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Speaker 1: Pushkin in a political scandal, the gold standard for evidence

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Speaker 1: has always been tapes. Tapes were decisive in Watergate.

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Speaker 2: We must not have any question to know on this.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm in charge of this thinking, and I am.

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Speaker 4: Good about everything else.

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Speaker 1: They were decisive in the Clinton impeachment.

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Speaker 5: They're bagging.

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Speaker 1: Put it in a zip rock bag, and you pack.

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Speaker 6: It in with your treasures.

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Speaker 4: For though, I don't know, Amonica, it's just this nagging,

11
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Speaker 4: awful feeling I have in the back of my head.

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Speaker 1: In Iran Contra, there were no tapes, at least none

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Speaker 1: that the public ever got to hear, but there was

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Speaker 1: something almost as good. Notes, specifically contemporaneous notes, memos, minutes, calendars, diaries,

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Speaker 1: things that people wrote down while events were unfolding, before

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Speaker 1: they had a chance to contort or revise their accounts

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Speaker 1: of what happened. George H. W. Bush started keeping a

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Speaker 1: diary on November fourth, nineteen eighty six. He was still

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Speaker 1: the vice president then, but he was already thinking about

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Speaker 1: the future. In his first entry, Bush wrote, this is

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Speaker 1: the beginning of what I hope will be in accurate diary.

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Speaker 1: He vowed to spend between five and fifteen minutes a

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Speaker 1: day recording observations about his run for the presidency in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight. In his second diary entry, Bush addressed

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Speaker 1: a news story that had just found its way into

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Speaker 1: the American media after first appearing in the Lebanese magazine

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Speaker 1: called Al Chirau.

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Speaker 7: Despite repeated rhetoric from the White House that this country

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Speaker 7: would not deal with terrorists or terrorist states, that seems

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Speaker 7: to be precisely what happened with.

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Speaker 2: Sixty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: In his diary, Bush referred to the question of the hostages.

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Speaker 1: He described himself as quote one of the few people

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Speaker 1: that know fully the details. There's a lot of flak

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Speaker 1: and misinformation out there, Bush noted, it is not a

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Speaker 1: subject we can talk about.

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Speaker 3: Through all of this, there has been considerable speculation about

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Speaker 3: the role of Vice President Bush. Where was he on

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Speaker 3: the Iran affair.

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Speaker 1: Bush's public stance in the immediate aftermath of Iran Contra

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Speaker 1: was that he had been out of the loop. He

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Speaker 1: didn't know that the Iran weapons sales were part of

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Speaker 1: a straight armed for hostages deal. He didn't know what

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Speaker 1: the secret program to aid the contras, and he definitely

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Speaker 1: didn't know about the diversion of profits from one operation

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Speaker 1: to the other.

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Speaker 4: I was aware of our Iran initiative, and I support

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Speaker 4: the President's decision, and I was not aware of and

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Speaker 4: I oppose any diversion of funds and he ransom payments

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Speaker 4: or any circumvention.

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Speaker 1: By the spring of nineteen eighty seven, Bush was preparing

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Speaker 1: to compete in the Republican primary. He ran as a

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Speaker 1: heavy favorite against Televangelis Pat Robertson and Kansas Senator Bob Dole.

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Speaker 6: No, what do you think about eighty eight?

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Speaker 7: You got your mind made up? Or this is still open?

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Speaker 8: Now, it's still open.

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Speaker 9: It is those open minds and even some minds that

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Speaker 9: are already made up, that the six Republican presidential candidates

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Speaker 9: all hope to influence over the next three months.

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Speaker 3: A major issue emerging in the Republican presidential campaign is

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Speaker 3: how much Vice President George Bush knew about the Iran

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Speaker 3: contra affair.

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Speaker 7: Phobs News has spent more than a month preparing to

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Speaker 7: Night's report on the Vice President and the Iran contra affair.

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Speaker 1: On the eve of the Iowa Caucuses in early nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty eight, CBS Evening News aired a five minute segment

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Speaker 1: highlighting evidence that undermined Bush's statements on Iran contract.

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Speaker 7: Questions remain about Vice President Bush's role in the Iran

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Speaker 7: arms sale.

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Speaker 1: Dan rather pointed to paperwork that indicated Bush had sat

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Speaker 1: in on multiple meetings about the Iran weapons initiative.

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Speaker 7: Mister Bush attended more than fifteen meetings in the Oval

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Speaker 7: office at which the arms sales were discussed.

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Speaker 1: He also quoted from notes and memos that suggested Bush

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Speaker 1: knew about the Contra resupply operation.

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Speaker 7: The Vice President's office says he and his age were

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Speaker 7: never involved in directing, coordinating, or approving military aid to

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Speaker 7: the Contras, but the record is riddled with inconsistencies.

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Speaker 1: Bush had agreed ahead of time to sit for a

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Speaker 1: live interview directly after the segment aired. What followed was

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Speaker 1: a heated exchange, with Bush claiming that CBS News had

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Speaker 1: set him up by telling him the segment would be

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Speaker 1: a political profile and rather trying to pin the Vice

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Speaker 1: President down on what exactly he had known about Iran Contra.

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Speaker 7: You said these you had known this was an arms

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Speaker 7: for hostages squap, that you would have opposed it. You

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Speaker 7: also said exactly that.

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Speaker 10: You did not know that.

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Speaker 2: May I answered that that was a question. It was yes,

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Speaker 2: statement a statement.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask the question if created this program, As

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Speaker 4: testifiers stated publicly, he did not think it was arms

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Speaker 4: for hostages and later and that's me.

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Speaker 7: I don't want to be ugumented, mister, the same questions.

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Speaker 4: A whole career is It's not fair to judge my

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Speaker 4: whole career by a rehash on Iran. How would you

97
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Speaker 4: like it if I judge your career by those seven

98
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Speaker 4: minutes when you walked off the set in New York?

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Speaker 1: As Dan Rather noted in his report, a CBS News

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Speaker 1: New York Times poll had found that almost a third

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Speaker 1: of all Republicans believed Bush was hiding something CNN Election

102
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Speaker 1: Right eighty eight. But Iran Contra couldn't stop George Bush.

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Speaker 1: He eventually ran away with the Republican nomination, and that

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Speaker 1: fall he defeated his Democratic rival Michael Dukakis in the

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Speaker 1: general election.

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Speaker 3: The state of Michigan has just put George Bush over the.

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Speaker 9: Top and the number of electoral votes needed to take

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Speaker 9: the White House.

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Speaker 1: After two terms as VP, Bush would succeed Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 1: as president. All the while, Bush maintained his diary. I

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Speaker 1: say maintained because he didn't actually write his entries out

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Speaker 1: by hand. He dictated them into a tape recorder. His

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Speaker 1: assistant would then deliver the cassettes to the Vice President's

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Speaker 1: office in Houston, Texas. There, Bush's Houston based secretary would

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Speaker 1: transcribe them and file them away. Besides those two intermediaries,

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Speaker 1: plus the head of Bush's Houston office, no one knew

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Speaker 1: that Bush was keeping a diary. Not Ronald Reagan, not

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General, and not Lawrence Walsh, the Independent Council

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Speaker 1: who was investigating Iran contra. Walsh and his team of

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Speaker 1: prosecutors had started working on the case about a month

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Speaker 1: after Bush dictated his first entry, and a few months

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Speaker 1: after that, the Office of the Independent Council had submitted

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Speaker 1: a document request to the White House asking for any notes, diaries,

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Speaker 1: or audio tapes that might be relevant to their investigation.

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Speaker 11: All the document requests sought contemporaneous documents and were very

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Speaker 11: carefully written and encompassed notes and jottings and dictations and diaries.

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Speaker 1: This is John Q. Barrett, who worked on the Independent

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Speaker 1: Council's investigation under Lawrence Walsh. Barrett is now a professor

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Speaker 1: at Saint John's University's School of Law.

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Speaker 11: Contemporaneous documents do speak for themselves. The notes that people

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Speaker 11: are taken when they're not trying to shade their story.

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Speaker 11: It gives you a roadmap that was highly valuable evidence.

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Speaker 1: Highly valuable evidence that Bush did not hand over to

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Speaker 1: the Independent Council's Office. Whether Bush made that decision personally

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Speaker 1: or whether someone else in his orbit made it for him,

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Speaker 1: the move would have lasting consequences. Bush's diary and his

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Speaker 1: failure to disclose it would become part of a showdown

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Speaker 1: between the Independent Council's Office and the President of the

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Speaker 1: United States. In the end, it wasn't Reagan who would

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Speaker 1: define the legacy of Iran Contra.

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Speaker 12: It was Bush.

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Speaker 1: I'm Leon Nafok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This

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Speaker 1: is fiasco Iran Contra.

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Speaker 2: Iran Contra is the creature that just won't die no

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Speaker 2: matter how many times George Bush tries to drive us

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Speaker 2: a stake through its heart. Some top Republicans are urging

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Speaker 2: Bush to retire.

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Speaker 12: I was in fact interviewed by the FBI.

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Speaker 13: Well President acted as he faces a demand for notes

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Speaker 13: that could still be embarrassing. Now he may try to

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Speaker 13: resist on the grounds that Iran contract is all over.

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Speaker 5: I think it's the last card in the cover. He's

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Speaker 5: played the final card.

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Speaker 1: Episode eight, our season finale. Pardon me how George H. W.

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Speaker 1: Bush tried to close the loop on Iran Contra. We'll

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Speaker 1: be right back. Mary Belcher was a reporter covering the

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Speaker 1: White House for the Washington Times when the Iran Contra

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Speaker 1: scandal broke in November of nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 12: The Press Corps was covering Reagan on a I believe

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Speaker 12: it was a cross country trip that ended in California,

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Speaker 12: and he was sort of giving a farewell even though

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Speaker 12: he had still two years left in office in nineteen

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Speaker 12: eighty six.

