1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: I've never told you production of iHeart Radio. So before 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: we get into this, one very quick content warning where 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: you're gonna have some brief discussion of rape culture and 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: mental health. Nothing to you in depth, but just to 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: put that out there. And today we are talking about 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: laughter and the history of women laughing, the judgments around 8 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: women laughing, the feminist reclaiming of women laughing, and we're 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: also going to briefly touch on why we laugh and 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: what it could signal with all of that. Samantha, how 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: do you feel about your laugh? Oh? I hate it? Yeah, yeah, 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: my laugh gets it's really loud, so it's not super 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: loud that you can pick it out. But if it's 14 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: a dead silent moment, I don't just giggle. I do 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: a yelp first, and then it goes into whatever the 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: rest of the thing is. If I'm having one of 17 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: those moments where I'm having an uncontrollable laughter, I definitely 18 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: snort and I wease because I can't I can't breathe. 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: That's the level I am. So I hate hearing myself laugh. 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: And I've tried one time to really cultivate into being 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: like a girly cute laugh. I couldn't do. It, just 22 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: didn't happen. I was like, well, I am who I am? 23 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: So that there it is? What about you? Yeah? I also, 24 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: I will say I have mixed feelings about my laugh 25 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: because I feel like I don't have a very feminine 26 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: laugh either. But then that now that I'm older and 27 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: I think about that, I'm like, well, okay, what does 28 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: that say. We are going to talk about that in 29 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: a minute. However, I will say a lot of people 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: at our office are very complimentary of my laugh, and 31 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: it's very sweet of them, and it's I'm still very 32 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: self conscious of it, because I guess either way, when 33 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: you draw attention to something, it makes it put you 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: in your head about it. And this is one of 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: those episodes that as we talk about it, I'm very 36 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: so conscious as you laugh. Yes, I know, I know. 37 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we're going to talk about, 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: is like all these different reasons that we do laugh. 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: And I'm somebody that I laugh a lot. I laugh 40 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: a lot, and I think for anyone listening that is 41 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 1: no surprise. So my nicknames are Giggles, gigs, and bright 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: side because I laughed so much. But who calls you 43 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: these names? Because I've never heard this. I have other 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: friend anyone to say this to you, So just curious. 45 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: I have other friends, Amantha, but yes, you know you haven't. No, 46 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: you um and Samantha. You know my dungeons and Jagon's 47 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: character's name, one of them, her name is Her name 48 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: is gigs on Tank and you were very suspicious of 49 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: this name with that person tried to call me on 50 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: sky Paul was like, nope, I will not take your 51 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: dick pics. It was just me. It was just me. 52 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, I laugh easily for all sorts of reasons. 53 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: My mom used to joke my giggle box would get 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: turned over because I would just laugh and laugh and laughing. 55 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't stop laughing. And this is also one of 56 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: the things I get critiqued on the most as a host, 57 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and especially when I was a new host, I'd get 58 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: messages like, no one could take you seriously. You sound 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: like a little girl at a slumber party who's snucking 60 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: to her dad's like her cabinet. I remember that one 61 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: very well. A lot of specific like why did you 62 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: need to go all of those words? That was unnecessary, right, Yes, 63 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: I think it was. Yeah, a lot of really condescending 64 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: sexist language like that, especially like being a little girl 65 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. And nowadays I get those messages far 66 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: less because I feel like those people have left, those 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: mostly dudes, to be honest, have left. But I still 68 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: get really insecure about it anytime you do again, anytime 69 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: you do an episode like this, uh filler language is 70 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: another one where you could become more and more aware 71 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: of it, and it gets more and more like you 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: get more and more judgmental about it about how much 73 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: you do something. And I do want to emphasize every 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: time we do episodes like this, it's not some weird, 75 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: passive aggressive message to you, the lovely listeners, because you 76 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: are genuinely lovely. Um. And I honestly do get if 77 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: people laugh too much and that annoys you. Those always 78 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: you can just disengage. You don't have to listen to 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: something you don't want to drop to comment on it. Um. 80 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: But it does turn out there is a long history 81 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: of censoring and judging women's laughter. Actually really fascinating. I'm 82 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: very excited to talk about it. I will say the 83 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: same is true with tears when it comes to women. 84 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this and just any kind of 85 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: emotion show. There's a lot of judgment around it. If 86 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: you're having too much fun, then you're annoying. If you're 87 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: too sad about it, then you are you just can't 88 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: handle it too sensitive, exactly exactly. Both of them are 89 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: dismissed as you were being essentially a little girl, right, yeah, yeah, um, 90 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: But speaking of I just told you this story, you did. 91 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: I once was scalded at Universal Theme Parks in Orlando 92 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: for laughing too much by a fellow dressed as an elf. 93 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: I was. I've never forgotten it. It's really funny now 94 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: definitely dressed me down in front of a whole crowd 95 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: of people, right, that's the whole crew of you, right, 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: just having a good old time. And he just went 97 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: off to after all of y'all, Yeah he did. We're 98 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: laughing too much, and I it's not like we were 99 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: being drunk fools or anything. We just we're laughing and 100 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: having fun. Too much fun. How dare you add an 101 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: amusement park too much? Amusement? Too much? So I did 102 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: want to briefly touch on why we laugh, which, as 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: we discussed in the Why We Dream episode. It's still 104 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: kind of we're not totally sure, but as early as 105 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: three months old, babies, do you start laughing. There are 106 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: a couple of reasons that women and all of us laugh, 107 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: although there are some that are unique to women, which 108 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: we're going to touch on. To communicate camaraderie, connection, cooperation, joy, humor, sadness. 