WEBVTT - Golf Course Renovation on a Budget with Steven Biehl 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.520 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.920 When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:05.880 And when I find my. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.720 Ball in a brid egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.840 egg Frida, egg Frida, egg Frida egg bride egg. 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.080 Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the hump course. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:41.280 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.040 I am your host, Andy Johnson, and this is another 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.360 edition of our Superintendent series. This one, I think is 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:52.920 a pretty special one. Steven Beale the superintendent at Wolf 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.920 River Golf Course in Northern Michigan. It's in bear Lake, Michigan. Uh, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.000 this is an incredible story. I've known Stephen for a 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.480 number of years. We actually played golf before he made 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.280 the move from Chicago up to Northern Michigan. He's a 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:13.720 great guy, and I think he undertook and executed maybe 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:17.040 the most remarkable project of the last couple of years. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:22.080 He did more with less than any any superintendent that 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.920 I know of. And this is an incredible story. It 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.400 is a superintendent that has gone above and beyond and 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:35.440 really transformative property and is delivering an exceptional product at 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.440 a very you know, budget, friendly and low cost. I 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.720 think you know, we give a lot of praise to 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.440 the great golf courses in the world, the elite courses, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:51.440 the places that have millions of dollars for maintenance budgets, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:59.280 But to me, the most remarkable, the most inspiring places 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.880 are the places that do a lot for a little 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:09.000 bit of dollars. And Wolf River is that Steven has 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:13.600 did an amazing renovation with a small staff and a 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:18.280 very small budget, and it is an exceptional place to 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.640 play golf. And it's very cheap and very very friendly 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.920 to all types of golfers. So he's doing an incredible 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.480 job and excited for everybody to hear this episode of 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.359 the Superintendent series. The Superintendent Series is brought to you 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.880 by Toro, the only brand with a full line of 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.120 equipment and irrigation products to keep your golf course in 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.040 top condition. Toro is serious about R and D and 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.000 they are always out there listening to superintendents so they 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.280 can develop products that help you solve your biggest challenges. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.399 And when it comes to local service and support, their 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.040 distributor network is second to none. See how Toro is 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:04.000 always solved and always evolving at Toro dot com. All right, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:14.080 let's get to Stephen Beale. Steven, I gotta ask, do 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.640 you would you include golf architect now on your resume. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.960 I suppose a few people would probably say I should. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.840 I haven't had to update the resume, so I haven't 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.600 felt the need to do that. But I suppose with 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.880 a scope of work that was done, I could make 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:35.560 that argument. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:38.120 I you know, I don't think a lot of people 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.280 have the context of what you've done. What you did, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:48.680 but you are the superintendent at at Wolf River Golf Park, 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:53.240 which is in northern Michigan. It was formerly bear Lake 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:58.720 Highland's golf course, and you guys underwent what I think 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.840 a lot of people dream of is the idea of 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.080 taking a golf course that a lot of people play. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:07.880 That's you know, it is what the golf course is 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:14.080 and reimagining it. You you conducted a renovation that looked 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.240 at the t's the green, redid the t's the greens, 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.040 the grass. You know, you installed the new grass and 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.080 uh and redid all the bunkers. And you know, I 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:29.040 think where most people kind of lose that dream of 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.240 doing that is when you start to look at the cost. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.840 I think what you've done is that you've kind of 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:38.400 done it at a at a remarkable cost. What was 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.560 the the budget that you guys completed this project eighteen 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.560 hole real renovation and how did you guys do it 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:48.279 at such a cheap price. 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:54.720 Well, if you want to highlight just the project costs, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:00.800 including some cathol equipment, we bought a seater. It was 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.640 probably around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars mark. The 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.440 reason we were able to do that is because it 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.360 was on a great piece of property. To begin with. 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.719 We had fantastic soils. They drained well and that allowed 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.279 us to just go in and put a bunker where 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.360 we wanted. That allowed us to recontour the greens how 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:28.600 we needed, and we could achieve an end result that 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:33.560 was very playable because the soils were fantastic. It was 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.640 a great site, a lot of great natural drainage that 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.760 allowed for you know, just a little one off pieces 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.960 of work. We didn't have to move a lot of 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.880 soil to put in a bunker. We could just nestle 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:52.440 a bunker into a hill. We could just recontour greens 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.080 and match up with what existed outside the green surface. 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:07.800 And so the costs were time more than money. It 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.359 It just required a little bit of time to establish grass, 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.320 move the soil, et cetera. 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.960 One hundred and fifty dollars. That is a number that 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.960 I think people will say, there's no possible way you 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.080 did this, so l way you did this for one 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:25.800 hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:32.120 And that's that's fine. You know that there are when 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:37.320 people lump in project costs, they also lump in sometimes 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.120 the big clubs that will lump in operating loss from 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:44.760 the clubhouse, they'll lump in all in costs. And if 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.479 if we're gonna putting the costs all the way down 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:53.240 to property taxes, yeah that's that's a little bit more. 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.440 But there's this cost of ownership of owning a golf 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:02.880 course that every facility has. And we were closed for 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:08.800 a year to do it. So again that's time. That's 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:16.480 not necessarily money that somebody needed to complete it. So 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.800 I say a lot that you can do anything you 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.080 want to a golf course. You just need time or money, 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:22.920 and if you're short on one, you need more of 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:28.640 the other. You can accomplish a lot through you know, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.800 a little bit of money, as long as you got 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.000 the timeline to complete it. 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.240 How do you I guess you know, so you're up 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:42.040 in northern Michigan. How do you look at golf courses before? 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.880 I'm not sure if you thought you could do the 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.240 whole project for one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, But 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.360 how do you do you look at golf courses differently 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:56.680 before and after this project? Just general golf courses. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.480 I've always felt like I looked at golf courses differently 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.880 every place I go to. I'm always looking at things 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.160 that I would do different Being able to actually execute 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.680 the changes on it on a property that was fantastic 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:19.160 to begin with. You know, you learn a lot and 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.640 when you're doing it, but it also convinced me the 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.160 ad it can be done. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.119 So you you went about this project, you guys did 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.240 the whole all the work in totality and house. You 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.360 would be the golf architect. You were leaving the chart 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.120 a charge. How did it come to be that you 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.720 were the golf architect on this project? 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.520 When we were going through the planning process, we had 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.120 decided that okay, we were we were going to do 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.440 a project. What was the scope of the project is 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.959 what we were looking at. We we talked about hiring 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:01.080 an architect, perhaps a couple of people to come in 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.880 and help, and you know, whigh in the way and 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:10.360 the benefits of that, weigh in different opportunities beside that, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.920 and one of the one of the decision makers just 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:16.640 looked at me and said, can you build a bunker? 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.040 I said, yeah, I built a bunker before he just goes, okay, 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:26.080 you do it. And that was that. That's how it 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.600 That's how it came to be. I think that speaks 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.240 a lot of the trust they had in me that 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.319 or or maybe maybe maybe the ignorance of what I 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.160 was wanting to do. But I felt like I was 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.400 pretty detailed and what the possibilities were on the property 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.480 and what the possibilities were for a project, and uh, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:59.080 based on what they wanted out of it. You know, 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.719 they wanted it to remain a community golf course. They 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.840 didn't want it to be They knew it wasn't going 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.680 to be any type of destination resort. They knew that 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.280 they wanted to They wanted to remain part of the community, 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:18.640 They wanted it to be available to locals. So, you know, 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:23.000 some of those aspects of what an architect provides you 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.319 know we weren't going to get our return. An architect 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.959 can certainly provide a lot of expertise in that they 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.079 can you know, provide some speed as far as how 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.160 quickly those changes get done. There's some marketing that you 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.640 can put behind that. And when you add all that up, 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.640 and the decision was made that we wanted we just 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.120 wanted to keep it a place that that locals can play, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.960 and we wanted to keep it affordable. You know, that 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.120 kind of kind of made the decision for us. I 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.480 knew that we could make it a lot better. I 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:59.440 knew that we could make it interesting, and you know, 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:04.480 I think we've done that. And part of the you know, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.839 part of my plan for it is, okay, don't overdo it. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.440 You know, this is just going to be me shaping 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.199 some bunkers and greens. We're not going to go crazy 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.679 here trying to do trying to do some wholesale changes 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.560 when I don't have the expertise to fit all that together, 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.760 not doing a you know, not being an actual golf 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.920 course architect that has done this before. I think the 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.240 way to go is keep it simple. Just do one 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.040 bunker at a time, just do one green at a 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:38.360 time and and don't get out over my skis even 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:39.360 though it probably already was. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:44.160 Again, I want to go back to when when they 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:51.920 said you do it, yes, you do it. How did 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.240 you feel like I? I you were? So to give 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.640 people context, you got a double degree at Purdue. You 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.280 you an agronomy like your turf degree, but you also 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.240 got a landscape architecture degree. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.640 I started in both. So I had I had. I 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.760 started as a double major landscape architecture in turf grass 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.000 science to be a golf course architect. M h. That 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.880 was that was my intent when I graduated high school. 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.080 I wanted to be a golf course architect. And uh 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.600 so that was that was the plan. And after a 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:31.720 couple of years, you have the tech bubble burst, and 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:37.480 any type of golf construction just seized. I just kind 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.000 of made the decision that I was going to go 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.440 just into turf and I yeah, then just focused on turf. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.319 And and so I do have a four year agronomy 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:52.240 degree in turf breast science for Purdue. And sorry about that. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:13:02.280 Okay, And and so yeah, I've always looked at golf 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.040 courses with an architecture I I've always you know, studied 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.640 golf course architecture on my own. 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.080 And so when they say okay, you do it, I'm like, oh, okay, 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.480 And as a couple of days later, I'm like, well, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.080 wait a second, I guess this is going to happen. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.920 And so I just started taking tons of notes. And 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.920 I'd been on the property for three years up to 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.959 that point, so I had a good knowledge of the 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:40.079 property and it has spent three years driving around and 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.680 thinking of ideas. So now it was just a point 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:47.560 of trying to figure out how to which ones to 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.800 implement and which ones we're going to be best to implement. 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.360 Let's talk a little bit about the creative process we talked. 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.920 You know, you talked about how you kind of approached 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:03.200 it as one bunker, one green at a time. What 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.360 when you look at like where did you start and 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.160 you know, you get on your start like you've never 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:16.120 built a green before. When you look back, like what 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.200 was it like building eighteen new greens and shaping them? 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.480 And what did you learn along the way? What were 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.960 the early greens? And do you look at them ever 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:27.960 and be like I wish I would have done this, 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.680 or do you look back and think like you know 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:36.200 this like walk us through, just like shaping eighteen greens 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:40.160 when you've never done it before, and how it how 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.400 it went, and the thoughts that were in your head 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:43.240 while you're doing them. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.800 I had quite a few notes laid out that when 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.480 I went to each green, I had already mapped out 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.520 an idea of what I was going to try to 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.160 do with that specific green. We had a handful of 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.760 greens that had surface drainage issues, so that's the number 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:02.600 one priority. How are we going to shape it to 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:09.240 improve the surface drainage. I had ideas mapped out of 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.000 how the surface drainage was going to come off the green. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.240 So I had already ideas where I was going to 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.040 try to put shapes to get the surface drainage off 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:24.680 the green. And so it each time I went to 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.760 a green and started and through the we stripped off 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.320 the old layer. We stripped off a thin layer of 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.960 the old greens, and then we tilled them up, so 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.200 when I got there, it was just a tiled up 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:43.920 patch of dirt, and so I already in my head 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.680 I had an idea of what I wanted to do 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.200 with the green. So then it's just a matter of 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.800 going out and starting to move the dirt around. I 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.880 started with a tractor with a loader and moved the 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.000 just move the dirt around with a loader, and then 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.800 went and started to do finished grading with sand pro 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.760 and uh, and then just drug it smooth and looked 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.240 at it for a day and said, okay, let's let's 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:13.200 go seet it. Yeah. The the first few greens I 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.160 did were fine. It was the first green was one 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.320 of the first ones I did, and I could never 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.240 I could never get what was in my head into 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.840 the dirt. And so I ended up just saying I've 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:30.200 got to get something. I got to get something going 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:31.920 so I can get some seed on this. I can't 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.760 just spend two weeks on this green. So you know, 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.360 I just at that point it's like, Okay, that's good enough. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.720 I'll tie it in and float it out and seed it. 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.960 There's certainly a couple of greens I wish I could 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.080 have another crack at, because once you once you do 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.440 several of them, you you'll learn a lot real fast. 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.520 And uh, and so there's a there's a couple that 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:02.160 that I wish I could have a redo of. But oh, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.760 in all, you know, I'm I'm pretty happy with with 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:10.080 how they turned out, and yeah, so it's yeah, before 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.159 I started, I had it, I had an idea, I 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.639 had notes, and I would I would go around the 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.760 green and I would place flags at the low point, 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.159 place flags at the high point on the edges, and 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.360 then just try to match up the dirt with that. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:28.320 What I'm I'm shocked that the first one was your 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.000 first one, the first green. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.000 No, it wasn't. It wasn't. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.280 No, it was the first one. 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.359 So the ninth green was the first one I did. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.240 Okay, okay, yeah, and then what was the what was 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:45.240 what I mean? Where would you say you just like 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.679 started you feel like? What green number were you? Like? 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.679 I really feel great about this? And what green are 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:53.520 you most proud of? 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.520 I think the eleventh green turned out pretty well for 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.520 for what it was before and what I was trying 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.480 to do with it. It's benched into a side of 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:09.680 a hill and just really difficult to get the contours right. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.840 There was a third of the green that was on 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.200 a flat area and the rest of it just sloped 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.520 off so hard to the left that you couldn't put 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.800 a pin in it. And so the goal there was 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.840 to you know, put a shelf in it so that 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.480 I could get a level spot on the other side 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.199 to add some whole locations there, but also try to 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.159 match up this this shelf in the middle of the 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.199 green to a valley that went off the front of 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.399 the green. So there was a little low spot in 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:47.520 the fairway, and so it was it was an effort 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.720 to try to match up this little low spot that's 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.440 in the fairway make it look like this. This was 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.359 a valley that ran into the green, and that was 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.640 going to be the little valley that separated the two shells. 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.320 And yeah, I think it worked out. I had there's 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.320 a few pen placements on the left side that work, 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:18.040 and it drains well, and all the contours meshined pretty well. 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:21.399 So I think the Eleventh Green was pretty ambitious for 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.840 what I wanted to do, but I think it turned 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:26.200 out pretty pretty well. 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.320 It's a memorable green. I mean, it's amazing. It kind 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.560 of sits on the side of ridge. It's got that 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.200 valley in the middle of it. It kind of kicks 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:37.920 in from the right, everything left that if you miss left, 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:39.920 is going to tumble down a hill. I was way 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.800 down there, like twenty yards down, twenty yards to the 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:46.520 left and twenty feet below the green. It is a 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.760 really huge scale green and I think it did turn 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:54.240 out well. What was the toughest part of the project 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.080 that you didn't really expect going into it? 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.200 Oh, just timelines. 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:00.679 You know. 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.800 I was completely ignorant of how long it was going 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:10.040 to take to do some stuff. But you know, find 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.720 fescue comes up really fast and then it just sits 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.680 there and it doesn't doesn't look like it's doing anything 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.280 for a long time. So I'm sitting there, you know, 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.000 just waiting for grass to grow in, essentially, and I 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:27.960 you know, I wasn't you know, familiar enough with seating 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:31.520 on that type of scale too have the patience to 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.560 just wait it out. So that was a that was 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:40.879 a big one. And the biggest unexpected thing was probably 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:45.000 our our pond project. We there was a pond that 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:49.000 was bulkheaded with railroad ties all the way around it, 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:54.600 and that was in the scope of the project. We 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:59.560 were going to remove the railroad ties, rebuild the pond edge, 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:05.600 and we had the permitting for that, and it got 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:11.440 to a point in the in the year where the 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:15.760 the plan to have a contractor come do that never 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.119 came to fruition, and so I'm sitting here with a 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.680 permit that's going to be expiring in a couple of 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:28.320 months and a pond project that's not done. And I 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:30.719 pretty much just said, okay, if this, if we're going 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:32.719 to do this project, then it's got to be now 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:36.560 or it's never going to get done. So we pulled 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:40.320 the trigger to remove all these railroad ties four hundred 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.720 railroad ties or something the bulkheaded this pond, and then 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:51.840 rebuild the pond edge. And yeah, so me in the 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.879 in the staff of five that we're doing it. I 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.040 had another person on staff, but they were mowing the 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:03.000 whole time. Just started doing this project. 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.639 How do you even go about reworking rebuilding a pond? 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.920 Like what did you know what you were doing? Did 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.600 you have to do? You google how to rebuild a pond? Like, 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:16.080 how do you how do you do that? 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.480 Well, there wasn't. It was It was just a matter 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.199 of rebuilding the pond edge and you know, reshaping the 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.399 pond edge with with some soil and then re establishing it. 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:36.600 So it wasn't drastic work, but it was a lot 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:42.160 of work and it took a lot of time out 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:46.160 of you know, some other project we could have been doing. 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.320 On the golf course. But I'm so glad we did it. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:53.280 It's the result is is so much better. It's you know, 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:58.119 there's two holes. Well each hole on either side of 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.360 the pond plays a lot differ for now that that 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:06.600 project is done. So yeah, the timeline on getting that 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:10.360 grass established is extended. I mean, I think I don't 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:12.120 know if you made it down there by that pod, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.120 but you can still see the grass is still pretty thin, 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.239 but it certainly get certainly quite a bit better than 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.960 it was last year. So little by little it keeps 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:21.880 getting a little bit better. 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.080 So what was the most fun part of the project 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:25.480 for you? 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:32.119 Shaping bunkers? Yeah, I learned. You know, there's a reason 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:37.879 golf course architects get into this business because, yeah, shaping 0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:43.280 bunkers is a ton of thought and it's fun to 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.840 get in there and just start digging and trying to 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.000 you know, take what's in your head and put it 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:56.879 on the ground. So definitely, shaping bunkers was my favorite 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:57.440 part of it. 0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:59.960 What were you trying to do with the bunkers? Like 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.400 when you're when you're in there shaping, what what are 0:24:03.400 --> 0:24:07.200 you thinking about? You know, Like while you're shaping, say 0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.879 you know, twenty five thirty bunkers. How what are the 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:12.720 thoughts that are going through your head about them? 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:18.280 Number one was getting them constructed in a way that 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:22.280 the surrounding water does not drain into the bunker, and 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:28.200 that was that was number one priority. Over the aesthetic 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:33.680 part of the goals of the project were to create 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:36.159 a golf course that was efficient to maintain over the 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.040 long term. And anytime you get to go out and 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:46.320 fix washouts is just a terrible drain on labor and 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.879 it just it just wears the age of a bunker 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.520 down really fast. If it's full of water all the time, 0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:53.359 and if you can shape it in a way the 0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:56.120 water doesn't run in there most of the time, you're 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.119 not going to get water standing in a water standing 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:00.879 in a bunker is the result of water coming in 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:05.200 from outside the bunker. So that was the number one goal, 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.480 is to shape it so that water ran away from 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:15.159 the bunker, it ran around the bunker, and you know, 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.000 you can you can get some interesting shapes when that's 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:21.680 a goal also, and that's also what I wanted to do, 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:27.240 was to make bunkers that people didn't typically see. Our 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:31.040 clientele is, you know, the local community golfer and there's 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:35.040 some bunker shapes out there that that you know, they 0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:39.560 just don't see at any other places. And that was 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:41.800 that was a goal of the project also was to 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:47.719 create interesting shapes and give the bunker aesthetic, you know, 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.240 make that a unique characteristic of golf course. 0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:53.959 Yeah, I mean they definitely they have a feel. It's 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.080 it doesn't feel like your run of the mill, local 0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:01.480 municipal golf course and makes you feel like you're playing 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:06.640 at kind of like a new design that was designed 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.400 by somebody you know. Of note with the the way 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.600 they kind of sit into the land and are placed 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:19.320 in place in strategic places when you kind of zoom out, 0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:22.560 is there a hole that you feel like was really 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:26.119 transformed the most from something you thought was you know, 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:28.719 it was fine, but I you know, maybe you're you 0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.639 even didn't see what it could be based off of 0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:33.560 the work that you guys did. 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:36.920 Yeah, there's a there's a couple holes that come to mind. 0:26:36.960 --> 0:26:43.800 I think sixteen is a lot different and a lot better. 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:48.879 And all we did was remove a bunch of trees 0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:53.760 and redo the one bunker that was on the hole 0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.959 to begin with. It sits on some good land and 0:26:58.040 --> 0:27:01.840 there was just a huge number. It just choked out 0:27:01.960 --> 0:27:06.679 the playing lines. It played along a line of trees 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:10.240 on the left side of the hole, and we removed 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:14.240 thirty feet of that tree line, so the tree line 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:16.560 got pushed back thirty feet and that opened up a 0:27:16.600 --> 0:27:19.520 lot of views and also opened up some playing lines 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:23.600 into the green, you know, if somebody wanted to go 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:28.600 for it in two. So I think that hole is 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.600 plays a lot different now and it opens up a 0:27:32.640 --> 0:27:34.600 lot of it just it's just more open and opens 0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:38.720 up more views. And I think I think that hole 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:43.040 was transformed quite a bit, and I think the third 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.080 hole is a lot different. The third hole used to 0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.840 be just straight out. There was there was no bunker 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:55.080 in it. The green was just kind of a raised 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:59.800 up perch that was flat. And I remember that that 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:05.200 image of the Eighth Green that Augusta National that goes 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:07.920 around it was kind of like that. It is kind 0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:13.160 of this perched up level table that didn't have any 0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:18.240 contour in it, and water would run off the front 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.880 and the front was always wet as a result of that. 0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:25.919 So I was just kind of straight out all with 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:28.479 no interest that you know, it does run between two ponds, 0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:30.960 so that constrains a lot of what you're able to 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:35.439 do there because it's not very wide on either side 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:38.400 before you go into the water. But yeah, it added 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:41.200 a small bunker in the fair way to to add 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.880 some interest and decision making off the tee and just 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:47.480 added a bunch of contour to the green, get some 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:49.960 water to run off in a different spot, and add 0:28:49.960 --> 0:28:54.720 some pudding interest that that play. It plays a lot 0:28:55.000 --> 0:28:58.920 different and yeah, you can get a lot of different 0:28:58.960 --> 0:29:03.000 shots depending on how you played each day. 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:07.280 You spoke about the clientele being like your local northern 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:11.280 Michigan golf course where you get a lot of people 0:29:11.320 --> 0:29:14.360 from playing around town, maybe a little a little bit 0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:18.160 of tourist traffic from people that are visiting the lakes around. 0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:22.320 How have the regular clientele received the work? How was 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:25.600 it when it initially opened, because it's a drastically different 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.040 golf course, and how is it today, you know, a 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:28.720 year plus in. 0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:33.840 I think there was some shock when they returned after 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:38.719 we were open. I don't think they you know, they 0:29:38.720 --> 0:29:40.959 didn't have a good idea of what we were going 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:42.960 to do. We essentially told them, oh, we're going to 0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:46.320 be closed, and we're gonna we're going to regrass and 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:50.480 you know, redo the bunkers and greens, and it's kind 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:55.560 of the communication we left it with. And so they 0:29:55.560 --> 0:30:00.760 didn't know what to expect. And I don't think you 0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:05.480 know that clientele doesn't you know, they don't really they're 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.520 not exposed to that, you know, the private club industry. Oh, 0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:14.400 they're closing to do a renovation at this point, it's okay, Yeah, 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:16.240 we'll check it out when it's done. It's it's not 0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:22.440 new to the private club industry, but doing this type 0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:27.040 of work on a golf course that is targeted to 0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:30.520 the to the local community is is fairly unusual. So 