1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: the biggest changes, moments, and transitions of our twenties and 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: so great to have you here, back for another episode 7 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: as we, of course break down the psychology of our twenties. 8 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: Here is a story I hear a lot from listeners 9 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: of the show. It is the story of someone being 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: fresh out of college, fresh out of UNI, getting their 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: first job, starting a new job, being super optimistic and excited, 12 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: and they're excited for the security and for the paycheck 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: and for the beginning of something new. And then a 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: few months in they encounter to someone who just like 15 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: wants to make their life miserable, whether that is a colleague, 16 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: whether that is a boss, or they realize like, hey, like, 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: wait a second, this workplace literally feels like I'm back 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: in high school. Why does this person have an issue 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: with me? Why are these people sleeping together? Why did 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: I not get that promotion when I obviously work harder? 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: Why does this person just hate me? I hear a 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: story about this, probably every week, a story about office politics, 23 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: about drama and backstabbing and affairs and stuff that honestly 24 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: nobody prepares us for in the workplace. We spend so 25 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: much time at work, and office politics and situations like 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: this do not get enough credit for how stressful they 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: can be because we're often Part of the stress is 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: we have zero idea what to do, especially in our twenties. 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: We feel so helpless, our work begins to suffer, we 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: feel pessimistic about work in general. But how you go 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: about managing these situations is going to shape your career 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: deeply and possibly for the better. And if you have 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: the right tools, your approach to office politics could actually 34 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: make you more successful. Today, I want to give you 35 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: a bit of that guide into the psychology that drives 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: these hidden social mechanisms in the workplace and kind of 37 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: the reminder that we need that all of this is 38 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: just complex human behavior boiled down into petty drama. Behind 39 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: the scenes of all of this is secret motivations, emotions, 40 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: human psychology that is influencing why people are the way 41 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: we are or the way they are. And when we 42 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: understand that psychology, we understand that research and that science. 43 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: We have a better emotional playbook for dealing with this 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: and for rising above some of like the terrible frustrating 45 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: things that workplace politics is going to throw at us. 46 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: So this is what we're discussing today. It's going to 47 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: be a big episode, but a very worthwhile essential one 48 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: if you are just beginning your career or in your twenties. 49 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: Without further ado, let's get into it. A lot of 50 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: the time, I think our early twenties and our twenties 51 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: in general, is like the first time we're really exposed 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: to like very interesting and secretive workplace dynamics. I don't 53 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: remember ever thinking about this before I started working. Yes, university, 54 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: maybe high school had these like subtle hierarchies, same as 55 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: like some of our early jobs. But only as you 56 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: get older do you realize how strange and like manipulative 57 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: people can be, and like the unwritten rules that are 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: at play in the workplace that is the office politics 59 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about. There is a literal whole, and I 60 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: mean major major discipline of psychology devoted to this very thing. 61 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: By the way, it's called organizational psychology. It essentially exclusively 62 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: focuses on why people behave the way they do it work. 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: Because we know work is such a huge part of 64 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: our human lives and human identity, it makes sense that 65 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: it is as complicated as relationships, as complicated as marriages, 66 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: as family. So back to the office. If you want 67 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: to understand the complexities of office politics, you first have 68 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: to understand that every office has, or every workplace has 69 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: two structures, the formal hierarchy and the informal network. So 70 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: on paper, the hierarchy is very clear. You know you 71 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: have managers, directors, executives, interns, etc. Etc. This is like 72 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: bureaucratic authority, right. The people at the top have legitimate 73 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: rule based power over people at the bottom. You know, 74 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: who has the title, who does the budgets, who does 75 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: the performance reviews, who is in charge. Alongside this, though, 76 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: is another structure that is more influential. This is the 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: informal network. So these are the relationships. These are the 78 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: relationship that determine who gets consulted, who actually shapes the decisions, 79 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: who is actually trusted