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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody. Are we up? I think we are.

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Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure in terms of what the holding

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Speaker 3: screen says here, so I'm just going to talk as

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Speaker 3: if we are actually live. It is the first day

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Speaker 3: of the Donald Trump administration, I guess, first full day

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Speaker 3: here after Donald Trump's inauguration yesterday as the forty seventh

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Speaker 3: president of the United States. Later in the day, Crystal,

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Speaker 3: he took to both Capital wann Arena and the Oval

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Speaker 3: Off to sign hundreds of executive orders. We are expecting

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Speaker 3: more executive orders later today as well as a press

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Speaker 3: conference around four pm. They say that they're doing a

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Speaker 3: big infrastructure project. So for those of you who've been

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Speaker 3: in politics for a while, you may remember something called

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Speaker 3: Infrastructure Week under Donald Trump back in two thousand and seventeen,

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Speaker 3: and I guess the Infrastructure Week is back. It became

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Speaker 3: a joke, but maybe it's not a joke anymore, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's a maybe it's officially real. But what we're

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Speaker 3: going to do here is that we're doing a live

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Speaker 3: stream because things are moving very quickly and our ability

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Speaker 3: to be able to prepare a show would be dated.

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Speaker 1: By the time that we were even able to put out.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to react to some of the news

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Speaker 3: from yesterday and then just generally be live with all

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Speaker 3: of you. Kind of a fun new format here to

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Speaker 3: just go through everything with everyone about what's coming in

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Speaker 3: and obviously react to the big stories, the big actions.

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Speaker 3: We do not have a White House Press secretary scheduled

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Speaker 3: for today, but Trump will apparently not only be doing

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Speaker 3: a Trump will not only be doing a press conference

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Speaker 3: on this infrastruction thing you said, it, will be taking

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Speaker 3: questions as well. So we'll hope to see if he

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Speaker 3: took a lot of questions yesterday. So what do we

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Speaker 3: have today?

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Speaker 2: A lot of stuff And by the way, there's something weird,

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Speaker 2: a little weird going on with like our monitor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure what's happening to look confused.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why we may seem a little like where

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Speaker 2: are we and what are we doing?

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Speaker 4: But in any case, there are a bunch.

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Speaker 2: Of executive orders to go through, a lot of drill,

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Speaker 2: baby drill, a lot of immigration. So we'll break some

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Speaker 2: of the highlights or low lights, depending on your perspective

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Speaker 2: of those down for you. Shelby Talcott is going to

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Speaker 2: join us Fantastic reporters. She's going to be taking a

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Speaker 2: look at the January sixth pardons, which was quite you know,

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Speaker 2: across the board, not just non violent January six offenders,

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Speaker 2: but you know, people who were beating cops as well,

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Speaker 2: and then there were a few that were a sentence commutations.

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Speaker 2: So she's going to break that down for us. She's

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Speaker 2: also going to break down for us the news about

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Speaker 2: the VIK is officially out. At Doge was the first cut.

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Speaker 2: Many people have made the stoke at this point, but

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Speaker 2: he was the first one, yes.

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Speaker 3: Because he's been banished to the hinterlands, to the provinces

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Speaker 3: from the Imperial capital.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: There's a Politico article that suggests Elon Religious was kind

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Speaker 2: of like annoyed with him even before the like saved

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Speaker 2: by the Bell Boy meets World.

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Speaker 4: Yes, screed, so that was the excuse to push him aside.

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Speaker 2: But in case, we'll get Shelby's thoughts and what she

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Speaker 2: knows about all of that. Update on the what appears

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Speaker 2: increasingly to be a temporary ceasefire in Gaza. Trump weighed

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Speaker 2: in on this himself and said he has little confidence

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Speaker 2: that that ceasefire will be able to hold.

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Speaker 4: So we'll take a look at that.

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Speaker 2: We're also taking a look at the whole TikTok situation,

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Speaker 2: which is interesting. We touched on it a little bit yesterday,

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Speaker 2: but wanted to dive into that more because it is

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Speaker 2: I mean, it says so much about Trump and Republicans

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Speaker 2: and Democrats and who had a wield power in this era,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. So we'll take a look at that. We're

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Speaker 2: also going to take a look at these Trump and

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Speaker 2: Millennia shitcoin. Some pastor who was involved in the inauguration

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Speaker 2: decided to also get in on the action and drop

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Speaker 2: his own meme coin.

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Speaker 4: So wild thing's happening there and.

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Speaker 2: A little Elon awkward gesture controversy that has the Internet

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Speaker 2: and the media and all the people are talking about this.

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Speaker 4: So and I will take a look.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess we can debate it because I'm pretty

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Speaker 3: sure I know what you're gonna say.

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Speaker 1: But okay, all right, I'm pretty sure I know what

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Speaker 1: let's go say. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything that original to say about it,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, so be it. I guess that's what the

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Speaker 3: people want about Elon and Nazism, et cetera. So everyone

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Speaker 3: get ready for a Roman salute history lesson. If that's

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Speaker 3: what people want. If we're going to do it, let's

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Speaker 3: do it. Let's start off with Donald Jump.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, I apologie everybody. I just want everybody to

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Speaker 1: know this. I got like four hours of sleep last night.

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Speaker 3: I was out very very late, and as people know here,

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Speaker 3: I'm a baby about my bedtime. Okay, I need my

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Speaker 3: eight hours. And so I've got two cups of coffee

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Speaker 3: and die coke here. Bear with me with the slips

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Speaker 3: and everything.

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Speaker 1: Just for live streaming, we can.

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Speaker 4: Call Donald dump all you want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that's right. I'm going to start signding like Kyle,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: But anyways, let's go with Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Producers,

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Speaker 3: can we please queue up the clip? Just come in

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Speaker 3: my ear and tell me whenever it's ready. Trump was

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Speaker 3: in the Oval Office for a long time yesterday, actually

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Speaker 3: much later than he was originally scheduled to signing multiple

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Speaker 3: executive orders, some of them are posturing, some of them

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Speaker 3: will take effect immediately. For one of the more high

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Speaker 3: profile ones as opposed to January sixth, was this.

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Speaker 1: Order on birthright citizenship.

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Speaker 3: So let's take a listen if we can to what

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Speaker 3: happened in the Oval Office whenever he was signing that.

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Speaker 4: This next order relates to the definition of birthright citizenship

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Speaker 4: under the fourteenth Amendment of the United States.

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Speaker 5: And that's a good one. Birthright, that's a big one.

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Speaker 6: What about that one? That one life could.

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Speaker 5: Be So you think we have good grounds, but you

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Speaker 5: could be right. I mean, you'll.

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Speaker 3: Find out.

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Speaker 5: Ridiculous with the only country in the world that does

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Speaker 5: this with birthright, as you know, and it's just absolutely ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: But you know, we'll see. We think we have very

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Speaker 5: good grasp.

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Speaker 3: All right, So what we have there from Trump was

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Speaker 3: one of these birthright citizenship orders.

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Speaker 1: It was part of a slate of executive actions.

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Speaker 3: Guys, can we go ahead and put the Trump executive

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Speaker 3: orders in New York Times tear sheet please up on

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Speaker 3: the screen so I can just read through a bunch

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Speaker 3: of these. So, for example, one of the more important

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Speaker 3: ones on the federal workforce was freezing a federal hiring.

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Speaker 3: This is a resumption of a policy that was held

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Speaker 3: under the first Trump administration. One of them was to

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Speaker 3: grant top security clearances to the White House staff. There

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Speaker 3: was also some like I said, some symbolic stuff, stripping

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Speaker 3: John Bolton and a few others of their own security clearances.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all the people who signed on to that, like

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Speaker 2: Hunter Biden infamous right. Oh, it has the whole marks

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Speaker 2: of Russian disinformation, stripped of their security clearance.

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Speaker 3: I didn't even know that those people got to keep

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Speaker 3: their security clearance, which is ridiculous. Probably should terminate on

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Speaker 3: your end of government service whatever. On immigration, we are

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Speaker 3: going to quote bar asylum for people or newly arriving

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Speaker 3: at the border, move to end birthright citizenship. That's the

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Speaker 3: one that we just shows you that is going to

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Speaker 3: face constitutional challenge within the hour and will quickly make

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Speaker 3: its way to the United States Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: It is actually an interesting question.

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Speaker 3: Because the way that the executive order is phrased is

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Speaker 3: specifically trying to target people who are in the country illegally.

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Speaker 3: So it gets to this question of temporary visa status

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Speaker 3: and the citizenship of the people who are born in

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Speaker 3: the United States from those parents.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I've talked to a bunch of different lawyers. The odds

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Speaker 3: generally seem to be against Trump. It would probably have

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Speaker 3: to change a constitutions like the census, you know, the census.

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Speaker 3: The way we do the census is ridiculous, but it

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Speaker 3: literally says in the Constitution that you have to do

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Speaker 3: the census that way.