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:34.800 I don't think they knew what to expect, and I 0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:36.920 think they were in shock when they came back. There 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:43.600 was some grumbling there, some some people, uh, you know, 0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:47.920 didn't like what we were doing. They didn't like what 0:30:48.000 --> 0:30:51.560 they saw out there. But there was a lot of 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:56.000 positive comments though too. And as time has gone on, 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:03.160 the positive comments of have continued, and some of those 0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.520 some of those people that that grumbled about it early 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:08.920 last year, this year, they're like, wow, you know, they 0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:11.720 they kind of as they've gotten used to it, as 0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:15.960 they've played it a lot, they I think they understand 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:20.160 what what our goal was. And and some of those 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.640 people have come up and given me positive comments now 0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.680 say they really enjoy the golf course. So I think 0:31:25.720 --> 0:31:27.880 it was I think it was shocked for a lot 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:32.920 of the locals. But yeah, by and large, it's it's 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:38.400 been very positive since then. And yeah, just a lot 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:39.400 of good comments from it. 0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:42.640 I think I was, you know, I was still shocked 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:45.760 at the dollar amount, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.760 Was that the original plan to be in that kind 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:52.120 of range. I assume that you kind of sold it 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:54.800 in that you could do this for an affordable price, 0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:58.040 like not that much money. Was it always the plan 0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:02.080 to do it that cheap? And what, you know, how 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:06.480 do you think courses? What do you think local courses 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:09.600 in similar positions to to your course? Maybe they don't 0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:13.320 have the natural advantages that you have of sandy soil 0:32:13.440 --> 0:32:17.560 and you know, uh, you know, good kind of starting place, 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.680 like great natural elements that you can you can work in. 0:32:20.800 --> 0:32:25.000 But how should how should local other local courses look 0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:29.320 at doing projects on a less expensive end? 0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:35.040 So it was it was not originally planned to to 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.320 be as cheap as it ended up being, you know, 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:43.240 we had we had outlined, you know, a variety of 0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:48.400 other other plans for it that just didn't materialize. And 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:52.760 you know, we came to you know the middle of 0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:57.280 the season, and when those didn't materialize, it's like, okay, 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.080 I guess we've got to finish this project. Is what 0:33:01.160 --> 0:33:01.560 we got? 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.840 I mean a half friend of golf course, right. 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:09.960 Yeah, what can you do but just keep going and 0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:17.800 keep growing the grass. So, and we had purchased the 0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:25.800 seed and fertilizer before the inflation really struck the golf industry. 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:32.960 Seed costs. Find fescue seed tripled in price in the 0:33:33.080 --> 0:33:36.680 nine months after we bought our seed to do the project. 0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:41.160 So yeah, so you know, if you're going out to 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:43.600 buy that same quantity of seed now, you'd pay three 0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:46.640 times as much as what we did. So we bought 0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:50.600 some of our starting materials at a perfect time. We 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:54.360 had no irrigation costs because all the irrigation had stayed 0:33:54.360 --> 0:33:57.840 in the same spot, so we didn't have any irrigation changes. 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:02.760 That is a massive saving. We just bought a local 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:08.080 sand so you know, twenty tons of sand is going 0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:12.920 to cost a six hundred box, and is there a 0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:17.000 few stones in it? Yep, there is. But our marketing 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:19.200 is that the bunkers are hazards and we want to 0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:25.040 maintain as hazards and that's how that's how we do it. 0:34:25.120 --> 0:34:27.880 The sand is actually pretty white, so it offsets the 0:34:27.920 --> 0:34:33.080 green color pretty well. Uh in that. But so you know, 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:36.000 we had set out to do it efficiently. We knew 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:38.799 that we were going to do it in house with 0:34:38.840 --> 0:34:44.279 our own labor, with some rental equipment. Yeah, as the 0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:49.160 project went on, yeah, things things just never materialized as 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:54.960 they as they were originally laid out. And yeah, we 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.200 did the project all in house with six people. And 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:02.719 again it's possible if you have the time to do that. 0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:08.680 As far as you know, other golf courses trying to 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:11.560 mimic it, it's what we did wasn't hard. We didn't 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:17.480 do anything that was impossible to do. I shaped all 0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:20.720 the greens and bunkers with a tractor with a loader 0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:23.680 and a sand pro with a blade on the front 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.879 of it. Almost every golf course has got those two 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:32.080 pieces of equipment, so that's possible. And again, it was 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.440 sandy soil easy to work in. I didn't need to 0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:37.360 put drains in any of the bunkers, so obviously that 0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:42.040 was a big help. We did all our treework ourselves, 0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:47.439 cut the trees down ourselves, rented a stump grinder, ground 0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:51.520 the stumps out ourselves. So you know, that type of 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:56.480 stuff any golf course can do. Now, we did have 0:35:56.640 --> 0:36:00.600 a lot of tree removal done before we actually started 0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:05.640 doing any seeding, which that's going to be needed if 0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:07.480 you if you want to if you want a good 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:10.719 growing environment to grow the new seed, then you're gonna 0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:13.360 need to get the trees out. So some of the 0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:19.960 tree work was already done prior to that. But as 0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:25.600 far as as far as other local golf courses trying 0:36:25.640 --> 0:36:28.759 to do the same thing, it's it's not hard to do. 0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:33.120 You know. 0:36:33.239 --> 0:36:37.080 Can can you go out and pick off one or 0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:40.120 two holes a year and do something like this? I 0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:44.719 don't see why you couldn't. If you're going to start 0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:50.319 to do, you know a renovation that you want sixty bunkers, Well, 0:36:50.480 --> 0:36:53.960 now you now that's a different that's a different scope. 0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:57.120 That's a now you're now you're bringing an architect, Now 0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.080 you're bringing in a contractor to do that work for you. 0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:05.280 We have seventeen bunkers. It's less than nine thousand square 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:08.040 feet of bunker areas what exists out there right now. 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:14.720 So having small bunkers is a big help in doing 0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:21.319 that also. And just don't just don't try to do 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:23.880 too much. You can add a whole lot of interest 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:27.920 in a golf course without having to do too much. 0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:32.920 You know, widen the plaine corridors, take advantage of some 0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:38.040 slopes and you can provide a lot of interesting shots 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:39.080 without a lot of work. 0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:42.120 To me, a whole that would scream that at Wolf 0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:44.759 River is the eighth where it seems like you just 0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:49.120 took down some trees, exposed this great slope on the terrain, 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:52.880 and you know, then you know, reshape the green that 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:55.400 sits on this nice ridge. And it was like, I 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:57.520 think that was the thing I was kind of shocked about, 0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:02.080 is how well the original routing was done. That you 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.480 had like some holes that with a little bit more 0:38:05.840 --> 0:38:08.360 pizazz to it, with a little more short grass and 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:12.319 some reshaped bunkers and greens. Like it's like, wow, this 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.440 is a really great hole. But that eighth one, the 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:17.000 eighth hole stood out to me. It's like it seems 0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:20.360 like you just got got rid of trees, expanded the 0:38:20.360 --> 0:38:23.279 short grass, and you had you know, a hole that 0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:26.439 has like world class scale and interest. You know, you're 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:28.719 trying to hug it up the right side, and and 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:30.520 you know if you don't hit it right up the 0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:33.560 right side, you're going to bound further away from the target. 