with sensitive information, and then also 80 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: who makes more money, who gets the promotions. Even if 81 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: that power structure doesn't line up with the formal power structure, 82 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: this is sometimes what they call the shadow organization. It's 83 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: like these unspoken channels of influence that you have to 84 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: be aware of if you want to play the game 85 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: of work. There is this classic theory from the fifties 86 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: about the five main sources of workplace power. And this 87 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: is the other thing you have to be aware of 88 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: if you want to navigate the complexities of office life. 89 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: If you want to have influence at work, you can 90 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: have one of these five forms of power. Legitimate power, 91 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: so the kind of power that is granted by authority, 92 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: reward power, power in your ability to provide benefits, praise, recognition, 93 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,119 Speaker 1: coercive power, the power to punish, expert power, the power 94 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: of knowledge and competence, and finally, reverent power, the ability 95 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: to influence things through charisma and through likability. In your twenties, like, 96 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: you likely don't have much legitimate power yet. And I mean, 97 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: if you do, that's amazing, Like that's really cool if 98 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: you are the CEO or something. But most people in 99 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: their twenties don't decide how much people get paid. You 100 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: can't really fire or hire on mass. What you do have, though, 101 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: is referent and expert power. You can become indispensable by 102 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 1: developing the knowledge and the skills that other people don't 103 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: have time for and they need to rely on you 104 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: to do. You can also build alliances, you can collaborate 105 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: with people, You can be nice to people. If you've 106 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: ever heard the term personality higher, this is what we're 107 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: talking about. People always dismiss the personality higher, but all 108 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: that means is that you have great soft skills. You 109 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: are enjoyable to be around. You a booster, You are 110 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: a fresh perspective. That is a huge asset in your 111 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: twenties when a lot of people are very jaded. You 112 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: have something others don't. You have to use whatever you can, 113 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: including that to your advantage. You being a nice person 114 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: to be around helps your boss. It strokes their ego, 115 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: It makes them feel good, which, yeah, may not be 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: able to outperform somebody who is making three times as 117 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: much as you may not be able to outperform a 118 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: very complex skill. But that small addition, on top of 119 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: the other things you're doing and the other skills you 120 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: do have, gives you great power. You give something. You 121 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: are giving your personality. They are getting something in return 122 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: from that. One of the most useful psychological frameworks for 123 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: office politics is basically exactly this. It's called social exchange theory. 124 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: It was first proposed by George Homans like in the fifties. 125 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: I think it was further developed in the sixties. You'll 126 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: hear social exchange theory talked about in everything from relationships 127 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: to work to our pets. But it essentially suggests that 128 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: all human relationships, all relationships in general, operate on a 129 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: principle of exchange. We give and we receive resources, whether 130 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: that is material resources like money, emotional resources like love 131 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: and respect. Relationships thrive when the exchange is balanced, and 132 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: they suffer when they feel one sided. In an office, 133 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: this shows up constantly. This exchange theory is literally the 134 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: basis of all office politics. You help a coworker meet 135 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: a deadline, they later advocate for you during like promotion time. 136 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: You share credit, others share credit with you. You make your 137 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: boss feel hip and young and cool and fun. They're 138 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: going to be a nice boss back to you. You're 139 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: going to get stuff in return. The social exchange theory 140 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: is balanced. The exchange theory is balanced basically on the 141 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: flip side. It also explains why the energy of an 142 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: office can become really toxic if you feel like, and 143 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: I think this is an experience a lot of us 144 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: have when we're younger. If you feel like you are 145 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: endlessly giving everything, your loyalty, your ideas, your evenings, and 146 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: you are not receiving any recognition, any support, any money, 147 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: that is a surefire way for resentment to build, just 148 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: like you would get super frustrated at a friend or 149 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: a romantic partner for never reciprocating plans, never reciprocating the 150 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: effort you put into their birthday, Like, this is all 151 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: happening at work equally, except now it's with your co 152 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: workers and you arguably probably see them a lot more. 153 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: And you also can't just end the relationship and walk 154 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: away the way that you probably could do with a 155 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: bad friend, like they are there as much as you are. 156 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: So this is why we cannot brush over this stuff psychologically. 