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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Radio news.

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Speaker 3: I sold Duppers dot Com, Amazon, and I wasn't I

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Speaker 3: made generational wealth because I had nobody in my family

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Speaker 3: ever made money before. But I was depressed. And my

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Speaker 3: co founder at the time of Vinnie Burr, we basically

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Speaker 3: both felt the same way. And after the money was

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Speaker 3: wired to our bank account, we sort of said, like,

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Speaker 3: we should be celebrating right now, and we're both like depressed,

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Speaker 3: and we went and we had a drink and we're

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Speaker 3: just like, man, Like, it just goes to show you

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Speaker 3: wasn't about the money. Like the mission that we had

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Speaker 3: set out was kind of like crushed. Alex.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is a very special episode of

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Speaker 1: the Deal in the sense that we're bringing your business

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Speaker 1: partner in for a different kind of conversation. Mark LORI,

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Speaker 1: who is he to you?

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Speaker 2: Well, he's one of my best friends. He's one of

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Speaker 2: my most important partners. He is a mentor, someone who

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Speaker 2: I look up to, someone who we learn a lot

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Speaker 2: from each other, and quite honestly, has been a great

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Speaker 2: partnership because we have complimentary set of skills.

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Speaker 1: What I think about is this entrepreneur who keeps finding

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Speaker 1: these new ways to win. So you think about selling

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Speaker 1: diapers dot Com, that was a real company to Amazon

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Speaker 1: for more than five hundred million dollars. That actually is

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Speaker 1: an acquisition that he's not so happy with. So he

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Speaker 1: goes and does it again. He creates jet dot Com,

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Speaker 1: sells that to Walmart, and as you say, from deck

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Speaker 1: to exit, in twenty six months, three plus billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: What unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: And now he's onto the next thing. Wonder he talks

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Speaker 1: a lot about that. Big takeaway for me is his

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Speaker 1: willingness to just either make a mistake or change his mind.

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Speaker 1: You see, I would imagine almost every day talking to him,

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Speaker 1: he is truly a phenomenal talent. He talks about six gear,

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Speaker 1: which means working one hundred hours a week, twenty hours

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Speaker 1: a day. He has an incredible engine, and this is

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Speaker 1: his baby.

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Speaker 3: Wonder.

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Speaker 2: He's raised over a billion dollars. He just finished a

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Speaker 2: seven hundred million dollar raise. The company just got a

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Speaker 2: praised at three point five billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if we have spent as much time

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Speaker 1: with anyone yet talking so in depth and in such

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Speaker 1: a nuanced way about entrepreneurship and the mechanics of it.

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Speaker 1: It's just fascinating to hear someone who can talk so

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Speaker 1: eloquently about what seemed to be soft things in very

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Speaker 1: hard terms. On this episode of The Deal, Mark Lori, So, Mark,

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself.

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Speaker 3: I'm Mark Laurie. I'm the founder and CEO of Wonder

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Speaker 3: Group and co owner with Alex in the Minnesota Timberwalls

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Speaker 3: and Links.

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Speaker 1: So we should say this is a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a different episode of the Deal, but I think that's

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Speaker 1: the best place. Like how do you guys come together?

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Speaker 1: Like how does this all happen that these two guys

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Speaker 1: are in business together.

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Speaker 2: What I'm going to start with you full disclosure, Mark

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Speaker 2: and I are partners in several businesses, including the timbleles

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Speaker 2: and the Links, as you said, But how we came

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Speaker 2: together it was actually funny. Is around COVID and we

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Speaker 2: had a mutual friend that kept telling me you have

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Speaker 2: to meet this Walmart guy. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm really busy with the Mets now, but I wasn't

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Speaker 2: expected to meet Mark, and we kind of hit it

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Speaker 2: off right away. We're both in New Yorkers, we both

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Speaker 2: have two daughters. We both come from like humble beginnings,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, I don't know what this

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Speaker 2: means about, but I want to do something with Mark,

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of how it started.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember about that.

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Speaker 3: I remember being a big Yankees fan growing up a

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Speaker 3: New Yorker, heard things about Alex before we met, and

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Speaker 3: when we actually met on Zoom the first time, I

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Speaker 3: was just a little bit surprised at how down to

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Speaker 3: earthy was, how we shared a common set of values

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Speaker 3: and he was different than I think the perception of

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Speaker 3: him in the world with me and others, and yeah,

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Speaker 3: we just really hit it off.

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Speaker 1: Alex and I have had this interview circled on the

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Speaker 1: calendar for a long time because from my perspective for

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Speaker 1: where I said, this is one of the most fascinating partnerships,

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Speaker 1: especially when it comes to sports. So let's talk about that, because,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, you're in the midst of the Mets

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Speaker 1: deal when you guys meet, and that I believe creates

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Speaker 1: this catalyst for you guys to really come together. What

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Speaker 1: was it about sports that appealed to you Mark?

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Speaker 3: For me, I don't know, it wasn't like, well, I

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Speaker 3: see a business opportunity to go after. It was driven

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Speaker 3: by a passion for sports. I think Alex and I

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Speaker 3: share this though, but we went to Minnesota and originally

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Speaker 3: met with Glenn and Becky and they shared sort of

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Speaker 3: the thirty year history of the team and how the

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Speaker 3: city was sort of down on it. There's some events

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Speaker 3: that happened in Minnesota, and it just sports have the

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Speaker 3: ability to make people happy and aspire people and things.

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Speaker 3: And were both like this underdog. We would like the underdog.

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Speaker 3: We feel like we're underdogs, and we kind of just

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Speaker 3: felt this like story in Minnesota of the underdog, and

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Speaker 3: I think we just had this drive to say, man,

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Speaker 3: let's get in there and really, let's put our energy

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Speaker 3: into this and let's like help turn this thing around.

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Speaker 3: And if we do that, we could add a lot

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Speaker 3: of collective happiness in the city, the fans. Players like

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Speaker 3: there was some drive for me. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you felt the same way, but it was like the

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Speaker 3: money was second. There was like okay, and like NBA

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Speaker 3: is a great league, it's growing, it's progressive. These team

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Speaker 3: valuations been going up. It's going to be a good investment.

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't like we're just searching like pe Firm

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Speaker 3: or something, searching for some good investment. Interesting, it was

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Speaker 3: really the story and the history of Minnesota that really

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Speaker 3: was aspiring.

