1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here, I've got to tell you 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: about an incredible podcast I firmly believe you will not 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: only love, laugh, but learn from. It's Zone seven with 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: my longtime friend and colleague, forensic expert Cheryl McCollum. As 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: a crime scene investigator with years of experience in the system, 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Cheryl brings a treasure trove of knowledge to Zone seven, 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: diving into cold cases with an incredible perspective that only 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: someone in the business could bring. She brings on incredible 9 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: experts directly from her Zone seven network. Follow Zone seven 10 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: on your favorite podcast app, and without any further ad you, 11 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: here is my friend, Cheryl mcallum. 12 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: Y'all, you don't always get the call when you work 13 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: cold cases. It could be five years, ten years, twenty 14 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: five years before you get that call. But honey, the 15 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: family of Melissa Wolfenberger got that call. Joining me today 16 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: is Melissa's mama, Norma and sister Tina. Norma and Tina 17 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 2: welcome to his own seven. Thank you, sir, honey. It's 18 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 2: been twenty five years for you and Norma, For you 19 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: and I, it's been seven seven years since you walked 20 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: into an event where I was speaking and you had 21 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: an eight y ten picture of Melissa, and you walked 22 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: up to me and said, my daughter was heading in Atlanta, 23 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: will you help me? 24 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 3: That's exactly what I did. 25 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: Well, you've been fighting a long time, and you've been 26 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: talking to a lot of people, taking that eight x 27 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,839 Speaker 2: ten picture with you everywhere. So I want to give 28 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: just a little background. In nineteen ninety eight, Thanksgiving is 29 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 2: the last time you spoke to your daughter Melissa. Right, 30 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: what happened? What happened after that? 31 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 4: What happened after that is I didn't hear anything else 32 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 4: from her. I mean she didn't call Christmas, you know, 33 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 4: after she had asked for a specific gift for Christmas. 34 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 4: She didn't want anything that was storeball. She wanted something 35 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 4: that I had to look for and find to be 36 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 4: able to give to her. 37 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: I had to. 38 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 4: Look through a lot of pictures to find a good 39 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 4: one that I liked and thought that she would like. 40 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: And then when she didn't show up, she didn't call, 41 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 4: I got worried. 42 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: All she wanted was a picture of her and her grandfather. 43 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 3: Right, he called it Papa. 44 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: And she didn't come get it. The sentimental gift, right, Tina, 45 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: when did you first know that Melissa was missing. 46 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 5: When my dad walked into the restaurant where I worked 47 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 5: at and said, where's your sister. I said, I don't know. 48 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 5: You hadn't talked to her. He said no, he said, 49 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 5: she didn't. You know, we talked to her Thanksgiving Day, 50 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 5: Christmas Day. She didn't come. She didn't even call your 51 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 5: mama for her birthday. And that right there was the 52 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 5: sign because Listen always called mama. 53 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: So that's when now the whole family by February is 54 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 2: word sick yep. So April of nineteen ninety nine, a 55 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: skull is found in the middle of Avon Avenue and 56 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: your mama. Normally you're watching the news. 57 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 4: I was, because I didn't know where she was. If 58 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 4: they said anything about a body being found any anywhere 59 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: on any of the local channels, I would always stop 60 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 4: and watch the news. And when I sat down and 61 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 4: watched the news, you know, they said it was a 62 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 4: mail and I said, okay, And then I thought, well, 63 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 4: Avon Avenue is I think on the north side of town, 64 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 4: because you know, in going around two eighty five, I 65 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 4: saw an exit that had Avon Avenue and I said, well, 66 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 4: that's north side of town, not in the same area, 67 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 4: so I kind of brushed it off. 68 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: So you were somewhat relieved that that wasn't your child, right, 69 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 2: and then the skulls identified as a Caucasian mail So 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: we move on. Now, something else happened in your life 71 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: that was difficult. At this same time, your husband, Carl 72 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 2: is arrested. 73 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: Four years later. 