157 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: The workplace, like it isn't just a place we show 158 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: up and we do a bit of work and we 159 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: get a paycheck and we go home and it's all great. 160 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: It is a stage where we perform parts of ourselves 161 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: and parts of our identity, and it is a stage 162 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: where we are performing a social dance and we are 163 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: seeking belonging, Like we do in any social environment. When 164 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: you are rejected, when you are excluded, when you do 165 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: not feel part of the social fabric of the office, 166 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: or you do not feel like people are friendly to 167 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: you or kind to you, this will genuinely erode your 168 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: mental health. Belonging is one of our most essential emotional 169 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: and psychological needs, whether it is at home, in a 170 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: relationship out in the world. If you do not feel 171 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: like you belong, you kind of collapse inwards. Studies in 172 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: organizational psychology have shown us time and time again employees 173 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: that perceive themselves to be outsiders, people who feel like 174 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: they are being pushed out of the inner circle of work, 175 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: they are going to experience much higher levels of anxiety, 176 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: lower job performance, greater repeated intentions to quit. They also 177 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: have poor self worth because like it or not, so 178 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: much about our identity is tied up in our professional 179 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: lives and is tied up in our professional career. You 180 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: cannot avoid it. Whatever relationship you have with your work, 181 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: it's just the mere fact that you're spending so much 182 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: time there. It's going to mean you and your job 183 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: and your career will quickly become quite enmeshed, and you 184 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: and your co workers, and the relationship you have with 185 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: them will quickly impact your mental health if it goes wrong. 186 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: And the other thing about exclusion, because I think this 187 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: is a big part of office politics that happens a 188 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: lot to us in our twenties, but at any age, Like, 189 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: the big thing about exclusion is that it actually consumes 190 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: a lot of mental resources to be left out, Like 191 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: it consumes a lot of mental resources to constantly be 192 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: hypervigilant towards who's in the kitchen, who isn't talking to me, 193 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: who doesn't like me. It takes a lot of time 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: away from our actual job, our actual tasks. That means 195 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: that we perform poorer, which means we get more criticism, 196 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: which means we feel more excluded, which means that it 197 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: is just becomes this cycle of performance linked to exclusion 198 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: that then creates poorer performance and worse exclusion. This is 199 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: why office politics matters so much. It's not just about 200 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: promotions and recognition. There is this hidden world of inclusion 201 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: and status and validation and the way those things are 202 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: distributed that is going to directly impact your psychology as 203 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: an employee and as a person outside of work. Okay, 204 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: we're going to take a short break here because that's 205 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff all at once. But when I return, 206 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: let's talk about competition. Let's talk about gossip, and let's 207 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: talk about how you can use workplace competitiveness to your advantage. 208 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: So stay with us. Competition in the workplace, I think 209 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: is like the second worst thing about office politics, after 210 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: exclusion and after obviously like workplace bullying and harassment. But 211 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: competition is like, is fierce. It can ruin us emotionally 212 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: to feel like we are constantly on this hamster wheel 213 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: of trying to be better than the next person or 214 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: the person behind us, in front of us, beside us. 215 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: I remember when I I've had I don't know what 216 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: it is, but every actually I've never had a workplace 217 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: was not competitive, even when I worked at the steak restaurant. 218 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: When I worked at the steak restaurant in Uni, I 219 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: had this terrible boss where I talk about a lot 220 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: because I hated this man and he was awful to us, 221 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: and he had this hierarchy right of the employees that 222 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: he liked and the employees that he didn't. And there 223 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: were two employees that he always really liked, and then 224 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: there were like fifteen of us who were vying for 225 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: like three other positions in that like top five slot, 226 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: and it whether you were on the inn or the 227 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: out with him would like determine if you got to 228 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: leave early, how many tips you got, like what sections 229 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: you worked in, And that environment created so much competition 230 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: and like genuine like sabotage at like the steak restaurant. 