WEBVTT - Iran Contra: Episode 8 - Pardon Me 0:00:16.271 --> 0:00:32.230 Pushkin in a political scandal, the gold standard for evidence 0:00:32.271 --> 0:00:36.790 has always been tapes. Tapes were decisive in Watergate. 0:00:37.071 --> 0:00:39.111 We must not have any question to know on this. 0:00:39.311 --> 0:00:41.551 You know, I'm in charge of this thinking, and I am. 0:00:41.511 --> 0:00:42.431 Good about everything else. 0:00:43.351 --> 0:00:45.071 They were decisive in the Clinton impeachment. 0:00:45.311 --> 0:00:46.111 They're bagging. 0:00:46.271 --> 0:00:49.111 Put it in a zip rock bag, and you pack. 0:00:48.991 --> 0:00:50.551 It in with your treasures. 0:00:51.150 --> 0:00:54.671 For though, I don't know, Amonica, it's just this nagging, 0:00:54.711 --> 0:00:56.551 awful feeling I have in the back of my head. 0:00:57.031 --> 0:01:00.791 In Iran Contra, there were no tapes, at least none 0:01:00.831 --> 0:01:03.711 that the public ever got to hear, but there was 0:01:03.791 --> 0:01:13.750 something almost as good. Notes, specifically contemporaneous notes, memos, minutes, calendars, diaries, 0:01:14.431 --> 0:01:18.191 things that people wrote down while events were unfolding, before 0:01:18.231 --> 0:01:20.791 they had a chance to contort or revise their accounts 0:01:20.791 --> 0:01:25.391 of what happened. George H. W. Bush started keeping a 0:01:25.391 --> 0:01:29.391 diary on November fourth, nineteen eighty six. He was still 0:01:29.431 --> 0:01:32.151 the vice president then, but he was already thinking about 0:01:32.151 --> 0:01:36.471 the future. In his first entry, Bush wrote, this is 0:01:36.471 --> 0:01:38.991 the beginning of what I hope will be in accurate diary. 0:01:39.871 --> 0:01:42.391 He vowed to spend between five and fifteen minutes a 0:01:42.431 --> 0:01:45.471 day recording observations about his run for the presidency in 0:01:45.551 --> 0:01:50.751 nineteen eighty eight. In his second diary entry, Bush addressed 0:01:50.751 --> 0:01:52.711 a news story that had just found its way into 0:01:52.711 --> 0:01:56.471 the American media after first appearing in the Lebanese magazine 0:01:56.551 --> 0:01:57.471 called Al Chirau. 0:01:57.911 --> 0:02:00.391 Despite repeated rhetoric from the White House that this country 0:02:00.391 --> 0:02:03.591 would not deal with terrorists or terrorist states, that seems 0:02:03.631 --> 0:02:05.351 to be precisely what happened with. 0:02:05.391 --> 0:02:06.551 Sixty million dollars. 0:02:06.551 --> 0:02:10.231 In his diary, Bush referred to the question of the hostages. 0:02:11.111 --> 0:02:13.991 He described himself as quote one of the few people 0:02:14.031 --> 0:02:17.191 that know fully the details. There's a lot of flak 0:02:17.191 --> 0:02:20.270 and misinformation out there, Bush noted, it is not a 0:02:20.311 --> 0:02:21.431 subject we can talk about. 0:02:24.391 --> 0:02:26.911 Through all of this, there has been considerable speculation about 0:02:26.911 --> 0:02:29.471 the role of Vice President Bush. Where was he on 0:02:29.551 --> 0:02:30.270 the Iran affair. 0:02:30.511 --> 0:02:33.791 Bush's public stance in the immediate aftermath of Iran Contra 0:02:34.151 --> 0:02:36.631 was that he had been out of the loop. He 0:02:36.671 --> 0:02:38.791 didn't know that the Iran weapons sales were part of 0:02:38.831 --> 0:02:41.671 a straight armed for hostages deal. He didn't know what 0:02:41.711 --> 0:02:44.911 the secret program to aid the contras, and he definitely 0:02:44.951 --> 0:02:47.431 didn't know about the diversion of profits from one operation 0:02:47.551 --> 0:02:47.990 to the other. 0:02:48.471 --> 0:02:51.231 I was aware of our Iran initiative, and I support 0:02:51.311 --> 0:02:54.871 the President's decision, and I was not aware of and 0:02:55.031 --> 0:03:00.311 I oppose any diversion of funds and he ransom payments 0:03:00.431 --> 0:03:01.710 or any circumvention. 