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Speaker 1: Nobody seems like they want to change it. So there's

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 3: There is the declaring migrantcrossing along the US Mexico border

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Speaker 3: to be a quote national emergency. The National emergency declaration

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Speaker 3: unlocks federal funding kind of in the way that you'll

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Speaker 3: do it for a hurricane or something like That could

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Speaker 3: also face some constitutional challenge, but because it went through

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Speaker 3: last time around, there worked its way through the courts.

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Speaker 3: There's some legal precedents considering oh and then designating the

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Speaker 3: cartels as foreign terrorist organization, same thing. It opens up

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Speaker 3: a lot of sanctions power. And also, as he pointed

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Speaker 3: out yesterday, Crystal opens up the AUMF order if they.

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Speaker 1: Want to pursue that.

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Speaker 3: On DEI, it was terminating DEI programs across the federal

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Speaker 3: government recognizing two sex as male and female. I love

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Speaker 3: the way to put this, remove protections for transgender people

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Speaker 3: in federal prison tariffs. This is actually arguably the most

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Speaker 3: important one here for everybody. So this is basically a

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Speaker 3: confirmation of what Jeff Stein had previously reported. There is

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Speaker 3: no quote day one tariff going into effect. The way

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Speaker 3: they are doing this is moving it.

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Speaker 1: Through the federal process for a study.

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Speaker 3: So what he's effectively said is we're going to carry

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Speaker 3: out a full view of the US.

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Speaker 1: Industrial and manufacturing base.

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Speaker 3: The reason that you have to do that is that legally,

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Speaker 3: to be able to impose tariffs, you need a justification.

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Speaker 3: So there's some one hundred and eighty day period where

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Speaker 3: the government goes out, assesses, does a review, and based

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Speaker 3: on that review, you're allowed to then declare a tariff

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Speaker 3: based on a national security basis. The reason why you

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Speaker 3: need to do the study is to survive legal scrutiny.

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Speaker 3: So this is the beginning of the legal process to

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Speaker 3: get us to tariffs, but it will not come through

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent. Similarly, like this begin an investigation into

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Speaker 3: trade practices and trade deficis. This is all legalistic language,

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Speaker 3: but is very important for actually getting this stuff done.

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Speaker 3: And then finally there were a bunch of executive orders

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Speaker 3: withdrawing the US from the Paris Climate Accords, declaring a

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Speaker 3: national emergency which could expedite the permitting like to get

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Speaker 3: around permitting reform problems for drilling, and yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: Oh, and then the last one is TikTok, but we

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Speaker 3: will get to that, so there you go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also, like I said, blanket pardons, excuse

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Speaker 2: me for the J six people. So we'll talk to

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Speaker 2: Shelby about that as well. A couple other things. He

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Speaker 2: rescinded a bunch of Biden executive orders. A couple of

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Speaker 2: those that are interesting. One of them was aimed at

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Speaker 2: reducing prescription drug prices for people are on Medicare and Medicaid.

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Speaker 4: That was reversed by Trump.

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Speaker 2: Another one that is significant that We can also talk

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Speaker 2: about a little bit in the context of the latest

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Speaker 2: with regards to the ceasefire is you'll remember Biden put

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Speaker 2: into place in executive order allowing them to sanction extreme

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Speaker 2: violent Israeli settlers. That has been applied to some roughly

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Speaker 2: thirty three people.

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Speaker 4: He rolled that back as well.

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Speaker 2: And this is consequential right now, in particular because settlers

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Speaker 2: are rampaging and rioting like crazy in the West Bank.

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Speaker 2: Of course, oftentimes with the backing of the Israeli government,

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Speaker 2: that has been rolled back. Two additional things just to

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Speaker 2: note here and can get your take onto Sager. So

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Speaker 2: Jeff Stein is reporting about the latest indications with regards

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Speaker 2: to Trump and the terraff regime.

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Speaker 4: So he says, takeaways from Trump's press.

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Speaker 2: Or related to the things I cover, and maybe you

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Speaker 2: care about twenty five percent tariffs on Mexico and Canada

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Speaker 2: could start in ten days. Obviously Trump has been you know,

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Speaker 2: I guess, aggressively talking to both the Canadians and the

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Speaker 2: Mexican government about what that could look like. You know,

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Speaker 2: if that's it across the board tariff, that is insanely consequential.

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Speaker 2: It's very consequential for the auto industry. Those auto parts

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Speaker 2: as part of the manufacturing process cross back and forth

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Speaker 2: over the borders multiple times in the course of putting

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Speaker 2: together a vehicle, so that that would be incredibly consequential

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Speaker 2: in terms of building materials, in terms of oil, especially Midwest.

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Speaker 2: So if there aren't exemptions. But these are all big

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Speaker 2: question marks. If you know, we don't have a lot

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Speaker 2: of clarity on all of this, So put that one

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Speaker 2: to the side. China could be hit with major tariffs

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Speaker 2: if they don't sell TikTok suggests one hundred percent as

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Speaker 2: a possibility. Could talk more about that in the TikTok section.

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Speaker 2: Universal tariff on all countries still on the table. Trump

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Speaker 2: thinks russia economy is falling apart, but wouldn't comment on

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Speaker 2: if he would keep US sanctions and Elon Musk's doge

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Speaker 2: will get a White House office with twenty people. More

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Speaker 2: to say about that in a moment as well. To

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Speaker 2: go back to the birthright citizenship piece, the reason why

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Speaker 2: you're saying it'll be, you know, clearly challenged, and if

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Speaker 2: the lawsuit hasn't already been filed, it will be imminently filed.

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Speaker 2: The Fourteenth Amendment says, Section one states all persons born

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Speaker 2: or naturalized in the US and subject to the jurisdiction

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Speaker 2: thereof are citizens of the US and of the state

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Speaker 2: wherein they reside. Now, scholars in particular are on the

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Speaker 2: right who want to say, no, no, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that everybody is born in the US is you know,

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Speaker 2: a citizen. They point to that to the subject to

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Speaker 2: the jurisdiction thereof, and make the case that potentially some

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Speaker 2: of these individuals aren't really subject to the jurisdiction of

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Speaker 2: the United States, so they don't count as citizens.

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Speaker 4: I think it's.

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Speaker 2: Previously been a relatively fringe legal argument that has been made. However,

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Speaker 2: you now have you know, Supreme Court that is very

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Speaker 2: conservative and so question mark what would happen there?

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Speaker 4: And then I think the other question is like, you know,

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Speaker 4: how far.

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Speaker 2: Does Trump want to push things, because let's just say

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Speaker 2: theoretically that this goes through the court system, goes to

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. Supreme Court's like, no, it's in the constitution.

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Speaker 2: You can't just end birthright citizenship with an executive order.

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Speaker 2: That's not how this works. There's also a possibility that

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Speaker 2: Trump says, as Andrew Jackson said in the past, like okay, well,

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Speaker 2: how are you going to enforce that? You and what

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Speaker 2: army are going to enforce that. So since you have

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Speaker 2: this time around, and this is part of what's different.

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Speaker 2: Number One, he has immunity for anything that he does

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Speaker 2: in office, so he doesn't have to worry about any

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, criminal consequences or whatever.

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Speaker 4: That's off the table.

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Speaker 2: Number two, And as part of these executive orders, Schedule

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Speaker 2: F was instituted. You know, there's been a highly concerted

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Speaker 2: and organized effort in the four years when he was

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Speaker 2: out of power to make sure that he has loyalists

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Speaker 2: in place who will execute on orders even things that

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Speaker 2: may not be legal, may not be constitutional. So I

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Speaker 2: think you can fully expect the executive branch would go

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Speaker 2: along with whatever his interpretation is. So, you know, it

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Speaker 2: really does open up, like I said, a question about

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Speaker 2: how far is he willing to go on this if

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Speaker 2: the court to do what I think most people would

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Speaker 2: expect them to do, although there are no guarantees of

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Speaker 2: striking down this particular executive order.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's a big question actually for a

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Speaker 3: lot of the way the Supreme Court and by the way,

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Speaker 3: apparently just as soda my owner, somebody I knew who

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Speaker 3: was in the rotunda was not looking too healthy. So

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Speaker 3: just people should prepare themselves now that Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: the president.

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Speaker 1: Can you believe can you believe she didn't?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 1: I know I can believe it too. But it's like,

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Speaker 1: after the whole.

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Speaker 3: RBG, this is a diabetic seventy year old woman who's

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Speaker 3: like borderline OBEs, like do I need to show you

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Speaker 3: what a chart looks like?

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Speaker 1: And beyond that, why would you want to string.

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Speaker 3: It out your last years voting in the minority, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and then allegedly being in the servi of some grander ideal.

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Speaker 1: It's just the most insan Again, I.

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Speaker 2: Think the same thing about our president now. The oldest

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Speaker 2: to be sworn into office tables.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hey, listen, JD's.

