1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 2 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: it is wokf's holiday week and it is our farewell 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: week as we close out seven years of conversations, rage, information, celebration, 5 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: and trying to deliver keen political analysis over the last 6 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: seven years. So this week I am bringing you some 7 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: of my favorite shows with some of the voices that 8 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: we've brought took f over the years that I am 9 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: just so grateful for. First up is my conversation with 10 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: our friend Ellie Mistell, who is the Justice correspondent at 11 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: the Nation, and he returns and in this episode he 12 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: gives his expert perspective on Trump's indictments that we now 13 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: have known are no longer they've gone the way of 14 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: the wind. But to remind us these indictments were serious, 15 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: and had America decided to, oh, I don't know, not 16 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: vote for a convicted felon, not vote for somebody that 17 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: had been indicted multiple times, not vote for somebody who 18 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: showed very little care about the American people but a 19 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: lot of attention to America's coffers, maybe we wouldn't be 20 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: in the situation that we're in. But I think that 21 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: it is important as we wind our way to the 22 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: second Trump regime, which is certain to be worse than 23 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: the first one, because now they know where all the 24 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: keys the kingdom are. The first time around, they were 25 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: just case in the joint seeing what they could take, 26 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: and as my friend doctor Christina Grier said, it was 27 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: a smash and grab job. This time around, they can 28 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: be methodical, they can be slow because guess what, ain't 29 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: nobody going and check them? So in this best of episode, 30 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: Ellie Mistell brings us through the Trump indictments and the 31 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: mountain of evidence that America will never see. Folks, I 32 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: am so excited to welcome back to wok F after 33 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: just too long of a time away, which is our 34 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: friend Ellie Mistel, who is a justice correspondent for the 35 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: Nation and the author of Allow Me to Retort, A 36 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution and just all around. 37 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what the fuck we call Twitter these days? 38 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: Is it X? 39 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: Is it? You know? 40 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: Trash? It is trash, but you you make it a 41 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: place still worth going. I will say that, Ellie. 42 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: Oh, don't put that. Don't you put that evil on me. 43 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: Let me not put that X on you by that. So, Ellie, 44 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: you know I want to talk to you because I 45 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 1: just there are times when I wish that I had 46 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: not listened to the old white male professor who told 47 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: me it wasn't smart enough to go to law school, 48 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: and that I actually went. And it is times when 49 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand how much legal trouble a normal 50 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: person whose name wasn't Trump would be in, uh if 51 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: they had all of these indictments that have already come 52 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: out and one big one still that is looming, actually 53 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: two big ones that are looming if you're also looking 54 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: at the state of Georgia. But walk us through, because 55 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: it's potential, the potential of Donald Trump being indicted for 56 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: a third time while people are listening to this is 57 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: very high. So please walk us through where we are 58 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: in the insurrection case so as not to get people 59 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: confused with the other indictments that the former twice impeach 60 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: president has. 61 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 2: Yes, any look, a normal person would be in jail 62 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: like eight times over by this point. A normal person's 63 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: children would probably be in jail at least twice over 64 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: by this point. The normal rules simply don't apply to Trump. 65 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: The White Rules does do. And that's kind of how 66 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: where we start with. Right, this indictment that's coming from Jacksmith, 67 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: potentially already out from Jacksmith, coming at the time that 68 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: we're recording. To me, this is the big one. This 69 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: is the one that we should have been working towards. 70 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: Since January seventh, twenty twenty one. Now, there has been 71 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: reporting about how Merrek Carlin has slow walked the investigation 72 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: and basically kind of did everything he could to get 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 2: Trump off the hook. But finally he appointed Jack Smith. 74 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: I've said on other shows Danielle that I think I 75 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: was wrong about Jack Smith. I thought he would be 76 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: kind of another Robert Muller type, and he has not 77 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: been run. Now, he is not an actual fucking prosecutor, 78 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: and he has been putting the wood to Trump, not 79 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: just in the espionage case, but now finally on the 80 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: January sixth case. We already know that he has interviewed. Basically, 81 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: he has finally done the work that Garland should have 82 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: been doing and that the January sixth Select Committee in 83 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: Congress already did. Right, He's finally done the interviews with 84 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: the Cassidy Hutchinson's and the Mark Meadows and the Steve 85 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: batt Bannons. He's gotten all of that information in and 86 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 2: he's prepared to charge Trump with a number of ofugh crimes. 