0:03:01.991 --> 0:03:05.191 By the spring of nineteen eighty seven, Bush was preparing 0:03:05.191 --> 0:03:08.511 to compete in the Republican primary. He ran as a 0:03:08.511 --> 0:03:12.911 heavy favorite against Televangelis Pat Robertson and Kansas Senator Bob Dole. 0:03:13.471 --> 0:03:14.711 No, what do you think about eighty eight? 0:03:14.751 --> 0:03:17.471 You got your mind made up? Or this is still open? 0:03:17.551 --> 0:03:18.511 Now, it's still open. 0:03:18.911 --> 0:03:21.831 It is those open minds and even some minds that 0:03:21.911 --> 0:03:26.071 are already made up, that the six Republican presidential candidates 0:03:26.151 --> 0:03:29.031 all hope to influence over the next three months. 0:03:29.071 --> 0:03:32.631 A major issue emerging in the Republican presidential campaign is 0:03:32.671 --> 0:03:35.311 how much Vice President George Bush knew about the Iran 0:03:35.391 --> 0:03:36.151 contra affair. 0:03:39.871 --> 0:03:42.071 Phobs News has spent more than a month preparing to 0:03:42.151 --> 0:03:44.911 Night's report on the Vice President and the Iran contra affair. 0:03:45.631 --> 0:03:48.031 On the eve of the Iowa Caucuses in early nineteen 0:03:48.071 --> 0:03:51.631 eighty eight, CBS Evening News aired a five minute segment 0:03:51.711 --> 0:03:55.191 highlighting evidence that undermined Bush's statements on Iran contract. 0:03:55.311 --> 0:03:58.231 Questions remain about Vice President Bush's role in the Iran 0:03:58.391 --> 0:03:59.071 arms sale. 0:03:59.231 --> 0:04:02.431 Dan rather pointed to paperwork that indicated Bush had sat 0:04:02.431 --> 0:04:04.991 in on multiple meetings about the Iran weapons initiative. 0:04:05.311 --> 0:04:08.191 Mister Bush attended more than fifteen meetings in the Oval 0:04:08.191 --> 0:04:10.791 office at which the arms sales were discussed. 0:04:11.111 --> 0:04:13.871 He also quoted from notes and memos that suggested Bush 0:04:14.031 --> 0:04:15.951 knew about the Contra resupply operation. 0:04:16.151 --> 0:04:18.911 The Vice President's office says he and his age were 0:04:18.950 --> 0:04:22.831 never involved in directing, coordinating, or approving military aid to 0:04:22.871 --> 0:04:26.510 the Contras, but the record is riddled with inconsistencies. 0:04:27.031 --> 0:04:29.111 Bush had agreed ahead of time to sit for a 0:04:29.111 --> 0:04:33.151 live interview directly after the segment aired. What followed was 0:04:33.191 --> 0:04:36.431 a heated exchange, with Bush claiming that CBS News had 0:04:36.471 --> 0:04:38.191 set him up by telling him the segment would be 0:04:38.231 --> 0:04:41.031 a political profile and rather trying to pin the Vice 0:04:41.071 --> 0:04:44.311 President down on what exactly he had known about Iran Contra. 0:04:44.511 --> 0:04:46.551 You said these you had known this was an arms 0:04:46.551 --> 0:04:49.351 for hostages squap, that you would have opposed it. You 0:04:49.511 --> 0:04:50.671 also said exactly that. 0:04:50.631 --> 0:04:51.510 You did not know that. 0:04:51.591 --> 0:04:54.071 May I answered that that was a question. It was yes, 0:04:54.071 --> 0:04:54.911 statement a statement. 0:04:55.071 --> 0:04:58.351 Let me ask the question if created this program, As 0:04:58.471 --> 0:05:02.271 testifiers stated publicly, he did not think it was arms 0:05:02.271 --> 0:05:05.031 for hostages and later and that's me. 0:05:05.431 --> 0:05:08.150 I don't want to be ugumented, mister, the same questions. 0:05:08.151 --> 0:05:11.111 A whole career is It's not fair to judge my 0:05:11.191 --> 0:05:13.991 whole career by a rehash on Iran. How would you 0:05:14.151 --> 0:05:16.471 like it if I judge your career by those seven 0:05:16.511 --> 0:05:18.391 minutes when you walked off the set in New York? 0:05:19.551 --> 0:05:22.671 As Dan Rather noted in his report, a CBS News 0:05:22.751 --> 0:05:25.190 New York Times poll had found that almost a third 0:05:25.231 --> 0:05:29.991 of all Republicans believed Bush was hiding something CNN Election 0:05:30.311 --> 0:05:34.830 Right eighty eight. But Iran Contra couldn't stop George Bush. 0:05:35.431 --> 0:05:38.471 He eventually ran away with the Republican nomination, and that 0:05:38.591 --> 0:05:41.591 fall he defeated his Democratic rival Michael Dukakis in the 0:05:41.591 --> 0:05:42.231 general election. 