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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: YO, What Up sponsor the Loo.

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Speaker 3: Last week we got into part one of our interview

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Speaker 3: with Fred him and and.

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Speaker 4: Y'all heard that one. Get ready for part two.

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Speaker 2: We go even deep and it's even better Quest Love

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Speaker 2: Supremes and the.

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Speaker 5: House y'all yep, I asked you initially then we got sidetracked,

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Speaker 5: but can you just briefly talk about what the gospel

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Speaker 5: circuit is like in remember I told you that the

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Speaker 5: whole thing? Like, okay, you're touring with the Winings? What

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Speaker 5: is what is a working musician making with the Winings?

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Speaker 5: In nineteen eighty eighty one? Just keep it tel conditions

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Speaker 5: like yeah, are.

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Speaker 2: Y'all in one hotel and the wine is in another one?

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Speaker 2: Eighteen were the same.

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Speaker 4: There is there a rider.

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Speaker 5: I just want to know, like what a working musician

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Speaker 5: makes in the gospel circuit? Like are you playing chess churches?

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Speaker 5: Is it banquet halls? Is the theaters? Like take me

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Speaker 5: through you give me a gig? Darumming with the with

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Speaker 5: the Whinings. It explained to me.

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Speaker 4: The whole process.

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Speaker 6: Okay, So the Winings when they came out their record,

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Speaker 6: they had a great manager they had a couple of

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Speaker 6: great managers, Derek Dirtson was one of them, a couple

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Speaker 6: of other people, and they had writers, you know, down

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Speaker 6: to just like a because these managers managed secular acts.

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Speaker 6: So they had writers. And we were doing mainly theaters,

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Speaker 6: and back at that time they had this thing called

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Speaker 6: the World's Greatest Gospel Show, James Cleveland, Mighty Clouds, and

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Speaker 6: they were doing arenas. They were doing literal arenas like

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Speaker 6: Cobo Hall or something, and so we did a lot

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Speaker 6: of big, big dates. When we did a church, we

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Speaker 6: felt like, you know, it was beneath us, you know,

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Speaker 6: even church with big because we were used to not

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Speaker 6: doing churches. The Wine has had a thing that they said,

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Speaker 6: we don't want to play churches because we don't want

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Speaker 6: to alienate some people don't want to come to church,

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Speaker 6: and we want everybody to hear our music. So we

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Speaker 6: did a lot of theaters, you know, did a lot

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Speaker 6: of theaters, Beacon Theater, we did Radio City, We did

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Speaker 6: a lot of a lot of things. So they had

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Speaker 6: a writer. We all stayed in the hotel. We traveled

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Speaker 6: by Greyhound bus and van. Every now and then we

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Speaker 6: would we would fly, but we we we traveled. We

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Speaker 6: didn't have no problem loading up in a sixteen passenger,

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Speaker 6: you know and hiding down the road. You know. So

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Speaker 6: that was the case. But here's let's let's talk about

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Speaker 6: the money, thank you. It got strange, It got really weird,

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Speaker 6: got weird. I started off making because I knew they

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Speaker 6: were charging like three fifth thirty five hundred the night.

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Speaker 6: Then they were moving up four thousand dollars that they

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Speaker 6: were moving up the ranks, and they we started off

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Speaker 6: making two fifty a night, and we was like, man,

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Speaker 6: this is great money. Well somebody told them, like, you know,

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Speaker 6: as you guys make more money, the band is going

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Speaker 6: to make less money. And they took that wrong. So

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Speaker 6: when they went up to forty five hundred, we went

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Speaker 6: down to one seventy five. When they went up to

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Speaker 6: five thousand, we went down to like one hundred. It

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Speaker 6: got down to fifty dollars a night because they were like, hey, hey,

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Speaker 6: you know what else y'all gonna play? Well, who else

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Speaker 6: y'all gonna play for? You know, we don't we the

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Speaker 6: only kind of game in town, you know. And we

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Speaker 6: literally got down to fifty dollars a night, and I

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Speaker 6: was on welfare. I was literally collecting unemployment and having

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Speaker 6: to go out of town. So I go to Oakland.

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Speaker 6: I have to stop off at the unemployment office. I

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Speaker 6: go into I go into KFC right next to the

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Speaker 6: unemployment office. Say hey, y'all looking for anybody. Y'all got applications.

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Speaker 6: They say, now, we ain't hiring and not going to

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Speaker 6: in the in the.

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Speaker 7: Job.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and they say, okay, cool I signed. I go

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Speaker 6: back because like my fifty dollars from the wine's three nights,

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Speaker 6: I got a pluck fifty plus that wasn't per diem.

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Speaker 6: That your perdaem was in your pay.

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Speaker 8: So I'm going wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, oh.

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Speaker 6: Wow, it was. It was kind of it was it was,

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Speaker 6: it was, it was. It was a thing.

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Speaker 8: You know, how did you let it get that man?

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Speaker 8: Why did why did you guys let it get to

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Speaker 8: that point?

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Speaker 4: Like that was yo?

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Speaker 8: I mean, I'm just curious, as like you didn't nobody

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Speaker 8: ever say anything like okay, now it's one hundred, that's no.

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Speaker 6: No. My drummer, my my, my, one of my best

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Speaker 6: friends in the group at the time, his name was

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Speaker 6: Sandy loved it. He was a great drummer and he

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Speaker 6: just got your point, said man, I can't go out

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Speaker 6: for this. I got to get a job. I'm going

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Speaker 6: to give me a job at Chrystler. And we had

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Speaker 6: meetings like guys, can we get more money? And they

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Speaker 6: were at a place where they were so hot. They

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Speaker 6: were like, if you don't want to play, you know

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Speaker 6: somebody else. And that was just the way it was.

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Speaker 6: And they weren't me, and they would just call themselves

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Speaker 6: being business people. And I stayed as long as I

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Speaker 6: physically could. I was making I literally man was on

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Speaker 6: welfare and playing, and I just stuck hung in there.

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Speaker 6: I never forget we'd do. Went to California for a month,

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Speaker 6: and I had to pay for my own food every

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Speaker 6: now and then they would pay for our food. You know,

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Speaker 6: come on and sit on down. But they only had

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Speaker 6: a few gigs. We probably had seven gigs out there,

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Speaker 6: so fifty times seven is what it was. And I

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Speaker 6: had to eat. So when I went home, I probably

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Speaker 6: went home literally with like one hundred and eighty bucks

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Speaker 6: in my pocket.

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Speaker 8: If yeah what I'm saying.

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Speaker 6: But my thing was, I loved it so much and

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Speaker 6: I thought, at being young and gumble, I'm like, well

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Speaker 6: this is how it goes. I'm not leaving. This is

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Speaker 6: the best place for me. So it's not gonna be

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Speaker 6: about money. I didn't realize I was learning it's not

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Speaker 6: about money. When you do this, you got to have

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Speaker 6: a passion. So that's what it was.

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Speaker 4: Another question I always wanted to know.

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Speaker 5: I'm you know, I grew up in uh uh, you know,

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Speaker 5: a household with at least three thousand records. I'm very,

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Speaker 5: very very familiar with the Light label, so I know

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Speaker 5: about the history of Ralph Carmichael, a man and whatnot.

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Speaker 5: Could you explain that for our listeners and to me too,

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Speaker 5: because I know very little, Like was like a Detroit label,

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Speaker 5: and like why were why was that the was that

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Speaker 5: the go to? Was that the motown of gospel labels

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Speaker 5: back then?

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Speaker 6: It was Andre Crouch made Light Records. Andre Crouch were

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Speaker 6: really good friends and Ralph in in Andre's earliest music,

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Speaker 6: you know, and then Andre just blew it up, man,

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Speaker 6: and just he just that's what did it. That's what

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Speaker 6: did it. Andre Crouch built Light Records, and then the

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Speaker 6: Winers went. At that same time, Andre had a little

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Speaker 6: something and they had to kind of part ways. Andre

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Speaker 6: went to Warner Brothers, you know, from there, and so

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Speaker 6: the Winings ran Light Records, and Light Records was a major,

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Speaker 6: major force. But it was from La they lived. They

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Speaker 6: were out in Pasadena and somewhere out there, and you

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Speaker 6: know out there that's where Light Records was.