87 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 2: Right the biggest ticket would be kind of conspiracy to 88 00:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 2: deprive right through the color of law. That's basically the 89 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: trying to intimidate and and potentially assassinate Mike Pence charge, 90 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: Like that's that's what that is. He's going to be charged, 91 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: we believe, with obstruction and and and and the fake 92 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: electors scheme as well. And these are the serious ones, 93 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: not just serious in terms of like legal jeopardy, but 94 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: serious in terms of actually holding the man accountable for 95 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 2: the coup he tried to pull off against the government, 96 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: Like that needs to happen, and it looks like that 97 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: that is finally going to happen. The problem, Danielle, is. 98 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: That because there always is one elle race, it's. 99 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: It's never just good news. The problem is that that accountability, 100 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 2: that trial over these charges will most likely happen in 101 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and will only be allowed to happen 102 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: if Trump loses again another presidential election, where he will 103 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: again try to steal it and potentially again try to 104 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: do another coupe, right, Like this is all because of 105 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 2: the timeline, because of Merrick Garland's slow walking to get 106 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: us to this point. We are now in a situation 107 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: where it's just very unlikely that any of these trials 108 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: are going to happen before the election. And that's not 109 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: and there's almost nothing we can do about that. Like 110 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: the timeline is the timeline, and so Trump will get 111 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: to run again. 112 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: But but let me ask you, let me ask this. 113 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: I want to say why. 114 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: I don't even want to say I will say why. 115 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: But so you have first in the Document's case, ailing 116 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: Cannon has set the date from May twenty four, twenty 117 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: twenty four, right, yep, And so that is several months 118 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: prior to the election. Why is it that? And then 119 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: Donald Trump prior to that? I believe that Donald Trump, 120 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: it has the another Egen Carroll case that I believe 121 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: is happening in October. Why wouldn't this case, which is 122 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: going to be heard in Washington, DC, because it has 123 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: such a long runway given a Leen Cannon's timeline, and 124 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: there is no need for security clearance in the way 125 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: that the Document's case requires security clearance. Why wouldn't that 126 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: be set for the end of the year or January because. 127 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: Trials take a long time. I mean, it's just like 128 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: there it is. It is just true that trials, especially 129 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 2: trials of rich white people, take a long time to 130 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: process through the system, and the defense lawyers remember, like 131 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 2: a lot of times, here's here's the thing that listeners 132 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: have to think about a lot of times when they 133 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: hear about court cases or trials from television, news or 134 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: even most print media. They're caring about it from the 135 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: perspective of a prosecutor, right, And the prosecutors are always like, 136 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: go now, go now, we can do this now. And 137 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: when they are when the prosecutors are facing criminal defendants 138 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: who are underfunded, underprivileged black Latino, the system is very 139 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: happy to go as quickly as humanly possible to get 140 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 2: a black and brown people in jail. But when it 141 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: happens to white people, the defense attorneys have usually legitimate 142 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 2: reasons and arguments to delay trial. Right. One of the 143 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: biggest ones is that the defense lawyers need time to 144 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: go over all of the evidence that the government has 145 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: and prepare an adequate defense. Right. So in these cases 146 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: I always argue kind of in favor of the defense, 147 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: because I realize that more often than not, what I'm 148 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: doing is arguing on behalf of black and Latino people 149 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: who are being railroaded through the system. Right, So I 150 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: understand and I guess the need for defend's attorneys to 151 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: have time to prepare their cases. Is Trump getting more 152 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: time than normal? It depends on what you think normal is. Right. 