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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the so called Girl and

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Speaker 1: the Polaroid. There is a bombshell in the search for

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Speaker 1: the polaroid girl who vanishes on her mom's huffy bike.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Tara Calico a bright, energetic, nineteen year old college sophomore

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Speaker 2: studying psychology in Berlin, New Mexico, known for her love

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Speaker 2: of life in active campus involvement. With a promising future ahead,

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Speaker 2: everything changes.

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Speaker 1: Everyone saw Tara go that day on a thirty four

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Speaker 1: mile round trip bike ride, and it was in an

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Speaker 1: area that was believed to be very low crime. People

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Speaker 1: moved there because their children could play outdoors until it

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Speaker 1: was time for supper. What happened. Let's start at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: A sophomore at University of New Mexico, Tara is in

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Speaker 2: school full time while working at a bank. Nin September twentieth,

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Speaker 2: Tara takes her mom's pink coffee for her daily bike ride,

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Speaker 2: telling mom she is playing tennis with her boyfriend later,

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Speaker 2: so home by noon.

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Speaker 3: She worked at the bank. She went to school full time,

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Speaker 3: so she was a very structured young lady. All we've

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Speaker 3: had her time scheduled out ahead of time. Very sweet girl, too,

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Speaker 3: very sweet, a good friend. Everybody loved her. Everyone thought

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Speaker 3: she was so beautiful and you know, very popular.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. All of that matters. Everything you just heard structured,

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Speaker 1: always had a plan. You know, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that just fly by the seat of their pants.

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Speaker 1: They're like a frog that jumps from one lily pad

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Speaker 1: to the next, never really knowing where they're headed. But

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Speaker 1: not Tara. No, she was very organized, very well thought out.

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Speaker 1: That was just her nature. That matters. Straight out to

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonne and joining me, Director Cole Case Foundation, former

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. He's worked over three hundred homicides during his

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Speaker 1: le law enforcement career. You can find him where I

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Speaker 1: found him on the Interview Room to start the Interview

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Speaker 1: Room on YouTube. Chris, it matters because when someone has

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Speaker 1: a structured personality, when they say I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: on my bike ride mom, that's where they're going. They're

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Speaker 1: not going to suddenly go, hey, I'm going to jump

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Speaker 1: in the pickup and I'm going to go I don't know,

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Speaker 1: to the grocery store to fill in the blank, because

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Speaker 1: that would change the complexion of this search. Very structured.

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Speaker 1: She's always where she says she's going to be, and

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Speaker 1: she had a plan for after riding the bike, She's

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Speaker 1: going to go play tennis.

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Speaker 4: Remember, Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. And that structure is key to

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Speaker 4: beginning this investigation.

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Speaker 5: When it started.

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Speaker 4: And the reason for that is that's what they call

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Speaker 4: a pattern of life, meaning if this individual, to your point,

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Speaker 4: is just kind of scattered in many directions, that opens

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Speaker 4: up a lot of other lanes of investigative possibilities. But

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Speaker 4: in this case, it sounded and looks very clear this

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Speaker 4: girl had her act together with me.

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Speaker 1: Melinda Escabel, a longtime friend of Tara Callico's, knows her

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Speaker 1: even back to childhood, and she's the host of a

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Speaker 1: hit podcast, Vanished, the Tarah Calico Investigation. She's still looking

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Speaker 1: for her childhood friend Tara. Was Tara's personality like that

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Speaker 1: even as a child, Yes, she.

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Speaker 5: Was from the beginning. You know, she was very organized,

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Speaker 5: very structured. You know, she had a good relationship with

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Speaker 5: her mother. You know, if she said she was going

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Speaker 5: to be somewhere, that's exactly where she was going to be.

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Speaker 1: You know, all of the psychologists and psychiatrist Dotor John

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Speaker 1: Delatori joining me licensed psychologist and mediator. Doctor Delatory say

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Speaker 1: in this came from Freud. I believe that once you're

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Speaker 1: four years old, it's done. Your personality is set and

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Speaker 1: it may not change, will likely not change. Do you

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Speaker 1: agree with that for.

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Speaker 6: The most part, You know, I think a lot of

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Speaker 6: parents can see what their child's personality is going to

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Speaker 6: be even from the moment that they're born. So it's

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Speaker 6: not you can get a sense of what kind of

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Speaker 6: person is going to what kind of person a person

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Speaker 6: is going to be from a very early age. Personality

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Speaker 6: characteristics don't really change. Behaviors change, but it sounds like

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Speaker 6: she was very structured and she likes things to go

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Speaker 6: a certain way, and that actually creates a vulnerability.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 6: The more you stay the same, the more likely someone

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Speaker 6: else who has nefarious purposes can find out what you're

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Speaker 6: doing and when you're doing it.

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Speaker 7: Bilenn is a small town of about seven thousand people

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Speaker 7: thirty five miles south of Albuquerque. Dara grows up very active,

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Speaker 7: from cheerleading to softball, the marching. During physical therapy to

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Speaker 7: overcome a car accident, Tara becomes even more fitness focused,

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Speaker 7: riding a bike on a thirty four mile round trip

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Speaker 7: every day she.

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Speaker 3: Had gone to either it was either homecoming or prom

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Speaker 3: I don't remember which one. But her date had been

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Speaker 3: drinking and there was an accident and she was injured.

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Speaker 3: That was kind of the beginning of this physical fitness

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Speaker 3: craze that she adopted. And you know, she was very

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Speaker 3: conscious of her body. She was an exercise fanatic. And

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Speaker 3: you know, after she would go bike riding, then she

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Speaker 3: would go running, or then she would go play tennis.

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Speaker 3: So she was very physically fit.