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Speaker 1: As luck would have it, Belcher was actually on Air

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Speaker 1: Force one when reports about Bud McFarlane and Oliver North's

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Speaker 1: secret Tehran trip started trickling out. Belcher and a colleague

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Speaker 1: from Time magazine had accompanied the President to California. They

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Speaker 1: ended up filing the Pool Report that day on behalf

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Speaker 1: of all the journalists in the White House Press Corps.

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Speaker 12: We asked the president spokesperson about these reports, and we

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Speaker 12: didn't get much of any answer. One thing he did

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Speaker 12: say to us was be careful about repeating these sorts

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Speaker 12: of reports. Because you could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: Soon Belcher stopped thinking of herself as a White House reporter.

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Speaker 1: She was now on the Iran Contribute. She covered the

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Speaker 1: congressional hearings, the indictments of Oliver North and John Poindexter,

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Speaker 1: as well as north trial. Then Belcher was presented with

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to change careers and get a very different

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Speaker 1: perspective on the story.

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Speaker 12: And at that point, the spokesperson for Special Counsel Lawrence

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Speaker 12: Walsh was leaving to return home to Michigan, and I

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Speaker 12: was invited to join the office. And I think, as

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Speaker 12: a reporter, you're a voyeur and you want to know

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Speaker 12: what goes on inside an investigation you've been covering. And

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Speaker 12: I took the job.

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Speaker 1: When Belcher became the spokesperson for the Independent Council's office,

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Speaker 1: the Walsh team was focused on John Poindexter, Reagan's former

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Speaker 1: national security advisor. In March of nineteen ninety, it was

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Speaker 1: Poindexter's turn to face trial.

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Speaker 13: He is charged with five felony counts in connection with

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Speaker 13: the Iran Contra scandal. If convicted, he faces a maximum

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Speaker 13: of twenty five years in prison.

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Speaker 1: Poindexter was accused of lying to Congress about the US

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Speaker 1: government's role in the Contra War. He was also accused

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Speaker 1: of lying to the Senate about the first US sanctioned

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Speaker 1: arms shipments to Iran, and of deleting electronic messages he

197
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Speaker 1: had sent over an internal White House computer network. Ronald Reagan,

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Speaker 1: now out of office, testified at poindexter trial. He did

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Speaker 1: not appear in person in the courtroom. Instead, he was

200
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Speaker 1: beamed in by way of a videotaped deposition. Over approximately

201
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Speaker 1: eight hours of testimony, the former president used variations on

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Speaker 1: the phrase I don't recall at least eighty eight times.

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Speaker 14: I can't say that I specifically recall. I don't have

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Speaker 14: a clear recollection of what might have been discussed. I

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Speaker 14: don't recall ever mentioning anyone else. I don't recall that

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Speaker 14: that coming.

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Speaker 2: Up at all.

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Speaker 14: As matter of fact, to this day, I don't know

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Speaker 14: who finished the delivery of the missiles.

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Speaker 12: Really, the overriding message of this is not what did

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Speaker 12: the president know and when did he know it?

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Speaker 1: But what did he not know and when did he

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Speaker 1: not know it?

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Speaker 10: I mean the list of things that he didn't know.

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Speaker 12: You heard.

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Speaker 1: Poindexter was convicted on all counts, but like Oliver North,

217
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Speaker 1: he immediately appealed the verdict, arguing that the evidence against

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Speaker 1: him was tainted because it was based in part on

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Speaker 1: his testimony before Congress. Here's Mary Belcher again.

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Speaker 12: The word taint refers to the fact that both Oliver

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Speaker 12: North and John Dexter received immunity from Congress to give

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Speaker 12: their testimony. Nothing that they said in those Congressional hearings

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Speaker 12: could be used against them in any prosecution.

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Speaker 1: This was a huge problem for Lawrence Walsh, and in

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Speaker 1: a lead up to North and Poindexter's trials, he and

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Speaker 1: his prosecutors had to take borderline comical steps to prevent

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Speaker 1: themselves from becoming tainted by coverage of the Iran Contra scandal.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't talk about the hearings with their families and

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Speaker 1: literally had to turn off the TV or change the

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Speaker 1: channel when any mention of North or Poindexter's testimony came on.

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Speaker 1: When Mary Belcher joined Walsh's office, part of her job

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Speaker 1: was to make sure the prosecutors on staff did not

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Speaker 1: get tainted.

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Speaker 12: Every day we would get all the press reports and

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Speaker 12: gather them in the press office and mark out any

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Speaker 12: statements or any information that could arguably be derived from

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Speaker 12: either Oliver North through John Poindexter's congressional testimony, not just

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Speaker 12: direct quotes, but background information and so so. Sometimes I

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Speaker 12: would circulate to the non tainted prosecutorial team press clips

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Speaker 12: that were entirely almost entirely blacked out.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough. As it turned out, defense attorneys

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Speaker 1: for North and Poindexter didn't have to argue that walsh

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Speaker 1: Or's prosecutors had been tainted. They could just say that

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Speaker 1: witnesses in both trials have been influenced by seeing North

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Speaker 1: and Poindexter's testimony in front of Congress. The attorneys took

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Speaker 1: a broad definition of influenced. Even if a witness had

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Speaker 1: only subconsciously shaped their understanding of events by watching the

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Speaker 1: congressional testimony, that was a violation of North and Poindexter's

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Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment rights. Here's John Q. Barrett again.

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Speaker 11: How do you negate the possibility that hearing some piece

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Speaker 11: of ammunized testimony didn't stimulate you to recall something that

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Speaker 11: stimulated you, to recall something else that stimulated something else,

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Speaker 11: that motivated you to sort of have a certain inflection

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Speaker 11: or confidence or tone as you recounted what you believed

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Speaker 11: was from your authentic memory without drawing an immunized testimony.

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Speaker 1: North successfully challenged his convictions on appeal in nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 10: A federal judge today dismissed all charges against former White

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Speaker 10: House Aid Oliver North in connection with the Iron Contra affair.

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Speaker 5: This, I think is a very very serious warning that

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Speaker 5: immunity is not to be granted lightly.

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Speaker 1: The following year, Poindexter did too.

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Speaker 9: The ruling was nearly identical to one that dismissed charges

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Speaker 9: against former White House Aid Oliver North.

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Speaker 12: Poindexter had been By.

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Speaker 1: This point, George H. W. Bush was well into his presidency.

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Speaker 1: It had been an eventful period.

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Speaker 13: The Iron Curking between East Germany and West Berlin has

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Speaker 13: come tumbling down.

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Speaker 1: The Berlin Wall had come down. In Central America, the

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Speaker 1: US had invaded Panama and arrested its leader Manuel Noriega

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Speaker 1: on drug trafficking charges.

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Speaker 3: American military forces a nighttime invasion of Panama and sporadic

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Speaker 3: fighting continuing this evening.

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Speaker 1: In the least, Bush had ordered air strikes on Iraq

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Speaker 1: and deployed half a million ground troops as part of

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Speaker 1: the Gulf War against Saddam Hussein.

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Speaker 3: President Borch says it will not stop until Iraq gives

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Speaker 3: up Kooi.

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Speaker 1: Throughout all this, the Walsh investigation continued, the prosecutors weren't

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Speaker 1: just interested in the people who had overseen the eurot

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Speaker 1: initiative or had been in on the secret contray supply effort.

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Speaker 1: They were interested in anyone who had lied to investigators

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Speaker 1: about either scheme after the fact. In other words, they

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Speaker 1: were interested in the possibility of a cover up, the

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Speaker 1: very thing that some of Reagan's advisors had hoped to

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Speaker 1: avoid after the Iran weapons sales became public and in

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Speaker 1: November of nineteen ninety one, that led Walsh and his

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Speaker 1: team to focus on a very senior member of Reagan's cabinet,

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Speaker 1: former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger.

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Speaker 11: Casper Weinberger was the Secretary of Defense from the start

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Speaker 11: of the Reagan administration into nineteen eighty seven, so for

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Speaker 11: the long run of years that included this activity.

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Speaker 1: Biberger's personal hero was Winston Churchill, and like Churchill, he

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Speaker 1: could be confrontational and stubborn. Weinberger had strongly opposed the

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Speaker 1: Iran weapons program, and he had tried to convince the

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Speaker 1: President it was a bad idea. Later, when testifying before Congress,

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Speaker 1: Weinberger said he believed he had been successful, only to

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Speaker 1: find out that Reagan had gone ahead with the arms tipments.

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Speaker 11: After all, he was strongly opposed to the initiative. If

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Speaker 11: he will, the idea that we should make arms deals

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Speaker 11: with Iranians, the question was did he know it was

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Speaker 11: going forward or not? Despite his opposition.

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Speaker 1: Walsh's team had asked Weinberger to provide them with any

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Speaker 1: contemporaneous notes he had taken about the Iran weapons sales,

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Speaker 1: but Weinberger said he hadn't taken systematic notes on meetings

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Speaker 1: during the years in question. He may have jotted things

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Speaker 1: down on an informal basis, but he was too busy

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Speaker 1: to produce a comprehensive record of events as they unfolded.

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Speaker 11: And his general story was that he didn't have personal records,

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Speaker 11: that he wasn't a diary keeper, that he didn't have notes.

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Speaker 5: It's perfectly conceivable that it may have reflected something at

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Speaker 5: the meeting which I didn't make notes on. I don't

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Speaker 5: take short end and.