0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:35.719 It was. It just seemed like a classic golf hole. 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.320 Yeah, that's and that's all we did. There were fourteen 0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:44.200 trees on that hole that we removed, and just saying 0:38:44.200 --> 0:38:49.239 that is incredible. Fourteen trees that were lying in the 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:52.600 left and right side of the tree. There's a narrow 0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:57.520 shoot up that fair way, so yeah, remove the trees 0:38:57.560 --> 0:39:00.279 expanded out and there there was a bunker on the 0:39:00.320 --> 0:39:05.319 front right of that green beforehand, and I added that 0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:09.640 bunker in the back of the green just kind of 0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:16.960 dug into the slope that was behind the green. Yeah, 0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:19.960 you didn't have to do anything. That's one of those 0:39:20.200 --> 0:39:23.360 areas where you know, don't do too much. You're just 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:26.839 gonna start messing stuff up. Just let the hole sit 0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:28.680 in the land and be done with it. 0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:33.120 I know that you finished the big aspects of the project, 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:35.800 but you know, as we played in one round, you 0:39:35.960 --> 0:39:38.120 talked a lot about like other things you want to do. 0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:43.480 Having done so much work for such a low dollar amount. 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.239 What are the things that you want to add to 0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:49.720 the golf course as you continue, Like I imagine, your mind 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.920 probably wanders and thinks about the more stuff that you 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.880 can do to continue to improve the golf course at 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:59.000 a low dollar amount. What are some things that you're 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:00.960 looking at over the next you know, a couple of 0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:03.680 years as to what you want to add to the course. 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:09.480 We still have some forward tees to build, and there's 0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:12.399 some other t's that I'd still like to level out 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:16.040 more So it's just a matter of you know, rolling 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.200 the side back level in the soil and then rolling 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.360 the sod back on. We have one more bunker to 0:40:22.440 --> 0:40:25.560 rebuild on the twelfth green, so that that bunker was 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:29.879 never rebuilt on the twelve so we have one more 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:34.200 bunker to rebuild. And other projects more than anything else, 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:37.880 was kind of cleaning up the brush outside the holes 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:44.680 and just continue, you know, just continue nursing grass on 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:49.520 overseating thin areas. You know, when you reseed a golf course, 0:40:49.520 --> 0:40:52.640 it's it's not a one year project. That's that's a 0:40:52.719 --> 0:40:56.520 that's a three year project too that that requires you know, 0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:59.640 revisiting thin areas for a few years to get some 0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:04.480 more eat in the ground. Yeah, still some more trees 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.680 or we've got some willows that just are pain to 0:41:07.719 --> 0:41:11.200 deal with. So uh some willows that I want to 0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:14.680 take out. Expands some fairway area where these willows are. 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:20.280 So yeah, there's there's and those aren't those are still 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:23.200 like look on my notes, Like those items are in 0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:26.839 my notes for the project. It's just when when uh, 0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:31.760 you know, when when the plan didn't stay on the rails. 0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:34.920 When you got when you're rebuilding a lake instead of 0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:36.520 working on the golf course. 0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:41.560 Yeah, you have to pick and choose, and the focus was, Okay, 0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:44.280 we got to get right down the middle done first 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:47.480 and then we'll start working our way out. So so 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.799 those are still little projects that we're going to keep 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:53.279 going on. And you know, we've got seed and we've 0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:58.080 got the cedar, and you know, I like I like 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:02.239 seeding a lot better than sod. It'ser in and establishes 0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:05.799 better over the long term. So yeah, that's the plan. 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:08.560 Just keep picking off these little things as time goes on. 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:14.719 We're redoing some mowing lines. I know, Andy, you and 0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.319 Cameron both put your put your ball in the tall 0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:21.359 grass behind three green but I don't know if the 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:26.200 lines were painted, but we're expanding that mow lineback, so 0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:30.480 there's gonna be more motor grass behind behind three. So 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:33.799 just little things like that that you know, hopefully make 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:34.840 it more fun to play. 0:42:35.520 --> 0:42:39.680 What what's been the most satisfying moment since you finished 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:43.640 the project? What's what spend the you know, the time 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.880 that you just you know, couldn't help but smile on 0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:48.680 the inside the most. 0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:52.240 Yeah, driving around in the morning and seeing the finished 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:56.560 product is is a lot of fun. Now, you know, 0:42:56.600 --> 0:42:59.640 you get the sun coming up, you can see it 0:42:59.680 --> 0:43:01.560 a lot more now off the hills now that the 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:05.600 trees are thinned out, you can actually see the slopes. 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:11.000 It's really satisfying. And then you know, hearing other people 0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:16.000 come off the golf course that have played it for 0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:19.000 a long time or played it, you know, when they 0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:21.920 were a kid, and they come back and are just 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:26.839 gushing over the changes. You know, that's happened a few 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:33.240 times now, and it's really satisfying that, you know, somebody 0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:36.120 that was very familiar with the golf course before we 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:42.320 did the project really likes the changes afterwards, and and 0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:45.919 you know they have a similar excitement about it. Now 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.399 that that that I did when I was out there 0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:53.440 building a bunkers. So I think that's the most satisfying 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:58.200 thing is when when other people get to get to 0:43:58.239 --> 0:44:01.200 be excited about stuff that I I was excited about doing. 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:04.440 Did you have like an inspiration for the greens what 0:44:04.480 --> 0:44:07.080 you were trying to do? Would was there set or 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:09.440 certain types of greens that you had in your mind? 0:44:10.440 --> 0:44:13.280 There? When I started playing it out, I was trying 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:15.560 to do that. I was trying to say, Okay, what 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:19.000 what greens do? I like, can I mimic those greens 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:24.799 in a way? And I learned pretty quick that that 0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:28.640 was going to be that was gonna be me falling 0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:32.880 flat on my face trying to do that. And I 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.920 think the easier route was going to be, Look, just 0:44:35.920 --> 0:44:40.120 just get the surface drainage off and tie in the 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.919 contours with those outside the green as best you can, 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.279 and you know, the internal contours that kind of take 0:44:47.320 --> 0:44:52.960 care of themselves and you'll get some interesting putting. So 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:55.160 so yeah, I thought about it quite a bit. But once, 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:58.000 you know, once I got to it, it's like, no, 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:00.319 I don't think that's gonna I don't think that's going 0:45:00.400 --> 0:45:06.320 to work out for me. And it's it was easier 0:45:06.360 --> 0:45:09.799 and I think turned out better when I just take 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:13.200 my cues from what's on the ground there to begin with, 0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:17.880 and it gets a better result. It looks better, it 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:22.440 looks more finished. When, yeah, when I just kind of 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.479 tie into the little contours around the green or tie 0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:29.279 in bunkers to the slopes, rather than trying to, you know, 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:34.759 make make something that I saw somewhere else, I will 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:38.960 say the bunkers. You know, what I would have loved 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:41.120 to do with the bunkers is make them look like 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:45.200 you know, the heathln courses in England, like the Berkshire 0:45:45.239 --> 0:45:49.319 or lip Hook or Sunningdale, Like I love the look 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:52.480 of those bunkers. A lot of that has to do 0:45:52.520 --> 0:45:56.080 with the heather that's around him. But you know, some 0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:59.759 of the shapes that I saw in some pictures from 0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:03.480 those courses, like, you know, maybe I can, maybe I 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:05.960 can attempt to mimic those shapes and the bumpers that 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:06.359 I'm make. 