Speaker 1: I don't think that there are many people in the
Speaker 1: world who can claim that life isn't at least a
Speaker 1: little stressful sometimes, and that stress manifests itself in unexpected ways,
Speaker 1: like on our skin. But when it comes to alleviating
Speaker 1: our struggles, the relief of feeling seen and acknowledged is immense.
Speaker 2: He literally looks at me and goes, your poor poor guy,
Speaker 2: is like, I am so sorry that you have to
Speaker 2: go through this, and I literally almost cried. I mean,
Speaker 2: he just really felt and could see the pain and
Speaker 2: discomfort that I was going through.
Speaker 3: Hi, guys, and welcome. I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 1: I'm Nicole Berry and this is Skin Queries, a show
Speaker 1: all about our skin and its health as we grow
Speaker 1: in age. Our skin is really a record of a
Speaker 1: life well lived, because there isn't one body part that
Speaker 1: I can think of that reflects our well being as
Speaker 1: clearly as our skin. So let's go on this journey
Speaker 1: together to really understand what's going on with our skin.
Speaker 1: Let's unravel the mysteries happening inside and out. Today we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about stress and its effect on our skin.
Speaker 1: I know, for me, when things get to be too
Speaker 1: much whether it's a stressful day at work or there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on at home. I can see it
Speaker 1: on my body. I can wake up feeling inflamed, I
Speaker 1: break out, and my skin can seem dull and lifeless,
Speaker 1: and then you know how it goes. Seeing a physical
Speaker 1: response to stress just causes more stress than it ends
Speaker 1: up feeling like a vicious cycle. This episode is going
Speaker 1: to be very personal because I will be bringing in
Speaker 1: my husband, Nick Moskovich, to share his journey with plaxoriasis.
Speaker 1: If you don't know what that is, it's a chronic
Speaker 1: disease that can affect the skin. Your immune system becomes overactive,
Speaker 1: which causes skin cells to multiply quickly, and that can show.
Speaker 3: Up all over your body.
Speaker 1: There can be patches of skin that becomes scay and inflamed,
Speaker 1: and it's often seen on the scalp, elbows, and knees.
Speaker 3: Stress is such a big.
Speaker 1: Factor when it comes to siiasis, so much so that
Speaker 1: the National Psoriasis Foundation recommends managing stress must be part
Speaker 1: of your treatment plan. We'll also be talking to Nick's dermatologists,
Speaker 1: who's going to explain why stress manifests physically on our
Speaker 1: skin and how to manage it. So let's get into it.
Speaker 1: So we are back here with the one and only Nick,
Speaker 1: my husband.
Speaker 4: A lot of pressure here.
Speaker 1: Yes, Nick and I have been married for almost ten years.
Speaker 1: Next year will be our tenth anniversary time. Yes, and
Speaker 1: we have two little ones. And I remember when right
Speaker 1: after we had Jude, we were living in New Jersey
Speaker 1: with my mom and things were just really stressful, and
Speaker 1: you started to notice something happening with your hands, right,
Speaker 1: they got really dry and cracked, and we were figuring out, like,
Speaker 1: what is this, which eventually we came to discover that
Speaker 1: it was psoriasis, but that took a long time for
Speaker 1: us to figure out. So do you remember when you
Speaker 1: first started noticing something going on with your hands?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, by the way, you look beautiful, very nice. Nice
Speaker 2: to see you from this cell.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We were in New Jersey living with the in laws,
Speaker 2: and I was helping out actually with relocating some items
Speaker 2: for your mom from the storage and then working on
Speaker 2: the house here. And it was a really stressful time
Speaker 2: because we were dealing with so many different factors of
Speaker 2: the house not being done, our son being born.
Speaker 3: Jude was like six months old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so all of that started to snowball on me,
Speaker 2: and I could just tell that it was more and
Speaker 2: more stressful, and I thought it was just me using
Speaker 2: my hands a little bit too much, and you know,
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, I'll just put some lotion on it,
Speaker 2: just a guy thing.
Speaker 4: Maybe the soapa musing is not good or something.
Speaker 2: My hands are just kind of can't keep up with
Speaker 2: my mind and everything else is going in my life.
Speaker 2: And yeah, they started to get kind of chapped a
Speaker 2: little worn in, like almost like a callus's situation. And
Speaker 2: then the more work I was doing, the more it
Speaker 2: would just kind of spread and continue to evolve and
Speaker 2: never really healing fully.