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Speaker 1: That's Melinda speaking on her hit podcast, Vanished Melinda is

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Speaker 1: with us, Melinda Escabell face for being with us tonight, Melinda,

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Speaker 1: this is an uphill challenge. We hear there's a breakthrough

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Speaker 1: in the case, and I think that there is, and

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Speaker 1: what I don't understand is why authorities are not active

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Speaker 1: on it. But I want to circle back to the

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Speaker 1: fact that many people call her a fitness fanatic. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that I would call it that. She went

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Speaker 1: through a traumatic experience, a major car crash because her

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Speaker 1: date was drinking and driving through no fault of her own,

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Speaker 1: and she ended up having to claw her way back,

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Speaker 1: claw her way back to physical fitness could you describe

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Speaker 1: what happened.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the vehicle flipped, I believe, off the road and

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Speaker 5: she hurt her the back of her neck, the spine

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Speaker 5: area and so and she has a shit a scar

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Speaker 5: back there from her surgery. And so she had to

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Speaker 5: be put into physical therapy. And when she started physical therapy,

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Speaker 5: she really enjoyed it and it kind of, you know,

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Speaker 5: jump started what they called the physical fitness Cravens. She

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Speaker 5: became very conscious of healing and becoming strong and you know,

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Speaker 5: like you said, kleining her way back and she was,

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Speaker 5: you know, very conscious of it all and decided that,

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Speaker 5: you know, she really wanted to be physically active, and

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Speaker 5: so she would she would ride, she would go on

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Speaker 5: a twenty you know, twenty four mile bike ride. Then

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Speaker 5: she would go jogging, Then she would go play tennis.

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Speaker 5: Then she would go to school, and then she would

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Speaker 5: go to work. You know, she was a very busy individual.

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Speaker 1: You know, Melinda. A lot has been made of her

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Speaker 1: job at the bank. Because you're either inside the bank

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Speaker 1: branch or you are at the teller window where people

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Speaker 1: drive through they see you. You don't necessarily pay attention

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Speaker 1: to every customer that comes through the bank. And she

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Speaker 1: came in contact with a lot of guys and just

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Speaker 1: you know, Chris mcdonna, hold on, let me throw this

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Speaker 1: to you. Let's just get real about what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: She was not kidnapped by a woman. Statistically, it's virtually impossible.

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Speaker 1: We're looking for either one or more males. Would you agree, statistically.

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Speaker 4: Yes, statistically one percent. And one of the interesting things

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Speaker 4: about this particular case is one of those characters that

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Speaker 4: would come to the top is a guy named David

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Speaker 4: Parker Ray. He's one of the most sadistic serial killers

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Speaker 4: that ever existed of the United States, and he had

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Speaker 4: a ranch nearby.

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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, you're just full chock full of information. Would

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Speaker 1: you say that again, because that's an angle I have

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Speaker 1: not explored, and I'll circle back to the bank. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about him.

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Speaker 4: So, David Parker Ray actually was known as the toy

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Speaker 4: Box Killer. And what he did is he set up

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Speaker 4: a torture room where he would kidnap women and bring

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Speaker 4: them in there and hold them for much And so

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Speaker 4: in this particular investigation, because he was so close, I

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Speaker 4: would submit that the FBI was probably chasing him down

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Speaker 4: pretty clearly.

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Speaker 1: You know, Chrismally Donna. You and I have been on

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Speaker 1: a lot of murder investigations, with a lot of kidnapped investigations,

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Speaker 1: and it's like remember Dorothy and Wizard of Oz and

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Speaker 1: she's trying to figure out which path to take. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: there are so many avenues it can be overwhelming. But

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Speaker 1: that's that's a give me right there to check out.

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Speaker 1: David Parker Ray, I was going to talk about the

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Speaker 1: weirdos that come in and out of banks, all right.

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Speaker 1: I remember in law school I worked at a sandwich

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Speaker 1: shop and we had customers that come in, and we

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Speaker 1: had customers that would come through a drive through. I

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Speaker 1: don't remember any of their faces at the time. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about, you know, my next law school assignment,

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Speaker 1: and just trying to make sandwiches as fast as I could.

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Speaker 1: But they would know all of our names, everybody that

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Speaker 1: worked there, and know things about us. I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: about people going through that drive through teller all day

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Speaker 1: along and looking at her. You know, that can be

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Speaker 1: a very dangerous situation when you're talking about stalkers. You

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Speaker 1: may not even know you've got a stalker.

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Speaker 4: Oh one thousand percent, Nancy, And think about this, right

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Speaker 4: if if let's say he's in play, not saying he is, okay,

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Speaker 4: but you not only have the locals that you have

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Speaker 4: to look at, but now you have this you know

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Speaker 4: individual that subsequently, you know, turns out to be one

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Speaker 4: of the most clorific serial killers in the country. And

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Speaker 4: so you got two tracks going in the investigation, a

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Speaker 4: local track and of course this national track if that

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Speaker 4: guy was in play. So to your point, yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: very dangerous.

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Speaker 3: He worked, They had a basement and where they were accounting.

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Speaker 7: Me.

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Speaker 3: I know she would deliver money to the different branches.

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Speaker 3: I think she had like several jobs over there, but

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Speaker 3: I they had you know, she would get promoted or whatever.

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Speaker 3: So I think she like started count in doing some

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Speaker 3: kind of counting in the base, and then they moved

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Speaker 3: her to delivery and cash to the different branches. So

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Speaker 3: there was interaction with other people at like at least

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Speaker 3: two or three different branches within the Valencia County area.

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, We know the FBI is now in on

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Speaker 1: the investigation, but she's not just at one branch. She

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Speaker 1: goes to multiple branches with multiple drive throughs.

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Speaker 7: Jeez. Obviously the FBI got involved because of the fact

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Speaker 7: that it is so spread out, Nancy, it is not

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Speaker 7: just a cut and dry simple She went and did

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Speaker 7: one thing and that's all they had to figure out.