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Speaker 7: I do not recall that particular subject coming up, had

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Speaker 7: it come up.

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Speaker 1: But then in nineteen ninety, Walsh's office obtained a document

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Speaker 1: in which former Secretary of State George Schultz expressed frustration

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Speaker 1: at having to share his personal notes with the Independent Council,

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Speaker 1: while his colleague Casper Weinberger had managed to keep his

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Speaker 1: to himself.

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Speaker 11: And then he says, and the note taker writes it down.

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Speaker 11: Capp never referred to his notes, so he never had

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Speaker 11: to cough them up. And cap is Casper Weinberger. That's

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Speaker 11: a incredibly direct statement and a tantalizing lead. And we

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Speaker 11: pursued that.

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Speaker 1: When pressed on the issue, Weinberger's lawyer told prosecutors that

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Speaker 1: anything his client had written down had either been turned

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Speaker 1: over already or was in the Library of Congress. It

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Speaker 1: turned out that a cash of Weinberger's personal papers had

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Speaker 1: been sent there after he stepped down as Secretary of

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Speaker 1: Defense in nineteen eighty seven. It was amid those personal

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Speaker 1: papers at Walsh's prosecutors discovered something surprising about Casper Weinberger.

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Speaker 11: And it turned out that Casper Weinberger was a habitual,

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Speaker 11: meticulous note taker. You know, lived each day with a

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Speaker 11: white pad at his side and logged his activities and

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Speaker 11: sometimes added detail of what he learned in a meeting,

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Speaker 11: what he heard from a caller. In addition, in every

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Speaker 11: meeting he took his white pad and he kept meeting notes,

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Speaker 11: and those also were really sort of informal transcripts of

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Speaker 11: who said what as a meeting went around the room,

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Speaker 11: and none of that had been produced.

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Speaker 1: There were more than seventeen hundred pages of Iran contra

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Speaker 1: notes in Weinberger's Library of Congress archive. They offered a

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Speaker 1: window onto the internal debates that took place while the

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Speaker 1: Iran arms initiative was revving up. One note quoted Reagan

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Speaker 1: saying that he could answer charges of illegality, but he

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Speaker 1: couldn't answer charges that bigs strong. President Reagan had passed

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Speaker 1: up a chance to free hostages. Another note indicated that

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Speaker 1: members of the National Security Council staff intended to present

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Speaker 1: the arm sales as a means of quote helping a

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Speaker 1: group that wants to overthrow the government in Iran.

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Speaker 11: The notes were really a transcript of cabinet level knowledge

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Speaker 11: in real time as the initiatives are going forward, and

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Speaker 11: then as the investigations are occurring.

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Speaker 1: So there was a lot of information in Weinberger's notes.

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Speaker 1: But even if you put that aside, and even if

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Speaker 1: you put aside the question of whether Weinberger hid the

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Speaker 1: notes in the library of Congress on purpose. The mere

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Speaker 1: existence of the notes suggested that he had been lying

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Speaker 1: when he said he didn't have them. The truth was

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Speaker 1: that Weinberger took notes obsessively and systematically. As Walsh would

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Speaker 1: later write in his memoir, Weinberger often stood at a

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Speaker 1: reading desk and wrote on a five x seven inch

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Speaker 1: government notepad or a legal pad. He always kept both

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Speaker 1: on his desk, and when a pad was full, he

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Speaker 1: would put it into a desk drawer. When the desk

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Speaker 1: drawer was full, he would move the pads into the

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Speaker 1: bedroom that was attached to his office.

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Speaker 11: The analogy that mister Weinberger's attorneys used was it was

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Speaker 11: unconscious he took notes like he brushed his teeth. I

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Speaker 11: do remember Judge Walls saying at one point, I often

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Speaker 11: don't remember when I brush my teeth, but I know

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Speaker 11: I do brush my teeth. And what Weinberger was asked

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Speaker 11: was not you know when did you last take notes?

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Speaker 11: But do you take notes?

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Speaker 15: You know?

377
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Speaker 11: Obviously to deny that, given the physical evidence and so forth,

378
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Speaker 11: was false. It couldn't be anything other than false. And

379
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Speaker 11: I think he had a I'm a good guy and

380
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Speaker 11: it's none of your damn business attitude. That really was

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Speaker 11: his motivation to lie to those investigators.

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Speaker 1: In June of nineteen ninety two, a grand jury indicted

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Speaker 1: Weinberger on felony charges.

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Speaker 9: Former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger was indicted today by a

385
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Speaker 9: fel federal grand jury on five criminal charges related to

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Speaker 9: the Iran contra scandal.

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Speaker 8: They aimed.

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Speaker 1: The charges included withholding his notes and making false statements

389
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Speaker 1: about them, and claiming falsely that he had been unaware

390
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Speaker 1: of the first armstreapments to Iran. Weinberger, who by this

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Speaker 1: point was the publisher of Forbes magazine, rejected Walsh's accusations.

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Speaker 13: Werenberger again portrayed himself as a man who had no

393
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Speaker 13: knowledge of early arm sales to Iran and called the

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Speaker 13: charges grotesque.

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Speaker 2: The decision to indict me is a grotesque distortion with

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Speaker 2: a prosecutorial power and the moral and a legal outrage.

397
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Speaker 1: The indictment of Casper Weinberger signaled that more than five

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Speaker 1: years after Walsh's appointment, the Independent Council was still actively

399
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Speaker 1: pursuing new targets, and that he was aiming at the

400
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Speaker 1: upper echelons of the Reagan administration.

401
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Speaker 9: Weinberger is the highest ranking member of the Reagan administration

402
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Speaker 9: to be charged.

403
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Speaker 7: It appears that the Independent Council believes that there's been

404
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Speaker 7: an ongoing cover up starting in November.

405
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Speaker 16: Of nineteen eighty six that goes on through today.

406
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Speaker 1: Weinberger's indictment catapulted Iran Contra into the middle of yet

407
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Speaker 1: another presidential election, this one pitting George H. W. Bush,

408
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Speaker 1: who was running for a second term, against the Democratic

409
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Speaker 1: challenger Bill Clinton. Republicans were outraged by the indictment. Some

410
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Speaker 1: called on Walsh to voluntarily close his office and stop

411
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Speaker 1: wasting taxpayer money. Others called on President Bush to fire him.

412
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Speaker 17: You've got a tired special prosecutor and some aggressive on

413
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Speaker 17: the federal payroll and scalp hunters who are out to

414
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Speaker 17: get Ronald Reagan. I think that's clear, and the means

415
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Speaker 17: they've chosen to do it is to try to intimidate

416
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Speaker 17: the cap Weinberger, and that's.

417
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Speaker 1: The most vocal critic of the Weinberger indictment was Bush's

418
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Speaker 1: one time rival for the Republican nomination, Bob Dole, was

419
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Speaker 1: now serving as Senate Minority Leader. He described Walsh and

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Speaker 1: his staff as a squad of highly paid assassins and

421
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Speaker 1: accused them of trying to pressure Weinberger into testifying against Reagan.

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Speaker 16: Spent five years now on somewhere between thirty and fifty

423
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Speaker 16: million dollars, and he haven't got much to show for.

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Speaker 16: And they keep perpetuating themselves in office, hoping they might

425
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Speaker 16: sooner or later be able to get something on Ronald Reagan.

426
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Speaker 16: They should have been closed up two or three years ago.

427
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Speaker 16: If Congress spent fifty million dollars in this kind of chicanery,

428
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Speaker 16: the liberal media around this town would be investigating.

429
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Speaker 1: But Walsh's office did not shut down. Instead, two months later,

430
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Speaker 1: the prosecutors dropped a second bomb when they filed a

431
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Speaker 1: brief that contained an intriguing footnote. It quoted from a

432
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Speaker 1: previously undisclosed memo about a nineteen eighty seven phone conversation

433
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Speaker 1: between Weinberger and then Secretary of State George Schultz.

434
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Speaker 2: Iran contrary is the creature that just won't die no

435
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Speaker 2: matter how many times George Buyce tries to drive a

436
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Speaker 2: stake through its heart.

437
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Speaker 1: The memo dated to when Bush was still Reagan's VP.

438
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Speaker 1: In an interview with The Washington Post, Bush claimed not

439
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Speaker 1: to have realized that both Weinberger and Schultz had been

440
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Speaker 1: against the Iran arm sales. The memo indicated Weinberger had

441
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Speaker 1: seen Bush's comments and called Schultz to complain. Why did

442
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:13,910
Speaker 1: he say that, Weinberger asked, he was on the other side.

443
00:24:15,311 --> 00:24:18,430
Speaker 1: The phone call suggested that Bush had actively supported the

444
00:24:18,471 --> 00:24:23,231
Speaker 1: Iran weapons program. When the memo came out, Democratic lawmakers

445
00:24:23,231 --> 00:24:24,390
Speaker 1: were quick to pounce on it.

446
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:28,390
Speaker 18: Well, it turns out that the president's recollection of affairs

447
00:24:28,431 --> 00:24:30,751
Speaker 18: of state a mere six years ago when he was

448
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:34,911
Speaker 18: vice president of the United States a contradicted by Secretary

449
00:24:34,951 --> 00:24:39,150
Speaker 18: Weinberger and Secretary Schultz. Well, on the floor of the House,

450
00:24:39,191 --> 00:24:41,751
Speaker 18: I can't say that the President of the United States lied,

451
00:24:42,110 --> 00:24:44,471
Speaker 18: but the case is clear from the Washington vot.

452
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:50,390
Speaker 1: Bush tried to dodge questions about the memo.

