1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: To become a homeowner is a lot of hard work, 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: especially for a family that doesn't have credit or has 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: some credit challenges, has low income. Owning your own home 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: and being successful with it is a ton of work, 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: and we can't do that work for you. It's about 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: the family being willing to put in that hard work, 7 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: and then it acts we're a coach because then at 8 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: the end they've achieved something amazing. They don't need us 9 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: at all. But even better than that is when they 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: help that next family member buy a home without us. 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney, 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 13 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a high school football 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: coach in inner City Memphis. And the last part, somehow 15 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: it led to an oscar for the film about our team. 16 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 2: That movie is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems 17 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: will never be solved by a bunch of fancy people 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: in nice suits and big words that nobody ever uses 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army of 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: normal folks. Guys, that is us, just you and me, 21 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: seeing in the area of need and deciding, hey, maybe 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: I can help. That's what Michael Gosman, the voice you 23 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: just heard, has done. Michael is the head of AXE Housing, 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: which has helped over four thousand low income families purchase 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: homes to an incredible empowerment model that I hope will 26 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: spread across the country and candidly, I'm dying to bring 27 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 2: it to my hometown, Memphis. I cannot wait for you 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 2: to meet Michael. Right after these brief messages from our 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: general sponsors. Michael Gosman from the Beer Place, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 30 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: what's up. 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: Absolutely thrilled to be here. 32 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: Thrilled to have you. When when did you get in? 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: I got him last night. Yeah, a little late. I 34 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: got in about eight thirty, but it was not too 35 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: late for me to explore just a little bit because 36 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: it's my first time in Memphis, so I had to 37 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: take advantage of it. 38 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: What'd you get to see? 39 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: I got to see some live music, so I walked 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: over to Bill. Yeah, no, I went to the what's 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: it called City Cafe? 42 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, there was there was live music at Blue City. 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: There was. Yeah, it was Mine Morris. 44 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 2: Moose Blonde, Willie Morse and Willie Morris. 45 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that's all it was. I mean, it 46 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: was so cool and I wasn't hungry, and I still 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: ordered some food because I had a buddy who's like, 48 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 1: you got to try the greens They're so good. Yeah, yeah, 49 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: no I did. I couldn't go that deep. It was 50 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: like ten o'clock at night. 51 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: You got to come back tomorrow, now, I mean, you 52 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 2: got to come back soon and draw the ribs. 53 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: But we did get them at your favorite hotel too. 54 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: Finally, you stayed at the Bay. 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: Body what a place. See see, it's very cool. And 56 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: please don't tell the hotel that they had a little 57 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: soap that's carved like a dock. 58 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: And I stole everybody does everybody does well. I wish 59 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: you had more time to enjoy our city. You're not 60 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: far from the National Civil Rights Museum, Bill Street and 61 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: the music. You know, we are the home of the blues. 62 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: We are the home of the rock and roll and 63 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: Elvis and Cherry Lee Lewis and Aretha Franklin and Isaac 64 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: Hayes and you know Roy Orbison. So much of that 65 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: is still ingrained in our gritty, GrITT and grind Memphis fabric. 66 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: And I love it when somebody from Milwaukee comes and 67 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: only spends five five hours here but has a smile 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: on their face. We got a lot to offers, for sure. 69 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: I got to come back. Yeah, I hope you. 70 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: I hope you do. Michael is the president and CEO 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: of AXE Housing based in Milwaukee, and honestly, Michael, I 72 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: want to come You want you to come back, and 73 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: I'm dead serious about this. I want to introduce you 74 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: to our city and our county mayor, and I want 75 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: them to engage with you because I think AS is 76 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: the answer to so much of what ails so many 77 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: of our urban areas. I think you guys have I'm 78 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: really as I've read all of the information that Alex 79 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: gave me on you and your organization, I just kept thinking, 80 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, why hasn't this been 81 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 2: done before? Oh my gosh. So I can't wait to 82 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: dive in. And I am dead serious. I invite you back. 83 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: I really hope you'll take me up on it. Spend 84 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: a couple of days into're a city, and let me 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: introduce you to some people in Memphis, because I think 86 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: what we're about to find out about what you and 87 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 2: AX does. We need what you do, as do many 88 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: other cities so let's get into it, and we're going 89 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: to get to where you are, but could you just 90 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: first tell us kind of the founding story of Acts 91 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 2: and how it evolved before you ever even showed up, 92 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: when you were just a twinkle in your mommy's eyes. 93 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: So AXE was founded more than thirty years ago, and 94 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: it really came from a rather simple premise, which was 95 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: the priest at Saint Michael's Parish on twenty fourth in 96 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: Cherry in the city of Milwaukee. He was getting frustrated 97 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: that he was trying to build a strong congregation there 98 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: and there was some struggles. So the neighborhood around the 99 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: church wasn't doing too well. 100 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 2: I've been to Milwaukee once actually for a birds game. 101 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 2: Give us what twenty fourth in Cherry is kind of 102 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: topographically to the city geographically. 