153 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: If you think normal is what we do to black people, 154 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: then hell yeah, he's getting way more time. Is he 155 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,599 Speaker 2: getting more time than he should? The brass tacks of 156 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: it is, if you look at the espionage case, at least, 157 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: given when Smith was allowed to make these charges, I 158 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 2: think May twenty fourth is about the right day. I 159 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 2: think that's about the right time. Now. The question is, 160 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: and I think that this is the bigger problem. It's 161 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: unlike May twenty fourth is unlikely to hold up. You know, sorry, 162 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 2: May twentieth, twenty twenty four is unlikely to hold up 163 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 2: because as we get closer to May twentieth, twenty twenty four, 164 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: Trump's lawyers will again ask for a delay. They will 165 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: say they were overwhelmed, so they'll be there. They're busy 166 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: running a campaign. They'll say whatever they have to say, 167 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: and with Trump Judge Eileen Cannon having already own a 168 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: willingness to the lay this trial for six months, it's 169 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 2: I think, but this is. 170 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: This is why I think that the insurrection case has 171 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: the potential to go before ailing Cannon's case. And my 172 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: feeling is one because it's going to be held in DC. 173 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. And this is a question for you, 174 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: who do we think that that judge is like what 175 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: circuit is this going through? Is that this is actually 176 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: about this about national security? 177 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: Right? 178 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: You're talking about somebody who is going to be indicted 179 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: on charges that I am going to assume one of 180 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: them may in fact be seditious conspiracy, which we have 181 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: seen both keeper folks and others get charged with and 182 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: it stick. So I guess, like, am I being in 183 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: two naive Ellie in thinking that the fate of our 184 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: democracy and the person who instigated and incided the riot 185 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: on the Capitol and told people to overturn the government 186 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: who is running for election, that that would be caused 187 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: for a speedy trial. 188 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think it should. I think 189 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 2: that the differences in the January sixth case versus the 190 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: espionage case lend itself to a faster timeline than what 191 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: Eileen Canon has set up for the espionage case. As 192 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: you point out, this is happening in DC, that means 193 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: that the judge, we don't know what judge will get right, 194 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: and it will be a random choice from among the 195 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: judges that sit on in the DC circuit. Right, that 196 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 2: circuit is generally pretty split. Generally, it's not as conservative 197 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 2: as the Florida circuit where Canon was pulled from, is 198 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: not as conservative as like the Fifth Circuit if it 199 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: was out in Texas or Louisiana. It's a pretty pretty 200 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: evenly split circuit, you know. But it's still going to 201 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: come down to kind of a random dice roll in 202 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 2: terms of which judge we get right. If you get 203 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: an aggressive judge, you will have an aggressive timeline. And yeah, 204 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: there's there's a good chance that they will set a 205 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: date before the next election. But then the defense lawyers 206 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: will appeal that date. And don't forget that these appeals 207 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: about the timing of the of the of the trial 208 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: could go all the way to the Supreme Court, where 209 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: Trump has stacked the Supreme Court with his own hand 210 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 2: picked judges. Brett Kavanaugh in particular, is very susceptible to 211 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: arguments that this is happening too close to the election 212 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: for us to do anything about it, like he's made 213 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: that argument before in cases involving outright racism in electoral jerrymandering. Right, 214 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: So I am not confident that an aggressive timeline will 215 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: will work in front of Brett Kavanaugh or the other Conservatives. 216 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: So we'll still have to wait and see, but I 217 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: think that it is very likely that this trial will somehow, 218 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: some way get delayed until after the election. 219 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: The positive is where are you going for the positive? 220 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: Because you have already put my feelings and my hopes 221 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: and dreams in the dumpster along with our democracy. So 222 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: what road trip are we go not for the positive side? 223 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: The positive is this the last time Trump lost an election, 224 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: he should have immediately been thrown into jail for his 225 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 2: efforts to overturn it. And obviously the system wasn't ready 226 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: to do that. We picked Merrick Garland instead of like 227 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: a better person. You know, lots of issues happen. We 228 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: weren't ready. The system wasn't ready to throw his ass 229 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: in jail after he lost the last election. If he 230 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: loses the next one, the positive here is that I 231 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: really do believe that if he loses the next election, 232 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 2: there will be you know, tiny little handcuffs waiting for 233 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: him at the end of that road. Like he needs 234 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: to win the election to stay out of jail. And 235 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: if he loses, and he should lose because he's a 236 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: terrible person and a terrible candidate and blah blah blah blah, 237 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: if he loses, there should be handcuffs waiting for him 238 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: if he loses. 