231 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: Like I used to find it so funny that all 232 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: these politicians and academics and like very wealthy people would 233 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: be eating their i don't know, medium rare steaks, and 234 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: behind the scenes there was like all these like eighteen 235 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: to twenty seven year olds who had like major workplace 236 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: grief with each other or because of this environment that 237 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: this man created, all because of this competition. And then 238 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: that happened again in like my corporate job, and in 239 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: the corporate environment that I worked in, there is this 240 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: idea like there was always not enough to go around. 241 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: There was so much competition about who was staying the latest, 242 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: who was putting in the craziest hours. It was like 243 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: this badge of honor to have poor work life boundaries, 244 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: especially in your twenties, when again we talk about the 245 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: power that we have in our twenties, a lot of 246 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: the power that we have is that we can do 247 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: the brunt work. That's how we get ahead is by 248 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: doing the things nobody else wants to do. Back to 249 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: this competition thing, why why why do workplaces get so competitive? 250 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: It's because they are often structured around scarce resources. This 251 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: is really what it comes down to. It is a 252 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: resource problem. Bonuses promotions, who likes who, There's not enough 253 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: to go around. There's not enough love, admiration, money, corner 254 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: offices so that everybody can get one. This can very 255 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: easily turn colleagues into rivals. It is like a tailor's 256 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: old as time. We know in psychology that the scarcity 257 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: effect makes and turns us into irrational creatures. When something 258 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: seems more rare or less available, this changes how we 259 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: react to that thing, and it means that we often 260 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: do things we wouldn't because something seems exclusive or rare, 261 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: and therefore we want it more. Competition is always going 262 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: to exist in the workplace, especially if you're in a 263 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: very corporate competitive job market, but psychology tells us that 264 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: how we interpret competition is going to change its emotional 265 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: and vocational impact on us. Competition can be informational or emotional. 266 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: We want it to be informational. That is what we're 267 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: aspiring to because when it is framed in this way, 268 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: when it is framed as something that is helping us 269 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: to understand where we stand, helping us notice our weaknesses, 270 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: helping us push ourselves further, it can actually motivate growth. 271 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: When it is framed as emotional or threatening, A scarce 272 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: game like the one we're in means that somebody else's 273 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: success is always going to mean our failure, and that's 274 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: going to trigger envy, to trigger defensiveness. More crucially, though, 275 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: it's going to trigger more rash behavior that's actually going 276 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: to make you look worse and make you or turn 277 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: you into somebody who is antisocial, who could even do 278 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: bad things. Social psychologists really like to get into the 279 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: nitty gritty of the distinction here, and they like to 280 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: distinguish between benign envy, which motivates self improvement, and malicious envy, 281 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: which actually just motivates tearing others down and in the process, 282 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: we should say destroying us more destroying us because it 283 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: makes us look bad, destroying us because it takes all 284 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: of our concentration and energy we should be putting towards 285 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: our goals and our work, and it turns it towards 286 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: somebody else. I truly believe competition and envy are some 287 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: of the most powerful states of mind that you can 288 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: find yourself in because they actually they deeply reveal what 289 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: we want in life. It's probably one of the easiest 290 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: ways is to know what you desire. Who are you 291 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: jealous of? Who do you really envy? Because if there 292 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: wasn't something about them you secretly actually admired and wanted 293 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: or secretly found impressive, you wouldn't be jealous of it 294 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: because it wouldn't be something that you secretly wanted and 295 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: aspired towards. This knowledge can actually bolster your performance. There 296 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: was a two thousand and eight study I don't know 297 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: what university it was done at, maybe Brown, and it 298 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: found that exposure to high achieving peers boosted performance when 299 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: when the other participants saw their success as inspiring rather 300 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: than threatening. So when they saw somebody doing really well 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: and they were like, Wow, that's incredible, I really want 302 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: to be like them. It didn't eliminate competition. It made 303 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: competition a game. It made it something fun, It made 304 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: it a motivational resource that they could use to their advantage. 