Speaker 1: I do remember you were complaining about your callous hands,
Speaker 1: and I noticed that's what I thought it was. It
Speaker 1: looked like callous dry hands.
Speaker 3: Were they itchy? Was it painful?
Speaker 2: So it started with just just kind of annoying. Honestly,
Speaker 2: it wasn't even like that discomforting. It was just I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, maybe they'll get better, you know, I'll
Speaker 2: just keep putting lotion on. I found a couple of
Speaker 2: brands that seemed to help, but in the end they
Speaker 2: were doing anything. They were just kind of moisturizing it
Speaker 2: for that moment, but not continually doing anything for that condition.
Speaker 2: And that's when I realized it was something more serious
Speaker 2: because it kind of went from my thumb to my
Speaker 2: pointing finger, to the finger to the left of it,
Speaker 2: and then it started to go on the other hand,
Speaker 2: and it just kept going and going. There was just
Speaker 2: no kind of relief of any kind. And that's when
Speaker 2: I started to get kind of start to panic. Is panic, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it really. It was really stressful because I was like,
Speaker 2: I've never experience this. I would literally squeeze my hands
Speaker 2: just like make a fist, and I could feel those
Speaker 2: callouses kind of breaking, and it would just become really
Speaker 2: difficult to grip anything to lift the kids up to walk,
Speaker 2: and then after that it has to continue.
Speaker 4: To get worse and flare up more and more.
Speaker 2: Is it went to my feet on my heel, it
Speaker 2: was almost felt like somebody just stabbing.
Speaker 4: My heel all the time. It was really really painful.
Speaker 2: So uncomfortable, that's awful. It would peel, it would just
Speaker 2: it was absolute worst.
Speaker 1: I think when someone is going through something, even if
Speaker 1: you live with them, even if you are incredibly close,
Speaker 1: you don't truly understand the struggle that they're going through
Speaker 1: until it starts to affect your relationship with them. And
Speaker 1: that's what happened with me and Nick.
Speaker 2: I'm out and I see a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: I meet people, and it became pretty uncomfortable for me,
Speaker 2: just of like somebody wanted to shake my hand or
Speaker 2: if I, like, you know, wanted to greet somebody, it
Speaker 2: just didn't feel right.
Speaker 3: It's self consciousness.
Speaker 4: Self conscious about the whole essageituation.
Speaker 2: So in insecurity, that's when I was like, I need
Speaker 2: to really take care of this and address what's going
Speaker 2: on here.
Speaker 1: Honestly, neither of us really knew what exactly was going on,
Speaker 1: but we knew something had to change.
Speaker 4: I don't have like the most fantastic diet like you do.
Speaker 4: You're very good at it.
Speaker 3: We're working on it. We're working on it.
Speaker 2: I am, yeah, I'm your lifelong project. But I was
Speaker 2: drinking like these juices and I thought I found something
Speaker 2: and had a cleaner sugar in it, but my body
Speaker 2: was not reacting well to it.
Speaker 4: I remember I went on like.
Speaker 2: A two three week like absolutely no sugar thing during
Speaker 2: that time as well.
Speaker 4: Might have helped. It might have been too late at
Speaker 4: that point too, but it didn't hurt, I'll say that.
Speaker 1: So when you finally decided that you've had enough with
Speaker 1: you know, home treatment and trying to like use lotions
Speaker 1: and potions, what was your journey in finding the right doctor?
Speaker 1: Did you find it right away?
Speaker 2: I spoke to a few specialists quote unquote, like you say,
Speaker 2: I could take on just about anything, like I can.
Speaker 4: Work through most things in my time.
Speaker 2: Talking to those doctors, I'll be like, oh, it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's just kind of annoying. It's this and that, but
Speaker 2: it's really inside, I'm just like screaming about man, this
Speaker 2: is driving me crazy.
Speaker 1: After a long time of searching and coming up with
Speaker 1: a lot of dead ends, a friend recommended we go
Speaker 1: to doctor Mitchell Klein, a dermatologist based in New York.
Speaker 1: You'll be hearing from him later. But when Nick walked
Speaker 1: into his office.
Speaker 4: He literally looks at me and goes, you're poor, poor guy.
Speaker 2: He's like, I am so sorry that you have to
Speaker 2: go through this, and I literally almost cried. I mean,
Speaker 2: he just really felt and could see the pain and
Speaker 2: discomfort that I was going through. And I've never had
Speaker 2: anybody react that way in terms of not only did
Speaker 2: he care but he understood. We talked, and we talked
Speaker 2: actually for at length, and he said, you know, I
Speaker 2: have other clients who have this condition.