239 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: And right now we're at a fifty to fifty fucking 240 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: toss up that that is going to be the reality, 241 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: right Like it's fifty to fifty that Donald Trump doesn't 242 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: have the maneuvers still to lie, cheat and steal his 243 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: way to the White House. Now, I think that the upside, 244 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: if in fact we call it that because it's not 245 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: the floor, the upside is that, I hope, because we 246 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: have tried the Jurassic Park version where they have touched 247 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: all of the fences and folks have been you know, 248 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: are there are sixteen fake electors that are being charged 249 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: in you know, in Michigan. You got other people that 250 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: are being investigated. I think that in my opinion, and 251 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: I want to talk about this case next the dragnet, 252 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: if you will, is coming out of Georgia, because I 253 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: don't think that Trump is the only person that Fannie 254 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: Willis is looking at when she's prepared to drop her indictments. 255 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: And so again we our democracy held on by a 256 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: thread and was tested over sixty six times in court 257 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: with Rudy Giuliani, with these fake electors, with the phone calls, 258 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: and so I think folks are prepared for what they 259 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: know could be coming their way. That's the only hope here. 260 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: That and you know, a fourth indictment, the fourth and 261 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: final I don't know, coming out of Georgia. 262 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if we're looking for hope, that's where 263 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: we find it. Right like that, people will be more 264 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: prepared that are there, elections will be more resilient this 265 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: time than they were last time. Of course, you also 266 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 2: have to worry about the fact that, you know, one 267 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 2: of the reasons why it's so important to prosecute people 268 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: who attempt coups is that if you don't prosecute them, 269 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: and if you don't hold them accountable, they just try 270 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,959 Speaker 2: it again, and the second time they're better. So as 271 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 2: much as we can say that like, okay, our elections, 272 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 2: our election system should be better prepared to defend itself 273 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: from Trump. We also have to understand that Trump and 274 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: his forces will make a better coup attempt round two, 275 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 2: having potentially learned lessons from round one. We know that 276 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: they've done a lot to stack the courts, to stack 277 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: the secretaries of states in ways that are amenable to 278 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 2: various coup attempts, whether the legal ones, the quote unquote 279 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: legal ones of fake electors and whatever. We all, but 280 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: we also know that his more violent forces, you know, 281 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: have also learned some lessons about how to violently overthrow 282 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: the government, and we can we have to at least 283 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: expect that they will be coming again. You know. We know, 284 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: for instance, one of the biggest organizing things that Trump 285 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: used to put the coup out there with social media, 286 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 2: and after you know, being banned, we know that he 287 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: now has an ally in Elon Musk and social media 288 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 2: potentially to organize another coup. So like, yes, there are 289 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 2: more defenses, but also they're going to be new attacks, 290 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 2: and so we have to be you know, I am 291 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 2: still hopeful that he loses, and I'm still hopeful that 292 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: after he loses, he loses all of his attempts to 293 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: overthrow the election. But I'd be a fool to think 294 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: that they're not going to be It's not going to 295 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: be like, you know, we're watching TV on November whatever 296 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: and CNN says no, the winner is declared for and 297 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: then that's it. Right. We know there's going even after 298 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 2: he loses at the balance, we know there's going to 299 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: be another attempt, and we're prepared for that too. 300 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: We shall see. Let's switch gears a little bit just 301 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: to go down to Georgia and then I want to 302 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: go to the Supreme Court. So down in Georgia, you 303 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: do have Fannie Willis. You do have another what I 304 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: deem as another very serious case right that she's been 305 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: building an unlike the slothlike pace of Merrick Garland, she's 306 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: actually been going full steam ahead for the last two years. 