109 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: In response to an awkward or painful moment, people are 110 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: thirty times more likely to laugh in a group, which 111 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: demonstrates the social nature of it, which scientists think it's 112 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: a it's a big social thing of like communicating, right, 113 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: something about how you feel or how you vibe within 114 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: the group. I feel guess very contagious too. Oh yeah, 115 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: I mean we we've talked about that a little bit 116 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: when we were talking about Slumper parties and I was 117 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: saying that that game I would play, tell me ha ha. 118 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: The whole point was once somebody actually started laughing, you 119 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: would all start laughing. Yes, I think that's a big 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: part of like TikTok. Again, I'm talking about TikTok, but 121 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the videos that I've seen has been 122 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: something like contagious laughter or something along those lines. And 123 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: I will say, little baby giggles that are truly enjoying 124 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: life get vigo and sometimes uh for sure, but yeah, 125 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's hard not to at least smile if 126 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: somebody's really truly expressing joy, this joy just say so. 127 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: Laughter is believed to have potential health benefits, and I 128 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: think we've all kind of heard this, including as a 129 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: stress reliever, which is one reason for things like laugh yoga. 130 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this too because I was like, 131 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: my neighbor does crying yoga, but I'm not harder do 132 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: the laughing yoga, should ask The research suggests that people 133 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: who laugh more have a lower risk of cardiovascular illness. 134 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: It's interesting, yeah, and I think that goes in line 135 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: with a lot of things we've talked about where stress 136 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: does cause health issues. So if laughter is believed to 137 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: reduce stress, then it makes sense they would have at 138 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: least somewhat of an impact, maybe not a huge impact 139 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: on these other things. Recent studies have found that across 140 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: cultures and continents, people can pick up on fake laughter. Um. 141 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: These studies also found that fake laughter can be useful 142 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: in terms of continuing or facilitating conversation, so it's not 143 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: necessarily always a bad thing. Surveys have also found that 144 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: women prefer telling jokes to smaller groups of people, and 145 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: even more so small groups of women as compared to men, 146 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: who prefer bigger crowds to tell their jokes, and many 147 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: speculate this might be at least part of the reason 148 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: the women have no sense of humor thing got started 149 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: because men don't see women joke is often because they 150 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: prefer to tell jokes in smaller groups and more likely 151 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: to women, which I thought was interesting. Yeah, yes, um, 152 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: And then we did want to talk about the use 153 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: of laughter in flirting and also it's roll in rape culture. 154 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: So plenty of recent studies caught the public's attention claiming 155 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: that yes, humor is what women really want in men, 156 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: I love funny man, and yes this is heteronormative certainly. 157 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: In researching this, most of the top results were things 158 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: like what does it mean when a woman laughs? How 159 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: to tell if a woman is fake laughing? And one 160 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: of the reasons this is believed to be the case 161 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: is that in the case you will have fun with 162 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: this person, I will say I think we're about to 163 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: get into it. I had a very long sexist conversation, 164 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: meaning like he was being sexist now almost plushed him 165 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: in the face. Uh. Conversation with a dude about how 166 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: he knows that a girl likes him because he will 167 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: laugh at his jokes and appreciate what he says, and 168 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: to the point that I'm like, he made it seem 169 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: that women only laugh because of these reasons and all 170 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: women fake it and I had to look at them like, no, 171 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: that's not well, that's I think I made the conversation. Well, 172 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: that's more about you and how you're not funny and 173 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 1: you know this, so that is your radar and maybe 174 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,359 Speaker 1: you should work on your jokes and your personality. Yeah, 175 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: and we got into it. Yeah, I can see that, 176 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: but it reminds me off when we were talking about 177 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: the whole women can't have an orgasm thing, where it's like, 178 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: I think this might say more about you, but that 179 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: is that is a very we hear that a lot, right, 180 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: is you know women are going to laugh harder at 181 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: jokes that aren't funny from me, to show interest just 182 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: makes sense. But if what you're saying is I don't 183 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: have to be funny, it doesn't matter. It might be 184 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: a slightly different thing. Also, it may come to the 185 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: point and I have done this, and I'm sure when 186 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: we talk about it more, we would say I have 187 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: fake laughed it hopes to avoid a confrontation from you, 188 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: And so I'm just gonna pretend like I'm amused by 189 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: you and move on and really try to get away. 190 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: But I'm gonna be like, that's so funny, i gotta 191 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: do a thing over there. Yeah. Yeah, I think I've 192 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: told this story before. But one time I was in 193 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: college and somebody I was at a bar and somebody 194 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: grabbed my ass and I turned and laughed, and I 195 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: like backed the wave. I was laughing, and I like, 196 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: I look back on it now and I'm so ashamed. 197 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: But I'm also like, what else was I going to do? Right, 198 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm surprised the ones that defends mechanism and be like okay, 199 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: but oh god, okay. Yeah. But the I think it 200 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: was within the past two years that study came out 201 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: and said, you know, women, I think it might have 202 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: been specific to the UK, but it was very Uh. 203 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: It caught a lot of headlines everywhere where. He's like, women, 204 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: funny nous is the most important trade or the most 205 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: attractive trait or whatever, And they do think that's because 206 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: it's a signal that you can have fun with someone, 207 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: you can out laugh with someone. Um as always with 208 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: those studies, though it's you know, social things like that 209 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: are hard to quantify. For sure. I like laughing with 210 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: a person, for sure. That's also true after this, Yes, 211 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: many of learning articles advised women how and when to laugh? 212 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: Do you attract men? And yes, this how to laugh? 