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Speaker 4: Age and wait, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And he's sitting right there in the wings.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it's not not the similar situation where literally,

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Speaker 3: like I mean imagine like that would mean. It'd be

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Speaker 3: like if there's no vice president and you were that

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Speaker 3: old and you could have risked it to bring in

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Speaker 3: a Democrat, that would be an insane.

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Speaker 2: It would like if the person who was going to

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Speaker 2: take over for Trump if he's like, yes.

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Speaker 3: Was the speaker, and they're like, oh, I'm just going

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Speaker 3: to chance it, and you know, maybe a Democrat will

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Speaker 3: become the President of the United States. So that's what

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Speaker 3: she's decided to do overall with the executive orders. What

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Speaker 3: I would say broadly is that this is a result

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Speaker 3: really of preparation over the last four years, and made

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Speaker 3: this point in our stream yesterday, but I want to

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Speaker 3: reiterate it here for people. I think it's really interesting

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Speaker 3: to consider that Trump is actually at the absolute apex

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Speaker 3: of his powers because he was not in the Oval

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Speaker 3: office for the last four years. Both culturally with Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden nuking the Democratic Party, I think they have the

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Speaker 3: lowest approval rating for the Democratic Party in modern history.

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Speaker 3: According to Gallipoling, he wins the popular vote. But more

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Speaker 3: importantly is the last four years were a battle test

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Speaker 3: of the GOP. Back in twenty twenty, the John McCain's,

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Speaker 3: the Jeff Flakes, the Liz Cheney's and all of those

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Speaker 3: other people. There was not a ton but there was

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Speaker 3: a little bit of consternation ideologically and theoretically about the party.

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Speaker 3: But Trump being able to get away with all of

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Speaker 3: the things that he has done, still get the nomination

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Speaker 3: and still get elected to the White House on top

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Speaker 3: of a four year what I would almost describe as

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Speaker 3: like a cooling off period for the conservative movement where

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Speaker 3: everyone had a fight about DeSantis versus Trump and all that,

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Speaker 3: and Trump won. So for the last two years, the

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Speaker 3: conservative legal establishment of the Federalist Society, all of these people

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Speaker 3: have gotten together, Okay, like we're doing this if we win,

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Speaker 3: and this is the way that we're going to do.

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Speaker 3: That's so different, I mean monumentally different than twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 3: where everything was up for grabs. Half the people who

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Speaker 3: worked for Trump they didn't even like Trump. They actually

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Speaker 3: voted against him or they denounced him, you know, a

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Speaker 3: month before they were working as White House chief of

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Speaker 3: staff or whatever like Wright's previous. This time is just

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Speaker 3: like totally not the case. And with those loyalists. But

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Speaker 3: on top of like the professionalism I would say, of

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Speaker 3: a lot of the senior executive service and others who

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Speaker 3: will be replacing the current bureaucrats, the lawyer people like

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Speaker 3: Will Sharf, the guy who was in that video, who

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Speaker 3: the staff secretary. These are you know, Harvard Princeton educated lawyers,

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Speaker 3: These are people who like a blue blue pedigree background.

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Speaker 3: Stephen Miller and them have been working behind the scenes

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Speaker 3: now for years to be able to prepare this. So

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Speaker 3: I do think it will look very different this time around.

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Speaker 3: In the intro now, there will always be chaos, there

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Speaker 3: will always be Mika Brazinski facelift, tweets, truths, you know,

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Speaker 3: and all of that, etc. But at an actionable level.

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Speaker 3: I expected and see this in such a different from

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Speaker 3: last time. I mean, don't you remember that travel ban

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Speaker 3: order he put in place in his first week. It

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Speaker 3: was reversed ten days later, you know, and it was

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Speaker 3: just chaotic, it made no sense. This time around, everything

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Speaker 3: like the tariffs, everything is moving through the technical legal

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Speaker 3: process to avoid court challenge, to avoid many of the

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Speaker 3: things that struck them down and had problems with. So

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Speaker 3: that's really what I what I see in the professionalism

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Speaker 3: of a lot of the people around Donald Trump. That

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Speaker 3: has nothing to do with Trump himself, but it has

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Speaker 3: to do with his movement, what people believe in, and

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Speaker 3: actually trying to action make actionable many of the things

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Speaker 3: he talked about.

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Speaker 1: On the campaign.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the way that I would say that

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Speaker 2: is basically they have their ducks in a row and

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Speaker 2: there are no breaks left on the car. And he

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Speaker 2: doesn't have to he doesn't have to answer to anyone.

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Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't get really for reelection again, So

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Speaker 2: there's no you know, democratic break, any sort of GOP

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Speaker 2: opposition has been vanquished. You know, I mean a lot

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Speaker 2: of democratic opposition has been vanquished. See the fact that

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Speaker 2: Marco Rubio got approved is like total neocon warmonger. But

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Speaker 2: whatever got approved ninety nine to nothing in his Senate

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Speaker 2: confirmation hearing yesterday, And it shows you what a great

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Speaker 2: fight the Democrats are putting up this time around. And

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Speaker 2: I think part of that is, you know, not only yes,

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Speaker 2: he won the popular vote, you know by a point

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Speaker 2: and a half. Yes, there's this you know, huge sort

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Speaker 2: of vibe shift with all the like tech oligarchs backing him,

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Speaker 2: and this.

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Speaker 4: Like cultural right wing cultural.

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Speaker 2: Consensus that has formed, especially in particular sort of at

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Speaker 2: elite levels, where this has been embraced as their path

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Speaker 2: to make sure that they hold their grip on power,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. So you have all of those pieces that

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Speaker 2: have come together.

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Speaker 4: And then also you know, Trump from a.

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Speaker 2: Business perspective, he in his first administration, he his big

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Speaker 2: accomplishment was passing a giant tax cut. Some of the

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Speaker 2: more like populist direction that he had embraced in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Now he's you know, hanging out with the masters of

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Speaker 2: the universe, tech oligarch types. He had like four of

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Speaker 2: the five richest people in the world at his inaugurations

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Speaker 2: sitting behind him yesterday. And so the business community doesn't

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Speaker 2: feel threatened or afraid anymore the way that they did

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Speaker 2: the last time. They feel like there's more to be

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Speaker 2: gained from collaborating with him than there is to be

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Speaker 2: gained from opposing him. So so yeah, I mean, and

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Speaker 2: like I said, one of the quiet Okay, so these

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Speaker 2: are this whole raft of executive orders. The birthright citizenship

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Speaker 2: one is not the only one that is ultimately going

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Speaker 2: to be challenged in federal court. And then the question is, okay, well,

440
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: how far is he going to go? Because what we're

441
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: basically relying on at this point is for Donald Trump

442
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 2: to check himself to say, you know, the court said

443
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: I can't do that, so I'm not going to do

444
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 2: that because there is no other check in place like

445
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 2: That's that has been part of the effort of the

446
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 2: past four years and really consolidated by the Supreme Court

447
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 2: with the immunity decision. That has been the project for

448
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: the last four years is to make sure there are

449
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 2: no possible checks in place. And yes, they've been very

450
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: successful at that. So you know, if I have to

451
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: look at these executive orders, I took, I read through

452
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 2: the whole, the entire you know, thread, listing all of them.

453
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 2: There are quite a number of them, a lot of

454
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: them in a lot of different directions. You know, there

455
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 2: were some like woe dei anti dei stuff, the transgender

456
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: there's only two genders one, but I think the bulk

457
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 2: of them, the impetus is on a really militarized, aggressive

458
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: immigration approach. And then the uh, you know, really opening

459
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: up getting rid of any semblance of concern about climate

460
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,120
Speaker 2: obviously which aren't from the Paris Climate Accords. I mean,

461
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 2: nobody's been following those anyway, so I don't know how

462
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: consequential that is. But rolling back things like the ev

463
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 2: tax credits, making sure we're sending any restrictions on where

464
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 2: you can drill, et cetera. So, you know, from my perspective,

465
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 2: at a time when we're seeing more and more client

466
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 2: extreme climate emergencies, including the ones we just saw in

467
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 2: la I think that's a disastrous direction to go in,

468
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,160
Speaker 2: but those are the two, you know, major pushes here

469
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: in the early days of the Trump Yeah.

470
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: I mean, and that actually gets back to inflation, because

471
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: one of the things that was most effective for Donald

472
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 3: Trump was gas prices whenever he was president.

473
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: Is one of the things he's talked about the most.

474
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 3: That's the reason why they're doing it, and that's largely

475
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: it's to actually try and drop the price of gas,

476
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 3: and more importantly, to actually increase oil export for a

477
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,159
Speaker 3: lot of these people, which is a huge priority of

478
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 3: the oil and gas companies.

479
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: And the tariffs would potentially cut in the opposite direction.

480
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. They're actually good yea.

481
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 2: Although depending on how you know, what the tariffs end

482
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: up being, that's what would determine.