453
00:24:50,830 --> 00:24:54,430
Speaker 4: I don't know about that. I've told very openly everything

454
00:24:54,511 --> 00:24:56,151
Speaker 4: I have to say about it. I don't know about

455
00:24:56,150 --> 00:24:56,670
Speaker 4: that memo.

456
00:24:57,231 --> 00:24:58,870
Speaker 10: So I saw a story on it.

457
00:24:58,911 --> 00:25:00,230
Speaker 4: To be honest with you, I didn't read it.

458
00:25:00,671 --> 00:25:01,870
Speaker 6: Do you know what they're talking about?

459
00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:06,991
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton started bringing up the memo on the trail,

460
00:25:07,791 --> 00:25:10,470
Speaker 1: offering it as a retort questions about his draft deferment,

461
00:25:10,751 --> 00:25:13,151
Speaker 1: which he called a hill of beans. Compared to Bush's

462
00:25:13,191 --> 00:25:16,590
Speaker 1: support for a legal conduct. Clinton's running mate Al Gore

463
00:25:16,711 --> 00:25:19,031
Speaker 1: got it on the action too well.

464
00:25:19,191 --> 00:25:21,951
Speaker 6: The new evidence came out in the form of notes,

465
00:25:22,951 --> 00:25:24,551
Speaker 6: and they asked him about it, and he just sah,

466
00:25:24,590 --> 00:25:28,551
Speaker 6: I didn't read that story and just brushed it off. Well,

467
00:25:28,590 --> 00:25:31,950
Speaker 6: I would like for him to concentrate on that and

468
00:25:32,071 --> 00:25:38,031
Speaker 6: see whether he can remember what he said and what

469
00:25:38,150 --> 00:25:38,511
Speaker 6: he did.

470
00:25:40,191 --> 00:25:43,950
Speaker 1: On October thirteenth, nineteen ninety two, Bush was interviewed by

471
00:25:44,031 --> 00:25:44,670
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk.

472
00:25:45,191 --> 00:25:48,951
Speaker 9: Do you have any knowledge of the Iran contra ars

473
00:25:48,991 --> 00:25:50,031
Speaker 9: for hostages deal?

474
00:25:50,191 --> 00:25:50,870
Speaker 5: While you went.

475
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:53,831
Speaker 4: Ars Topay one hundred and fifty times under oath, some

476
00:25:53,870 --> 00:25:56,590
Speaker 4: of them in our staff thirty five hundred.

477
00:25:56,791 --> 00:25:57,071
Speaker 19: Yes.

478
00:25:57,390 --> 00:26:00,950
Speaker 4: I said all along that I knew about the arms

479
00:26:00,991 --> 00:26:04,150
Speaker 4: going and I supported the present. I gave speeches about it.

480
00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:07,830
Speaker 1: Remember, up to this point, Bush had insisted that he

481
00:26:07,870 --> 00:26:10,031
Speaker 1: did not know the weapons sales were part of an

482
00:26:10,150 --> 00:26:13,430
Speaker 1: armed for hostages trade. Now he seemed to be admitting

483
00:26:13,431 --> 00:26:15,830
Speaker 1: that he did and pretending that he had been saying

484
00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:16,590
Speaker 1: so all along.

485
00:26:17,231 --> 00:26:21,231
Speaker 2: Late today, Whinehouse aide said Bush misunderstood Katie Kurk's question

486
00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:23,990
Speaker 2: the AIDS say when the arms deal was cooked up?

487
00:26:24,231 --> 00:26:26,551
Speaker 2: He did not fully understand it because he was not

488
00:26:26,751 --> 00:26:27,390
Speaker 2: in the loop.

489
00:26:27,870 --> 00:26:31,031
Speaker 1: While Bush and Clinton battled over Iran Kantra in the media,

490
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:35,231
Speaker 1: defense lawyers for Casper Weinberger battled Walsh and his prosecutors

491
00:26:35,231 --> 00:26:38,711
Speaker 1: in court. By the end of October, the Independent Council's

492
00:26:38,711 --> 00:26:42,190
Speaker 1: Office was preparing to file a superseding indictment against Weinberger,

493
00:26:43,031 --> 00:26:45,871
Speaker 1: essentially an addendum that introduced more specifics to the case

494
00:26:45,911 --> 00:26:49,110
Speaker 1: against him. One of those specifics came from a note

495
00:26:49,150 --> 00:26:54,071
Speaker 1: discovered in Weinberger's files. Weinberger's note said the President had

496
00:26:54,071 --> 00:26:57,271
Speaker 1: decided to go with the Israeli Iranian offer to release

497
00:26:57,311 --> 00:27:00,430
Speaker 1: our five hostages in return for the sale of four

498
00:27:00,471 --> 00:27:05,471
Speaker 1: thousand TOE missiles. George Schultz and I opposed VP favored

499
00:27:06,711 --> 00:27:11,071
Speaker 1: VP favored. Here was something better than a huffy phone

500
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:14,630
Speaker 1: call between two cabinet members. It was a contemporaneous record

501
00:27:14,791 --> 00:27:17,751
Speaker 1: of Bush's support for the arms for hostages scheme.

502
00:27:18,511 --> 00:27:20,991
Speaker 8: And there we were faced with the question do we

503
00:27:21,071 --> 00:27:24,710
Speaker 8: take out the VP favors or do we leave it in.

504
00:27:25,751 --> 00:27:30,470
Speaker 1: This is Jim Brosnahan, a prosecutor on Walsh's team. He

505
00:27:30,511 --> 00:27:33,311
Speaker 1: remembers reading a draft of the superseding indictment before it

506
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:36,670
Speaker 1: was filed, and talking to Walsh about whether VP favored

507
00:27:36,711 --> 00:27:40,590
Speaker 1: should be taken out. Under normal circumstances, they might not

508
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:43,791
Speaker 1: have even considered it. But this was the last week

509
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:47,271
Speaker 1: of October, just days before Americans would be going to

510
00:27:47,311 --> 00:27:51,311
Speaker 1: the polls. Was VP favored too explosive to release so

511
00:27:51,431 --> 00:27:52,431
Speaker 1: close to election day?

512
00:27:53,031 --> 00:27:58,470
Speaker 8: And my decision was, and I take responsibility for a

513
00:27:58,511 --> 00:28:03,390
Speaker 8: lot of a lot of Washington peoples thought this was wrong.

514
00:28:03,671 --> 00:28:07,031
Speaker 8: I respect their opinion, but I thought it. I wasn't

515
00:28:07,031 --> 00:28:12,231
Speaker 8: going to remove it. May may successful the Vice president's

516
00:28:12,311 --> 00:28:17,590
Speaker 8: cover up. He had been dissembling with the American public.

517
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:18,711
Speaker 8: I wasn't going to take it out.

518
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:21,671
Speaker 1: In the press room at the Federal Courthouse in Washington,

519
00:28:22,110 --> 00:28:25,350
Speaker 1: reporters combed through the indictment for new information.

520
00:28:25,431 --> 00:28:28,591
Speaker 8: And everybody in the press room was going about their

521
00:28:28,711 --> 00:28:31,911
Speaker 8: business and doing other things, and over in the corner

522
00:28:32,471 --> 00:28:37,590
Speaker 8: is a reporter and he's typing furiously. All the other

523
00:28:37,671 --> 00:28:42,031
Speaker 8: reporters went over to see what he was madly typing about,

524
00:28:42,391 --> 00:28:45,111
Speaker 8: and so they all looked at it, and they saw

525
00:28:45,271 --> 00:28:52,791
Speaker 8: VP favors. And that Friday night, the three leading television

526
00:28:53,111 --> 00:28:58,911
Speaker 8: channels ran the story of the Vice President and all

527
00:28:58,991 --> 00:28:59,751
Speaker 8: help broke.

528
00:28:59,591 --> 00:29:05,911
Speaker 3: Loose new material that directly contradicts President Bush's claim that

529
00:29:06,031 --> 00:29:08,351
Speaker 3: he was out of the loop in the Iran Contra affair.

530
00:29:08,791 --> 00:29:12,751
Speaker 2: George schultzen I posed Bill Casey Etmees, and Vice President

531
00:29:12,791 --> 00:29:13,991
Speaker 2: Bush favored.

532
00:29:13,951 --> 00:29:15,031
Speaker 8: Campaigning in Pittsburgh.

533
00:29:15,071 --> 00:29:18,151
Speaker 9: Clinton quickly interrupted his schedule to pounce on the revelations

534
00:29:18,151 --> 00:29:19,391
Speaker 9: in the Weinberger indictment.

535
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:24,391
Speaker 7: Secretary Weinberger's notes clearly show that President Bush has not

536
00:29:24,471 --> 00:29:26,631
Speaker 7: been telling the truth when he says he was out

537
00:29:26,631 --> 00:29:27,631
Speaker 7: of the loop.

538
00:29:27,831 --> 00:29:30,391
Speaker 1: As Bush and Clinton were making their closing arguments in

539
00:29:30,431 --> 00:29:34,871
Speaker 1: the campaign, Bush's claims about Iran Contra were under scrutiny.

540
00:29:35,111 --> 00:29:38,271
Speaker 1: Had he lied about his involvement, and if so, was

541
00:29:38,311 --> 00:29:42,710
Speaker 1: he lying to protect Reagan or himself. Bush responded to

542
00:29:42,711 --> 00:29:44,791
Speaker 1: the news the same way he had been responding to

543
00:29:44,871 --> 00:29:48,791
Speaker 1: questions about Iran Contra since nineteen eighty six, by insisting

544
00:29:48,831 --> 00:29:52,151
Speaker 1: that he had never been inconsistent and denying that Weinberger's

545
00:29:52,191 --> 00:29:54,470
Speaker 1: notes on the meeting were in any way revelatory.

