1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Maria no Josa Latino USA. And as many 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: of you know, dear listener, here at Futuro Media, I'm 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: also the co host of our award winning show In 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: the Thick. It's a show where we talk politics unfiltered, 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: and so we want to share with you a recent 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: episode of In the Thick. It was actually very special 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: because I was sharing the mic with my dear In 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: the Thick co host and fellow journalist Paula Ramos. We 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: are talking all about her new book, it's called Defectors, 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: the Rise of the Latino far Right and what it 11 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: means for America and why is it that Latinos can 12 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: be particularly susceptible to extremist ideology. And you definitely want 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: to listen to this because you're going to learn a lot. 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: So enjoy, dear listener, but also be sure to subscribe 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: to In the Thick wherever you get your podcasts. Okay 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: ai lisba. 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Yo, what up? This is Mariao Hosa. 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: Welcome to In the Thick and you know that just 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: now this season it's me and my three fabulous co hosts, 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: doctor Christina Greer, Judy Reyes and the fabulous journalist Baula Ramos, 21 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: who joins me today it's just me and bau La Baula. So, 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: dear listener, Paula is an Emmy Award winning journalist. You know, 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: you see her a lot on MSNBC and Telemundo with 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: the fabulous hair. And Baula is having a moment because 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: her second book is out this week. It's called Defectors, 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: The Rise of the Latino Far Right. 27 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: And what it means for America. 28 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're going to talk about her 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: book about extremism in this country, about miss and disinformation 30 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: campaigns aimed at Latino voters, and how all of this 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: is going to impact the upcoming elections. So this is 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: politics unfiltered. Let's get into it. 33 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: Baula. You know, give us your temperature. You were in Washington, 34 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: d C. 35 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: Last week, a lot of events, a lot of love 36 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: for your work. How are you feeling in this moment? 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: Kallest temperature. 38 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: I'm feeling great. I don't have to tell you my ya, 39 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: but it almost feels surreal. No, when you finally can 40 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: touch a book, No, I see all those words, print 41 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 3: it out, and so in that sense, I feel great. 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 3: I was in Washington, DC yesterday and it did feel 43 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: like a party, And I think because there does seem 44 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: to be so much momentum and so much enthusiasm and 45 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 3: just a complete different, for lack of a better word, 46 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: vibe shift when it comes to Vice President Harris's momentum 47 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 3: in the country. On the one hand, I understand that story. 48 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 3: I understand why people are so happy, But then it 49 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: kind of takes me back to twenty sixteen, no, where 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: the national polls showed so much momentum for Hillary Clinton. 51 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: And then when you start to zoom in, I'm even 52 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: thinking of a place like Arizona, where I was just 53 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 3: there a couple of days ago. You see that someone 54 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: like Donald Trump in Arizona among Latino voters, right this 55 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 3: group of voters that has endured the pain of someone 56 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 3: like Sheriff Jarpyo. He's polling at over forty percent with 57 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 3: Latino voters just in Arizona. And so I say all 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: this because that's my gut check. Right now, I'm like, 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: there's two stories happening at the same time, and it 60 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: kind of takes me back to twenty sixteen. 61 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: What about you? 62 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 3: What are you sensing out there? 63 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: I'm right there with you, Baulain. I haven't been to DC. 64 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to be there in a week. So I 65 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: think it's interesting that you were just like, oh my god, 66 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: everybody's having a great time and the energy and the excitement, 67 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: and then you're like, but then I went to Arizona 68 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: because I just came back from South Florida, and any 69 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: excitement for the democratic process was really, let's just say, crushed, 70 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: okay by speaking with so many Latinos and Latinas who 71 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: are like, oh, I'm going to vote for Trump? Really, 72 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: oh yeah, and then it's dystopian baolab. And I'm so 73 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: glad when I saw that you were going to be 74 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: working on this book, because because this is the kind 75 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: of journalism that we need, you know, Latinos, and as 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: I do the show Latino USA, I've been saying for 77 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: thirty years, we're really complex and complicated, and you really 78 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: went full in. You were like, I know this part 79 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: of who we are as Latin Americans and Latinos and Latinas, 80 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: and we can fall into adopting far right and extremist 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: views in your book, which congratulations Mucha's Felicida is Paula. 