Speaker 4: There's different things we can do.
Speaker 2: And and you write away that it was ciriasis, what
Speaker 2: version of csoriasis it was? And he said that, you know,
Speaker 2: you're obviously in a very strong whole situation. He's like,
Speaker 2: this does not typically happen with just like a healthy
Speaker 2: thirty year old. So I told him I have a
Speaker 2: stressful job, I have two kids, we have run a
Speaker 2: business together. There was a lot of things going on
Speaker 2: at the same time, and he said, listen, you got
Speaker 2: to find time for yourself to let go of some
Speaker 2: of those things, you know, take some deep breaths and
Speaker 2: like go for a walk and whatever time you can find.
Speaker 2: You have to like let go of some of the
Speaker 2: things that you're doing, that you're carrying, and that will
Speaker 2: help with your medical issue.
Speaker 3: Doctor Klein prescribed a treatment for Nick's blacksriasis.
Speaker 2: And within forty eight hours, I mean, it was it
Speaker 2: was magic. He said it was going to be like magic,
Speaker 2: and it was just that what was.
Speaker 1: The feeling that you had when he said I know
Speaker 1: what this is and I know how are we going.
Speaker 4: To fix it?
Speaker 2: Disbelieve I could not believe him, just because of you know,
Speaker 2: dealing with the condition for two years plus minus. You
Speaker 2: just kind of think that there's just that this is it.
Speaker 2: I'm going to live with this for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life. And that was really scary to me because
Speaker 2: I was really uncomfortable and really I'm not happy with
Speaker 2: what I was faced with. And the more he talked,
Speaker 2: the more I was like, I'm on board, let's try
Speaker 2: I'm willing to try anything at this point. And when
Speaker 2: he told me about some of the options and how
Speaker 2: he's treated patients before, the more it began to like
Speaker 2: kind of feel relief and comfort and everything that he
Speaker 2: was saying. And that was, honestly the first time I
Speaker 2: had somebody who was like, I got the answer for it.
Speaker 4: We just got to figure out how do we get.
Speaker 2: You to continue to improve once I set you on
Speaker 2: this path of treatments.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, I've always perceived Nick as our rock. He
Speaker 1: is the foundation when it comes to our family, our friends,
Speaker 1: and also at work. So seeing how much he was
Speaker 1: suffering physically and mentally was extremely painful for us to see.
Speaker 1: At the time, I really was not realizing how much
Speaker 1: stress was playing a huge factor in Nick's flare ups,
Speaker 1: and once I found out that stress can be a
Speaker 1: major trigger for psoriasis, I actually felt a lot of guilt.
Speaker 3: I started to think of all.
Speaker 1: The ways that I personally was adding to the stresses
Speaker 1: of his life and kind of felt a little shameful
Speaker 1: and hopeless.
Speaker 3: Obviously, the feeling of shame.
Speaker 1: And guilt around Nick's diagnosis were irrational. Of course, it
Speaker 1: wasn't my fault, and thankfully we found doctor Klein, who
Speaker 1: was a lifesaver for Nick and myself, not only because
Speaker 1: we could get to the root of the physical problem,
Speaker 1: but the compassion and the understanding he met us with
Speaker 1: was such overlaf and also very essential. After doctor Klein
Speaker 1: helped Nick reset his system, they worked together to develop
Speaker 1: better ways for him to manage his stress and his
Speaker 1: flare ups. We'll get into that later. First, let's talk
Speaker 1: to the one and only doctor Klin about the relationship
Speaker 1: between stress and skin and how you can protect yourself
Speaker 1: from the effects of stressors in your life. Right after
Speaker 1: this break, welcome back to skin Queries. Let's unravel how
Speaker 1: stress shows up about our skin and what you can
Speaker 1: do to manage it. I'd like to introduce doctor Mitchell Klein,
Speaker 1: Nick's personal dermatologists and an academic with a private practice
Speaker 1: in New York City.
Speaker 3: Hi, doctor Klein, how are you hi?
Speaker 4: Nicole?
Speaker 5: How's everything great?