0:05:42.791 --> 0:05:46.591 The state of Michigan has just put George Bush over the. 0:05:46.471 --> 0:05:49.631 Top and the number of electoral votes needed to take 0:05:49.711 --> 0:05:50.511 the White House. 0:05:51.191 --> 0:05:54.951 After two terms as VP, Bush would succeed Ronald Reagan 0:05:54.991 --> 0:06:01.711 as president. All the while, Bush maintained his diary. I 0:06:01.751 --> 0:06:04.471 say maintained because he didn't actually write his entries out 0:06:04.511 --> 0:06:08.311 by hand. He dictated them into a tape recorder. His 0:06:08.391 --> 0:06:10.831 assistant would then deliver the cassettes to the Vice President's 0:06:10.831 --> 0:06:15.591 office in Houston, Texas. There, Bush's Houston based secretary would 0:06:15.631 --> 0:06:21.311 transcribe them and file them away. Besides those two intermediaries, 0:06:21.471 --> 0:06:24.191 plus the head of Bush's Houston office, no one knew 0:06:24.271 --> 0:06:28.190 that Bush was keeping a diary. Not Ronald Reagan, not 0:06:28.271 --> 0:06:32.071 the Attorney General, and not Lawrence Walsh, the Independent Council 0:06:32.111 --> 0:06:35.751 who was investigating Iran contra. Walsh and his team of 0:06:35.791 --> 0:06:38.271 prosecutors had started working on the case about a month 0:06:38.311 --> 0:06:41.511 after Bush dictated his first entry, and a few months 0:06:41.551 --> 0:06:44.431 after that, the Office of the Independent Council had submitted 0:06:44.431 --> 0:06:48.231 a document request to the White House asking for any notes, diaries, 0:06:48.311 --> 0:06:50.911 or audio tapes that might be relevant to their investigation. 0:06:51.471 --> 0:06:55.751 All the document requests sought contemporaneous documents and were very 0:06:55.791 --> 0:07:00.271 carefully written and encompassed notes and jottings and dictations and diaries. 0:07:00.751 --> 0:07:04.071 This is John Q. Barrett, who worked on the Independent 0:07:04.071 --> 0:07:07.991 Council's investigation under Lawrence Walsh. Barrett is now a professor 0:07:07.991 --> 0:07:10.031 at Saint John's University's School of Law. 0:07:10.551 --> 0:07:14.590 Contemporaneous documents do speak for themselves. The notes that people 0:07:14.591 --> 0:07:17.111 are taken when they're not trying to shade their story. 0:07:17.271 --> 0:07:20.631 It gives you a roadmap that was highly valuable evidence. 0:07:21.111 --> 0:07:24.151 Highly valuable evidence that Bush did not hand over to 0:07:24.191 --> 0:07:28.471 the Independent Council's Office. Whether Bush made that decision personally 0:07:28.711 --> 0:07:30.951 or whether someone else in his orbit made it for him, 0:07:31.151 --> 0:07:37.751 the move would have lasting consequences. Bush's diary and his 0:07:37.831 --> 0:07:40.751 failure to disclose it would become part of a showdown 0:07:40.751 --> 0:07:43.271 between the Independent Council's Office and the President of the 0:07:43.351 --> 0:07:47.111 United States. In the end, it wasn't Reagan who would 0:07:47.111 --> 0:07:48.711 define the legacy of Iran Contra. 0:07:49.951 --> 0:07:52.551 It was Bush. 0:07:52.911 --> 0:07:57.591 I'm Leon Nafok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This 0:07:57.791 --> 0:07:59.711 is fiasco Iran Contra. 0:08:00.831 --> 0:08:03.831 Iran Contra is the creature that just won't die no 0:08:03.831 --> 0:08:06.591 matter how many times George Bush tries to drive us 0:08:06.591 --> 0:08:09.271 a stake through its heart. Some top Republicans are urging 0:08:09.311 --> 0:08:09.991 Bush to retire. 