74 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: Four years later, so Carl is arrested for several murders 75 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: that occurred in the seventies. Right around that same time 76 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: frame that Carl is arrested, he decides, Hey, I'm going 77 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 2: to tell the truth. I'm going to cop to it. 78 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell him I did it. I'm going 79 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: to keep Norma out of it. I'm going to just 80 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: go into court, raise my hand and confess to all 81 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 2: of it. 82 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 3: And that's exactly what he did. 83 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: In three separate courthouses in three separate counties. Yeah, so 84 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: I'm just going to state very clearly, Carl Patten is 85 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: a convicted killer. Carl Patten has admitted it. He's never 86 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 2: lied about it once they came to him. Carl and 87 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: I have been exchanging letters since twenty twenty one. When 88 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: I started on this case, it was important for me 89 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: to have contact with Melissa's father, mother, and sister to 90 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: develop an accurate victimology. Through those letters, I learned a lot. 91 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: I learned a lot about Carl. I learned a lot 92 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: about the Patent family. I learned a lot about Norma 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: and Tina. I learned about their loyalty, their love for 94 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: each other, and their unwavering devotion to get justice for Melissa. 95 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 2: So Carl goes to prison and he says, you know what, Norma, 96 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 2: I'm here. I'm stuck here. I can't search for Melissa. 97 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 2: I can't do anything to try to help find her 98 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 2: or solve the situation for y'all as a family. So 99 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 2: he reaches out to the person that arrested him and 100 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: he says, hey, you caught me after twenty five years. 101 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: You must be a pretty good detective. Will you help 102 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 2: look for my daughter? And to his credit, that detective 103 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 2: said yes. So he goes out and he says, huh, 104 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: there's a skull unidentified and it's literally feet from the 105 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: front door of where Melissa's husband works. So he goes 106 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: to the Atlanta Police Department and says, are you this 107 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: is a mail and they get the dental records and 108 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: what happens Norma. 109 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 4: On March seventeenth, two thousand and three, he pulled up 110 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 4: in my yard and I saw him when he pulled up, 111 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 4: and I walked outside on the porch and he come 112 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 4: up standing there talking and he told me she had 113 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: been identified and what had happened to her. And I 114 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 4: just busted out screaming and yelling, and my two oldest grandkids, 115 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 4: which were Tina's, came out to see what was what 116 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 4: was wrong, what I was upset about. 117 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: Tina, you are literally walking down the street and you 118 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: get a phone call from a friend that says, hey, girl, 119 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: of you watch the news. 120 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 5: Oh no, it wasn't a friend, it was my ex husband. 121 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: Oh well, let me change that now because I don't 122 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: want that out there in the universe. Okay, okay here, 123 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: But that's the important thing, because again, even an ex 124 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: husband would reach out to you because this was going 125 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: to be so devastating for you, and he knew it. 126 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: So what does he tell you? 127 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 5: I said, I don't think Mom wanted to be the 128 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 5: one to notify me like that, so he took it 129 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 5: upon himself to do it. 130 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: I was too upset to make that call. 131 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. 132 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: So now you have confirmation that Melissa was beheaded and dismembered, 133 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: because you know from the news there was a skull 134 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 2: found in April, but that same June of nineteen ninety nine, 135 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: four more trash bags were found containing her arms and 136 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: legs and no norma. That to me is an unbearable 137 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: scenario to know that that is your baby. 138 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: It was, and it's been. It's been hard. 139 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: Well it'll forever be hard. And Tina, you and I 140 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: have talked a lot, and I know you. I know 141 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: you now pretty good. And you know, what do you 142 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: do with it? You're now the surviving child. Your dad 143 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: is in prison, your mom is destroyed, and you are 144 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 2: now in the middle trying to help make your mama 145 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: work through it, get through it, survive it somehow. You've 146 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: got your children, You've got Melissa's children, You've got your dad, 147 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: and you have been the one to me that has 148 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 2: glued this family together. 149 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 3: I've tried. 150 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 2: It's not easy, oh, I know. I remember the phone 151 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: call when you told me you were headed somewhere to 152 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: burn some stuff down. So, and those are just natural feelings. 153 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you get frustrated, you get angry, of course, 154 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: and especially when things just seem so unjust. She did 155 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: not deserve what happened to her exactly. And I have 156 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: said over over and over and I will say it 157 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: again right here. The sins of the father have nothing 158 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: to do with what happened to Melissa. And here's the 159 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: deal about Carl. I'll say it again. Carl's in prison. 160 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: Carl deserves to be in prison for what he did. 161 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: But what happened to Melissa she did not deserve in 162 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: any way whatsoever. 163 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 5: Nope, she sure didn't. 164 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: And with what Carl did, that doesn't mean that something 165 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: should be able to happen to Melissa and we not 166 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: get justice for her. There should never be a killer 167 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: walk in the streets free. None of us should be 168 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: okay with that. 169 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 5: Nobody should be okay with that. 170 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: So the reality is now, y'all. Now the Atlanta Police 171 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: Department knows they have a homicide of Melissa Wolfenberger. That's 172 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: a completely different scenario. So they start to look at 173 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 2: the facts. Did her husband report her missing, did her 174 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: family report her missing? When was the last time she 175 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: showed up at work? When was the last time she 176 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: showed up anywhere she was supposed to be court, a 177 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: doctor's appointment to vote? Where was she was there any 178 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 2: sighting of her. Was there any phone call, any letter, 179 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: anything since nineteen ninety eight And the answer was no, nothing. 180 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: And so her husband said, well, I saw her. She 181 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 2: was walking down the street and she told me she 182 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: was leaving to go to California to start a new life. 183 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 2: And then he said she left over another man. Then 184 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: he said she left because she was going to be 185 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: doing some counterfeit identification cards and passports. I mean, he 186 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: has said several things that just don't make any sense. 187 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: And here's the bottom line. Would Melissa have ever left 188 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 2: her children. 189 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 4: No way on this earth would she had left those 190 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 4: two kids. When I had my oldest tooth down here. 191 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 4: She helped me every day take care of them, and 192 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 4: she loved them just as much as she did her own. 193 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 4: She bought the year that Timberly started school. Well, let'sa 194 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 4: got clothes for her to wear the school. There is 195 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 4: no way, there's no way on this earth that she 196 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 4: would ever leave those babies. 197 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: Every time there's a case where there's small children, and 198 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: in this case they were one in two years old, 199 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: and you hear somebody say, well, she just took off. 200 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: She just left. She wanted a new life. That doesn't 201 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: ring true. And in this case, she didn't have a car, 202 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: she didn't have any money to speak of. She didn't 203 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 2: take any clothes, she didn't take any jewelry, she didn't 204 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: take anything that meant something to her. And I'm going 205 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: to tell you again the only thing that how wanting 206 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: for Christmas was a photograph of her and her grandfather. 207 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 2: This was a family oriented child. And I'm going to 208 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 2: tell y'all something. Can you be two things at once? Yes, 209 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: you can be a sex worker and a fantastic mother. 210 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 2: You can be a doctor and a roller derby queen. 211 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 2: You can be a preacher and a breakdancer. I mean, 212 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 2: you can be these things that seem polar opposite that 213 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 2: are not, if that makes any sense. And when you 214 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: look at Melissa's life, there is no way if she 215 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: wanted to leave Christopher. Listen, y'all. We can leave a man, okay, 216 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: because we can get another one. May not be a 217 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: good one, but we can get another one. But we 218 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: don't leave our children because we can't get those children back. 219 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 5: Anytime Melissa left him, she wanted to take the kid. 220 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: She always went back to the children. And when she left, 221 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 2: he hounded her and hounded her to come back, tracked 222 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: her down, but not but not in nineteen ninety eight. 223 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 4: He tracked her down one time, but he didn't track 224 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 4: her down in December when Stick left. 225 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 2: That's right, he didn't have to. That's right, he didn't 226 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 2: have to. He knew where she was. Same reason he 227 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: didn't call you asking you have you seen her? He 228 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: didn't call Tina, have you seen her? He didn't call work, 229 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: He didn't call anybody. She was even on probation at 230 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: the time. He didn't reach out to the probation officer. 231 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: He had called them before to tell them stuff about her, 232 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: but he sure Lord didn't after nineteen ninety eight, Sure didn't. 233 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: Y'all have twenty five years, y'all had some roadblocks. Y'all 234 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: had no activity at times. Y'all have changed detectives over 235 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: and over. People retire, they transfer out, they get promoted out. 236 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: You've had different ADA Assistant District Attorneys. You've had to 237 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: reintroduce yourself to the ada's and reintroduce Melissa to make 238 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: sure they knew who she was. You've had to go 239 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: through the change of the DA. Y'all have gone from 240 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: Paul Howard to Fannie Willis. 241 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: Thank God for that. 242 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 4: We tried to get an appointment with Paul Howard, and 243 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 4: we're told that we couldn't even make an appointment without 244 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 4: her file being on his death. 245 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 5: We couldn't even get past the front door. 246 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 3: Cheryl. 