213 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. If you look at words 214 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: used to describe men's laughter, you'll see a lot of 215 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: words like boisterous or wow or like you know, from 216 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: the gut or from the stomach, while for women it's 217 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: a lot of times whords like tittering, bell like giggling, 218 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: a lot smaller and like quote dainties ounds. And that 219 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: kind of goes back to what we were talking about earlier, 220 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: where I've got a bunch of different laughs, but I'm 221 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: generally a pretty loud laugher as well, and for a 222 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: while I did feel like I needed to contain it 223 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: and quiet it down and control it more and be 224 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: more quote lady like with my laughter, which is interesting 225 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: but okay. Conversely, the male fear of being rejected and 226 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: even laughed at by women is something that comes up 227 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot in conversations around rape culture, and this is 228 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: not a new thing. Ma B. Phelps testified in a 229 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: New Haven divorce case quote, she laughed at her husband 230 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: and he knocked her senseless. In a man allegedly blew 231 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: himself up with dynamite after a woman refused his proposal 232 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: marriage laughing at him. The Baltimore Son wrote the man 233 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: quote had a dynamite bomb with him and threatened that 234 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: if the woman refused him, he would blow himself to pieces. 235 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: She laughed at him, and he went to the stone 236 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: yard a block distant and killed himself. In nineteen o three, 237 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: Alice Hindegar was murdered quote with a monkey wrinch because 238 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: she laughed at a man when he pressed her to 239 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: marry him. I think that's more to say about men 240 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: and fragile egos more so than the laughter. But yeah, 241 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: I've definitely seen where for women, You're correct, it is 242 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: either seen as being really condestantingly like giggling like a 243 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: little girl, or being seen as a witch chickling and 244 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: or you know, trying to bully someone and or demoralize someone. 245 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: It's one or the other, it seems, it seems so. 246 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen o five, Virginia Woolf wrote about women's laughter 247 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: quote light lightning. It shrivels them up and leaves the 248 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: bones bear. And of course Margaret at what's famous quote, 249 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: men are afraid that women will laugh at them, and 250 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: women are afraid men will kill them, which again yes, uh. 251 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Dowds survey the men in question found that women 252 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: report their greatest fear is rape and murder, while men's 253 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: greatest fear is being laughed at. And I've heard this 254 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: a lot actually, And then Helen Rowland wrote, a man 255 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: will forgive his wife for committing robbery or murder or 256 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: breaking the tin commitments, yet threatened to leave her for 257 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: laughing at the wrong moment. Yeah, and it is. You 258 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: can see, like I think of seeing many things recently, 259 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: even where if a woman laughs in this defense, then 260 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: they are like, first of all, what are you laughing at? 261 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: And then somehow abused Yes, yes, um. And we're gonna 262 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: get into this more in a minute. But it's very 263 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: different how we judge women and men historically based on 264 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: laughing at the wrong moment. And I, you know, we 265 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: just had Halloween and I just watched practical magic, and 266 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: that's why Jimmy hit Dilly in Practical Magic because she 267 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: laughed at him about a doughnut. It's like, oh, the 268 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: research and true life coming together. I will say, I'm 269 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: now thinking about it. I knew the one that I 270 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: could win an argument with my brother was to laugh 271 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: at him really and it would anger him to no 272 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: end and I would just walk away. We're ready something 273 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: to bounce on me. Don't real fights Like it wasn't. 274 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: It was right at each other. But like that's I 275 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: remember that as thinking like, this is almost going to 276 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: bother him. Here we go. Yeah, it has been, and 277 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: it's very effective as a tool defiance, and we're going 278 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: to get into that more too. Um. But I've definitely 279 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: had that thought as well. If I get in a 280 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: bigger argument and I'm like, you know, really burn this 281 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: person up if I start laughing. They're saying, right, yeah, 282 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: And that's part of the as we've discussed before, using 283 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: comedy as this sort of political satire and weapon in 284 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: that manner. And that's one of the things which is 285 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: a good segue into what we're talking about next, which 286 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: is trauma and laughing in the face of like something 287 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: that's painful or dark for me. Is easier to handle, 288 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: especially news if it's presented in the kind of a 289 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: satirical or funny way, just because it's so often is 290 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: pretty grim. Pretty grim. But yeah, as we discussed in 291 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: our Trauma mini series, laughter is sometimes utilized as a 292 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: coping mechanism in the face of trauma and grief. I 293 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: know it's definitely a coping mechanism for me. There wasn't 294 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: as much information as I thought there would be out 295 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: there on this, but I did find some articles that said, um, 296 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: laughter promotes resilience in the face of stress and illness. 297 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: It is something that you know, historically people have used 298 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: to almost defiantly, to reclaim joy in the face of 299 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: all these horrible circumstances. And I mean, when I think 300 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: about it as someone who does laugh a lot, like one, 301 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: that's sort of my that's how I am. And two 302 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: it is a way of being like, Okay, I can 303 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: I can still find something to laugh at, or it 304 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: can still be in what for me is normal and 305 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: for me laughing is pretty normal. But it's also like 306 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: I just like I've said a lot, I feel a 307 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: lot of pressure and I've been socialized a lot to 308 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: make people happy and to kind of be that person 309 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: that shears people up, and that's hard to let go, 310 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: even in the face of right or maybe maybe even 311 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: especially in the face of when you're trying to hold 312 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: on to something of of like hard things of grief 313 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: and trauma and you're just trying to find like something 314 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: from your quote, like I like to call it the 315 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: before and after of mind, before of what who I 316 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: felt like I was then and and then and all 317 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: this stuff with trauma, and you feel like all your 318 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: foundation is shaken, and I would just try to grab 319 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: onto these like pieces and deal with it that way. 320 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this previously and now that this 321 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: is an actual scientific statement, but I know this is 322 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: a very to