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. 83 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: You introduce us to this Latina lawmaker from the borderlands, 84 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: who is like all in for MAGA right on the border, 85 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: a former border patrol officer Latino who deported thousands of people, 86 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: only later to find out that he himself was undocumented, 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: right the Latina co chair of Moms for Liberty, the 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: group that's pushing the anti trans legislation sweeping the country. 89 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: So you really open up what we know, which is, 90 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: because of our history in Latin America, we are very 91 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: prone to fall into a lot of fear maundering. And 92 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: in your book you actually lay it out in very 93 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: clear ways about why Latinos and Latinas could fall into 94 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: ultra conservative beliefs. You break it down part one tribalism, 95 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: part two traditionalism, Part three trauma. Give us like the 96 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: brief synopsis as to why those three things are central 97 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: to understanding the right word shift of Latinos and Latinas. 98 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: So, by tribalism, I mean thinking about the racial baggage 99 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 3: that we carry as Latinos from Latin America to the US. 100 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 3: No and all of that manifests and a lot of 101 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 3: I think no internalized racism. When I talk about traditionalism, 102 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 3: I'm talking about the way that colonization has had in 103 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 3: Latinos know and how that makes many people come to 104 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: the United States with a sort of colonial mindset now 105 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 3: prone to things like Christian nationalism and the sort of 106 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: Latino evangelical wave. Now, when I talk about trauma and 107 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 3: thinking about the political trauma that so many Latinos have endured, no, 108 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: I'm not just talking about the waves of communism, knowing 109 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 3: how so many people have fled communism, but also sort 110 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 3: of talking about the very complex relationship many Latinos have 111 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 3: with strongman rule and authoritarianism, and so thinking about all 112 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: those things tribalism, traditionalism, and trauma, none of that manifests 113 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: and neat ways in American politics. I'll even take a 114 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 3: step back to even ground listeners into why I think 115 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: it's important to have this conversation. Now, most polls that 116 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: you're seeing right now have someone like Donald Trump pulling 117 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 3: around thirty five percent with Latino voters. Then you have 118 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 3: even the New York Times that has him at thirty 119 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 3: nine percent. And so the story that we're hearing on 120 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: mainstream media is that someone like Vice President Harris will 121 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 3: win the Latino vote. And I mean you and I 122 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 3: have talked about this extensively. It is true and that 123 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: will be the case now that the Democratic Party will 124 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: continue to win these voters. However, the idea that we 125 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 3: should not be alarmed at the fact know that someone 126 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 3: like Donald Trump now, who is supposed to be the 127 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: sort of antithesis of Latino's and of the immigrant community, 128 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: someone like Donald Trump that is in this moment promising 129 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: mass deportations, promising still to separate families, that someone like 130 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 3: him could still to this day pull close to forty percent. 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 3: That is alarming. And so when I first started kind 132 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 3: of getting into this topic, I believe that the answer 133 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 3: to the question of what's at the heart of the 134 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 3: right worship had everything to do with politics, with Magan, 135 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: with trump Ism, And I soon discovered that I was wrong, 136 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: now that so many of the answers that lead you 137 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: to the why actually have more to do with understanding 138 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 3: why we carry a lot of racial baggage from Latin America, 139 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: no understanding the impact and the weight that colonization has 140 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: had in our minds, and to your point, understanding the 141 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 3: political trauma that many Latinos carry and that can look 142 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: like the paranoid of communism, but that can also have 143 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 3: to do with the subtle traction that many Latino voters 144 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: have around the idea of strong men rule, no an authoritarianism. 