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Speaker 4: The Hawkers too, The Hawkers were.

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Speaker 6: In the Bay area and they were on Light. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: The first record and all of their records were on

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Speaker 6: Light Records. Yeah. Light was the major lay with that.

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Speaker 6: For Word Records hadn't even come into play yet, you know,

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Speaker 6: Light was the thing. And then Ralph he retired and

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Speaker 6: gave his reins over to another guy. And that's when

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Speaker 6: Commission came in and we salvage because we were making

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Speaker 6: money for Light Records. You know, we was really turning

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Speaker 6: some records off.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so now that we're there, can you please tell

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Speaker 5: me just the average creative at least for I'm going

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Speaker 5: on and the go tellus, like your first two records,

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Speaker 5: can you tell me what the creative process is for

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Speaker 5: making those albums, as in, who's the alpha that makes

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Speaker 5: the decisions?

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Speaker 4: Who?

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Speaker 5: How do you guys especially, I mean there's six of

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Speaker 5: you or seven of you, six of you, like, is

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Speaker 5: it really democratic or is it just like what you

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Speaker 5: say goes or what like, what's the as Fonte would say,

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Speaker 5: sort of the division of labor in creating these records.

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Speaker 6: Man, I was good, and I've always been good at delegating,

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Speaker 6: you know, I understood it. So I broke the group

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Speaker 6: up into two pieces because the singers, Carl Mitchell and

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Speaker 6: Keith they weren't really Mitchell was.

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Speaker 4: He was.

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Speaker 6: He was kind of key in learning the music side,

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Speaker 6: but I had a very funk background. So I would

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Speaker 6: divide it up into here's the singers, this is what

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Speaker 6: we do, and then it was Michael Brooks and myself,

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Speaker 6: Me and Mike. Mike was a keyboard player and he

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Speaker 6: was the songwriter, so we would take his songs. He

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Speaker 6: would say this is this, this, this this, and then

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Speaker 6: we would add the flare to we put the swag

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Speaker 6: on it. Mitchell and I would put the swag on it,

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Speaker 6: and I was it was never about me, you know,

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Speaker 6: running the show. We were just glad that Mike Brooks

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Speaker 6: was such a good songwriter. He was phenomenal. All of

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Speaker 6: them songs back then basically came from him. We didn't

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Speaker 6: even know anything about songwriting. He was teaching us, but

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Speaker 6: we took his songs and we made them as good

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Speaker 6: as they could be. So, you know, we just we

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Speaker 6: understood that level. So I was really a producer from

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Speaker 6: that angle. Mike was the writer, arranger and producer. So

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Speaker 6: we worked well together. You know. We we never saw

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Speaker 6: anything different from Timmy, Jimmy and Terry or or from

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Speaker 6: Babyface in La. So we just took it that. You know,

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Speaker 6: you work together, you know whatever you feel. How you

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Speaker 6: feel about that, He said, oh I like that. I say, well,

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Speaker 6: I like what you're doing. So we just did that

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Speaker 6: and it worked, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: That was up.

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Speaker 2: What was the in terms of stacking all recording your

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Speaker 2: background vocals? What was that process?

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Speaker 6: Like John Yash a good friend of mine, great great engineer,

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Speaker 6: He ended up getting fired off our first record because a.

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Speaker 4: Lot of firing going on in the commission.

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Speaker 2: Ya was getting people out of there, cud.

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Speaker 6: I never heard the word fire so much. So here's

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Speaker 6: what we were doing. We heard a different sound from

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Speaker 6: what everybody else heard when it comes to the background. So

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Speaker 6: we took and we stacked you know, each part, you know,

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Speaker 6: four fur and for and our backgrounds were more Clark Sisteries.

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Speaker 6: One of the songs that we learned our first song.

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Speaker 3: When you say real quick, just so when you say

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Speaker 3: four four four are each one of y'all like four

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Speaker 3: of y'all singing the same part, and y'all are tracking

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Speaker 3: four of us.

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Speaker 6: Singing and racking. We sing two tracks because it was

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Speaker 6: twenty four track at that time, so we really had

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Speaker 6: to manage you jump. So we were singing the bottom,

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Speaker 6: then we sing the middle. Then sometimes Mitchell Carlin and

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Speaker 6: I would sing the top, or just Mitchell Carlin mitchellul

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Speaker 6: singing the top. So we had six tracks of vocals,

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Speaker 6: but we we had intrigates parts because we were always

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Speaker 6: concentrating on the Clark systems. Our first song we ever

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Speaker 6: learned in my mother's in my mother's living room was Loukith.

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Speaker 6: It's the plain speed a praise speed rain lood hell

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Speaker 6: me to ze. Yeah. When we sang that and learned that, man,

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Speaker 6: we ran out like we ran a grand We jumped

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Speaker 6: off off the porch. We learned it. So we said,

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Speaker 6: this is how our vocals are going to be. So

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Speaker 6: now we're singing this song. If we have a lord

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Speaker 6: be full, sure they and we're singing it, and sure

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Speaker 6: they need surely we need sure they we need him na.

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Speaker 6: And when we did that part. We were amazed, but

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Speaker 6: the engineer said, no, you can't have the vocals up

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Speaker 6: that loud. They need to be back here. I said,

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Speaker 6: but they don't sound good back there. We want them

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Speaker 6: up louder because it's like background leads. And we had

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Speaker 6: a thing because nobody was doing it that way. So

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Speaker 6: finally he put him where he wanted him and we

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Speaker 6: just said, okay. Cool. I went into the stage manager,

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Speaker 6: I mean the studio manager. I told her. I said,

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Speaker 6: you know, we need to get our masters. She said,

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Speaker 6: you leave it. Yeah, and she said why I said,

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Speaker 6: I didn't want to get him, you know, fired I

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Speaker 6: want you know. He said, well, we think our voice

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Speaker 6: woes sound better up here. He said, who's paying for this?

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Speaker 6: Is he paying for this? We pay? Are you paying?

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Speaker 6: And I said we are. She said, you better grow

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Speaker 6: a pair. I'm gonna teach you how to be a man.

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Speaker 6: You record next week came back. It was a different

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Speaker 6: engineer there, and he turned it up wherever we wanted,

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Speaker 6: and the commission sound was berthed it. The very next album, though,

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Speaker 6: we went back with John and he got it and

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Speaker 6: he was here with the assignment.

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Speaker 4: Brother brother Hammond.

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Speaker 5: Can you explain the influence and what makes the Clark

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Speaker 5: sisters their sound or their blend, like, what makes it

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Speaker 5: so spad than anyone's form a background blending or whatnot.

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Speaker 2: Twinkie fun word Twinky Clark.

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Speaker 6: At that time, Twinkie Clark, Twinkie was Stevie to us.

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Speaker 6: How she played when she sat down to how she played,

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Speaker 6: how she arranged her arm andes and what she did.

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Speaker 6: It was just amazing. And so you have Karen and

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Speaker 6: Derinda and you have you had Denise at that time,

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Speaker 6: and Jackie and Tweinky was giving out these crazy parts

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Speaker 6: and these crazy chords and it was blowing us all

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Speaker 6: the way. It was amazing. If you go back and

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Speaker 6: listen to it, the recordings weren't that great productionalizing sonically,

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Speaker 6: you know, there's a lot of mistakes that kept going.

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Speaker 6: But if you listen to the heart of Twinkie Clark's

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Speaker 6: arranged it was just with like that praying spirit. That

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Speaker 6: is an amazing song. That was our north star to say,

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Speaker 6: we want to make people feel like this about our

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Speaker 6: record because at that time we didn't want to sound

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Speaker 6: like the Windings because they were kind of straight ahead,

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Speaker 6: you know, four Tops Temptations. You know, they they were

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Speaker 6: that they were We wanted to be different.