me as a person on the outside 323 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: seemingly middle child syndrome to keep the piece, to keep 324 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: the happiness, and you are a meddle child, So like 325 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: that none of that is too surprising, a but thin 326 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: like another part of that when you're talking about your 327 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: own trauma and and the fact that you laugh at 328 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: your response, um, and I do too. I do too. 329 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: I actually make sarcastic jokes, which we're gonna get into 330 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: just a second. But the fact that many people respond 331 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: when they specifically are talking about their own trauma, which 332 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: is what we were talking about it. When this episode, 333 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: we were like, let's do this episode because I was 334 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: very angry because we did get a critique on one 335 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: of our reviews, because I keep making the stupid mistake 336 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: of looking at the reviews. Most of them are so 337 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: kind and so beautiful and thank you so much. But 338 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: the few that come in and said negative, I'm like, 339 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: why do you even take the time, Like, just go 340 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: ahead with the one star and move on. I don't care. 341 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: None of the things that you're critiquing us for we 342 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: can change. I can't change this about myself. Sorry. If 343 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: any can't change this about herself. Sorry. But one of 344 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: those was about, like you are laughing doing serious stuff. 345 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: You'll get get over this is so childish type of thing, 346 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: and we, hey, we've already told you at the very beginning, 347 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: this is how we respond. We probably said it in 348 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: that episode. Whatever episode you're responding to, because we talked 349 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: about a lot of traumatic things us be will be. 350 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: You're also not laughing at other people's trauma. You're literally 351 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: talking about your own experiences, and your response is to 352 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: giggle to try to handle it. And just try to maintain. 353 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: And again, I think one of the things that infuriate 354 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: me in any of those comments or any of these levels, 355 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: is this is what helped us survive. Why would you 356 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 1: come in here and try to take that away when 357 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: obviously that is a strength for us. You may not 358 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: see it for that way, You may not see it 359 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: for yourself, and you may be able to handle it 360 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: on a whole different level. I don't know. But if 361 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: it's not hurting you, it's not hurting us, and it's 362 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: something that can keep us on a steady way without 363 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: completely going overboard in whatever route. Uh, And that could 364 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: be unhealthy. Why is it bothering you? Why is it 365 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: bothering you? And I think that just angers me too 366 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: so much that we have to criticize other people's handling 367 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: a trauma when it's not unhealthy. Yeah, And I mean 368 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: we talked, We did talk about that a lot, especially 369 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: when we talked about grief as well, and how people 370 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: feel like grief should look a certain way and if 371 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't look that way, then you're not you're not 372 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: grieving enough for you're grieving too much, You're grieving the 373 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: wrong way. And I think you know, as was pretty 374 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: much everything we talked about. It's hard to unpack and 375 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: untangle all of the social factors that go into why 376 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: you do a certain thing. I think that for I 377 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: imagine a lot of women who use laughter as a 378 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: coping mechanism of it for anybody, but for women, there's also, 379 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: like I'm sure I know you've experienced this as well. 380 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: When you do open up and you share something that's 381 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: really dark and really painful with somebody, it's clear they 382 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: are really uncomfortable, and then you say something funny or 383 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: something to lighten the mood because it's just silent and 384 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: it's obvious the other person doesn't know what to say, 385 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: and I don't fault them for that, Like sometimes there's 386 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: nothing to say, but you do. I'm somebody who's also 387 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: struggles with silence a loft time. So if it's like, 388 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: go silent, somebody's miserable, are like, oh wow, they didn't. Okay, 389 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: well let's flash then let's make this better. It's like 390 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: what you're I mean, in a much lighter way. It's 391 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: like when you're on an awkward day and you're like, 392 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: this is awkward. Let's laugh about it because it's really awkward, right, 393 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: I mean that is exactly so when we talk about 394 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: social work, I would talk about the fact, hey, you 395 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: don't want to hang out with a lot of social 396 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: workers if you do, if you're really sensitive and don't 397 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: have a dark sense of humor, because we are twisted, 398 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: like immediately this is the way we cope and we 399 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: have to joke about that. Is that are really inappropriate 400 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: and really like, yes, we outside of that rail, we're like, 401 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: this is really bad, we shouldn't do this. But if 402 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: we didn't, I think we would constantly be on like 403 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: a way of crashing and almost wanted to like, you know, 404 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: just go to sleep forever because because it is so 405 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: dark and it gets so dark, and because it weighs 406 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: on you so heavily, like there's nothing to do but 407 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: to make an obvious statement maybe inappropriate to those who 408 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: hopefully would understand, and just trying to move on because 409 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: it is so dark and so twisted that you can't. 410 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: If you can't laugh about it for just a minute, 411 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: then there's a whole Even though in your mind you're like, 412 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: we have to do all of these things, but I 413 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: need a minute. I need a break from the depth 414 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: and the darkness of this. Really really dark, really really 415 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: heavy situation to being able to be like, well, at 416 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: least sometime So and so didn't do this part too, 417 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: Like that's the caveat to it. And even though on 418 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: the outside they're like, holy crap, what why would you 419 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: do that, it's kind of like, well, because this is 420 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: how we survive and again when we're on in our 421 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: own trauma, whether it's to fill the silence, whether it's 422 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: to make other people comfortable, because as you don't know 423 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: what else to do, it is kind of the same things, 424 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: like people will get really uncomfortable with race stuff, and 425 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: instead of accepting the fact, oh you're racist, in my as, 426 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: it was like, you don't know how to act around 427 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: brown people. So this is what you're doing. I would 428 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 