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:10.760 So so I think like your path to two Wolf 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:15.000 Rivers interesting. You were in Chicago working at like big 0:46:15.120 --> 0:46:17.680 name club You had worked at big name clubs, you 0:46:17.719 --> 0:46:23.120 had since had offers to work at big, big name clubs, Like, 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:27.880 what drew you to working at this small casino resort 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:30.919 course in northern Michigan. What got you up there? 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:36.600 Well, I I had lived in bear Lake. When I 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:41.240 was at Perdue, I did an internship at Arcadia Bluffs, 0:46:41.880 --> 0:46:45.319 and after spending a summer at Arcadia Bluff, man this 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:49.280 northern Michigan is pretty awesome. So that was my first 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:54.799 time visiting northern Michigan and first summer, you know, first 0:46:54.840 --> 0:46:58.479 time spending a summer in northern Michigan. So I fell 0:46:58.480 --> 0:47:03.360 in love with northern Michigan then, and then stated in 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:07.400 Michigan to do three more internships before I graduated Purdue. 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.200 I did Wesco one Players Club down to Holland, and 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:14.600 then I did an internship at Crystal Downs also and decided, okay, 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:20.000 I want to find something in northern Michigan. As luck 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:23.920 would have it, when I graduated Purdue, Arcadia had an 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:28.000 internship available, so I worked for four years at Acadia 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:34.040 and then went down to down to Chicago. So I was, 0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:37.680 you know, very familiar with northern Michigan, and I love 0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:43.000 northern Michigan, and you know, just wanted to find a 0:47:43.040 --> 0:47:49.080 way back. And I knew of bear Lake Islands. I 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:51.680 had played it, you know, when I when I was 0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:55.480 living in bear Lake and interning at Arcadia Bluff, so 0:47:55.719 --> 0:48:00.839 twenty years ago, and I remember thinking, men, it was like, oh, 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:02.920 this place is kind of cool. But I hadn't been 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:08.160 back in a lot of years. And I saw the 0:48:08.239 --> 0:48:11.279 job posted and did a little research and found out, oh, 0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:14.759 that this job was for bear Lake Islands. I'm like, oh, 0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:20.120 that's kind of cool, and so I applied. And then 0:48:20.160 --> 0:48:23.640 when I came up for an interview, I toured the 0:48:23.719 --> 0:48:27.759 course and I was like wow, Like I was like 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:32.799 blown away. The course was terrible shape because it had 0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:35.319 been bank owing, so there's just been no investment in 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:39.680 it for many, many years. But man, the bones were 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:45.000 really nice, like the contours and even the layout was good, 0:48:45.080 --> 0:48:48.200 and I'm like, man, this could be really cool. So 0:48:50.440 --> 0:48:53.040 I kind of just talked with them about what their 0:48:53.080 --> 0:48:56.640 goals were for the property, and they're like, well, we 0:48:56.719 --> 0:49:00.000 don't know. This has kind of happened really fast for us. 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:02.120 We don't know what our goals are for the property. 0:49:03.120 --> 0:49:06.360 And they said, that's why we're hiring you. So it 0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:10.640 sounded like a good opportunity and I just I just 0:49:10.680 --> 0:49:15.840 took a shot at it, and it's it's been amazing. 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:20.279 I never had any idea that it would, you know, 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.960 just kind of snowball into into what it's what it's been, 0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:31.200 but man took a left turn and it's been awesome. 0:49:32.040 --> 0:49:35.000 It's I mean, it sounds like a job that provided 0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:38.719 you a lot of autonomy. And I think I think 0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:42.320 one of the things that probably is the toughest aspect 0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:46.880 of the superintendent life is the lack of autonomy the committeees, 0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:51.520 the you know, the idea of like, you know, all 0:49:51.680 --> 0:49:56.000 the layers of people that you have to work with 0:49:56.160 --> 0:50:00.800 and you know, in a sense for in in the 0:50:00.880 --> 0:50:04.279 in the at the high end club model versus the 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:09.279 autonomy that a a smaller shop and and you know, 0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:12.040 relatively hands off ownership can provide. 0:50:12.760 --> 0:50:17.400 Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Yeah, and it and 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:21.360 it was that way from the beginning. And you know, 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.600 I've been in those situations and and you know, you're 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:30.160 you're kind of an administrator of the strategic direction of 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:33.640 the golf course, you know, and at those big clubs 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:38.560 there's typically an architect that is on staff to make 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:41.640 those directions for you, and then there's a green committee. 0:50:41.640 --> 0:50:46.680 You have to answer to. Sometimes there's another capital planning committee, 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:51.880 and when you have all these different layers, any type 0:50:51.920 --> 0:50:56.879 of decision making for better or worse gets watered down. 0:50:56.960 --> 0:51:01.719 I think the best product, the best products of whether 0:51:01.760 --> 0:51:05.040 it's a renovation at a at a high end private 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:08.360 club or or like the work that we did, the 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:11.600 vision of one person or the vision of two people 0:51:12.120 --> 0:51:17.560 is what gets realized is what the best product is. 0:51:17.960 --> 0:51:20.680 And in my situation, you know, I didn't know it 0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:24.120 at the time, but yeah, they put a lot of 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:26.239 trust in me, and they put a lot of trust 0:51:26.320 --> 0:51:30.040 in me leading the crew. And yeah, with without a 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:33.759 lot of reason to trust me. You know, I don't 0:51:33.760 --> 0:51:35.960 know that I gave them a ton of reason to 0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:37.040 trust me. 0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:44.480 But they exactly, they knew they wanted it improved, and 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:46.719 I came to them with ideas and they, you know, 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:49.319 they were they got excited. 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:52.839 When, uh, you know, when I was presenting the plan 0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:56.560 for you know, if we were to close, what what 0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:59.440 could we do? You know, they kind of perked up, 0:51:59.680 --> 0:52:03.640 like they didn't they never thought about you can rebuild 0:52:03.640 --> 0:52:06.240 a bunker and you can plant new grass on the green. 0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:10.120 But yeah, if you close, you can do those kind 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:15.840 of things. And so they got excited and yeah, it 0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:18.480 just it just it just happened. 0:52:19.440 --> 0:52:24.000 When you think out now, I mean, I imagine that 0:52:25.440 --> 0:52:28.719 for you, with your interest in golf architecture, you're you know, 0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:31.960 at some point a large part of the point of 0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:35.000 large portion of your life, you wanted to be a 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:39.520 golf course architect. You know, you've almost I imagine, opened 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:44.239 up opened up a vein per se here, like you know, 0:52:44.320 --> 0:52:46.440 what do you want now? You know, when you think 0:52:46.440 --> 0:52:50.759 about your career before and after this, like, do you 0:52:50.840 --> 0:52:56.920 have more ambition to do more projects as in your future? 0:52:58.120 --> 0:53:02.040 Yeah, I would, I'd love to do more projects. It's 0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:04.560 not I still feel like there's some loose ends on 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:07.359 this one that I want to. I want to, you know, 0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:11.520 finish up, but you know, I don't know, I don't 0:53:11.560 --> 0:53:15.879 know where it'll take me. It was it wasn't. It's 0:53:15.920 --> 0:53:20.680 not something that I was, you know, thinking about when 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:23.320 I was doing the project. Doing the project, it's like, okay, 0:53:23.360 --> 0:53:26.720 well we're like I said, okay, we're going to rebuild 0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:30.080 this bunker. Let's rebuild this bunker. And and you know, 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:33.040 it was, how can I make this bunker interesting for 0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:34.640 the whole and how can I make it fit into 0:53:34.680 --> 0:53:38.880 the hole, and it was. It was never a there 0:53:38.920 --> 0:53:46.520 was never a larger overarching view of what it would 0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:52.200 turn into. So you know, if if something happened that, 0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:55.560 you know, i'd certainly and there's still projects on the 0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:58.960 table here that are going to allow me to to 0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:02.319 scratch that itch. You know, we've got all the materials 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:07.320 for a putting course. You've got some contouring done already, 0:54:07.360 --> 0:54:13.000 it's all cleared and yeah, so we've it's there. It's 0:54:13.040 --> 0:54:16.319 just a matter of getting to it. And you know, 0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:18.080 building up it's going to be about a two acre 0:54:18.160 --> 0:54:20.400 putting course and it's you just have some big, wild 0:54:20.480 --> 0:54:26.000 contours and yeah, so you know, I still get a 0:54:26.160 --> 0:54:27.600 I still get a play around in the dirt. 