1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry, and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. So Tracy. 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: The story that begins with Jonathan Harker's travels to Transylvania 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: on a business trip to complete a real estate deal 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: is one almost everybody knows. If I tell you that phrase, 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: you would say, I would say Dracula, right, because Dracula 8 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: is iconic. And we have talked about Dracula on several 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: episodes of this podcast, when we talked about the lives 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: of Christopher Lee and f. W. Murnow and Bella Lugosi 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: and Dwight Fry, And it seems like we must have 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: talked about the life of Bram Stoker before. Yeah, we 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: have not. No, we had a whole conversation where you 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: were like, I can't believe we haven't done this, and 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: I was like, but we did, though, No, it has 16 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: come up. I feel like what's come up more than 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: Bram Stoker himself is his estate and his widow not 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: giving people permission to adapt his work. But really we 19 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: have not talked about him at all. Uh It this 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: is a case where once I started getting into the research. 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: After you and I had that discussion, I knew we 22 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: had not talked about it at all, because there's part 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: of his story I would have remembered and have been 24 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: texting all of my friends about for the last several 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: days leading up to this recording. So today we are 26 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: going to talk about Bram Stoker. Abraham Stoker was born 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: on November eight eight His parents lived in the Clontarf 28 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: suburb of Dublin, Ireland. His father was also named Abraham Stoker. 29 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: His mother was Charlotte Matilda Blake Thornley Stoker, and this 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: was a large family. Braham had two siblings when he 31 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: was born, and the Stokers had another four more children 32 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: after him. And as a child, Bram, who was still 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: going by Abraham at that age but to separate from 34 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: his dad go ahead and go to his adopted name 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: of Brann, was not healthy. He was confined to his 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: bed or wherever an adult would carry him for the 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: first seven years of his life. And we don't actually 38 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: know what the nature of this illness was, and there 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: have been all kinds of theories, from it possibly having 40 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: been some sort of a fever, to a psychological element 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: being part of it, possibly a trauma of some kind, 42 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: but this is absolutely all speculation. We do not know 43 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: what was up here. Most biographers make the case that 44 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: this early phase of Stoker's life definitely influenced everything that 45 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: came afterward. Braham's mother told him about the cholera epidemic 46 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: that she had lived through, and specifically people being buried alive. 47 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: His father would tell him family stories, including military battles, 48 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: and also described plays that he had seen. All of 49 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: this seated Stoker's imagination, and he had a lot of 50 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: time alone with his thoughts since he couldn't really get 51 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: up and go with his siblings and his peers. But 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: despite this early start in this mystery ailment, Stoker made 53 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: a full recovery. Biographer Barbara Belford, who was one of 54 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: several biographers that wrote about him, mentions how very odd 55 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: it is that Stoker never gave any detail of his 56 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: illness in his writing about himself. This was not a 57 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: family that was ignorant of medical matters. His uncle, William 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Stoker was the family doctor. He also had three brothers 59 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: who became doctors. But the truth of those early years 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: seems to have been obscured and lost to time. Although 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: a lot of scholars of Stoker's work have scoured his 62 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: writing for clues like any time he mentions a child 63 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: being ill, or they like is this a reference to 64 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: his youth? But details regarding the end of his illness 65 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: are as murky as the illnesses itself. He would later write, quote, 66 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: this early weakness passed away, and I grew into a 67 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: strong boy in time, in large to the biggest member 68 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: of my family. In eighteen sixty four, when Stoker was seventeen, 69 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: he enrolled at Trinity College at the University of Dublin, 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: And while he may have started life in pretty poor 71 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: health as a college student, he was actually really athletic. 72 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: He was an accomplished gymnast and a rugby player. He 73 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: also participated in endurance racewalking. He won prizes in five 74 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: and seven mile walks. He also cut a pretty striking figure. 75 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: He was six ft two with red hair, and he 76 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: was popular. Invited to join both the Historical Society and 77 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: the Philosophical Society, and he was elected to positions of 78 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: responsibility in each of them. His time at Trinity overlapped 79 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: with that of Oscar Wilde, who was younger than Stoker. 80 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: The two of them knew each other, and Bram had 81 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: actually nominated Wild for membership of the Philosophical Society. Yeah, 82 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: that's an interesting overlap. It will come up again in 83 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: just a bit. So here's the thing. Stoker's performance in 84 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: school did not really hint at his future legacy. While 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: he excelled at sports, was kind of an average student academically, 86 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: but he was writing essays and papers about things that 87 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: sparked his interest in his societal participations, including one's titled 88 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: Sensationalism in Fiction and Society and the Necessity for Political Honesty. 