1: make jokes about myself in a manner I really shouldn't 429 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: have how to do that, but it's awkward that I 430 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: don't know what else to do but to make you 431 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: laugh and make myself laugh and hope this makes it better, 432 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: although it just spends into your racism and prejudice and 433 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: stereotypical ideas of me. So yeah, yeah, And I mean 434 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: that's a good point to make, kind of going back 435 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: to what you're saying a little bit earlier is you know, 436 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 1: we're laughing at our own trauma, are too, perhaps make 437 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: other people more comfortable with our own trauma. But that's 438 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: different than like making jokes you have no right to 439 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: be making right, right, very very very different or laughing 440 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: like I did read and this is complicated, and I 441 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: don't want to go into it now, but I will 442 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: mention it. I did read a couple of articles about 443 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: basically people grieving, but on the opposite ends of something 444 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: like perhaps somebody their son had killed somebody else's child 445 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: in a drunk driving accident and the mother of the 446 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: child that's i'd laughing at the funeral or something like. 447 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: That's a bit different than what we're discussing, right, I suppose, 448 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: like I understand it, but that's that's not the same 449 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: as what we're just going right now. And again, that's 450 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: what we were talking about, is that when it comes 451 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: to us processing our own trauma, and if it's not 452 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: to the point that it is hurting someone else. So 453 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: when I say processing on trauma, those who delve into 454 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: alcohol or go into some type of addictive personality trait 455 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: in our habit, that's a whole different conversation. I'm not 456 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: saying we encouraged that, but when we're talking about laughing 457 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: to process our own trauma, that's the whole again. How 458 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: is this hurting you? Why are you needing to speak 459 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: on it? And also why are you judging our own trauma? 460 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: Like that's a double leming on that in itself. Yeah, 461 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: and I do think it's interesting in something we've talked 462 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: about before, But you're in a public sphere, some of 463 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: those things get amplified because you're supposed to be even 464 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: if you're doing serious topics, you are supposed to be 465 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: entertaining in some way, um while also getting across education, 466 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: Asian occasional content. And when you're talking about something serious, 467 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,239 Speaker 1: that can be really tricky, and especially if you do 468 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: have your own trauma in your way, you act your 469 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: own trauma on top of that. Um. And that's not 470 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: to say there's been plenty of episodes where I feel 471 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: like there was hardly any laughter involved, but right, you know, 472 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: when when there's also that level of it, if you're like, oh, 473 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: this is too sad, no one's gonna listen to it 474 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: because all it is is sad. I've got to do something. 475 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: It's usually my episodes of like, so I want to 476 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: talk about this really bad thing, let's go, And I'm 477 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: sorry everybody starts like sitting in the corner of the dark. Yeah, 478 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,479 Speaker 1: And I think that's a a balance that is it's 479 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: really difficult to pull off. But I do like going 480 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: back to what I said where it's easier for me 481 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: to handle darker topics if there is some humor in there, right, 482 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's wrong or bad. Um. I 483 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: think there's a way to do it, in a way 484 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: not to do it, but I think it makes sense 485 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: that you need almost like a palate cleanser or something 486 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: to get stopped your heart from like just getting so 487 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: so sad and heavy that you don't want to take 488 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: in any more information, right, Yeah, which was all a 489 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: pandemic yazz either it is. We have so many examples 490 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: of it just here in this episode. I will say 491 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: one of my triggers actually is loud mail laughing. That's 492 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: something I've had to work with, but like really loud 493 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: that can get me interesting. There's a lot of triggers 494 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: like that. So again, dark humor has been shown to 495 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: improve mental health among those who participate in stressful jobs 496 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: like nursing and social work, and I tell you, we 497 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: lived off of dark jokes to the point that I 498 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: couldn't be around normal people because I realized I cannot 499 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: be socializing with people who do not understand what this is. 500 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: Because when I make a comment about a case that 501 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm going through and they gave me the blank stare 502 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: of horrified looks, and I'm like, oh, y'all don't know 503 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: anything about the okay, cool, I'm just I'm gonna sit 504 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: in the corner. Because yes, it takes. It's especially when 505 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: you have a job that you really delve into and 506 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: it impacts other people. So social services, nursing, teaching, it's 507 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: really hard not to see some type of or at 508 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: least having to cause inside jokes. I guess I having 509 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: to have inside jokes or such, which again not always 510 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: appropriate and I'm not And if it's racial any of that, 511 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: that's not what we're talking about at all. We're talking 512 00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: about human drama, human trauma, human darkness, that's what we're 513 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: talking about. It definitely, yeah, it definitely helps you just 514 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: to be able to wake up the next day. That's 515 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: where it gets down to. And there's a commanderate to that. Yeah, 516 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: that you have to have. Yeah. Yeah, and I think 517 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: I know with my nursing friends, I've heard a lot 518 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: about that of being during this pandemic and being a 519 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: stress reliever. But they've noticed like their humor has gotten 520 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: significantly darker during all of this. Yeah, I think we had. 521 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: I had a moment when I was working in CPS 522 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: investigating child abuse. I had several nursing friends and we 523 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: would just share war stories, talk about what was worse 524 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: to make ourselves feel better that their their job was 525 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: worse than our job. It was not ready. Yeah, yeah, 526 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: I can imagine. Speaking of We did briefly want to 527 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: touch on the film Joker with Joaquin Phoenix, just because 528 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: we were talking about the different perceptions people have of 529 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: men and women laughing when it comes to things like 530 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: trauma and that. You know that movie, And we're gonna 531 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: get circle back to this. But I know there's like 532 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: an able ism narrative there, because if you haven't seen