247 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: And then a high school friend of mine, Donna Jones, 248 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: meets Tina. Yeah, and you know, Donna and I have 249 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 2: known each other since nineteen seventy nine, and me and 250 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 2: Donna and Walt went to college together. We've just had 251 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 2: a great time. And she's a tremendous person. So when 252 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: Norma walked in, I noticed her right away. And this 253 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: was like a kind of a formal dinner type event, 254 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: and normal walks in, and she's got like Bermuda shorts 255 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: on and a tank top and a straw hat, like 256 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: she just came off the beach. It was hot, it 257 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: was hot, it was absolutely hot. But I noticed her, 258 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: and I noticed she was hugging an eight by ten frame, 259 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: so I knew it was somebody's mama and they were 260 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: either missing or murdered. And again when she walked up 261 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 2: to me, she said, this is my daughter, Melissa, and 262 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: showed me the picture. Beautiful, looked so kind, looked so sweet. 263 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 2: In the picture, she was and she said she was 264 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: beheaded in Atlanta. Will you help me? And I said, well, yes, 265 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: I mean, how in the world do you say no 266 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: to that? And I said, you know, come to my 267 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: office next week and let's talk about it. And that 268 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: was twenty seventeen, and she came the very next week, 269 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: and y'all, she brought a case file. It took about 270 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: two hand trucks to bring it in, I think. And 271 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 2: she walked in and she sat down and she said, look, 272 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: I know you've already said you would help me, but 273 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: there's something I got to tell you before we go 274 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 2: any further. And I said okay. And she said, my 275 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: husband is in prison for murder and I helped him. 276 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: And if that's okay, will you still help me? And 277 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I don't know that anybody has 278 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: ever been more honest with me in their life, because 279 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 2: I'm in a business where people lie to me pretty 280 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: much every day all day. And so I told her, 281 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: of course, and then she starts talking about her husband 282 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: and I went, wait a minute, is your husband the 283 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: Flint River Killer? And she said yes, and then she said, 284 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: and he hates that moniker, he hates that nickname. So 285 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: after that meeting, we decided to put together an action 286 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: plan and we went to work and we had several 287 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 2: experts that joined us, so willingly donated their time and talents. 288 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: And it's the first time in history that a convicted 289 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: serial killer became an actual victim of crime reached out 290 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: to law enforcement for help, who then reached out to 291 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: a nonprofit for help, the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute. 292 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 2: Then what happened was a new DA was elected and 293 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: Fannie Willis became the DA of Fulton County. Before she 294 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: took office, she agreed to meet with me and I 295 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 2: laid out five cases that I thought she could solve 296 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: relatively quickly. They were all, of course, cold cases. I 297 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: should have said that one of them was Melissa Wolfenberger. 298 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: And Miss Willis told me that she was going to 299 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: put together a cold case unit, and she knew who 300 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 2: she wanted to head it up, and then she was 301 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 2: going to put together a task force and wanted me 302 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 2: on it. The first Assistant District Attorney that she put 303 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: over the cold case unit was Adrian Love. And when 304 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: I tell y'all, Adrianan Love hit the ground running and 305 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 2: went to work. She met with me and Karen Greer 306 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: and Norma and Tina and Dwayne Thompson and Trey Sargent 307 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 2: out at the crime scene. She walked it. And here's 308 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: the other thing. She knew the whole history. She knew 309 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 2: the whole family history. She knew where Karl was, she 310 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: knew what had happened in the seventies, she knew everything. 311 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: When she went over to the car and your mama 312 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: was sitting in the passenger seat, and they just talked, 313 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: and your mama was able to give her the victimology 314 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: as only a mama can. And she watched that dog work, 315 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 2: trace work, two of her canines. Doctor Thompson was out 316 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: there with the metal detector. Karen Greer was out there 317 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: covering it. And I'm going to tell you Karen's involvement 318 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: has been invaluable. She has stayed on this case for 319 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: twenty years, maybe the whole twenty five, but I know 320 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: for a fact twenty and she has been devoted and 321 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 2: she's just been on this thing, is all I can 322 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 2: tell you. And then we had another big push and 323 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 2: another big person to come up and help. Nancy Grace said, 324 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 2: I want to cover it. I won't end Norma, do 325 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 2: you remember the day I called you and said, Nancy Grace, 326 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 2: won't you on her show? 327 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I said really, or something along that line. 328 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 2: No, I think it was really. I think that's exactly 329 