483
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: It would be interesting because it could actually increase net

484
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 3: export of natural gas and oil if we do terf

485
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 3: because the we wouldn't be bringing as much or so, Yeah,

486
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 3: it would decrease our net exports, which is kind of

487
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 3: the opposite of where the oil companies and all of

488
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: them want to go to. So we're being told we

489
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 3: do have Shelby Talcott, who was waiting to join us. So,

490
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 3: Shelby is the White House correspondent for the Semaphore.

491
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 1: She's a great friend of the show.

492
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 3: She's going to talk to us about these January sixth

493
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: executive orders. So guys, let's go ahead and bring her

494
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 3: in and we'll discuss.

495
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: So there she is, Shelby. How are you good?

496
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 6: How are you?

497
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: We're great? Thank you so much for joining us.

498
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: So, guys, can we go ahead and put a tear

499
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: sheet here on the January sixth, pardon Shelby.

500
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: Donald Trump.

501
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 3: One of the big executive orders that he signed yesterday

502
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 3: was commuting the sentences of the crowd Boy and Oathkeeper leaders,

503
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: along with some over one thousand other January sixth Capital rioters.

504
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: Just talk to us about some of the background that

505
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: went into us. There was a big question mark as

506
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: to who exactly would get commutations and pardons.

507
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: Jd.

508
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 3: Vance, the Vice President, was on television about nine days

509
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: ago and had indicated that it would be less sweeping.

510
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: I guess than.

511
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 3: Currently, how do they come that decision and what's the

512
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 3: end result?

513
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think everybody thought that it was going to

514
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 7: be less sweeping because we heard from so many Trump

515
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 7: allies and even Donald Trump himself over the past two

516
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 7: years who sort of said that it would be on

517
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 7: a case by case basis. And there were a lot

518
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 7: of people who told me that they would be doing

519
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 7: it on a case by case basis.

520
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 6: And like JD.

521
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 7: Van said, if you, for example, beat up a police officer,

522
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 7: then you deserve to go to prison. But that's not

523
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 7: what will ultimately happen. And I think what's really interesting

524
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 7: here is the backstory. I've done a lot of reporting

525
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 7: over the last two years on this situation. And remember

526
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 7: right after January sixth, Donald Trump never really wanted to

527
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 7: bring that up. He condemned the situation, even if it

528
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 7: was a little bit forced, and then he really didn't

529
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 7: want to bring it up. He never mentioned it on

530
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 7: the campaign trail. But there was an outside effort from

531
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 7: allies of these defendants to get him on board, and

532
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 7: so they started sort of petitioning people in his orbit.

533
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 7: And then Donald Trump tapped an individual to oversee the

534
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 7: January sixth defendants and their supporters and they started started

535
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 7: coming to mar A Lago, and they started meeting with

536
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 7: Donald Trump and sort of petitioning him, and over the

537
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 7: course of two years, we've seen how his opinion of

538
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,479
Speaker 7: these defendants has changed drastically, and it ultimately ended up

539
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 7: that he just gave a sweeping pardon, which I think

540
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 7: people in his orbit didn't even anticipate.

541
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: Interesting talk about some of the specifics of the people

542
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 2: who were pardon I think there were some like fourteen

543
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 2: or sixteen something like that who had their sentences commuted,

544
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 2: and Trump said, we can look into them further, maybe

545
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: they also deserve a full pardon. But by and large, everybody,

546
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: whether they you know, just sort of wandered in and

547
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 2: didn't know what they were doing allegedly, or whether they

548
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 2: were involved in violently assaulting police officers, by and large,

549
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: they were all set free pardon, full and complete, pardon,

550
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: et cetera. So give us some of the specifics of

551
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 2: some of the people that were talking about here and

552
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: what they were convicted for doing.

553
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 7: On January side, So, one of the people who did

554
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 7: get a pardon is Enriquetario.

555
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 6: He used to head up the Proud Boys.

556
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 7: He was serving twenty two years in prison for seditious conspiracy.

557
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 7: And then there were also five other I believe Proud

558
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 7: Boys who had their sentences commuted and there were fourteen

559
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 7: in total sentences that were commuted, and Donald Trump said

560
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 7: that they're going to be taking a look and seeing

561
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 7: if they could potentially go even even farther with that.

562
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 7: But then there were other people who were sentenced for

563
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 7: various crimes for you know, breaking and entering, for violence

564
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 7: against the police officer. We had a wide array of

565
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 7: crimes in this January sixth with these January sixth defendants,

566
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 7: and everybody has essentially been pardoned or commuted.

567
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 3: One of the things I'm always curious about, Shelby, is

568
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 3: how these things happen. And with Trump, we know that

569
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: there are always, you know, various side characters and pressures

570
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: and other things happening. What since you wrote the story

571
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: about this, what's your assessment Like the activists and others

572
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: who've been involved. I know of some people like Julie

573
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 3: Kelly and Lara Logan for example, who really made this

574
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: into a cause over the last couple of years. Was

575
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 3: it their media pressure? Was it lawmakers? Just talk to

576
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: us about that.

577
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 7: I don't think it was media pressure, because the vast

578
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 7: majority of the media was covering this really from one

579
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 7: side of things.

580
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 6: I think it was this.

581
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 7: You have to remember Also Cash Ptel, who is very

582
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 7: close to Donald Trump and going to be presumably in

583
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 7: his administration, was also involved in this. He had a

584
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 7: sort of I think it was a nonprofit where he

585
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 7: raised money for some of the Junior sixth defendants.

586
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 6: When I spoke to him about this last year.

587
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 7: He said that it was on a case by case

588
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 7: basis and that none of the money was going to

589
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 7: violent offenders. I didn't get any details about what that

590
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 7: those investigations looked like to determine who got the money

591
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 7: or not, but he's been involved, and so these were

592
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 7: people really close to Donald Trump. And so what happened

593
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 7: was these outside figures like Julie Kelly, like the lawyers

594
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 7: for at the January sixth defendants, started petitioning these folks

595
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 7: and then these folks who were in Donald Trump's orbit

596
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 7: helped bring them into mar A Lago and helped have events.

597
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 7: Donald Trump had events for January sixth defendants at mar

598
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 7: A Lago over the past two years, and it sort

599
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 7: of all was a slow leak.

600
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 6: Towards the big Boss, Donald Trump.

601
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 7: And eventually, as he sat down and talked with these folks,

602
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 7: he was convinced, as Donald Trump often does, right he

603
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 7: talks to people all the time. He always wants people's advice,

604
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 7: and I think over the past two years, the other

605
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 7: thing to note is a lot of people.

606
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 6: In Donald Trump's orbit.

607
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 7: As these defendants continued to get charged, and as Donald

608
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 7: Trump himself was facing legal issues, all of that affected

609
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 7: his decision and how ultimately became a January sixth supporter

610
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 7: of these defendants. He saw what the Junior sixth defendants

611
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 7: were going through and said, I'm going through the same thing.

612
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

613
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: I think it's worth remembering. You know, on the day

614
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: of January sixth, and in the immediate aftermath, there was

615
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: almost universal horror, you know, both at sort of conservative

616
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: media outlets, places like Fox News were horrified. Many Republicans

617
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: in the immediate aftermath, Republican elected officials were horrified. The

618
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: public continues to be horrified.

619
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: You know.

620
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: Taking this action is tremendously unpopular. So talk to us

621
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: about the you know, the kind of what it says

622
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: about the Republican Party and how it's moved over this

623
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: past number of years. That now, I mean, I don't know,

624
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: maybe maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't expect anybody

625
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: really to pipe up and be like this is wrong,

626
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: they assaulted police officers on the Republican side, like he

627
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: shouldn't have done this. They're just gonna go along with

628
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: it at this point, which is tremendously different from the

629
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 2: immediate reaction in the aftermath of that day.

630
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 7: I think it shows that Donald Trump is fully in

631
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 7: charge of the Republican Party. And I've, to be clear,

632
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 7: heard from a lot of folks who are close to

633
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 7: Donald Trump who were a little bit unsettled by this decision.

634
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 6: But will they come out and say it publicly.

635
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 7: Probably not, because their feeling is Donald Trump is in

636
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 7: charge and this is what he has decided. But I

637
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 7: know a lot of people in the Republican Party are

638
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 7: a little bit uncomfortable by this. I think that they

639
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 7: would have been far more comfortable if it had been

640
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 7: done by a case by case basis, and if those

641
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 7: individuals who did.

642
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 6: Do more violent crimes were not.

643
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 4: Released and shelby.

644
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: What do you think it says about this Trump administration

645
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: coming into that. You know, as you pointed out just

646
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: weeks ago, his own vice president was like, well, of

647
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: course the violent ones should be in prison and deserve

648
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: to serve time. And now here we are weeks later,

649
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: and it's like no blanket. Basically across the board, they're

650
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 2: all no problem, good to go. So it is just conspiracy.

