 81 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: first statewide was a Senate race in Texas. We lost. 82 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: That was in nineteen eighty four. I did a Senate 83 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: race in Virginia nineteen eighty two and we lost. So 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: I was a loser. And there was a guy I 85 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 1: ran for governor of Pennsylvania. He lost three times before 86 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: the three times he went to holy Cross College, and 87 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: Matt Excuse called the three times I lost from holy Cross, 88 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: and he couldn't find anybody in wanting to run his campaign, 89 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: so they ended up calling me, and I didn't have 90 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: to they had to send the money for the plane ticket. 91 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: Well ultimately won. Then I won a race in Kentucky 92 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: and New Jersey and Georgia, and so I became noticed 93 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: by President Clinton. So I became his chief strategist. And 94 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: then this is for the first selection, first election nineteen 95 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: ninety two, nineteen ninety two, and then after that I 96 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: started doing foreign consulting. 97 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: Did you go with him to the convention? Did you 98 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: know him before the convention? Yeah, so you were part 99 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: of the strategy right for him, but to get the 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: domination right to nominate, yeah, yeah, which was quite incredible, 101 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: wasn't it, Because he came from from Arkansas. Nobody really 102 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: knew who this person was. 103 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was so unbelievably talented, and then he was 104 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: when you just look at him. Man, I was with 105 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:33,559 Speaker 1: him a week ago. He is people. When people say 106 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: he's smart, you don't have any idea. You think you 107 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: think you're smart, You have no idea your empathetic understanding 108 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: explaining things. 109 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 2: And what about the food. Let's go back to food. 110 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: So when you were with Clinton, he liked, he's a 111 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: food person, isn't he did he care about food or not? 112 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: So he was so intense. So one time we were 113 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: on a campaign plane and he would do the New 114 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: York Times Crossford puzzle and he literally would never take 115 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: his fence law. And so they bought him salad and 116 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: the coffee, and I asked had to wash him, put 117 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: the thousand hours dress in the coffee and the cream 118 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: on the salad. And he didn't know the difference. 119 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: But you always knew you want to be a Democrat. 120 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: Yes, I was always because all related to civil rights 121 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: and race. I just thought black people were getting a 122 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: terrible deal. And I probably grew up with some element 123 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: of white guilt. Okay, we didn't obsess on it, but 124 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: I knew that I had one life and they had 125 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: another life, and I just thought that was kind of unfair. 126 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: Let's start at the beginning. Where were you born? 127 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: So? I was actually born in Fort Betting, George, because 128 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: my daddy was an army during the war. I grew 129 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: up in Louisiana, which is called the River Parishes, which 130 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: is more black than the other parts of out of Louisiana. 131 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: And my grandmother was from New Orleans and my mother 132 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: was from of Alls, which is way north, and they 133 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: are very distinct differences in Louisiana cooking. It is not 134 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: one thing. It's like Italian cooking. 135 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: Your father's mother was from New Orleans and. 136 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: My mother was from Boyles Parish, which is probably one 137 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles from New Organs. It's very far north. 138 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: Both Catholics, both French dominated, but very different cuisine. If 139 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: you think of New Orleans as being kind of Parisian 140 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: and the rest being provincially it's a good shorthand it's 141 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: a little different day in New Orleans. They put tomato 142 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: in the gumbo, which is heresy to my much just 143 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: couldn't believe that. I mean little things like that when you. 144 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: Were growing up, did your grandmother live near you, so 145 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: you had these two. 146 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: Yes, eat paternal grandmother lived a mile exactly one point 147 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: six miles me and I would stay with her all 148 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: the time. Why is that because she spoiled me? 149 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: Are you a grandfather? 150 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: I'm a grandfather. I have a. 151 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,479 Speaker 2: Completely different relationship with our grandchildren. 152 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: Someone said, the reason that grandparents and grandchildren get along 153 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: so well they have a common enemy. 154 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: Always take the side of your grandkid, always absolutely, I said. 155 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: You know, I often say that people who come here 156 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: and talk about food, they talk sometimes more about their 157 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: grandparents cooking than their mother's cooking. They'll talk about their 158 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: grandmother's food more than their mother's, especially people who've emigrated 159 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: from other countries, they'll do that. 160 00:09:56,280 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: How many we have brothers? Eight children? Eight? Eight? Yes, yes, 161 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: you have seven brothers and sisters. We do. We'd have 162 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: gumbo in the winter time on the sew, and she 163 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 1: she do this delicious a shrimp and corn soup and 164 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: the corn was fresh. And you know, we'd have that 165 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: sometimes in the summer months, but we all we came 166 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: home from school, we always had a pot on the sew. 167 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: Did she work? 168 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: Did she have a job, or she did she sold 169 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: in cycle. She did not, but we had too many 170 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: kids and eight children. So she sold encyclopedias and she 171 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: was quite. 