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Speaker 1: That gives me an opportunity to ask a question that

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Speaker 1: I've asked Alex before, but I really want to ask

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Speaker 1: the two of you together, which is kind of getting

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Speaker 1: into this partnership because I would say I know a

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Speaker 1: lot about him, I know a little bit about you,

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Speaker 1: but like, how does it work.

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Speaker 2: I'll go first because I think this will give you

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Speaker 2: an example. As I pulled the curtain back on our

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Speaker 2: early days, I hope you don't mind me sharing some finances,

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Speaker 2: but I'll do it anyways. So within the first ten

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Speaker 2: days of Mark and I getting to know each other,

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Speaker 2: it went from wow, okay, like we're in the middle

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Speaker 2: of COVID, I'm in the middle of the Mets and

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Speaker 2: pursuing that acquisition. In the first ten days, Mark send

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Speaker 2: over his finances, like just the sheet, like his whole

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Speaker 2: balance sheet. I was like, Okay, that was quick, Like no, Nda, no,

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Speaker 2: I mean just send it to me. I was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is aggressive when that's quite an attachment. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean that's like first date boom. And then the second

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Speaker 2: thing he did, he said, Hey, I like this. I

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Speaker 2: like the way we're driving here, I'm in for twenty

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Speaker 2: five million bucks. I'm like, wow, okay, finance is twenty

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Speaker 2: five million bucks within ten days. He was so invested.

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Speaker 2: He's like, I'm good for two hundred let's go. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, this is my kind of partner man.

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Speaker 2: But it was example of him trusting his gut, him

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Speaker 2: being a New Yorker. We both loved the Mets. We

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Speaker 2: thought it was an incredible opportunity. I would say, not

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Speaker 2: the greatest business opportunity, but an opportunity we can exercise

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Speaker 2: our passion what we can do for the city. We're

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Speaker 2: talking about how can we impact young kids? Are on math.

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Speaker 2: He's a math guy. I'm a baseball guy. So that's

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Speaker 2: how we started. And I very quickly found out I

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Speaker 2: wanted to do things with Mark outside of the Mets

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Speaker 2: and other things, and I can learn a lot from him,

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Speaker 2: and I thought our skills were very complimentary to each other.

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Speaker 1: What did you see in him?

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Speaker 3: I think I was really impressed with Alex's intellect and empathy.

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Speaker 3: I think we share a lot of the same core values.

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Speaker 3: I think that struck me. I think Alex is very trusting.

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Speaker 3: I think we know with trust comes from some great things,

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Speaker 3: but there's also downside to it, and I think we're

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Speaker 3: both similar in accepting the downside. Sometimes you're overly trusting,

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Speaker 3: you get burned. That's kind of a byproduct, but there's

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Speaker 3: something magical that happens when you trust. I think we

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Speaker 3: were both like loyal. I think that's important. I think

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Speaker 3: we're both missionary, not mercenary. It's not about like every dollar,

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Speaker 3: every penny, like striking a deal. We deal make the

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Speaker 3: same way. I think when we did the deal with

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Speaker 3: Glenn and Becky, it was very much like just kind

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Speaker 3: of tell us what you want and we're good. We

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Speaker 3: didn't have to like squeeze or anything. And then I

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Speaker 3: think even when we operate on a data basis, we

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Speaker 3: do a lot of stuff handshake, there's like things that

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Speaker 3: we're signing together. It's very very trusting, so that builds,

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Speaker 3: that builds a bond. I think Alex is also incredibly knowledgeable,

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Speaker 3: obviously in sports and yes the business sports, but more

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Speaker 3: he's been in and knows what it's like to be

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Speaker 3: a player at the most elite level, and it's been

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Speaker 3: super helpful I think with helping to mentor the players

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Speaker 3: on the walls understand what it means to create a

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Speaker 3: great culture.

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Speaker 1: And so were you guys like texting all day? Like

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Speaker 1: do you call each other?

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Speaker 3: Like what is that?

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Speaker 1: What is this relationship?

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Speaker 3: Look like?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot. I mean sometimes we talked five or

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Speaker 2: six times a day. I mean that's been the average lately.

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Speaker 2: But you know, even with Glenn and Becky, their experience

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Speaker 2: was so good. When we went down to Apris in Minnesota,

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Speaker 2: we did not negotiate. He said the terms price, We

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Speaker 2: did it and.

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Speaker 3: We got in.

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Speaker 2: And in all the conversations we've had around the Timberwolves,

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Speaker 2: I don't think we've ever talked about revenues. It's really

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Speaker 2: been about how do we make it better?

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Speaker 3: Inputs versus outputs exactly? Exactly would say more about that,

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Speaker 3: inputs versus outputs. You know, like in a company, you

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Speaker 3: could either be focused on what is the revenue, what

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Speaker 3: is the profit? Those are like output numbers. I care

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Speaker 3: less about that. I care more about the inputs that

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Speaker 3: will lead to good outputs in the future. So making

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Speaker 3: sure because you can you can hit out get good

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Speaker 3: outputs with bad inputs.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about like sustainable, the right hires, the

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Speaker 1: right investments, the right I think in order to create

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Speaker 1: a sustainable culture of winning and eventually profit over a long.

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Speaker 3: Sustain period of time. You have to make the right

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Speaker 3: investments in the inputs that will lead to the outputs.

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Speaker 3: Maybe not today because it's an investment, but five or

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Speaker 3: ten or twenty years down the road.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back as we go through your business life.

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Speaker 1: You know, as we were researching this, and obviously Alex

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Speaker 1: knows so much about you already, and I've gotten a

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Speaker 1: chance to talk to you a few times. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at type in diapers dot com or jet

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Speaker 1: dot com into Google, they lead you just to some

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Speaker 1: interesting places. They led you to some interesting places too.

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Speaker 1: So take us into your life as an entrepreneur diapers

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Speaker 1: dot com. Just let's start there.

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Speaker 3: I have to say, though, I was born an entrepreneur. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: When I was four years old, you know, the chief

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Speaker 3: just said what do you want to be when you

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Speaker 3: grow up? And I said, I want to be a farmer.