103 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're talking about a neighborhood community. It's like 104 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: a mile and a half from our central downtown district, 105 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: and so it is city, so it is very central, 106 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: but it feels a world apart from actually being in 107 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: our downtown, which now is a fairly thriving place. So 108 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: it was a neighborhood that was had a lot of crime, 109 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: had fairly expensive rents, even though the quality of the 110 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: homes and the apartments that people were renting were quite low, 111 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: and the church was struggling because they'd had an influx 112 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: of refugees from Southeast Asia. So actually a large among 113 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: population individuals who'd helped the US during the Vietnam War. 114 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: They got resettled by Catholic charities, and many of them 115 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: wound up renting apartments right in this area around the church. 116 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: So let's talk about that a little bit. We're talking 117 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: the seventies. Yeah, the end of the Vietnam War. So 118 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: these are Southeast Asians, primarily from Laos. 119 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Laotian people. Typically they had spent then years, 120 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: many many many years living in refugee camps and Thailand 121 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: before they actually came to the United States. 122 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: But they had to do the refugee camps, right because 123 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: described their involvement with the United States military and Vietnam 124 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: and why they were refugees in the first place. 125 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'll use one of my colleagues's former colleagues 126 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: as sort of husband as an example. I mean, he 127 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: was a key partner, you know, he was working as 128 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: a part of one of one of the units and 129 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: had a real belief that democracy was important. Also, you know, 130 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: developed strong relationships with some members of the military, and 131 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: yet you know, the war ends and and sort of 132 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: life is upended, and so they wind up being refugees 133 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: for a long, extended period of time. And I know 134 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: for some, for some that was a period of years, 135 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: for some it was much much much longer, until eventually 136 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: some of them were able to because of their service 137 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: to the United States, were actually able to move to 138 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: the United States, and many of them settled in Wisconsin. 139 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: A lot of them settled in Minnesota and some other 140 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: parts of the country, typically in partnership with the Catholic Church. 141 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: So it was through Catholic charities and in Wisconsin that 142 00:07:58,200 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 1: many of them got settled. 143 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: I think it's important for our listeners to remember or 144 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: be aware of. Oftentimes these refugees are here because they 145 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: assisted us in some war theater where they assisted the CIA. 146 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: Great may if I'm wrong, but they're just the CIA 147 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: and we lost or we left, and now that people 148 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: in control were our enemies, which are now their enemies, 149 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: and then they get persecuted. Was that the case with 150 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: these folks? 151 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And my understanding of the life and the refugee camps, 152 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: which is where they were, you know, in the aftermath 153 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: the wars that that was that was not a great place, 154 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: that was not a great place to be. And so 155 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, obviously you'd like to think that we as 156 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: a country can do right by people and if they've 157 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: really gone on a limb to try and support us, 158 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: that then we can offer them something in return. By 159 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: the way, these tend to be like the hardest working, 160 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: most incredible, democracy minded individuals. They buy into our culture completely. 161 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: So and I. 162 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: Can't help but think, and again we're talking about the 163 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: founding and the seventies and get there. But I can't 164 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: help but think that these are were our generation Afghan interpreters, 165 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: same type people people who have assisted our military and 166 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 2: Afghan war. And then when we had our disastrous pull out, 167 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: were left there and then the Taliban were hunting them down, 168 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: killing them, persecuting them, jailing them for assisting us against them. 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: And when we left Afghanistan and we left them, what 170 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: are they to do? And so that's what these people are. 171 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: They're just the Laotian folks. What are they called their 172 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: mun they're among people. They are from laos Hmong, Okay, 173 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: the among people from laos that fought and helped and 174 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: advised and interpreted and gave are Cia and our military 175 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: information and fought alongside us for the for to try 176 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: to for democracy's sake. And when we lost and we left, 177 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: they're screwed, right, Yeah, Okay, so that's who we're talking 178 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: about who end up somehow getting here through the Catholic Church. 