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: what happened. And we knew at that point we're going 330 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 2: to get some national attention. And when that sort of 331 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 2: thing starts to happen, the first thing I pray about is, 332 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 2: please somebody come forward. Please somebody hear about this and 333 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: remember something, or maybe call and say, hey, the police 334 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 2: never interviewed me, but here's something that I know because 335 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: in cold cases that happens all the time. So you 336 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: and Tina again, put it out there. Buck up and 337 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: get your emotions all twisted, because this is not you know, 338 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: this is not easy for y'all to talk about. You'll 339 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: feel it the whole day. It, you know, brings everything 340 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 2: to the surface, so to speak. But there you are. 341 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: And honey, Nancy Grace did what only Nancy Grace could do, 342 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: and she stirred that pot. Baby. It was awesome. And 343 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 2: then she comes to me and she says, you know, 344 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: you need to do a podcast, and I'm like, I 345 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: ain't got time to do a podcast. I don't know 346 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: how to do a podcast. I'm not even sure what 347 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: one is. And she said, well, I'll help you, and 348 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: I'm gonna get you some folks. So, along with Karen 349 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: and Trace and a ton of other experts came on 350 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 2: and we did I think a seven or nine part 351 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: series on Melissa's case, the series that we did on 352 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 2: Zone Normal. We of course had you and Tina, We 353 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 2: had the original detective Detective Calhoun. We had several of 354 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: the experts Karen Greer, Tray Sargent, Dwayne Thompson, Joe Scott 355 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: Morgan just unbelievable talent and expertise to help. And there 356 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 2: have been other people like Betsy Ramsey and Leslie Bailey 357 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: and doctor Joni Johnson and Joe Jackalone and Lisa Ribakoff Mooney. 358 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: All of these people have said, yes, I want to help, Yes, 359 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 2: I see that we can get this into the finish line. Well, 360 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: then when once Nancy Grace got involved, she took us 361 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 2: to Crime Con. We did a live Wine and Crime there. 362 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 2: Then we did a live Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 363 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 2: right from the stage. Well then that led us to 364 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 2: Dateline because there was a producer there that I talked 365 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 2: to and I was like, look y'all, need to cover 366 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 2: this case because I think there's some folks out there, 367 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: and we shaken up trees, somebody's gonna be able to 368 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: come forward. From the series that we did on Zone seven, 369 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 2: a witness came forward. Now that by itself, to me, 370 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: was amazing that Nancy had covered it, Dateline had covered it, 371 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: Crime Con had covered it. All of this information is 372 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: out there, and that led this person to Zone seven. 373 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: Once they heard every single episode, they reached out to 374 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: me on social media and said, are you still covering 375 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: Melissa's case? Well, honey, I couldn't type back fast enough. Yes, 376 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 2: And then they said that they had some memory of 377 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: the way that Christopher treated her at a party once. 378 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 2: So now I'm thinking, y'all, this thing actually just got 379 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: some new legs. So I reached out to Detective Shepherd, 380 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: gave him the information, and he was on it. I 381 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 2: mean immediately he talked to the person, interviewed the person, 382 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: and then he went back and interviewed Christina, Melissa's daughter. 383 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: And then some dominoes started to fall pretty quick, didn't they. 384 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 5: Yep? 385 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 2: All right, Tina, talk about that a little bit. What 386 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: started to happen pretty quick? 387 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 5: Oh boy, let's see we went to Crime Con and 388 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 5: then every six from Orlando. It's been pretty much NonStop. 389 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: And people keep asking. So from Crime Con, we got 390 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: a call from the Georgia Writers Museum and they said, 391 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: can y'all come here and do a wine and crime 392 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 2: as well, which we did, and Joe Scott Morgan joined us. 393 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: Now I'm going to talk about Norma just a minute. 394 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: She loves her from Joe Scott Morgan, y'all, and when 395 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 2: he walked into that room. For those of y'all that 396 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 2: are fans of body bags, you're making the right decision, 397 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: But you need to be a fan of jo Scott Morgan. 