WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Fred Hammond Part 2 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:10.000 Quest Love Show is a production of iHeartRadio. What Up People? 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:12.799 June is here and that means it's Black Music Month 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:15.800 and that Quest Love Supreme now the Quest Love Show. 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.040 We've taken this month seriously. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.880 It's our chance to celebrate blat music, document its history, 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.080 and recognize the impact it continues to have on our 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.080 culture around the world. Throughout June, we'll be bringing you 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:30.680 an episode every day. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:32.560 My team and I have gone. 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.040 Back through the archives and pulled together conversations, stories and 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.360 moments that helped tell a biggest story about black music 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.520 and the people who shaped it. We also got four 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:48.320 brand new Quest Love Show episodes coming your way, spotlighting artists, thinkers, innovators, 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:53.800 cultural shifters, revolutionaries from across the spectrum of black music, past, 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.240 present and future. Thanks for spending you're a part of 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:58.000 June with us. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:00:59.840 Happy Black Music Month? 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:07.440 All right? Yo? What up? 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:08.280 Sponsor the Low? 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.840 Last week we got into part one of our interview 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.280 with him and and y'all heard that one. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.920 Get ready for part two. We go even deep and 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.440 it's even better. Quest Love Supremes and the House y'all. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:26.280 Yep, I asked you initially then we got sidetracked, but 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.920 can you just briefly talk about what the gospel circuit 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:36.280 is like in remember I told you that the whole thing, Like, okay, 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.880 you're touring with the Winings, what is what is a 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.840 working musician making with the winings? 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:47.640 In nineteen eighty eighty one just keep it and tel 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:48.560 conditions like. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.680 Yeah, are y'all in one hotel and the wine is 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:53.360 in another one? 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.760 Eighteen were the same. 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:57.880 There is there a rider. 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.880 I just want to know, like what a working musician 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.440 makes in the gospel circuit? Like are you playing chess churches? 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.880 Is it banquet halls? Is the theaters? 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:11.520 Like take me through? Are you get me a gig? 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.960 Darmming with the with the Winings? It explained to me 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:15.800 the whole process. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.120 Okay, So the Winings when they came out their record, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.919 they had a great manager. They had a couple of 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:24.040 great managers, Derek Dirtson was one of them, a couple 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.440 of other people, and they had writers, you know, down 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:31.920 to just like a because these managers managed secular acts. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:36.639 So they had writers, and we were doing mainly theaters, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.639 and back at that time they had this thing called 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.440 the World's Greatest Gospel Show. James Cleveland, mighty clouds, and 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.400 they were doing arenas. They were doing literal arenas like 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.400 Cobo Hall or something. And so we did a lot 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.240 of big, big dates. When we did a church, we 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.880 felt like, you know, it was beneath us, you know, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.760 even church with big because we were used to not 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.400 doing churches. The Wine has had a thing that they said, 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.359 we don't want to play churches because we don't want 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.520 to alienate some people don't want to come to church, 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.079 and we want everybody to hear our music. So we 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.239 did a lot of theaters, you know, did a lot 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:17.080 of theaters, uh Beacon Theater. We did Radio City, We 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.800 did a lot of a lot of things. So they 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.000 had a writer. We all stayed in the hotel. We 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.120 traveled by Greyhound, bus and van. Every now and then 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:32.440 we would we would fly, but we we we traveled. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.400 We didn't have no problem loading up in a sixteen 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.480 passenger you know and hiding down the road. You know. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.360 So that was the case. But here's let's let's talk 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:47.920 about the money. Thank you. It got strange, It got 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.480 really weird, got weird. I started off making because I 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.800 knew they were charging like three fifth thirty five hundred 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.240 the night. Then they were moving up four thousand dollars 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.400 that they were moving up the ranks, and they we 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.320 started off making two fifty a night, and we was like, man, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:08.080 this is great money. Well, somebody told them, like, you know, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.560 as you guys make more money, the band is going 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.159 to make less money. And they took that wrong. So 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.599 when they went up to forty five hundred, we went 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.600 down to one seventy five. When they went up to 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:28.240 five thousand, we went down to like one hundred. They 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.440 got down to fifty dollars a night because they were like, hey, hey, 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.240 you know what else y'all gonna play? Well, who else 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:37.240 y'all gonna play for? You know, we don't we the 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.159 only kind of game in town, you know. And we 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.800 literally got down to fifty dollars a night. And I 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:51.200 was on welfare. I was literally collecting unemployment and having 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:52.960 to go out of town. So I go to Oakland. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:55.719 I have to stop off at the unemployment office. I 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.480 go into I go into KFC right next to the 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.200 unemployment office. Say hey, y'all looking for anybody, y'all got applications? 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.400 They say, now, we ain't hiring and not going to 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:10.200 in the in the job. Yeah, and they say, okay, cool, 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.480 I signed, I go back. I beget like my fifty 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.560 dollars from the Wine's three nights, I got a pluck 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.760 fifty plus. That wasn't per diem. That your perdaem was 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.080 in your pay So I'm going wait, wait wait wait 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.480 wait wait oh wow. It was it was kind of 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.440 it was it was it was, it was. It was 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.240 a thing. You know, how did you let it get that? Man? 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:35.800 Why did why did you guys. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:36.440 Let it get to that point? 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:37.920 Like that was yo? 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.240 I mean, I'm just curious as like you didn't nobody 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.520 ever say anything like okay, now it's one hundred, that's no. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:47.719 No. My drummer, my my, my, one of my best 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.279 friends in the group at the time, his name was 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.800 Sandy loved it. He was a great drummer, and he 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.480 just got your point, said, man, I can't go out 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.560 for this. I got to get a job. I'm going 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.880 to give me a job at Chrystler. And we had 0:05:58.960 --> 0:06:02.040 meetings like guys, can we get more money? And they 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.120 were at a place where they were so hot. They 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.200 were like, if you don't want to play, you know 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.560 somebody else, And that was just the way it was. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.640 And they weren't me, and they would just call themselves 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.960 being business people. And I stayed as long as I 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.640 physically could. I was making I literally man was on 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:24.279 welfare and playing and I just stuck it, hung in there. 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.559 I never forget we'd do went to California for a month, 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.640 and I had to pay for my own food. Every 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:32.320 now and then they would pay for our food. You know, 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.560 come on and sit on down. But they only had 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.560 a few gigs. We probably had seven gigs out there, 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.039 so fifty times seven is what it was. And I 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.560 had to eat. So when I went home, I probably 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.480 went home literally with like one hundred and eighty bucks 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:51.000 in my pocket. If yeah what I'm saying. But my 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.360 thing was, I loved it so much and I thought, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.080 at being young and gouble, I'm like, well, this is 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.640 how it goes. I'm not leaving. This is the best 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.559 place for me, So it's not gonna be about money. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.080 I didn't realize. I was learning it's not about money. 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:08.960 When you do this, you got to have a passion. 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:10.800 So that's what it was. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:13.440 Another question I always wanted to know. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.880 I'm you know, I grew up in uh uh, you know, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.880 a household with at least three thousand records. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.960 I'm very, very very familiar with the. 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.080 Light label, so I know about the history of Ralph 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:33.280 Carmichael a man and whatnot. Could you explain that for 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.400 our listeners and to me too, because I know very little, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:43.440 Like was like a Detroit label, and like why were 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.840 why was that the was that the go to? Was 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.240 that the motown of gospel labels back then? 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:56.920 It was Andre Crouch made Light Records. Andre Crouch were 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:02.520 really good friends and Ralph and invested in Andre's earliest music, 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.920 you know, and then Andre just blew it up, man, 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.080 and just he just that's what did it. That's what 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.000 did it. Andre Crouch built Light Records, and then the 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.440 Winers went. At that same time, Andre had a little 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.960 something and they had to kind of part ways. Andre 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.080 went to Warner Brothers, you know, from there, and so 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.360 the Winings ran Light Records, and Light Records was a 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.720 major major force. But it was from La they lived. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.320 They were out in Pasadena and somewhere out there, and 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.560 you know out there that's where Light Records was. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.480 The Hawkers too. The Hawkers were. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.520 In the Bay Area and they were on Light Yeah, 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.320 the first record and all of their records were on 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.360 Light Records. Yeah, Light was the major lay with that. 