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Speaker 2: They were that.

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Speaker 6: Go back to go back to, go back to question

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Speaker 6: is no no no no no no no no no no,

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Speaker 6: just straight on that.

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Speaker 4: So to you, to you, that was regular, just regular

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Speaker 4: flat like harmony. One on one.

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Speaker 6: It was one o one.

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Speaker 5: My My parents lived for that record. So I'm growing

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Speaker 5: up thinking that the Winings are the epicenter of you know,

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Speaker 5: and the absolute force of gospel singing. But for you,

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Speaker 5: that was just normalized. And the Clark sisters were top shelf.

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Speaker 6: It was as far as being creative, the Clark sisters

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Speaker 6: were top shelf. As far as the blend the Whinings brothers,

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Speaker 6: there was a blend like no other because they were family.

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Speaker 6: So we took the we took the polished of the Winings,

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Speaker 6: and we took the creativity of the Clark sisters. And

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Speaker 6: that's what commissioned. So if the Winings commission and Clark

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Speaker 6: Sists got together, then they produced us, you know what

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Speaker 6: I'm saying. So that's what you hear, you know, But

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Speaker 6: it was about Twinkie. Twinkie was beast. She was a beast.

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Speaker 6: She was she was amazing. And that's where we got

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Speaker 6: it from.

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Speaker 5: So okay, Actually I want to direct this to James,

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Speaker 5: because here's the deal. Again, we're not you know, at

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Speaker 5: the top of the show, I explained that when I

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Speaker 5: was in high school, it was almost like a gang experience,

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Speaker 5: and I'm ad performing arts school, and you got like

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Speaker 5: one cat like Kurt rosenwinkles into Frank Zappa, so you

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Speaker 5: got to learn his language.

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Speaker 4: But then like Chris McBride and Joey.

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Speaker 5: Di Francesco are heavy jazz cats, so you got to

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Speaker 5: listen to like anything on Blue Note. And then of course,

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Speaker 5: you know, my partner Triga is hip hop and whatnot,

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Speaker 5: and so there was the fourth category of cats who

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Speaker 5: only lived for Commission. And so you know, like I,

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Speaker 5: even though we didn't go to the same school together,

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Speaker 5: like little John Roberts as a drummer, was how I

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Speaker 5: knew Commission.

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Speaker 4: Because the thing is, you know, like I'm thinking, like

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Speaker 4: with my legacy of who my.

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Speaker 5: Dad was and Whatnot'm finally like in a high school

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Speaker 5: situation which I could play like all City Jazz band

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Speaker 5: all that stuff. So I'm thinking, like the red carpet

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Speaker 5: is just ready for me, and like, you know, for

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Speaker 5: me to get my thing on and little John Roberts,

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Speaker 5: who's way younger than I was, Like, he's like three

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Speaker 5: four years younger. You know this, this little you know,

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Speaker 5: eighth grade runt is playing like an adult and I'm like,

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Speaker 5: wait what and he's little John's let me know, like

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Speaker 5: like you don't know about commission.

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Speaker 4: And I'm realizing, you know, because again I was team Prince.

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Speaker 4: That's that's who.

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Speaker 5: That's who I chose that you know, sprints the time

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Speaker 5: and all that stuff. I wasn't him to commission. And

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Speaker 5: yet all my peers, like all those first generation monster

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Speaker 5: Cats were just like taking every word as like bond

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Speaker 5: so for you, for you, James, like how how much

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Speaker 5: of their work, like was influential to you coming up

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Speaker 5: in your dad's church and whatnot?

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Speaker 7: Oh my see, I grew up and my father's a

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Speaker 7: bishop and a Jamaican bishop, which means that we ain't

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Speaker 7: we couldn't do nothing. As my dad said, your cont

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Speaker 7: do this, your count do that.

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Speaker 4: He had to sneak to listen to commission.

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Speaker 2: No no, no, no no no.

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Speaker 7: That was the only those are the only records that

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Speaker 7: I could listen to. You know, we I grew up,

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Speaker 7: you know, the records that were in the house where

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Speaker 7: the Andree Crouch and the Hawkens and so forth and

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Speaker 7: so listen to that. But when commission came, it was like,

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Speaker 7: this is something new. All my musician buddies at the

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Speaker 7: time that grew up in the church were like, yo,

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Speaker 7: if you check this out.

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Speaker 6: The very beginning of.

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Speaker 2: Going on, it was like what is that?

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Speaker 7: So it was like we had something, We had something

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Speaker 7: cool to listen to, you know what I mean, something

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Speaker 7: that yeah, something.

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Speaker 6: That was explained to me.

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Speaker 5: What year did gospel stop really let itself go of?

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Speaker 5: Like the Gospel Quartet, Like when did gospel really let go?

353
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Speaker 5: Because even now I collect, like I love collecting gospel

354
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Speaker 5: records that will take that one secular song and turn

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Speaker 5: it into a gospel song like sha Lamar second time around,

356
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Speaker 5: or you know, there's a whispers and the beat goes

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Speaker 5: on gospel version. There's a Lovely Day that's gospelized. You know,

358
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Speaker 5: there's always that one token song where they like take

359
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Speaker 5: a secular song and do it. But the rest of

360
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Speaker 5: this stuff is like old time gospel. At what point

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Speaker 5: in the gospel world do you you not have to

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Speaker 5: feel shame that you're making people dance and not playing

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Speaker 5: the regular gospel time old.

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Speaker 2: Time you brought the sunshine maybe right?

365
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Speaker 7: Yeah Clark Sisters, Yeah what the sunshine?

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Speaker 2: I mean that was master blast.

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Speaker 7: So that's the first time in which like I mean,

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Speaker 7: if you go back to Edward Hawker edwind Hawkins the

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Speaker 7: Oh Happy Day too, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: So even then, like that's still gospel to me.

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Speaker 5: But like, what's the point where, like you know, where

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Speaker 5: you if you take the vocals away, it could be

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Speaker 5: a secular song, Like, at what point does that happen?

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Speaker 6: It really took hold with b B and CCS first.

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Speaker 8: I owe you me, Yes, I got it right. I

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Speaker 8: was thinking that, but I didn't want to say it

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Speaker 8: out loud. Thank you, Fred.

378
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Speaker 6: I'm thinking that's when it really took hold because the

379
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Speaker 6: people didn't know if there was a love song album, yeah,

380
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Speaker 6: you know, and that's when it got popular to actually

381
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Speaker 6: sing music. Steve Thomas was the was the producer at

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Speaker 6: that time. He was a white boy with a lot

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Speaker 6: of song in Heaven.

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Speaker 2: He did a lot of Vanessa Williams stuff too.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, so that's what it really kicked in.

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Speaker 5: So when you're playing in church, are there any elders

387
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Speaker 5: ever giving you side eye? Like because even even mine,

388
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Speaker 5: like I'm not I didn't. I didn't come from the

389
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Speaker 5: church per se, but I played drums at my church occasionally.

390
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Speaker 5: So like you know in eighty six eighty seven, you know,

391
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Speaker 5: I might put a little bit of top villain into

392
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Speaker 5: whatever we're doing, or play like a run DMC break

393
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Speaker 5: beat or whatever, and occasionally, like an older uncle would

394
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Speaker 5: give me that look like I.

395
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Speaker 6: Know what you're doing.

396
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Speaker 5: You know how you older people didn't know when the

397
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Speaker 5: kids start doing the then they're like, oh, you're playing.

398
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Speaker 4: Secondly, you don't do that like uplood.

399
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Speaker 5: So are you at all ever getting like side eyes

400
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Speaker 5: if you start referencing a popular baseline, if you start

401
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Speaker 5: doing not just neeedep or something like in your music.

402
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Speaker 6: Man, we caught the blues with that. Man, we caught

403
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Speaker 6: the blues with that. We were getting. Man, we got picketed.

404
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Speaker 6: We got picket at the show.