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Speaker 3: And she was like, farmer. Why farmer? And I said,

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Speaker 3: because they grow stuff from nothing. And that was sort

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Speaker 3: of just the way I was sort of like born

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Speaker 3: into the world. I loved the idea of growing stuff

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Speaker 3: from nothing. As a kid, I didn't know anything other

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Speaker 3: than farmer, grows stuff from nothing, didn't know about startups

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Speaker 3: and things like that. And my parents had me when

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Speaker 3: they were twenty years old. So I spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of time with my grandmother and grandfather, and so I

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Speaker 3: came home. I was the first person in my family

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Speaker 3: ever to go to college. So I came home with

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Speaker 3: this this crayon thing that said what do you want

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Speaker 3: to be when you grew up? And I said farmer?

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Speaker 3: And I showed it to my grandmother and she says farmer. No, No,

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Speaker 3: no doctor or lawyer. And I said no, no, farmer,

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Speaker 3: doctor or lawyer. And she was wanting me to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, the first professional, yeah, in the family. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I was. I did every entrepreneurial business you can

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Speaker 3: imagine as a kid, car wash, newspaper, route, recycling, baseball cards, lemonade,

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Speaker 3: stands like anything you could think of it did, And

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Speaker 3: just was born with this sort of dry to want

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Speaker 3: to like work hard and build something and.

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Speaker 1: Entrepreneurial and casinos as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a little of that too, A little of that too.

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Speaker 3: We used to go down to ac and sneak into

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Speaker 3: the casino in high school, get all dressed up and

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Speaker 3: like jacket and stuff like that and see how long

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Speaker 3: we could stay there before we got kicked out on age.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, then I graduated in ninety three. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: like you would just go work for a startup at

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Speaker 3: that time. It was still kind of early days of tech,

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Speaker 3: and so I went to work at a bank. Started

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Speaker 3: out in Banker's Trust and then credits was first Boston

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Speaker 3: San Jua Bank. So I was in financial risk management

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Speaker 3: there and one day, like this is in the like

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Speaker 3: late nineties, tech is booming, yeah, and all everyone's talking

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Speaker 3: about is these like hot startups, tech companies and things,

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Speaker 3: and I'd save a decent amount of money, and I

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Speaker 3: just one day said that's it. I'm going to be

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Speaker 3: an entrepreneur. I woke up that morning and said I'm

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Speaker 3: going to do it. I walked into my boss's office

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Speaker 3: and I said I'm quitting to be an entrepreneur. And

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Speaker 3: he's like what He's like, get out of here, go

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Speaker 3: back to the work. You know much I'm paying you

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Speaker 3: is what he say. What he said, And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: I got to do this. He's like, all right, you

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Speaker 3: must have a great idea, and I'm like no, I

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Speaker 3: just need to do this because I'm like all in

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Speaker 3: kind of guy, Like I was just doing banking so

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Speaker 3: intensely I couldn't like focus. So he said, you're serious.

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Speaker 3: I said yeah. He said, all right, well, I don't

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Speaker 3: know what you're going to do, but like put me

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Speaker 3: down for fifty thousand. So I got that fifty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars investment. And I didn't know anyone else with money,

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Speaker 3: so I asked, I said, well, now you're my investor,

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Speaker 3: do you have any other people that you could recommend?

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Speaker 3: And he recommended a couple of people. They recommended a

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Speaker 3: couple of people. I wind up raising money from sixty

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Speaker 3: five like angel investors with an average tex size of

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Speaker 3: like eighty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So that was like the first business.

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Speaker 3: This would be four diapers a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is in the early days. How old were

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Speaker 2: you when he said he was paying a lot of money?

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Speaker 2: How much was he paying you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So I was twenty seven years old, five hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand a year. Wow then, which was big money? Wow,

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Speaker 3: it was big money. I was executive is big money?

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Speaker 2: You're one of the top earners.

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Speaker 3: I was executive vice president of the bank at twenty

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Speaker 3: seven funny story. But I went to see this guy,

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Speaker 3: Jerry Goldstein a couple of years later after i'd been

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Speaker 3: out of the air and doing my startup, and had

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Speaker 3: lunch with him and he's like, I still can't believe you.

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Speaker 3: You know, you just quit on me and just did

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Speaker 3: this entrepreneur thing. But but it seems like it's working

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Speaker 3: out great. He's like, how old are you now? You're

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Speaker 3: thirty five. I said no, I'm like twenty nine. And

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Speaker 3: he said that's impossible. And I said, what do you mean.

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Speaker 3: He goes, well, but then when I hired you to

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Speaker 3: be the EVP, you were only twenty six years old.

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Speaker 3: That's impossible. He said, no, I was twenty six. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he said, yeah, I guess the bald head threw me off.

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Speaker 1: This is like, this is a huge breakthrough for the

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Speaker 1: ball This is amazing.

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Speaker 2: It was a shameless for you guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, we're doing it. Mark. One of the.

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Speaker 2: Stories that it resonated so well with me is either

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Speaker 2: ultimate missionary not mercenary. You're all in you talk about mission,

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Speaker 2: but you said a story talking about baseball cards. You

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Speaker 2: had a Reggie Jackson story, and I think this story,

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Speaker 2: I think we were ten or eleven years old, tell

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Speaker 2: me that story because I think it tells me a

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Speaker 2: lot about who you are and what you mean.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's still triggering to this day. So fifth grade,

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Speaker 3: never forget it. It was a you know baseball cards

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Speaker 3: when you used to have to flip them heads or

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Speaker 3: tails on the floor. There was this bully and it

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Speaker 3: was a flipping for Reggie Jackson. And originally I thought

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Speaker 3: it was going to be whoever flip more heads wins

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Speaker 3: Reggie Jackson. And he's like, no, you gotta flip ten

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Speaker 3: heads in a row. Wow. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: then out of our place, like, no, you're playing you

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Speaker 3: go like and I was like, and I flipped ten

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Speaker 3: heads in a row, and I was like, wow, I

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Speaker 3: did it. Even though he forced me into this, I

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Speaker 3: got the Reggie Jackson and I was so happy. I'm

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Speaker 3: walking away and he comes over and he punches me

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Speaker 3: in the face takes the Reggie Jackson. So I go

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Speaker 3: and tell the teacher. Now I'm like ten years old.

