WEBVTT - No More Secrets | Stacey's Story 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.920 Hi all, we have some exciting news to share. EBC 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.120 News Studios has turned Ashley's story from Betrayal Season two 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:08.799 into a docu series. You will get to meet the 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.600 people involved, you will hear from people who have never 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:14.440 spoken before, and you get to see where the story 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.000 took place. We are so proud and excited to share 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.400 it with you all. You can start streaming it on 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:22.160 Hulu on July thirtieth. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:30.200 Stacy has pulled herself out of a complete nightmare. I 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:35.600 can't even imagine finding this out. If it would have 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.040 been my son, my husband wouldn't be here, it would 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.239 have been no trial too. Pear on myself. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.800 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, Season three, Episode eight, 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:06.520 No More More Secrets. In nineteen thirty one, the citizens 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.840 of Writing, Pennsylvania were upset because their courthouse, originally built 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.840 in eighteen forty, was going to be demolished. It was 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.280 to be replaced by a new, more modern building, a 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.720 huge granite and limestone structure with tall vertical windows. The 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.440 budget for the new courthouse was two million dollars, which 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:30.479 is about forty three million in today's money. The building 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.120 would be nineteen stories high in both sixteen courtrooms. It 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.399 was completed in nineteen thirty two, and nearly one hundred 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:43.000 years later, that same brooks Coning Courthouse stands today. This 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.760 is where Justin Rutherford would face the final chapter of 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:56.480 justice on Tuesday, February sixth, twenty twenty four. He would 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:59.520 be called to account for criminal solicitation to commit murder 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:03.240 in the degree it was time to pay for the 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.720 plot to kill Tyler. In the vastness of the courtroom, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.880 Justin looked small. He was dwarfed by the space and 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.519 by the judge looking down on him from the bench above. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.440 It was a stark contrasted Justin's last appearance in court. 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.840 There were no reporters and no crowds, just rows and 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:28.920 rows of empty benches. There were only four spectators. The 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.520 prosecutor had irrefutable evidence for her case, a jail house 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.920 informant had assisted law enforcement, and Justin was caught on 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.280 tape explaining the best time and method to kill Tyler. 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.880 It's what one might call a slam dunk. The prosecutor 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.920 had been hoping to reach a plea agreement, but it 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.240 appeared that Justin wanted to go to trial based on 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.919 the letters he had sent from jail and the absurd 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.120 speeches he had given during his sentence sing. I can 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.360 imagine the fantasy. He'd like a defense at need to 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.800 stand up like he's in a TV show and enumerate 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:07.800 Justin's many wonderful qualities. He's a great dad, a good provider, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.600 loved by his patients, and the judge would say, this 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.639 is a misunderstood man and a doctor. No less, this 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:21.639 is a miscarriage of justice. Maybe this time someone would 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.360 get it. He wanted a trial, he wanted someone to 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.880 say the words not guilty. 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:31.480 So a few. 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.200 Days before the trial, it was looking like he wasn't 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.800 going to make a plead deal until he did. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.400 I still had to show up just in case at 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.840 the last minute he would have threw a Hail Mary 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.920 and said, no, I'm not signing this. I want a trial. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.880 The district attorney said that we would have went directly 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.120 into one. So to my knowledge, all of the witnesses 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.200 were there. The guy that was the informant, I think 0:03:59.200 --> 0:03:59.840 he was there. 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.160 Based on the transcripts we've re enacted some of the 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.040 court proceedings from the hearing. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.360 Your honor, we are here in the matter of commonwealth 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.000 of Pennsylvania versus Justin Rutherford Docket seven sixty six. We 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.880 were listed for jury trial for today. However, the defendant 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.760 has completed paperwork for a guilty plea today. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:27.840 Stacy MICHAELA and a victim advocate sat behind the prosecutor's 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:32.920 table in Courtroom five A. A familiar person sat behind Justin. 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.920 It was just Nanny. She was the only one that 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.240 went to the first case on his behalf to That's 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.200 just kind of how she is. I mean, when it 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:47.880 comes to him, there's really nothing that she won't do 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:48.960 for him. 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.160 Justin sat in the far corner of the courtroom as 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.480 prosecutor Meg McCallum laid out the details of the case. 