307 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: So give us your thoughts on where Fannie while Willis 308 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: is in terms of her You know, she gave us 309 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: an announcement several months ago that said we were to 310 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: be on the lookout between July and September. Well we're 311 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: headed into August now, So what do you think about 312 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: her case and the timing and then how again this 313 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: all measures up as we head into the fall a 314 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: year out from the presidential So I've. 315 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: Always thought Georgia had the strongest case because they have 316 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 2: the motherfucker on tape trying to overturn the election. Right, 317 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: They've got, like everybody's heard the tape where he tries 318 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 2: to find eleven thousand votes, which has just happens to 319 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: be exactly how many he needs to overturn the election. 320 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: So I've always thought that just kind of evidentiary, that 321 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: is the strongest case against him. But one thing, and 322 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: I do believe that Fannie Willis has been a dedicated, 323 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 2: kind of hardworking public servant and is trying to do 324 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 2: things the right way. But we have seen that Fannie 325 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: Willis is also sensitive to political pressure, and so you know, 326 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: we saw her say before the midterms that she wouldn't 327 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: release any news within a kind of zone of secrecy 328 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 2: around the midterms so as to not unduly influence the 329 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 2: midterm elections, which is not a legal position, it's a 330 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: political position. So, you know, not something that I would 331 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 2: have done. But okay, so now again what we what 332 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: we worry about with Willis is not whether or not 333 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: she's going to diligently charge a crime that she can prove, 334 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 2: but whether or not that trial comes off before the election, 335 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: and you know, if Fannie Willis is not willing to 336 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 2: make any an announcement within a zone of secrecy around 337 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: the midterms, you know, is she gonna be willing to 338 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 2: put this man to trial and let's say July twenty 339 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: twenty four, right before the Republican National Convention, or he 340 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: will be crowned the GOP nominee. Again, I don't know that. 341 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 2: I don't know that she'll do that. I don't know 342 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 2: that I don't know that a judge will let her 343 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: do a Georgia judge will let her do that. So again, 344 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: the I just am not sure, despite the immense legal 345 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: jeopardy he's under, I'm just not sure that any of 346 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: these trials, the Willis one, either of the Jack Smith ones, 347 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that any of them come off before 348 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: November twenty twenty four. 349 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: So essentially we're fucked right, And essentially we've all played 350 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: into Donald Trump and his lawyer's hands in knowing exactly 351 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: how they were going to use this, how it was 352 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: going to be spun, the timeline that was going to 353 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: be created, and the person to blame isn't just Donald 354 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: Trump and his lawyers, because we always know the tactics 355 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: that we're going to be made. It is Merrick Garland 356 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: and his desire to not play politics and play the 357 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: most insane politics at the same time, which is, let 358 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: me not go after Donald Trump because I don't want 359 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: to look like this is something partisan. Let me waste 360 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: twelve months of time, and now we're here. 361 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: The analogy that Ivan mcgarland is like a basketball referee 362 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: who swallows the whistle and refuses to call a file, 363 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: and that referee says like, Oh, I'm just trying to 364 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: be neutral and fair to both sides. I'm not going 365 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 2: to call file. I was going to let the games 366 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 2: play out. That's not being fair and neutral. That is 367 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: benefiting the team that fouls. If you don't call the 368 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 2: rules correctly, you benefit the team that breaks the rules. 369 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 2: And that's Merrick Garland and his alleged attempt to be 370 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 2: non political. He has. All he's done is completely politicize 371 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: the process. And that the reason why I've been screaming 372 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 2: about Merrick Garland for two years prior to this is 373 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: because at some point his failure becomes unrecoverable, right like 374 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: you can't and This is where I'm talking about the timeline. 375 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 2: Because of his delays, it's now very hard to squeeze 376 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 2: everything in before the election. I mean, Danielle, riddle me this. Okay, 377 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 2: Let's say one of these trials goes off and he 378 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 2: gets convicted. Is he gonna get sentenced before the election. 379 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: Is he gonna be sent to jail before the election? 