546
00:29:54,991 --> 00:29:56,471
Speaker 8: We have a call from Little Rock.

547
00:29:57,111 --> 00:30:00,190
Speaker 1: During an appearance on Larry King Live, Bush was confronted

548
00:30:00,231 --> 00:30:02,871
Speaker 1: on the air by one of Clinton's top aides.

549
00:30:03,191 --> 00:30:04,511
Speaker 8: From George Stephanopolis.

550
00:30:04,591 --> 00:30:07,431
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh, no, guy ahead.

551
00:30:07,431 --> 00:30:09,671
Speaker 16: He has Governor Clinton's campaign manager. This is an open

552
00:30:09,711 --> 00:30:11,471
Speaker 16: phonet ess and he dialed in directly.

553
00:30:11,511 --> 00:30:12,950
Speaker 2: It was lucked in at number.

554
00:30:13,231 --> 00:30:17,031
Speaker 19: Go ahead, George, the president you asked us to find

555
00:30:17,071 --> 00:30:20,351
Speaker 19: out what the smoking gun was, and this memo clearly

556
00:30:20,471 --> 00:30:24,751
Speaker 19: shows that it wasn't these arms for hostages, five hostages

557
00:30:24,791 --> 00:30:27,431
Speaker 19: in return for the sale of four thousand total missiles,

558
00:30:27,631 --> 00:30:30,791
Speaker 19: and that she knew it then, according to mister Weinberger.

559
00:30:30,591 --> 00:30:31,831
Speaker 8: Yeah reply now.

560
00:30:31,911 --> 00:30:34,231
Speaker 4: Let me let me tell you now, mister Stephanopp, let's

561
00:30:34,351 --> 00:30:36,991
Speaker 4: very able, young man. It is the Democrats who have

562
00:30:37,071 --> 00:30:40,231
Speaker 4: been pushing to the tune of some forty million dollars.

563
00:30:40,311 --> 00:30:44,151
Speaker 1: These hearings, Bush suggested that Walsh had included VP favored

564
00:30:44,151 --> 00:30:46,831
Speaker 1: in his indictment in order to help the Clinton campaign.

565
00:30:46,911 --> 00:30:50,351
Speaker 8: Are you implying or saying that Walsh did that today politically?

566
00:30:50,431 --> 00:30:54,190
Speaker 4: No, I'm asking, isn't it strange? I'm not implying anything.

567
00:30:54,271 --> 00:30:57,751
Speaker 4: Let the American people. Let the American people be the judge.

568
00:30:58,271 --> 00:30:59,271
Speaker 10: Let's the American people.

569
00:30:59,271 --> 00:31:01,511
Speaker 1: Four days later, Bush lost the election.

570
00:31:01,831 --> 00:31:05,911
Speaker 14: The American people have voted to make a new beginning.

571
00:31:06,551 --> 00:31:11,190
Speaker 17: A landslide victory ushers in the Clinton era Today Wednesday, November.

572
00:31:11,591 --> 00:31:13,751
Speaker 6: It's been a humiliating defeat for Republicans.

573
00:31:13,911 --> 00:31:15,911
Speaker 10: The landslide was in the electoral votes.

574
00:31:16,271 --> 00:31:18,191
Speaker 2: Maybe you didn't read the election returns.

575
00:31:18,191 --> 00:31:20,191
Speaker 4: It didn't work out quite the way we wanted it.

576
00:31:20,311 --> 00:31:22,751
Speaker 6: He told his supporters He's going to finish the job

577
00:31:23,271 --> 00:31:23,831
Speaker 6: with style.

578
00:31:24,111 --> 00:31:26,151
Speaker 1: Bush had been voted out of office as a one

579
00:31:26,271 --> 00:31:28,791
Speaker 1: term president, but he still had more than two months

580
00:31:28,871 --> 00:31:37,351
Speaker 1: left in the White House. Speculation began almost immediately that

581
00:31:37,471 --> 00:31:41,391
Speaker 1: Walsh's superseding indictment of Weinberger had cost Bush the White House.

582
00:31:42,191 --> 00:31:44,831
Speaker 1: Bob Dole called it a deliberate hit job by the

583
00:31:44,871 --> 00:31:48,311
Speaker 1: anti Reagan, anti Bush. Independent Council's Office.

584
00:31:48,191 --> 00:31:51,111
Speaker 2: Aide say Bush is not angry at Clintonland, but there

585
00:31:51,231 --> 00:31:54,591
Speaker 2: is anger at a ran contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh for

586
00:31:54,711 --> 00:31:57,391
Speaker 2: what the White House claims is a witch hunt that

587
00:31:57,511 --> 00:31:58,710
Speaker 2: hurt Bush in the election.

588
00:31:59,231 --> 00:32:00,911
Speaker 1: Here's John Q. Barrett again.

589
00:32:01,271 --> 00:32:04,631
Speaker 11: You know whether it was sincerely believed or just was

590
00:32:04,711 --> 00:32:08,591
Speaker 11: a convenient punching bag. A lot of people said that

591
00:32:08,671 --> 00:32:13,911
Speaker 11: the Walsh receiving indictment in the phrase VP favored had

592
00:32:13,951 --> 00:32:14,991
Speaker 11: caused Bush to lose.

593
00:32:15,871 --> 00:32:18,711
Speaker 1: A Los Angeles Times exit poll found that the recent

594
00:32:18,791 --> 00:32:22,911
Speaker 1: Iran contrain news had not swayed many voters. The truth

595
00:32:23,031 --> 00:32:26,190
Speaker 1: was Bush had been trailing Clinton since the summer, but

596
00:32:26,511 --> 00:32:29,591
Speaker 1: he had been gaining momentum in recent weeks, and it

597
00:32:29,671 --> 00:32:33,431
Speaker 1: did fade away after Walsh's big reveal. At a meeting

598
00:32:33,471 --> 00:32:37,111
Speaker 1: of Republican Party leaders, Bob Dole accused Walsh of being

599
00:32:37,111 --> 00:32:38,271
Speaker 1: in the tank for Clinton.

600
00:32:38,911 --> 00:32:40,711
Speaker 16: I'd say to mister Walsh, why don't you have a

601
00:32:40,751 --> 00:32:44,751
Speaker 16: little in house investigation. Why don't you take a look

602
00:32:45,751 --> 00:32:48,271
Speaker 16: see if you can find one Republican on your staff,

603
00:32:48,311 --> 00:32:49,671
Speaker 16: mister Walsh.

604
00:32:51,151 --> 00:32:55,031
Speaker 1: In fact, Walsh himself was a lifelong Republican. He was

605
00:32:55,031 --> 00:32:57,831
Speaker 1: appointed to serve as a federal judge by President Eisenhower

606
00:32:58,031 --> 00:33:02,751
Speaker 1: and later served as his deputy attorney General. Nevertheless, four

607
00:33:02,831 --> 00:33:05,951
Speaker 1: Senate Republicans made a formal request the Department of Justice

608
00:33:05,951 --> 00:33:09,071
Speaker 1: appoint a new independent council to investigate.

609
00:33:08,591 --> 00:33:10,191
Speaker 4: The old one.

610
00:33:10,391 --> 00:33:14,151
Speaker 1: It was an ironic move. Republicans had recently killed the

611
00:33:14,191 --> 00:33:17,911
Speaker 1: independent council law put in place after Watergate. The law

612
00:33:17,991 --> 00:33:20,591
Speaker 1: was set to expire in a few weeks, which meant

613
00:33:20,631 --> 00:33:23,751
Speaker 1: there was just enough time to get one more independent council.

614
00:33:23,791 --> 00:33:29,071
Speaker 1: Investigation started Bob Dole prepared a list of criminal statutes

615
00:33:29,071 --> 00:33:31,671
Speaker 1: he thought Walsh may have violated, and he sent it

616
00:33:31,711 --> 00:33:36,591
Speaker 1: to Bush's Attorney General, Bill Barr. In a memo. Barr

617
00:33:36,631 --> 00:33:40,671
Speaker 1: was advised against appointing another independent council. The author of

618
00:33:40,671 --> 00:33:44,591
Speaker 1: the memo was the head of DOJ's Criminal Division, Robert Muller.

619
00:33:45,551 --> 00:33:49,151
Speaker 1: In the end, Barr decided Muhller had it right. Instead

620
00:33:49,151 --> 00:33:51,991
Speaker 1: of appointing a new Independent Council, he referred the Walsh

621
00:33:52,031 --> 00:33:56,871
Speaker 1: matter to the Criminal Division. Around the same time, the

622
00:33:56,911 --> 00:34:00,791
Speaker 1: Independent Council's spokesperson, Mary Belcher was asked to come in

623
00:34:00,871 --> 00:34:04,311
Speaker 1: for an interview with the FBI. They wanted to know

624
00:34:04,351 --> 00:34:07,311
Speaker 1: if she had given the Clinton campaign advance warning that

625
00:34:07,391 --> 00:34:10,151
Speaker 1: the superseding indictment of Casper Weinberger was coming.

626
00:34:11,071 --> 00:34:14,551
Speaker 12: And I don't know if anybody knows this, but I

627
00:34:14,631 --> 00:34:18,790
Speaker 12: was in fact interviewed by the FBI to ask me

628
00:34:18,911 --> 00:34:22,311
Speaker 12: whether or not I had leaked information to the Clinton campaign.