172 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 2: Good at door to door type of thing. 173 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, well she would, she would prospect. So she taught 174 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: me like targeting customers and said, we want to see 175 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: two things, a bass boat in a bicycle, because that's 176 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: going to tell us that these people have children and 177 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: they have some income. And so that's how we target out. 178 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: You would target those target out house. What's the bass boat? 179 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: It's like a fishing boat, but you have to have 180 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: some influence and be in the yard. It would be 181 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: like on a thing, a trailer. And so she would 182 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: go in and that was like twelve or thirteen years old, 183 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: and she didn't it was you know, this was a 184 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: couple was out of coach in the late fifties and sixties, 185 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: and she started talking to the lady at the house 186 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: and she'd say, your son, what's the capital of her? Miners? 187 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: My pitia? To god? Oh god, he said, God, damn genius, 188 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: you know, And then she'd gone she said, what's the 189 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: capital of Oregon? Salem? Oh? My god? How hockeld anybody 190 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: be that? Some mort And then she'd say, well, what's 191 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: the capital of Finland, I'd say, hell Sinki. And he 192 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: got this knowledge by having these encyclopedias. And so the 193 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: lady at the house and said, well, this sounds terrific, 194 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: and let me get my husband there. And so they 195 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: inevit to be bring the husband in, and he was 196 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: kind of polite. He said, well, miss called he. I 197 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: know you've got a great product here. But you know 198 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: when school, when we're just a little short, now one, 199 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: don't you come back maybe after the first year, we'll 200 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: take another look at it. You know something, Sara, I 201 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: find something about you that's interesting. You could afford a 202 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: bass boat for yourself, but you can't afford educational workarios 203 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: for your children. God was done. He was signing anything. 204 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 2: That you and would every night you'd sit down to 205 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 2: have a dinner or would everybody kind of she. 206 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: Encouraged it, but you know, with kids that she was, 207 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: I think she thought of losing battle. She thought that 208 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: people should that meals were a communal thing. And you know, 209 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: she had dementia and the only thing that they she 210 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: would remember is my sister who was or and who 211 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: took care of her, would say, Mama, would Grandma say 212 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: at dinner time, and she would saying aposh, which is 213 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: approached that until Grandma said approach, you couldn't approach the table, 214 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: all right, And that was that was the last thing 215 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: that I wone remember a prush. She was a pretty 216 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: sophisticated cook. Actually there was. She made something called crawfish 217 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: bisc sort of recipes and that I'll single it out 218 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: for you, but it's one of these dishes that it's 219 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: really hard to make alone. So she would make it 220 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: with like three of my sisters. Okay, no one should 221 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: ever shell beans alone. That's a communal thing where you 222 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: get together on the table and everybody's talking, you know. 223 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: Or no one should feel shrimp by themselves. That it 224 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: should be done with a cold beer and newspaper and 225 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: you feeling the shrimp. And you said, and there's certain 226 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: things in home cooking or crawfish bisk because they had 227 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: to make a stuffing and then they would like it 228 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: was very complex undertaken, very good though, but you wouldn't. 229 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: It's really labor intention. 230 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: You grew up in this household, seven brothers and sisters. 231 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: Your mother was cooking for you when she wasn't selling encyclopedias, 232 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: and your father was. 233 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: He was a postmaster, and we had a country store, 234 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: a general store, so if you wanted a tenpenny nail, 235 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: a pair of boots, a dozen eggs, slice lunch meat 236 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: or something like that with the can. So we were 237 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: to kind of central point of a rural place, and 238 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, old guys would come and they'd sit out 239 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: and drink beer. And of course it was no I 240 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: grew up. Everything was segregated except for us because we 241 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't have anything. There were no public facilities. There was 242 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: one when I was a little boy. They had a 243 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: movie theater because the ballerina and the whites had to 244 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: sit in the balcony. Because it was so few, they 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: had to be segregated. But in most places the blacks 246 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: had to sit in the balcony and the whites got 247 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: to sit in the bottom of the theater. I was 248 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: it was so overwhelmingly black, we had to sit in 249 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: the in the balcony. And that was when I was 250 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: at public clothes, when I was five or six years old. Okay, 251 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: it was. It didn't last, but it was a uh. 252 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: And then what really made us international is we were 253 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: the location of the most sophisticated and best place for 254 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: the treatment of Hanson's disease, which you know of his leprosy. 