it, 533 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of a disorder he has right that he's 534 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: he laughs, So yeah, it's called studo Bulbera effect or 535 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: p b A, and that's what he was dealing with. Yeah, 536 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: And I mean laughter is frequently a tool writers do 537 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: use in things things like that too indicate like like 538 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: villainous behavior. And then this one's got like also the 539 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: able ism there, this is actually something he's dealing with. 540 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: But just the way people reacted to that in that 541 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: movie versus us, you know, talking about our own trauma 542 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: just interesting. From what I remember from the movie, stress 543 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: caused him to laugh, and so people didn't understand what 544 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: was happening because I know, like stress, Like for me, 545 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: we talked about stress causes maybe really sleepy. Um, so 546 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: I guess it's similar to that effect. Yeah, mhm, yeah. 547 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: I mean obviously I don't want to be compared to 548 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: the joker necessarily, but um, just yeah, I mean, we 549 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: it's I guess we know that laughter is a response 550 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: to stress and trauma. It does make people uncomfortable sometimes, 551 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: they think, but it seems that the reaction you get 552 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: when it's women is much more like dismissive. I guess, 553 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: either dismissive if it's trauma, or like angry if it's 554 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: related to dating. Yeah. Just you know, I feel like 555 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: we understand that this is a thing, but we're judging 556 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: people for it, and we're judging differently based on gender, 557 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: which is interesting. So we did want to go into 558 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: a history of women laughing, because, as we mentioned in 559 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: the in show, there's been a long history of judging 560 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: women's laughter and sometimes even criminalizing it. In ancient Greece, 561 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: Aristotle ward against the pitfalls of laughter, writing quote, most 562 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: people enjoy amusement and jesting more than they should adjust 563 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: as a kind of mockery, and law givers forbid some 564 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: kinds of mockery. Perhaps they ought to have forbidden some 565 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: kinds of jesting. God seems to be on the same page. 566 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: In the Old Testament, laughing at God was not at 567 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: all tolerated, and even when God laughs, it's an act 568 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: of hostility and fury, not a good thing at all. Um. 569 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: There's one is where a group of boys laugh had 570 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: a profit. So God six two she bears on them 571 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: and kills like almost all of them. I believe right. 572 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: They're making fun of the profit, though, that's a little different. 573 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: And then throwing things and taunting him and trying to 574 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: hurt him. So that's a little bit different than just 575 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: laughing at just saying so. During the Middle Ages, women's 576 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 1: laughter was viewed as unruly course and something associated with 577 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: the body and not at all lady like, as in fact, 578 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: the whole te covering of the mouth is what you 579 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: would often see represented um. Women were advised not to laugh, 580 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: that it was uncouth, despite that female characters and literature 581 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: ranging from to the sixth century often engaged in laughter, 582 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: and Lisa Perfetti's work Women and Laughter in Medieval comic Literature, 583 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: she argues that laughter was a way to talk back 584 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: to the views around women at the time. That jokes 585 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: and humor around women which made women laugh also illustrated 586 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: to the limited movement agency women and had at the time. 587 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: Often female characters were written by men as targets to 588 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: be made fun of, mocked, and kept in their place. 589 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: In this way, women who made Joe's and laughed could 590 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: be viewed as somewhat subversive. And I will say, like 591 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: I think about lay Miss, the whole thing is a 592 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: pretty big tragedy. But the two funny characters was the 593 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: woman who was essentially seen as a hag and then 594 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: her husband who they were both crooks. Essentially, we're the 595 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: funny bit to the entire movie. Everybody else was like, 596 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, drama, drama, yes, but those characters are seemed 597 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: being funny or made fun of right English philosopher Thomas 598 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: Hobbs hu'd laughing as a political tool and weapon. He wrote, 599 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 1: quote men laugh at the infirmities of others, for when 600 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: a jest is broken upon ourselves, of friends, and whose 601 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: dishonor we participate, we never laugh thereat. In puritanical New England, 602 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: a woman laughing could be downright dangerous, sometimes believe to 603 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: be a sign of her covenant with the devil, and 604 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: particularly during times of prayer are fasting. One such woman 605 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: was Susan Martin. Records indicate that she was executed not 606 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: only for breastfeeding Satan with her quote which is tits, 607 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 1: but also for laughing at quote such falling during her trial. 608 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: So I believe they told her this was her charge 609 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: and she laughed. So they're like a which reminds me 610 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: of The Bitch, which we did a feminist movie Friday On. 611 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: But the way that movie ends is she sort of 612 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: accepted being a witch and being in Satan's covenant, I guess, 613 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: and she's laughing, Yeah, I know, like in several of 614 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: the movies I've seen I can't remember, Like laughing equals 615 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: to orgasm as well, Yeah, which is also a no no, 616 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: as well, having a fit in hysteria and all that 617 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: is somewhat related to laughter as well of those terms 618 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: in itself, so that's interesting. Two women in Chicago were 619 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: arrested in eight nine for laughing, and in the words 620 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: of a local newspaper, it says the trouble was caused 621 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: by a new joke on the kissing bug. I love it, 622 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: what's the kissing bug? With the arresting officer claiming, and 623 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 1: then they both lasted so loud they awoke the entire neighborhood. However, 624 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: the presiding justice was not impressed or concerned. Well, I 625 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: guess it certainly is a joke to arrested person for laughing, 626 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: and both women were discharged after that. But wow, wow, 627 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: I want to know this joke about the kissing bug. 628 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: I need to know about this kissing bug. I know 629 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: etiquette manuals around the nineteenth and early twenty centuries instructed 630 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: women to limit their laughter, that people would look down 631 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: on them for it, and that it was even potentially 632 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: dangerous a sign of female hysterics. A nineteen o two 633 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: obituary ran with the headline death from laughter, and it 634 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: described a woman who visited the theater to quote enjoy 635 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: a comedy and instead furnished to tragedy after she became 636 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: convulsed with merriment. Merriment even better. Yes, After a romantic 637 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: suitor told a woman a joke in nineteen o seven 638 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: about dentistry, she couldn't stop laughing until she was given 639 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: some anesthetics. When she came to, she said she couldn't 640 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: remember the joke, and out of caution, no one told 641 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: it to her. However, several articles claimed it went us follows. 