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Speaker 3: They go tell the teacher and I say, hey, I

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Speaker 3: won this Reggie Jackson. And he punched me and took

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Speaker 3: the card and the teacher said, well, whose card is it?

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Speaker 3: I said, well, it was his card, but then I

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Speaker 3: want it and she's like, well, if it was his card,

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Speaker 3: then I'm sorry. And to this day, bullies are triggering

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Speaker 3: I get I asked like people on an interview, every interview,

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Speaker 3: I asked them, look, get your blood boiling. What gets

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Speaker 3: you just angry? You know, everyone's got that thing. And

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Speaker 3: every once in a while somebody asked me, well, what

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Speaker 3: gets your blood boiling? And it's always the bully.

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Speaker 1: Well, and to that point, I mean, you come up against.

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Speaker 1: What's interesting is as an entrepreneur, you come up against

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Speaker 1: I'm not calling them bullies necessarily, but some of the

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Speaker 1: biggest companies in the world as competitors. And so that

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Speaker 1: is what you just described fuel or is it motivation?

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Speaker 1: Like hell yeah, I can't play it.

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Speaker 3: I can't even describe. And Alex and I talk about

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Speaker 3: this of what it feels like when you're up against

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Speaker 3: a bully. It is and I think Alex said, this

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Speaker 3: is okay, if.

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Speaker 2: I whatever you want, I mean, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm TV.

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Speaker 3: Alex said it. He said, I don't like bullies either.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I rather like lose everything I have than

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Speaker 3: lose to a bully. I'll sleep under a freaking bridge,

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Speaker 3: I don't care, And then like that resonated with me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like the same way. I rather lose every single

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Speaker 3: penny and sleep under a bridge with Alex than lose

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Speaker 3: to a bully. But if it's like, if somebody is reasonable,

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Speaker 3: on the other hand, they can get away with a lot.

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Speaker 3: With me, I'm very empathetic. I think Alex is very similar.

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Speaker 3: That's why we kind of connected and fair and fair,

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Speaker 3: fair and like empathetic and sort of like if somebody

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Speaker 3: comes up to you and says, hey, sorry, like you know,

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Speaker 3: it's like okay, Like it's okay, like even if they

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Speaker 3: screwed you over whatever, like there's empathy there. But if

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Speaker 3: you're going to just play the bully all the way

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Speaker 3: through now, So.

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Speaker 2: Mark, that's one of the things, Jason, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you know this, but this is one of the

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Speaker 2: most incredible things about Mark, besides him being a great

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Speaker 2: business person and a father and all of that and

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Speaker 2: a great friend. How have you been one of the

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Speaker 2: most highest paced seals of all time at Walmart e commerce?

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Speaker 2: You grew that business from eight billion to fifty billion.

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Speaker 2: You've done all these great things. How in thirty plus

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Speaker 2: years having you sued anyone and never been sued. Now

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Speaker 2: that is a feed on his own.

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Speaker 3: How again, it comes to the fairness thing. I can

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Speaker 3: see somebody's point of view, So somebody even is the

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Speaker 3: least bit reasonable, then there's always a resolution, right, And

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Speaker 3: I'm don't have the ego to say, you know, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's the opposite of my dad, And so

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Speaker 3: I learned this from my dad. My dad was the

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Speaker 3: kind of guy that, like, if he thought you were

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Speaker 3: trying to like negotiate too hard, he would just on principle,

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Speaker 3: refuse to negotiate. So I can kind of learn that

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Speaker 3: and like saw the turmoil that that causes when you

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Speaker 3: dig your heels in on principle and ego as opposed

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Speaker 3: to like just check the ego. It doesn't matter if

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Speaker 3: you're going to be reasonable. We'll debate it and debate it,

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Speaker 3: and I'll listen, and there's got to be a resolution

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Speaker 3: because you feel that way for a reason. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's always been the case, is that people. I

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Speaker 3: think when you be vulnerable, people be vulnerable back, you

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Speaker 3: let down your card, you talk it through, and people generally,

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Speaker 3: I think one a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Stitch that together for us with that is a very

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Speaker 1: like humane and empathetic approach to business. Being an entrepreneur

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Speaker 1: is hard, and starting something is hard. And so take

401
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Speaker 1: us back, you make that huge decision, you go in,

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Speaker 1: you quit your half a million dollar a year job,

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Speaker 1: you start a company, then you eventually start diapers dot com. Like,

404
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 1: what's the journey briefly that gets you from I'm working

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street to I'm selling stuff online.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it started very simply. I think I always

407
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Speaker 3: tell people it's the the ideas usually not the thing

408
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 3: that decides whether it works it doesn't work. It all

409
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Speaker 3: comes down to execution and people, and bad ideas can

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Speaker 3: work and good ideas could fail. And the idea was

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Speaker 3: quite simple. People weren't really able to buy diapers online

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Speaker 3: at normal like Walmart target prices. It just didn't exist.

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Speaker 3: If you went on Amazon, which was one of the

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Speaker 3: only places selling diapers, there were ten dollars more in

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Speaker 3: Amazon than they were in Walmart, for example. And it

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Speaker 3: just seems strange to me. I'm like, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a pain. You have babies, you got to go out

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Speaker 3: to the store, you come back. Why is it so expensive?

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Speaker 3: And I think in the early days of e commerce.

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Speaker 3: They just marked up a box of diapers because they're

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Speaker 3: heavy and it costs a lot to ship. And that

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Speaker 3: was kind of like just like the very simple, simple approach.

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Speaker 3: And the thinking at the time was, well, why are

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Speaker 3: diapers in Walmart and Target a lost leader? Why do

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Speaker 3: they not make any money in diapers? And people in retail,

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Speaker 3: because I didn't know retail at the time, said well,

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Speaker 3: that's because they drive people into the store they have

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Speaker 3: to get diapers, and when they come in for the diapers,

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Speaker 3: they buy everything else.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting.

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Speaker 3: So if they can be a loss leader for brick

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Speaker 3: and mortar, why couldn't they be a loss leader online? Now,

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Speaker 3: the loss albeit was a lot larger because you had

434
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 3: to pay for shipping, right, but you also had a

435
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: lot more products online than in the store. So it's

436
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 3: the same thing. If I can lose lose a dollar

437
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 3: and go in to Walmart and make two, great if

438
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 3: I lose ten dollars online on a box of diapers

439
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 3: and make twenty sort of the same math, right, And

440
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,360
Speaker 3: so that was the big vision is let's sell diapers,

441
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 3: deliver them overnight at Walmart prices, build a relationship with parents,

442
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 3: and then sell them everything else.