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:48.280 For Word Records hadn't even come into play yet, you know, 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:54.480 Light was the thing. And then Ralph he retired and 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:59.319 gave his reins over to another guy. And that's when 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.600 commission came man, and we salvage because we were making 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.840 money for Light Records. You know, we was really turning 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:06.520 some records off. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.880 Okay, so now that we're there, can you please tell 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:15.200 me just the average creative at least for I'm going 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.400 on and the go tellus, like your first two records, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.120 can you tell me what the creative process is for 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:23.320 making those albums? 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:27.240 As in, who's the alpha that makes the decisions? Who? 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:28.000 How do you guys? 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.240 Especially, I mean there's six of you or seven of you, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.240 six of you, like, is it really democratic or is 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.040 it just like what you say goes or what? 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:38.400 Like? 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:42.200 What's the as Fonte would say, sort of the division 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.120 of labor in creating these records? 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.840 Man, I was good, and I've always been good at delegating, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.640 you know, I understood it. So I broke the group 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:58.520 up into two pieces because the singers, Carl Mitchell and 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.480 Keith they were really Mitchell was he was. He was 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.400 kind of key in learning the music side, but I 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.360 had a very funk background, so I would divide it 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.480 up into here's the singers, this is what we do, 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.280 and then it was Michael Brooks and myself, Me and Mike. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.120 Mike was a keyboard player and he was the songwriter, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.160 so we would take his songs. He would say this 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.680 is this, this, this, this, and then we would add 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.440 the flare to we put the swag on it. Mitchell 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.360 and I would put the swag on it, and I 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:33.160 was It was never about me, you know, running the show. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.720 We were just glad that Mike Brooks was such a 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.559 good songwriter. He was phenomenal. All of them songs back 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.120 then basically came from him. We didn't even know anything 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.560 about songwriting. He was teaching us, but we took his 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:49.320 songs and we made them as good as they could be. So, 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.240 you know, we just we understood that level. So I 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.280 was really a producer from that angle. Mike was the writer, 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:00.920 arranger and producer, so we worked well together. You know. 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:04.760 We we never saw anything different from Timmy, Jimmy and 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.720 Terry or or from Babyface in La so we just 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:11.000 took it that you know, you work together, you know, 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.640 whatever you feel, how you feel about that? He said, 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.840 oh I like that. I say, well, I like what 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.360 you're doing. So we just did that and it worked, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.400 you know what I mean? That was up. 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.400 What was the in terms of stacking you'll recording your 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.200 background vocals? 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:24.959 What was that process? 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.600 Like John Yash a good friend of mine, great great engineer. 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:34.280 He ended up getting fired off our first record because 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:34.760 a lot of. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:39.319 Firing going on in the commission, yall was getting people 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:45.440 out of there. Cut never heard the word fire so much. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.920 So here's what we were doing. We heard a different 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.480 sound from what everybody else heard when it comes to the background. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.760 So we took and we stacked you know, each part, 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:01.640 you know four four and for and and our backgrounds 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.719 were more Clark Sisters. One of the songs that we 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:05.720 learned our first song. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:08.079 When you say real quick, just so when you say 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.800 four four four are each one of y'all like four 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.200 of y'all singing the same part, and y'all are tracking 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:14.520 four of us. 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.640 Singing and racking. We sing two tracks because it was 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:19.559 twenty four track at that time, so we really had 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.680 to manage you jump. So we were singing the bottom, 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.280 then we sing the middle. Then sometimes Mitchell Carlin and 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.160 I would sing the top, or just Mitchell Carlin mitchellul 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.160 singing the top. So we had six tracks of vocals, 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.320 but we we had intrigates parts because we were always 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.200 concentrating on the Clark systems. Our first song we ever 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.440 learned in my mother's in my mother's living room was 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:50.840 lookith it's the plain speed a praise speed rain lood 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.720 hell me to ze. Yeah. When we sang that and 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.719 learned that, man, we ran out like we ran a 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.400 grand We jumped off off the porch. We learned it. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.200 So we said, this is how our vocals are going 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.920 to be. So now we're singing this song. If we 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:10.679 have a lead, lord be full, sure they and we're 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:16.440 singing it. And sure they need surely we need sure they, 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:21.720 we need him na. And when we did that part, 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.640 we were amazed. But the engineer said, no, you can't 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.400 have the vocals up that loud. They need to be 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.640 back here. I said, but they don't sound good back there. 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.280 We want them up louder because it's like background leads. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.040 And we had a thing because nobody was doing it 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.920 that way. So finally he put him where he wanted 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.040 him and we just said okay. Cool. I went into 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.960 the stage manager, I mean the studio manager. I told her. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.559 I said, you know, we need to get our masters. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:54.760 She said you leave it. Yeah, and she said why. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.360 I said, I didn't want to get him, you know fired, 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:01.839 I want you know? He said, well, we think our 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:05.640 voice woes sound better up here. He said, who's paying 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:07.560 for this? Is he paying for this? We pay? Are 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.560 you paying? And I said we are. She said, you 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.480 better grow a pair. I'm gonna teach you how to 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.040 be a man. Record next week came back. It was 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.640 a different engineer there and he turned it up wherever 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.640 we wanted and the commission sound was berthed. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:21.880 I love it. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.400 The very next album though, we went back with John 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.520 and he got it and he was here with. 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:33.240 The assignment brother, brother Hammond. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:39.120 Can you explain the influence and what makes the Clark 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.000 sisters their sound or their blend, like, what makes it 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:48.560 so spe than anyone's form a background blending or whatnot? 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.040 Twinkie fun word Twinky Clark. 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.920 At that time, Twinkie Clark, Twinkie was Stevie to us 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.800 how she played when she sat down to how she played, 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.200 how she arranged her harmonies and what she did it 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.680 was just amazing. And so you have Karen and Derinda 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.080 and you have you had Denise at that time, and 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.560 Jackie and Tweinakie was giving out these crazy parts and 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.200 these crazy chords and it was blowing us all the way. 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:21.120 It was amazing. If you go back and listen to it, 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.880 the recordings weren't that great productionalizing sonically, you know, there's 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:27.800 a lot of mistakes that kept going. But if you 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:32.480 listen to the heart of Twinkie Clark's arranged, it was 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.080 just with like that praying spirit. That is an amazing song. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.960 That was our north star to say, we want to 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.000 make people feel like this about our record because at 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.560 that time we didn't want to sound like the Windings 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.520 because they were kind of straight ahead, you know, four 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.880 Tops Temptations, you know, they they were that we wanted 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:58.880 to be different. They were that time, go back to 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.160 go back to go active. Question is no no no 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.320 no no no no no no no no, just straight. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:07.920 So to you to you. 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:14.120 That was regular, just regular flat like harmony one on one. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:15.160 It was one o one. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.960 My My parents lived for that record. 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:21.360 So I'm growing up thinking that the Winings are the 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:27.240 epicenter of you know, and the absolute force of gospel singing. 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:31.200 But for you that was just normalized. And the Clark 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:33.320 sisters were top shelf. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.800 It was as far as being creative, the Clarks were 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:41.840 top shelf. As far as the blend the Whinings brothers, 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.840 there was a blend like no other because they were family. 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.800 So we took the we took the polished of the Winings, 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.520 and we took the creativity of the Clark sisters. And 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.000 that's what commissioned. So if the Winings commission and Clark 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.040 Sists got together, then they produced us, you know what 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.120 I'm saying. So that's what you hear, you know. But 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:08.159 it was about Twinkie. Twinkie was beast. She was a beast. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:12.120 She was she was amazing, and that's where we got 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:17.640 it from. 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.320 So okay, actually, I want to direct this to James 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.719 because here's the deal. Again, we're not you know, at 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.240 the top of the show, I explained that when I 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.919 was in high school it was almost like a gang experience, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.119 and I'm at performing arts school and you got like 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:33.880 one cat. 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.240 Like Kurt Rosenwinkles into Frank Zappa, So you got to 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.120 learn his language. 