179 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: But now they're these guys. 180 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: In America, right, and they're you know, they're sort of 181 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: plopped down and the church did the best they could, 182 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: but they're they're a part of this congregation. They don't 183 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: necessarily speak the language yet. But this was a group 184 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: of incredibly hard working people. And so the church actually, 185 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, it was growing because you've got all these 186 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Mung families who now are a part of the church. 187 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: It's a really special place. The church still i think 188 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: says Eastern Mass and seven languages as part of. 189 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 2: The service, kidding because it's awesome. 190 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: In addition to the Mung families, now there's there's Burmese 191 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: families and there's multiple Bermese dialects. There's Hispanic families, there's 192 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: white families, there's black families. It's a really cool place. 193 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: There aren't many places in the country that worship and 194 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: such a diverse, you know, such a diverse group of 195 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: people come together to worship. It's it's very cool. But 196 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: the priest who was leading the congregation at that time 197 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: was seeing that here's these people. They're so hard working, 198 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: but you know, they're renting homes from often slum lords. 199 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: And even though they were, you know, doing the best 200 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: they could and they were all working, the amount of 201 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: money they had left over at the end of the 202 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: month was extremely small. And he wanted them to put 203 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: down roots and become a part of the church long term. 204 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: He didn't want them every single year, every few months 205 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: need to move because you know, the homes weren't being kept, 206 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: or because the landlords were trying to jack up the rent. 207 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: And so we said, well, what if we could help 208 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: them actually buy homes. What if you know, these these 209 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: are responsible, working people, but they didn't know about our culture, 210 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: they didn't know about the home buying process, and so 211 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: it was clear that and they didn't have a lot 212 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: of money, and they didn't have a lot of money, 213 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: and they were tended to be debt averse, so even 214 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: the idea of a mortgage wasn't necessarily something that you know, 215 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: was intuitive to them or something they were comfortable with. 216 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: So it wasn't going to be an easy process. But 217 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: he said, these are the types of peace we want 218 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: owning homes in our city, right, right, We wouldn't want 219 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: want them to be temporarily here. We want them to 220 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: put down roots and be a part of building you know, 221 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: a great, a great neighborhood. And so he was. He 222 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: was smart enough. The priest, Father Dennis Lewis, he's still 223 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: he's still around, amazing visionary leaders still in the Milwaukee community. 224 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: And but he was smart enough to know he couldn't 225 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: do everything. So he needed a partner. He needed someone 226 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: who could actually operationalize this, right because Father Dennis is 227 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: mostly going to be, you know, performing his pastoral duties. 228 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: He can't be running this housing program. And so he 229 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: went he went to the mayor of Milwaukee at the 230 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: time and said, I need some help hold it. 231 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: That's government and church working together. 232 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: I know, right, this is blasphemy. This story is going 233 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: to blow your mind. It's it's a fascinating one. And 234 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna maybe not share the names of all the 235 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: individuals are involved. 236 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: To protect come on to share them let's go. But 237 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 2: go ahead, I got you. And the priest reaching this 238 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: is still seventies. 239 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: Well this is this is actually late eighties. Okay, this 240 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: is late eighties. 241 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: But he's got that. Okay, seventies. The people calm. Now 242 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: it's a decade of it. His church is growing with him. 243 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: He sees a need and he reaches the mayor exactly. 244 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: And the mayor at the time was rather forward thinking. 245 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: He sort of bought into this vision and he had 246 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: the i think, the intelligence to realize that while this 247 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: was a great idea, it didn't need to be a 248 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: city program. That you know, if we tried to make 249 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: it a city program, it might not be as successful 250 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: as if there was some way to sort of make 251 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: it its own thing. 252 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 2: Partner started to love you, mayor or this mayor back then. 253 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: So he made an offer. This is the story. I've 254 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: heard this story many many times. He made an offer 255 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: to the priest and he said, so, okay, go down 256 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: to the Department of City Development and see see if 257 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: there's anyone there that you think could really help you 258 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: with this. And so the priest goes to the Department 259 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: of City Development a father Dennis, and he looks around 260 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: and this is his perception. He sees a bunch of 261 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: mostly men wearing sort of business shirts. You know, they 262 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: had like, you know, pencils in their pocket, and they've 263 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: got very neat desks, and they just don't seem like 264 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 1: the type of person to him who's going to be 265 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: able to really come into the community that he's a 266 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: part of and make an impact. And there's one desk 267 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: that's just a mess it's just you know, it's it's messy. 