255 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: So that really in public health service ran as so 256 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: medical people from all over the world would come to Carville. 257 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: So I had this window on the wall that you 258 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: would not get anywhere else in the Royal South. And 259 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: I think that very much shape I became very much 260 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: morning to be a citizen of the world, as much 261 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: as I wanted to be anything else. I came to 262 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: love the whole world. It sounds kind of like the 263 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: r but it's true. 264 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: And so that journey from going from being a citizen 265 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 2: of this small small town to being where you are 266 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: now concluded them. When you left home and then you 267 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: went to university, did you know then that politics was 268 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 2: what you. 269 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: And I wasn't. It went a very diligent, a good student, 270 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: and I did go to law school. 271 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: And he went to the Marines. 272 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: Did you say, yeah, I got I got funked out, 273 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: honest expression on it. 274 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: Where were you when Martin Luther Week? 275 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: I was in the Marine Corps. It was in April 276 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: nineteen six. 277 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: Question is where were you when Martin Luther King was killed? 278 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: I had a friend, sounds try to say, but the 279 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: black friend Okay, of course you were in the military. 280 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: You did. And he said, the news came off that 281 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: the king was killed. He said, man, I gotta I'm depressed. 282 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: I got to go back to the barracks. I said, 283 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: I'll cover for you or worry about it. No, forget it, 284 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: don't forget it. And in the day I got out 285 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: of the Marines, Bobby Kennedy was shot. So I mean 286 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: a new turmoil in the Vietnam War was or a disaster. 287 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: People think that they're living in the most turbulent times 288 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: you can imagine, Well, they are turbulent. It's terrible, But 289 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: I lived in turbulent time. 290 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: Shoot imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for 291 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: the River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our 292 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: subscription is available for six or twelve months, with each 293 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 2: oil chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with 294 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring some River 295 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: Cafe flavor into your home or to show someone you 296 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: really care for them with the gift. Visit our website 297 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 2: shop the Rivercafe dot co dot uk to place your order. Now, Hello, 298 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: come on in, come in. 299 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: Excuse me from not getting up, but I'm your biggest friend. Oh, 300 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: come on a terrible noise. 301 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 2: For this episode, Emily mac List and John Sopel, host 302 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: of The Newsagent's podcast, joined our table. 303 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: Ruthie is like the greatest connector in the world, and 304 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: so we talked. 305 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: About We've been to New Orleans, We've been to the Marines, 306 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 2: We've been through Clinton. We've been everywhere, haven't we been? 307 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: We were just we were just beginning to talk about 308 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 2: the movie. 309 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: It's called Carville. Winning is everything stupid based on the economy? Stupid? Okay? 310 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: In my belief that political campaigns exist to do one thing, 311 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: and that's to win. If you don't win, you haven't 312 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: done anything. It's kind of useless. 313 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: Where can people see this? It's only films in CNN. 314 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: It's on HBO X okay, it's we were live on 315 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: CNN twice. We've been to all of the big film fashions. 316 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: Your Success was the idea that it had to come 317 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: out after the election, so you you do it all. 318 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: Notice very interesting because we were trying to figure out 319 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: when do you release it, and then all of the 320 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: events that happened. He had to change the ending four 321 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: times because once Biden got out. I'd been He had 322 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: me on tape years before saying this guy can't run 323 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: for reelection. 324 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 2: He's to Oh, people just say, are we worried about 325 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 2: his age? And I was one of the people who'd say, 326 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 2: I'd rather have that glass of water than Trump, and 327 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: you're talking about him being old. I'm just a citizen. 328 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: I didn't know the inside story. I wasn't the person, 329 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 2: but I thought anybody who said we're worried about Biden's 330 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: age was really a trumpest. I thought they wanted to 331 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: for Trump, and they just wouldn't say it until the debate. 332 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: You said, if he got out in twenty three in 333 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: the summer twenty three. 334 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 1: Would have one going away, the implication. 335 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: Being that it would not have been her. You think 336 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 2: there was somebody better. 337 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: Than Yes, I know. Well, I hate to give names 338 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: because somebody's going to say them, going to exclude them. 339 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: Andy Bushier, Josh Shapiro, Wes Moore, Gretchen Ritt, mur Or, 340 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: fl Warnock, JB. Pritskou, Jared Polish, all these people and 341 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: I've left some out. All these people are Miss Landry. 