443
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: I mean on that point of entrepreneurship. I mean, you

444
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: talk about this a lot, in this notion that the

445
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: struggle is real and you embrace it in a lot

446
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: of ways. And how does that come up as you

447
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 1: mentor people?

448
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 3: I always tell peopleople see like the successes, say, oh

449
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 3: you had one successfullized with two three, and now it's

450
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 3: wonders working again. Like you make it look easy and

451
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: it's anything but easy. I just want people to know,

452
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 3: like I feel like I'm eating glass every day and

453
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 3: just hoping that it doesn't get I don't get cut

454
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 3: on the way down, like every day. That's what it

455
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 3: feels like. And it's the entrepreneurs that don't get down

456
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 3: on themselves and think I'm a failure? What am I

457
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 3: even doing this for? I can be doing other things,

458
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 3: Like once your brain goes there, you're done, Like it requires.

459
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: Being an entrepreneur is going to You're gonna face really

460
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: tough times. And it's those that go into what I

461
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: call the sixth gear, where you literally give it every

462
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 3: ounce of energy you've got more than one hundred hours

463
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 3: a week. Your brain is focused and dialid in on

464
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: exactly what you need to do, and you can couple

465
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 3: that with the ability to take risk and try things

466
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 3: and move very, very very quickly, and be comfortable with uncertainty.

467
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: If you've got those attributes as an entrepreneur, you're gonna

468
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 3: be okay, You're going to figure it out. But it's

469
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 3: not easy. It's really really hard and hiring. And I

470
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: take a lot of pride in being more on the

471
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 3: empathetic side of being a leader, because I think at

472
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you can only do so

473
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 3: much as an individual. It's about the team and you

474
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 3: have to create the right culture. Culture in a startup

475
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,879
Speaker 3: is not ping pong tables and stuff like that. It

476
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: really is about how you treat people and the value

477
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 3: system of the organization. That's one part of a framework

478
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 3: that I've created called VCP, Vision Capital, People, and I

479
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: think as a startup founder, you need to focus the

480
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 3: vast majority, if not all, your time, thinking about VCP,

481
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 3: vision Capital and People.

482
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: I want to frame this in the context of Wonder

483
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: because it's such an interesting company. So what does that

484
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: vision say for Wonder?

485
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: So the vision says, we want to create the super

486
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: app for meal time anytime somebody wants to eat a meal, breakfast, lunch,

487
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 3: or dinner. They'd be able to go to the Wonder

488
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: app and whether it be food delivered hot to their door,

489
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: whether it be a Blue Apien meal kit, whether it

490
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 3: be an oven ready meal. Eventually in the future, sure

491
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 3: groceries with recipes. It could be booking a reservation to

492
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 3: a restaurant. Even like anytime you want to eat, you

493
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 3: pull up the app. And then in the future, when

494
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: we are covering all of your meal occasions, we can

495
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: track your health calories, fat, protein, vitamins, we can give

496
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 3: you a health score. We can use AI to meal

497
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: plan based on a budget and how your lifestyle, how

498
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 3: you operate. Some days Friday Saturday, you want food delivered

499
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: to your door. You don't want to do anything. Sometimes Wednesday,

500
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 3: Thursday it's an oven ready meal, you just throw it

501
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: in the oven. On Monday, you're willing to do some

502
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: cooking and make it fun and get a meal kit delivered.

503
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 3: So that's really the big vision for.

504
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: So tonight, I'm in the Upper West Side, I want

505
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: to have dinner. If I go to the Wonder app,

506
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: how many restaurants and how quickly would dinner get to

507
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: my house?

508
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: So right now we've got twenty five restaurants live on

509
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 3: the Upper west Side on the winder app, and you

510
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: can order from all the restaurants and a single delivery

511
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 3: and a single checkout, so everybody in the family can

512
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: order from a different restaurant. All the food will be

513
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: cooked and delivered with our own delivery network in under

514
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: thirty minutes, and the food's going to come hot because

515
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: we won't deliver more than six minutes and so from

516
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 3: the time it leaves the kitchen til tom it gets

517
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: to your doors maximum six minutes in the Upper west Side,

518
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: So this food's coming hot. It's great quality, get multi

519
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: restaurant ordering, it's on time, it's accurate. So there's a

520
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 3: lot of benefits of vertical kind of creation.

521
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 2: Have you got from some of the consumers that have tasted.

522
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's been We have some of the

523
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: best chefs in the world on the platform. Jose Andres,

524
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 3: Bobby Flay, Marcus Samuelson, J. J. Johnson, Mark Murphy, We've

525
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: got Nancy Silverton, We've got a great group of chefs.

526
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 3: The chefs are I think, really love wonder and the

527
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 3: customers do as well, So we get really really high

528
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: marks from customers and the overall experience.

529
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: Before we get too far into the current, go a

530
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: little bit back to the past, because it feels like

531
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: so much of what you're doing with Wonder what you

532
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: guys are doing as investors really does come from those

533
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: early entrepreneurial days because you're going up against massive companies.

534
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: Like what are the lessons that you take from competing

535
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: with the Amazon, for instance?

536
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: I think the ability to take risk and understand where

537
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: you are on the risk spectrum. So the lower the

538
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: probability of success, the more risk you need to take.

539
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: When you have a high probability success, you take less risk.

540
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: That's why a big company they're not taking legal risk

541
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: or any kind of risks like that why things are working.

542
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 3: It's good when you're a startup in your early stages

543
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: and you talk to a lawyer. They shouldn't be giving

544
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: you the same advice about whether you should do something

545
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: or not do something when you're a startup versus a

546
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: big company, But lawyers tend to give you the same advice.

547
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: It is what it is.

548
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: You as an entrepreneur need to be able to understand

549
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: that the biggest risk you take as a startup is

550
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: you're going to run out of money and die. People

551
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 3: often underestimate the risk of the status quo and they

552
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: overestimate the risk of change, and entrepreneur has to be

553
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: the opposite.