268 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: And he's visited now a few times. He never sees 269 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: anyone there. He's like, well, who sits there. It's like, well, 270 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: that's that's a guy named John Worm. You know, yeah, 271 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: he works, he works here, but he's he's always in 272 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: the community. He's always got some some you know, special 273 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: projects he's working on. You know, we don't see him 274 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: that much. And father Dennis said, that's my guy, and 275 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: so he started partnering with this John Worm, the city employee, 276 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: and and the two of them, you know, we're the 277 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: leaders of the organization and they're the reason that the 278 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: work we do today helping families transition from renters to 279 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: owners is happening, is flourishing at a huge scale just 280 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: from those sort of humble, humble beginnings. 281 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first, 282 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: we're thinking about launching a few low chapters of the 283 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: Army this year. To dive more into it, check out 284 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: our recent shop Talk episode titled experimenting with Local Chapters, 285 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: and if you're interested in potentially leading a chapter in 286 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: your community, email Army at normal folks dot us and 287 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: Alex would love to connect with you. We'll be right back. Okay, 288 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: So at the beginning, you got a priest, you got 289 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 2: a mayor's blessings, and you got messy worm. Mm hmm, boy, 290 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: this sounds like a recipe for success if you ever 291 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: came up with right now, what was their idea then? 292 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? So the idea was, we need to make the 293 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: real estate market work for these these refugee families. So 294 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: how do we do that. We need to figure out 295 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: how to first of all, get them to a place 296 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: where they can get financing. So there's going to be 297 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: some work with them to establish credit. We're going to 298 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: need to talk to them about the importance of that. 299 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: This wasn't an issue of credit repair. These were individuals 300 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: who you know, had just zero They just had zero 301 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: credit right, So how do we help them start to 302 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: build some credit, and then how do we develop the 303 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: relationships with banks that we're going to need so that 304 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: when we have a good loan, that we're able to 305 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: navigate that with the family. Because these families, you know, 306 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: some spoke some English, some spoke very little English. You know, 307 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: they were still adapting to living in this country, and 308 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: they weren't going to be able to navigate the banking 309 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: system on their own. 310 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: But I hear this, and I'm still thinking these largely 311 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: have to be middle income at best to lower income folks, 312 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: although maybe everybody in the family's working and cumulatively they're 313 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: making enough money to get along, but they're basically barely 314 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: paying rent and getting along. The idea of a two 315 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars house seems a little difficult. But they 316 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: also figured out a way that the city could take 317 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 2: non performing assets and get them on the tax rolls, 318 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: which is also incredibly bright and interesting to me. 319 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this wasn't the age of the two hundred 320 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. 321 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: Homes, okay, even eighty back. 322 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: Then, this was this was the time of the dollar homes. 323 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: You know, there was such distress in the neighborhood around 324 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: the church, that there were a lot of deeply distressed homes, 325 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: and there were opportunities for these families to actually purchase homes, 326 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: sometimes for a dollar, sometimes for one thousand dollars. Put ten, fifteen, 327 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: twenty thousand dollars into these homes, and actually that was 328 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: enough for them to be decent, safe, and code compliant 329 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: in a lot of instances. 330 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: Okay, but this is what I just when I read 331 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: this part. I'm telling you, bro, this is when I 332 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 2: just went crazy. You've got homes that have been foreclosed 333 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 2: on or abandoned and that the city is really now 334 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: responsible for because they're gone there. Nobody's paid the taxes 335 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: and they're just sitting there. It's a plot of property 336 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: with the bones of a house still sitting there and 337 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 2: nobody to pay the taxes, and it ends up being 338 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 2: on the assessor's rolls, the city or county assessors roles 339 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: of properties. And every once in a while they have 340 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 2: tax sales, and tax seals come up and slum lords 341 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: come and by them and put them very littlest amount 342 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: of work that can in them and rent them. That 343 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: happens all day, every day in cities, all the country. Yes, 344 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: all right, So what the city is saying is, if 345 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 2: you can get your people to learn how to buy homes, 346 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 2: will open up the roles of these properties that we're 347 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 2: getting absolutely no tax revenue for, and we'll sell them 348 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: at almost nothing. If these people come in, fix them up, 349 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: pay a note, and therefore start paying property taxes. So 350 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: when I caught when I read that, it's like, hold it. 351 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: This is a win win. You're getting people in ownership, 352 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: you're getting people out of out of renting, and you're 353 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 2: getting dilapidated properties fixed up, and the city is now 354 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 2: getting tax revenue on properties that have that are nothing 355 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 2: but a drag on the city's balance sheet. Is that 356 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 2: is that it? 357 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: I wish I could say it as well as you 358 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: just said it. That's exactly that's exactly right. 