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Speaker 7: We're talking about somebody who was seen all throughout the community,

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Speaker 7: and by the way, somebody who grew up there that

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Speaker 7: everybody knows. You've got a town of Savath people. Everybody

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Speaker 7: knows everybody, They know everybody's business, and they know she's

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Speaker 7: got cash and she's going from one place to the other.

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Speaker 7: So she is seen by countless people from every walk

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Speaker 7: of life on a daily basis.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking about that aspect. But what we do

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Speaker 1: know is she went on that long track on her

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Speaker 1: mom's pink huffy bike. She says, Mom, I'll be back

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Speaker 1: at twelve, and really, in prophetic word, she says, Hey,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not back by twelve, come looking for me.

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Speaker 8: When Tara isn't back at twelve oh five, mother Patty

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Speaker 8: gets in her car to retrace Tara's bike route, expecting

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Speaker 8: to see Tara with her bike. Driving out to train

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Speaker 8: tracks where Tara normally turns around, Patty doesn't see Tara

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Speaker 8: and assumes she missed her and heads back home.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand, she had a regular trek and

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Speaker 1: I write about that in my book, Don't be a

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Speaker 1: Victim Yet I still do it. It just must be habit.

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Speaker 1: She always took the same route Melinda Escabel's Star of

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Speaker 1: a Vanish the Tara Calico Investigation podcast. Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Her track was always this long ride and then she'd

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Speaker 1: get to train tracks and turn around and come back. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: she used to.

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Speaker 5: She was the creature of a habit. So she would

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Speaker 5: go out on this seventeen mile bike, right out to

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Speaker 5: the train tracks and back. And she didn't. I don't

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Speaker 5: think she realized right away that she was being tracked

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Speaker 5: and followed, you know, and then you know, she was always,

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Speaker 5: you know, creature of habit. They saw her route, they

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Speaker 5: watched it, they knew where to find her. It was,

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Speaker 5: you know, it's all the things that you talk about

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Speaker 5: that we're not supposed to do. We didn't realize how

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Speaker 5: dangerous things were.

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Speaker 1: John Day is joining me, veteran criminal defense attorney at

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Speaker 1: John Day Law. John, thanks for being with us. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the bike. The bike was recovered, what forensic

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Speaker 1: evidence could have been obtained from the bike.

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Speaker 9: Law enforcement could have gotten DNA from the bike if

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Speaker 9: we had that technology, law enforcement could have gotten any

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Speaker 9: kind of samples. If there had been some kind of

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Speaker 9: a collision, that would have been something we would have seen.

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Speaker 9: But there's no evidence at that point that there was

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Speaker 9: anything like that. So we're looking at before DNA technology

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Speaker 9: had advanced. Now, of course we can use it if

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Speaker 9: there's anything available, but there didn't seem to be. So

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Speaker 9: we have a bike. It's a clue, but it's a

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Speaker 9: clue that doesn't get us anywhere in this investigation because

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Speaker 9: there's nothing on the bike, at least at the time

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Speaker 9: that's recoverable and traceable.

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Speaker 1: Well, another issue, John Day, is how the bike has

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Speaker 1: been stored since it was recovered. If it has been

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Speaker 1: handled by a lot of people's probably destroyed any DNA evidence.

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Speaker 1: But if the evidence is not destroyed, that can still

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Speaker 1: be obtained off the bike. I don't care how many

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Speaker 1: weeks or months have passed, she goes missing, it can

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Speaker 1: still be obtained. DNA evidence doesn't just go away unless

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Speaker 1: it's removed.

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Speaker 9: So many cases, so many cold cases, are solved by

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Speaker 9: going back in time getting the evidence if it's been

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Speaker 9: stored properly, doing the analysis. We know that's possible in

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Speaker 9: this case, though we don't have any sense of how

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Speaker 9: it was stored, and you're exactly right. If this is

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Speaker 9: sorted sort of haphazardly, there's nothing that can be done.

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Speaker 9: Nobody anticipated the developments in DNA. Nobody could predict the future,

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Speaker 9: and so anything that was on that pink coffee bike

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Speaker 9: is probably lost to time.

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Speaker 1: You know, John Day, I may have told you this

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Speaker 1: story before, a true story regarding trying to put together

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Speaker 1: a case in law school. There was a murder and

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Speaker 1: an ag assault in Atlanta. I got through law school.

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Speaker 1: I was a judicial law clerk then was in and

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Speaker 1: I trust. I finally made it to the DA's office

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Speaker 1: and I got called down to put together the case.

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Speaker 1: It had been reversed, went all the way up to

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Speaker 1: the eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals, one step below the

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Speaker 1: US Supreme Court, got reversed interlocking statements. Anyway, I go

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Speaker 1: to the I had never heard of it. I go

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Speaker 1: to the property room, the evidence room. Guess what was left?

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Speaker 1: One X ray which meant nothing to me. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even know what it was, and a baseball hat that

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Speaker 1: said kiss my bass. I'm like, how does that fit

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Speaker 1: in anywhere? Well, it later became apparent, but that was

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Speaker 1: all the evidence left due to the way the storage

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Speaker 1: room had been handled. It had been moved a couple

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Speaker 1: of times. Evidence was actually lost through no one's nefarious intent.

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Speaker 1: But it happened, and it happens a lot. We always

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Speaker 1: hear about evidence being lost. Evidence was lost in the

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Speaker 1: Seawn Combs case. There was a bombing of a car

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Speaker 1: bomb a molotov of kid Cuddy's car. Guess what The

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Speaker 1: fingerprints were lost within the LAPD I mean in a

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Speaker 1: high profile case. Lost. Now, as I was saying, very

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Speaker 1: often there is no nefarious intent, well sometimes there is.

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Speaker 1: That said, what you're saying does not bode well about

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Speaker 1: getting any evidence off that Huffy bike and John Day.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Okay, let's move forward. Listen.