89 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: In eighteen seventy, he graduated from Trinity. He would later 90 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: say he graduated with honors in mathematics. This is untrue. 91 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: Trinity College actually has a biography of him, and they're like, 92 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: we don't know where he got this. If you're wondering 93 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: about it taking six years for him to earn a 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: bachelor's degree, that's because he was also working for all 95 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: but the first two years of that schooling. Stoker took 96 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: a civil service job at Dublin Castle thanks to an 97 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: assist from his father, who had also worked there as 98 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: a civil servant until his retirement in eighteen sixty five. 99 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: So he was working six and a half days a 100 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: week while also taking classes. So at that point six 101 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: years is past to me. Yes, me as well. And 102 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it's almost like this 103 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: sets the stage for his whole life of just being 104 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: constantly working on a lot of things and making time 105 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: for more things than anyone humans should fit in a day. 106 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: But after he finished school, he continued in his civil 107 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: service position, although he also continued to be interested in literature. 108 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: In his last years of school, Stoker became somewhat obsessed 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: with Walt Whitman, and that deep interest in the man 110 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: and his work continued long after graduation from Trinity. In 111 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: February seventy two, Stoker wrote Whitman a two thousand word 112 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: letter in which he said, among other things, quote, you 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: have shaken off the shackles and your wings are free. 114 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: I have the shackles on my shoulder still, but I 115 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: have no wings. Stoker's letter continues on to describe himself 116 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: and detail including the sorts of things that a person 117 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: today might normally share, maybe with a therapist, including how 118 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: he chose to interact with people, as well as the 119 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: sort of things he might tell pen pal, and then 120 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: it concluded with quote, now I have told you all 121 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: I know about myself. So couldn't actually mail this letter 122 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,559 Speaker 1: to Whitman, though instead he left it in his desk 123 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: for the next four years, intending to make a clean 124 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: copy to send. This is a level of procrastination I 125 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: feel like I can experience in my life. I think 126 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: we all can. There's also the possibility, and again this 127 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: is a matter of speculation that some people have theorized 128 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: that he recognized how sort of raw and familiar this 129 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: letter was, and like, while that may have been his 130 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: truest feelings, he was also a little trepidacious about actually 131 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: sharing it, Like maybe I shouldn't send this to someone. 132 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't even want to acknowledge that I just 133 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: wrote all of these things to my literary hero, because 134 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: that's weird. We'll talk more about this whole thing on Friday. 135 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: But after a gathering at which Whitman's work was criticized 136 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: and rebutted in eighteen seven six, and we should point 137 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: out that, you know, Whitman was controversial in his time. 138 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: There were poems, for example, that were part of Leaves 139 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: of Grass that were left out of some publications of 140 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: that work, particularly in Britain. There was a lot of 141 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: discussion about whether his work was appropriate in some cases, 142 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: but at that gathering Stoker provided the defense position of 143 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: the poet, And afterwards he wrote another letter to Walt Whitman, 144 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: similarly familiar and kind of intimate. He talked about having 145 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: defended him because he thinks he is such a great man. 146 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: And this time he actually mailed it, as well as 147 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: that one that had sat in his destroyer all of 148 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: the intervening time. And Whitman got these letters and replied 149 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: that he hoped that the two of them would one 150 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: day meet, and he commented on the unconventional, manly and 151 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: affectionate way in which Stoker had addressed him. Those are 152 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: all adjectives that I am quoting from Whitman regarding Bram 153 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: Stoker's writing. If if you want to know more about 154 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: Walt Whitman and his writing, we have a previous episode 155 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: on him that I feel has been a Saturday classic, 156 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: not that long ago, but it has been long ago 157 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,359 Speaker 1: enough ago since we recorded it that I have no recollection. 158 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: If it mentions Bram Stoker in any way, I don't 159 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: think so, because I think I would have remembered. Uh 160 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 1: so anyway, Whitman had been particularly delighted in all this 161 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: by a passage in which Stoker called him the quote father, brother, 162 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: and wife to his soul. Whitman later told a friend 163 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: that he felt that Stoker had actually been writing to 164 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: himself and kind of working through his own thoughts, and 165 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: that he felt compelled to respond to the young man. 166 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: Although Stoker had hoped that Whitman might one day travel 167 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: to Ireland and they could meet, Whitman's health at the 168 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: time kept that from ever happening. Yeah, he was not 169 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: able to travel, um, but don't give up on that thought. 