145 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: La manola, the hard hand. 146 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: Right, we're gonna come down and you're gonna learn your 147 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: lesson exact though, kind of like we've had sometimes in 148 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: our families, right, like ill Papa, right, whis it? I see, yes, he. 149 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 3: Is exactly, And so the idea is a little bit 150 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: like if you look south of the border, then you 151 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 3: start to understand this a lot better. Why are suddenly 152 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 3: people in South Florida that really like the idea that 153 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 3: someone like Donald Trumpe Sun gal Rio? Or why if 154 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: I go to the Bronx, I've had endless conversations with 155 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 3: some after Latinas that like Donald Trump not just because 156 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 3: of MAGA, but because of the way that at times 157 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 3: he's able to criminalize Black lives matter? Or how do 158 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 3: we make sense of the fact that some Latino evangelicals 159 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: are warming up to Christian nationalism. The list goes on, 160 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: and it has not much to do with MAGA and 161 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 3: more to do with all the for lack of a 162 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 3: better word, like shit that we're carrying with us that 163 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: we just never talk about. 164 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: The context that you give us. Boula helps us unders 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: stand how is it possible that you would have Afro 166 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: Latinas from the Bronx saying Donald Trump is our guy? 167 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: How is it possible that you would have people believing 168 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: these things about ourselves. I want to take a moment 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: because I want our listeners to have a chance to 170 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: actually hear some of your work. You introduced us to 171 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: somebody named Anthony Aguero. He's the son of Mexican immigrants. 172 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: He is a vigilante. He spends his days live streaming 173 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: himself while he is stalking, literally stalking migrants along the 174 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: Texas border. So here he is, I live and breathe 175 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: the border. 176 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 2: I'm just so obsessively compulsively dedicated to this. I'm a 177 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: lone wolf. 178 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 3: He calls himself a lone wolf mahinande. However, it's important 179 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: to even talk about this because Anthony at Widow is 180 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 3: sort of an extreme example of what you're seeing among 181 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 3: some Latino voters, right. And this idea is that there 182 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 3: are more Latinos than we believe that are warming up 183 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 3: to the idea of mass supportations now warming up to 184 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: the idea of the wall, and so let's make sense 185 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 3: of it. Someone like Anthony at widow, he's a first 186 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 3: generation American. But the reality is that right now among 187 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 3: the Latino voting block, it is third generation Latinos, or 188 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 3: the fastest growing group of Latinos. So what that means 189 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: is that most of us speak English. No, most of 190 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 3: us are US born, most of us are under the 191 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 3: age of fifty. However, even though many Latinos now the 192 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 3: majority of them feel American and feels a sort of 193 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 3: distance not from their immigrant background, there's this subtle fear 194 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 3: that I found in my reporting amongst some Latinos, and 195 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: the fear is that mainstream America and white America will 196 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 3: always perceive Latinos as these sort of perpetual foreigners. Anti 197 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 3: Latino hate crimes rise in this country when mainstream talks 198 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: about caravans and talks about US quote unquote invasion at 199 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: the southern border. There's multiple studies out there that show 200 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: that as the degree and the rate of Mexican immigration 201 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 3: increases in certain counties, white people's attitudes towards their black 202 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 3: neighbors becomes more positive and their attitudes towards their Latino 203 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 3: neighbors becomes less positive. Wow, And why is that so talenting? No, 204 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 3: because the idea that senophobia can be so deep in 205 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 3: this country to the point that at times it is 206 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: able to subdue America's original sin, which is anti blackness 207 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 3: now and so that, coupled with what some Latinos feel 208 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 3: as their fight to claim belonging in this country, can 209 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 3: turn you into an anthony I wodn't know, it can 210 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: turn you into a sort of border vigilante type. 211 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we're just human, right. You want to be 212 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: with the majority, you want to be with the cool kids. 213 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: And in the United States, you know that means I 214 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: want to be accepted by someone like Donald Trump. I 215 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: want to be in that group, not in the. 216 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: Other group exactly. 