342 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 1: Miss Landrew might be as good as communicator as Bill Clinton. 343 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: In politics, the most underrated. I think attribute is drum roll, 344 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: please charm, charm count people. White people who can charm people, 345 00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: they just do. 346 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: Isn't there a saying, you know, never play golf with 347 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: the president, because if you're a journalist and the president 348 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 2: asked you to play golf, he could come away and say, 349 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: you know what, he had a sense of humor. You 350 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 2: know what, he's kind of charming, you know and maybe 351 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 2: again as a citizen, we're talking about policies. Maybe or 352 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 2: Richard used to say that in his office. He said, 353 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: if somebody was lovable, they could get away with so much, 354 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: and if they weren't, they couldn't. 355 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have no people. Okay, so once you're president, 356 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: but there's some people that walk into a room, in 357 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: the room changes. Did Kamalo have that chol not overly? No, 358 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't make you don't understand. Harris never ran for 359 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: office outside of California, Okay, so she never had to 360 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: walk into the lines. Yet it was a demo heavily 361 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: democratic state. So she did never to cultivate hustle audiences. 362 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: That are politicians able to do that? Could she have 363 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: won it? If Biden would have gotten out in the 364 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty three, we would have won easily, 365 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: so could she have won? So Biden gets out on 366 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: July to twenty first, all right, the deal gray condition 367 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: starts on August seventeen, so she has to take his 368 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: campaign manager, his campaign staff, his campaign headquarters, and everything 369 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: the country. For whatever reason, I disagree with it. Wanted 370 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 1: something different than by She refused to be different. They 371 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: will ask her, what would you do different? She says, 372 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: I can't think of anything, so we would have definitely 373 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: wanted Joe Biden stands over this disaster like a colossus. 374 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: And I like him, Okay, And it's unfortunate because he's 375 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: had a really remarkable life life in political career, but 376 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: he's just going to be remembered for this for a 377 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: long time. And it's really a shame. We have not 378 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: had an inspirational candidate since twenty twelve. Most people in politics, 379 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: it's an emotional business. You see somebody, Hey I love 380 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: John Kennedy, Hey I love Bill Clinton, Hey I love Obama. 381 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: Hey I love Ronald Reagan. Hey I love Margaret Thatcher. 382 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: So whatever, Okay, it's very much not a rational business, 383 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: but an emotional business. 384 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about your domestic life 385 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 2: when you created a home with Mary. So did you 386 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: meet at the White House? 387 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: No, there was a story about me. She worked for 388 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,199 Speaker 1: Lee Atwater, who's she was the chief of staff at 389 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: the Public Nation Committee, and Lee said go out and 390 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: date this guy. Basically, go see what you can find out. 391 00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: About the spy. 392 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was shut out as a spy. 393 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: Romantic. 394 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, literally that's what happened. 395 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: Did you have suspicions that she was spying on you? 396 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: Well, fourfol she's really nice looking, well dressed, and we 397 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: were spying. But an hour and a half and four 398 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: drinks later. 399 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: That's a very cinematic thing, isn't it. Where you find 400 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 2: out the person that you think you love it that 401 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: it turns out that. 402 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: She's very kind of open about it. She was spyed me. 403 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very romantic, I'd say. Yeah. So this was 404 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: when you were with Clinton in the White House. Where 405 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: is it? 406 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? I started We started dating from January to first 407 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. 408 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: So he won the election. 409 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: In ninety two. She was head of all field operations, 410 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: the coordinator for the Bush campaign, and then in November 411 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety one, and she talked about movie and 412 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: I went to work for Clinton, so she was the 413 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: top Bush person. I was the top Clinton person, and 414 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: God help us we survive. 415 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: The River Cafe Winter said Lunch is now running from 416 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: Monday to Thursday. Reserve a booking on www. Rivercafe dot 417 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: co dot UK or give us a call. You've been 418 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: all over the United States and your work and your travels. 419 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 2: Do you think that the food of the South is 420 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 2: the only really regional food we have in America? If 421 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: you went to Vermont, you wouldn't find somebody living in 422 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: northern Vermont eating something different than southern Vermont, or western 423 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: Wisconsin from eastern Wisconsin, or even northern California from southern 424 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 2: But the South is so defined by where you are 425 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: and what you're eating. 