405
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Speaker 4: Wait, I wasn't expecting that the.

406
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Speaker 6: Mission we were doing a we were doing a convention

407
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Speaker 6: in Kentucky, I believe Cincinnati, Kentucky, and man, there was

408
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Speaker 6: they said, Man, we don't want to we don't want

409
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Speaker 6: to bum you out, but there's a whole bunch of

410
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Speaker 6: people about twenty to thirty people out in the front,

411
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Speaker 6: and they got picket signs saying this music is gonna

412
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Speaker 6: send you to hell. Oh and I never forgot. I

413
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Speaker 6: never forgot. It was like a scene out of a movie.

414
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Speaker 6: Driving up. All of a sudden, we in slow motion.

415
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Speaker 6: You hear some strings playing and you see these people

416
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Speaker 6: god Devil's music, Devil's really and were just sitting there

417
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 6: there like what are you doing? But it was still

418
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Speaker 6: a line of young people waiting to get in. And

419
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Speaker 6: when we got inside, we played like never before. We

420
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 6: weren't really rebellious. We were kind of hurt because we

421
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Speaker 6: didn't see that like that, but we played anyway, and

422
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 6: the kids came in there and they had a great time,

423
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Speaker 6: and we did have a lot of elders. And people say,

424
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Speaker 6: I don't understand it. Like one pastor was totally against us,

425
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Speaker 6: and the only reason he stopped being totally against us

426
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Speaker 6: is that another pastor had a son that was on

427
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Speaker 6: drugs that was getting clean because he was listening to

428
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Speaker 6: our music and he would come to church. He said,

429
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Speaker 6: I don't know what them boys are doing, but I

430
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Speaker 6: tell you this, if they can get him to do

431
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Speaker 6: his job, I ain't mad at it and it started

432
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Speaker 6: changing some people around, but it took a long time. Man,

433
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 6: people was picking in us because we had on blue jeans.

434
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Speaker 6: We were the first group to ever wear blue jeans

435
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 6: on a record, so we was like new addition, and

436
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 6: people just thought people wouldn't buy a record just because

437
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 6: of what we had on that first open. They wouldn't

438
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 6: even buy it.

439
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 8: What y'all think the church is keeping? Is catching up?

440
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 5: Yet?

441
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 8: They now they okay, everybody, everybody ain't in though. That's

442
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 8: why I was.

443
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 6: Asking churches go to the Potters House. In the Potter's House,

444
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 6: we have we have dance ministries, we have youth ministries,

445
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 6: and they could do whatever it is as long as

446
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 6: it's not sexual looking. They can do any dance. They

447
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 6: can whoa, they can do whatever they want to do

448
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 6: to anything because he encourages. Man, this is current, this

449
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 6: is what we're doing. This is nothing wrong with this.

450
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 6: We we better offer them something. Somebody else is going

451
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 6: to offer him something. I want to give her something

452
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 6: because if they're gonna the pole is gonna offer her something.

453
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 6: So you know, let's be smart about these young people.

454
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 6: And they're they're with it now, but coming up, man,

455
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 6: Eric Robertson is one of my best friends.

456
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: I want to as so he I never forget.

457
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 6: They told me. They said they brought him down to

458
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 6: Popados and they said they had a special guest for

459
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 6: his birthday, and they brought me in the room. He

460
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 6: literally started crying and we stayed friends ever since. But

461
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 6: he told the story that really blessed me. He said

462
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 6: he hated gospel music because it was He didn't like it,

463
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 6: and his mother said, you got to listen to it,

464
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 6: but she was praying for something. So one day he

465
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 6: was downstairs ironing his clothes and his mother put our

466
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 6: record on the on the iron board and he saw

467
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 6: that we had closes with like he did, and he

468
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 6: looked at it and he played it. He said, I

469
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 6: literally started crying. He said, because you guys, you said it.

470
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 6: You guys made it cool to do gospels. And that's

471
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 6: when the clipped. He and I talked about to this day.

472
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 2: That's my guy, Eric's man.

473
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 8: That's coming soon, the quest Love Spring.

474
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 5: I'm I'm mind blowing. I wasn't expecting the picketting. I thought, like,

475
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 5: you guys broke through the other side and everyone was

476
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 5: with it. So it's basically like the black footloose like.

477
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 8: It's always a chicken with a skirt underneath the knees

478
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 8: ready to pick it.

479
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, black footloose.

480
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 5: Well, I also want to know has there ever been

481
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 5: musically speaking, how how long would you guys rehearse? And

482
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 5: you know, was there ever a pressure to top yourselves

483
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 5: as far as the musicality because you know, again some

484
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 5: of these songs are straight ahead funk songs. But then

485
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 5: like you guys will get on your return to forever,

486
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 5: you know, crazy arrangements at the end thing and you know,

487
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 5: so how how how what's the what's the regiment for

488
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 5: like practicing and coming up with new ideas and whatnot.

489
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 6: There was a point in time where we're doing the

490
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 6: first several set of records, when our budgets were really,

491
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 6: really small. What we would do is put twenty hours

492
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 6: of practice time in a basement to every four hours

493
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 6: of studio time because we didn't have much money.

494
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: When you're in the studio, you can knock it out.

495
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 6: We knocking it out. And then we was putting fines

496
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 6: in place. We ain't had no money, but we was

497
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 6: putting fines in place. You know, if you miss it

498
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 6: if you because you had to do a take, you

499
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 6: got one tape because we was like, no, we're going

500
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 6: to be doing this in one take. If you messed

501
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 6: it up, man, that's a five dollar fine, you know.

502
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 6: And so the next one we would honestly, but we

503
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 6: were on it man, because we would and we loved rehearsing.

504
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 6: We didn't really have no jobs, so we loved rehearsing, man,

505
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 6: and we just saw ourselves in a bit of better place.

506
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 6: So we would either be a Michael Brooks's basement and

507
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 6: we were learning. That's where I brought in Field Collins.

508
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 6: You know, if you go listen to Hide the word

509
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 6: on the second album, Okay the drummer, I listened to

510
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 6: Level forty two and I listened to Phil Collins and them,

511
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 6: and uh my drummer was crazy about Phil Collins. So

512
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 6: we said, we're gonna put this one party in there

513
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 6: that Phil does his times all right, So it said

514
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 6: when it looks like thing, you rob boom and they

515
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 6: didn't think instant. And then he would go past the one,

516
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 6: so he goes probo instead of going bot instead of

517
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 6: going to the one he would go. He said, watch,

518
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 6: I'm gonna do.

519
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 4: This boo boo boo, boom stop boom.

520
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 6: And and we went into a thing. But we he

521
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 6: would do something, then I would do something, or Mark

522
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 6: King would do this right here boom boom boom, and

523
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 6: this would never do well, let's do this right here.

524
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 6: We were blessed to experiment with music and still keep

525
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 6: a pocket. That was the beauty of commission. Man, that's

526
00:28:58,800 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 6: what I love.

527
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 5: Wow Wow, you mentioned level for forty two. I was

528
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: about to say, what's his name is bass playing King? Yes, Yes,

529
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 5: I definitely see that.

530
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, erro.

531
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 3: He wanted to he wanted to ask you what I

532
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: wanted you to tell the story of recording, writing and

533
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 3: recording and running back to you.

534
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 6: Oh man, it was funny because that's actually just came

535
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 6: up about three years ago as a sore spot just

536
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 6: came up. Oh sore spot. Uh. It was supposed to

537
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 6: be in a little movie thing we was talking about doing.

538
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 6: And I won't blow people's cover, but I'll just tell

539
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 6: you what happened. We were in there and this record

540
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 6: we had a we had an artist named Derek Brinkley,

541
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 6: you know, and I was going to give this song

542
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 6: to him, and they said, well, no, why don't you

543
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 6: keep it. So I said to Keith, I said, because

544
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 6: it's my personal testimony. And I said, Keith, man, why

545
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 6: don't you sing the song? Because we always wanted to

546
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 6: make sure everybody felt more comfortable, you know, like I

547
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 6: don't want to seem like I'm doing everything. So I

548
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 6: wrote this song, you know, and I said, Keith, would

549
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 6: you do it? Keith is more straight lace of all

550
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 6: of us. He was very much the straight lace guy,

551
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 6: you know, very cool. But he went out there in

552
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 6: these streets like we was. We was out there and

553
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 6: he said, man, I'm not real comfortable with doing that song.