217 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 3: And I think trump Ism is able to tap into 218 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 3: a sort of racial grievance and ethnic grievance that is 219 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 3: very familiar to some Latinos. Why because we're able to 220 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 3: sort of dance between the majority and minority. You know, 221 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 3: We're able to dance between claiming that we're Hispanic but 222 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 3: then also sort of claiming that we're white and Americans. 223 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: These people who are very polarizing who you interviewed, right, 224 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: they're like sometimes larger than life, but these far right 225 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: beliefs they show up in our everyday life as Latinos 226 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: and Latinas, So can you kind of paint that picture 227 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: and what that looks like and why they're there. 228 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: Look, I think when we typically think about this idea 229 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: of right wing Latinos, we think of anomalies. No, we 230 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: think of people like Endriguetaria from them proud boys. We 231 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 3: think of mainstream groups like Moms for Liberty. But I 232 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 3: think that the pathway towards extreme and towards maga is 233 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 3: a lot more seamless than we think. For many Latinos. 234 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: We think of people like these Latino evangelical pastors that 235 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: are out there sort of talking about Christian nationalism. But 236 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 3: remember who are those Latino evangelical pastors talking to a 237 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 3: room full of first and second generation immigrants. Most of 238 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 3: them are Spanish speakers, and they have families, and they 239 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 3: go to these churches to find belonging in community and safety. 240 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 3: And in a matter of seconds, if you're Latino pastor 241 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: sort of believes in mega starts infusing MAGA and faith, 242 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 3: what can at the beginning be a safe space can 243 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: suddenly transform into a politicized environment that leads you to 244 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: extremism and Trumpism, and that can happen to many people. 245 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 3: Part of the thing that I talk a lot about 246 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: in Defectors is this idea that you can't really talk 247 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 3: about us without talking about colonialism. 248 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: And I think one of the. 249 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: Things that you've done in your reporting idea is really 250 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: break down the role that painful history with colonialism has 251 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 3: had to this day among some Latino voters. And I 252 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: know you've been doing this for many years, and so 253 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 3: how do you break down the role of colonialism in 254 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 3: what it means to be a Latino in the United 255 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: States today? 256 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: Well, let me just paint you this picture. When I 257 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: first heard about the largest celebration for George Washington's birthday 258 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: and where it takes place, do you. 259 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: Know the answer? 260 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 3: Actually no, I don't. 261 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love this. The largest celebration for 262 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: George and Martha Washington where people close down the streets, 263 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: dress up in fifty pound gowns. Laredo, Tejas. 264 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: That's not at all the first place I would come 265 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 3: to mind. 266 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: Laredo, Texas, and they are proud and it's actually a 267 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: sight to see the metou Why in Laredo, Texas are 268 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: they celebrating George Washington other than the fact that they 269 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: are saying, we're on this side of the border, we 270 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: don't celebrate Minito. What is we celebrate George Washington. There 271 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: you have it. And then if you now move that 272 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: up to like modern times. It was twenty five years 273 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: ago when I was reporting about a little Cuban boy 274 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: named Elian Gonzalez. I remember that was the first time 275 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: that a Cuban political scientist, Max Castro told me in 276 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: order to understand the far right Cubans down here, you 277 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: have to understand PTSD. And I was like, Goma, what 278 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: are you talking about? And he was like, they left 279 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: their country. They are traumatized by communism. Very different than 280 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: when I was in college and you had Salvador and 281 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: Guatemalan refugees here who were running away not from communism 282 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: but from right wing military governments. 