642 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: A man went to the dentist to have a tooth 643 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: pulled and it hurt oh doctor. The patient said, if 644 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: only humans were born without teeth. The doctor replied, they 645 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: are you know, classic classic. Here's another example from a 646 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: widow named Anna Farrer attended a dinner party where someone 647 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: shared a funny joke with her. She started laughing so 648 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: hard she was quote unable to stop the laughing paroxysm, 649 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: and quote died before a physician could be summoned. The 650 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: joke wasn't printed for safety. Can you imagine maybe this 651 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: person were told that joke really killed well, they didn't 652 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: want anybody else to read it and have the same reaction, 653 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: which reminds me of the money five on skit The 654 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: Joke that Kills, the killer joke. Oh oh. It was 655 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: like a World War Two skits where the British Army 656 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: just like, after months and months of practicing and assembling 657 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: a joke in many pieces so people wouldn't read it 658 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: because it's dangerous in German, they constructed the perfect killer 659 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: joke and they would go around. The soldiers would go 660 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: around shouting it at German officers because they didn't understand 661 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 1: it so it wouldn't kill them, and the German officers 662 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: would laugh and then dropped dead. But then at the 663 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: end of course they're like, well, I want to hear this, 664 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: what's so good about it? And they say it in 665 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: English and then they all die as well. Nice. Yeah, 666 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: so that kind of reminds me of the Mary Poppins 667 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 1: scene where they're all laughing and they start floating because 668 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: they can't help talking about someone floats away and they 669 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,439 Speaker 1: all tell jokes to each other. H I haven't seen 670 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: that movie in so long, but yeah, that's so a 671 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: lot of these advice columns and cautionary tales were coming 672 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 1: out as more and more women were entering the public 673 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: sphere and attending more public forms of entertainment more regularly. 674 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: So just so you know, ladies, laughing can kill you 675 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: exactly better not do it better? Not now, of no, 676 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: there are cases of men laughing at women, typically white women, 677 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: in areas where their patronage was valuable, and men laughing 678 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: at them made them feel unsafe and being arrested or 679 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: ejected from public venue, so that did happen as well. Interestingly, 680 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: women may have participated in highly derided sobbing clubs at 681 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,280 Speaker 1: the time, and men's laughter was often seen as something 682 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: that was just are good in the face of their 683 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: sniveling as it was called um and particularly laughing at 684 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: entertainment geared towards women, which was incidentally where men were 685 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: most likely to be punished for it. Again, because people 686 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: didn't want to lose the people who the patrons who 687 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: were paying to see these things, and in Puritanical America, 688 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: laughing at a tragedy was viewed as something akin to 689 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: a sin that was real bad, a mind frame that 690 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: carried over into more modern times kind of relates to 691 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: some of the stuff we've been talking about. During the 692 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: late nineteenth century, there was a spate of articles claiming 693 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: that across the country men were laughing blasphemously during church services, 694 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: and some of them did get arrested. You know, I'm 695 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: thinking more and more about laughter being used like it's 696 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: a sin, Like when you see demonic possessions, they're often laughing. 697 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: And then I know that there are several diagnosis where 698 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: they talk about inappropriate laughing because it doesn't fit the uh, 699 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,239 Speaker 1: the emotions. So therefore maybe they are ABC and c's 700 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: a kind of sociopathic diagnosis, which I started thinking about that. 701 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: Uh people. Yeah, so where we are now in our 702 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: more modern times, women's laughter is the subject of penalization 703 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: and also a feminist thought. M hmm. So just in 704 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, a Code Pink protester named Desiree Ferou's sorry 705 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: if I mispronounced that, was arrested after laughing during the 706 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 1: confirmation hearing for Jeff Sessions to become Attorney General after 707 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: a Republican senderator said that Sessions had quote an extensive 708 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: record of treating all Americans fairly under the law. I'm 709 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: not gonna lie. I would laugh too. She potentially faced 710 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: a two thousand dollar fine and up to a year 711 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: in jail, but the judge ultimately ruled that laughing was 712 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: not adequate grounds for guilt. In that quote, it was 713 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: disconcerting that the government made the case in closing arguments 714 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,239 Speaker 1: that the laughter in and of itself was sufficient. Yes, 715 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: it is disconcerting. The government motion filed against her claimed 716 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: that she was arrested because she sought to impede and 717 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: disrupt the senator Sessions confirmation hearing by drawing attention away 718 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: from the hearing itself and directing it instead toward the 719 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: defendant perception of the nominees racist views, policies, and voting record. 720 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm not laughing because of the way he said, but like, 721 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: but it did, and all she did was laugh. So 722 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,319 Speaker 1: for you to take that as that, I thinks again, 723 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: says more about you, whoever filed these charges, than it 724 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: is us about her. Professor of law at the University 725 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: of Michigan, Catherine A. McKinnon, wrote of this incident, criminally 726 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: charging and potentially sentencing Mrs Ferus for a brief, spontaneous 727 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 1: injection of political laughter as disruptive when it, at least 728 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,439 Speaker 1: so clearly was not looks like an overly thin skin 729 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: reflex reaction to a woman appropriating what is usually a 730 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: masculine form of power, ridicule, public humulation by humor, and 731 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: in this case, political speech against racism. Of note, the 732 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,760 Speaker 1: Trump administration was a repeat defender and punisher of women 733 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: mocking Trump. Um, take their reaction to Melissa McCarthy impersonating 734 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: Sean Spice, arity flipped out so angry, they were so 735 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,879 Speaker 1: angry of all of s and l made me laugh. 