426 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: Do you agree, Well, I think that's particularly true, and 427 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I think that because New Orleans 428 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: at one time the second largest ethnic group in New 429 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: Orleans are Italians. So a lot of like gumbo oak 430 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: crow was kind of African and order, and so we 431 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: had African influences. We had Italian influences, but obviously had 432 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: French influences. What we call the German Coast. There's a 433 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: lot of German names in Louisiana, people just yes and 434 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: and they have. 435 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: I've never been to Louisiana. 436 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: From the guy that I want you to meet is 437 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: Chef John Folks, who is like a culinary historian, and 438 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: he would love to cook for you, but he's very 439 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: much into its true Louisiana cooking is comes in a 440 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: lot of places in you it's a meld of different cultures. Jambalaya, 441 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: you know, jambone am ya ya. Yeah. So when you 442 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: listen to John explained the history in how these dishes 443 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: came about. 444 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 2: So we still have we determined why Southern cooking is 445 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: it because. 446 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: I think it's more. I think Louisiana cooking is a 447 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: coastal Southern cooking is quite good. 448 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: So if you went to Mississippi, would it be different 449 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: from the coast to Belieza not. 450 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: The Mississippi coast would be fine. There's a lot of 451 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: really good rest but if you go to the interior, 452 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: much less once you go beyond occasion. But if you 453 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: go to Chelton, a Mobile or Savannah, the food is 454 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: quite good, okay, but it's very different. The coastal South 455 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: is very much different than the upland south Port cities 456 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: tend to have all of these influence and these melding 457 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: of cultures, and these people tend to adapt. There's no 458 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: two people that make the same gumbo. It's rue stock 459 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: and aaramatics and then it's anything you want to put 460 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: in it. One of the best gumbos Paul put them 461 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: used to make it called a seven steak gumbo, which 462 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: is the really cheapest part of beef cow. Which is 463 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: that really kind of well, throw it away, but the 464 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: bone marriage just delivers and delivers and delivers. But I mean, 465 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: you could do anything with it. You can put anything 466 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: you want it. 467 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 2: But is there one ingredient that you have to have 468 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: in order to be a gumbo? It's like this, is 469 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: there something you us? 470 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: I would have shared a roue, but there's just exciting. 471 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: Your chef in New Orleans named Melissa Martin and she 472 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: has some colored mosquito show club and she really grew 473 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: up disappearing land and she makes a numbo without a 474 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: roue and it's quite good. It tastes but mostly it 475 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: following oil. 476 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: No butter. It's it's butter. 477 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: When you could use the neutral of all you can 478 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: use butter, you can use canola, could do a folleyball. 479 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: You probably not a rule against it. My mother she 480 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: would you would stir it in a cast iron skillet 481 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: with a wooden spoon for twenty minutes and not. The 482 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: color is everything. And so if you you have a 483 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: dark room or you have a light room, and Paul Pudo, 484 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: and he's right. Paul said, you just get all really hot. 485 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: You have a flans plan and a whisk and you 486 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: just add the flower in. When it gets within ten 487 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: percent of the color, you wannt take the take the 488 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: heat off because the heat's going to give you in 489 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: a darker root is actually gonna chose a little bit 490 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: thinner gumbo, but a lighter room. And you know, people say, 491 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: if you do seafood, it should be I don't. I like. 492 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: I tend to go for a darker room. But it's 493 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: all in what you like. But basically it has what 494 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: we call trinity celery pepper's onions, celery pepper and what 495 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: is the pepper? Green pepper just great, but they call 496 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: it trinity because very Catholic culture. So the mirror POI 497 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: I think has different tagts. I think they have Most 498 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: cuisines have this basic aromatics in the stock. 499 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 2: Is everything well, you know, there's soups in Tuscany, like 500 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: we believe to always start with it with the sofriito 501 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 2: they call it. Yeah, And so you cook it down 502 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: till it becomes one herb of us. You cook the celery, 503 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 2: the onion, the garlic, the time, and you just cook 504 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 2: it down till it disappears. But it's one herb. I 505 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 2: always say, it's a bit like architecture. It's a foundation, 506 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: isn't it foundation. 507 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: The build on. And the better chefs are building a 508 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: flavor based you know, they don't stalt all at one time. 509 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: They build it, then they don't put And the biggest 510 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: mistake people make about Louisiana cooking is they think it's spicy. 511 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: It is not. It is season. You get one thing 512 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: that dominates. That's not good food. I mean, you know, 513 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: I see these people putting hot pepper. Leah Chase was 514 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: a famous black restaurant sew in New Orleans and her 515 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: restaurant was a kind of focal point for civil rights. 