651
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: Beating a cop doesn't matter. You're set free. What does

652
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: it say about how he's approaching this four year term.

653
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 6: He makes all the decisions. And I also think, you know.

654
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 7: When Donald Trump comes to a decision on something, he

655
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 7: takes the advice of a lot of people, but ultimately,

656
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 7: everybody in his orbit has always told me, you can

657
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 7: give Donald Trump all the advice you want, but at

658
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 7: the end of the day, he makes the decision based

659
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 7: on what he wants to do, and he'll take your

660
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 7: advice oftentimes and he'll keep it in mind, but he

661
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 7: is the ultimate decision maker. And I think this is

662
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 7: also another example of pick your battles right. Susie Wilds,

663
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 7: for example, his chief of staff has been in his

664
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 7: orbit and survived in his orbit for a really long

665
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 7: time when a lot of other people have not, and

666
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 7: that is partially because she's learned when to pick her battle.

667
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 7: So my thinking of this situation is his mind was

668
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 7: so made up, probably in part because he himself had

669
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 7: gone through all of these legal issues that he felt

670
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 7: were unjust that it was not worth that fight, and

671
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 7: so that's how a lot of people in Donald Trump's

672
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 7: orbit are looking at it as Yeah, I don't love this,

673
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 7: but it's just not worth the fight.

674
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: Also, we wanted to talk to you about Doge in

675
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: vivike Ramaswami. Guys, can we go ahead and put this

676
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: up there on the screen. The news is out and

677
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: its official one hundred percent. Vivike Ramaswami will be exiting

678
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: Doge before it even really gets a chance to begin,

679
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: they write, everyone wants him out. How Musk helped boot

680
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 3: Ramaswami from Doge. Can you give us some of the

681
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: backstory here? I know that I've heard this probably same

682
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: to you as tension in mar A Lago, etc. Not

683
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: sure I realized the extent to which Elon Musk had

684
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 3: turned on Vivike actually even earlier and prior to his

685
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: tweet about American culture. So what do you first give

686
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: us some of the backstory and then give us some

687
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 3: of what you think about what it portends for the

688
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: future Trump administration.

689
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 7: There's a lot of stories going around, right you hear

690
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 7: from vi vike Ramaswami allies who say, no, no, this

691
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 7: is all just because he wants to.

692
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 6: Run for governor.

693
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 7: Probably a little bit of it, but certainly there were

694
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 7: tentions that I think none of us really realized, and

695
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 7: I think it came down to from what I've been

696
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 7: told by some people.

697
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 6: Another version of the story is that there wasn't.

698
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 7: Enough work being done by the VAKE and that that

699
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 7: h one b visa debate where he came out and

700
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 7: supported it and kind of trashed American culture was another

701
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 7: big reason, sort of the nail in the coffin to

702
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 7: get rid of him.

703
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 6: But there are a lot of stories going around.

704
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 7: Some people have said that he was annoying Donald Trump

705
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 7: in addition to Elon Musk, But ultimately the run for governor,

706
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 7: the impending run for governor sort of gave them an

707
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 7: easy out to I think push him out sooner, because

708
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 7: I know as recently as last week I was talking

709
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 7: to people close to the VAC who were telling me, yes,

710
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 7: his plan has always been all along, du doge for

711
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 7: nine months and then run for governor, And certainly it

712
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 7: has not been nine months.

713
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: So are we like he just was annoying, like they

714
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 2: just didn't like working with them.

715
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 4: Is that basically what it came down to.

716
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,479
Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh, the same by the bell thing,

717
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: this is our ticket to push this guy on entirely.

718
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, I haven't.

719
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 7: I honestly have not heard anything, you know, any specific

720
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 7: instance or a specific blow up fight. It was just,

721
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 7: for my understanding, a bunch of different small things combined

722
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 7: with some people.

723
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 2: Some people's personalities just don't just don't work.

724
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 7: Exactly the new with the new Donald Trump also signed

725
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 7: an executive order, uh, sort of solidifying dogs within the

726
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 7: US government might have been difficult for Vivig Gramos want

727
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 7: me to do that while also running for Ohio governor.

728
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that. So the

729
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: Executive Order people are flagging.

730
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 4: All it really did was change with the.

731
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: Digital IT Service Deportment that like, yeah, there were some

732
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: already existing digital modernization thing that was created actually by Obama,

733
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: and they're like, we're just renaming this DOGE and so

734
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 2: it The way the Executive Order is written at least

735
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: doesn't have this broad reaching like slash regulations and cut

736
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: personnel and do all of these things. It's the Executive

737
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: Order is pretty narrowly focused on it, which you know

738
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: Suber saying like, oh, well, that would be a great

739
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: way for you to give yourself and your friends a

740
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: lot of tech contracts. But what is your reading of

741
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: the specifics of that executive order and whether that has

742
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: any bearing on what the ultimate mandate of DOGE is

743
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: going to be.

744
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 7: So from my understanding, the DOGE will get a White

745
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 7: House office with about twenty people, and then each agency.

746
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 7: This executive order directs each agency to implement sort of

747
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 7: their own DOGE team, and so that is sort of

748
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 7: how they're going to go about it.

749
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 6: But you're right, a lot of it is directed.

750
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 7: On boosting the technology capabilities which we already have. So

751
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 7: you know, I don't think we know the answer of

752
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 7: how effective it's going to be. And the other question

753
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 7: that I have that I don't have the answer to

754
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: is with these teams, with these interagency teams, is there

755
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 7: also going to be an out of agency over arching

756
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 7: team that sort of oversees all of it and directs

757
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 7: each agency into here's what we want you to do

758
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 7: for the agency, Here's how much money we want you

759
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 7: to cut. Or is it going to be up to

760
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 7: each individual team to try to, you know, get a

761
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 7: combined one trillion dollars?

762
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, very very important.

763
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 2: Are you seeing any there's been a lot of speculation like, oh,

764
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: Trump is certainly at some point going to fall out

765
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 2: with Elon Musk and be upset that he's dealing the spotlight,

766
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: blah blah. I don't really see any signs of it.

767
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 4: But what do I know.

768
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 2: I'm like totally on the outside. Have there been any

769
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: indications of that? As best as you can tell, Shelby.

770
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 6: I haven't seen it.

771
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 7: And again, you know, when I ask people about this,

772
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 7: they there have been people in Trump's orbit who are

773
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 7: close to Trump who don't love Elon Musk. Right Steve Bannon,

774
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 7: for example, has not made it a secret that he

775
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 7: has issues with Elon Musk. But Elon Musk has a

776
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 7: lot of money, and Donald Trump likes people who have

777
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 7: a lot of money, and so Elon Musk also really

778
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 7: helped Donald Trump win the election, and so for now,

779
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 7: especially with Donald Trump in office, I think actually that

780
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 7: helps because it was one thing to be at mar

781
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 7: a Lago, where Elon Musk, even though mar Lago is

782
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 7: a private club, could get in pretty easily and be

783
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 7: very close to Donald Trump day in and day out.

784
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 7: Once he's in the oval office, it's going to be

785
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 7: more difficult. And I think that helps Elon Musk because

786
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 7: he won't be around every single day.

787
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, that is a really good point.

788
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: Well oh sorry, oh well, before I let you go, Shelby,

789
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: I had to pick your brain on tennis if you

790
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: had any time to watch the Australian Open. This way

791
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: for people who don't know, Shelby was a pro tennis player.

792
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: Which is crazy. I didn't even unbelievably impressive.

793
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: For eight years.

794
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: I don't even know that I am in a lot

795
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: of that. But have you had any time to watch?

796
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: There have been some incredible matches. I saw Djokovic took

797
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 2: out an Alkaraz early this morning or last night or

798
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: something like that.

799
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm a big Djokovic fan, are you?

800
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 5: Lely?

801
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 7: I have not gotten to watch a ton of tennis

802
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 7: because I've been so busy, but my mom watches it NonStop,

803
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 7: so I always hear about it from her and she

804
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 7: always text me as if I have it on you know,

805
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 7: the screen twenty four hours and him watching it. But

806
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 7: I know a lot of the girls who who were

807
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 7: compete in it, so I also see it like on

808
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 7: my Instagram.

809
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 4: But I that's your favorite? Who do you cheer for?

810
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 4: Female tennis player? Who's your favorite?

811
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 6: You know, I haven't watched it.

812
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 7: I haven't really been in tune for years going on.

813
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 7: Are like the oldies from like, you know, eight or

814
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 7: ten years ago. So like the rain break, I took

815
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 7: a break. I was like a little I was a

816
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 7: little washed up. I needed I needed a break from it.

817
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 7: So date that.

818
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: I relate to that, I relate to that having I didn't.

819
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: I never achieved the athletic prowess that you did. But

820
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: being a former swimmer and people are like, oh, do

821
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 2: you still swim? Nope, not unless I'm just like, you know,

822
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 2: hanging out lounge and whatever. So Shelby, in any case,

823
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: you're a pro and a star reporter that we always appreciate.