629
00:34:23,111 --> 00:34:25,671
Speaker 1: Republicans had been raising the possibility of a leak in

630
00:34:25,710 --> 00:34:29,111
Speaker 1: the media. They were suspicious because a statement issued by

631
00:34:29,151 --> 00:34:32,310
Speaker 1: the Clinton campaign about the VP favored memo had been

632
00:34:32,391 --> 00:34:36,511
Speaker 1: dated October twenty ninth, one day before the indictment of

633
00:34:36,551 --> 00:34:40,631
Speaker 1: Casper Weinberger was filed. The explanation from the Clinton camp

634
00:34:40,750 --> 00:34:43,311
Speaker 1: was that someone had simply entered the wrong date by mistake.

635
00:34:44,591 --> 00:34:48,471
Speaker 1: In a Virginia FBI field office. Agents asked Mary Belcher

636
00:34:48,471 --> 00:34:52,430
Speaker 1: if she was personally acquainted with Clinton's communications director George Stephanopolis.

637
00:34:53,311 --> 00:34:55,911
Speaker 1: How did it come to be that FBI agents were

638
00:34:55,951 --> 00:34:56,591
Speaker 1: asking about this?

639
00:34:57,071 --> 00:35:00,710
Speaker 12: I don't know. I assume somebody high up thought that

640
00:35:01,230 --> 00:35:04,391
Speaker 12: there was a story there, there was something worth investigating,

641
00:35:04,431 --> 00:35:09,111
Speaker 12: some criminal activity, that Judge Walsh's office was somehow working

642
00:35:09,151 --> 00:35:12,831
Speaker 12: in concert with presidential hopeful Bill Clinton.

643
00:35:13,391 --> 00:35:15,511
Speaker 1: I asked Belcher if she thought her questioning had been

644
00:35:15,551 --> 00:35:19,190
Speaker 1: part of an FBI investigation into Walsh's office. She said

645
00:35:19,190 --> 00:35:21,270
Speaker 1: it had never really occurred to her to wonder, and

646
00:35:21,311 --> 00:35:23,391
Speaker 1: that she had never discussed it with any of her colleagues.

647
00:35:23,831 --> 00:35:26,270
Speaker 12: You know, I guess I could request the FBI three

648
00:35:26,351 --> 00:35:28,631
Speaker 12: OHO two with my name on it. A three O

649
00:35:28,750 --> 00:35:32,951
Speaker 12: two is a record of an investigation. It's generally a

650
00:35:32,991 --> 00:35:35,190
Speaker 12: one or two sheet thing. It would be kind of

651
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:37,831
Speaker 12: funny to see it, but it was serious business. I

652
00:35:37,871 --> 00:35:40,511
Speaker 12: don't want to make light of it, but I really

653
00:35:40,591 --> 00:35:43,270
Speaker 12: don't know anything more about it.

654
00:35:44,671 --> 00:35:48,111
Speaker 1: With the integrity of their office under attack, Walsh and

655
00:35:48,111 --> 00:35:51,671
Speaker 1: his prosecutors continued to prepare for the trial of Kasper Weinberger,

656
00:35:52,111 --> 00:35:53,830
Speaker 1: in which they would try to convince a jury that

657
00:35:53,871 --> 00:35:58,710
Speaker 1: he had illegally withheld his notes from Iran Contra investigators. Then,

658
00:35:59,230 --> 00:36:03,391
Speaker 1: on December eleventh, nineteen ninety two, the Walsh team received

659
00:36:03,391 --> 00:36:08,190
Speaker 1: an astonishing piece of information. George H. W. Bush had

660
00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:14,231
Speaker 1: kept a diary. A few months earlier. One of Bush's

661
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:17,431
Speaker 1: administrative assistants had found the diary while taking inventory in

662
00:36:17,471 --> 00:36:20,351
Speaker 1: the White House. She thought it looked relevant to the

663
00:36:20,391 --> 00:36:24,071
Speaker 1: Independent Council's investigation, so she shared it with Bush's White

664
00:36:24,111 --> 00:36:27,831
Speaker 1: House Council. He kept a diary to himself until after

665
00:36:27,871 --> 00:36:31,270
Speaker 1: the election. When Walsh found out about the diary, he

666
00:36:31,311 --> 00:36:34,111
Speaker 1: didn't say anything about the matter publicly, and it was

667
00:36:34,190 --> 00:36:38,671
Speaker 1: unclear what, if anything, he was going to do about it. Meanwhile,

668
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:42,311
Speaker 1: George H. W. Bush was now a lame duck president,

669
00:36:43,391 --> 00:36:47,071
Speaker 1: but he was still in charge, and, as conservative commentators

670
00:36:47,071 --> 00:36:49,430
Speaker 1: reminded him over and over again in the weeks after

671
00:36:49,471 --> 00:36:52,911
Speaker 1: his defeat, that meant he had the power to issue pardons.

672
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:57,190
Speaker 2: Some top Republicans are urging Bush to retaliate by pardoning

673
00:36:57,270 --> 00:37:02,071
Speaker 2: former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger and other Iran Contra defendants.

674
00:37:02,270 --> 00:37:05,351
Speaker 17: I think what happened to Cap Weinberger is one of

675
00:37:05,351 --> 00:37:08,390
Speaker 17: the most disgusting things I have seen in fourteen years

676
00:37:08,431 --> 00:37:09,151
Speaker 17: in Washington.

677
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:09,871
Speaker 8: He should do.

678
00:37:10,031 --> 00:37:12,431
Speaker 1: He be crowned with gar respector of pardons for the

679
00:37:12,471 --> 00:37:15,910
Speaker 1: Iran Contra defendants had been hanging over Walsh's investigation from

680
00:37:15,951 --> 00:37:19,711
Speaker 1: the very beginning. Some had expected Ronald Reagan to issue

681
00:37:19,710 --> 00:37:24,350
Speaker 1: pardons before leaving office, but Reagan didn't do it, and

682
00:37:24,431 --> 00:37:27,830
Speaker 1: the idea that Bush should started gaining purchase among Republicans.

683
00:37:27,871 --> 00:37:34,111
Speaker 1: After his loss, Attorney General Bill Barr gave an interview

684
00:37:34,111 --> 00:37:36,350
Speaker 1: in which he said the Iran Contra defendants had been

685
00:37:36,351 --> 00:37:40,270
Speaker 1: treated very unfairly. Barr declined to say at the time

686
00:37:40,311 --> 00:37:43,431
Speaker 1: whether he was advising the president to issue pardons, but

687
00:37:43,591 --> 00:37:46,631
Speaker 1: years later he would confirm that he was strongly in favor.

688
00:37:47,911 --> 00:37:50,270
Speaker 1: John Barrett says he didn't think pardons were likely.

689
00:37:51,151 --> 00:37:54,911
Speaker 11: The things that were kind of in play between the

690
00:37:54,951 --> 00:37:57,591
Speaker 11: election and the end of nineteen ninety two, or between

691
00:37:57,631 --> 00:38:00,431
Speaker 11: the election and Christmas, where that George Bush had withheld

692
00:38:00,471 --> 00:38:04,310
Speaker 11: responsive documents that the White House Counsel's Office had been

693
00:38:04,391 --> 00:38:08,911
Speaker 11: part of wittingly or unwittingly withholding those documents, and that

694
00:38:08,991 --> 00:38:11,631
Speaker 11: George Bush was on notice that he was likely to

695
00:38:11,631 --> 00:38:14,551
Speaker 11: be called as a witness in the Weinberger trial. All

696
00:38:14,591 --> 00:38:18,511
Speaker 11: of that added up to a situation where I thought

697
00:38:18,551 --> 00:38:22,551
Speaker 11: it would be unlikely, because of the self interest, that

698
00:38:23,391 --> 00:38:27,831
Speaker 11: is palpable, that President Bush would exercise his pardon power.

699
00:38:28,631 --> 00:38:29,191
Speaker 2: I was wrong.

700
00:38:30,551 --> 00:38:31,710
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.

701
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:42,031
Speaker 10: The Christmas Eve bombshall from President Bush today.

702
00:38:42,111 --> 00:38:45,710
Speaker 13: It ended President Bush pardon Casper Weinberger, accused of lying

703
00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:48,790
Speaker 13: to Congress and five others in the scandal. Bush called

704
00:38:48,791 --> 00:38:50,911
Speaker 13: it an act of healing the Iran Contra.

705
00:38:50,951 --> 00:38:54,710
Speaker 1: Prosecutor pardons were announced on Christmas Eve. There were six

706
00:38:54,750 --> 00:38:57,631
Speaker 1: in all, three of them going to people associated with

707
00:38:57,671 --> 00:39:01,911
Speaker 1: the CIA, and one to former State Department official Elliott Abrams.

708
00:39:02,270 --> 00:39:05,310
Speaker 1: Another went to Bud McFarlane, who had pleaded guilty to

709
00:39:05,351 --> 00:39:09,990
Speaker 1: withholding information from Congress. MacFarlane's colleagues Oliver North and John

710
00:39:10,111 --> 00:39:13,911
Speaker 1: Poindexter didn't need pardons because their convictions had been overturned.

711
00:39:14,911 --> 00:39:19,471
Speaker 1: That left Casper Weinberger, who was still awaiting trial. Bush's

712
00:39:19,471 --> 00:39:21,031
Speaker 1: sixth pardon went to him.

713
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:24,310
Speaker 13: By barring a Weinberger trial and pardoning others who he

714
00:39:24,351 --> 00:39:27,310
Speaker 13: said had acted out of patriotic motives. Bush tried to

715
00:39:27,351 --> 00:39:29,911
Speaker 13: put the Iran Contra prosecutors out of business.

716
00:39:30,471 --> 00:39:34,430
Speaker 1: In announcing the pardons, Bush called Casper Weinberger a true

717
00:39:34,551 --> 00:39:38,031
Speaker 1: American patriot. Some may argue that this will prevent full

718
00:39:38,071 --> 00:39:40,871
Speaker 1: disclosure of some new key facts to the American people.

719
00:39:40,911 --> 00:39:45,111
Speaker 1: Bush said that is not true. The matter has been

720
00:39:45,151 --> 00:39:53,910
Speaker 1: investigated exhaustively. Lawrence Walsh wasted no time in reacting, and

721
00:39:54,031 --> 00:39:55,071
Speaker 1: he held nothing back.

722
00:39:55,551 --> 00:40:00,031
Speaker 10: Prosecutor Walsh responded today, saying the pardons undermined the principle

723
00:40:00,071 --> 00:40:01,551
Speaker 10: that no man is above the law.

724
00:40:02,111 --> 00:40:05,111
Speaker 1: Walsh called the pardoners the last card in the cover up.

725
00:40:06,190 --> 00:40:09,111
Speaker 1: He also disclosed for the first time the existence of

726
00:40:09,111 --> 00:40:12,031
Speaker 1: Bush's diaries and the fact that they had been withheld

727
00:40:12,111 --> 00:40:13,951
Speaker 1: from prosecutors until after the election.

728
00:40:14,671 --> 00:40:18,230
Speaker 5: He is pardoning a person who committed the same type

729
00:40:18,871 --> 00:40:23,071
Speaker 5: of misconduct that he did. President Bush withheld notes that

730
00:40:23,111 --> 00:40:25,991
Speaker 5: should have been made available to Congress in the spring

731
00:40:26,031 --> 00:40:28,830
Speaker 5: of nineteen eighty seven and into my office at the

732
00:40:28,871 --> 00:40:29,511
Speaker 5: same time.

733
00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:33,190
Speaker 1: To some, it looked an awful lot like Bush had

734
00:40:33,230 --> 00:40:36,551
Speaker 1: pardoned Casper Weinberger in order to avoid further scrutiny of

735
00:40:36,551 --> 00:40:40,710
Speaker 1: his own role in Iran contrat and his newly discovered diaries.

736
00:40:41,071 --> 00:40:43,831
Speaker 13: The President acted as he faces a demand for notes

737
00:40:43,871 --> 00:40:46,591
Speaker 13: that could still be embarrassing. Now he may try to

738
00:40:46,671 --> 00:40:49,990
Speaker 13: resist on the grounds that Iran contract is all over.

739
00:40:50,911 --> 00:40:54,871
Speaker 11: I can't speak to President Bush's thought process or the

740
00:40:54,951 --> 00:40:57,551
Speaker 11: lawyers who are advising him, Boyden Gray and Bill Barr,

741
00:40:57,951 --> 00:41:01,471
Speaker 11: but it's a sure thing that if Bush had testified

742
00:41:01,911 --> 00:41:05,951
Speaker 11: in the Weinberger trial and his diary had been produced,

743
00:41:05,991 --> 00:41:07,951
Speaker 11: I mean, we would have gotten and produced it and

744
00:41:07,951 --> 00:41:12,071
Speaker 11: shared with the defense, he would have been examined or

745
00:41:12,111 --> 00:41:17,710
Speaker 11: cross examined or refreshed based on those diary entries. And

746
00:41:17,791 --> 00:41:20,350
Speaker 11: a pardon made it a sure thing that there would

747
00:41:20,391 --> 00:41:22,911
Speaker 11: be no trial, and thus that he would never have

748
00:41:22,991 --> 00:41:25,870
Speaker 11: to testify, and thus that those diary entries would never

749
00:41:25,911 --> 00:41:27,671
Speaker 11: be used in trial evidence.

750
00:41:28,631 --> 00:41:31,271
Speaker 1: Walsh was asked if he might bring criminal charges against

751
00:41:31,311 --> 00:41:35,190
Speaker 1: Bush after he left the White House. Walsh indicated that

752
00:41:35,230 --> 00:41:36,471
Speaker 1: he had not ruled it out.

753
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:40,071
Speaker 10: Is it remotely conceivable there could be a prosecution of

754
00:41:40,151 --> 00:41:41,351
Speaker 10: President Bush?

755
00:41:41,391 --> 00:41:45,071
Speaker 5: I could not comment on that. He's a subject now

756
00:41:45,151 --> 00:41:46,270
Speaker 5: of our investigation.

757
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:50,031
Speaker 1: Bush, meanwhile, was devastated by his loss in the election.

758
00:41:50,911 --> 00:41:53,391
Speaker 1: In his diary, he noted that he had slept well

759
00:41:53,551 --> 00:41:55,270
Speaker 1: except for waking up in the middle of the night

760
00:41:55,631 --> 00:42:00,431
Speaker 1: thrashing around about the prosecutor. But after some consideration, the

761
00:42:00,471 --> 00:42:03,511
Speaker 1: prosecutor and his team decided not to charge Bush with

762
00:42:03,631 --> 00:42:03,991
Speaker 1: a crime.

763
00:42:05,151 --> 00:42:09,551
Speaker 11: We had extensive discussions. We all of course reassembled, you know,

764
00:42:10,111 --> 00:42:12,270
Speaker 11: right after Christmas or right after the first of the year,

765
00:42:12,750 --> 00:42:17,711
Speaker 11: and the consensus of the office was that, you know, really,

766
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:21,750
Speaker 11: this was the conclusion. A former president of the United

767
00:42:21,791 --> 00:42:27,271
Speaker 11: States is a very special category of subject. It's almost

768
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:31,631
Speaker 11: inconceivable that one would be charged with a federal crime.

769
00:42:32,591 --> 00:42:34,111
Speaker 11: Almost inconceivable.

770
00:42:37,311 --> 00:42:40,591
Speaker 1: For the prosecutors in Walsh's office. The only thing left

771
00:42:40,631 --> 00:42:43,591
Speaker 1: to do was assemble their findings and present them to Congress.

772
00:42:44,831 --> 00:42:48,031
Speaker 1: Their twelve hundred page report was released in January of

773
00:42:48,111 --> 00:42:52,270
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, seven years after Walsh was first appointed.

774
00:42:52,671 --> 00:42:56,871
Speaker 10: After a seven year investigation, Independent Council Lawrence Walsh concluded

775
00:42:56,911 --> 00:42:59,671
Speaker 10: that there was a cover up by the Reagan administration

776
00:43:00,071 --> 00:43:02,911
Speaker 10: of its nineteen eighty five arms sales to Iran for

777
00:43:02,991 --> 00:43:05,951
Speaker 10: the purpose of releasing hostages and its funding of the

778
00:43:06,071 --> 00:43:07,631
Speaker 10: Nicaraguan contras.

779
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:11,591
Speaker 1: Walsh's conclusion was that President Reagan had not committed any crime,

780
00:43:12,871 --> 00:43:15,151
Speaker 1: but that he had quote set the stage for the

781
00:43:15,151 --> 00:43:18,471
Speaker 1: illegal activities of others by encouraging and in general terms,

782
00:43:18,631 --> 00:43:23,671
Speaker 1: ordering support of the contras. Bush hadn't committed any crimes either,

783
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:27,271
Speaker 1: Walsh said, and it turned out his diaries didn't contain

784
00:43:27,431 --> 00:43:30,950
Speaker 1: much new information. Despite that first entry, in which Bush

785
00:43:30,991 --> 00:43:33,471
Speaker 1: called himself one of the few people who knew the details,

786
00:43:34,151 --> 00:43:37,951
Speaker 1: most of what followed was pretty anodyne. In a press conference,

787
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:41,391
Speaker 1: Walsh emphasized that Iran Contra had not been the work

788
00:43:41,431 --> 00:43:44,631
Speaker 1: of a few rogue operators, that it had come from

789
00:43:44,671 --> 00:43:48,031
Speaker 1: the top. Even if Reagan himself wasn't fully engaged in

790
00:43:48,071 --> 00:43:49,391
Speaker 1: the details of what was happening.

791
00:43:49,951 --> 00:43:52,951
Speaker 5: They didn't run off by themselves to violate the law.

792
00:43:53,471 --> 00:43:56,750
Speaker 5: They thought they were carrying out his wishes. They had

793
00:43:56,791 --> 00:44:01,151
Speaker 5: the backing of very high government officials in the agencies,

794
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:05,230
Speaker 5: in the State Department, the Defense Department, and the CIA,

795
00:44:05,351 --> 00:44:07,511
Speaker 5: so it is in no sense of rogue operation.

796
00:44:08,391 --> 00:44:12,271
Speaker 1: Walsh reserved his harshest criticism from Bush's decision to issue pardons.

797
00:44:13,071 --> 00:44:15,471
Speaker 5: I think President Bush will always have to answer for

798
00:44:15,511 --> 00:44:19,551
Speaker 5: his pardons. I think that was the most unjustifiable act.

799
00:44:20,111 --> 00:44:23,711
Speaker 5: There was no public purpose served by that President. Reagan,

800
00:44:23,951 --> 00:44:27,111
Speaker 5: on the other hand, was carrying out policies that he

801
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:30,791
Speaker 5: strongly believed in. He thought he was serving the country

802
00:44:30,831 --> 00:44:34,951
Speaker 5: and what he did, and the fact that he disregarded

803
00:44:35,591 --> 00:44:38,750
Speaker 5: certain laws and statutes in the course of it was

804
00:44:38,791 --> 00:44:42,831
Speaker 5: not because of any possibly self centered purpose.

805
00:44:45,591 --> 00:44:49,111
Speaker 1: By the time Walsh's report was published, George H. W.