170 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: This writing, these letters to Walt Whitman are the only 171 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: instances of writing from Stoker's youth where he speaks so 172 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: openly about himself and his inner world. He tends to 173 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: kind of keep his private thoughts private for most of 174 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: the rest of his writing, so they have become a 175 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: really important part of his history. In eighteen seventy six, 176 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: Stoker was promoted into the newly created position of Inspector 177 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: of Courts of Petty Sessions, and this money had to 178 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: travel to various municipalities and audit their small claims courts. 179 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: Three years into the job, he published a book on 180 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: this subject called The Duties of Clerks of Petty Sessions 181 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: in Ireland. Bless him. This sounds dull as dirt. I 182 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: mean it's literally like going to a court and hearing 183 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: people talk about things. Uh. In one biography they mentioned 184 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: like him him sitting in on hearings about things like 185 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: dog licenses. Uh, you know, neighbors complaining against one another. 186 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: But meanwhile, while working in his civil service job by 187 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: day and probably finding it a little less than intellectually stimulating, 188 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: Stoker started a side hustle in the evenings as a 189 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: writer on more interesting topic. He first wrote theater reviews. 190 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: He did not get paid for these, but he did 191 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: create a significant change at the Dublin Evening Mail in 192 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: working on them. Up to that point, theater reviews normally 193 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: published two days after the show that was being reviewed, 194 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: so if you went to a show on Friday night, 195 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: the review of it would appear Sunday. But Stoker, who 196 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: again was a very busy bee and would pack a 197 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: lot of work into any day, instigated a shift so 198 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: that next day reviews would run at the paper. So 199 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: if you saw that Friday show, the review would run 200 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: on the Saturday morning and learning the discipline of writing 201 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: and doing this on a deadline enabled him to turn 202 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: his pen to more creative efforts, and he started writing 203 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: short stories as well. In eighteen seventy two, he had 204 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: actually already published the first of his short stories, that 205 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: was one called The Crystal Cup. But in the late 206 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies he also started editing a fiction magazine. In 207 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five, he published a novella over several installments 208 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: in the periodical The Shamrock. That story is called The 209 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: Primrose Path was published under the name A Stoker Esquire 210 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: that unfolds over ten chapters. This is a morality tale 211 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: about the dangers of alcohol, and it tells the story 212 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: of a carpenter from Dublin who moves to London and 213 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: becomes an alcoholic, which ultimately leads to misery, so much misery. 214 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: It's a very dark, dark story in many ways. In 215 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: late eighteen seventy six, bram Stoker wrote a theater review 216 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: that changed the course of his life. And we're going 217 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: to talk about that. After we first paused for a 218 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: sponsor break, as we said before the break. In eighteen 219 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: seventy six, bram Stoker wrote a review this review was 220 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: of Henry Irving's performance as Hamlet, and it was glowing. 221 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: Bram was already something of a Henry Irving fan. He 222 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: had seen the famous actor on stage for the first 223 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: time in eighteen sixty seven, when he had attended a 224 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: performance of The Rivals in Dublin, and he had, when 225 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: he saw that first performance, been thinking about a career 226 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: in acting himself, and Irving asked Stoker out to dinner 227 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: as a thank you for this. This was a start 228 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: of a long and very close friendship. Henry Irving became 229 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: a pivotal figure in Bram Stoker's life, so it's worth 230 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: giving his biography a little attention, just for context. So 231 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: Irving was born John Henry broad Rib in Somerset, England, 232 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: on February and when he was six his parents moved 233 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: to Bristol, where his father had found a new job, 234 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: but they left John Henry with an aunt and uncle 235 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: in Cornwall rather than moving him to a city. He 236 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: did rejoin his parents a few years later in London 237 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: at the age of ten. He started work as a 238 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: clerk as a young man, but really always wanted a 239 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: life in the theater, so with financial assistance from a relative, 240 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: he started purchasing costumes and wigs, and then he bought 241 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: a role for himself in a local production of Romeo 242 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: and Juliet. He appeared in that as Henry Irving. From 243 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: there he started working with stock companies. This a bit 244 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: performer and was an hund of shows touring Great Britain. Yeah, 245 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: I read one statistics that said something like over the 246 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: course of three years he was in four hundred different roles, 247 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: so he was doing a lot of very small bit 248 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: players kind of acting. Irving really started gating recognition in 249 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: the mid eighteen sixties, and in eighteen seventy one he 250 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: became very famous for his appearance in The Bells at 251 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: the Lyceum Theater. He appeared at the Lyceum as the 252 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: star of the company for the next several years, and 253 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: it was in late eighteen seventy six that he starred 254 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: in Hamlet, which was of course reviewed by Bram Stoker 255 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: for the Dublin Evening Mail, and after reading that review 256 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: in the morning, Irving wanted to have dinner with Stoker 257 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: that very evening. The two men wrote letters to one 258 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: another for several