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. I kind of feel a
Speaker 1: little guilty because the person that we met through is
Speaker 1: my husband, Nick, who's not here to defend himself, but
Speaker 1: you're Nick's doctor and dermatologist. And then he also recommended
Speaker 1: our daughter, See who's now five years old. And you know,
Speaker 1: you really had a profound impact on Nick's life and
Speaker 1: his quality of skin, as well as our daughter. So
Speaker 1: I'm so excited for you to join us today.
Speaker 5: Oh well, thanks, it's my pleasure, my pleasure to be
Speaker 5: here for all of you.
Speaker 3: Do you mind telling us a little bit about yourself
Speaker 3: and your practice?
Speaker 5: Sure. I'm a clinical assistant professor in dermatology at while
Speaker 5: in New York Presbyterian. I trained an internal medicine at
Speaker 5: the University of Pennsylvania after medical school there, and then
Speaker 5: switched to dermatology at Cornell Memorials On Kettering and Rockfeller
Speaker 5: started private practice immediately after. And I've been in practice
Speaker 5: for a long enough time that I don't want to
Speaker 5: say how long. And I like all aspects of it.
Speaker 5: Dermatology has general cosmetic medical and so I enjoy engaging people.
Speaker 5: I do it for the people that I treat.
Speaker 1: I love that and that really comes through as a
Speaker 1: patient in your practice. And I'm so interested to hear
Speaker 1: your take on how things like stress and this is
Speaker 1: something that I actually learned later in life, that stress
Speaker 1: can really affect your physicality, specifically your skin. So can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about the relationship between stress,
Speaker 1: which essentially is a mental thing and it manifesting as
Speaker 1: a physical thing.
Speaker 5: Sure, so let's start with a mind body connection. It's
Speaker 5: the same, right, The brain is an organ, the skin
Speaker 5: is an organ. It's connected through all of the body.
Speaker 5: Chemistries that all the other organs are connected with so
Speaker 5: I don't really distinguish. And I think that you under
Speaker 5: stand that just as the brain and stress affect the
Speaker 5: heart and people know that well, it affects the skin.
Speaker 5: And in so many ways, there's well known science behind
Speaker 5: all of it. And I think that you know, it
Speaker 5: was a lack of understanding in the medical community for
Speaker 5: a long time that there was a brain out there
Speaker 5: and that there was this body and this skin, and
Speaker 5: that these two things were not connected, and how could
Speaker 5: that not be r right.
Speaker 1: It's so refreshing to hear you say that. As far
Speaker 1: as dress manifesting itself in the body and on the body,
Speaker 1: what can that look like? What have you seen in
Speaker 1: your practice?
Speaker 5: Well, if you think about the conventional problems that people
Speaker 5: talk about, like exema, psoriasis, which we'll talk about a
Speaker 5: little bit today, and all of the dermatosis, all of
Speaker 5: those things get worse or flair when you're stressed. And
Speaker 5: that's because people think of the immune system as being
Speaker 5: strong or weak, but it's very complex, and it's that
Speaker 5: the immune system changes and it activates all kinds of
Speaker 5: proteins and chemicals in the body, sometimes through nerves and
Speaker 5: sometimes actually through circulating chemicals. It can be hormones, cytokindes, interferons,
Speaker 5: and all of those things have an effect on the
Speaker 5: immunity of the skin, which causes blood vessels to dilate.
Speaker 5: It causes the skin to get thicker or thinner. It
Speaker 5: causes the skin to maybe get spots, to be more
Speaker 5: susceptible to spots and wrinkles, and also rashes. It changes
Speaker 5: those rashes very often much, much worse. So we always
Speaker 5: see this dramatic effect when we see somebody coming from
Speaker 5: a place of great stress, emotional or physical or both,
Speaker 5: because physical causes emotional stress, but emotional stress as well.
Speaker 5: And you see all of these things occur in the skin,
Speaker 5: and you see these breakouts of all sorts, and then
Speaker 5: you know it's apparent, and you know somehow that it
Speaker 5: just doesn't look right.
Speaker 1: Do you think that there or have you been able
Speaker 1: to identify certain triggers when it comes to a flare up,
Speaker 1: whether that is exima or psoriasis or other kind of
Speaker 1: skin inflammation.
Speaker 5: So the story usually goes that I didn't have anything,
Speaker 5: and now I suddenly have spots. That's called guttap'soriasis, and
Speaker 5: it's often from a strep throat. It can be stress,
Speaker 5: but also strap and so usually you ask questions about
Speaker 5: a sore throat because infections, infections that run through the body, viral, bacterial,
Speaker 5: cause stress and they also can cause a flare of psoriasis. Okay,
Speaker 5: so that's guttaped psoriasis, and you can go to other
Speaker 5: forms of psoriasis that affect other parts of the body.