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.920 Between October two of twenty twenty two and January sevente 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.360 teenth of twenty twenty three, the defendant did solicit an 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.279 inmate who was also in prison at the Burkes County 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.360 Jail System, who was going to be released from prison 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.680 prior to the defendant being sentenced. He asked him to 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.600 kill Tyler, a male juvenile who is the victim. At 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.680 Dockett three seven five to two of twenty twenty one, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.359 where the defendant did plead guilty and was sentenced for 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.080 rape of a child in other related offenses. The defendant 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.480 did have discussions with the inmate, describing Tyler and his family, 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:32.440 schedules and when it would be best. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.000 To kill Tyler and methods to kill Tyler. 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.880 The defendant provided Tyler's address and a diagram of the 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.400 home where he lived with his mother and his other siblings. 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:46.240 The defendant indicated to the inmate that after the murder 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.280 was completed, that he should flee to Europe and that 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.800 he and the defendant would meet up with each other 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.880 after the defendant was released from prison after his sexual 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.160 assault case was dismissed, and that the defendant would then 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:02.839 provide the inn mate with money from a secret bank account. 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.799 Tyler did not attend this hearing. He had a job 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.560 and didn't want to return to Pennsylvania and give Justin 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:16.600 the satisfaction of seeing him again. Stacy was permitted to 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:20.239 make a victim impact statement. She spoke directly to Justin. 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.440 She let him know how strong her family was and 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:28.280 that his crimes didn't break them. He appeared unmoved and vacant. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:32.640 He looked right through her. Then the judge asked if 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.200 there was anything the defendant wanted to say there would 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.880 be none of the wild statements from the last hearing. 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.880 This time, Justin's lawyer spoke for him. 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.200 Yes, Judge, good morning. Mister Rutherford has written a lot. 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.440 I'm going to try to read some verbatim and summarize some. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.440 His last sentencing kind of went off the rails a 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.520 little bit, and I want to try to focus on 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:58.679 the sentencing as much as I can. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.960 This new lawyer was a little bit more sensible considering 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:07.840 the first case and knew that what he wrote up 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.320 probably was really screwed up because Justin didn't read it. 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.320 He is amongst probably the more educated defendants you'll find. 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.200 He was a physician, your honor, and a lot of 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:28.120 these are not excuses, more mitigation that I'm about to present, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.640 and not to excuse his behavior, but mister Rutherford was 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:39.200 quite mentally ill in jail. The insanity defense is not possibility. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.920 Given the clandestine nature and some of the code and 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.960 some of those things. This could have very well been 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:53.160 a guilty but mentally ill sentence. However, with the current sentence. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:54.680 It's not appropriate. 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.080 He was on and off medications, and he you know, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:05.920 did in his letter. And I'll try to read it verbatim. 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.480 He does accept responsibility for his actions. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.760 His lawyer had the paper in front of him, and 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:15.840 he kind of would skim over it and be like, yeah, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:16.760 we're not saying that. 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:17.000 No. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.200 Justin's attorney then pulled out a letter Justin had written 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:20.760 for Stacy. 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.560 I read the letter, Judge. I believe it's appropriate. It 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.840 puts simply what a rocky road. I'm sorry to have 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.920 put you through this stress. I've allowed myself to be 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:38.400 a product of my environment. You know that's not the 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.800 real me, the man who was never violent at home. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.360 It's no excuse. I'm just trying to do what's right 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:52.640 and what's honest. I know I made mistakes, lots of them, 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.199 but I hope you will release that grudge you hold 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.680 against me. I still pray for you every night. I'll 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.680 never stop, take care, wish you the best. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.959 Justin said those words again, I was never violent at home. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.240 Several months in prison had done nothing to enlighten him 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.439 to the fact that rape is violence. The idea that 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:21.040 he was praying for Stacy revealed the arrogance he still possessed. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.720 He always has something to say, He always wants to 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.440 make excuses for his behavior versus taking responsibility for what 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:31.320 he did to Tyler. 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.040 But legally he had taken responsibility and that's what the 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.839 prosecutor wanted. It would limit his ability to appeal or 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:41.640 change his mind. 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.960 Your Honor, the Commonwealth made this offer of five to 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.200 ten years concurrent based on the length of the sentence 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:53.560 that the defendant received at Dockett three seven five two. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:54.079 Of twenty twenty one. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.000 I believe that the defendant has now taken responsibility for this. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.520 It alleviated the necessity of a trial, which we all 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:06.959 know is often burdensome to everyone, and Miss Rutherford had 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.559 indicated to me through are multiple discussions that she was 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.120 okay with that. And so we are asking that Your 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.199 honor go by the agreed upon sentence to bring closure 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.040 to this family. And because he's serving a sentence of 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.880 twenty six years ten months at his minimum, he would 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.960 not even be eligible for parole on his underlying sexual 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.079 assault charges until he is close to. 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:35.400 Sixty five to ten concurrent time, meant he would get 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.840 no additional prison time. The judge didn't have to agree 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.040 to the plea deal, and he let everyone in the 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.840 courtroom know the only reason he did was because of 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.480 the length of Justin's sentence for rape and voyeurism convictions. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.240 The whole process took half an hour. When it had finished, 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:54.839 Stacey asked to meet the informant, Justin Selmate, who had 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.560 come forward to report Justin's plan to kill Tyler. 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.120 I just wanted to thank him for essentially saving my 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.080 child's life. Had it not been for him coming forward, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:10.079 this would have never been possible. What his crimes were 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.760 is irrelevant to me. What was relevant was that he 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:15.200 saved my child's life. 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.000 The prosecutor declined to make that introduction, but she did 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.839 promise to convey Stacy's gratitude to the informant. It would 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.840 have to be enough, and with that, after three years, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:32.800 it was all over. They were finally really done with 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:44.040 Justin with the legal proceedings in the rear view mirror, 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.320 Stacy and Tyler are holding their community close, and it 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:49.840 might surprise you some of those closest to them today 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:53.520 are members of Justin's family. In previous series, I've seen 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.080 examples where blood relations take sides, but that has not 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.120 happened here. They support Stacy and accept that it's Justin 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.720 who caused all the damage. Here's Justin's and Nancy. 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.720 It is extremely hard to accept that the little baby, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.600 the little boy I knew, did something like that to 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:20.360 another little boy. I just I couldn't understand it, and 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:21.800 I still can't understand it. 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.800 Another relative, who wishes to remain anonymous, we'll call her Susan, 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:29.200 recalls finding out what happened. 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.920 I actually threw up because I'm like, what is he 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.680 doing now? To mention the first day, but I don't 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.160 understand how he came to that point. You're born innocent. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:41.960 How in the world do you get so wired up 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.600 where you want to kill somebody and playing it out? 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.160 He's so arroganting. He wants to actually see me for 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.120 two hours straight to explain everything he thinks. I'm an idiot. 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.040 I walk in there, He's going to look at me 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:55.400 in ass and tell me why. 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.439 I wondered if Nancy thought about seeing Justin and what 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.640 you would want to see to him, I. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.160 Would ask him why. Tyler's a great kid. And I 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.760 don't understand why he did that to that little boy. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.120 What was done to him was wrong. I owe to 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.640 us Justin on what planet he thought that was even 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:20.200 remotely right? And then to hook up camera, well, what 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.719 was he thinking. I know in his mind he's justifying this. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.400 I was in love, he was my boyfriend. But you 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.439 and I know that is just plain ass wrong. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.400 Susan Russell's with going to see Justin in prison. 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.720 He can't expect he's going to turn me on his side. 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.959 I can't imagine Tyler lion all these years and then 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:44.840 you want to kill him. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:45.080 Two. 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:51.319 No, I want to see him because I want to 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.960 say goodbye before something happens to him. 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:03.160 Both women have very strong feelings about justice. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:09.360 Stacy has pulled herself out of a complete nightmare. I 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:14.680 can't even imagine finding this out. If it had been 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.800 my son, my husband wouldn't be here, it wouldn't have 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.880 been no trial. I'd have took care of him myself. 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.680 Justin's aunt, Nancy admires Stacey's restraint. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.720 Stacy's a stronger person than me. I'd attacked him, yet, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.600 when I found out what he did to my child, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:33.040 it would have. 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:33.640 Been all over. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.280 I'd have probably been the one in jail. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.640 Susan loves Tyler and has been looking for signs that 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:42.560 he's okay. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.600 Our last meeting, our last dinner, we have the kids, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.320 me and him, talked and he literally he got up 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:51.760 and gave me a hug, and I said, this is 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.320 the first time I've seen you smile. So he's going 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.120 to help somebody. Somebody is scared to death, is going 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.360 to hear this. He's not gonna be scared anymore. And 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.000 he's still think it's okay or she to go get 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:04.440 some help. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:10.480 She is particularly concerned for Stacy's youngest daughter, Justin's biological child. 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.640 I'm morally worried about her now in the future because 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.280 that's her dad. You're going to have dad and daughter dances, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.600 You're going to have school with them bringing their dads. 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.480 That's going to torment her because someone's going to always 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.440 ask where's your dad? And that's going to really be 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:27.720 harder as she gets older. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.280 But she knows Stacy is on top of all of it. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.040 I'm really proud of Stacy. She's just going to have 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:35.680 a long road. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.400 When I visited Stacy and Tyler in West Virginia, I 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.480 noticed how long it would take to travel a mile. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.600 The terrain was so different from what I normally see. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.040 My air and BnB was just a mile and a 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.600 half away, yet it still took twenty five minutes to 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.640 reach Stacy's home. There were winding roads and out of 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:01.640 the way passes I had to drive through in the 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.240 other direction, and I realized it was such a good 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:12.920 metaphor for living with betrayal and the aftermath. Rebuilding is 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:17.120 a process. It takes you in different directions. It's not linear. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.120 For Stacey and Tyler, it's been three years and they've 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.040 made a lot of progress, but sometimes it doesn't feel 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.160 like you've traveled very far at all. It's a reminder 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.920 that when you're climbing a mountain of grief, it just 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.080 takes time. What grounds you is taking stock of what's 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.240 around you or in front of you. During those drives, 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.880 winding up and down across the mountain range, we would 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.440 drive in and out of rainstorms. I would look far 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.320 out to see light beaming onto the vast pastures in 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.560 the valley, and I thought of Stacy, Tyler and their family, 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.800 the love they have, the closeness they share, their laughter 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:58.480 and sense of humor. It's unique, beautiful and rare. It 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.720 radiates like the light shine down on the valley Hope 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:07.760 while navigating a mountain in a storm. I knew when 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.120 we wrapped up this story that it wasn't finished. They 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.320 aren't finished, but they are going to be, okay. I 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.480 wanted to sit down with each of them to reflect 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:21.080 on the experience of putting their story out there. What 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.879 was your main purpose for doing this? 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.320 Just to help people and hopefully reach some man out 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.040 there that felt like I did and felt alone and 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.480 let him know he's not. Actually At the start, I mean, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.960 I was definitely a little nervous to talk about it. Yeah, 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.320 I think it'll always be hard to talk about somewhat, 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:46.360 but it also feels relieving, like you're breaking out of chains. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.520 Even Tyler's friends are seeing him differently in. 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.800 A good way, you know, the stigma around boys and 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.280 how nothing serious. Like I have this one friend who 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.920 when we're hanging out, he's always saying something stupid doing 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:00.680 I'm stupid. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:01.399 Goofball? 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.240 Yeah, there we go, goofball. He was like, you know, 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.959 we joke around with each other. But listening to that 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:12.199 was crazy because I didn't understand, like really how it 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.000 was so Like I've had a few friends come to 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.840 me and just really open up to me about like 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:20.560 how appreciative they were that I did that. 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:24.040 Tyler is grateful for the betrayal community. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.560 Thank you for listening. Thank everyone for listening if they 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.800 made it this far, because I hope if they made 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.920 it this far, that means they liked it, you know. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:35.920 And I'm glad they stuck to the end because I've 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.200 even had some relatives tell me it was kind of 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:39.840 hard to listen to and they had to stop it. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.440 So yeah, I appreciate the people that wanted to hear 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:48.080 my story out and just listen. No one can ever 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.400 find out my secret, because it's not a secret. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:52.240 Stacey. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.240 When we first started, and when you were thinking about 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.480 why you would want to do this project, what were 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.920 the reasons, like? Why did you want to do this? 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:03.760 You know? 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.720 It was really hard for me to find people to 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.200 relate to, so I felt very much alone. And when 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:13.440 I heard the first two seasons, it made me feel 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.080 not so alone, and I wanted to be that for 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:22.960 someone else. I also wanted Tyler to heal through this too. 