years, and in eighteen seventies seven, Irving 259 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: made a move that really changed Stoker's life. He purchased 260 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: the Lyceum Theater in London and asked Stoker to be 261 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: its manager. Irving would work as the director of the 262 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: productions and of course also star in them, and then 263 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: Stoker would handle the business, from tickets to press releases 264 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: and managing the staff. This was a really big ask. 265 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: Henry Irving was the most famous actor in late nineteenth 266 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: century England, and he was also known to be intense 267 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: and demanding and uncompromising. And Bram Stoker, who adored Irving, 268 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: didn't think twice about it. He bid a jew to 269 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: Ireland and his civil service job to start a new 270 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: as Henry Irving's business manager, essentially in eighteen seventy eight, 271 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: and this job was not a hobby job, so the 272 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: two of them could hang out. The Lyceum was large, 273 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: with a seating capacity of two thousand, and it was 274 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: a social hub for London society in addition to all 275 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: the regular business of his position, entertaining the illustrious patrons 276 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: of the theater after shows with luxurious dinners that also 277 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: fell under Stoker's job description. This is a gigantic job 278 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: for one person. Yes, it is in doing this though 279 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: he met numerous luminaries, including Mark Twain, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, 280 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: and Prime Minister Gladstone. This is so much work, and 281 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: despite these long hours demanded of this job, Stoker still 282 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: found time to write, and this was on top of 283 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: the fact that he was writing several dozen letters a 284 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: day on behalf of Henry Irving, so handling both his 285 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: business correspondents and his personal correspondents and things like fan mail. Somehow, 286 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: while doing all of this, Stoker also got married in 287 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy eight to Florence Malcolm. Florence was eleven years 288 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: younger than he was and was pretty outgoing, whereas he 289 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: was more shy and reserved. Her claim to historical fame 290 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: is being the exquisitely pretty girl that Oscar Wilde fell 291 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: in love with, and she didn't apparently tell wild that 292 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: she had married his friend from Trinity. While he was 293 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: off traveling. Oscar Wilde wrote her a letter that he 294 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: wished to have a gold cross back that he had 295 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: given to her because it represents the sweetest time of 296 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: his youth. She told him that he could come to 297 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: their home and get it, but he thought that would 298 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: be inappropriate and asked that they meet at her parents 299 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: home instead, and Florence, for her part, also wanted something back. 300 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: She wanted all of the letters that she had sent 301 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: Oscar Wilde when they were corresponding and courting. It is 302 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: unclear if these things were ever exchanged and given back 303 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: to each other. Uh This whole interaction, and this sort 304 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: of triangle of relationships is often summarized as Florence having 305 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: the choice to marry either Bram Stoker or Oscar Wilde. 306 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: But while Oscar Wilde, in his writing to her, does 307 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: seem to have really been hurt by Florence marrying his friend, 308 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: there's no evidence that he was ever suggesting that he 309 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: should be her husband or that they should get married, 310 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: and wild An Stoker did remain friends despite this whole thing. 311 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: Bram and Florence had one child, a son named Noel. 312 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: That was the first year after they were married, maybe 313 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: in response to finding himself a father. In eighty one, 314 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: Stoker published a book of children's stories called Under the Sunset. 315 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: There didn't seem to be a lot of discord in 316 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: the Stoker marriage, but there also didn't seem to be 317 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: that much closeness or devotion between them either. No, they 318 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: did a lot of stuff separately. Um Stoker was a 319 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: man who valued efficiency and organization, and he was absolutely 320 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: excellent at managing Irving's every need at the theater, and 321 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: he seemed to put his job and Irving ahead of 322 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: everything else in his life, including his own family. For example, 323 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: the newlywed Stoker's even skipped a honeymoon instead, Bram and 324 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: Florence had traveled to Birmingham so Bram could work. Stoker 325 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: had not even told his boss that he was getting married. 326 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty three, the Lyceum Theater mounted a tour 327 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 1: in North America. Stoker managed all of the logistics, so 328 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: the first of many such tours, and Stoker collected his 329 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: experiences into a travelog called A Glimpse of America that 330 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: came out in eighteen eighties six. On these travels to 331 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: the U S, Stoker met two presidents, McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt, 332 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: and more importantly, he was finally able to meet Walt Whitman. 