806
00:44:49,351 --> 00:44:52,711
Speaker 1: Bush was living as a retiree in Houston, and Ronald

807
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:57,910
Speaker 1: Reagan was suffering privately from the early stages of Alzheimer's Bill.

808
00:44:57,951 --> 00:45:00,711
Speaker 1: Clinton was dealing with the fallout from a magazine article

809
00:45:00,911 --> 00:45:03,350
Speaker 1: in which a group of Arkansas state troopers alleged that

810
00:45:03,391 --> 00:45:05,470
Speaker 1: he had had a sexual encounter in a hotel room

811
00:45:05,551 --> 00:45:10,551
Speaker 1: with a woman named Paula. Meanwhile, in Central America, the

812
00:45:10,671 --> 00:45:13,471
Speaker 1: leader of the Sandinistas, Don yell Or Tega, had been

813
00:45:13,551 --> 00:45:16,631
Speaker 1: voted out as president of Nicaragua and succeeded by the

814
00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:21,391
Speaker 1: US back candidate Violetta Chamorro. As for the American hostages

815
00:45:21,431 --> 00:45:25,511
Speaker 1: in Lebanon, most of them had been released. Two who

816
00:45:25,551 --> 00:45:29,350
Speaker 1: never came home, including CIA station chief William Buckley, had

817
00:45:29,391 --> 00:45:32,431
Speaker 1: died in captivity and their bones had been found on

818
00:45:32,471 --> 00:45:37,031
Speaker 1: the side of the road in Beirut Iran contra was over.

819
00:45:38,391 --> 00:45:41,391
Speaker 1: Any remaining questions about why it happened and who deserved

820
00:45:41,391 --> 00:45:43,991
Speaker 1: the blame would have to be examined through a rear

821
00:45:44,071 --> 00:45:53,390
Speaker 1: view mirror. On March first, two thousand and three, just

822
00:45:53,431 --> 00:45:56,791
Speaker 1: over ten years after Bush issued as Christmas Eve Pardons,

823
00:45:56,871 --> 00:45:59,671
Speaker 1: Oliver North was scheduled to set sail for the Caribbean.

824
00:46:00,991 --> 00:46:03,631
Speaker 1: North was hosting a week long celebration billed as the

825
00:46:03,671 --> 00:46:06,671
Speaker 1: Freedom Cruise to mark the twentieth anniversary of the US

826
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:10,671
Speaker 1: invasion of Grenada. As you heard in our first episode,

827
00:46:10,831 --> 00:46:14,071
Speaker 1: Grenada was taken over by hardline communists during a coup

828
00:46:14,190 --> 00:46:18,271
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three. A group of American medical students

829
00:46:18,311 --> 00:46:20,631
Speaker 1: studying on the island were believed to be in danger.

830
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:24,430
Speaker 1: The Reagan administration saw an opportunity to intervene and strike

831
00:46:24,471 --> 00:46:28,271
Speaker 1: a blow against communism in the Western Hemisphere. Oliver North

832
00:46:28,351 --> 00:46:32,991
Speaker 1: had helped plan the operation. Twenty years later, North was

833
00:46:33,031 --> 00:46:35,591
Speaker 1: set to lead a private tour of Grenada as part

834
00:46:35,631 --> 00:46:39,191
Speaker 1: of the Freedom Cruise. Other special guests would include Ronald

835
00:46:39,190 --> 00:46:43,111
Speaker 1: Reagan's Attorney General, Ed Meese, but at the last minute

836
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:46,911
Speaker 1: Oliver North had to cancel his trip target Iraq.

837
00:46:47,511 --> 00:46:48,831
Speaker 17: Here is Tom Brokaw.

838
00:46:49,631 --> 00:46:50,511
Speaker 9: Good evening everyone.

839
00:46:50,591 --> 00:46:53,471
Speaker 8: It has been an evening of tense expectations.

840
00:46:53,511 --> 00:46:55,631
Speaker 3: The forty eight hour doubline for Saddam Hussein.

841
00:46:55,671 --> 00:46:58,831
Speaker 1: President George W. Bush was preparing to invade Iraq.

842
00:46:59,511 --> 00:47:02,231
Speaker 14: Saddam Hussein will be stopped.

843
00:47:02,911 --> 00:47:05,551
Speaker 1: For the past two years, North had been hosting a

844
00:47:05,591 --> 00:47:09,351
Speaker 1: show on Fox News called War Stories, about extraordinary events

845
00:47:09,391 --> 00:47:10,191
Speaker 1: in military head.

846
00:47:10,631 --> 00:47:11,430
Speaker 2: I'm Oliver North.

847
00:47:11,591 --> 00:47:12,871
Speaker 7: Welcome to War Stories.

848
00:47:13,230 --> 00:47:16,431
Speaker 11: This is the deck of the USS New Jersey now permanently.

849
00:47:16,791 --> 00:47:19,431
Speaker 1: Now Fox News was sending North to the Middle East.

850
00:47:19,591 --> 00:47:20,071
Speaker 5: Now Oli.

851
00:47:20,190 --> 00:47:21,431
Speaker 12: North joins us on the phone.

852
00:47:21,471 --> 00:47:23,750
Speaker 11: He is on the east bank of the Tigris River

853
00:47:23,831 --> 00:47:24,870
Speaker 11: looking into the city.

854
00:47:24,871 --> 00:47:27,351
Speaker 15: In fact, the camera's probably panning around towards oli.

855
00:47:27,831 --> 00:47:29,111
Speaker 12: Oli, of course, is with the.

856
00:47:29,351 --> 00:47:32,031
Speaker 1: On March twelfth, while the Grenada Freedom crewise went on

857
00:47:32,071 --> 00:47:35,351
Speaker 1: without him, North appeared on the Fox News show Hannity

858
00:47:35,391 --> 00:47:37,351
Speaker 1: and Colmes to talk about the mood on the ground.

859
00:47:38,591 --> 00:47:40,831
Speaker 1: These marines have been out here for almost two months

860
00:47:40,951 --> 00:47:41,591
Speaker 1: and they're ready.

861
00:47:41,671 --> 00:47:44,471
Speaker 15: North said, We're kind of like divers at the end

862
00:47:44,511 --> 00:47:47,911
Speaker 15: of the board, poised and ready to plunge and waiting

863
00:47:47,951 --> 00:47:50,190
Speaker 15: for somebody to give us the signal to jump off

864
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:51,671
Speaker 15: the board we've got.

865
00:47:51,671 --> 00:47:53,671
Speaker 1: North said, one of the nice things about being with

866
00:47:53,710 --> 00:47:56,911
Speaker 1: the troops was that everyone was blissfully unaware of anti

867
00:47:56,951 --> 00:48:01,911
Speaker 1: war protesters and the machinations of politicians in Washington. Out Here,

868
00:48:02,071 --> 00:48:04,790
Speaker 1: the focuses on the mission, North said, and what they

869
00:48:04,831 --> 00:48:07,270
Speaker 1: really want to do is simply get on with it.

870
00:48:19,311 --> 00:48:22,430
Speaker 1: And that is it for this season of Fiasco. Keep

871
00:48:22,471 --> 00:48:24,951
Speaker 1: an eye out for our season on the Bengazi scandal,

872
00:48:25,111 --> 00:48:29,391
Speaker 1: which will soon be appearing in this feed. For a

873
00:48:29,431 --> 00:48:32,711
Speaker 1: list of books, articles, and documentaries we used in our research,

874
00:48:33,071 --> 00:48:35,951
Speaker 1: follow the link in the show notes. Fiasco is a

875
00:48:35,991 --> 00:48:39,551
Speaker 1: production of Prolog Projects, and it's distributed by Pushkin Industries.

876
00:48:40,311 --> 00:48:43,911
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Andrew Parsons, Madeline kaplan, Ula Kulpa,

877
00:48:44,071 --> 00:48:48,350
Speaker 1: and me Leon Mayvock. Our editor was Camilla Hammer. Our

878
00:48:48,391 --> 00:48:52,710
Speaker 1: researcher was Francis Carr. Additional archival research from Caitlin Nicholas.

879
00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:56,511
Speaker 1: Our music is by Nick Silvester. Our theme song is

880
00:48:56,511 --> 00:48:59,870
Speaker 1: by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at

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Speaker 1: Chips and y Audio, mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Rayphiel

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Speaker 1: and Johnny Vince Evans. Copyright council provided by Peter Yassi

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Speaker 1: at Yassi Butler PLOC. Thanks to Brian Bonnell, Carrie Baker,

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Speaker 1: Melissa Kaplan, TC Winter, Alice Gregory, Marcella Nadel, Caitlin Phillips,

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Speaker 1: ed Winsteed, Ryan Swikert, Mark Feeney, Shane Harris, Malcolm Burne,

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00:49:23,710 --> 00:49:28,791
Speaker 1: Joe Weisberg, Jacob Weisberg, Stephen Fisher, Ed Claris, Alexia Badott,

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Speaker 1: Jessica Hanson, Evan Bell, Lisa de Leone, Jennifer Valdez, Adam Davidson,

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Speaker 1: Laura Mayer, Michael Wright and Jill Burkhart, Richard Plepler, Ken

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Speaker 1: Druckerman and everyone at left right, Jill Abramson, John Davidson

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Speaker 1: and Interface Media Group, Matt Sachs, Jamie Lynes, Becky ver

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Speaker 1: Haey and everyone at Luminary. Thanks also to Sam Graham, Felsen,

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00:49:50,190 --> 00:49:54,310
Speaker 1: Kotzikam Kova, Sirea Shockley, and Sam Lee Special thanks to

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Speaker 1: Alexandra Garretton, Sarah Bruguer and the whole team at Pushkin Industries,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for listening,