305 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: It became like a superpower, even if, like even if 306 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: the other people around you don't feel the same, Like, 307 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: even if you are the only one who wants to 308 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: treat competition this way in your workplace amongst your peers. 309 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: It is not like a I guess not as zeros 310 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: some game, like not everybody has to play for the 311 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: game to still go your way. You will still come 312 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: out exponentially better if you can do the mindset and 313 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: the psychological and the emotional work to turn competition from 314 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: emotional into informational. Listen, I kind of get it, Like, 315 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: you can have that mindset, and there's always going to 316 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: be somebody who doesn't, and there's always going to be 317 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: somebody who is going to take it too far. I 318 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: think few dynamics feel worse than realizing a colleague is 319 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: actively trying to make you look bad, whether it is 320 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: withholding information, subtle digs, questioning your competence in front of 321 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: other people, gossiping about you. Psychologists have a name for this, 322 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: it's called social undermining. It is deliberate behaviors that chip 323 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: away at somebody's reputation and even at their own ability 324 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: to get work done or to get things done. The 325 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: hypervigilance this creates is its own level of exhaustion. You 326 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: are basically going to work on the defense eight hours 327 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: a day, five days a week more. For some that 328 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: is going to change your stress response, change your emotional response, 329 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: change how you react in work and outside of work. 330 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to discount that in the slightest. If 331 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: you're going through something like this at the moment where 332 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: a boss hates you, a colleague hates you, somebody is 333 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: undermining you, somebody obviously doesn't want you to succeed and 334 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: is setting you up for failure. It is very easy 335 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: to maybe dismiss that and think, oh, it's just work, 336 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter, like I'll get through it. But 337 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: it is probably deeply impacting you. So I want you 338 00:20:58,640 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: to know I have a lot of empathy for that, 339 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: lot of sympathy for the situation you're in. There are 340 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: some things you can do, though, that are going to 341 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: make this situation not better, but more preferable for you. 342 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: This is what I think you can do if you 343 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 1: are in that hyper competitive maybe saboteur situation. Firstly, information tracking, 344 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 1: note taking, archiving is your best friend. Right now dates 345 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: what was said what was done. Any witnesses. This might 346 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: feel pretty bureaucratic and maybe petty at first, but if 347 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: this person genuinely doesn't like you, when it reaches the 348 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: point where their behavior is really injuring your reputation or 349 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: it becomes workplace bullying, this just gives you some leverage. 350 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: It gives you something that you can escalate to hr 351 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: and be like, hey, I am not crazy. This is 352 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: what has been done. When it comes to that's a 353 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: long term strategy. When it comes to responding in the moment, 354 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: the hardest part is that you have to stay strategic 355 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: than reactive. Half the time, a reaction is what people want, 356 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: even if it's not, it will help them. You having 357 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: an immediate, angry, furious, loud reaction is going to do 358 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: them favors. It's so unfair because all you want to 359 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: do is stand up for yourself. But you have to 360 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: try and stick to facts, not feelings. Keep it really 361 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: simple responses like I noticed X happened in the meeting. 362 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: Can you explain that to me? I noticed that you 363 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: said this. I don't understand why that's funny. I noticed 364 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: that you didn't send me that. Was there a reason 365 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: The use of questions against a bully or against somebody 366 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: who is competitive is the most important thing you can do, 367 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 1: because it shifts the need to explain and justify back 368 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: onto them, and it will very quickly show like the 369 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: gaps in their story or the moments that don't add 370 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: up to people outside of the situation. That's not to 371 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: say your emotions are not important. They act as a compass. 