516 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: Dookie Chase who chold him he'll run And she and 517 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: I got an honorary degree at Tulane, And she said, 518 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: you know, Obama came in my restaurant and he put 519 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: hot sauce in my gumbo, and it really said James 520 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: and aggravated me. He just sees took hot sauce and 521 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: put it in my gumbo. I said, well, you know, 522 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: it's chasing. You know, he's I couldn't get over that 523 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: he put hot sauce in my gumbo. Didn't tell him. 524 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: So I saw President Obama and I said, you know 525 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: it's President. I gotta tell you. It's Leah Chase. She's 526 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: still mad at to because she put in a gumbo. 527 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 2: I said that there are I think there are some 528 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: restaurants in Paris that don't put salt and pepper on 529 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 2: the table because they feel that they've seen and that 530 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 2: you know, and therefore, you know, it's like Matista doing 531 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 2: a painting and saying it needs a bit more red. 532 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: So I might just you know, sometimes you have a 533 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: piece of fish and it's covered in a burb block 534 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: sauce and it has a lot of you know, sauce 535 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: over it, and you have the spinach next to it 536 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: and this and that, and you don't taste the fish, 537 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: you know. But when you have something like this, or 538 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 2: you have the food that you were talking about, the 539 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: quality of the ingredient that doesn't need much. You know 540 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: it needs it needs to taste the ingredient and know 541 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: that you're and you can't get away with anything. If 542 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: you have a piece of fish that isn't very good, 543 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 2: they're going to know it right away. If you have 544 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 2: olive oil that isn't strong, you're going to know it 545 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 2: right Yeah. 546 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: It's a place in Parish, Okay think and they do 547 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: the fish and they do it in like an oven, 548 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: and they bring it to you would live in and 549 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: use lemon olive ball and it's utterly delicious. I mean, 550 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: if you get it's really good fish. I mean if 551 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: you if you get a kind of bony fish, you're 552 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: not it's not going to work. But you know, like 553 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: my favorite fish from the Gulf of Mexico. 554 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 2: Tell me about the fish. 555 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: The red snapper to me is the best when you 556 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: can get fresh red snapper. And there's a place in 557 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: the Orleans that that has a kind of charcoal oven 558 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and it went and they do the whole fish and 559 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: I love that. Speckled trout. Triple tail is another really 560 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: good fish. Yeah. If everybody has a different words, somebody 561 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 1: called sea bass. Every every fish coaching or all has 562 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: sea bass. I don't know what the hell they all 563 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: have in common, sea. 564 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: Bass, black bass. Even here they call Brenzi and they 565 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: sometimes in France they call it bar and sometimes they 566 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 2: call it lou de mare for the sea bass. It's 567 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: different if it's in the Mediterranean or the Atlantic. 568 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: Right, something tells me they might be different fish and 569 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: different things. And a lot of what I've come to learn, 570 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: I've done work with to lose on seafood promotion people, 571 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: and a fish sounds bad, but it's good. You got 572 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: to give it a good name. You just call it 573 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: sea bass, because well, everybody knows that mass is so 574 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: ill said, well, gee, that sea bass, So I'm going 575 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: to like that. I mean a lot of a lot 576 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 1: of seafood is nomenclature. How do you describe it? An 577 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: ice is an oyster and the muscles a muscle, and 578 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: we kind of know that, but uh, you know, a 579 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: different shrimp all over the world. 580 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: If you had to think about your comfort food, the 581 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 2: food you would go to, not when you're hungry, not 582 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 2: when you want to impress somebody, but when you actually 583 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 2: need comfort, Is there a food that you would go to. 584 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: I am kind of a big fan of soups. Okay, 585 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,839 Speaker 1: gumbo is I just love gombo. I've been I'm home 586 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: by but four times a week. It's not really a 587 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: comfort food, but the food that I really like and 588 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: not have yet to master's guspacho. But in the summertime, 589 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: you know, when you have when you you should be 590 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: able to again smell what you're eating. My comfort food 591 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: would definitely be gumbo, and but red beans and rice. 592 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: You know, beans and rice are very stable and blat 593 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: and cooking, and I'm Talian cooking. 594 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: I love. 595 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: Just what they call them Cataloni beans of the big 596 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: white beans. You give me that and a little garlic 597 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: and olive ball and a good piece of bread. How 598 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: can you beat that? What are a pot of beans 599 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: and a good bread and a good olive all you? 600 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: I call that simple and unsophisticated. I call it good. 601 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: I call it good too. Let's thank you, jas, thank 602 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: You for listening to Ruthie's Table for in partnership with 603 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: Montclair