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.800 But then like Chris McBride and Joey Di Francesco are 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.040 heavy jazz cats, so you got to listen to like 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.399 anything on Blue Note. And then of course, you know, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.959 my partner Triga is hip hop and whatnot. And so 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:55.640 there was the fourth category of cats who only lived 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.400 for Commission. And so you know, like I, even though 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.359 we didn't go to this same school together, like little 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:07.280 John Roberts as a drummer, was how I knew commission. 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.399 Because the thing is, you know, like I'm thinking, like 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.879 with my legacy of who my dad was and whatnot'm 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.800 finally like in a high school situation which I could 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.199 play like all city jazz band all that stuff. So 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.080 I'm thinking, like the red carpet is just ready for 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:22.560 me and like, you know, for me to get my 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.600 thing on. And little John Roberts, who's way younger than 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.679 I was, Like he's like three four years younger. You 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.840 know this, this little you know, eighth grade runt is 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.679 playing like an adult and I'm like, wait what and 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.880 he's little John's let me know, like like. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:41.560 You don't know about Commission. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.920 And I'm realizing, you know, cause again I was team 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.280 Prince that's that's who. That's who I chose that you know, 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.840 sprints the time and all that stuff. I wasn't him 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.960 to commission. And yet all my peers, like all those 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:03.960 first generation monster Cats were just like taking every word 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:08.240 as like bond so for you, for you, James, like 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.840 how how much of their work, like was influential to 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.920 you coming up in your dad's church and whatnot? 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.040 Oh my see, I grew up and my father's a 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:26.400 bishop and a Jamaican bishop, which means that we ain't 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.280 We couldn't do nothing. As my dad said, you count 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.360 do this, your count do that. 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:36.680 He had to sneak to listen to commission. 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.040 No, no, no, no, no no. That was the only 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.600 those are the only records that I could listen to, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.399 you know, we I grew up, you know, the records 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.919 that were in the house where the Andree Crouch and 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.080 the Hawkens and so forth and so listen to that. 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:55.840 But when commission came, it was like this is something new. 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.399 All my musician buddies at the time that grew up 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.440 in the church were like, yo, if you you check 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:06.280 this out. The very beginning of. 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.399 Going on, it was like what is that? 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.800 So it was like we had something, we had something 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.040 cool to listen to, you know what I mean, something 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:18.360 that was yeah, something that was. 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:17.960 Explained to me. 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:23.440 What year did gospel stop really let itself go of? 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:30.000 Like the Gospel Quartet, Like when did gospel really let go? 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:34.360 Because even now I collect, like I love collecting gospel 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.240 records that will take that one secular song and turn 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:41.880 it into a gospel song like Shalamar second time around, 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:44.600 or you know there's a whispers and the beat goes 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:45.800 on gospel version. 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.760 There's a Lovely Day that's gospelized. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:50.880 You know, there's always that one token song where they 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.919 like take a secular song and do it. 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.120 But the rest of this stuff is like old time gospel. 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.840 At what point in the gospel world do you not 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:06.800 have to feel shame that you're making people dance and 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.880 not playing the regular gospel time old time you. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.760 Brought the sunshine maybe right, I mean Clark. 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:17.880 Sisters, Yeah, what the sunshine? 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.200 I mean that was master Blast. 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:24.440 Yeah, so that's the first time in which, like. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.480 I mean, if you go back to Edward Hawker, edwind Hawkins, 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:29.400 the Oh Happy Day too, you know what I mean? 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:34.240 So even then, like that's still gospel to me. 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:38.359 But like, what's the point where, like you know, where 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.840 you if you take the vocals away, it could be 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:47.639 a secular song, Like at at what point does that happen? 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.040 It really took hold with B B and CCS first, 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:52.680 I owe you. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.639 Mean, yes, I got it right. I was thinking that, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:55.800 but I didn't want to say it out loud. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:22:00.600 Thank you, Fred. I'm thinking that's when it really took 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:02.720 hold because the people didn't know if there was a 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.320 love song album. Yeah, you know, and that's when it 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:12.199 got popular to actually sing music. Steve Thomas was the 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.000 was the producer at that time. He was a white 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:17.280 girl with a lot of song in heaven. 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:19.800 He did a lot of Vanessa Williams stuff too. 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.320 Yeah. Yeah, so that's what it really kicked in. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.920 So when you're playing in church, are there any elders 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:31.240