283 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 3: That's so interesting, you right, right, yeah, But it's all 284 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: connected though, right because I think at the end of 285 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 3: the day, you're talking about something that Simon Boliad was 286 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 3: pointing to in the nineteenth century. You know, in eighteen fifteen, 287 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: one of the things Simon Bolivad says. 288 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: I just want to take a moment. Yes, we are 289 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: quoting Simon Bolivad in the thick. Go girl, go, I 290 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: love this go no no. 291 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 3: What I was saying as you're saying that, I think 292 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 3: of Simon Bolivad, who, of course was considered another liberator 293 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 3: of Latin America, the one that sort of finally rid 294 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 3: Latin America from the Spaniards. He says, the American States 295 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 3: will need paternalistic governments to cure the wounds and the 296 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: ulcers of deputism and war. And so even in the 297 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 3: nineteenth century, someone like Simon Molira was already hinting at 298 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 3: the idea that at times when democracy feels messy, you 299 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 3: know that those environments require and will require strong men rule. 300 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 3: And what you just said, Mariam, makes me think of, 301 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 3: then the added layer that we're now seeing manifested in 302 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 3: US politics, and that is the way that the United 303 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 3: States government conditioned Latinos and Latin Americans to rely on 304 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 3: strong men rule in the name of ridding the West 305 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 3: of communism exactly. And to bring it back to American 306 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: politics right now, what's so interesting is that when the 307 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 3: Democrats go to places like South Florida or really any 308 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: battleground states where there's a heavy Latino population, and they 309 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 3: rely on this idea that if you paint Donald Trump 310 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 3: like a strongman rule in a gaudiyo, that that in 311 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 3: and of itself will scare Latino voters. But guess what, 312 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 3: it doesn't always work now, because so many Latinos have 313 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 3: been conditioned to believe that when democracy feels messy, the 314 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 3: way that at times it can feel now because of 315 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 3: the layers of missing disinformation, that what you need is 316 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 3: a strongman rule, and therefore Donald Trump is sort of 317 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: that image that rises from that. 318 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: Paula, I want you to talk a little bit about 319 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: you use this term fantasy heritage. 320 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I think fantasy heritage talks about this idea 321 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: that Latinos have a tendency to sort of romanticize and 322 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 3: idolize the Spanish colonizers, and the way that that manifests now. 323 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 3: I mean, I'll even talk about myself. No, my mom 324 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: is Cuban, my dad is Mexican, but I have a 325 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 3: really really thick Spanish accent span and guess what, so 326 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 3: many times the first thing that people will say is wow, 327 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: oh my seriously, oh my god, wow. I've even heard 328 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 3: really crazy things like oh, you're really Spanish. No, You're 329 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 3: not like those Latinos. This is Spaniola, and that's fantasy heritage. Now, 330 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 3: this idea that the Spaniards really institutionalized a racio and 331 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 3: social hierarchy were obviously being white and having that like 332 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 3: direct line to European heritage speaking sort of gave you 333 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 3: no an authority in status. And one of the things 334 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: that I find interesting is that there's some researchers that 335 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 3: have found that right wing Latinos when they're trying to 336 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: enter sort of extremist circles, one of the first things 337 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: that they use to enter those spaces is by claiming 338 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 3: a direct line to the Spanish colonizers. No, and that's 339 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 3: something that happen in time and time and time again. 340 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 2: Me don't get me started. 341 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: My grandmother, may she rest in peace, would say, Nostromo's 342 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: relation Gonnel Rey Carlos. 343 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: I don't even remember. 344 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: It was like Sianpra was like somerey a king in Spain. 345 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Please you focus on somebody who is very controversial and Riquetario. 346 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 4: Twenty two years in prison is what the judge handed 347 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 4: down to Enrique Tario, and that's because based off of 348 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 4: the evidence, he was widely viewed as the leader of 349 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 4: what happened on January sixth, twenty twenty one. Now we 350 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 4: heard from both prosecutors. 351 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: And of fow. 352 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: Now, of course he is one of the leaders of 353 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: January sixth. He is the leader of the Proud Boys. 354 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: He's in prison now, Paula, if you don't mind, can 355 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: you turn, Paula please to page one sixty seven of 356 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: your book. 357 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 3: Yes, Professor Nojosa. 358 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: And please read us, Paula about your reporting an Enrique Dario. 