380 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: How does that even work? Are we gonna actually send 381 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 2: federal marshals to arrest the Republican nominee for president eight 382 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: weeks before the general election? Is that really something that's 383 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: gonna happen in America? Because that's gonna look like something 384 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: that happens in you know, other cut and true Banana 385 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: republic countries. Right. So, because the timeline has been so truncated, 386 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: I just don't know how any of this happens before 387 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: he's allowed to run again. And so even if he's 388 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 2: tried and convicted, if he wins the presidency, he will 389 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: pardon himself from that conviction commute, I think at that 390 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: point is what you would call what he would do, 391 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: And so he would never face actual accountability even if 392 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: he was convicted, and he's convicted on the state charges 393 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 2: where he can't pardon himself. I mean again, are the 394 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: Georgia State troopers gonna go arrest the president of the 395 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: United States? Is that at some point the practicality kind 396 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: of trumps the theory of the case, right, Yeah, and 397 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 2: and and so that's my problem, that's my that's my worry. 398 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: Like all of this, all of this looks great on paper, 399 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: right when you actually when it actually comes to time 400 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: to try convict and jail this man before the election, 401 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: I just think it's too late. It wouldn't be too 402 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 2: late if we were having this trial right now, right. 403 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: And that's again where the failure of Garland where the 404 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: slow pace of all the investigations really take a hole. 405 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 2: If you think about where we were at the end 406 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 2: of the January sixth Select Committee process, right where Trump 407 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: could have been charged that day based on that final 408 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: report from the Congressional Select Committee, right, like an aggressive 409 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 2: prosecutor would have been really ready to charge his ass 410 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: that day. At the end of twenty twenty two, then 411 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: we're talking about a trial that happens not in May 412 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, but May twenty twenty three. Yeah, we're 413 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 2: talking about a sentencing process that's happening over the summer. 414 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 2: We're talking about the legitimate ability to capture and jail 415 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 2: this man before Labor Day, a year and a half 416 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 2: before the election, and that would have been doable. Now 417 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 2: I don't know. I just it's very hard to see 418 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 2: it happening. 419 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: God, this was depressing. 420 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: Well again, if he loses straight to the pokey right, 421 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 2: if there's no addition like the again, the other way 422 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: to positive to spend this positively is that Trump is 423 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 2: using his last get out of jail free cards and 424 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: as long as we don't give him four years of 425 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: another one, right, as long as we don't give him 426 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: another draw for those cards, he's gonna run out eventually 427 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: and we should be able to put his ass in jail. 428 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: Okay, I mean, here's hoping, right, I have no faith, 429 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: but you know, here, here's hoping. Before I let you go, Ellie, 430 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna scrap Scotis because you know they've scrapped democracy 431 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: in the country, integrity. But I do want to get 432 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: to someone who I believe that both of us probably 433 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: grew up listening to, whose music had resonated, and who 434 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: has clearly had a fucking lobotomy. And that is the 435 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: one and only ice Cube, who was just recently filming 436 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: with none other than Tucker Carlson, Please take the floor. 437 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 2: I would like our friend Torrejo was big, you know, 438 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 2: feature pieces titled from Fuck the Police to Fund the Police, 439 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 2: the punk bitification of ice Cube. 440 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: I'm texting him right now like that, that. 441 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 2: Is what I want to read, because how this man 442 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 2: has gone from where he was, where he was one 443 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 2: of the what what the what the over educated black 444 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: folks like me like to call one of the urban 445 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 2: poets who is you know, talking about police brutality and 446 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: the devastating effects that has on the black community to 447 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: this point where he's kissing their ass is just one 448 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 2: of the biggest devolutions that I can think that I 449 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: have seen in my lifetime. Now I have a theory 450 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: about this, Danielle. I call it the special black Man 451 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 2: theory is that there are there are you know, one 452 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 2: of the and this kind of They're gonna call me 453 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: a critical race theorist after this, but like you know, 454 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: one of the issues that I think a lot of 455 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: black people chafe against is the fact that we're always 456 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: grouped in with everybody else, right, We're always we're always 457 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: you know, collectively viewed as if we are a monolithic 458 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: people and we're not right, and some but some special 459 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: black men like chase at that more than others, right, 460 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: And so then their idea is just that whatever most 461 