0:08:10.671 --> 0:08:13.871 I was in fact interviewed by the FBI. 0:08:13.991 --> 0:08:16.831 Well President acted as he faces a demand for notes 0:08:16.831 --> 0:08:19.591 that could still be embarrassing. Now he may try to 0:08:19.631 --> 0:08:22.951 resist on the grounds that Iran contract is all over. 0:08:23.231 --> 0:08:25.671 I think it's the last card in the cover. He's 0:08:25.671 --> 0:08:26.791 played the final card. 0:08:28.031 --> 0:08:33.511 Episode eight, our season finale. Pardon me how George H. W. 0:08:33.711 --> 0:08:40.751 Bush tried to close the loop on Iran Contra. We'll 0:08:40.790 --> 0:08:48.910 be right back. Mary Belcher was a reporter covering the 0:08:48.910 --> 0:08:51.551 White House for the Washington Times when the Iran Contra 0:08:51.590 --> 0:08:53.910 scandal broke in November of nineteen eighty six. 0:08:54.271 --> 0:08:57.631 The Press Corps was covering Reagan on a I believe 0:08:57.670 --> 0:09:01.230 it was a cross country trip that ended in California, 0:09:01.430 --> 0:09:05.430 and he was sort of giving a farewell even though 0:09:05.511 --> 0:09:08.111 he had still two years left in office in nineteen 0:09:08.151 --> 0:09:08.670 eighty six. 0:09:09.351 --> 0:09:12.310 As luck would have it, Belcher was actually on Air 0:09:12.351 --> 0:09:15.591 Force one when reports about Bud McFarlane and Oliver North's 0:09:15.590 --> 0:09:19.430 secret Tehran trip started trickling out. Belcher and a colleague 0:09:19.430 --> 0:09:22.751 from Time magazine had accompanied the President to California. They 0:09:22.830 --> 0:09:25.190 ended up filing the Pool Report that day on behalf 0:09:25.271 --> 0:09:27.511 of all the journalists in the White House Press Corps. 0:09:27.631 --> 0:09:32.111 We asked the president spokesperson about these reports, and we 0:09:32.151 --> 0:09:34.951 didn't get much of any answer. One thing he did 0:09:35.310 --> 0:09:40.111 say to us was be careful about repeating these sorts 0:09:40.151 --> 0:09:42.351 of reports. Because you could be wrong. 0:09:43.391 --> 0:09:46.591 Soon Belcher stopped thinking of herself as a White House reporter. 0:09:47.430 --> 0:09:51.111 She was now on the Iran Contribute. She covered the 0:09:51.111 --> 0:09:54.830 congressional hearings, the indictments of Oliver North and John Poindexter, 0:09:55.111 --> 0:09:58.910 as well as north trial. Then Belcher was presented with 0:09:58.910 --> 0:10:02.311 an opportunity to change careers and get a very different 0:10:02.310 --> 0:10:03.550 perspective on the story. 0:10:04.790 --> 0:10:09.391 And at that point, the spokesperson for Special Counsel Lawrence 0:10:09.430 --> 0:10:14.151 Walsh was leaving to return home to Michigan, and I 0:10:14.430 --> 0:10:19.631 was invited to join the office. And I think, as 0:10:19.670 --> 0:10:21.830 a reporter, you're a voyeur and you want to know 0:10:21.871 --> 0:10:26.231 what goes on inside an investigation you've been covering. And 0:10:26.271 --> 0:10:27.111 I took the job. 0:10:28.670 --> 0:10:31.910 When Belcher became the spokesperson for the Independent Council's office, 0:10:32.151 --> 0:10:35.751 the Walsh team was focused on John Poindexter, Reagan's former 0:10:35.830 --> 0:10:39.751 national security advisor. In March of nineteen ninety, it was 0:10:39.790 --> 0:10:41.591 Poindexter's turn to face trial. 0:10:41.991 --> 0:10:44.790 He is charged with five felony counts in connection with 0:10:44.790 --> 0:10:48.391 the Iran Contra scandal. If convicted, he faces a maximum 0:10:48.391 --> 0:10:49.871 of twenty five years in prison. 0:10:50.190 --> 0:10:52.991 Poindexter was accused of lying to Congress about the US 0:10:53.030 --> 0:10:56.471 government's role in the Contra War. He was also accused 0:10:56.511 --> 0:10:58.990 of lying to the Senate about the first US sanctioned 0:10:59.070 --> 0:11:02.910 arms shipments to Iran, and of deleting electronic messages he 0:11:02.950 --> 0:11:07.391 had sent over an internal White House computer network. Ronald Reagan, 0:11:07.670 --> 0:11:11.910 now out of office, testified at poindexter trial. He did 0:11:11.950 --> 0:11:14.831 not appear in person in the courtroom. Instead, he was 0:11:14.871 --> 0:11:18.631 beamed in by way of a videotaped deposition. Over approximately 0:11:18.670 --> 0:11:22.351 eight hours of testimony, the former president used variations on 0:11:22.391 --> 0:11:25.111 the phrase I don't recall at least eighty eight times. 