554
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: Do you remember a time when you had to take

555
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: a bigger risk than maybe you were comfortable with.

556
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 3: Well, i'll tell I mean, i'll tell you when there's

557
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 3: an easy example. Two years ago, we had four hundred

558
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: and fifty trucks on the road and we had tested

559
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: a brick and mortar and the brick and mortar was

560
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: doing really well, and felt like that was the future

561
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: of the company. Better eternal capital, more profitable, more scalable.

562
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 3: But we only had one brick and mortar. It was

563
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 3: tested for a month. We had four hundred and fifty

564
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: trucks on the road that were working really well, and

565
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: customers loved it. Investors, press, employees, everybody loved the trucks.

566
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 3: But you have to acknowledge and be completely objective and say, okay,

567
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: it's still a startup. What's the probability you continue with

568
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: the truck business? And then you got to always be

569
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 3: the objective and looking for opportunities to take risk to

570
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: increase the probability success. And when I saw that brick

571
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: and mortar I said, that's it. That's going to improve

572
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: the probability of getting a big outcome, the big outcome

573
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 3: much more scalable, got it much higher return on capital,

574
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 3: more profitable, and so just felt like that was the

575
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: right But still in that position, if you're in a

576
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: big company, do you literally tell employees, press shareholders, these

577
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: trucks that have been working, that we've been talking about

578
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 3: for three years, We're going to stop it, take revenue

579
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 3: to zero, sell the trucks, and start over with this

580
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: brick and mortar based on one month's worth of experience.

581
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: That's what I'm talking about. And now when I did it,

582
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: people said that's crazy. And now today, fast forward, we're

583
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 3: sixteen months removed from that, people are saying, I can't

584
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: imagine us not being in the brick and mortar business

585
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: and being in the truck business still. So as an entrepreneur,

586
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: the key learning there is being really objective and thinking

587
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: the trucks are working, and thinking, oh, we're great, don't

588
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: take that risk. Things are good. When things are good

589
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: in a startup, you still have an eighty percent chance

590
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 3: of dying, right, Like, that's just the way, that's just

591
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 3: the nature of startup, right And so you have to

592
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: like be you have to understand what you're dealing with

593
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: and factor that into your decision making. That is really

594
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 3: really important, and it's the objectivity coming up.

595
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: Mark discusses selling the companies that made him famous as

596
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: an entrepreneur and what he learned working inside Walmart and Amazon.

597
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: And Mark, I've heard you say, you know, putting the

598
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: car in front of the horse. Talk a minute bit

599
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: about that.

600
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 3: As an entrepreneur, you've heard the phrase don't put the

601
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: cart in front of the horse, and I think people

602
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: sort of trained to think that way, like don't get

603
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: ahead of yourself. I think, as an entrepreneur in the

604
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: early days, because the risk of it not working is

605
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: so high or the risk of it working is so low,

606
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: that there's a benefit to putting the cart in front

607
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: of the horse to sort of like flush things out

608
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 3: faster and get the answer faster than you ordinarily would. So,

609
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: for example, when I was actually at the bank, I

610
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: started this financial Risk Management certification exam the FRM with

611
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: my colleague Lev and I was twenty four years old.

612
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: There was no certification exam for financial risk managers like

613
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 3: a CPA and things, and I just thought like, hey,

614
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: let's create a certification exam. And friends would say, well,

615
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: you can't do. Who's going to take your exam? Like

616
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 3: you're a twenty four year old kid, They're not going

617
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 3: to take your exam. So I said, all right, good point.

618
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 3: So we created like the Global Association of Risk Professionals.

619
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: It was an association. We said, oh, the association will

620
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 3: give the exam. They said, yeah, but you just created that,

621
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: so how does that work? So I said, good point. Okay,

622
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 3: so this is putting the cart in front of the horse.

623
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: Rather than go through this whole like build an examination,

624
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 3: bring in professors, all the things that you would need

625
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: to do, you basically just put on the website. In

626
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: one weekend, here are all the topics, here are some

627
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 3: books to read. The exam is in May in New

628
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 3: York City, and it's five hundred and fifty bucks if

629
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: you want to sit for the exam. How's it? One weekend,

630
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: put the cart in front of the horse. Started getting checks,

631
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 3: one check, two checks, three checks. I think it was

632
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: thirty four checks that we got the first year. So

633
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 3: we said, all right, I guess we got to I

634
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 3: guess we got to create this examination.

635
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: Then you get horse.

636
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: Now then you get the professors, then you put the

637
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 3: exam together, then you administer it, and then you do it.

638
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 3: And so that's just a great example of like you

639
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: don't know huntil you do it. So how do you

640
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: take the biggest step you can take with the minimum

641
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: amount of effort and time to kind of flush out

642
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: the answer as quickly as possible. So that's the technique

643
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: that that's to start a whole company, But inside of

644
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 3: a startup, inside of a big company, there are lots

645
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: of opportunities to sort of like very quickly put the

646
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: cart in front of the horse, to learn something that

647
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: could dictate the future strategy of the of the organization.

648
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: And so that's a good good lesson there.

649
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: So with the sale of diapers dot com it goes

650
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: to Amazon. That's the story in and of itself. Some people,

651
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: having gone through that successfully, it'd be like, yeah, entrepreneurship

652
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: done it. Maybe I'll go go do something else. What

653
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: was your mindset as an entrepreneur? What did you learn?

654
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: What had you learned at that point? I guess that

655
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: sort of fueled you and about the role of an entrepreneur.

656
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 3: I sold diapers dot Com Amazon, and I wasn't I

657
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 3: made generational wealth as I had nobody in my family

658
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 3: ever made money before. But I was depressed and my

659
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: co found at the time of Vinnie Burr, we basically

660
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: both felt the same way. And after the money was

661
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 3: wired to our bank account, we sort of said, like,

662
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 3: we should be celebrating right now, and we're both like depressed,

663
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 3: and we went and we had a drink and we're

664
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: just like, man, Like, it just goes to show you

665
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't about the money. Like the mission that we

666
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: had set out was kind of like crushed with the

667
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: sale to Amazon, and we had just really big dreams

668
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: for what that could be and it was kind of over.

669
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: Even though it was a great exit. We made a

670
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: lot of money and Cheryl's made a lot of money,

671
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: it was depressing and so I felt like, you know,

672
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 3: there was just some unfit finished business in e commerce.