333 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: And at this point these two writers had been trading 334 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: letters for years, so there was a pretty easy friendship 335 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: to their meeting. Although descriptions kind of make it sound 336 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: like Stoker was initially a little nervous there was one 337 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: blemish to mar this beautiful occasion, though Henry Irving had 338 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: insisted on going to meet Walt Whitman as well, so 339 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: Stoker felt a little bit cheated of the intimate conversation 340 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: that he had dreamed of having with his idol. Woman 341 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: noted also that Stoker had switched from going by Abraham 342 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: Stoker to Bram Stoker, and he did not particularly like 343 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: that shift in name. He just didn't think it was 344 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: very dignified. But overall it was a really, really good meeting, 345 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: and Stoker declared Walt Whitman to be quote, a man 346 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: amongst men. During the eighteen nineties, Stoker was still publishing novels, 347 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: including The Waters Moo and that feature star crossed lovers 348 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 1: as part of the story. There's also The Shoulder of Shasta, 349 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: which is a romance set in northern California. Even as 350 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: these books were being published, he was also working on 351 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: what would become his masterpiece, Dracula. While Bram Stoker was 352 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: normally a very fast writer, Dracula took him far longer 353 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: than his previous novels. He wrote it over the course 354 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: of seven years, and perhaps even longer, but that's how 355 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: long we know he was working on it while he 356 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: was touring with Irving and working on other writing projects. 357 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: We'll talk a little more about some of the research 358 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: that went into the most famous of Stoker's books after 359 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: we first take a break for a word from the 360 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 1: sponsors that keep stuff UMIs in history class going. If 361 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: you look at the notes that Stoker compiled as he 362 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: was assembling his Vampiric Tail, it becomes really apparent that 363 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: he was, as we mentioned earlier, meticulous. He had carefully 364 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: plotted out Jonathan Harker's journey to Transylvania by train, using 365 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: actual train schedules and only using connections that he believed 366 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: would have actually worked, and he created a table of 367 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: all of the correspondents that would appear in the book 368 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: to ensure that the dates that they posted in the 369 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: dates that they would arrive in the recipient's hands was realistic. 370 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: It also seems as though all of his work running 371 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: at theater and tours kind of informed the way he 372 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: constructed narrative. He also was a writer who really believed 373 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: in research, and his work researching what would become the 374 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: novel Dracula is really deeply associated with the town of Whitby, England, 375 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: on the country's east coast. He is said to have 376 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: visited a library in Whitby to look at a specific 377 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: selection of the Special Collections title by William Wilkinson, which 378 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: is an account of the principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia 379 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: with various political observations relating to them. It is from 380 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: this book that he is said to have learned of 381 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: the name Dracula in relation to lad Tepeesh. Prior to this, 382 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: Stoker was planning to name his villainous character Count vomp Here. 383 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: This was a rare book. It's an odd thing for 384 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: Stoker to have just known about. But a friend he 385 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: knew from his theater circle, Arminius van Berry, had told 386 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: him about the story of the locking a count and 387 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: the book that he could find it in. Yeah, piece 388 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: of knowledge. It's a very strange thing, right. I can 389 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: only imagine as a librarian having someone walk in and 390 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: be like, hey, you know that rare book that you 391 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: don't even tell people you have. I would like to 392 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: see it please. I mean, it's literally that strange um. 393 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: Stoker then visited the Whippy Museum to work on that 394 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: route that we mentioned a moment ago for Harker to take, 395 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: including making notes about latitude and longitude, and next Stoker 396 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: consulted with the Royal Coast Guard at the nearby harbor 397 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: and discussed the topic that would figure prominently in the 398 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: story of Dracula. In five, the ship Dmitri had left 399 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: the port of Narva in Estonia and had on the 400 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: ground near Whitby. According to the locals, only a few 401 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: members of the crew survived, and there was a black 402 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: dog that emerged from the ship and ran off while 403 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: rescue efforts were under way. The Dmitri had been carrying 404 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: crates of silver sand. That may sound mysterious, but silver 405 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: sand is actually a fine white sand that is commonly 406 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: used in construction mortar. But if you've read Dracula, that 407 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: might sound familiar, but not exactly the way you remember it. 408 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: Stoker borrowed the story of the Dimitri for the novel, 409 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: making the ship the conveyance of Count Dracula from his 410 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: home country to London, but in the fictional version the 411 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: name is changed to the Demeter, which also invokes the 412 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: Greek goddess and its associations with the cycle of life 413 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: and death, and Narva changes to Varna, Bulgaria as the 414 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: departure point for the ship, and Stoker's fictionalized version the 415 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: silver sand remains, but the ship is also filled with 416 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,959 Speaker 1: crates of earth from Count Dracula's homeland, and then, of 417 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: course the black Dog becomes an embodiment of the vampire himself. 418 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: Stoker's research wasn't confined to Whitby. He continued to consult 419 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: the library regularly to make notes that would contribute to 420 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: Dracula once he was back in London, but would be 421 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: is very closely associated with the book at this point. 