0:11:25.550 --> 0:11:28.471 I can't say that I specifically recall. I don't have 0:11:28.511 --> 0:11:31.190 a clear recollection of what might have been discussed. I 0:11:31.231 --> 0:11:35.790 don't recall ever mentioning anyone else. I don't recall that 0:11:35.790 --> 0:11:36.430 that coming. 0:11:36.271 --> 0:11:36.670 Up at all. 0:11:36.710 --> 0:11:38.750 As matter of fact, to this day, I don't know 0:11:39.271 --> 0:11:42.430 who finished the delivery of the missiles. 0:11:42.631 --> 0:11:45.190 Really, the overriding message of this is not what did 0:11:45.231 --> 0:11:46.950 the president know and when did he know it? 0:11:46.991 --> 0:11:49.071 But what did he not know and when did he 0:11:49.310 --> 0:11:49.830 not know it? 0:11:49.910 --> 0:11:51.591 I mean the list of things that he didn't know. 0:11:51.710 --> 0:11:52.070 You heard. 0:11:52.111 --> 0:11:56.350 Poindexter was convicted on all counts, but like Oliver North, 0:11:56.590 --> 0:11:59.710 he immediately appealed the verdict, arguing that the evidence against 0:11:59.790 --> 0:12:02.151 him was tainted because it was based in part on 0:12:02.151 --> 0:12:05.190 his testimony before Congress. Here's Mary Belcher again. 0:12:05.550 --> 0:12:08.711 The word taint refers to the fact that both Oliver 0:12:08.830 --> 0:12:13.550 North and John Dexter received immunity from Congress to give 0:12:13.590 --> 0:12:17.670 their testimony. Nothing that they said in those Congressional hearings 0:12:17.710 --> 0:12:20.430 could be used against them in any prosecution. 0:12:21.590 --> 0:12:24.831 This was a huge problem for Lawrence Walsh, and in 0:12:24.830 --> 0:12:27.871 a lead up to North and Poindexter's trials, he and 0:12:27.910 --> 0:12:30.990 his prosecutors had to take borderline comical steps to prevent 0:12:31.030 --> 0:12:34.471 themselves from becoming tainted by coverage of the Iran Contra scandal. 0:12:35.271 --> 0:12:37.871 They couldn't talk about the hearings with their families and 0:12:37.950 --> 0:12:40.190 literally had to turn off the TV or change the 0:12:40.271 --> 0:12:43.311 channel when any mention of North or Poindexter's testimony came on. 0:12:43.910 --> 0:12:47.070 When Mary Belcher joined Walsh's office, part of her job 0:12:47.190 --> 0:12:49.551 was to make sure the prosecutors on staff did not 0:12:49.670 --> 0:12:50.310 get tainted. 0:12:50.710 --> 0:12:53.030 Every day we would get all the press reports and 0:12:53.070 --> 0:12:56.870 gather them in the press office and mark out any 0:12:57.471 --> 0:13:02.511 statements or any information that could arguably be derived from 0:13:02.590 --> 0:13:07.431 either Oliver North through John Poindexter's congressional testimony, not just 0:13:07.511 --> 0:13:10.831 direct quotes, but background information and so so. Sometimes I 0:13:10.871 --> 0:13:16.351 would circulate to the non tainted prosecutorial team press clips 0:13:16.351 --> 0:13:19.550 that were entirely almost entirely blacked out. 0:13:20.231 --> 0:13:24.310 But it wasn't enough. As it turned out, defense attorneys 0:13:24.310 --> 0:13:26.951 for North and Poindexter didn't have to argue that walsh 0:13:27.030 --> 0:13:29.831 Or's prosecutors had been tainted. They could just say that 0:13:29.910 --> 0:13:32.631 witnesses in both trials have been influenced by seeing North 0:13:32.631 --> 0:13:36.550 and Poindexter's testimony in front of Congress. The attorneys took 0:13:36.590 --> 0:13:40.110 a broad definition of influenced. Even if a witness had 0:13:40.151 --> 0:13:43.511 only subconsciously shaped their understanding of events by watching the 0:13:43.511 --> 0:13:47.830 congressional testimony, that was a violation of North and Poindexter's 0:13:47.830 --> 0:13:51.511 Fifth Amendment rights. Here's John Q. Barrett again. 