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:30.920 So with the with the one of the things that 0:54:30.960 --> 0:54:34.360 stood out to be was the conditioning. I thought, uh, 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:38.920 you know, you have a single cut of of fair way. 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:42.560 And then what I found really interesting was the greens. 0:54:42.680 --> 0:54:47.759 The firmness of the greens. They were extraordinarily firm, but 0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.440 I would just characterize them. You know a lot of 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:54.120 people there's this fascination with firm and fast. I would 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:57.839 say they were more firm and slow. But I found 0:54:57.880 --> 0:55:01.319 it to be a you know, like I haven't seen 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:04.560 many of my golf balls react the way that they reacted, 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:08.080 Wedges bouncing, you know, five six feet in the air 0:55:09.200 --> 0:55:12.120 and really it by the end of the round, I 0:55:12.239 --> 0:55:14.960 was having to hit shot. I had was having to 0:55:15.000 --> 0:55:22.040 carefully approach whole locations with you know, thinking, Okay, where 0:55:22.040 --> 0:55:25.040 am I landing this with short irons in my hand? 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:28.200 Something that's very rare, and you know, throw on top 0:55:28.239 --> 0:55:31.319 of this, It's not like I came in with two 0:55:31.400 --> 0:55:33.799 weeks of drought. There were there had been some substantial 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:37.560 rain in the recent time, in the recent weeks in 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:42.000 the area. How are you going about maintaining this golf 0:55:42.000 --> 0:55:44.560 course and presenting this and what are the advantages to 0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:47.480 presenting the greens in the manner that you're presenting. 0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:53.640 Yeah, that's uh, that's one of the goals is keeping 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:57.640 slower greens. And our goal is not fast greens. Our 0:55:57.640 --> 0:56:00.279 goal was to the interest in the green would be 0:56:00.320 --> 0:56:03.440 from the contours, and some of them are contoured in 0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:07.680 a way that just won't allow for super fast greens. 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.279 So yeah, I try to maintain them so that, you know, 0:56:11.320 --> 0:56:15.040 we can put interesting pins in some of these locations 0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:18.040 that you just wouldn't be able to if they were 0:56:18.080 --> 0:56:23.000 super fast, And yeah, that I think the firmness is. 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:27.200 I mean, that's how that's how they need to play, 0:56:27.360 --> 0:56:30.799 because that allows you to utilize the contours that are 0:56:30.840 --> 0:56:33.360 around the green, whether it's you know, trying to bounce 0:56:33.360 --> 0:56:36.640 something in off the right side of number eleven or 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:41.120 run something up from the front of the green. I 0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:44.640 think that's it's the most fun to play that and 0:56:45.200 --> 0:56:50.960 I think people are starting to learn that. And you know, 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:54.280 a lot of the clientele that that you know, we 0:56:54.280 --> 0:56:59.520 we attract, they're not used to that. And it is different. 0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:03.400 Last year we were major drought in the spring and 0:57:03.440 --> 0:57:06.680 these greens were there were tabletops. It was it was 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:10.839 extremely difficult to approach these greens. Last springs, they were 0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:13.320 brand new and it was a drought. They were really 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:18.240 hard and you know, there were a lot of complaints 0:57:18.280 --> 0:57:23.280 about that, and so we tried to balance, you know, 0:57:23.320 --> 0:57:25.880 how we're presenting the golf course with you know, the 0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:29.040 communication of that's that's how we want you to play. 0:57:29.080 --> 0:57:32.120 We want you to try to play different shots into 0:57:32.160 --> 0:57:35.080 the greens and having greens that are a little bit slower 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:39.240 allows you to run balls up onto the greens and 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:43.480 get them to hold a little better. And you know, 0:57:44.400 --> 0:57:48.800 it's it's not if you can get good surface drainage 0:57:49.040 --> 0:57:53.080 or you know, our native soil material drains well enough 0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:56.080 internally that you know, I don't I just don't have 0:57:56.200 --> 0:57:59.680 issues with excess water. It's if you know, you get 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:01.720 the big grain, can you get the can you get 0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:05.479 the water off the greens quick enough to be able 0:58:05.520 --> 0:58:11.360 to maintain the firmness And yeah, so far, so far, 0:58:11.360 --> 0:58:16.320 we've been able to do that. And yeah, the fine 0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:22.080 fescue makes a fantastic surface and you know, find fescue 0:58:22.080 --> 0:58:24.479 seeded into you know, we didn't do any we didn't 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:30.600 move any soil on the fairways, so that those are 0:58:31.000 --> 0:58:33.280 you know, still the soil that was there beforehand. So 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:38.360 that added some cushion. And when you plant a new 0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:42.680 variety of grass that is more drought tolerant, that cushion 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.200 gets really bouncy when it dries out. So the fine 0:58:45.240 --> 0:58:49.200 fescue can stay green, but if that cushion on top 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:52.120 dries out, it gets really bouncy. 0:58:53.320 --> 0:58:53.640 Yeah. 0:58:53.680 --> 0:58:58.000 So yeah, it's just a matter of yeah, trying to 0:58:58.000 --> 0:59:00.440 hang onto that, trying to hang onto those condition to 0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:04.400 give that you know, that playability. 0:59:05.440 --> 0:59:08.560 That's uh, it was I thought it was perfect. And 0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:12.600 obviously I think like the mowing, I imagine maintenance wise, 0:59:12.720 --> 0:59:15.280 you're you're saving a ton of time using the gang 0:59:15.320 --> 0:59:18.280 mowers to just have that single cut of of grass 0:59:18.280 --> 0:59:19.040 in the fairways. 0:59:20.280 --> 0:59:23.760 Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, our fairways we have about sixty five 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:27.800 acres of fairways. But we're able to utilize you know, 0:59:27.920 --> 0:59:31.720 large area tow behind mowers because there are large areas 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.320 that we're mowing. So it's much more efficient for us 0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:37.800 to mow with these large mowers, and we can get 0:59:37.840 --> 0:59:41.000 a lot of grass cut in a little amount of time. 0:59:41.160 --> 0:59:45.040 So yeah, it's very efficient to mow the fairways, even 0:59:45.040 --> 0:59:49.960 though they're large. It's very efficient to moan. 0:59:50.600 --> 0:59:56.800 Yeah, well, congratulations. I I'm not sure, you know, if 0:59:57.320 --> 0:59:59.040 you know, one of the things that you think about 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:03.240 is is how people decide renovation of the year or 1:00:03.480 --> 1:00:08.160 these projects, these awards, and it's you know, I doubt 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:12.680 that many golf digests for Golf magazine raiders were visiting 1:00:13.440 --> 1:00:16.480 your place. But I think in terms of sheer accomplishment, 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:21.440 you know, what what was done at the budget and 1:00:21.640 --> 1:00:26.200 the constraints of labor, and you know, a fairly aggressive 1:00:26.240 --> 1:00:28.800 time frame. I can't think of many projects over the 1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:33.520 last decade that have been as impressive, So, you know, congratulations, Stephen. 1:00:33.760 --> 1:00:36.960 I can't wait till my next visit up there. It's 1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:39.360 one of my favorite places in the world, Northern Michigan 1:00:39.440 --> 1:00:43.480 and definitely found another place that I will I will 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:46.160 frequent when I visit up there. It's a to me, 1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:48.480 you know, kind of like the perfect place to go 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:51.880 play golf when you're on vacation in Northern Michigan. Lots 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:55.960 of fun and and it's affordable and I think probably 1:00:56.000 --> 1:00:59.520 pretty welcoming to all golfers of all skill levels and ages. 1:00:59.640 --> 1:01:04.360 So congratulations. People can uh, you know, follow you. You're 1:01:04.440 --> 1:01:09.960 on X at Wolf River Greens uh and then on 1:01:10.560 --> 1:01:15.760 Instagram it's Stephen J. Beal and Stephen Beale no no 1:01:15.960 --> 1:01:21.439 Jay in there, so Steven Beal on Instagram And if 1:01:21.600 --> 1:01:23.640 if anybody wants to reach out to you, those are 1:01:23.640 --> 1:01:25.880 probably two good ways to get a hold of you. 1:01:25.920 --> 1:01:30.720 But big thanks for coming on. It's it's amazing to 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:32.480 see what you did up there. 1:01:33.000 --> 1:01:35.040 Thanks for having me and you appreciate. 1:01:34.600 --> 1:01:50.560 It all right. That was a great episode, great story. Everybody. 1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:53.680 If you're in Northern Michigan. Go visit Wolf River. It is. 1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:57.080 It's really cool. Big thanks to Stephen for coming on, 1:01:57.200 --> 1:02:00.240 and big thanks to p J Clark for editing and 1:02:00.320 --> 1:02:04.960 producing this episode. Thank you, PJ. A quick reminder, if 1:02:05.040 --> 1:02:09.480 you're interested in more golf course content, more content in 1:02:09.560 --> 1:02:13.520 general from US, check out club TF. It is our membership. 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:15.600 It is one hundred and twenty dollars for the year 1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:18.560 and it gets you a boatload of content. There are 1:02:18.640 --> 1:02:22.000 a couple articles every week I'm writing. I'm working on 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:25.720 one on Clearcreek, a little talks about Core Crunshaw up 1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:29.240 in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It's a course profile. It's 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:32.080 you know, it'll be a deep dive into the design 1:02:32.160 --> 1:02:35.680 of it. Check that out at the fridagg dot com 1:02:35.720 --> 1:02:39.920 slash membership. Thank you PJ, and thank you guys for listening. 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:51.000 We'll be back next week with a couple episodes of podcasts.