422 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: Vampire stories long predated Dracula, and like there are a 423 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: vampire like entities like all over the world in various 424 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: mythology and folklore and fiction. But Stoker's version of vampireism 425 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,679 Speaker 1: is really what we've come to know as like the 426 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: classic vampire tropes, the vampire being able to shape shift 427 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: into animals, the Count suddenly becoming almost crazed with thirst 428 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: when Harker cuts himself shaving, and the vampire needing to 429 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: be invited into a home. All that's present here in 430 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: the nineteen o one Icelandic edition of Dracula titled Mocked 431 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: Meer Crana which translates to powers of darkness. The preface 432 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: that Stoker wrote includes insistence that the events relate in 433 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: the Dracula story are true, writing quote, I am quite 434 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: convinced that there is no doubt whatever that the events 435 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: here described really took place, however unbelievable and incomprehensible they 436 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: might appear at first sight, and I am further convinced 437 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: that they must always remain, to some extent incomprehensible, although 438 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: continuing research in psychology and natural sciences may in years 439 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: to come give logical explanation of such strange happenings, which 440 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: at present neither scientists nor the secret police can understand. 441 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: I state again that this mysterious tragedy which is here 442 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: described is completely true in all its external respects, though 443 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: naturally I have reached a different conclusion on certain points 444 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: than those involved in the story. But the events are incontrovertible, 445 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: and so many people know of them that they cannot 446 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: be denied. So this has led to all kinds of 447 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: speculation since it came out about whether Stoker was referencing 448 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: Jack the Ripper here. The Icelandic version of the book 449 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: is different from the originally published version though having been 450 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: abridged quite a bit when it was translated back into English, 451 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: and it became really apparent that the original translator of 452 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: Stoker's work into Icelandic Vladimar Asmondson, had reworked the plot 453 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: significantly and created a very different story. I remember when 454 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: the English speaking world found out about this and was like, what, Yeah, 455 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: it's actually really good. Um. If anybody wants to seek 456 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: it out, I think right now as we record this 457 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: in October, Uh, if you have an Amazon Prime account, 458 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: I think you can download the Kindle version for free, 459 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: and Audible has the audio version available as a freebee. Um. 460 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: And it's really quite delightful. And if you are a 461 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: person who loves Dracula, it's very interesting because there are 462 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: characters you have never seen before in the story are 463 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: events play out very differently. Some things are condensed, some 464 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: things are gone completely. Uh. And it's just a new 465 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: way to experience this piece of lore. Yeah. I also 466 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: feel like I should just clarify that most people in 467 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: Iceland also speak English. When I say the English speaking world, 468 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: I mean like places like the United States in Britain. Yes. Uh. 469 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: When Dracula was originally published in seven it was really 470 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: well received, but it really didn't hit the global long 471 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: reaching popularity it would eventually achieve. It was kind of like, 472 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: you know, if you see a movie and it's like 473 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: a great movie that year, but you don't think, like, oh, 474 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 1: this is going to launch a kajillion things. Uh. Stoker's mother, Charlotte, 475 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: is said to have quite liked it and actually believed 476 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: it would be a huge success and and be one 477 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: of the things for which her son would be remembered. 478 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: Publishers in the United States were not initially interested in 479 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: this story, so Stoker actually purchased the U S copyright 480 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: for himself. The first American edition of the book appeared 481 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: in eight Analysis of the text alongside Stoker's life story 482 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: has sometimes led people to believe that Dracula as a 483 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: character is based at least partially on Henry Irving and 484 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: his demanding nature. It's also possible that rather than modeling 485 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: it on Irving, Stoker was kind of thinking about how 486 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: Irving could play the count in a stage version of 487 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: the story that actually did not work out. Stoker had 488 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: arranged a reading of the Dracula story in play form 489 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: at the theater before the novel came out, Irving declared 490 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: it dreadful the fool Um. At this point in time, 491 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: the Lyceum was faltering. The plays that they staged were 492 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: not doing as well as they once had, and Stoker 493 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: had thought that Dracula might be an opportunity to regain 494 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: some interest in financial footing for the business, but Irving 495 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: would not have it, and then the theater had a fire. 496 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: The building was not destroyed, but they lost a lot 497 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: of their stock, props, and scenery. It was expensive and 498 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: messy as all of these problems piled up, and the 499 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: Lyceum had to enter into a receivership so that its 500 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: assets could be liquidated to cover its debts. The productions continued, 501 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: although in less grand stagings than the theater had once seen. 502 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: Henry Irving gave his last performance in October nineteen o five. 503 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: He died that night, just after returning to his hotel. 