0:13:51.871 --> 0:13:54.991 How do you negate the possibility that hearing some piece 0:13:55.030 --> 0:13:59.830 of ammunized testimony didn't stimulate you to recall something that 0:13:59.950 --> 0:14:03.151 stimulated you, to recall something else that stimulated something else, 0:14:03.271 --> 0:14:06.950 that motivated you to sort of have a certain inflection 0:14:07.271 --> 0:14:11.790 or confidence or tone as you recounted what you believed 0:14:11.871 --> 0:14:15.270 was from your authentic memory without drawing an immunized testimony. 0:14:16.151 --> 0:14:19.711 North successfully challenged his convictions on appeal in nineteen ninety. 0:14:19.991 --> 0:14:23.631 A federal judge today dismissed all charges against former White 0:14:23.631 --> 0:14:26.791 House Aid Oliver North in connection with the Iron Contra affair. 0:14:27.191 --> 0:14:31.750 This, I think is a very very serious warning that 0:14:32.710 --> 0:14:34.791 immunity is not to be granted lightly. 0:14:35.071 --> 0:14:37.431 The following year, Poindexter did too. 0:14:37.871 --> 0:14:40.990 The ruling was nearly identical to one that dismissed charges 0:14:41.151 --> 0:14:43.511 against former White House Aid Oliver North. 0:14:43.911 --> 0:14:45.631 Poindexter had been By. 0:14:45.551 --> 0:14:49.791 This point, George H. W. Bush was well into his presidency. 0:14:49.871 --> 0:14:51.391 It had been an eventful period. 0:14:51.590 --> 0:14:54.471 The Iron Curking between East Germany and West Berlin has 0:14:54.551 --> 0:14:55.551 come tumbling down. 0:14:55.671 --> 0:14:58.511 The Berlin Wall had come down. In Central America, the 0:14:58.590 --> 0:15:01.751 US had invaded Panama and arrested its leader Manuel Noriega 0:15:01.871 --> 0:15:03.111 on drug trafficking charges. 0:15:03.391 --> 0:15:07.871 American military forces a nighttime invasion of Panama and sporadic 0:15:07.871 --> 0:15:09.431 fighting continuing this evening. 0:15:09.710 --> 0:15:12.951 In the least, Bush had ordered air strikes on Iraq 0:15:13.271 --> 0:15:15.751 and deployed half a million ground troops as part of 0:15:15.791 --> 0:15:17.791 the Gulf War against Saddam Hussein. 0:15:17.991 --> 0:15:20.951 President Borch says it will not stop until Iraq gives 0:15:21.031 --> 0:15:21.471 up Kooi. 0:15:22.911 --> 0:15:27.591 Throughout all this, the Walsh investigation continued, the prosecutors weren't 0:15:27.631 --> 0:15:29.951 just interested in the people who had overseen the eurot 0:15:29.991 --> 0:15:33.911 initiative or had been in on the secret contray supply effort. 0:15:34.271 --> 0:15:37.151 They were interested in anyone who had lied to investigators 0:15:37.151 --> 0:15:40.791 about either scheme after the fact. In other words, they 0:15:40.830 --> 0:15:43.631 were interested in the possibility of a cover up, the 0:15:43.791 --> 0:15:46.071 very thing that some of Reagan's advisors had hoped to 0:15:46.111 --> 0:15:49.631 avoid after the Iran weapons sales became public and in 0:15:49.671 --> 0:15:52.591 November of nineteen ninety one, that led Walsh and his 0:15:52.671 --> 0:15:55.951 team to focus on a very senior member of Reagan's cabinet, 0:15:56.671 --> 0:15:59.031 former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger. 0:15:59.590 --> 0:16:02.391 Casper Weinberger was the Secretary of Defense from the start 0:16:02.391 --> 0:16:06.231 of the Reagan administration into nineteen eighty seven, so for 0:16:06.311 --> 0:16:09.870 the long run of years that included this activity. 0:16:10.031 --> 0:16:14.351 Biberger's personal hero was Winston Churchill, and like Churchill, he 0:16:14.391 --> 0:16:18.631 could be confrontational and stubborn. Weinberger had strongly opposed the 0:16:18.671 --> 0:16:21.431 Iran weapons program, and he had tried to convince the 0:16:21.431 --> 0:16:25.470 President it was a bad idea. Later, when testifying before Congress, 0:16:25.631 --> 0:16:28.871 Weinberger said he believed he had been successful, only to 0:16:28.911 --> 0:16:31.471 find out that Reagan had gone ahead with the arms tipments. 0:16:31.511 --> 0:16:35.871 After all, he was strongly opposed to the initiative. If 0:16:35.911 --> 0:16:38.671 he will, the idea that we should make arms deals 0:16:38.671 --> 0:16:41.311 with Iranians, the question was did he know it was 0:16:41.351 --> 0:16:43.830 going forward or not? Despite his opposition. 