554
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 6: I said, well, I'll go do the demo of it,

555
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 6: and you guys kind of listened to it. So what

556
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 6: we would do is I the person, would sing the lead,

557
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 6: and then we go start making a background parts. So

558
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 6: I went in there and I sang the song, and

559
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 6: I'm looking at the guys in there, and they're just

560
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 6: kind of sitting like this, you know, and and so

561
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 6: I'm singing the parts and singing the parts, and finally

562
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 6: I put I look in there after I finished, and

563
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 6: I put the headphones down, and nobody's you know, not saying, man,

564
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 6: great songs that they're just sitting there. And so I

565
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 6: walked from the microphone to the studio ten feet going

566
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 6: past double doors. And when I got in there, everybody

567
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 6: was looking at me like this, and I didn't know

568
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 6: what to expect. So I just sat down and one

569
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 6: of the guys said, good job, man, good job. And

570
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: I said, okay, cool. So I'm listening to the playback

571
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 6: and I turned around to the guys and said, so, guys,

572
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 6: let's start putting some backgrounds to it. Let's put some

573
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 6: backgrounds to it. And the guy said, I don't think

574
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 6: you should put no backgrounds. Here's here's the dirt. There's

575
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 6: a little dirt. One of the guys, when I was

576
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 6: coming from the vocal booth to the room, said so

577
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 6: they'll gonna just let him do a solo on this record.

578
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: Ah man.

579
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 6: And when I got in there, everybody was off guard.

580
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: So that was the look.

581
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 6: That was the look. And so the rest of the

582
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 6: guys told me this literally three years ago.

583
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 7: Wow.

584
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 6: I always wait what they just told me this three

585
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 6: years ago?

586
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 2: Wow?

587
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 6: And so when I walked in the room, I walked

588
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 6: in and the person said, hey, man, you should just

589
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 6: go ahead and do it yourself. And I said, no, man,

590
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 6: I don't want nobody thinking I'm trying to do no

591
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 6: no solo or nothing like that. They said, Man, now

592
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 6: you're good. The guys were trying to process what they

593
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 6: just dealt with.

594
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: Oh.

595
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 6: So they sat there and what you hear is the

596
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 6: demo is the actual song itself today.

597
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.

598
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 6: We were still Here's the thing. We were still regular dudes.

599
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 6: We were still people with insecurities. We were people. We

600
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 6: were guys, boys trying to be raising, trying to turn

601
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 6: into men. We had idiosyncrasies, we had group issues. So

602
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 6: when I see something like The Temptation Story, which is

603
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 6: one of my favorite movies of all time, you know,

604
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 6: I feel that pain when I see that five heart,

605
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 6: I feel that pain. When I see the Jackson's I

606
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 6: see a new addition. Man, we all went through that.

607
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 6: It's nothing different in gospel. People have desires and this,

608
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 6: that and the other. We just didn't cuss each other

609
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 6: a fight, but man, it was still the same drama,

610
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 6: you know what I mean? And that was one of

611
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 6: them moments.

612
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 5: Well, James and I are from the Tri State area,

613
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 5: so the gospel station I always listened to my parents

614
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: went full Christian on me, Like around mid eighties, and

615
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 5: there was a station called WZZB, of which you know

616
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 5: you can.

617
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 4: Hear some whinings.

618
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 5: But then it would be like the people today, Sandy Patty,

619
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 5: Michael W. Smith or you know, yeah, all those groups

620
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 5: Twilight Paris. Like, were you guys ever accepted in the

621
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 5: sort of white mainstream contemporary Christian set or were you

622
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 5: guys strictly just like on your side of the fence,

623
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 5: or you know, was there mixing?

624
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: You know, would they have not on festivals or churches

625
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 4: would invite you guys or like brilliant question.

626
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 6: We did have a few churches. So if we did

627
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 6: thirty gigs a year, you know, two of them would

628
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 6: be a white church or a big white festival, you know,

629
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 6: a big white festival. The guy that brought Amy Grant

630
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 6: and Michael W. Smith to town, his name was Art.

631
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 6: He would try to get us in events because he

632
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 6: was just a really good friend in him and Derek Dirkson.

633
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 6: Derek was trying to cross us over to let people

634
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 6: see what we did. But we didn't do a lot

635
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 6: of them, but we had enough. You know, festivals. Festivals

636
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 6: were big back then, so we would go on stage,

637
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 6: you know, right before Petra or right before you know striper.

638
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 4: You know, would he try to kill him, would try

639
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 4: to kill him.

640
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 6: We was doing our I saw a picture the other

641
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 6: day somebody sent me something. I'm probably post it in

642
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 6: a day or so where we were doing the monument

643
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 6: watch it's called I forgot what it was called. But

644
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 6: it was a big freedom fest and it's one of

645
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 6: the largest white festivals around and they brought us there.

646
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 6: It looks like the crowd is sitting on us because

647
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 6: we were singing. That's when Marvin Sap was in the group.

648
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 6: He had just got in the group. But the reality

649
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 6: was it was one hundred and eighteen degrees and people

650
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 6: were falling out. They told everybody sit down for every group,

651
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 6: no matter who it was, because people were falling out

652
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 6: and they was taking people away and it had to

653
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 6: be like the mall was filled. So it probably was

654
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 6: about thirty thousand people on the lawn, you know. So

655
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: you know, I just saw that the other day and

656
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 6: I'm probably posted in a day or so. But yeah,

657
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 6: we had a decent fear, but we basically stayed on

658
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 6: our side the fence.

659
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 5: I want to get to his last down with Commission

660
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 5: at least to see what the difference is and starting

661
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 5: the band ten years ago in eighty four eighty five,

662
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 5: and what prompted to the initial split from the group

663
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 5: in ninety four with Matters of the Heart. Could you

664
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 5: just talk about the time period.

665
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 6: The first record after the split was Number seven. That

666
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 6: was the first record. Okay. What ended up happening was

667
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 6: Michael Brooks ended up getting a really good deal with

668
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 6: PolyGram Raina Bundy and PolyGram in New York, and she

669
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 6: made him her staff producer. And you know, he was

670
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 6: kind of a and R director and he was still

671
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 6: with us, but he was really really busy doing that,

672
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 6: and he reached out to Keith and said, hey, man,

673
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 6: we'll do a solo record on you. And Benson Records

674
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 6: passed on Keith's solo deal. They gave him an option

675
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 6: to do it. They said, no, we invested in commission.

676
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 6: We don't think you should be doing that. Well, we

677
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 6: had something in our contract to say first right and

678
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 6: refusal if you pass, it's hit. Well Keith went on

679
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 6: ahead and signed with Brooks under his production company with

680
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 6: Rayner PolyGram and it's called Election Records was the name

681
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,479
Speaker 6: of the record company they ended up. Benson got really

682
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 6: mad Benson Records got really mad. So they came to

683
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 6: me and said, he can't stay in this group. If

684
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 6: this is gonna happen, y'all need to get him out,

685
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 6: and this, that and the other. So the record company

686
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 6: basically made us split and said, well, man, you can't

687
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 6: be a part of us if you're going to do that,

688
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 6: And so him and Mike went their way. So now

689
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 6: the whole record from number seven and then Matters of

690
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 6: the Heart is all in my hands to produce. And

691
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 6: I brought Mitchell on because that was my boy, and

692
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 6: he had Mitchell had an amazing sound. He understood, you know, flavor,

693
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 6: He understood he had a flavor too, So that I'm

694
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 6: learning that's Mitchell in Parks, but that's our groove behind it.

695
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 6: But that's their pin, you know. Ordinary just won't do

696
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 6: Mitchell and Parks some of the greatest songs they had,

697
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 6: they just had that that thing, but we had the

698
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 6: music behind. So number seven, you know, I brought in

699
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 6: my boy Bernard, right, we did King of Glory, we

700
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 6: did I Can't Live Without You, and yes, yes, he

701
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 6: stayed with me, hung out with me, and me and

702
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 6: him was like that. And he so if you listen

703
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 6: to King of Glory, you will hear me and Banar,

704
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 6: you know. And then you listen to I Can't Live

705
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 6: Without You, you hear Me and Banard my first solo record.

706
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 6: I came to Jesus with the flying bannbro Me and Banar,

707
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 6: Grace for me every day, Me and Banar. And then

708
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 6: Bernard went and got his record deal from another record

709
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 6: company and he moved on. So that was what that was,

710
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 6: so our sound. I was able to take the funk

711
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 6: that was always in me and drive it and said

712
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 6: this is what we're gonna do. And then we got

713
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 6: to uh, we got a little bit more polished because

714
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 6: we were we got to matters of the heart and

715
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 6: we wanted to sound a little older. So then I

716
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 6: got with my boy Chucky Booker, and we did you know,

717
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 6: love is the Way, and we did you can Always

718
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 6: Come Home with Run DMC, and we just we experimented

719
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 6: with great music. So we had CCM sound, we had

720
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 6: that funk Chucky Booker sound, and then we had that

721
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 6: commission funk in the middle of there something. So that

722
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 6: was kind of how that was birthed. Yeah, and that

723
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 6: was my last record. That was my last record, and.

724
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: Then after that. That was when you did Radicals for

725
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: Christ for.

726
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 6: Christ my last record, and we had another split at

727
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 6: that point in time, and really, and I thought I

728
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 6: was I was gonna get rid of the other guys

729
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 6: and we're gonna be me. You know, I'm I'm being

730
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 6: good with the record company.

731
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 4: And you know it is what it is.

732
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 6: Which one of you is going, I'm not leaving you

733
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 6: that I've already proven myself. I'm the golden job. They

734
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 6: loved the records. It's selling and and we had a

735
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 6: meeting one time and they said this. They brought a

736
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 6: lot of different things that wasn't true. And we sat

737
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 6: down with a pastor and I'm like, okay, one of you,

738
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 6: somebody's leaving. It ain't gonna be me. We here, No,

739
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 6: I'm not moving. And somebody read I won't say which

740
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 6: one it was. He said, read the bottom line. And

741
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 6: he said, because the pastor said, I don't see anything

742
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 6: wrong here. There's nothing out of order to seat her

743
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 6: in place. Everything that you guys are saying, I don't

744
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 6: see it. What's the bottom line? And he said, we

745
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 6: do not believe God called Fred to be the leader

746
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 6: of our group. And it took all the air out

747
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 6: of me because I picked, I handpicked the guy that

748
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 6: was reading it. And I sat back in my chair

749
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 6: and I went through all the emotions right there, and

750
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 6: then I told I said, give me a week, and

751
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 6: I went back to my little spot, my little studio,

752
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 6: and I went to everywhere in the Bible in the

753
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 6: New Testament that talked about belief, and the main scripture

754
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 6: was Jesus was in his own town preaching to his

755
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 6: own people, and they said, who does this guy think

756
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 6: he is? Don't we know his sisters and them?

757
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 4: Who you think?

758
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 6: Where do you get all this knowledge from? And he

759
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 6: said he marveled at their unbelief. And then this was

760
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 6: the thing that made me give it up. He said,

761
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 6: many mighty miracles he could not do because of their unbelief.

762
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 6: And I closed the Bible. I said, I can get

763
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 6: these guys ten grammys. They all have Rose Royce as

764
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 6: Mentley's and they won't believe it's me. So I'm out,

765
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 6: and I just handed everything over. I said, y'all can

766
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 6: have it, and I went into a wilderness. I did

767
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 6: not know what I was going to do. I went

768
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 6: into a depression. We sang one more year, and then

769
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 6: I had to figure out what I was going to do.

770
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: And this is ninety this is ninety four.

771
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 6: And that's when I heard started a choir and I

772
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 6: was like, now I'm gonna keep it one hundred, you know,

773
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 6: and I don't, you know, only I gotta keep it

774
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 6: careful because I don't want to get canceled.

775
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 8: You know.

776
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 6: I didn't care for choirs for the persona that it

777
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 6: carried at the time, and that's what's all i'm gonna

778
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 6: tell you. I'm gonna do, you know, And I didn't.

779
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 6: I didn't care for it, you know. I didn't care

780
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 6: for what people looked at choirs. And I saw Kirk

781
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 6: on a show, and I saw David Man, I saw

782
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 6: a big day Dalen, uh, my boy, Dalen. I saw

783
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 6: and they was with it. And so then I knew

784
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 6: John p Key. So I started listening to John. And

785
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 6: John was thugging. I knew John me I helped him

786
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 6: get his first deal, and so I started listening. I

787
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 6: started listening to show up, like for four months straight,

788
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 6: and I'm hearing this hard driving thing, and I'm like,

789
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 6: I can do this. I can do this. So I

790
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 6: was friends with Billy Steele, so I paid attention to

791
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 6: sounds of blackness, because at that point in time, Jimmy

792
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 6: Terry just killed the game, which sounds of blackness. So

793
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 6: I'm seeing this transformation and I'm going into it, and

794
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 6: I finally I come up with r f C. I said,

795
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 6: this is gonna be our flavor. We're gonna do this.

796
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 6: We're gonna do praising worship. And nobody knew what praising

797
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 6: worship was at that time. Praising worship is just how

798
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,959
Speaker 6: you say the lyrics you're saying. So when people are saying,

799
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 6: I've been down, boom and I'm gonna get back up,

800
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 6: they were singing where they were in life. They were singing, baby,

801
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 6: got need a pair of shoes, even got a light

802
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 6: built do Because this is my problem. I'm gonna turn

803
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 6: over the Lord. He'll work it out. But I started

804
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 6: lifting the Lord up. So I'm doing this beat and

805
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 6: I got my MPC, I got all my cards and

806
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 6: load the samples up and I'm doing this one beat

807
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 6: boom stop boom, boomtop boom boom, and I stopped the sample.

808
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 6: And you know how an NBC the sample would go

809
00:43:55,040 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 6: over shot? Did you hit it again? Shop to read

810
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 6: to read too glow? And that's how it started, it

811
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 6: changed into a whole thing, you know. So I just

812
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 6: took praise and worship that white people were doing, brought

813
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 6: it over to the Black church and I told I

814
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 6: tell white people and says, you guys cook string beans

815
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 6: and it still has a snap in it. We don't

816
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 6: like that. Like our stuff to be all.

817
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 2: Those bread, it needs to be wilted, turkey.

818
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 6: Leg in there, and it needs to have not a

819
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 6: nutrient around taste a rival. I don't want to taste.

820
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 8: I'll see them on none of that fiber.

821
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 6: This this shouldn't be no good. So that's what my

822
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 6: praise of worship was. It was we just took their

823
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 6: stuff that was neat. We just put some turkey leg

824
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 6: in there.

825
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 5: It was such an education, especially in watching with you

826
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 5: and Kirk doing versus together.

827
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and going through you know, going through your history.

828
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 5: How does it feel where now like contemporary sycul acts

829
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 5: be it Diddy Snoop Dogg did a gospel record like,

830
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 5: how does it feel to be embraced by.

831
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,479
Speaker 4: That community to whom that you know? Maybe ten twenty

832
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 4: years ago.

833
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 5: I think maybe the most radical thing I saw thirty

834
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 5: forty years ago was maybe like Marie White singing with

835
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 5: a gospel act. But you know, now it's very commonplace,

836
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 5: Like how does it feel to get embraced by.

837
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 4: The world.

838
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 6: Respect feels good. Respect just feel good. And that's all

839
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 6: we ever wanted was respect, you know, to be treated

840
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 6: like we're real musicians. We're not church musicians. We're real

841
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 6: musicians who made a choice to sing church stuff. And

842
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 6: now that's what it is. So I can look at you,

843
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 6: I can look at the roots, I can pay attention.

844
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 6: I watched you know, you guys. I remember when you

845
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 6: guys went on and got the gig. We all talked about.

846
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 6: That was stuff about that we talked about. I paid

847
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 6: attention to the sound that came out of Philadelphia music,

848
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 6: soul childs. Now we just embraced each other because you know,

849
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, each every one of

850
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 6: us on here, our brothers and sisters. We're a family

851
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 6: of music. First what we talk about, but it's hip hop,

852
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 6: gos it. That's just something we choose to have a

853
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 6: conversation about. But first and foremost, we all have the

854
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 6: passion of the beat, the drum, the bass, the keys,

855
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,040
Speaker 6: the sound, the lyric and now we can have we

856
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 6: have those conversations with each other and we respect them.

857
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 6: Like I said, my brother, we're in here right now

858
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 6: preparing for Ricky, Bobby, Rod, Johnny and Mike were preparing

859
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 6: for them right now. All of our gear is getting

860
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 6: ready to go out. And when I go and see them,

861
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 6: I love them and we just we hug up, we

862
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 6: dap up, and we just respect each other, you know

863
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 6: what I mean.

864
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 4: I really can't wait for this.

865
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 5: For me, This education is important because you know, James,

866
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 5: James gonna attest to this. Especially in the last two years,

867
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 5: I've been like really catching up on a lot of

868
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 5: things that I've missed and wasn't able.

869
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 4: You know, like the quarantine period that.

870
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 5: We're now is a slow down period where you know,

871
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 5: we get time to ourselves and really I get to

872
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 5: catch up on books and things and music that I

873
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 5: otherwise wouldn't have caught up on because I'm working so much.

874
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 5: And I was you know, when when Laias said that

875
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 5: you wanted to do quest Love Supreme, I was, you know,

876
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 5: I was like thinking God, because I didn't want to

877
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 5: be the only person in life who listened to Crash

878
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 5: Cuts more than I've listened to.

879
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: You know, man cut Man happening to do. Yeah, today

880
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: my birthday.

881
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 4: So I thank you for this man, you know, I

882
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 4: truly thank you.

883
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 5: Almost in closing, I just want to know, well, in

884
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 5: the aftermath of the pandemic, how has your life changed

885
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 5: and how has the circuit, at least your life of

886
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 5: music changed since March of twenty twenty.

887
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 8: Because he's about to go on tour allegedly.

888
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're about to do has A Kira, who was

889
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 6: one of my best but good friends. We're hitting the road,

890
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 6: has k marvels at myself, Israel Holden hitting the road

891
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 6: out March Festival, the praise to it. But you know what, man,

892
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 6: it's weird because US streaming has killed us. Streaming really

893
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 6: has it the church. I mean, here's the thing. Our

894
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 6: people are just starting to get on streaming this year.

895
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,439
Speaker 6: They're just starting.

896
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: No no, no, he's saying the because that's choice.

897
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 6: So they couldn't go nowhere listening, so on their refrigerators,

898
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 6: on their computers listening. They discovered Pandora, they discovered Spotify,

899
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying. So they're they're listening. Now

900
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 6: here's the thing. It's kind of a cruel joke, and

901
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 6: it's not God's fault. But it feels like a cruel

902
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 6: joke because I still have so much music in me

903
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 6: to create, but there's no real outlet. Like I just

904
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 6: did a record, man, I just did a record with

905
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 6: this was this company called Fennis and I put it out.

906
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,479
Speaker 6: It's called Sunday Morning Fred, and it's on on Apple

907
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 6: Music right now. But and it's one of the leading

908
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 6: black streaming records out there. And I'm not on a

909
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 6: major label. But it's not saying nothing because I'm streaming

910
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:17,959
Speaker 6: like seven thousand, like thirty six thousand copies of week

911
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 6: streams a week on this new record. And that's not

912
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:22,479
Speaker 6: really that good.

913
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: It's not really financially.

914
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 6: Is like, Man, I put a lot of money into

915
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 6: it to make it happen. And so on my Facebook page,

916
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 6: I got a whole I got the whole concert. I

917
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 6: got the whole concert. I did it in my warehouse

918
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 6: and it's a throwback of old Fred. It's pages is

919
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 6: the life for it. It's that vibe and a man

920
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 6: gospel is in a tunnel. Because R and B died,

921
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 6: and I tell everybody that when R and B die,

922
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 6: I'm talking about LTD, I'm talking about time. I'm talking

923
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 6: about Anita and Luther, and we could listen to them.

924
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 6: We were What made commission happen is because you could

925
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 6: listen to something like like you said, man, your father said,

926
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 6: you can listen to them. And we gave you the time.

927
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 6: We gave you some prince, We gave you these people

928
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 6: because we had something to lean on. Well, now those

929
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 6: people are gone that that music is gone. It's nothing

930
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 6: new coming out therefore, and gospel has gone back to

931
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 6: traditional or to Maverick. Maverick is the white version of

932
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 6: Black gospel, and Maverick City, Maverick City is the new

933
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 6: praise of worship. It's the hot it's the hottest praise

934
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 6: and worship company out there lives. And when I tell you,

935
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 6: they got some amazing artists. But what it is is

936
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 6: a lot of the young people now have gone over

937
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 6: there and they've taken the sound of black music and

938
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 6: they've made it less black. Okay, you have to go

939
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 6: research it.

940
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I tell you.

941
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 6: It's people like chander More. I mean, I tell you,

942
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 6: this guy is amazing. But what they're doing is they're

943
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 6: creating a new space for these guys to write and

944
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 6: to do their things. So I can't be mad at

945
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 6: I'm never gonna be mad at somebody doing their thing.

946
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 6: Maverick is the hottest thing going Maverick City. But I

947
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 6: can do Maverick because I'm too I'm too so I

948
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,879
Speaker 6: don't have that thing and h Man, check it out,

949
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 6: check it out.

950
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 5: So you're saying, right now, there's really not there's really

951
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 5: not a space for you to be creative and release

952
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 5: product and have it be monetarily worth it. So would

953
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 5: you fante say the sort of where you were in

954
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 5: like two thousand and three, like trying to figure out

955
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 5: where we fit in. He's saying, this is where you

956
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 5: were in two thousand and three, like when you start

957
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 5: a little brother and try to figure out I mean now,

958
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 5: I would assume now in twenty twenty two, twenty years later,

959
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 5: the lame.

960
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 4: At you're in is rather lucrative.

961
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, now it makes sense.

962
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 6: But at the time, the beauty of what I did

963
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 6: that a lot of my counterparts didn't do back in

964
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 6: the commission days is I really felt God told me

965
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 6: to just keep putting music out, even though I wasn't

966
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 6: in the best record company position, even though they were

967
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 6: making the money and I wasn't. I kept hearing them saying,

968
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 6: just keep putting music out, keep putting it out. And

969
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 6: my guys were saying, rightfully, I'm not gonna let them

970
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 6: pip me. I'm out the game before you pit me.

971
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,879
Speaker 6: I'm gonna lead. But I kept making the music. Now

972
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 6: my catalog is what it is Spotify. I did twenty

973
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 6: two million streams this year that Spotify alone, Pandora plus

974
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,800
Speaker 6: this plus that, and my catalog is burning through like crazy.

975
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 6: So people want to keep me where they met me though.

976
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 8: That's what I don't want you to evolve. They don't

977
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 8: want you to like.

978
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 6: I've reached Frankie Beverley's status red I received.

979
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make you know, I'm gonna make I will

980
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 3: make a suggestion. I'm putting this out this on q les.

981
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 3: I'm saying this. This needs to happen because I think

982
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 3: I think I see a lame for you, brother Fred.

983
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 3: If I may, if I may off, Okay, listen, this

984
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 3: is the same thing that you know that Rick James did.