504 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: Stoker got there soon after his friend had collapsed, but 505 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: it was too late to save his life. After Irving's death, 506 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: Bram Stoker wrote about his own life and his long 507 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: business partnership and friendship with Irving in a two volume 508 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: book titled Personal Reminiscences of Henry Irving. This was Stoker's 509 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: most popular work in his lifetime. Although this was not 510 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: some scandalous reveal of the man behind the public face. 511 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: Bram Stoker wrote of Irving in the most positive, agilation 512 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: soaked way imaginable. At this point, Stoker was without the 513 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: job that had required all of his attention for so 514 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: many years, and so he turned to writing full time. 515 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: From nineteen o five to nineteen eleven, he published several 516 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: short stories and novels in addition to his Irving memoir. 517 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: The last of these was The Layer of the White Worm. 518 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: It's a very strange horror tale with a lot going 519 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: on in terms of plot threads, including a story about 520 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Mongoose's Yeah, there's a whole lot going on in that. 521 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: Some of it is um very outdated in terms of 522 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: how different people so the worlds are perceived. In his 523 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: last year, Stoker found himself financially strapped. He did some 524 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: more theater management to make ends meet, but primarily he 525 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: continued to focus on writing. Dracula continued to be popular 526 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: enough to earn some royalties, and Stoker also wrote a 527 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: bit as a journalist for the Daily Chronicle, profiling notable 528 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: figures of the day. He also did something that seems 529 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:46,959 Speaker 1: a little bit odd, which is that he took up 530 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: the flag of censorship, as in he was pro censorship. 531 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: He advocated for banning inappropriate books and writing that quote. 532 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: A close analysis will show that the only emotions which 533 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: in the long run harm are those arising from sex impulses. 534 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: During that time, his health also declined. He had a 535 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: series of strokes starting in nineteen o six, and in 536 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: nineteen ten he had what he described as a breakdown 537 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: from overwork. That was on a petition for a grant 538 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: from the Royal Literary Fund in nineteen eleven. Continually, dwindling 539 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: finances led Bram and Florence to move into a more 540 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: modest apartment. They left the one that had been their 541 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: home in London for more than three decades. Bram Stoker 542 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: died at the age of sixty four in nineteen twelve. 543 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: That was the same week that the Titanic sank. In 544 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: the days leading up to his passing, he had, like 545 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: all of London, been transfixed by the story of the 546 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: ship's demise and the investigation that was soon to begin. 547 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Even in death, Stoker left something of a mystery. There 548 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: are three causes of death listed they are kidney disease, exhaustion, 549 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: and locomotor ataxia, So that last one, locomotor ataxia, was 550 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: generally used as a synonym for tertiary syphilis, and that, 551 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: of course has led to all kinds of speculation about various, 552 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: usually salacious ways that he could have contracted syphilis. But 553 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: looking at all of his symptoms and his behavior leading 554 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: up to his death, that doesn't really add up. It's 555 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: possible that he was misdiagnosed due to some of the 556 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: lingering effects of the strokes he had had, but we 557 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: will not ever really know. Yeah, I have read. Uh 558 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: some biographers are like, We're not even sure why the 559 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: corner put multiple causes of death when just saying kidney 560 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: disease would have covered it. Um. But this fascination with 561 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: the possibility that Stoker could have had syphilis is really 562 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: part of a much bigger speculation that has gone on 563 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: for over a century about the author's sexuality, and he 564 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: seems in so many ways to be a tangle of 565 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: repression and confusion regarding sexuality and desire in his writing, 566 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: with so much erotic content that it sometimes seems he 567 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: doesn't even realize he is, including There are multitudes of 568 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: papers analyzing the sexuality of Dracula and the disdain for 569 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: the Victorian new woman that is present in a lot 570 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: of Stoker's work. His obsession with figures like Whitman and Irving, 571 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: and his friendship with Oscar Wilde, who he saw goes 572 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: through the trial that ultimately, you know, kind of ruined 573 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: Oscar Wild's life, have naturally led to speculation about an 574 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: attraction to men that he may never have truly recognized. 575 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: But this, like his childhood infirmity and his cause of death, 576 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: can never be conclusively known. What we do know, though, 577 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: is that Dracula has never been out of print. It 578 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: has been adapted into films and musicals and ballet, and 579 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: has inspired innumerable other vampire stories, and it also just 580 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: continues to do so. Oh Bram Stoker's Dracula. Um, we 581 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: can talk more about it in the behind the scenes. Yes, 582 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: he's so um fascinating and complex. And I really did 583 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: not know all of that while Whitman stuff to the 584 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: degree that laid well and I took a second while 585 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: we were kind of in our in in a sponsor 586 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: break movements um to see, I don't think we mentioned 587 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: any connection to bram Stoker in the Walt Whitman episode. Yeah, 588 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um I yeah, I want to 589 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: rewatch all of the Dracula now and think about him 590 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: in this way. Um. I don't have regular listener mail, 591 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: I have an illustrative tale. I'm eager for this. Well, 592 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: it's just one of those things where it's kind of 593 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 1: a peek behind how this works. And you mentioning that 594 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: you looked up in the Walt Whitman episode whether we 595 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: mentioned bram Stoker kind of plays into it. Um. This 596 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: is uh. I got a Facebook message from our listener 597 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: and our friend Mariam, who I met through the podcast 598 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: and and have you know, exchanged notes with back and forth. 