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Speaker 7: Patti calls Tara's boyfriend, who says he hasn't seen Tara,

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Speaker 7: then calls police in a panic. Police begin in a

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Speaker 7: media's search as her disappearance is out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 7: Sister Michelle joins the search with Tara's friends and boyfriend.

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Speaker 7: A storm coming, temperature dropping, friends walking two feet apart,

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Speaker 7: hand in hand, across both sides of the road, looking

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Speaker 7: for any sign of Tara.

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Speaker 1: When you don't get anything, with a shoulder to shoulder search.

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Speaker 1: You're in trouble. Back to Melinda Escabel star avanis the

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Speaker 1: Terra Callico investigation boyfriend. Okay, all sorts of alarm bells

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Speaker 1: go off. Tell me about the boyfriend. Wasn't she supposed

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Speaker 1: to play tennis with him after the bike ride?

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Speaker 5: Correct, she was supposed to play with tennis with him,

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Speaker 5: I think at twelve thirty. So she was expected back

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Speaker 5: home at noon. And when she didn't get back at noon,

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Speaker 5: Patty went looking for her because on the previous day

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Speaker 5: she had a flat tire and they were concerned that

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Speaker 5: maybe her tire might be flat if she didn't make

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Speaker 5: it back by noon, because she had this appointment with

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Speaker 5: her boyfriend at twelve thirty. And sure enough, you know,

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Speaker 5: she didn't make it back.

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Speaker 1: So the mom retraces the daughter's steps. She drives all

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Speaker 1: the way to the train tracks where Tara normally turns around,

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Speaker 1: doesn't see her, and mom assumes, well, I missed her,

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Speaker 1: and she goes back home. Then she starts contacting the boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: The boyfriend had not seen or heard from her. Mom

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Speaker 1: calls police in a panic, but then two and a

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Speaker 1: half miles down the search route.

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Speaker 7: Evidence about two and a half miles down the search route,

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Speaker 7: some tire tracks that look spun out are discovered on

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Speaker 7: the side of the road. It looks like there was

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Speaker 7: a scuffle and the bike marks are visible amongst the

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Speaker 7: tire marks from the vehicle. Tara is known to use

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Speaker 7: a distinctive bright yellow walkman on her bike ride, and

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Speaker 7: when a broken piece of a bright yellow walkman is

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Speaker 7: found in the area of the tire marks, her sister

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Speaker 7: Michelle believes it is Tara leaving a trail to follow.

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Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: One morning, Tara set out for a routine bike ride,

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Speaker 2: but that day is different. As she borrows her mother's bike,

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Speaker 2: she casually tells her call the police if I'm not

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Speaker 2: back soon. Little did they know it would be the

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Speaker 2: last time anyone saw her. Tara never returned home.

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Speaker 1: Two. John Day joining us and he's joining us tonight

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Speaker 1: because he's a veteran trial lawyer. He is a criminal

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Speaker 1: defense turny. True, He's tried a lot of cases and

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Speaker 1: one a lot of cases at John Daylaw dot Com.

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Speaker 1: John that would be very hesitant to introduce something like

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Speaker 1: that into court because hunches or something that's a little

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Speaker 1: bit prophetic can be attacked by the defense, and you

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Speaker 1: don't want to introduce anything that can be attacked because

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Speaker 1: it could then taint your solid evidence. But I believe

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Speaker 1: in hunches. I believe in gut instincts, and I think

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Speaker 1: that they are developed over thousands and thousands of years

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Speaker 1: of evolution. It was very interesting that when she leaves,

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Speaker 1: she says, hey, mom, if I'm not home by name,

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Speaker 1: come and look for me and lo and behold. You know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours later, the mom is out searching

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Speaker 1: for Tara.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, it's significant. Is that Is this something

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Speaker 9: that she said to her mom every time she left?

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Speaker 9: Or was this a singular, unique moment when she had,

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Speaker 9: as you said, some hunches. You know, we all know

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Speaker 9: to trust your instincts. And was this a moment when

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Speaker 9: she thought, I better tell me this to my mom,

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Speaker 9: or is this something that she said every single time

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Speaker 9: she left it was sort of their routine. Significant because

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Speaker 9: if that indicated that she had some foreshadowing, that there

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Speaker 9: was some reason to be concerned, it wasn't enough to

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Speaker 9: stop her from the bike ride.

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Speaker 7: Though.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting that you brought that up,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's right. I think you're right, John

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Speaker 1: Day to Melinda Escabelle. Melinda, you are friends with Tara,

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Speaker 1: you know her. I mean, in my world, whenever anybody

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Speaker 1: walks out the door, I say, if you're not Hume

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Speaker 1: by six pm, I'm calling police. I mean, that's just

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Speaker 1: a given, and I always say it, and it's true.

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Speaker 1: But I don't get the sense that Tara and her

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Speaker 1: mom were like that. I mean, is that prophetic? Was

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Speaker 1: she worried about anything when she left that day? If

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Speaker 1: I'm not home, come look for me.

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Speaker 5: Well, it was because the previous day she had went

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Speaker 5: out on a bike ride and her tire went flat,

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Speaker 5: and I think her and Michelle walked home seven miles

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Speaker 5: and so you always you know, Also, please remember that

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Speaker 5: her life was very structured, so she was on a

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Speaker 5: schedule for work, for school, you know, time with her

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Speaker 5: boyfriend and doing different things. So as a structured person,

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Speaker 5: she said I would be home at this time, you know.

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Speaker 5: But I think specifically that day it was due to

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Speaker 5: the fact that they were having issues with the tire

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Speaker 5: on her bike.

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Speaker 1: So there was a reason, got it. You cleared that

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Speaker 1: up for me. He answered a lot of questions just then.

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Speaker 1: So there's nothing to suggest she thought she was being stacked,

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Speaker 1: or that anybody had been following her or threatening her

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Speaker 1: all because of a tire the day before. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's move what.

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Speaker 5: So there was an incident, so Tara wasn't worried about whether,

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Speaker 5: you know, something was going to happen to her. But

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Speaker 5: there was an incident previously while her mom went on

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Speaker 5: the bike ride with her, and they were followed by

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Speaker 5: a van, and so that, you know, made Patty stop writing.

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Speaker 5: She just didn't feel comfortable. But Tara said she wasn't

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Speaker 5: going to live in fear, so she didn't think anything

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Speaker 5: of it, and she wasn't worried about it. And so,

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Speaker 5: you know, Patty knew that there were potential dangers, but

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Speaker 5: you know, Tara lived her life like she wasn't going

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Speaker 5: to live in fear. She wasn't going to be worried,

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Speaker 5: and she wasn't concerned.

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Speaker 1: So let me understand something. Dave Matt with US Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. About two and a half miles down

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Speaker 1: the search route, there are tracks that looked spun out

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Speaker 1: and on the side of the road it quote looked

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Speaker 1: like there was a scuffle and there are bike marks

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Speaker 1: visible among tire marks from a vehicle we know that

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Speaker 1: Tara used one of those bright neon yellow walkmans, and

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Speaker 1: there was a piece of broken bright yellow plastic found

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Speaker 1: in that area where there were tire marks. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to determine how you can look down at the dirt

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Speaker 1: and look at the asphalt and tell me that there

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Speaker 1: had been a bike and vehicle scuffle and what does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 7: Okay, well, Nancy, think about this way. You've got people

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Speaker 7: looking for Tara's bike or her anything they can find,

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Speaker 7: and they're walking, as we mentioned, they're walking, you know,

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Speaker 7: elbow to elbow. You're looking at the pavement and then

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Speaker 7: into the dirt. And in the dirt right there you

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Speaker 7: can see tire marks going to be what six eight

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Speaker 7: inches wide, but a bike is going to be an

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Speaker 7: inch and a half at the most. So you're going

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Speaker 7: to be able to see tire tracks. And you would

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Speaker 7: expect tire tracks on the shoulder just to be moving

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Speaker 7: one way. You would not expect to see tire tracks

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Speaker 7: going side to side, and then you certainly wouldn't expect

434
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 7: to see a bicycle tire also in that same area.

435
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 7: That's what that's the point that you can actually see

436
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 7: the difference in the size of the tires, and you

437
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 7: can see that there's something going on. It's not just

438
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 7: simple travel where you're having to fix a flat. You've

439
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 7: got tires that are making multiple marks in the same

440
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 7: same area as you mentioned. You mentioned the bright yellow walkman,

441
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 7: and I find this really really important, not just the

442
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 7: fact that there was a piece of yellow walkman sitting there,

443
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 7: but think about this. She's riding and she's focused on

444
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 7: the ride, she's thinking about things, she's listening to music

445
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 7: on the walkman, she's not thinking about anything else. She's

446
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 7: looking straight ahead and she's got the music punk, so

447
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 7: she's not even going to be totally aware of what

448
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 7: may be behind her. Nancy. So when you see this

449
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 7: area off the side of the road where all of

450
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 7: a sudden you've got tire tracks going kind of crazy,

451
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 7: a little wonky between the thin bike track and the thicker,

452
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 7: the wider car track, Yes, you could see something took

453
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 7: place in this one spot.

454
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: You know, Chris McDonough, did you see the photos we're

455
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: showing everyone right now, The vast nature of the terrain

456
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: around where Tara disappeared. I mean, it goes on and

457
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: on and on. We're showing you pictures of the area

458
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: from where she disappeared. Look at that. Imagine being told, okay,

459
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: you got to search this. You'd have to use overhead helicopters,

460
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: you'd have to use cadaver dogs, scent tracking dogs, the works.

461
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, Yeah, Nancy.

462
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: And this would also tell us, in what you're talking

463
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 4: about as a geographical profile, right, what's theronment situation and

464
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 4: the circumstance look like. And you would measure that against

465
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 4: what they call a victim continuum. What that means is this,

466
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 4: if the victim is at a high risk, there is

467
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 4: a higher probability this was a situation of opportunity for

468
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 4: the offender. So then you look at the environment and

469
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: you say, okay, was the offender comfortable in this particular environment?

470
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 4: And if you look at the terrain that you're showing here,

471
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 4: the answer would be absolutely yes. This offender knows that area.

472
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 4: And so you have to then reverse engineer that and go, hey,

473
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 4: wait a minute, why does this offender know this area

474
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: and is he nearby or is this a random situation?

475
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: And the answer would be it's probably not random.

476
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 8: You know.

477
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: In another issue, Chris mcdonna, if she was struck, let's

478
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: say my vehicle and animals came and took her body.

479
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: We would know that cadaver dogs would find her immediately.

480
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: Scent dogs would find her and at least try to

481
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: follow her trail, you know, and the Lacy Peterson murder

482
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: where Scott Peterson murdered her in their unborn child. Connor

483
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: scent dog, a scent dog tracked her from her home

484
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: on Cavina and Modesto all the way to that San

485
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: Francisco Marina, and she was in a vehicle and the

486
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: dog could fall it. Okay, So what I'm saying is

487
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: if that had happened, a dog would have picked up

488
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: on it. It tells me she was put in a

489
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: vehicle and taken away.

490
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, to both of those points, the dogs would

491
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 4: have at least picked up some type of scent. And

492
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: so then you have to go back to your second

493
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 4: thought there, Nancy, is if she was hit by a

494
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: car and the bike doesn't have any indication of any

495
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 4: type of damage or anything like that, the big question

496
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 4: is if a a car, is it a truck? What

497
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 4: kind of vehicle is it that could get that bike

498
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: out of the area. So I'd be real curious where

499
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 4: they found the bicycle.

500
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: Well, you were hearing our guests say earlier that I

501
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: believe it was Dave matt or Chris mcdonnough talking about

502
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: how she Tara had her walkman, her bright yellow walkman,

503
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: which somehow was destroyed during whatever happened to Tara. Bits

504
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: of plastic were found that matched her bright yellow walkman.

505
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: She was listening. We even know what she was listening

506
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: to because of this.

507
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: A cassette tape of the band Boston is discovered three

508
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 2: miles from home on the side of Highway forty seven.

509
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: Tara's mother, Patty, identifies the tape, saying that is what

510
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: Tara was listening to on her bike ride. Two more

511
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: polaroids surface over the next years, featuring women in similar distress,

512
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 2: Though investigators can't confirm if these women were Tara. The

513
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 2: chilling photos raised more questions than answers, a possibility that

514
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: Tara may have been a did.

515
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: A polaroid photo emerges of Tara and a little boy

516
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: bound in the back of a van. Even Scotland Yard

517
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: says that's Tara, and then I witnesses emerge and it's

518
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: not good.

519
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 7: Several witnesses come forward describing a similar type of older

520
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 7: model Ford pickup truck following behind a girl riding her

521
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 7: bike on the same day and time Tara was riding.

522
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 7: The witnesses all said the truck was running half on

523
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 7: the road, half in the shoulder, ten miles per hour

524
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 7: and a fifty five miles per hour zone, following twenty

525
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 7: feet directly behind the bike rider, indicating whoever was operating

526
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 7: that Ford pickup truck was focused on doing something for

527
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 7: or with the girl on the bike.

528
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 3: She was on her way back home. She was about

529
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 3: a mile and a half from the house, and she

530
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: was last seen Christina Hill by the vineyards, and that's

531
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: where they saw her last. You know, these four hunters

532
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: who were riding into town. That's they looked. They had

533
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: pulled over to the side of the road to unload

534
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: their muzzle loading guns and they had actually passed Tara

535
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,719
Speaker 3: on the way previously.

536
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: They say that they saw Tara just at the crest

537
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: of the hill with this truck following closely behind her.

538
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: Melinda Escabel joining us star Off vanished the Tara Calico Investigation. Melinda,

539
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: that is so eerie. You've got this older model pickup

540
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: following right behind her, and she didn't know because she

541
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: was listening to Boston.

542
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, and what is strange is that multiple people had

543
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 5: saw her on the road and saw this truck following her,

544
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 5: but they had all convinced themselves that it was her

545
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 5: father following her to make sure she was safe.

546
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: Guys, Tara Kalico is missing. We've got an ID on

547
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: the vehicle. And coincidentally, fortuitously, hunters were there. You heard

548
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: about eight witnesses. Can they all be wrong? I don't

549
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: think so. Listen, why were the hunters there?

550
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: And they had tried to pull into a place to

551
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 3: unload the guns, but there was a truck there staring

552
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: at something ahead. They didn't know what it was, so

553
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 3: they he was kind of blocking the entrance, so they

554
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 3: pulled out instead of stopping. Their pulled out and went

555
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: down further to unload their guns. And they unloaded their guns,

556
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: and when they pulled back out, the driver looked back

557
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: and saw Tara crusting the hill, an old mid fifties

558
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: truck with two men in it, and they were staring

559
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: directly ahead. And when they passed Tara, the guys thought, oh,

560
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: that's probably what they were staring at. Maybe that's their daughter.

561
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: To you, Dave Mac Crime Stories investigative reporter, tell me

562
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: about the vehicle following right behind her with two mails

563
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: in the mill and the older model.

564
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 7: It's a nineteen fifty three Ford pickup truck, but it's

565
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 7: a light gray or maybe just off white in color.

566
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 7: But Nancy, on the back of it is a homemade shell.

567
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: You see it in the drawing.

568
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 7: But this is not something that they bought. This is

569
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 7: something that was made and is obviously not what you

570
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 7: would expect on the back of a nineteen fifty three

571
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 7: pickup truck, but it stood out following between ten and

572
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 7: twenty feet behind Tara, where again you pointed out, she's

573
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 7: listening to music. She doesn't know they're but they're close

574
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 7: enough that the hunters.

575
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 9: Actually gave it a pass.

576
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 7: I mean, we don't always think that this is the

577
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 7: worst thing that could happen. We think, oh, it's her

578
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 7: dad following her, you know, making sure she's okay. We

579
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 7: don't always think the worst.

580
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: And doctor John Delatory, with a psychologist specializing in forensic psychology,

581
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: Doctor Delatory, why do our minds function that way? Is

582
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: it because we don't want to think a violent crime

583
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: is about to have? Are we insulating ourselves from it?

584
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: We don't leap to the conclusion, Hey, those guys are

585
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: following her, they're going to kidnap her.

586
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 6: Well, it's because most of us don't have criminal thoughts, right.

587
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 6: The only reason why you would think, you know, there's

588
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 6: something nefarious is going to be happening, is because you've

589
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 6: either been involved in an nefarious act previously or you've

590
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 6: been the victim of a nefarious act previously. So our

591
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 6: instinct isn't to assume that a bad thing is going

592
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 6: to happen. I mean, you were talking about evolution earlier

593
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 6: in the show, and that's because we have to assume

594
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 6: that everyone around us has our same best interest the

595
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 6: way that we would have in someone else. So thinking

596
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 6: negatively is not going to be something that would be

597
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 6: appropriate to proliferate the species unless you think something bad

598
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 6: is going to happen. And unfortunately, because they weren't thinking

599
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 6: that way, it sounds like something bad ultimately happened that

600
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 6: could have been stopped.

601
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: And Chris McDonough joining us store on the interview room

602
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Also, people are fed the line over and

603
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: over stranger abduction that never happens, it does happen, So

604
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure at the beginning no one wanted to accept

605
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: this is a stranger on stranger abduction. The boyfriend was cleared.