736 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: But that's also true. Yes, this is somewhat reminiscent of 737 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: a scene from the nineteen two film A Question of Silence, 738 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 1: when three women laughed loudly and brashly at their own 739 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,479 Speaker 1: murder trial, mostly at the premise presented that they lived 740 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: in a post sexist society that were on trial after 741 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 1: exhuberantly murdering a shopkeeper who harassed a female shoplifter. The 742 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: Question of Silence is a reference to the idea that 743 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 1: the marginalized don't have a voice in the face of it, 744 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: continued injustices. So defiant laughter is one way of sticking 745 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,279 Speaker 1: it to the man and disrupting the status quo. Like 746 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: I said, I knew what would make my brother angry, 747 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: and that was just laughing. Yeah, yeah, this movie sounds interesting. Um, 748 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: I've never heard of it, but I want to check 749 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: it out now. And there have been cases of women 750 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: being arrested and jailed for disrespecting the dead throughout history 751 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: as well. And of course there is and has been 752 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: intersections with racism, homophobia, and able is um. In black 753 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: newspaper The Washington b wrote, it is against the law 754 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: for a black person to laugh at a policeman in 755 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: the street. The following year, black woman named Louisa Roberts 756 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: was fined two dollars and quote patrolman Hutchinson arrested her 757 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: for assassing some white women. Ralph Ellison wrote of a 758 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: Southern mythology around the quote laughing barrel public barrel that 759 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 1: black people were meant to put their head in when 760 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,279 Speaker 1: they fell at a laugh coming on. In his essay 761 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: and Extravagance of Laughter, he wrote of the power of 762 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: laughter quote grotesque comedy, out of the extremes to which 763 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: whites would go to keep us in what they considered 764 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: to be our place. These attitudes and discrimination continue to 765 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,399 Speaker 1: this day. In a group of eleven black women were 766 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 1: ejected from a Napa Valley wine train for laughing too loudly, 767 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: which led to the hashtag uh laughing Wild I remember 768 00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: this because they are made at this huge scene just 769 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: because they were enjoying their time, to the point that 770 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: even other women were like, what are they doing there 771 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: at a bachelorette party? Nothing's wrong? Why are you kicking 772 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: them off? Right? Yeah, it's a wine train tour. Everybody's 773 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: drinking and giggling like that's not a bad thing. That 774 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: means they had a good time. I mean, why, yes. Right. 775 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: At the same time, there's also a long history of 776 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:33,080 Speaker 1: using black laughter and minstrel shows to reassure white audiences 777 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: that there was no resentment or danger from black folks, right, 778 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of that conversation of trying to 779 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: make white people feel comfortable. So therefore, I'm uh, you know, 780 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,959 Speaker 1: deprivading comments about being Asian to make the white people 781 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: in the room okay, in to the point that I 782 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you're one of those Asians. Cool, That's 783 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: exactly what he said to me, And I was like, 784 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: what I think that was the moment I realized what 785 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: I did. I was like, oh, I have given them 786 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: permission to be outwardly racist to me. Crap, right, yeah, yeah. 787 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: And then there's also been a lot of conversation and 788 00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,280 Speaker 1: judgment around the gay voice and relatedly the gay laugh 789 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: that could be and probably will be its own episode, 790 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: but that is also a piece of this. And then yes, 791 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: going back to the joker, there's able is um going 792 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: on as well in this conversation, as well as a 793 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: very clear anxiety of people laughing at the wrong moment, which, 794 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,439 Speaker 1: as we've discussed throughout this whole episode, there's so many 795 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 1: reasons for why that might be. Right. Yeah, So all 796 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: of this points to a history of censoring women's laughter 797 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: and the laughter of marginalized groups. It also points to 798 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: a history of people finding joy in the face of 799 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: trauma and discrimination and depression. Um. Even thinking about feminism specifically, 800 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: there's numerous examples of you know, yes, women aren't funny, 801 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,439 Speaker 1: feminist buzz, can't you take a joke? Things like that. 802 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: As as with so many things we talked about, it's 803 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:10,399 Speaker 1: such a double edged seeing because if you laugh then 804 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 1: you might get punished for laughing at the wrong time 805 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,239 Speaker 1: or offending a man or hurting his ego. If you 806 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,280 Speaker 1: don't laugh at their jokes or what they find funny, 807 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: then you're a bust killer. You can't take a joke? 808 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 1: Are your cold and frigid or whatever. It is. One 809 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: thing we didn't get into that we'd love to hear 810 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: from listeners about is cultural differences in laughing. There are 811 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: a lot of articles around all of this out of 812 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 1: Indian specifically Bollywood, which was really interesting, including this quote 813 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: laughter strips the object of power and gives power to 814 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: the one who laughs. When stand up comics make fun 815 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: of someone or something, their jokes are in effect criticism 816 00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: and mockery, highlighting a social issue or a family reality. 817 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,919 Speaker 1: There's so much to impact with all of this, because 818 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,799 Speaker 1: again there is a line like there are jokes you 819 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: can make and jokes you can't, or definitely should it. 820 00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: But yes, it is like a way to express defiance 821 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: in the face of oppression, for sure, And I think 822 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: that's why it does. It does have this history of 823 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: being punished when marginalized people do it at what people 824 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:20,080 Speaker 1: in power see as the quote wrong time. Yeah, all 825 00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: of that into so much as always I was, this 826 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: is a fascinating one to research. Yeah, and and listeners, 827 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,800 Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. Um, any cultural 828 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 1: differences you've noticed or gender differences you've noticed, and you 829 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: think at all like that, you can email us our email, 830 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: Stuff Idia mom stuff at i heeart media dot com. 831 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at moms to podcast 832 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: or Instagram and Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as always, 833 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,160 Speaker 1: you are super producer, Christina, Thank you and thanks to 834 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,240 Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I Never Told You the production 835 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcast on my Heart 836 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: radio is the Heart Radio, ap Apple podcast or wherever 837 00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows