WEBVTT - Democracy in the Dumpster 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.920 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:20.080 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:25.480 it is wokf's holiday week and it is our farewell 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:35.839 week as we close out seven years of conversations, rage, information, celebration, 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.480 and trying to deliver keen political analysis over the last 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.440 seven years. So this week I am bringing you some 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.199 of my favorite shows with some of the voices that 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.640 we've brought took f over the years that I am 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.440 just so grateful for. First up is my conversation with 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.520 our friend Ellie Mistell, who is the Justice correspondent at 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.120 the Nation, and he returns and in this episode he 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:12.240 gives his expert perspective on Trump's indictments that we now 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:16.679 have known are no longer they've gone the way of 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:21.000 the wind. But to remind us these indictments were serious, 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.920 and had America decided to, oh, I don't know, not 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:32.840 vote for a convicted felon, not vote for somebody that 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.040 had been indicted multiple times, not vote for somebody who 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.120 showed very little care about the American people but a 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.200 lot of attention to America's coffers, maybe we wouldn't be 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.520 in the situation that we're in. But I think that 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:51.200 it is important as we wind our way to the 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.880 second Trump regime, which is certain to be worse than 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.520 the first one, because now they know where all the 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.320 keys the kingdom are. The first time around, they were 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.480 just case in the joint seeing what they could take, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.519 and as my friend doctor Christina Grier said, it was 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.440 a smash and grab job. This time around, they can 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.920 be methodical, they can be slow because guess what, ain't 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.799 nobody going and check them? So in this best of episode, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.400 Ellie Mistell brings us through the Trump indictments and the 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:29.320 mountain of evidence that America will never see. Folks, I 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:34.520 am so excited to welcome back to wok F after 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.640 just too long of a time away, which is our 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.680 friend Ellie Mistel, who is a justice correspondent for the 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.440 Nation and the author of Allow Me to Retort, A 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:52.040 Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution and just all around. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:54.480 I don't know what the fuck we call Twitter these days? 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:55.120 Is it X? 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:56.200 Is it? You know? 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:59.760 Trash? It is trash, but you you make it a 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.160 place still worth going. I will say that, Ellie. 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.640 Oh, don't put that. Don't you put that evil on me. 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:13.040 Let me not put that X on you by that. So, Ellie, 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.480 you know I want to talk to you because I 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.839 just there are times when I wish that I had 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.920 not listened to the old white male professor who told 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.600 me it wasn't smart enough to go to law school, 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.600 and that I actually went. And it is times when 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.320 I'm trying to understand how much legal trouble a normal 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.240 person whose name wasn't Trump would be in, uh if 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.600 they had all of these indictments that have already come 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.760 out and one big one still that is looming, actually 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:46.960 two big ones that are looming if you're also looking 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.160 at the state of Georgia. But walk us through, because 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.640 it's potential, the potential of Donald Trump being indicted for 0:03:55.680 --> 0:04:00.560 a third time while people are listening to this is 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:05.520 very high. So please walk us through where we are 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:11.960 in the insurrection case so as not to get people 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.440 confused with the other indictments that the former twice impeach 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:17.240 president has. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.479 Yes, any look, a normal person would be in jail 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.920 like eight times over by this point. A normal person's 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.360 children would probably be in jail at least twice over 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.440 by this point. The normal rules simply don't apply to Trump. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.320 The White Rules does do. And that's kind of how 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:40.200 where we start with. Right, this indictment that's coming from Jacksmith, 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.960 potentially already out from Jacksmith, coming at the time that 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.440 we're recording. To me, this is the big one. This 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:51.440 is the one that we should have been working towards. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.880 Since January seventh, twenty twenty one. Now, there has been 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.880 reporting about how Merrek Carlin has slow walked the investigation 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.120 and basically kind of did everything he could to get 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.599 Trump off the hook. But finally he appointed Jack Smith. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.680 I've said on other shows Danielle that I think I 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.080 was wrong about Jack Smith. I thought he would be 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.960 kind of another Robert Muller type, and he has not 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.880 been run. Now, he is not an actual fucking prosecutor, 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.400 and he has been putting the wood to Trump, not 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 just in the espionage case, but now finally on the 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:30.000 January sixth case. We already know that he has interviewed. Basically, 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:33.120 he has finally done the work that Garland should have 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.680 been doing and that the January sixth Select Committee in 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:41.320 Congress already did. Right, He's finally done the interviews with 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.040 the Cassidy Hutchinson's and the Mark Meadows and the Steve 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.520 batt Bannons. He's gotten all of that information in and 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:52.000 he's prepared to charge Trump with a number of ofugh crimes. 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.000 Right the biggest ticket would be kind of conspiracy to 0:05:56.080 --> 0:06:00.200 deprive right through the color of law. That's basically the 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:05.120 trying to intimidate and and potentially assassinate Mike Pence charge, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.440 Like that's that's what that is. He's going to be charged, 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:15.320 we believe, with obstruction and and and and the fake 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:20.800 electors scheme as well. And these are the serious ones, 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:26.320 not just serious in terms of like legal jeopardy, but 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:31.440 serious in terms of actually holding the man accountable for 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:35.360 the coup he tried to pull off against the government, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.720 Like that needs to happen, and it looks like that 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:43.560 that is finally going to happen. The problem, Danielle, is. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.400 That because there always is one elle race, it's. 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:51.320 It's never just good news. The problem is that that accountability, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.400 that trial over these charges will most likely happen in 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.560 twenty twenty five, and will only be allowed to happen 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:04.760 if Trump loses again another presidential election, where he will 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:09.240 again try to steal it and potentially again try to 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.720 do another coupe, right, Like this is all because of 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.840 the timeline, because of Merrick Garland's slow walking to get 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.560 us to this point. We are now in a situation 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.800 where it's just very unlikely that any of these trials 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.080 are going to happen before the election. And that's not 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:29.440 and there's almost nothing we can do about that. Like 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.240 the timeline is the timeline, and so Trump will get 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:33.880 to run again. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:37.280 But but let me ask you, let me ask this. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.280 I want to say why. 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.720 I don't even want to say I will say why. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:47.920 But so you have first in the Document's case, ailing 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.720 Cannon has set the date from May twenty four, twenty 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:56.320 twenty four, right, yep, And so that is several months 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.680 prior to the election. Why is it that? And then 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.720 Donald Trump prior to that? I believe that Donald Trump, 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:10.880 it has the another Egen Carroll case that I believe 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.560 is happening in October. Why wouldn't this case, which is 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.280 going to be heard in Washington, DC, because it has 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.880 such a long runway given a Leen Cannon's timeline, and 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.720 there is no need for security clearance in the way 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.680 that the Document's case requires security clearance. Why wouldn't that 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.120 be set for the end of the year or January because. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.720 Trials take a long time. I mean, it's just like 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:42.280 there it is. It is just true that trials, especially 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.440 trials of rich white people, take a long time to 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.360 process through the system, and the defense lawyers remember, like 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.960 a lot of times, here's here's the thing that listeners 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.640 have to think about a lot of times when they 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:58.079 hear about court cases or trials from television, news or 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.800 even most print media. They're caring about it from the 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.880 perspective of a prosecutor, right, And the prosecutors are always like, 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.160 go now, go now, we can do this now. And 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:10.280 when they are when the prosecutors are facing criminal defendants 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:16.720 who are underfunded, underprivileged black Latino, the system is very 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:21.320 happy to go as quickly as humanly possible to get 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:25.080 a black and brown people in jail. But when it 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:30.439 happens to white people, the defense attorneys have usually legitimate 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:36.080 reasons and arguments to delay trial. Right. One of the 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.800 biggest ones is that the defense lawyers need time to 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.040 go over all of the evidence that the government has 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:48.000 and prepare an adequate defense. Right. So in these cases 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.040 I always argue kind of in favor of the defense, 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.280 because I realize that more often than not, what I'm 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.160 doing is arguing on behalf of black and Latino people 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.520 who are being railroaded through the system. Right, So I 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:05.240 understand and I guess the need for defend's attorneys to 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.400 have time to prepare their cases. Is Trump getting more 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.240 time than normal? It depends on what you think normal is. Right. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.040 If you think normal is what we do to black people, 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.520 then hell yeah, he's getting way more time. Is he 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:22.599 getting more time than he should? The brass tacks of 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.240 it is, if you look at the espionage case, at least, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.080 given when Smith was allowed to make these charges, I 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.200 think May twenty fourth is about the right day. I 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.840 think that's about the right time. Now. The question is, 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.560 and I think that this is the bigger problem. It's 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.240 unlike May twenty fourth is unlikely to hold up. You know, sorry, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.480 May twentieth, twenty twenty four is unlikely to hold up 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.800 because as we get closer to May twentieth, twenty twenty four, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.160 Trump's lawyers will again ask for a delay. They will 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.640 say they were overwhelmed, so they'll be there. They're busy 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.120 running a campaign. They'll say whatever they have to say, 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:00.280 and with Trump Judge Eileen Cannon having already own a 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:05.200 willingness to the lay this trial for six months, it's 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:06.840 I think, but this is. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:12.200 This is why I think that the insurrection case has 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.960 the potential to go before ailing Cannon's case. And my 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.680 feeling is one because it's going to be held in DC. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.160 I don't know. And this is a question for you, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.600 who do we think that that judge is like what 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:29.920 circuit is this going through? Is that this is actually 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.160 about this about national security? 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:33.680 Right? 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.520 You're talking about somebody who is going to be indicted 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.400 on charges that I am going to assume one of 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:44.280 them may in fact be seditious conspiracy, which we have 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:49.120 seen both keeper folks and others get charged with and 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.760 it stick. So I guess, like, am I being in 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:59.000 two naive Ellie in thinking that the fate of our 0:11:59.120 --> 0:12:06.280 democracy and the person who instigated and incided the riot 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.040 on the Capitol and told people to overturn the government 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:14.320 who is running for election, that that would be caused 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.120 for a speedy trial. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.160 I think you're right. I think it should. I think 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.079 that the differences in the January sixth case versus the 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:27.920 espionage case lend itself to a faster timeline than what 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.280 Eileen Canon has set up for the espionage case. As 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.800 you point out, this is happening in DC, that means 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.960 that the judge, we don't know what judge will get right, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.480 and it will be a random choice from among the 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:46.440 judges that sit on in the DC circuit. Right, that 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.559 circuit is generally pretty split. Generally, it's not as conservative 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:55.800 as the Florida circuit where Canon was pulled from, is 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.080 not as conservative as like the Fifth Circuit if it 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.360 was out in Texas or Louisiana. It's a pretty pretty 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.760 evenly split circuit, you know. But it's still going to 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.760 come down to kind of a random dice roll in 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:12.720 terms of which judge we get right. If you get 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.440 an aggressive judge, you will have an aggressive timeline. And yeah, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.640 there's there's a good chance that they will set a 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:26.160 date before the next election. But then the defense lawyers 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.720 will appeal that date. And don't forget that these appeals 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.360 about the timing of the of the of the trial 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.800 could go all the way to the Supreme Court, where 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.400 Trump has stacked the Supreme Court with his own hand 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:45.559 picked judges. Brett Kavanaugh in particular, is very susceptible to 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.280 arguments that this is happening too close to the election 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.360 for us to do anything about it, like he's made 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:58.360 that argument before in cases involving outright racism in electoral jerrymandering. Right, 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.840 So I am not confident that an aggressive timeline will 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.760 will work in front of Brett Kavanaugh or the other Conservatives. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.000 So we'll still have to wait and see, but I 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.160 think that it is very likely that this trial will somehow, 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.040 some way get delayed until after the election. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:21.120 The positive is where are you going for the positive? 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.120 Because you have already put my feelings and my hopes 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.600 and dreams in the dumpster along with our democracy. So 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.360 what road trip are we go not for the positive side? 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.400 The positive is this the last time Trump lost an election, 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.640 he should have immediately been thrown into jail for his 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:42.040 efforts to overturn it. And obviously the system wasn't ready 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.600 to do that. We picked Merrick Garland instead of like 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.360 a better person. You know, lots of issues happen. We 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.760 weren't ready. The system wasn't ready to throw his ass 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.000 in jail after he lost the last election. If he 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.720 loses the next one, the positive here is that I 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.240 really do believe that if he loses the next election, 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.440 there will be you know, tiny little handcuffs waiting for 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.440 him at the end of that road. Like he needs 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:10.440 to win the election to stay out of jail. And 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.080 if he loses, and he should lose because he's a 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.760 terrible person and a terrible candidate and blah blah blah blah, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.960 if he loses, there should be handcuffs waiting for him 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:21.920 if he loses. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.160 And right now we're at a fifty to fifty fucking 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:29.560 toss up that that is going to be the reality, 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.960 right Like it's fifty to fifty that Donald Trump doesn't 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.640 have the maneuvers still to lie, cheat and steal his 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.680 way to the White House. Now, I think that the upside, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.520 if in fact we call it that because it's not 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:52.280 the floor, the upside is that, I hope, because we 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.200 have tried the Jurassic Park version where they have touched 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:00.720 all of the fences and folks have been you know, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:05.120 are there are sixteen fake electors that are being charged 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.440 in you know, in Michigan. You got other people that 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.760 are being investigated. I think that in my opinion, and 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.680 I want to talk about this case next the dragnet, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.120 if you will, is coming out of Georgia, because I 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.440 don't think that Trump is the only person that Fannie 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.160 Willis is looking at when she's prepared to drop her indictments. 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:30.120 And so again we our democracy held on by a 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.280 thread and was tested over sixty six times in court 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:38.320 with Rudy Giuliani, with these fake electors, with the phone calls, 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.240 and so I think folks are prepared for what they 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.760 know could be coming their way. That's the only hope here. 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:51.440 That and you know, a fourth indictment, the fourth and 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.680 final I don't know, coming out of Georgia. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:56.720 Yeah, I mean, if we're looking for hope, that's where 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.840 we find it. Right like that, people will be more 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.800 prepared that are there, elections will be more resilient this 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.760 time than they were last time. Of course, you also 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.360 have to worry about the fact that, you know, one 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:11.760 of the reasons why it's so important to prosecute people 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.480 who attempt coups is that if you don't prosecute them, 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.800 and if you don't hold them accountable, they just try 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.959 it again, and the second time they're better. So as 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.040 much as we can say that like, okay, our elections, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.440 our election system should be better prepared to defend itself 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.080 from Trump. We also have to understand that Trump and 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.240 his forces will make a better coup attempt round two, 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.359 having potentially learned lessons from round one. We know that 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.800 they've done a lot to stack the courts, to stack 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.520 the secretaries of states in ways that are amenable to 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:52.639 various coup attempts, whether the legal ones, the quote unquote 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.720 legal ones of fake electors and whatever. We all, but 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:00.280 we also know that his more violent forces, you know, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.040 have also learned some lessons about how to violently overthrow 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.480 the government, and we can we have to at least 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:11.080 expect that they will be coming again. You know. We know, 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.600 for instance, one of the biggest organizing things that Trump 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.679 used to put the coup out there with social media, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.719 and after you know, being banned, we know that he 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.280 now has an ally in Elon Musk and social media 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.399 potentially to organize another coup. So like, yes, there are 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.640 more defenses, but also they're going to be new attacks, 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.119 and so we have to be you know, I am 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.160 still hopeful that he loses, and I'm still hopeful that 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.639 after he loses, he loses all of his attempts to 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.440 overthrow the election. But I'd be a fool to think 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.359 that they're not going to be It's not going to 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.680 be like, you know, we're watching TV on November whatever 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.240 and CNN says no, the winner is declared for and 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.440 then that's it. Right. We know there's going even after 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.679 he loses at the balance, we know there's going to 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.240 be another attempt, and we're prepared for that too. 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:06.240 We shall see. Let's switch gears a little bit just 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.000 to go down to Georgia and then I want to 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.199 go to the Supreme Court. So down in Georgia, you 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.560 do have Fannie Willis. You do have another what I 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.880 deem as another very serious case right that she's been 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.240 building an unlike the slothlike pace of Merrick Garland, she's 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.240 actually been going full steam ahead for the last two years. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.480 So give us your thoughts on where Fannie while Willis 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.000 is in terms of her You know, she gave us 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.960 an announcement several months ago that said we were to 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:41.520 be on the lookout between July and September. Well we're 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.760 headed into August now, So what do you think about 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.360 her case and the timing and then how again this 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.600 all measures up as we head into the fall a 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.360 year out from the presidential So I've. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.359 Always thought Georgia had the strongest case because they have 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.680 the motherfucker on tape trying to overturn the election. Right, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.119 They've got, like everybody's heard the tape where he tries 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.119 to find eleven thousand votes, which has just happens to 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.399 be exactly how many he needs to overturn the election. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.720 So I've always thought that just kind of evidentiary, that 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.879 is the strongest case against him. But one thing, and 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.240 I do believe that Fannie Willis has been a dedicated, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.520 kind of hardworking public servant and is trying to do 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.479 things the right way. But we have seen that Fannie 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:32.520 Willis is also sensitive to political pressure, and so you know, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:37.359 we saw her say before the midterms that she wouldn't 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.520 release any news within a kind of zone of secrecy 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.639 around the midterms so as to not unduly influence the 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.840 midterm elections, which is not a legal position, it's a 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.840 political position. So, you know, not something that I would 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.119 have done. But okay, so now again what we what 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.600 we worry about with Willis is not whether or not 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.560 she's going to diligently charge a crime that she can prove, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.960 but whether or not that trial comes off before the election, 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.520 and you know, if Fannie Willis is not willing to 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.880 make any an announcement within a zone of secrecy around 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.159 the midterms, you know, is she gonna be willing to 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.400 put this man to trial and let's say July twenty 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.760 twenty four, right before the Republican National Convention, or he 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:26.280 will be crowned the GOP nominee. Again, I don't know that. 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.959 I don't know that she'll do that. I don't know 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.919 that I don't know that a judge will let her 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.320 do a Georgia judge will let her do that. So again, 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:41.679 the I just am not sure, despite the immense legal 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:46.159 jeopardy he's under, I'm just not sure that any of 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.840 these trials, the Willis one, either of the Jack Smith ones, 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.240 I'm not sure that any of them come off before 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:53.600 November twenty twenty four. 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.919 So essentially we're fucked right, And essentially we've all played 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:04.480 into Donald Trump and his lawyer's hands in knowing exactly 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:06.240 how they were going to use this, how it was 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:08.520 going to be spun, the timeline that was going to 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.480 be created, and the person to blame isn't just Donald 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:13.920 Trump and his lawyers, because we always know the tactics 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.120 that we're going to be made. It is Merrick Garland 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:22.520 and his desire to not play politics and play the 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:26.840 most insane politics at the same time, which is, let 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:29.680 me not go after Donald Trump because I don't want 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.920 to look like this is something partisan. Let me waste 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:36.320 twelve months of time, and now we're here. 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.040 The analogy that Ivan mcgarland is like a basketball referee 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.080 who swallows the whistle and refuses to call a file, 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.879 and that referee says like, Oh, I'm just trying to 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.000 be neutral and fair to both sides. I'm not going 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:49.359 to call file. I was going to let the games 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:52.399 play out. That's not being fair and neutral. That is 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:57.560 benefiting the team that fouls. If you don't call the 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.719 rules correctly, you benefit the team that breaks the rules. 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:04.440 And that's Merrick Garland and his alleged attempt to be 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.960 non political. He has. All he's done is completely politicize 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:14.840 the process. And that the reason why I've been screaming 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.240 about Merrick Garland for two years prior to this is 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.800 because at some point his failure becomes unrecoverable, right like 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.800 you can't and This is where I'm talking about the timeline. 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.360 Because of his delays, it's now very hard to squeeze 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.879 everything in before the election. I mean, Danielle, riddle me this. Okay, 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.439 Let's say one of these trials goes off and he 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:39.679 gets convicted. Is he gonna get sentenced before the election. 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.399 Is he gonna be sent to jail before the election? 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:46.960 How does that even work? Are we gonna actually send 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:55.520 federal marshals to arrest the Republican nominee for president eight 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.120 weeks before the general election? Is that really something that's 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.919 gonna happen in America? Because that's gonna look like something 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.320 that happens in you know, other cut and true Banana 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:10.760 republic countries. Right. So, because the timeline has been so truncated, 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.000 I just don't know how any of this happens before 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:15.840 he's allowed to run again. And so even if he's 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:20.560 tried and convicted, if he wins the presidency, he will 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:24.280 pardon himself from that conviction commute, I think at that 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.320 point is what you would call what he would do, 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:30.720 And so he would never face actual accountability even if 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:33.359 he was convicted, and he's convicted on the state charges 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:36.920 where he can't pardon himself. I mean again, are the 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.399 Georgia State troopers gonna go arrest the president of the 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:47.200 United States? Is that at some point the practicality kind 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:52.280 of trumps the theory of the case, right, Yeah, and 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:54.879 and and so that's my problem, that's my that's my worry. 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.480 Like all of this, all of this looks great on paper, 0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.280 right when you actually when it actually comes to time 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:05.879 to try convict and jail this man before the election, 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:08.520