398 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: He is one of the most comforting, calming, reassuring people 399 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: I've ever met. Compassionate, he is so compassionate. The day 400 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,199 Speaker 2: that we got the call that Christopher Wolfenberger has been 401 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: arrested for the murder of Melissa Wolfenberger, I thought Joe 402 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 2: Scott almost had a better reaction than Norma because he 403 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: knows Norma, he knows Tina, he has worked this case. 404 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: He went through the autopsy like nobody else could have 405 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: done it. He gave her information, not as an expert 406 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: to a crime victim. He spoke to her parent to 407 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: parent with as much love and concern as I've ever 408 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 2: seen in my life. So they love his voice, they 409 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: love his the way he just presents himself with such 410 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: confidence and such joy. But the reality is, I think 411 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: that y'all knew y'all had a true advocate in him. Yeah, 412 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: we do, you do, absolutely so. Again, he came over 413 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 2: to Atlanta from Alabama and was with us, and then 414 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: the Hamptons who done it up in New York called 415 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 2: and said, can you present the whining crumb here? So 416 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 2: you literally have people from all over the country, from 417 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 2: the five thousand people that were at crime con from 418 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 2: all over to New York to Alabama. I mean, you've 419 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: just got people invested in what happened, and most importantly, 420 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: the unjust of it that everybody wanted to see somebody 421 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: in custody for this murder. Norma, how are you feeling 422 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 2: right now today? 423 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 3: For lack of a better description, on Cloud nine. 424 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 4: This has been a busy couple of days, But I 425 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 4: just I feel like I'm a lot younger than what 426 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 4: I am. I'm walking a little faster and getting things done, 427 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 4: and you know, it's just been it's been amazing. 428 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: And Karen Greer. 429 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 4: When I found when I found out he had been arrested, 430 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 4: and I called you and you were out of town 431 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 4: and found out Karen Greer was out of town. Well, 432 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 4: Karen Greer called me yesterday to check on me to 433 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 4: see how I was doing after the press conference. 434 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: And see, I just want to say something. I love her, 435 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: I adore her, and this is one reason why. And 436 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: I have said over and over and I'm going to 437 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 2: say it again. As good as she is on TV, 438 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 2: she is better when that camera's off. She It's the truth. 439 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: She is lovely and kind and general. But I'm going 440 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 2: to tell you something. Her heart, she leads with it. 441 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: There have been more than one time where she and 442 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: I have been at a scene and Melissa's crime scene 443 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 2: was one of them, and she would turn to me 444 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: and she would say, I am no longer a reporter 445 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 2: and you are no longer a crime scene investigator. We 446 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: are two mamas standing here. And that's how she feels. 447 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 3: Cherah. 448 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 4: When we were at crime Con last year and she 449 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 4: I was sitting on the side, she was probably fifty 450 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 4: feet away from me as she walked by, and I 451 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 4: glanced up and realized that it was her and I 452 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 4: yem back, Karen, and she turned around and she thought 453 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 4: what she where she was headed and come back up 454 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 4: to me to talk to me. 455 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: Well, she's been in this thing. I mean, she's been 456 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 2: in it longer than I have, and just stellar and 457 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 2: again leads with her heart, and she's devoted to Melissa, 458 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: she's devoted for justice. And I can't say nothing, but 459 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 2: I just love her. I adore her, I respect her. 460 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: I got nothing but accolades. And she always looks flawless. 461 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: Good lord, So y'all had her, y'all had Nancy Grace. 462 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: Now let's talk about that spitfire for a minute. You know, 463 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 2: Nancy is another one. You know exactly how she feels. 464 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: She can't hide it. And I know when we did 465 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 2: her show, she puts it out here, she puts it 466 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: out there. 467 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: But you know. 468 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: She she feels. And here was the really touching thing 469 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: she called me after Crime Stories of Nancy Grace, when 470 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: she broke the news about the arrest, and she said, 471 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, this is the anniversary of Keith's murder. No, 472 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: and she said it, she said, it's always just under 473 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 2: the surface. Anything can make it rise to the top. 474 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: It could be a song, it could be you know, 475 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: his favorite food. It could be a memory. But when 476 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: this kind of thing happens, you know, she feels it 477 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: on more levels than most people because she has lived 478 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: losing a loved one to murder. So she's connected to 479 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,959 Speaker 2: y'all in an extraordinary way. So again, her heart on 480 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: this thing is pretty clear now, Tina, you at the 481 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: press conference were extraordinary. And in that moment when you 482 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 2: could have been selfish and you could have talked all 483 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 2: about your sister, all about your mama, all about you 484 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 2: and everything that y'all have done and your dad to 485 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: get justice for your sister, you didn't do that. You 486 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: took the opportunity to thank other people, which you did 487 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: not have to do in that moment, and then you 488 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: did the most extraordinary thing that I've seen. Through your 489 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 2: tears and your heartbreak, you stopped to help other people 490 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 2: tell everybody what you did. 491 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 5: You know, it was like I had so many emotions 492 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 5: going right then, just like I still do. 493 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 3: I don't know. 494 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 5: I'm happy one second, and next second I'm in tears, 495 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 5: and then I'm happy again, and then my heart's breaking again, 496 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 5: like it's back twenty five years ago. You know, I 497 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 5: have tried so hard to be strong for my mom. Especially. 