599 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 1: We met her also at one of our live shows 600 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: and she mentioned that she was doing paper on pandemics 601 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: and she had found an older episode of Stuff You 602 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: Missed in History class that talked about the Black Plague 603 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: and she thought there had been a more recent one 604 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: with the two of us, but couldn't find it. And 605 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: it gave me a moment where I was like, I 606 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: have to look this up because I don't remember. Um. 607 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:18,959 Speaker 1: And it is one of those things that I feel 608 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: like comes up often and We've talked about it a 609 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: little before, but I I always like to illustrate it. 610 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: It literally just the same as we were, like, did 611 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: we do a bram Stoker episode? Um, there are moments 612 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: where the Black Death and things like plague in particular, 613 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: and bram Stoker is another good example, and Walt Woman 614 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: because he comes up in many things where it's really 615 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: hard to remember what we haven't haven't not done as 616 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: a full episode, particularly when that topic comes up in 617 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: many other episodes as sort of a secondary piece of 618 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: the story. So it it always cracks me up a 619 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: little bit because people will often be like, you did 620 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: an episode on this, and we're like, no, we'd and 621 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: sometimes we will realize that what has happened is that 622 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: they have stitched together what they thought was a longer 623 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: episode in their head. Uh. Sometimes it is people confusing 624 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: our show for other shows. Yeah, and I'm not making 625 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: fun of anybody, because I have absolutely done this before 626 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: where I've been like I remember hearing this on an 627 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: episode of n Invisible and it was like actually on 628 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: Criminal or something like it was those shows are very dissimilar. 629 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:29,919 Speaker 1: I don't know how. I don't think that's a real 630 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: example from my actual life. But we have for sure 631 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: had people email us and say, hey, I just I'm 632 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: trying to find this episode you all did and I 633 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: can't find it anywhere, and I'm like, that was not us. 634 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry. Yeah, it's just uh an interesting illustratous 635 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: example of how and sometimes we don't even know for sure. 636 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: We literally have to go back to an index that 637 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: Tracy put together a while back when we were changing 638 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: um over the way our website worked, and she just 639 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: gathered all of our metadata into a big document, especially 640 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: when you go back to shows that were before you 641 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: and I hosted. I I have a lot of gaps 642 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: in my knowledge of that, even though we try to 643 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: keep track of it and look at it periodically. But 644 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: it is an interesting thing and I feel like it's 645 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: a good illustrative example of what has often come up 646 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: in the show. I feel like it's come up a 647 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: lot lately of cases like Bram Stoker where he misremembers 648 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: things about his past, and there are oftentimes it came 649 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: up to in the Elena Blovotsky episode. People will report 650 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: even their own biographies incorrectly, and sometimes in some cases 651 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: the initial response is to presume a sort of nefarious 652 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: level that they're lying or covering something up. But it's 653 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: also worth noting that people have faulty memories. Is often 654 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: also what occludes historical records is that even when you're 655 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: talking is someone fairly recently after an event has taken place, 656 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: they will relate the events incorrectly. Um. Just just a 657 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: little point of reference for everyone as we all talk 658 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: about history all the time, to remember personal personal accounts 659 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: are great, uh and sometimes like the most primary source 660 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: you can get. But also to remember that they are 661 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: not remembering necessarily right. And one day someone will um 662 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,239 Speaker 1: be like, Holly and Tracy remembered stuff incorrectly, and we'll 663 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,799 Speaker 1: be like, that is correct. Yeah, I definitely remembered it 664 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: incorrectly all the time. Anyway, that was my little trip down. 665 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: I wonder if people realize how tricky it is to 666 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: keep dragon what we've actually done episodes. If you would 667 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 1: like to write to us and ask us questions about 668 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: episodes we may or may not remember doing, you can 669 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: do so at History Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 670 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: You can also find us on social media as missed 671 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: in History, and you can subscribe to the show them. 672 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: Just remember to do that you only have to remember 673 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: for a second. You can do that on the I 674 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, at Apple Podcasts, or wherever it is 675 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: you listen. Stuff you missed in History Class is a 676 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I 677 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 678 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.