372 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: They validate your experience, they point out what's not okay. 373 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: But giving someone direct access to those emotions right now 374 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: is giving them a bit of a strategic advantage because 375 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: they now know what hurts you most where they can 376 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: deliver blows to make sure that you hurt, wear things 377 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: sting how to get what they want from you. Try 378 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: and keep them private from the person who is frustrating you. 379 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, I was going to say interrogating you, 380 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: but from the person who is obviously trying to make 381 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: your life a bit more miserable. Here's a final major 382 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: tip that I know from experience can be so hard 383 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: to avoid, but really try not to mirror their behavior. 384 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: Retaliation feels so satisfying biologically emotionally, but it entrenches the 385 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: toxicity and it really can cause damage to your reputation. 386 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: By staying professional, staying composed, you gain power. You become 387 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: the person others see is reliable, others see is steady 388 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: and competent, the one who rises above the drama over time, 389 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: that credibility is your biggest asset because it acts as armor. 390 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: And those colleagues, that boss, that manager who's trying to 391 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: undermine you, loses their influence against that steadiness. Let's talk 392 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: about one final aspect of workplace office politics that I'm 393 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: just realizing we haven't touched on it all, which is 394 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: bizarre because it's so so vital. I'm going to give you, guys, 395 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: like two seconds to guess. We're going to talk about gossip. 396 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: This is the question we all want to know the 397 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: answer to Should you gossip at work? Simple question, strangely 398 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: complicated answer. Gossip is complicated because it is social currency. 399 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: It is the social currency of the workplace. When you 400 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: have information nobody else knows, that is a commodity, That 401 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: is a commodity to trade. It's a way to socially 402 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: bond as well, whether we like to admit it or not. 403 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: Like people who gossip do have more and sometimes, let's 404 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: be real, they are more fun, but frequent, exclusively negative 405 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: gossip will carry real costs, and it's something that, especially 406 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: if you're in your twenties, you need to avoid. Despite 407 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: like the allure of like the immediate benefit of dopamine. 408 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: Like gossip brings dopamine, it brings oxytocin, it's bonding. A 409 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four study, though from researchers at the I 410 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: Think University of Leeds in the UK, they actually found 411 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: that it will often make you look worse. They conducted 412 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: a series of studies with like fourteen hundred participants. They 413 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: basically presented them with a hypothetical workplace scenario with colleagues 414 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: with gossipers with not people who don't gossip, and what 415 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: they found was that whilst the participants viewed the people 416 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: who gossiped as more sociable, they often actually liked them more, 417 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: they also viewed them as less moral, less competent, and 418 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: they were less likely to trust them or provide them 419 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: with promotions. In other words, gossip is like it's going 420 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: to give you the short term hit. It might grant 421 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: you short term inclusion, but it costs you credibility in 422 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: the long run. It's a piece of advice. My Mum 423 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: always used to give me. The worst person in the 424 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: office is not the person that makes mistakes, It is 425 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: the person who talks about them. So resist the urge 426 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: even when something feels juicy. I always like to assume, 427 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: like the person is in the next room. The person 428 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: can always overhear you, and I don't know what do 429 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: they say about reputation, like it takes takes five minutes 430 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: to build a reputation that will last a lifetime. And 431 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: if you want a gossip, if you don't want to 432 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: be excluded from like the water Fountain chat. Research published 433 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two highlights that actually engaging in positive 434 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: workplace gossip, talking good behind somebody's back a semi polar 435 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: sets that can actually make you more value well, we 436 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: can bolster social standing. It increases the rate and timing 437 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: of promotions, the study found, and it makes you feel 438 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: better at work. It's like nicotine replacement therapy for gossip, 439 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: or like junk food replacement therapy, like swap chocolate with 440 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: dark chocolate, swap cruel gossip with positive gossip. Before we 441 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: wrap up on our office politics episode, I want to 442 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: share some final advice for managing these situations that I 443 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 1: wish I'd known sooner. I was really reflecting on this 444 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: when writing this episode because our four hundredth episode, my 445 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: three Anniverse recents quitting my job, is coming up, and 446 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: now that I've had some distance from like corporate life, 447 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,360 Speaker 1: I think there are some objective insights that I can 448 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: share about my situation that hopefully you guys can take 449 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: advantage of. So stay with us. We're going to talk 450 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: about all of that and more after this short break. 