498 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 5: It's a little different with Dad because Dad's strong. But 499 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 5: I can see Mom and how she is suffering because 500 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 5: her and Melissa were so close. But I thought really 501 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 5: really hard to get this done for my sister. But 502 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 5: I couldn't have done it by myself and you and 503 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 5: Nancy Grace and Karen Greer. I love all three of y'all. 504 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 5: I cannot get up there and not say that if 505 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 5: it wasn't for y'all, we wouldn't be standing there because 506 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 5: we wouldn't be If Donnah had to introduce. 507 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 3: Me to you. 508 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 5: Mom would have never met you, we would have never 509 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 5: met Nancy Grace, we would have never met Karen Greer. 510 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. And I had to tell 511 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 5: them people, thank you. And I had to tell Atlanta 512 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 5: Pde thank you, even though you know at times I've 513 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 5: been like dag, I'm get off your butts, guys, but 514 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 5: you know, oh. 515 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I had to calm her, had to calm her 516 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 4: down quite a few times. Her and her Pearl too, 517 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 4: her dad. It was I had both of them. I said, 518 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 4: y'all got to be patent this think. 519 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 2: I but Mom and Dad do not have pay Oh yeah, 520 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: I've had I have called her a Carl Junior more 521 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 2: than once. 522 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,479 Speaker 5: So even better, I have a customer that grew up 523 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: with my daddy that cost me hot Shot Junior. There 524 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 5: you go, Hotshot because that's my daddy's nickname. 525 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 2: So Tina, again, I appreciate that so much. You will 526 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 2: never know what that meant to me personally, just to 527 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 2: hear you say that, and it really touched me. And 528 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: Huck and Caroline were like, Mom, that was so crazy. 529 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: She would say that you know about you, but it 530 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 2: means a lot to me. You have no idea. But 531 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 2: what I'm asking is what you did in that moment, 532 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 2: which was so selfless, when you tried to protect other people. 533 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 2: What did you say from that podium? 534 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 5: You know my sister was it was she suffered with 535 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 5: domestic violence. 536 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 2: Chris abused her. 537 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 5: I don't know how many times I saw her with 538 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 5: bruises and scratches and handprints around her throat. And you 539 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 5: know I could not get her to listen to me 540 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 5: as much as I tried, and I mean I tried 541 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 5: really hard. Mom and Dad have no idea how much 542 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 5: I tried to get Melissa away from Chris behind doors. 543 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, and I do not want 544 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 5: my sister's case, her death, her murder, as brutal as 545 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 5: it was, to be in vain, to be for nothing. 546 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 5: There's got to be a reason why it happened, and 547 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 5: to me, it's to help other people, to get other 548 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 5: domestic violence people out of what they're in. 549 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 2: Amen. I believe that, and I believe you and Melissa 550 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: are going to be able to save a lot of lives. 551 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,760 Speaker 5: Tell me Melissa's story, maybe somebody will actually listen and realize, Hey, 552 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 5: this could be me, this could be my mama, this 553 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 5: could be my sister, this could be my daughter. Come on, y'all, 554 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 5: wake up. Domestic violence is real. It's not a lie. 555 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 5: It's not a made up thing that Hollywood made up. 556 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 5: It's true. It's real, and it happens every day. 557 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: Amen. Normal. Where are you headed when we hang up? 558 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 4: As soon as we hang up, I'm headed to Coastal 559 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 4: State Prison where Carl is to be able to sit 560 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 4: down and tell him about this week and everything that's 561 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 4: going on, because he needs to hear it. He's had 562 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 4: some help issues recently and he needs to something to 563 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 4: hold on to. 564 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 2: You know, this case got started because a detective went 565 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 2: to the prison, met with Carl and promised Carl he 566 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: would help him. And one of the things that touched 567 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 2: me so much is we got the call on Tuesday, 568 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 2: but Carl wasn't going to be able to call home 569 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 2: till Thursday, so he wasn't going to know there was 570 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 2: an arrest. But ab Calhoun, the original detective, I. 571 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 3: Called him to tell him about the arrest. 572 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 2: Tell us what he did. 573 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 4: He was the fourth person I called, and when he 574 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 4: had said the phone, he said, I'm sitting here waiting 575 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,280 Speaker 4: on your call. 576 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: I said, okay. So anyway, on the conversation. 