359 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 3: Could anyone ever have predicted that the son of immigrants 360 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 3: and afre Latino, who, as a boy once played on 361 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: the streets of Little Havana and dreamed of becoming a 362 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: spy in support of the US government, would be one 363 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: of the masterminds behind the January sixth insurrection. Perhaps it 364 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: was always obvious that, given the opportunity to shine Riquet 365 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 3: Dario would prove that he was a natural leader who 366 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: could usher the United States into one of the most 367 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: dangerous chapters in its history. He joined the Pride Boys 368 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen and rose quickly through the ranks, finding 369 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 3: belonging not just in the collective effort to fight the 370 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 3: radical left, but also in this sense of power he 371 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: gained through the extremist group. This newfound confidence enabled him 372 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 3: to demonstrate that an ordinary Latino man from Miami could 373 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 3: also carry the torch of white supremacy. Tribalism, traditionalism, and 374 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 3: trauma all culminated in Dario, making him an exemplary insurrectionist. 375 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: I mean, you paint this really clear picture of him. 376 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: In May of last year, he in fact, was found 377 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: guilty of multiple felonies, disious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct 378 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: an official proceeding, among them. US District Judge Timothy Kelly, 379 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: who sentenced Thatadio now he is a Trump appointee. Believe 380 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: it or not, this judge said that Tadio was the 381 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: ultimate leader, the ultimate person who organized, who was motivated 382 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: by revolutionary zeal and. In your book, you say that 383 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: those words struck with you. How do we come to 384 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: terms with a white supremacist who is not white? 385 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 3: Even just starting with the basic idea which I hear 386 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: so many times. I heard it not just from someone 387 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: like Drigue Dario, but from Naudil Gracia, who I intribute, 388 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 3: who is another generar sixth insurrectionist. One of the first 389 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 3: things he told me is, well, my name is Gracia. 390 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 3: There's no way that I can be a white supremacist, 391 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 3: and that's always how he led every single conversation. So 392 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 3: just even grounding us and the idea that, of course 393 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 3: not to be Ladina, to be an immigrant does not 394 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 3: make you immune to racism. It does not make you 395 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 3: immune too any of these sort of white supremacist tendencies. 396 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: And of course Thendriguetta is a prime example of that. 397 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 3: You know, I met him years ago before he sort 398 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 3: of became so alert and enamored with the idea of 399 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 3: the Pride Voice. My impression of hedrigue Dario was that 400 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: he was someone that never really fit anywhere. He grew 401 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: up in Little Havana, just a couple of miles away 402 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 3: from where I grew up in Miami, Dad County. He's 403 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 3: someone that, according to him, was always too black to 404 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: be considered a Republican. He was sort of too independent 405 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: to be considered a Democrat. So when the Proud Voice 406 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 3: offered him an opportunity to walk into their space, he 407 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: took it. And what's definitely important to mention is that 408 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 3: why did the broad Boys do that? 409 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 2: Well? 410 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: Because Henriguidario, who's an Afro Cuban who presents as a 411 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 3: black man, was the perfect guys for them and to 412 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 3: make the country believe that they were not racists. You 413 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 3: know that someone like indriguaetdar who was the leader of 414 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: the Prodvoys, shielded them from criticism. And so I think 415 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 3: in that power that Drigue Dario found with the Proud 416 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 3: Boys at the beginning, it was acceptance, and then he 417 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: took it as far as he could, you know, leading 418 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 3: him to the January sixth insurrection. What I think it's 419 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 3: interesting then about Enrique and a lot of the different 420 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: people that I meet, there's a moment in their journey 421 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 3: when you essentially realize just how tenuous like white power 422 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 3: is now when you look back and you really ask 423 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: yourself like did I belong? Was I really accepted that 424 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: they really love me? And one of the most interesting 425 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 3: things that happened after the November twenty twenty election when 426 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 3: Trump loses, Kyle Chapman, a member of the Proud Boys, 427 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: essentially tries to distance himself and the Prod Boys from 428 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 3: Edriguetarrio and make the case that actually, really the Prid 429 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 3: Boys are all about white race. Know that someone like 430 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 3: in Rigaettarrio and Afro Cuban has no place in belonging 431 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: in a place like the prod Boys and that sort 432 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: of scene of these far right figures at one point 433 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 3: figuring out who they are. That happens time and time 434 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 3: and time again. When I ask some of the January 435 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 3: sixth insurrectionists that I met, the Latino ones, what drove 436 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 3: you to the Capitol. One of the things they told 437 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 3: me was this idea that the capital in the United States, 438 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 3: under the lead of someone like Joe Biden, would be 439 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 3: taken over by communism. That leads me to the topic 440 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 3: of miss and disinformation no, particularly among Spanish language media. 