985
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: Like when you have the veteran act being produced by

986
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: the younger producer.

987
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 3: So Rick James when he produced The Temptations a mirror,

988
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 3: when he produced Al Green, I think your next James.

989
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 6: A.

990
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 2: Jas absolutely ahead, Yeah, both of y'all. Y'all did Al Green.

991
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 3: I think your next project, Fred, I think you should

992
00:54:56,280 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 3: be produced by Devin Morrison. Oh like when I'm talking

993
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,160
Speaker 3: about I don't know if you know him. I don't

994
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 3: know if you're knowing, But Devin Morris is a singer.

995
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 3: He's a singer producer out of He's from out of Florida,

996
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 3: but he's based in I think La. Now, Devin is,

997
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 3: when I tell you, a student of commission. When I

998
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 3: when I found out you were coming on the show,

999
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 3: I reached.

1000
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 2: Out to him.

1001
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 3: I was like, Devin, like, I know commission, but like

1002
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not a church dude, so I need

1003
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 3: to know you know what I mean. He made me

1004
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: a playlist of like his favorite jokes.

1005
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: He was like, all right, this is what you need.

1006
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 2: These are the joints, these are the producers. Like he

1007
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 2: knows your whole thing, and.

1008
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, said I'll see you the playlist. And when I

1009
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 3: listened to the playlist, I was like, oh my god,

1010
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: this is Devin's DNA, Like this is he is a

1011
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 3: student and a student of your music and loves you, bro,

1012
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 3: Like I think y'all can kill something like for real.

1013
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 6: That's the beauty of it to work with my my

1014
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 6: newest these young cats. I love working with him, you know,

1015
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 6: I love working with him.

1016
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: So I'm down, man, I will link y'all up, straight

1017
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 2: up and down like that.

1018
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 8: Happened sometimes.

1019
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 4: Wait, James, is there anything.

1020
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 6: Right?

1021
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 7: Weave heathens over here, so you know, man, it's it's

1022
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 7: it's just so much music. I just got to tell

1023
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 7: you how much of an influence you've had on my

1024
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 7: life musically, and I just want to thank you for that.

1025
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 7: I don't know if you remember we met my brother

1026
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 7: Marvin mcquittie introduced us when you came to Philly. This

1027
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 7: is this is just back rest in peace my brother.

1028
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1029
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 7: But just I just I just got to say thank

1030
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 7: you man, thank you for the music, thank you for

1031
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 7: for who you are.

1032
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:43,359
Speaker 2: That's all right, up and down for real.

1033
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 6: I appreciate you all, and I this night was special

1034
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 6: to me. I have not done a zoom this long.

1035
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: Listen.

1036
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 6: I wouldn't have been checked out the whole long time

1037
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 6: ago because I'll be okay, we just talked about everything else.

1038
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 6: But when you get into the history and you get

1039
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 6: into the music, cology of it all. Man, you guys

1040
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 6: are amazing. Tonight was amazing. Quest Man, you don't understand.

1041
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 6: I really am a fan and I am a fan.

1042
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 5: I really thank you and I received that. Thank you

1043
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 5: so much for for doing this for us. I really

1044
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 5: appreciate it.

1045
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 3: Thank you nah for yo real quick, Fred, do I

1046
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 3: have Do I have permission? Can I get your number

1047
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 3: from errow and I'll link you? Okay, I'll do that question.

1048
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 6: I don't mess with people when I go places if

1049
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 6: they don't really recognize me. I'm the kind of person

1050
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 6: that are staying with my family. And I'm cool, you know,

1051
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 6: because sometimes you meet a start and they don't know

1052
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 6: you today, they know you tomorrow, they know you when

1053
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 6: you ain't in front of people, and I don't know

1054
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 6: other people. You and I met one time. Oh no,

1055
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 6: we were no, no, no, it wasn't that the Grammys.

1056
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 6: We was at the Grammys and I was behind you.

1057
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 6: Was in l A and I was behind you, and

1058
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 6: somebody was kind of they were they were like messing

1059
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 6: with your tickets or something, you know, and it was

1060
00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 6: you and your mom you a were together, and so

1061
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 6: I said, hey, hey, bro, you're good and you turned

1062
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 6: around and said, hold on second, man, And and so

1063
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 6: the girl I was with's like, don't bother, don't I said,

1064
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 6: I think he's having some problems up there. And I said,

1065
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 6: I'm I believe in him enough to try one more time.

1066
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 6: You got free and I got free. I walked up

1067
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 6: to you and I said, hey, man, I just want

1068
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 6: to tell you I'm a fan. My name is Fred Hamlet.

1069
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 6: And man, you embraced me with the biggest huba.

1070
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 8: You said the name.

1071
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 4: Oh look.

1072
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 6: He went. It was always like snap, oh yeah, okay,

1073
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 6: he said, And he said, this is my mom. And

1074
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 6: we hugged, and this, that and the other. We talked

1075
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 6: and that, yeah, induce you to the person I was with.

1076
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 6: And man, that that made my day because I didn't

1077
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 6: really walk up to a whole bunch of people that night.

1078
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 6: I'm not that dude to walk up and so yo ho,

1079
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 6: what's that?

1080
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 8: Man?

1081
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 6: You don't know me, I don't know you. That's right,

1082
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 6: But man, you were too close. We were in the

1083
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 6: tunnel on our way. You were too close for me

1084
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 6: not to say something. His quests love. Man, I'm like, man,

1085
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 6: let me just talk to my man for a minute.

1086
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 6: It was nervous that first woe like a yellow tree

1087
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 6: was growing over because shade was. Brother.

1088
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 5: I didn't get you on site, but definitely your name

1089
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 5: holds holy because if there's anyone who made me go

1090
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 5: in the basement and rehearse.

1091
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 4: Endlessly to keep up with the cats that was listening

1092
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 4: to Commission, it was you.

1093
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 6: You. Thank you you.

1094
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 5: And you know, I give credit to my dad, like

1095
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 5: my dad makes me go in the basement rehearse, but

1096
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 5: you know that was from like eight to thirteen, But definitely,

1097
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 5: once I got to high school, you were definitely the

1098
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 5: spark that really really brought my musicianship out, brother, and

1099
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 5: I thank you for that.

1100
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1101
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 6: I'll say this and I'll be done. You guys, when

1102
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 6: you do stuff like this, you add validity to who

1103
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 6: we are as God's artists. You guys did something and

1104
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 6: y'all mentioned my name in the middle of one of

1105
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 6: these two three hour shows. And my people listen to it,

1106
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 6: and they my guy sent me about five people said yo, man,

1107
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 6: Chris Love said your name, but they talked about you,

1108
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 6: and they marked the spot go to this spot and

1109
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 6: you get hear it. And I did it and I

1110
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 6: said it there and man, it brought a smile to

1111
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 6: my face. It's not like somebody sent me something they

1112
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 6: said and I said, oh yeah, when they sent it

1113
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 6: to me. I wanted to just know because of how

1114
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 6: I feel about you, I feel about your proof, how

1115
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 6: I feel about your pumplishments and everything that you guys

1116
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 6: are doing. I just wanted to hear that, and it

1117
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 6: was It was validation to me. It's a respect. And

1118
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 6: you guys had such nice things to say, and whoever

1119
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 6: the guest was on that time, they were talking nice

1120
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 6: about it as well. So I just want to tell you, man,

1121
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 6: when you guys do this to us, it's a blessing. Man.

1122
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 6: Trust me. We're listening. Thank you so much.

1123
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 5: Thank Youah Sugar, Steve about to win that and and

1124
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 5: they and.

1125
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 8: Are important and.

1126
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 4: And paid Bill and our special guest.

1127
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 8: James James soon to come as a quest guests.

1128
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 4: Soon. Thank you so much for doing us for us

1129
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 4: and we appreciate it. This isus Love Love Supreme. We

1130
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 4: will see you on the next go around. Thank you.

1131
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

1132
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1133
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.