577 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 4: He asked me about Carl, as he did quite frequently, 578 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 4: and I told him Carl didn't know, and he wouldn't 579 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 4: know till Thursday because that was when he was going 580 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 4: to call home. 581 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 3: He said, I know some higher up. I don't know. 582 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 4: I don't have the number, but I know who to 583 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 4: call to get the number. I said, okay, So anyway, 584 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 4: we ended the conversation and he got on apparently got 585 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,720 Speaker 4: on the phone. When Carl called me Winsday, he told 586 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 4: me that that man went to Coastal State Prison. They 587 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 4: called him out at eleven o'clock on Wednesday morning and 588 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 4: told him that the rest was made and he and 589 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 4: he screamed and jumped up and down as loud as 590 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 4: I did. 591 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 2: Unbelievable. So that, to me is just that full circle 592 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 2: moment where you have a detective that started this investigation 593 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 2: and he saw to it again, father to father. He 594 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 2: knew Carl needed to know, he had a right to know, 595 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 2: and he made that happen. So I will forever be 596 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 2: grateful for Detective Calhoun. 597 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 4: I called him back after I talked to Carl, and 598 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 4: I told him. When he answered the phone, he said, yes, ma'am, 599 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,439 Speaker 4: and I said, I just wanted to tell you thank you. 600 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 4: And I told him when they got down there, and 601 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 4: he kind of wondered why why I waited to Wednesday morning, 602 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 4: but I figured that was because of the storm they 603 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 4: had down there this week. 604 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, yeah. I texted him as well, and when 605 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 2: I texted him, just how grateful I was and how 606 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 2: just touched I was by that. I don't even know 607 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 2: what you would call it. 608 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 3: He told me. He said, ma'am, you don't ever have 609 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 3: to thank me. 610 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 2: That's again, that's the kind of caliber of folks that 611 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: have been involved in this case. I think throughout, and 612 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 2: I just thought that was a lovely sentiment. Oh sorry, 613 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 2: that kind of got to me a little bit because again, 614 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 2: you know, just father to father, he wanted to, you know, 615 00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: make sure that happened for him. 616 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 5: Just like he did when it first all happened. He 617 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 5: was the one to go down there and tell Dad. 618 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 2: When Melissa was first identified formally, Detective Calhoun drove down 619 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 2: to the prison to make sure that he told Carl 620 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: in person what had happened to his child, and the 621 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 2: fact that he would then make sure that Carl knew 622 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 2: twenty five years later that an arrest had been made. 623 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just part of this story that I 624 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 2: think gets to me and chokes me up because again, 625 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: at that point, just like Karen Greer says, that's just 626 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 2: a dad talking to a dad. All right, Tina Norma, 627 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 2: anything y'all want to say that I haven't asked you 628 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 2: or you want to be sure y'all say. 629 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 4: I just want to say that the men and women 630 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 4: in Atlanta PD that go out there every day and 631 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 4: have to deal with this sort of stuff and they 632 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 4: are just amazing and they. 633 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 3: Put their hearts and souls into it just like we do. 634 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 2: Amen, Right, on Tina. 635 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 5: We've seen a lot of changes over the past twenty 636 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 5: five years, and there's been a couple of changes that 637 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 5: I wasn't too happy with. There was a lady that 638 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 5: we had and I didn't care for her too much anyway. 639 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 5: But we got lucky when we started out with Calhoun, 640 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 5: and we've gotten lucky because now we have another Calhoun 641 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 5: that's Shepherd. But Shepherd was really, really, really being very 642 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 5: kind to us Tuesday when we got to that police 643 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 5: department and he said, if y'all have any questions for me, 644 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 5: y'all ask, and if you think of it after you 645 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 5: leave and need to ask, just call me. Well he 646 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 5: kept that promise because we called him on something else 647 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 5: later on and he really stepped up. So I just 648 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 5: want to say thank you, Shepherd. 649 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm going to end Zone seven the way that 650 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 2: I always do with a quote. Chris's days are numbered, 651 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: and I pray I'm there to see the look on 652 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 2: his face when his world comes crashing down. On that day, 653 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 2: Melissa will be smiling down from heaven and her children 654 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 2: and grandchildren will know the truth. She did not desert 655 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: her children. She was taken away from them. June sixteenth, 656 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, A grateful father, Carl Patten. I'm Cheryl 657 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 2: McCollum and this is Zone seven.