824
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for helping some shed some

825
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: light on these early actions in the Trump administration.

826
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, Shelby. We appreciate it anytime.

827
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: So we wanted to talk a little bit about the

828
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: latest with regard to this what I think we can

829
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 2: now pretty clearly call a temporary ceasefire in Gaza, which

830
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: went into effect shortly before Trump took office. Mac, let's

831
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: go and pull up just so people can see, you know,

832
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 2: as now Palestinians and Gaza are starting to return home.

833
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: We're getting more and more images of some of the

834
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 2: devastation here Mac if you can pull up the Gaza devastation,

835
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: then also this image of Chibalia that we have here

836
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 2: in the rundown. You know, I mean, the level of

837
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 2: destruction is just nearly complete, especially in northern Gaza. It's

838
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: absolutely insane. What it looks like you can see is

839
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: just I don't even know what that is. That looks

840
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: like an ambulance at one point. You can see images

841
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: of vehicles, trucks that are crushed rubble everywhere. People have

842
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: been reporting that as they've been returning to their destroyed homes,

843
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: horrific reports of relatives remains that they're finding in some

844
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 2: instances with sniper wounds having been shot in the head.

845
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: There have been some reaches by the way too already

846
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: of the ceasefire by the Israelis in the Gaza strips.

847
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 4: So it has been largely calm, but not one hundred

848
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 4: percent calm. And then Trump.

849
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: Actually was asked yesterday if we can prepare the Trump

850
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: ceasefire side. Trump was actually asked yesterday, in the context

851
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: of signing all of these executive orders, how confident he

852
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: was that they would be able to maintain the calm

853
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 2: in Gaza. Let's go ahead. When you guys are ready

854
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: for that and take a listen to that.

855
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 4: Then are the new sur president that you can keep

856
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: the ceasefire in Gaza and include the tree phases of heal.

857
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 5: I'm not convenent. That's not our words. There were, but

858
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 5: I'm not convenent, but I think they're very weakened. On

859
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 5: the other side, guys, I looked at a picture of Gaza.

860
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 5: Gaz is is like a massive demolition site that places.

861
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: It's really got to be rebuilt in a different way.

862
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 6: The Mental health reviewsing Kaza my mind.

863
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 5: You know, Gas is interesting. It's a phenomenal location on

864
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 5: the sea, best weather, you know, everything's good. It's like

865
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 5: some beautiful things could be done with it. But it's

866
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 5: very interesting. But some fantastic things could be done with Gas.

867
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: How do you see the future governance for.

868
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 5: Dozen, Well, it depends. I can't imagine you could have.

869
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: We certainly can't have. The people that were there, most

870
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 5: of them are did so.

871
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: He says there he's not confident at all that this

872
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 2: will continue. And you know, Sagarth, this of course comports

873
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: with some of what Bibe Nina who has been saying

874
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: as well, and Bezilil Smochridge. So I think Shelle when

875
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: we had him on later out pretty pretty clearly that basically,

876
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: you know, as part of Bebe's coalition, he had Ben Gavier,

877
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: who is now actually exited the coalition because he's upset

878
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: about this deal, and he has Smotrich Church extracted a promise.

879
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know that BB was like really

880
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: opposed to this, but that they would go back to

881
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: the war once Phase one was complete. And this has

882
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: now been reported by many Israeli sources. BB himself came

883
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 2: out and said effectively the same thing. He said that

884
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: he got promises both from Biden and from Trump that

885
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: they would be able to return to the war after

886
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: Phase one was complete. And so when you see Trump here,

887
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: two of his executive actions too, by the way, and

888
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: I'll get to that in just a moment, had to

889
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: do with Israel. But when you see him here, honestly

890
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 2: just like yeah, whatever, I'm not confident it's going to continue,

891
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: not seeming to really care whether it continues or not.

892
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: I think it's a very negative indication of where this

893
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 2: is potentially heading.

894
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

895
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I mean I think I was modestly

896
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 3: I was modestly optimistic that something would happen because I

897
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 3: thought that the Israeli government might fall, not because of

898
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 3: what pressure would happen on the Trump side. And I

899
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe I still am an idiot it, but

900
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: I mean, Israeli is do you really want to keep

901
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 3: this shit going?

902
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:05,240
Speaker 1: Like you're losing a lot of money?

903
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: Five hundred year soldiers were killed as a result of

904
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: the same Seaspire deal being on the table. I mean,

905
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 3: I know, baby, the government may not care about the hostages,

906
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 3: but I know all of you care about the hostages.

907
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of hostages who are being left.

908
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 3: Like, you know, is this really the course of action

909
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: that you want to take. We've had a resurgence and

910
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: or recruitment of a number of Hamas people. If you

911
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 3: want to continue the war, this will take I mean,

912
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 3: how long has it been since October seven? It's been

913
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 3: almost eighteen months, right, so if you think about it

914
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: in Iraq context, we're roughly in the five mark and like,

915
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 3: guess what happened to somebody else's country when they fought

916
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: a similar type war in five It was a nightmare.

917
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 3: It was a nightmare for years going forward. That's effectively

918
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,479
Speaker 3: what you were committing yourself to. So I'm maybe I'm dumb.

919
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 3: I just think that I still have like commdest confidence

920
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 3: like there's some democratic input or something going on in

921
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: that country.

922
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

923
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: Look because America, I think what they would say obviously

924
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: widely disagree with this, but they would say is it's

925
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 2: sort of analogous to when we withdrew from Afghanistan. Then

926
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,919
Speaker 2: you have to reckon with this what did we do

927
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 2: all these years?

928
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: Right?

929
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: The Taliban is just right back in power, Like what

930
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 2: were we doing all what did we spend all this

931
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: money for? What do we lose all these lives for?

932
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 2: What did we destroy this entire country? Were like, what

933
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: were we doing? And it's a similar thing here like already,

934
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, Hamas is out in the streets and they're

935
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: happy that the you know, ceasefire is in place and

936
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 2: there is no other because you know, these reallys weren't

937
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: interested actually in some sort of like peaceful solution that

938
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 2: would lead to a better of governance. B Because always

939
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: enjoyed the fact that Hamas was in power in Gaza,

940
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 2: so he could point to them and say, I don't

941
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 2: have a partner for peace, Like those dynamics haven't changed,

942
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 2: and so they don't want to have a reckoning with

943
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: the fact that, yes, they killed a lot of civilians. Yes,

944
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 2: Gaza is rubble, Yes they have inflicted mass pain, suffering, starvation, illness, death,

945
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: et cetera.

946
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 4: But you did not destroy him us. And so I think.

947
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 2: There's a desire to not reckon with that reality that

948
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: pushes not all, but a large part of Israeli society

949
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 2: towards no, we just need to keep killing more.

950
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 4: We just need to keep this war going.

951
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: And you know, certainly within the like Bebi's coalition's that's

952
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: the majority, I would say, sentiment is in that direction.

953
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: So you know, again there was some hope that like,

954
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: maybe this would be important to Trump because he would

955
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: think it would be embarrassing if they just went back

956
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: to the fighting. But certainly the indications from that sod

957
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: are he's.

958
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 4: Just like, it's their war.

959
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: Whatever.

960
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 4: I don't think it'll really hold, but we'll see.

961
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: I think you're right.

962
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 3: I mean, look, let's also be honest, like Trump is

963
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: the most pro Israel president to literally ever take office,

964
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: not in terms of his background, but in terms of

965
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 3: the concrete promises he made and the.

966
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: People he's put in place. And yeah, Miriam Madison was

967
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: sitting right there in.

968
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 3: The inauguration, as you said, I've tried to prepare people

969
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: for reality. The reality is Israel is going to annex

970
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: West Bank.

971
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: Okay, get over it.

972
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 3: And if you were with Trump, like, that's just part

973
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 3: of the things you're gonna have to think.

974
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: If you care a lot about.

975
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 3: It, you shouldn't have voted for mem I don't know

976
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 3: what to tell you if you didn't want if you

977
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: want them to cut weapons off to Israel, it will

978
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: never happen. In the current political context, the issue has

979
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: become totally polarized left and right. There is zero what

980
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 3: reward mechanism in the Republican Party for Why would you

981
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: do it?

982
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 5: You know?

983
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: I mean I can't. You don't even want to know.

984
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: Maybe one day I'll.

985
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: Tell everybody the stories here about what even my modest

986
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 3: commentary I would think maybe you would disagree on. The

987
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 3: Israel issue has cost me in terms of my personal life,

988
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 3: in terms of ties, cut et cetera, and bullshit smears,

989
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 3: you know, being pushed behind the scenes.

990
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I should do it. One day.

991
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 3: But my point is just like that's and I'm an idiot.