451 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: Like I said, it has been three years since I 452 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: quit my corporate job to do well. Actually not three 453 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: it's been like two and a half since I quit 454 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: my corporate job to do the podcast full time. And 455 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: I feel like in the kind of months and years 456 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: after I quit that job, I always thought I was 457 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: gonna have to go back, and I always thought that 458 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: I was, Yeah, I was gonna have to ask for 459 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: my job back. So I never used to talk about 460 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: work or like that job really on the podcast. But 461 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: today I thought i'd do it, and I thought i'd 462 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of share some of the things that I'd learned 463 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: and that I wish i'd done differently, the biggest one 464 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: being I wish and I tell everybody this, this has 465 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: nothing to do with office politics, just to do with 466 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: being in an office. Use your sick leave. If you 467 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: have paid sick leave, I need you to be taking 468 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: a random like take those days off even if you're 469 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: not sick. I know that sounds bad. I don't really care. 470 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: I genuinely think that, Like you pay for those days 471 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: if sick days personal leave days were not. They are 472 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: part of your workplace package. So if your work did 473 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: not offer them, you would be getting more money, do 474 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like you are salary sacrificing 475 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: in general to have these days off, so you have 476 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: to use them if you have recently quit a job, 477 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: or if you are about to quit the job that 478 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: you just had call in sick for like the whole week. 479 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: And I know people are going to be like that 480 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: gives you a terrible reputation, that like really lets down 481 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: your coworkers valid And maybe you're a better person than 482 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: I am, but you will very quickly realize after you 483 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: quit that job that it is not the whole world. 484 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: Then it is not the whole universe. It's very easy 485 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: to feel like the reputation you have at that workplace 486 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: is going to follow you everywhere. Taking like a week 487 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 1: of sick leave after you quit is not going to 488 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: ruin your career, and in fact, I think it's probably 489 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: good and will increase your performance at your next job 490 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: to have that buffer. Second thing I would do if 491 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to get ahead. That one's not really a 492 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: get ahead tip, that's just a fuon tip. That's a 493 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: that's a lifestyle tip. My second tip for like getting 494 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: ahead at work, though, that I did at my old job. 495 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: At all my corporate jobs, reply to every single email 496 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: you are c seed in, even the ones that like 497 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with you. Now obviously not like 498 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: company wide email updates, but I mean, if you're on 499 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: a project and somebody sees you, just for visibility, always 500 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: email back. Always email back with a question, Always email 501 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: back with something or other, Just so that your name, 502 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: especially if you're in like a hierarchical like workplace, your 503 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: name is visible, like the effort that you put in 504 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: is visible. These are easy reputation bonus points, especially if 505 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: you're a junior. You know, it makes you seem super engaged. 506 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: It costs you like five minutes a day. Third tip, 507 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: do not burn bridges at work. Do not, at any 508 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: point you know, decide I don't need to be friends 509 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: with this person. I don't need anything to do with 510 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: this person. I am going to make the rash decision 511 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: to just like to just cut them out. Or I'm 512 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: bored by this person, or they're annoying me, so I'm 513 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: going to stop replying to them, or I'm going to 514 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: ignore them, or whatever it is. Like, even if this 515 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: person is incredibly frustrating, even if you think you will 516 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: never see them again, even if they are some distant 517 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: connection that has royally pissed you off, do not burn 518 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: that bridge. I can promise you right now, that person 519 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: will come back around. You will see that person again 520 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: at some point. It will be very awkward, obviously, if 521 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: they're like really awful, You're allowed to distance yourself. But 522 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: never think you're above anybody. Never think that you know 523 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: more than anybody body. Never let your ego get in 524 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: the way of being kind and respectful to people, because 525 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: it will always come back to bite you. I would 526 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: also say another big tip for my corporate people out there, 527 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: my corporate twenty somethings. If your boss is doing your 528 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: job for you, you are in trouble. I think this 529 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: is like the clearest litmus test for like, if you're 530 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: doing well at work, if you are doing your job 531 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: and you are doing it okay, even doing exceptionally doing okay. 532 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: If you're just doing your job and your boss isn't 533 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: constantly like this is a mistake, I've had to fix this, 534 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: blah blah blah bah blah, you're doing all right. If 535 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: you find that your boss is suddenly having to make 536 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: corrections having to ask you repeatedly for changes. If you're 537 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: finding that you submit something and it comes out in 538 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: a completely different manner, that's when I would really be 539 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: scheduling that one on one and being like, what can 540 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: I do and how can I do more? Doing that 541 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: shows so much incentive. Like genuinely reaching out for feedback 542 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: before feedback is provided gets you ahead of this problem 543 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: and gets you ahead of like I don't know, not 544 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: the consequences, but sometimes the embarrassment of not being told off, 545 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: but being criticized, And when you get criticized like unexpectedly, 546 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: that can be so painful. So that is my biggest tip. 547 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: And also ask for help. People love it when you 548 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: ask for help. They would rather that you ask for 549 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: help then they have to ask you for corrections. That 550 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: is something that when I was kind of a junior. 551 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: I remember one of my mentors saying to me, she 552 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: was like, I would much rather feel needed before the fact, 553 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: then feel like then feel like you are needy afterwards, 554 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: or feel like I suddenly have to do your job. 555 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: I'd much rather hand hold than do myself if it 556 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: means that the next time you were able to do 557 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: it my final thing. And this has nothing to do 558 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: with office politics workplace drama. Perhaps slightly it does, but 559 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: just like general career advice, you are allowed to leave 560 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: your job. You're allowed to quit, and you're allowed to 561 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: quit inopportune times. You are allowed to leave because you 562 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: just want to don't want to be there anymore. You 563 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: are allowed to let people down, even if they are mentors, 564 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 1: even if they are bosses you really want to impress. 565 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 1: I think it's so important that we remember in our twenties, 566 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: especially like, this is just a job. This is just 567 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: a job. As much as the hours that work demands 568 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: from us now get us really enmeshed in the identity 569 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: of work and in the identity of our career. At 570 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: the end of the day, your whole life could fall apart, 571 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: and this would be the last thing you were thinking of. Well, 572 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: hopefully it would be your whole life could fall apart 573 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: and this workplace, this job could go and would go 574 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: on without you. So make sure you have an identity 575 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: outside of work. Make sure especially that you have friendships 576 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: outside of work. Make sure that you are carving time 577 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,919 Speaker 1: outside of your job to be a human and not 578 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: just a machine and not just a career or not 579 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: just a workplace. Okay, that is my final tip for 580 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: the day. I hope you enjoyed this episode and you 581 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: enjoyed this little peek into the psychology behind office politics 582 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: and how to navigate it a little bit better in 583 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 1: our twenties. Thank you so much to our researcher Libby 584 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: Colbert for her research contributions to this episode. She is, 585 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: as always incredible. If you have made it this far, 586 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: leave a comment down below. What was your first job? 587 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: I feel like I've asked this question before, but yeah, 588 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: what was your first job? Mine was at a Boost Juice, 589 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: a smoothie shop in Australia, so I want to know 590 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: what yours were. Make sure that if you are in 591 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: the US, Australia, UK, Canada and New Zealand Southeast Asia, 592 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: that you watch us on Netflix. I feel like we 593 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: all know hopefully you guys all know this by now, 594 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: but the podcast is on Netflix. You can go and 595 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: watch full episodes there if you feel called to do so. 596 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: You can also just listen here, but make sure that 597 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 1: you are following along or subscribed wherever you are listening 598 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: so you get new episodes. You can follow us on Instagram. 599 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: You can follow us on substack. I feel like you 600 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: guys hear this all the time. The links are in 601 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: the description if you are searching for them. But until 602 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. 603 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: We will talk very very soon.