673
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: We had learned so much, had new great talented people,

674
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: had access to capital, and went after it with Jet again.

675
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 3: And I think one of the reasons why I think

676
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: we were able to grow so fast and have all

677
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: this happened in twenty six month period was because we

678
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: kind of felt behind. It was like diapers would have

679
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 3: been here by now, had, we just stuck with it,

680
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: and so there's a little bit of catch up. I

681
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 3: kind of regret kind of going as fast as we

682
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 3: did on Jet because I think some of the core

683
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: principles that I have around around entrepreneurship were sort of

684
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 3: broken during that run. But again, it was a successful

685
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 3: exit for shareholders, for employees, and for Walmart.

686
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 2: So Mark, I want to go back to Jet dot com.

687
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: You went from deck to exit in about twenty six months.

688
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 2: That's incredible. There were some articles around the time that

689
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 2: they may have overpaid, but as somebody said from inside

690
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 2: the company, is one of the greatest acquisitions that Walmart

691
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: made because along with Jet came Mark Lori and they

692
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: wanted to kind of turbo charge their e commerce business

693
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 2: that were doing around eight billion dollars a year, which

694
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: was pretty pretestrin for that, and you took it with

695
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: your team to about fifty billion in like four years.

696
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 2: How hard was that and how the heck did you

697
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: do that?

698
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: We had a great team at Jet that really helped.

699
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 3: Once I came into Walmart and just assessed the situation

700
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 3: was we needed to change the narrative. I think the

701
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 3: narrative around Walmart eCOM was they were losing big time

702
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: to Amazon. I think as a result, it was challenging

703
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 3: for Walmart to recruit great people into e commerce business.

704
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: I think Walmart had had great people on the store

705
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 3: side of the business, a very big, profitable business, but

706
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: on the eCOM side, Walmart wasn't known as a tech company.

707
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: I probably made a series of decisions that any one

708
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 3: decision on its own, if you just isolated and studied,

709
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 3: it would have been a bad decision. But the sum

710
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: total of a bunch of bad decisions actually turned out

711
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: to be a really good decision. One bad decision would be,

712
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 3: you know, we had the cost to acquire a customer

713
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: and the lifetime value, and typically you want to have

714
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: the lifetime value of a customer some multiple of what

715
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: it costs to acquire, so that you were pay to

716
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: acquire and then you make a return.

717
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: And it makes sense.

718
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 3: Well, they didn't have a very high lifetime value of

719
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 3: a customer, and so the cost to acquire customer in

720
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: the LTV was sort of upside down. You wouldn't typically

721
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: recommend spending marketing into an upside down scenario, but my

722
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 3: view was we need to get top line moving, and

723
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: so the first year we grew. I think again spending

724
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: marketing I would say inefficiently, not something that on an

725
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 3: isolated decision would recommend, but getting that business growing, and

726
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 3: people were like, wow, what's going on over Walmart e commerce?

727
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: And there are some tech folks, so investing the styles

728
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 3: are growing. So a series of decisions like that interesting

729
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 3: that helped change the narrative because at the end of

730
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: the day, I knew we had to have a clear

731
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: vision as VCP. We had the capital from Walmart, what

732
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 3: we didn't have was the people, and so how do

733
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 3: we change the narrative to bring in the very best

734
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: people in the world. And I think we were able

735
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 3: to bring in some amazing people that really helped transform

736
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: the business. So I was sort of helped be the

737
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: catalyst to it, but it was the great people we

738
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: hired that ultimately executed and grew that business.

739
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: And what is it like for someone who thinks so

740
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 1: much about entrepreneurism and startups to be in I mean

741
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: talk about the belly of the beast. I mean, you're

742
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: in literally one of the largest companies in the world.

743
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: How do you create a playbook that is both true

744
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: to you and successful inside this massive organization?

745
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I was fortunate that Doug McMillan and

746
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: the board Walmart, so so here are the keys, we

747
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: need help on e comm and sort of they definitely

748
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: let me run the first couple of years to kind

749
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: of get a lot of these things in motion. I

750
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: think maybe they wish that things happened faster than they did,

751
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 3: but it was it was tough to turn over that

752
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 3: that team and culture and get that moving. But I

753
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: think in order to be successful there you have to

754
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: be a sort of missionary. And just like when we

755
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: sold the company, I just felt like I was in

756
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: service to Doug and the board and I was going

757
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 3: to do whatever I could to do what's in the

758
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: best interest to Walmart. It wasn't about me, It wasn't

759
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 3: about the team, wasn't about Jet. One of the first

760
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: decisions I made was to merge Jet and Walmart into

761
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: one e commerce site. It didn't make sense to have

762
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: too that. Of course, didn't want to see my baby

763
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: get merged in, but that was the right decision. So

764
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 3: I think if you go into a big company like

765
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: that and you approach it with this idea that like,

766
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 3: whatever's in the best interest of the company, they acquired us,

767
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 3: and you put all your thought and effort into that,

768
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: then good things will happen.

769
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: And Mark just one simple question. I mean for me,

770
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 2: it's always intriguing. And when you build a company from

771
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: deck to exit in twenty six months, how does Walmart

772
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: get ahold of Mark? I mean you to get an

773
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: investment banker and says, hey, Walmart's interested or Amazon's interested?

774
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 2: How does that work?

775
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: Both Amazon sale and the Walmart sale? No banker? Wow.

776
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 3: So it was just direct relationship to start off, as like, hey,

777
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 3: they meet each other, and then you know, I think

778
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 3: when I met Doug, I really liked him and he

779
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: wanted to get e commerce moving and go after Amazon,

780
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: and I did too, and so we just sort of

781
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: bonded over that. And when we were.

782
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: Doing you had a cop I mean you had a

783
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: common foe in Amazon.

784
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: Fair. That's fair. That's fair.

785
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: Because your experience with Amazon, I mean they bought you

786
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: and shut it down.

787
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 3: I didn't have the best experience selling diapers dot Com

788
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: to Amazon. A much better experience selling Jet to Walmart,

789
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: That's for sure. Learned a lot of lessons in both cases.

790
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: What was the main lesson you took from Amazon? From

791
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: the Amazon acquisition to the Walmart acquisition.