992
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: I'm nobody, just a commentator over here. Now imagine being

993
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 3: in power somebody who's a congressman or a senator. Their

994
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: roar mechanism doesn't exist here. Again, the truth Israel will

995
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 3: never be cut off. That what really happens is up

996
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 3: to them. They will annex the West Bank. Our ambassador

997
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: at Israel, Mike Huckabee, said he doesn't believe in a

998
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 3: two state solution, which basically means that's US government policy.

999
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 3: The best thing that you should all hope for, if

1000
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 3: you're pro Palestine or anti war, whatever is you should

1001
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 3: hope that the chaos over there is so out of

1002
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 3: control and so affects domestic politics and or energy prices

1003
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 3: here at home, that they'll do something about it, Which

1004
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 3: is the main impetus right for a lot of this

1005
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 3: is he loves the peacemaker, the image. He doesn't care

1006
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: about the issue. By the way, who cares how we

1007
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: get it done? If and you know, I gave advice

1008
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 3: to people, send the people in Godza Maga hats like

1009
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: if you really want this to happen, like you need

1010
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 3: to make it politically convenient interesting for Trump to posture,

1011
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 3: like for example, he remember that article that we put

1012
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 3: up on our show Arab officials from the Times of Israel.

1013
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 3: Trump pressured net and Yahoo more in one meeting than

1014
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: anyone else. Guess what he posted that on his truth

1015
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 3: social because all he cares about is his own ego.

1016
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: Apparently the Israelis are now attacking Steve Witkoff. They've been

1017
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: leaking and being like he's a Katari owned asset or

1018
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 3: what the Las Vegas Jewish billionaires.

1019
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: Of course a Katari owned asset.

1020
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 3: They hate it because he pressured them to take this

1021
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: ceasefire deal.

1022
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: So stuff like that. If you get it to Trump.

1023
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 3: He's you know, an egotistical person, so to the extent

1024
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: that if you guys all want to play the game,

1025
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 3: that's the only way this is all going to happen.

1026
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even that, like I mean, Hegsath and Hugby

1027
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: are both in times like stell it. You know, the

1028
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 2: administration has already been staffed in the way that Miriam

1029
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: Maddilson wanted it to be staff That's true. And so

1030
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 2: you know, to your point about the West pank, which

1031
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: I will not personally be getting over, but I know

1032
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 2: what you're saying, just like that's the reality.

1033
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: Q Trump.

1034
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 3: I'm saying, Look, I'm being totally honest. I had to

1035
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 3: reconcile myself for this. I'm like, all right, this is Look,

1036
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: we have two choices. It's binary.

1037
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: It's not easy. What do we choose.

1038
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 3: We choose probably in the same way that you used

1039
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 3: to think about Biden before Gaza or like I like

1040
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 3: the Iri task credit, so I like Lena Kahan, right,

1041
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 3: You're like at the end of the day, Look, I mean,

1042
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: people know my worldview. I don't give a shit about

1043
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 3: most other countries. I mostly care about what's happening here

1044
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 3: to the extent I care about what's happening abroad is

1045
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: to the extent that it's affecting us here at home.

1046
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 3: That's probably the decision I had to make. That's probably

1047
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 3: millions of people had to make that type of decision.

1048
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: And I don't progrets.

1049
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: Well, but I do think that there was a lot

1050
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: of like fake wish casting.

1051
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: About that was not like campaign No.

1052
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm just saying, like, you may have

1053
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: been in touch with that reality, but I don't. I

1054
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: think there were many people who weren't, and honestly aren't still.

1055
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: But you know, I mentioned two executive orders from Trump

1056
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 2: relevant to Israel. One of them was I mentioned before

1057
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 2: Biden put in place. I mean, it's just it's like

1058
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: the most tiny slap on the risk sort of thing

1059
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: that Biden could have done. But sanctioning some of the

1060
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: violent settlers, pretending like they're not like fully backed by

1061
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: the Israeli government. But in any case, there were something

1062
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: like thirty three individuals who we're sanctioned through these methods.

1063
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: Trump rolled that back, and he also rolled back some

1064
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: limitations that have been put in place on shipping two

1065
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: thousand pound bombs, which I didn't even know there were

1066
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: any limitations on any arm shipments from the Biden administration.

1067
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 4: But in any case, that's a supply thing.

1068
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: It's not because of morality. Yes, it's to keep them

1069
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,439
Speaker 3: for ourself, that's the reason.

1070
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: So in any case, those restrictions have been lifted under

1071
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: Trump as well, just to give you a sense of

1072
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 2: where things are headed. And then you know, in addition

1073
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: to I think very likely after phase one, you know,

1074
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 2: bombings continue in Gaza and they go right back to

1075
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: the fight. The West Bank is under increasing attack. You

1076
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: can put this up on the screen. Jeremy Skhill and

1077
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: drop site News and R and Ryan Graham have course

1078
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 2: been doing a great job of covering what's going on there.

1079
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,959
Speaker 2: One thing that they did is they announced this quote

1080
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: unquote counter terror operation in the occupied West Bank. They

1081
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: shut down all kinds of roads. I mean, Palestinian movement

1082
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 2: in the West Bank is already extremely limited, and now

1083
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: it's even more so. And then you have settlers that

1084
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: have just been violently rampaging in a number of Palestinian villages,

1085
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 2: in some instances overtly backed by Israeli forces that are now,

1086
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: as Jeremy reports, invading and attacking parts of Ganine. In addition,

1087
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 2: there was actually an incident where settlers were setting fires

1088
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: and attacking this village and Israeli police thought the settlers

1089
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: were Palestinians and shot them. And now this is like,

1090
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,240
Speaker 2: this is a big story in Israel because of Turnau.

1091
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: What's they weren't Palestinians who we don't care about killing.

1092
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: They were actually settlers, Jewish settlers. So there's you know,

1093
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: this is sort of an explicit plan that all right,

1094
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: while we're having this calm in Gaza, temporarily we're going

1095
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: to move on the West Bank. This will be also

1096
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: a pretext that's used in addition to, you know, to

1097
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 2: return to the war as well. So that's the latest

1098
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: that we have coming out of the Middle East, and

1099
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: none of it is particularly good news.

1100
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1101
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 3: Look, I my only optimism for a cease fire for

1102
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 3: any of this was the at least credit. By the way,

1103
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 3: if another reason way that you would want this happen

1104
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 3: is you should have the Nobel Foundation award Trump the

1105
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 3: Nobel Peace Prize. They should come out and do that

1106
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: immediately to give him more of an incentive.

1107
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: People think I'm kidding. I'm not kidding.

1108
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 3: This is if you got to if you guys play Washington,

1109
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: if you look, you could care about one thing. You

1110
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 3: could care about posturing, or you can care about getting

1111
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 3: shit done. I can guarantee you the people who would

1112
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 3: be alive from you know, influencing Donald Trump, they don't

1113
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 3: care how you accomplish this. So if you are the

1114
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 3: Irish government or any of these other people were taking

1115
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 3: a little bit of a dissonance you know, policy or

1116
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: whatever towards Israel, that's how you should get it done.

1117
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 3: That's the only way is you have to feed him.

1118
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 3: You have to feed his ego. That's how it's gonna work.

1119
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm already prepping for myself on Ukraine,

1120
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 3: just to give people the background, like there is a

1121
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 3: titan fight behind the scenes going on right now over Ukraine,

1122
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,399
Speaker 3: because you have people like Mike Waltz and others who

1123
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 3: have completely different historical pass on the Ukraine issue and

1124
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: are willing to come along, but they're not going to

1125
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: do the work right. Some of the people who are

1126
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 3: actually going to be in charge of this policy, Keith

1127
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 3: Kellogg and a few others, are true believers, but you

1128
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 3: have to work your way through the bureaucracy to get

1129
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 3: that up. And then when I turn on Fox and Friends,

1130
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 3: the dumbest program on cable television, which Donald Trump watches

1131
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 3: every day is Brian Kilmead, who is a Ukraine fanatic.

1132
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: Right is like, still is absolutely I mean, he's not

1133
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: going to say it, but.

1134
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 3: I'm listen, some of us haven't forgotten on their ideology, Brian.

1135
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 3: Some of us have not forgotten, he says, old school

1136
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 3: neo khon Republican.

1137
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: He's worked at Fox News for twenty years and he's

1138
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: a brain.

1139
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 2: Just stopped calling themselves neo cons but did not change

1140
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: their ideology even in a sliver. You know, they just

1141
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 2: realize that the term has a negative connotation.

1142
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 4: Now, so oh, I'm not that, but I totally support

1143
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 4: every war that's ever existed.

1144
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 3: Right, So that's the thing about But my point is

1145
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 3: about the media environment. Right, So the media environment that

1146
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: Trump needs to consume is one which actually has some

1147
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 3: dissonance in it. Now that's helped a little bit because

1148
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: of Tucker being no longer at Fox News, and he's

1149
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 3: in his ear on Ukraine and on Iran.