606
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, Nancy, I mean, and this goes back to what

607
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: we were just talking about a little bit ago, right

608
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 4: that the hid risk area that she was at, it

609
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 4: puts her into that category of a victim of opportunity,

610
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 4: and when you have a predator, they're going to take

611
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: advantage of that and go for it.

612
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: To Melinda Escabelt, star of Vanish the Tar Calico investigation,

613
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: that number eight witnesses based on your work and investigation

614
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: has expanded to fourteen witnesses. What did they see?

615
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 5: The first thing that woman that was going to the

616
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 5: doctor saw in the morning when Tara was riding out.

617
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 5: They said that her face looked strained, and so I

618
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 5: they previous to her scene or when Tara turned onto

619
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: Highway forty seven or Highway six at the time, a

620
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 5: friend of hers that went to school with her saw

621
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 5: her turning and kind of waved it her and she

622
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 5: waved and they she turned. But when she was getting

623
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 5: ready to go, she had to slam on the brakes

624
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 5: because a truck was coming and it was moving at

625
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 5: a strange pace, like kind of slow and so that

626
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 5: was the first witness and then but I don't think

627
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 5: Tara was aware of what was going on. A little

628
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 5: further down, another witness saw her and they said that

629
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 5: her face looks strained. So we think that the stocking

630
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: had started, you know, right as she got into the

631
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 5: clearing where there's nothing out there. And then she went

632
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 5: and continued her ride out, and then on the way

633
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 5: back she was seen by more people, you know, coming

634
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 5: and that's when the they saw the truck behind hers,

635
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 5: following her and and everybody. It's just very strange that

636
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 5: everyone convinced themselves that that was her father. You know,

637
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 5: I think they were worried about it, and then somehow

638
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 5: in their mind they balanced it out, you know, like

639
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 5: we were going to stop, but you know, we just

640
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 5: decided it was her father. So there were people who

641
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 5: lived out there that had seen that bus.

642
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: Me a clue as to who the purp is. A

643
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: white male old enough to be Tara's father. We know

644
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: that the bike was found, We know that there were

645
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: skid marks that looked like a scuffle that was corroborated.

646
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: But now we find more was found and it's not good.

647
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 3: It was found between Mount Neer right outside of Mount Neir,

648
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: which is a little over sixty miles from Bolen And

649
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: there were also pieces of clothing like a bra, underwear

650
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 3: and a shoe.

651
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

652
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 2: After hours of searching, authorities were left with only one lead,

653
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 2: a white truck may have been following her. Then a

654
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: year later, a woman from Florida discovers a polaroid of

655
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: a young woman bound and gagged in a truck who

656
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 2: eerily resembles Tara.

657
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: Is that Tara in the photograph? According to her mother

658
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: and Scotland Yard.

659
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 8: It is a photograph surfaces in Florida of a boy

660
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 8: and a young woman, both facing the camera, their hands

661
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 8: tied behind their backs and tape over their mouths, in

662
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 8: the back of a van, lying down in distress.

663
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 7: The picture is a colored polaroid photo in good shape.

664
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 7: Patty believes the woman in the photo is her daughter Tara.

665
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 7: Another family in New mex believes the boy is nine

666
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 7: year old Michael Henley. He vanished while hunting with his father.

667
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 7: Headline circle the world with the photo. The photo itself

668
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 7: is analyzed at least three times by legitimate agencies, including

669
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 7: the FBI and Scotland Yard.

670
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: Melinda Escabel Star of vanis the Tara Callico Investigation podcast,

671
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: which is amazing. By the way, Melinda Scotland Yard says

672
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: this is her. Her mother says this is her. The

673
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: FBI says, yeah, we don't know, but you actually interviewed

674
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: the little boy in the photo. What happened? Correct?

675
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 5: So he had reached out to me a number of

676
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 5: years ago because he was looking into the photo kept

677
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 5: popping up and he wanted to see what was happening.

678
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 5: And he saw that I was working on an investigation

679
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 5: and docusaries on Tara, and so he asked if I

680
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: could in tear him because he was five at the time,

681
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 5: to see what he didn't know, what he knew, but

682
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 5: he wanted to see what I could pull out of

683
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 5: him in regards to any information that might be helpful

684
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 5: to Tara's case. So I went with my investigator, James Carston,

685
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 5: he is the man who trained me to be an investigator,

686
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 5: and we went and we interrogated him for a day

687
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 5: and we pulled out some information. But he didn't know

688
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 5: who the young lady was. But there there was a

689
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 5: lot of you know, nefarious activities going on that he

690
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 5: did tell us about. And but we weren't able to

691
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 5: necessarily connect it to Tara.

692
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I got a question. You said, he mentioned a

693
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: lot of nefarious activities.

694
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 5: What so he was put in a van by his

695
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 5: father and taken to Florida. He was held in a

696
00:40:54,719 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 5: house where there was there were girls that were videotaped

697
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 5: in those old VHS cameras, and then he said that

698
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 5: there were decks that they would put this thing in

699
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 5: and it would go into He didn't understand what he

700
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 5: was explaining to me, But I don't know if you

701
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 5: remember the internet. In the early days, in order to

702
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 5: have internet, there were these decks of networks that you

703
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 5: would plug into the phone the phone line, and what

704
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 5: he described was something similar to that. And he said

705
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 5: he even escaped the house, ran away, and the police

706
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 5: brought him back to the house. And he said that

707
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 5: he was upset because that's when he knew the police

708
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 5: were in on it, Melinda.

709
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: At first, a little boy named Michael Henley was believed

710
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 1: to be the child in the photo with who we

711
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 1: think is Tara Calico. But the boy in a photo

712
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: was not Michael. His remains have been found. Do you

713
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: believe correct the boy you interviewed was in the car,

714
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: was in the vehicle with Tara. Yes, I do.