792
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. This is more nuanced. But it's really

793
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: important to me, is you know, I didn't like the

794
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: Amazon culture, like it wasn't a good fit for me.

795
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 3: One of the things I came to appreciate about Amazon

796
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: and about culture in general, is the most important thing

797
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: is consistency hiring people that excel in that culture, like

798
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: that's the most and Amazon was really good at that.

799
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 3: So they knew exactly, this is our culture. These are

800
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 3: the kind of people that are successful, and they weed

801
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 3: out people that aren't and they find the people that are.

802
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 3: And so even though I disagreed with the culture, it

803
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 3: actually was a good culture. One of the big things

804
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: was and they are not afraid to say this, and

805
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 3: that's what I respect it. They don't like social cohesion.

806
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: They think you should be very direct and tell somebody

807
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 3: if you don't like that, just tell them right to

808
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: their face. I don't like that. That's bad, And I'm

809
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 3: a little bit more like social cohesion empathy. I would

810
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 3: never tell somebody straight like that. I would do it

811
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 3: in a much nicer way. They say, no, that takes

812
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: too much time. It causes groupthink to waste the time,

813
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: get to the answer, get to the point. Some people

814
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 3: love that. Some people operate to say just tell me,

815
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: I don't care, don't beat around the bush, don't sugarcoat it.

816
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 3: I like to sugarcoat things because I think people human,

817
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: they have emotions, and again I'm trying to get the

818
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 3: very best out of people. In my view is if

819
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 3: people feel respected, they feel you're not being kind of

820
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 3: sent not treating and bad that they're going to develop

821
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: a loyalty and there's a trust that develops, and from

822
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: that trust and loyalty comes that fire to want to

823
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 3: like be a missionary and want to like help push

824
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: the company forward. And that's what I'm looking for. Mark,

825
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 3: you and I talk.

826
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 2: About trust, and I've learned this from you. Talk a

827
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: little bit about your philosophy about trust and how you

828
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: usually get more trust from people that work with you

829
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 2: or for you by trusting more.

830
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 3: It's just starting from a place of trust until they

831
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 3: do something to lose that trust. Yeah. But the three

832
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 3: core values at Wonder and a Jet trust, transparency, and fairness.

833
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 3: And I truly believe that if people feel trusted and

834
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: you're transparent with information not the sort of your bad

835
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: it's here's all the information. Here are the financials, here's

836
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 3: the state of the company. Here's where we are, here's

837
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 3: our compensation system, here's what everybody makes in the company.

838
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 3: Be super transparent and they have that, and you're fair

839
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 3: and equitable, and you create a safe working environment. If

840
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 3: you have that set of values, then I think people

841
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: find it very empowering and that's how you get the

842
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 3: best out of people, in my view, and soays always

843
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 3: look to create that sort of empowering culture.

844
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: So Marklorie, what advice would you give a ten year old,

845
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 2: a twenty year old, a teenager that wants to be

846
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: the next Mark Glory? What advice would you give them?

847
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: I get this question a lot, and people say, if

848
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 3: you had to do it over again, what would you do?

849
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: I get really lucky. But I think I've noticed them

850
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 3: two daughters twenty four and twenty one years old, and

851
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 3: so they're asking me for advice a lot. And I

852
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: think people at that age, in their teens or twenties,

853
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: they feel like they need to have it all figured out.

854
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: What do I need to do? It's very mechanical. Do

855
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 3: I need to get this degree to then do that,

856
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: to then do this, and do I do this and

857
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 3: would what I would say to everyone at that age

858
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: is it's important that you just focus on learning as

859
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 3: much as you can. Finding mentors or people that have

860
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 3: been successful that you respect in terms of their values.

861
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 3: You'll learn a lot about leadership, a lot about people,

862
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: lessons that you don't even realize you're learning just to

863
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: osmosis being around the person that will pay huge dividends

864
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 3: in the future. So I think I think learning is

865
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 3: really important. I think also following your passion. So like

866
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: when my daughters asked me, like, I don't know what

867
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: to do? Should I do this? Should I? It's like,

868
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: what do you want to do? What's going to make

869
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: you happy? Like this month, next month, and like, yeah,

870
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 3: but I want to do that, this would make me happy,

871
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: But then I won't be able to get here or

872
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 3: get there, and I just sort of disagree with that philosophy.

873
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 3: I think follow your passion if you've got to drive

874
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: something burning inside you that you want to go do

875
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 3: or learn about, like the time to do it is

876
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 3: when you're young, and that'll take you places that you

877
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 3: have no idea and can plan out. But I do

878
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 3: know if you follow your passion, you surround yourself with

879
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 3: great people, you learn, and you give more than you take,

880
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 3: and give without any regard for what you might get

881
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 3: in the future. And if you come from that place

882
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: of giving, surrounding yourself with great people, learn, follow your passion,

883
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: I think magical things will happen.

884
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: Great Mark, Thank you so much, Thank you, Mark, Thank you.

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00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 4: The Deal is a production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.

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00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 4: The Deals hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. Our

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00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 4: producers are Victor Eveyaz and Lizzie Phillip. Our story editor

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00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 4: is Siddartha Mohonta. Our assistant producers are Stacey Wong and

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00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 4: Calee Brooks. Blake Maples is our sound engineer. Rubob Shakir

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00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 4: is our creative director. Our direction is from Jacquelin Kessler.

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00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 4: Original music by Blake Maples, casting by Dave Warren. Our

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00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 4: managing editor is David Ravella. Our executive producers are Sage Bauman,

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00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 4: Jason Kelly, Adam Mcamiski, Brenda Newnham, Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Hoenig,

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00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 4: Trey Shallowhorn, Kyle Kramer, and Andrew Barden. Additional support from

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00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 4: Rachel Scarmusino. Elena So Los Angeles and Anna Masaakis. Joshua

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00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 4: Devo is our director of photography. Camera operation by Jesse Rindner,

897
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: Billy Boyerman and Natasha Ablard. Our gaffer is Rob Silcox,

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00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 4: and our grip is Pronoy Jacob. Our production assistant is

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Speaker 4: Diana Colung. Katia Vanoy is our video editor. You can

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00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 4: also watch the Deal on Bloomberg Originals YouTube and Bloomberg Television.

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00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 4: Subscribe to the Deal wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks

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00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 4: so much for listening.