1150
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: And a few other things that he can do. But

1151
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: he's just one man.

1152
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't ultimately, you know, truly affect everything

1153
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 3: through just being on the internet. We're dealing with what

1154
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 3: seventy nine year old man here at the end of

1155
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 3: the day. So yeah, look, I'm being very transparent, Like

1156
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 3: that's the one thing I'm gonna peg myself to is

1157
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 3: trying to end this war.

1158
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: I think it will be one of the biggest.

1159
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 3: Fights in the history of Washington because Afghanistan is nothing

1160
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: compared to the Cash Cow and the ideology around this,

1161
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 3: Like remember you know how Biden worshiped at the feet

1162
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 3: of NATO, Like that's.

1163
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: A real thing.

1164
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: Like people the Atlantic Council, the Carne.

1165
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 4: Every August viggers here with mile.

1166
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 3: That these people religiously pray to the god of NATO.

1167
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: There are people in my neighborhood who have NATO flags.

1168
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: Where do you even get a NATO flag? It's unbelievad.

1169
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it's still like Cold War hangovers quality, and

1170
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 2: it is wild how much that still really dominates the

1171
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: foreign policy blog in this town. I mean, I took

1172
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: very close note. Maybe in some of the later speeches

1173
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: in the day, Trump brought up Ukraine, but considering how

1174
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: much a focus it was among Republicans, how much of

1175
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 2: I mean, he talked a lot about it on the

1176
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 2: campaign trail. I think partly he didn't really bring it

1177
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 2: up because, I mean, he repeatedly promised, like it's going

1178
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 2: to be solid before I even get into office day one,

1179
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: we're going to have a deal. Obviously that didn't happen. So,

1180
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's an acknowledgment that even if

1181
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: he wants to end it, it's not like you can

1182
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 2: just this isn't one Israel. You could actually just snap

1183
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 2: your fingers and be like, we're not supplying these weapons anymore.

1184
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: You're gonna stop. We're not doing this like you could

1185
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 2: actually do that with Israel, Ukraine and Russia. It is

1186
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: a little different because you have to figet down to

1187
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: get that's.

1188
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 4: The table you got to, you know.

1189
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously there's a lot we could do, but

1190
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,399
Speaker 2: it's not a simple of a fix and it does

1191
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: require like real ideological consistency of sort that Donald Trump

1192
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: is frankly not particularly known for. And he has a

1193
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 2: soft spot for Zelensky too, and he's always likes the lens.

1194
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 3: So that's another thing I highly encourage people. Lex Friedman

1195
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 3: in his latest podcast did a breakdown of his Zelenski interview,

1196
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 3: and I don't think you would mind saying this to

1197
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time with him this weekend, and

1198
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 3: because he said it publicly, so I'll just repeat what

1199
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 3: he said, what he was telling me and what he

1200
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: also said publicly was His big takeaway from his Zelenski

1201
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 3: interview was it's.

1202
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: Not a show.

1203
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 3: He believes it, and he does not care about peace.

1204
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 3: He has no interest in peace. So Lex asked multiple

1205
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 3: iterations of peace questions to Zelensky. Zelensky has drank his

1206
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 3: own kool aid to the extent that he believes he

1207
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 3: is like Winston Churchill. And the policy which will Choir

1208
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 3: to force a political settlement on Zelenski, which is now

1209
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 3: the only option to achieve peace in Ukraine, is either

1210
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 3: we'd have to support a coup in Ukraine, which I

1211
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 3: don't think is a good idea, or I mean, maybe

1212
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 3: they could have their own elections. That's something Zelenski's not

1213
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 3: going to allow that to happen. We have there's the

1214
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 3: only option here basically is a return to some like

1215
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 3: you know, treaties from the eighteen hundreds, where Trump and

1216
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 3: Putin will sit across a desk from each other and

1217
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 3: just be like, here's the line of control. That's it,

1218
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: and then you go to the Ukraine and be like,

1219
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 3: this is what's happening. And I mean, as you know,

1220
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: and we were just discussing, do you know the political

1221
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 3: fallout from the freakout of the media here in Washington

1222
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 3: of forcing a political settlement on Tim. I don't think

1223
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 3: Zelenski will ever play ball based on what Lex told me.

1224
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: I could be wrong.

1225
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 3: I mean, at the end of the days a client state, right,

1226
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 3: He'd rather be alive than be you know, like be

1227
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 3: defeated and humiliated on the battlefield.

1228
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: But equally Trump would want to.

1229
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 3: Avoid that at all costs because look, even if Ukraine

1230
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 3: got taken over, I mean, I still wouldn't think it'd

1231
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 3: be worth going to nuclear war for it over. But

1232
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 3: as we all learn from Afghanistan, if you broadcast Cities

1233
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 3: Kiev twenty four to seven and turn this into a

1234
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 3: cause celeb it can go like this in public opinion.

1235
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 3: Public opinion is still not, in my opinion, great on Ukraine,

1236
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 3: and it's still number three issue that people rate Biden's

1237
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 3: effectiveness on it. There's a Boomer mentality about Russia that

1238
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 3: lives deep in the American mind.

1239
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1240
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 2: I mean it was really sold as like a values proposition,

1241
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people and I mean,

1242
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 2: and there is a value proposition there, Like that's not

1243
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: like our country doesn't have really the credibility to frame

1244
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: it as a values proposition. But this idea of like, no,

1245
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 2: we have this established order that you don't get to

1246
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 2: just push your weight around because you're the larger country,

1247
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 2: like Russia invading Ukraine was genuinely bad and wrong. But

1248
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 2: then you have to ask, like, Okay, given where we are,

1249
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 2: what is the best and most reasonable path forward?

1250
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 4: And the Ukrainians would have gotten a.

1251
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 2: Much better deal if instead of being interested in continuing

1252
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 2: this war, if we had been interested in negotiating a

1253
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 2: peaceful settlement. And that was really the massiveness opportunity, so

1254
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: many lives, so much destruction between then and now, only

1255
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 2: for Ukraine to be in a worst position, worst position

1256
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 2: in terms of what they're going to end up getting

1257
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 2: here at the end of the day, whenever this thing

1258
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: burns out. So I don't know if I don't know

1259
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 2: if I read the mediate landscape the same way you do,

1260
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: because I feel like there's a lot of Ukraine fatigue

1261
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 2: and also just less willingness to resist Trump's liketics than

1262
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 2: any particular direction.

1263
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: Jake tappergily wrote a book.

1264
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 2: No I expected the Afghanistan withdrawal or reaction.

1265
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 4: I definitely expected that.

1266
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 2: But with regards to Ukraine, I don't know. I think

1267
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: there is an increasing mainstream media acknowledgment that Ukrainians are

1268
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 2: not winning, that it's going to be impossible for them

1269
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 2: to get all of their territory back, and something is

1270
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 2: going to have to be figured out.

1271
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: I would nobody would like that more than me.

1272
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 3: Whether it actually happens, I don't know, I still think

1273
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 3: that these people have religious connections to Ukraine. They think

1274
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 3: Kiev is the fifty first state. It's crazy, like you know,

1275
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 3: the way that they think about the issue. And if

1276
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 3: there were ever, like if there was ever like real

1277
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 3: Afghanistan type images that came out, I do think it

1278
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 3: actually would cause a big problem for Trump. And at

1279
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 3: the end, like what is my theme of all my

1280
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 3: commentary here with Trump? Trump is a transactional, bigger and

1281
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 3: Afghanistan influence.

1282
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 2: The Afghanistan example is instructive because he knew it was

1283
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 2: popular in theory to gain out of Afghanistan. But there's

1284
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: a reason why he didn't pull the trigger because when

1285
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 2: you end a war, guess what, then you had to

1286
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 2: actually grapple with the reality of what was accomplished and

1287
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: failed in all of those things over those years. And

1288
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 2: so it wouldn't be quite the same event as Afghanistan

1289
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: because obviously we didn't have troops directly there, it was

1290
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: a shorter time period, et cetera.

1291
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 4: But you know, Biden that he was popular.

1292
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 2: Biden was up until the Afghan WITHDRAWALKEM and it did

1293
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: NUKEM and he never recovered. And obviously there were other

1294
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 2: things that contributed to that negative sentiment towards him. But

1295
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 2: that really was kind of the beginning of the end

1296
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: of his presidency, unfortunately, because it's one of the best

1297
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 2: things that he actually did and one of the more

1298
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: courageous things that.

1299
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 4: He actually did.

1300
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: But nothing will form a bipartisan consensus faster than you know,

1301
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: trying to not be in a war. They will unite

1302
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: against you, Fox and CNN and MSNBC. Man, they will

1303
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: all be seeing in the exact same tune the minute

1304
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 2: that you try to exit or avoid a potential war.

1305
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: And yeah, I do think that Trump is quite aware

1306
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 2: of that.