441 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 3: And I know, Madia, that you just recently got back 442 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 3: from reporting on the ground when you really really sort 443 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: of zoomed into the wild ecosystem that is Spanish language 444 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 3: fake news, and every time that looks so different. But 445 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 3: what did you find now? 446 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: So I have been obsessed with this issue for a while. 447 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: I really wish that the Democratic Party had been obsessed 448 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: with this issue because if they would have understood how 449 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: specifically in Spanish and writ large, all Latinos are being 450 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: targeted with miss and disinformation and the reason why is 451 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: because we don't have the basic news literacy skills. So 452 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: in a news literacy you understand that if you see something, 453 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: you have to triple source it, and people don't know that, 454 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: and so they have one source, and the source is youtobe, 455 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: WhatsApp or frighteningly for me, after having spent some time 456 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: in South Florida Spanish language AM radio, it was really 457 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: strange about I have to tell you, it's just like 458 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: driving around South Florida and listening to the Spanish language radio. 459 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: I thought I was listening to Cuban radio, and then 460 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: I thought I was listening to Venezuela news, and it 461 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: was like the country's a mess. The United States is 462 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: a mess, the economy is a mess. Immigrants are a 463 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: disaster for our economy. Donald Trump has all the answers 464 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: and he's being blocked from doing that. And the fear right, 465 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: the fear factor of what's going to happen when Kamala Harris, 466 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: the socialist takes over. 467 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 5: Because she's a truly radical left lunatic. With four more 468 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 5: years of Commonly, your finances will never recover, they will only. 469 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: Get Dear listener, welcome to La mentiro Da so Itt 470 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: has teamed up with fact check Jado, which is an 471 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: organization that is combating the lies that go viral in Spanish, 472 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: and we're doing this to give you more information to 473 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: combat miss and disinformation in this election season. So on 474 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: this segment of La Maniota, which means the Big Lie 475 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: in Spanish, we are fact checking a piece of misinformation 476 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: that has been circulated widely in Spanish and it is 477 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,959 Speaker 1: this Donald Trump's assertion that Kamala Harris is a communist, 478 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: is a socialist, which is a tactic that weaponizes the 479 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: fear of communism that runs deep in families across Latin America. Now, 480 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: our partners at fact chick Uiado have investigated this viral 481 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: piece of misinformation, which by the way, has circulated with 482 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: a fabricated image of Kamala with like the communist hat 483 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: with the red hammer and sickle on it, dressed like 484 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: a communist. Anyway, they have investigated it and they have 485 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: debunked it, reporting that no, the Harris campaign and Kamala 486 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: Harris does not have any policy proposals that are linked 487 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: to communism. And I would add she has never been 488 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: a member of the Communist Party or the Socialist Party. 489 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: So now that's your fact cha Cuado. We're moving to 490 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: the last segment of it. So Paula as we wrap up. 491 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: As you know, we always talk about joy. So in 492 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: the end of your book, you end by writing about 493 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: our community's collective power, and you wrote, as for me, 494 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: I am convinced as I have ever been, that as Latinos, 495 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: we have an opportunity to harness our collective power and 496 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: reimagine a future that bears no resemblance to any past 497 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: we've been subjected to on either side of the border. 498 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: To do that, we must not be scared to face ourselves. 