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:25.679 I knew that there would be a lot of healing 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.800 in talking about this for our family, and there absolutely 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.320 has been. I've seen such a huge change in our 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.400 interaction with each other and how we've handled things, and 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.000 I wanted that for someone else. 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:46.520 I have watched you and your family since we've started 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:54.080 working together, and I definitely acknowledge this need and want 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.240 from you to feel seen. And I think so much 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:00.600 of your connection to Justin is this was a person 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.080 it felt like he saw you. He felt very seen 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.240 in that relationship, and the grieving of not having that 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.960 has been really difficult for you. But the one thing 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.080 that I just want you to have is I want 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.440 you to be able to see yourself as an incredible 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.760 person the way that I see you. I left Boston 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.520 being like, who wants already made family. I do like 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:31.680 I want to be part of Stacy's family. So we 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:35.879 reached out to people who wrote in and they have 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:41.359 some messages for us. Okay, I haven't heard these, so 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.639 both of us are listening to this for the first time. 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:50.879 My name is Anna. I was driving and just kind 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.600 of going through the episodes and my fiance happened to 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.399 be in the car with me, and Tyler was talking 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:01.560 about how he ended up coming for how he. 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:02.960 Really really didn't want to do it. 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:08.959 And then he ended up deciding to be that voice, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:13.119 and my fiance he made a comment like, you know, yeah, 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:18.960 this happens a lot more than people think. Later, I 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:20.879 couldn't get it out of my mind that comment he 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:21.280 had made. 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.960 And so we were getting ready for bed. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.760 And I asked him about it. I was like, have 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.760 you ever experienced something like that? He was really really quiet, 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:39.000 and he goes, yeah, like when I was seven, an 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.680 older cousin was at the house and some sexual abuse transpired. 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.000 Sometimes something happens and it reminds you and it all 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:49.920 comes rushing back. And he said that that was kind 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.640 of a moment that he had after hearing Tyler tell 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.879 his story. It was extremely extremely emotional. I mean, I 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.199 feel horrible that this person I love so much had 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.840 to go through this, But I know he said that 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.320 talking about it after all this time was like a 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:07.960 huge burden off of him. 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:09.240 It just made me. 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:14.600 Grateful that he ultimately told me about it. I'm glad 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.680 that I know this about him and that it's something 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:22.040 that we can now speak about openly. You guys, sharing 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:30.040 your story truly is life changing. Something as simple as 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.159 riding in the car and just listening to it to 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.400 pass the time, you never know what kind of conversations 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.800 it can spark. I just commend you so much for 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.720 your strength, and I cannot say thank you enough. 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.719 After the break, a male listener shares how Tyler's story 0:22:48.080 --> 0:22:55.880 has helped him to confront his own past. I'm with 0:22:55.920 --> 0:23:00.080 Stacy and Tyler for our final episode of Betrayal season three, 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.040 and we're hearing some feedback from listeners. Okay, so here's 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:04.640 another one. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.040 My name is Stroud and I am from the Houston, 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:14.560 Texas area. It wasn't until I got married, started having 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.800 some issues, got addicted to pornography and stuff like that. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.199 I finally went to talked to a therapist and finally 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:27.920 realized as a child that I was assaulted. Going back 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:33.200 to when Tyler first opened up about what happened took 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.000 me back to when I first had discovered what the 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.399 root of the problem was. It's uncanny how your memory 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:45.400 just unlocks. You hear stories and you wonder, how can 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:47.959 that be true, But when you hear it and then 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:51.480 all of a sudden, you're reliving it. Wow, that happened 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:55.840 to me. Wow, he said that exact same thing. And 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:57.760 then my wife and I were sitting there one evening 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:00.199 and my daughter, who was just finished for junior year 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:04.960 of high school, comes in crying, and that's what she 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.240 told us, that she had been assaulted. Buying my father. 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:13.680 I worshiped that man. You know the rage I had 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:19.720 finding out that it happened to her. The anger came back. 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:24.000 I said, I know exactly what you're going through and 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:27.840 she said how? And I told her what happened to me. 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:34.680 Tyler spoke to him in court talking about how stonefaced 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.240 he was. He decided to speak on the fly without 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:41.200 havingything written down. That's kind of how I felt when 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.880 they sentenced my dad. I'm not going to speak because 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:48.240 I'm afraid I'm gonna jump over the wall and attack them. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:52.480