Speaker 5: And again you see this and you hear from the patient, Well,
Speaker 5: I've had this chronic condition of my scalp, or I've
Speaker 5: had this rash on my elbows, or maybe my hands
Speaker 5: have been uncomfortable, but suddenly it's so much worse. I'm uncomfortable,
Speaker 5: And that immediately begs the question, well, what have you
Speaker 5: been through as they've been through a life stress? Has
Speaker 5: somebody been ill, somebody passed away? Are their family stresses?
Speaker 5: Do you have job stress or personal stress? And once
Speaker 5: you sort of elicit that history, it helps you because
Speaker 5: you're giving somebody insight into the fact that what they're
Speaker 5: going through is causing some of the problem. And we
Speaker 5: all know that we don't go through what we go
Speaker 5: through forever and that you know eventually as the stress
Speaker 5: kind of settles down, the skin will settle down, and
Speaker 5: you see this, you know, everything's worse. The skin's redder,
Speaker 5: the spots are scalier, they're more numerous, they're covering new
Speaker 5: areas of the body. Sometimes you feel like it's taking
Speaker 5: over your body because previously it was maybe one or
Speaker 5: two patches and now it's widespread or on your scalp,
Speaker 5: which can happen with people with psoriasis, and so you know,
Speaker 5: all important questions and always important to reassure someone again
Speaker 5: that you know, this is not going to remain this way,
Speaker 5: not with the medications and not with the treatments we
Speaker 5: have these days, and not with the fact that the
Speaker 5: stress is going to go away.
Speaker 3: You mentioned treatments, So what are the types of treatments
Speaker 3: that you treat psoriasis with?
Speaker 5: So there really are a thousand and so and foremost
Speaker 5: reassurance and then you move to well, what's easy. Well,
Speaker 5: they're topical creams. Sometimes they're steroid creams. People are terrified
Speaker 5: of that, no reason to be. We know how to
Speaker 5: control how much stereoid goes into your body with the cream,
Speaker 5: and sometimes we move after that into light therapy, but
Speaker 5: that's a little more evolved, but it also covers more
Speaker 5: of the body surface area before we get into systemic drugs,
Speaker 5: oral drugs or injectable drugs. In each one affects a
Speaker 5: different arm of the immune system, and all of them
Speaker 5: work to sort of slow or diminish the inflammation in
Speaker 5: the body, not just psoriasis, but psoriasis comes with arthritis,
Speaker 5: ziausis believe or not, comes with heart disease and stroke
Speaker 5: and all of these things which are risks if you
Speaker 5: have severe versions are managed and controlled with these biologics,
Speaker 5: which is why they're so popular.
Speaker 1: When you do talk to your patients, do you recommend
Speaker 1: or ask them questions about how to treat their stress
Speaker 1: in a non medical way.
Speaker 5: To get into that, because when you have something that's
Speaker 5: really profound and you're dealing with something that needs something
Speaker 5: that goes beyond the medicines you're applying, leaving that out
Speaker 5: of the concoction is a mistake. You know, if you're
Speaker 5: not talking about addressing depression, which can be addressed with
Speaker 5: you know, therapy and help and sometimes medication, you're talking about,
Speaker 5: you know, what are the social circumstances that you're in
Speaker 5: that are problematic that you might be able to do
Speaker 5: something about. And then also again very broadly, thinking about
Speaker 5: how do you get to those blue zones? You know,
Speaker 5: how do you get a piece of nature where I
Speaker 5: love meditation and exercise, you know, as a way of
Speaker 5: burning off that anxiety and stress.
Speaker 1: Shifting back to specifically storisis or other skin inflammation. I
Speaker 1: feel that at least for Nick, you know, he and
Speaker 1: many other people, they're usually run to the drugstore and try,
Speaker 1: you know, everything on the shelf and become their own
Speaker 1: kind of treatment mint guru until it comes to a
Speaker 1: point where he said, you know, I need to see someone.
Speaker 1: And my perception was that natural is better, but in
Speaker 1: certain cases it's not. So what would you say to
Speaker 1: people who are kind of at a loss?
Speaker 5: Right, So you try things, and I don't think there's
Speaker 5: anything wrong with that. In general. For skin, things that
Speaker 5: hydrate and moisturize are always going to help all aspects
Speaker 5: of the skin. And then you know, if you think
Speaker 5: about it, and just in a really basic common sense way,
Speaker 5: it's when you say to yourself, you know, I'm not
Speaker 5: getting any better, maybe worse, but not getting any better.