0:16:44.871 --> 0:16:47.631 Walsh's team had asked Weinberger to provide them with any 0:16:47.671 --> 0:16:50.791 contemporaneous notes he had taken about the Iran weapons sales, 0:16:51.511 --> 0:16:54.511 but Weinberger said he hadn't taken systematic notes on meetings 0:16:54.590 --> 0:16:57.311 during the years in question. He may have jotted things 0:16:57.351 --> 0:17:00.031 down on an informal basis, but he was too busy 0:17:00.071 --> 0:17:02.751 to produce a comprehensive record of events as they unfolded. 0:17:03.391 --> 0:17:09.191 And his general story was that he didn't have personal records, 0:17:09.271 --> 0:17:12.671 that he wasn't a diary keeper, that he didn't have notes. 0:17:12.951 --> 0:17:16.071 It's perfectly conceivable that it may have reflected something at 0:17:16.110 --> 0:17:18.390 the meeting which I didn't make notes on. I don't 0:17:18.390 --> 0:17:19.311 take short end and. 0:17:19.830 --> 0:17:22.631 I do not recall that particular subject coming up, had 0:17:22.630 --> 0:17:23.151 it come up. 0:17:23.191 --> 0:17:26.911 But then in nineteen ninety, Walsh's office obtained a document 0:17:26.991 --> 0:17:30.350 in which former Secretary of State George Schultz expressed frustration 0:17:30.431 --> 0:17:33.150 at having to share his personal notes with the Independent Council, 0:17:33.350 --> 0:17:36.590 while his colleague Casper Weinberger had managed to keep his 0:17:36.751 --> 0:17:37.391 to himself. 0:17:38.031 --> 0:17:40.711 And then he says, and the note taker writes it down. 0:17:41.191 --> 0:17:44.751 Capp never referred to his notes, so he never had 0:17:44.751 --> 0:17:48.151 to cough them up. And cap is Casper Weinberger. That's 0:17:48.191 --> 0:17:53.590 a incredibly direct statement and a tantalizing lead. And we 0:17:53.671 --> 0:17:54.190 pursued that. 0:17:55.350 --> 0:17:58.870 When pressed on the issue, Weinberger's lawyer told prosecutors that 0:17:58.951 --> 0:18:01.590 anything his client had written down had either been turned 0:18:01.630 --> 0:18:05.430 over already or was in the Library of Congress. It 0:18:05.511 --> 0:18:08.510 turned out that a cash of Weinberger's personal papers had 0:18:08.511 --> 0:18:11.230 been sent there after he stepped down as Secretary of 0:18:11.271 --> 0:18:14.991 Defense in nineteen eighty seven. It was amid those personal 0:18:15.031 --> 0:18:19.710 papers at Walsh's prosecutors discovered something surprising about Casper Weinberger. 0:18:20.350 --> 0:18:23.870 And it turned out that Casper Weinberger was a habitual, 0:18:24.071 --> 0:18:27.031 meticulous note taker. You know, lived each day with a 0:18:27.031 --> 0:18:31.510 white pad at his side and logged his activities and 0:18:31.590 --> 0:18:34.630 sometimes added detail of what he learned in a meeting, 0:18:34.751 --> 0:18:38.430 what he heard from a caller. In addition, in every 0:18:38.511 --> 0:18:41.511 meeting he took his white pad and he kept meeting notes, 0:18:42.271 --> 0:18:46.190 and those also were really sort of informal transcripts of 0:18:46.191 --> 0:18:48.031 who said what as a meeting went around the room, 0:18:48.791 --> 0:18:50.831 and none of that had been produced. 0:18:51.991 --> 0:18:55.031 There were more than seventeen hundred pages of Iran contra 0:18:55.150 --> 0:18:59.150 notes in Weinberger's Library of Congress archive. They offered a 0:18:59.191 --> 0:19:01.630 window onto the internal debates that took place while the 0:19:01.711 --> 0:19:05.710 Iran arms initiative was revving up. One note quoted Reagan 0:19:05.751 --> 0:19:08.430 saying that he could answer charges of illegality, but he 0:19:08.431 --> 0:19:11.830 couldn't answer charges that bigs strong. President Reagan had passed 0:19:11.911 --> 0:19:15.750 up a chance to free hostages. Another note indicated that 0:19:15.791 --> 0:19:19.071 members of the National Security Council staff intended to present 0:19:19.110 --> 0:19:21.590 the arm sales as a means of quote helping a 0:19:21.630 --> 0:19:24.071 group that wants to overthrow the government in Iran. 0:19:25.231 --> 0:19:29.511 The notes were really a transcript of cabinet level knowledge 0:19:30.031 --> 0:19:33.230 in real time as the initiatives are going forward, and 0:19:33.271 --> 0:19:34.991 then as the investigations are occurring. 