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: black people are doing, they gotta do something different just 462 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 2: to prove that they special, they not like the rest 463 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: of us. Right. And so you could argue, and this 464 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: is why I want again a scholar like Terrey to 465 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 2: kind of explain it to me. You could argue that 466 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 2: maybe he was never really about fuck the police. Maybe 467 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: he was always just about being special, just just saying 468 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 2: that special thing that makes him a little bit different 469 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: than the other black And so now it actually so 470 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 2: maybe it's not incongruous. Maybe it actually perfectly tracks. He 471 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: was fucked the police when the most black people were like, okay, 472 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: we have to have belize what can we do? And 473 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: now that most black people are like, you know what, 474 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: fuck the police, he's like, oh, actually no, Tucker and 475 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 2: I tan our balls together, like because he's just like 476 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: that special guy. Like that's my that's my theory. But 477 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 2: I have not studied, and so I study want somebody 478 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: explain it to me. 479 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 1: You as I mean, but I think that everything that 480 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: you just laid out is right. Maybe we're the ones 481 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: that got it wrong, and he just wanted to be 482 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: a standout, and so at a time in the eighties 483 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: and early nineties he was going to be that standout 484 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: with Fuck the Police. But maybe we too closely associated 485 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: his rapping in the way that like Chuck D of 486 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: Public Enemy, actually is that fucking guy right who believes 487 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: what it is that he is rapping about and has 488 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: always right been that rapper of thought. And so maybe 489 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: it fell on the rest of us that this motherfucker 490 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: has just been a performer that has played the industry, 491 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: played his fans, and this is who he is. 492 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: Maybe for ice Cube that was just the song man. 493 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: It was raw, like you you write a song for 494 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 2: Kesha and she's gonna say it and it's gonna be awesome, 495 00:30:58,040 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: And maybe that's all it was. For him. It was 496 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: just a song, you know, and and and it wasn't 497 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 2: you know, he's not as you say, He's not Chuck D. 498 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 2: He's not k R. S One. He's not one of 499 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: these guys who actually live that life or or or 500 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 2: live that progressiveness. He was just a guy singing a song. 501 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: He was just a guy singing a song, how fucking sad. 502 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: I want my money back, but I don't know I I. 503 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 2: I want a deeper dive into what's happening because the 504 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 2: other thing, Daniels, and you know, we're old enough and 505 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: black enough to have seen this. There is always the 506 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 2: like negro gets a bit of money and loses their 507 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: damn mind, right, Like, they get a bit of money, 508 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: and it's like, you know the black people who when 509 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: they meet the I R s for the first time 510 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 2: as an adult, it's wait a minute, what are these 511 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: tax I? Don't like these? Ronald Reagan told me, and 512 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: that that's how it happens, right, Like, It's not uncommon 513 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: for people of any race, color, or creed to get 514 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: a little bit more conservative as they get older and 515 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: get more money and start to try to figure out 516 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 2: how to keep it. That's not uncommon. This is just 517 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: the kind of extremist, extrema extremophile version of that, you know, 518 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: normal aging process. 519 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, Well, I'll just tell you breaking news. 520 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: Tore just said, good idea. I can't wait, So so 521 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: you know, folks who will have to wait and see 522 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: got Danielle. 523 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna be able to 524 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: read something like I don't want to read more about 525 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: what the hell is going on? 526 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, so well we'll see, we'll see what because I 527 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: have to, I have to tetch them like in the moment, 528 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: so we won't see. Uh, we will see uh where 529 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: that goes. But you know, you could be right for 530 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: a tour Ray, you know, I mean, for for a 531 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: tour Rade, this would be the interview I'd want to see. 532 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: But for ice Cube maybe that's the title of it. 533 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: It was just the song. We took it too seriously evidently. 534 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: As always, my friend Ellie Vistal, it is a joy 535 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: and a pleasure when you bring the bad news, but 536 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: you bring it with such passion and flair to WOKF. 537 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: I always appreciate you. 538 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. 539 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on wok F. 540 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: As always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, 541 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.