Speaker 5: And who is it out there who has some expertise
Speaker 5: or training. It might I even not Alie with my
Speaker 5: way of thinking. You know, maybe I think of only
Speaker 5: traditional Eastern methods and natural methods. But I need to
Speaker 5: find somebody who's going to give me something that's going
Speaker 5: to give me relief and put me in a different
Speaker 5: direction because I'm uncomfortable, I hurt, I itch, or I
Speaker 5: just don't feel good about the situation, or I don't
Speaker 5: feel good about the fact that my child has a
Speaker 5: rash over their body and it's just not coming under control,
Speaker 5: and the child is itching and scratching, and all right,
Speaker 5: it's time. Let's see if we can find somebody professionally
Speaker 5: who will put us in the direction and not just
Speaker 5: immediately give us something that conflicts with what we believe in.
Speaker 5: How about maybe just doesn't dismiss us for how we
Speaker 5: feel as people.
Speaker 1: Doctor Klin, thank you so much. This was such an
Speaker 1: enlightening and great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 5: Oh thanks for bringing me in. And that's why we
Speaker 5: do what we do.
Speaker 1: It feels great, honestly having someone who hears you and
Speaker 1: sees you can be life changing. It made such a
Speaker 1: difference that doctor Klein was compassionate and present during his
Speaker 1: appointment with Nick. I think that's essential, especially when you're
Speaker 1: dealing with something that's not only physical but mental. Let's
Speaker 1: bring back my husband now to talk about how he's
Speaker 1: currently dealing with hysteriasis flare ups.
Speaker 2: I'm still kind of discovering new things about what does
Speaker 2: help me, what does trigger me, and what does not.
Speaker 2: I try to space things out that I know will
Speaker 2: stress me out, you know, and if I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: I got address these like three major things that I
Speaker 2: just I hate working on or I hate facing I'll say, okay,
Speaker 2: i'll do one today, I'll do one in two days,
Speaker 2: I'll do another one later down the line. In the
Speaker 2: past that would have done all of them at one time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one day, one hour. I also tried to make time
Speaker 2: for myself with like grabbing a sandwich or a coffee
Speaker 2: and just sitting in the park and just staring at
Speaker 2: a tree. Just finding time to do that, continue to
Speaker 2: take just those small moments for myself really made a
Speaker 2: huge difference. And being able to do that and just
Speaker 2: creating time for myself in that way has really helped out.
Speaker 2: If you're dealing with this, you're not alone. There are
Speaker 2: people out there that understand your condition and keep at it.
Speaker 2: There's people that will help you and you'll get through it.
Speaker 3: That's so important. Thanks, babe, I love you, Love you too.
Speaker 1: For me, this is such a healing episode because we
Speaker 1: really got to ask Nick about how he's feeling, which
Speaker 1: is not something we often talk about. I think Nick
Speaker 1: is actually really quiet when it comes to his own emotions.
Speaker 1: He's really strong and really good at getting things done,
Speaker 1: but here he was so honest and vulnerable and I
Speaker 1: just want to honor him for that. It also really
Speaker 1: helped having someone like doctor Klein who was very patient
Speaker 1: and open minded when it came to my own approach
Speaker 1: to alternative healing. When it comes to my own philosophy,
Speaker 1: I don't discount mainstream medicine, but I also don't solely
Speaker 1: rely on holistic medicine either. I really want to see
Speaker 1: what's going to work for someone with a specific situation,
Speaker 1: but I think it's really important to find a doctor
Speaker 1: who understands you and sees you and has the compassion
Speaker 1: in patience so that they.
Speaker 3: Can meet you wherever you are.
Speaker 1: Another big thank you to our guests Nick Moskovich and
Speaker 1: doctor Mitchell Klein for sharing their experiences. Skin Queries is
Speaker 1: hosted by myself Nicole Berry, an executive produced by Evon Sheehan.
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tory Weldon. Our juniors are Reem
Speaker 1: Alma Grabi and Jenny Cunningham. The show is mixed and
Speaker 1: features original music by Sam Sagan. If you enjoy the show,
Speaker 1: share it with your friends. You can also listen and
Speaker 1: follow on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. We'd love to know what you think,
Speaker 1: so make sure you leave a review until next time.