0:19:40.231 --> 0:19:43.191 So there was a lot of information in Weinberger's notes. 0:19:44.071 --> 0:19:46.870 But even if you put that aside, and even if 0:19:46.911 --> 0:19:49.190 you put aside the question of whether Weinberger hid the 0:19:49.231 --> 0:19:52.191 notes in the library of Congress on purpose. The mere 0:19:52.271 --> 0:19:54.751 existence of the notes suggested that he had been lying 0:19:54.791 --> 0:19:57.710 when he said he didn't have them. The truth was 0:19:57.751 --> 0:20:02.431 that Weinberger took notes obsessively and systematically. As Walsh would 0:20:02.471 --> 0:20:05.511 later write in his memoir, Weinberger often stood at a 0:20:05.551 --> 0:20:07.751 reading desk and wrote on a five x seven inch 0:20:07.830 --> 0:20:11.271 government notepad or a legal pad. He always kept both 0:20:11.311 --> 0:20:13.590 on his desk, and when a pad was full, he 0:20:13.630 --> 0:20:16.071 would put it into a desk drawer. When the desk 0:20:16.150 --> 0:20:18.350 drawer was full, he would move the pads into the 0:20:18.350 --> 0:20:20.110 bedroom that was attached to his office. 0:20:20.630 --> 0:20:25.311 The analogy that mister Weinberger's attorneys used was it was 0:20:25.390 --> 0:20:30.071 unconscious he took notes like he brushed his teeth. I 0:20:30.110 --> 0:20:32.991 do remember Judge Walls saying at one point, I often 0:20:33.071 --> 0:20:36.110 don't remember when I brush my teeth, but I know 0:20:36.191 --> 0:20:39.551 I do brush my teeth. And what Weinberger was asked 0:20:39.711 --> 0:20:41.710 was not you know when did you last take notes? 0:20:41.791 --> 0:20:43.111 But do you take notes? 0:20:43.431 --> 0:20:43.630 You know? 0:20:43.711 --> 0:20:48.150 Obviously to deny that, given the physical evidence and so forth, 0:20:48.350 --> 0:20:51.271 was false. It couldn't be anything other than false. And 0:20:51.311 --> 0:20:54.031 I think he had a I'm a good guy and 0:20:54.110 --> 0:20:56.830 it's none of your damn business attitude. That really was 0:20:56.870 --> 0:20:59.351 his motivation to lie to those investigators. 0:21:00.791 --> 0:21:04.111 In June of nineteen ninety two, a grand jury indicted 0:21:04.150 --> 0:21:05.791 Weinberger on felony charges. 0:21:05.951 --> 0:21:09.791 Former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger was indicted today by a 0:21:09.791 --> 0:21:13.551 fel federal grand jury on five criminal charges related to 0:21:13.590 --> 0:21:15.071 the Iran contra scandal. 0:21:15.350 --> 0:21:15.711 They aimed. 0:21:15.830 --> 0:21:18.990 The charges included withholding his notes and making false statements 0:21:19.031 --> 0:21:22.471 about them, and claiming falsely that he had been unaware 0:21:22.551 --> 0:21:26.390 of the first armstreapments to Iran. Weinberger, who by this 0:21:26.431 --> 0:21:30.391 point was the publisher of Forbes magazine, rejected Walsh's accusations. 0:21:30.511 --> 0:21:33.311 Werenberger again portrayed himself as a man who had no 0:21:33.431 --> 0:21:35.991 knowledge of early arm sales to Iran and called the 0:21:36.110 --> 0:21:37.231 charges grotesque. 0:21:37.350 --> 0:21:40.751 The decision to indict me is a grotesque distortion with 0:21:40.830 --> 0:21:43.991 a prosecutorial power and the moral and a legal outrage. 0:21:44.191 --> 0:21:47.350 The indictment of Casper Weinberger signaled that more than five 0:21:47.431 --> 0:21:51.431 years after Walsh's appointment, the Independent Council was still actively 0:21:51.431 --> 0:21:54.590 pursuing new targets, and that he was aiming at the 0:21:54.671 --> 0:21:56.590 upper echelons of the Reagan administration. 0:21:56.830 --> 0:22:00.151