499 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: Only then can we turn our stories of defection into 500 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: a story of unprecedented unity. You also, Baola, you talk 501 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: about your own journey coming out. You tell a story 502 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: about this moment in the crowd of a packed Philadelphia 503 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: theater listening to the evangelical pastor Samuel Rodriguez was preaching 504 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: about the darkness of sins, in which he included abortion 505 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: and sexual confusion. You write in your book, I didn't 506 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: feel like I could fully be myself. I could feel 507 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: the weight of people's discomforts on my shoulders, my body 508 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: slowly tends up. It reminded me of the way I 509 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: had felt for many years throughout my youth, publicly tiptoeing 510 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: around the gender and sexual norms that governed my vironment 511 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: back then. I held hands with lovers, but always undercover. 512 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: I kissed with passion, but always in darkness. I spoke 513 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: of my story as a lesbian Latina, but always in 514 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: a whisper. And you say that in that moment in there, 515 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: you close your eyes, you grounded yourself in a memory 516 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: that makes you feel free. I love this watching the 517 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: bravery of Luna Carr, who is a Latina drag queen, 518 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: as she performed in McCallen, Texas on the Border, a 519 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: performance that she did in the face of a rising 520 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: surge of anti trans hate across the country, specifically in 521 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: the Border area, and despite the immense personal difficulty that 522 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: she had overcome to come out and later transition and 523 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: to continue to perform in a place like McCallen, Texas. So, Paula, yeah, 524 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: you and I are scared. We're on pins and needles. Okay, girl, 525 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: give me something to hold on to when we're talking 526 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: about our collective power. 527 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: Now, I think of my younger self. No, and this 528 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 3: is something that I thought a lot about when I 529 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: was writing this book. It taught me a lot about 530 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 3: myself back then. Now I understood through this process, why 531 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 3: I was living in such a privileged bubble where I 532 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 3: believe that all sort of Latinos look like me, you know, 533 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 3: like light skinned Latinos. I understood why I had such 534 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 3: shame about coming out, why it took me so long 535 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 3: to come out to my Mexican family. What I wish 536 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: back then is that I was sort of hand in 537 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 3: hand with the youth of today. Now, because the youth 538 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 3: of today, that the Latino youth of today, is a 539 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 3: voting block and is a beautiful group that is not 540 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 3: scared at all not to sort of have those conversations now, 541 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 3: not ten years from now. And they're not scared at 542 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: all to sort of lean into their freedoms and their 543 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 3: diversities and what makes them different. And they're not scared 544 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 3: to hold the Democratic Party more accountable. They're not scared. 545 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 3: They're just not scared. And so that gives me a 546 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 3: lot of hope, this idea that when we are facing 547 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 3: a Latino voting block like the one that we discussed today, 548 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 3: not to the right, I do see something that scares me, 549 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 3: which is this potent right wordshift. But when I look 550 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 3: to the center, when I look to the left, when 551 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: I look somewhere in between. I see the rise of 552 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: an iteration of us that is beautiful and that is brave, 553 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 3: and that gives. 554 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: Me a lot of hope. Obay you Maria. 555 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: What's giving me hope these days are my students, My 556 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: students where I'm a professor at my alma mater at 557 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: Barnard College, You're alma mater. It is my students, many 558 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: of whom are first gen and who are committed to 559 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: all the beauty of our people right and committed to 560 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: having these conversations with their family members. And they say 561 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: to me, Okay, well, I've never talked to my parents 562 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: about this, but I think I can now and that 563 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: they feel strong enough to do this. That gives me 564 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: so much hope. Fam that's it for today. Thank you 565 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,239 Speaker 1: so much to my co Hostamos and Paula. Congratulations on 566 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: your book. Defectors and you see that is and. 567 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: Lass with my mark. 568 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: In The Fixed pop up season is supported in part 569 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: by the Hispanic Federation and Futuro Media's Friends of Democracy Fund, which, 570 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: by the way, you can joined by becoming a donor. 571 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: Fund sustainers include Dipadonde, April Gasler, and carmin Rita Wong. 572 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: Fund Legacy one hundred. Supporters include Mark Lindsay and Andy Barks. 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