715
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 5: And when we met with him, we took a lot

716
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 5: of photos of his face, his side view, his front view,

717
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 5: his back view, everything, And we have identified certain markings

718
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 5: that are so imperceptible here on this photo that align

719
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 5: with the photos of him as an adult.

720
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: What did he say became of the girl with him

721
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: in the vehicle?

722
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 5: He doesn't remember. He knows he remembers being tied up

723
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 5: with the thing on the tape, and he said that

724
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 5: when that photo was taken, he had just woken up

725
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 5: and he was shocked. He didn't know what was happening

726
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 5: and why they were taking a photo of him. But

727
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 5: he doesn't know what ultimately became of the girl because

728
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: he became separated from her.

729
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: Was the girl who we believed to be Tara ever

730
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 1: in that house, he described with him.

731
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 5: Yes, they were in the house together. And I believe

732
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 5: that the girl was seen later by authorities at a

733
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 5: market and they went up to her and looked at

734
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 5: her and decided that it was not Tara. They found

735
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 5: it like a farmer's market or some type of market.

736
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: Much has been made about the polaroid Melinda, based on

737
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: what you learn from the lab an los alamos. Do

738
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: you believe that's Tara? Correct?

739
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 5: I do not believe it's Tara. They did a whole

740
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 5: analysis on the young lady in the photo and came

741
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 5: to the determination that although it looks similar to Tara,

742
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 5: that it was not. They even state that the girl's

743
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 5: eyes are blue, and so you know that was their

744
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 5: conclusion in like I said, Tara, not Tara.

745
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: But in the last months, law enforcement claims they made

746
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 1: substantial progress and they're ready to make an arrest.

747
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 8: The investigation continues without success until the Sheriff's office issues

748
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 8: a press release in June twenty twenty three substantial progress

749
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 8: has been made, claiming they identified the offenders and are

750
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 8: seeking to charge and arrest the offenders.

751
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't understand. That was in twenty twenty three.

752
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: LA law enforcement says they've identified the offenders, Melenda, but

753
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: there's not an arrest. Correct.

754
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 5: So the the Sheriff's office turned over a case to

755
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 5: the district Attorney's office, and the district attorney's office then

756
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 5: has to do their due diligence. They had called me

757
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,280
Speaker 5: in to see what I had had in my files,

758
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 5: because you know, we had put an entire investigation together

759
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 5: along with data sets, and I started meeting with the

760
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 5: investigators and we started from what was going on in

761
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 5: Tara's life previous to her disappearance. There was an incident

762
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 5: four days before she went missing, and then we went

763
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 5: into the day she went missing, and then all of

764
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 5: a sudden, the meetings stopped and I came to the

765
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 5: understanding by my sources that they were not going to

766
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 5: pursue charges, and so now it is in the hands

767
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 5: of the Sheriff's office and the FBI.

768
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: Melinda Escabel joining us. You mentioned an incident four days before,

769
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: and when that incident was brought up during your Q

770
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: and A with law enforcement, suddenly everything got shut down.

771
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: What was the incident? There was a.

772
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 5: Bust at a motel which was very close to Tara's

773
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 5: route where she turned left onto Highway forty seven, and

774
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 5: four days prior to her disappearance, there was a vehicle

775
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 5: that police were watching that was associated with that hotel room,

776
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 5: and one agency called another and asked him not to

777
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 5: pull the vehicle over because they were watching it. But

778
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 5: one agency actually did pull it over, and when they

779
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 5: found when they pulled them over, they opened the trunk

780
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 5: and they found zip ties, tape, guns, and you know

781
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 5: a lot of things, rope, things you would carry to

782
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 5: try to kidnap somebody. And they believe that someone in

783
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 5: that vehicle got to a phone to tell the people

784
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 5: at the motel room of what had happened, and they dispersed,

785
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 5: so they weren't able to catch anyone there, but they

786
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 5: think it was some type of drug deal going down

787
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: in multiple you know, with people from multiple states.

788
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: And in the back of the vehicle, zip ties, guns, tape,

789
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: duct tape. Correct, isn't the suspect connected to that hotel room?

790
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: And discussion of that hotel room shut down your Q

791
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 1: and A. Regarding Tara's disappearance, that suspect was Lawrence Romero Junior,

792
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 1: the son of the sheriff who think it's correct?

793
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 5: Yes, correct, he was. We were able to connect him

794
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 5: to that motel room, and previous to her disappearance, we

795
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 5: can We found out that he had asked her out

796
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 5: on a date. She had turned him down. He had

797
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 5: gotten angry about it. He started following her, He started

798
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 5: stalking her. He started leaving notes on her vehicle that

799
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 5: were nice originally and then became violent over time. He

800
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 5: sent her a bouquet of flowers with another note attached,

801
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 5: and he was seen watching her, and in one of

802
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 5: those notes, he said he was going to get her.

803
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: As we all gather together this holiday season, whether it's

804
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: around a manger scene, a Christmas tree, or a menora,

805
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: we are together as a family. Not everyone has that blessing,

806
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: that luxury to be together during the holidays. Tonight, please

807
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: help us bring them home for Christmas. People across our

808
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: country missing, sometimes for days, sometimes for hours, sometimes for years.

809
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: Won't you help us bring them? I'm home for Christmas?

810
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: Where is Tara Callico? What happened to her? Her family?

811
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: Still looking for answers. Can you imagine that? Hell? If

812
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: you know or think you know anything, please contact Valencia

813
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: Sheriff's five zero five eight six six two four hundred

814
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: or better yet, go to FBI dot gov. We remember

815
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: an American hero officer, Roger Smith, wake Medcampus Police, North Carolina,

816
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 1: shot in the line of duty, leaving behind his grieving daughters,

817
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: Kelly and ALYSSA American hero officer Roger Smith. Nancy Gray

818
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: sunning Off, goodbye friend,