359 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: Put worm and a priest came up with this in 360 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. 361 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty I mean, it's pretty amazing that they 362 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 1: had the vision to put this, to put this thing together. 363 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: So that's what happened, That's that's exactly it. And it 364 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: was what if we could help them get loans, what 365 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: if we could what if we could coach them through 366 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: the rehab of the homes because these families often were 367 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: very handy, but didn't know about our building codes, didn't 368 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: know about when permits needed to be pulled they need. 369 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: It's sort of a guide make sure they don't get 370 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: ripped off when they're contracting for the services that they 371 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: were getting. And it was really the two of them 372 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: at the start, and they were really smart. The way 373 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: they went about this was incredible. You know, they were 374 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: struggling early on to attract enough families for the sort 375 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: of dollar homes that were available. And they got a 376 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: call from a woman named Baliah among refugee wanting to 377 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: buy one of the homes, but she she already owned 378 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: a home. She wanted to buy it as an investment property. 379 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: And they said, okay, Bliah, you've missed. 380 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: One of the greatest parts about Lilia how she learned 381 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: to speak English. Watching Wonder Woman and Star Trek. I 382 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,439 Speaker 2: read that. I'm like, okay, I really that's how she 383 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: learned to speak English. According to what I've. 384 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: Read, she's I mean, one of the more She's someone 385 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: who whatever she decided to do in this world, she 386 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: was going to be wildly successful. She is so tenacious, 387 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: so hard working, so she hears a no from John Warren, 388 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: but she wants to buy a house, and he says, 389 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: this house isn't for you, Bilia. We're trying to help 390 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: new families buy homes. You already own a home. So 391 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: she decides to start letting people know about these homes. 392 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: And so there's an event. 393 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: So is it a foreclosed house? 394 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: Is that foreclosed homes? Foreclosed homes available for a dollar 395 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: at that time tax sale? Yes, And so even though 396 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: she has no ability to buy the home, she brings 397 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: six seven families out just for this one opportunity, because 398 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: she knows what a good opportunity it is, and she 399 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: wants to share that with her community. And so John 400 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: sees that she's brought, you know, a lot more people 401 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: to this home than he's ever getting. When when he's 402 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 1: trying to recruit and he says, what are you doing 403 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: for work right now? And you know, she explains to 404 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: him that she's got sort of a part time job 405 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: that she's doing. She's raising her kids, her husband's also working. 406 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: And he says, have you ever thought about being a 407 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: real estate agent? 408 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 2: Really? 409 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: And she says, no, you know, I can't read English 410 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: that well, I don't know anything about the practice of 411 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: real estate, and he said, what you just did getting 412 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: seven families to this house who wanted to buy this home, 413 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: that if you can do that, I will help you 414 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: get your real estate license. I'll help you understand the 415 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: real estate practice because you have what it takes to 416 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: be very successful representing this community. And Bileo wound up 417 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: becoming one of I think the first woman Southeast Asian 418 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: women in southeastern Wisconsin to get her real estate license, 419 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: and over what wound up being a twenty five year 420 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: ish career at ACTS before she retired, she wound up 421 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: helping something like six or seven hundred families, the vast 422 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: majority of whom were Southeast Asian families, purchase homes in 423 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: the city because of her work. 424 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 2: Okay, Dave, we're still at the beginning. We haven't even 425 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 2: gotten to what you're doing now. But if you go 426 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 2: to Shelby County is our county. If you go to 427 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: the Shelby County Assessor's Office property list right now online, 428 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: I think it's seventeen thousand properties in this county that 429 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 2: are in some level of process of taxes admin k foreclosure. 430 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 2: When I say foreclosure, not by banks because many times 431 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 2: they're eighty seventy sixty eighty nine year old homes, but 432 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 2: they've been abandoned. Nobody's pay taxes on them, and they're 433 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: just sitting there on the city's rolls or the county's rolls, 434 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: and they're producing absolutely no revenue for the city. And 435 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: actually the city's kind of responsible taking care of them 436 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: because they've had to take possession of them. Right. Meanwhile, 437 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 2: forty percent of the people inside the city of Memphis rent, 438 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 2: So you have all these homes that the city would 439 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: love to get any tax revenue on and get off 440 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 2: the rolls and get fixed up so you don't have 441 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: blight in some of these lower income communities. And you 442 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: have all these people paying rent, oftentimes the slumlords, or 443 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 2: at the very least paying for nothing and not building 444 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: any American dream ownership. This seems like the fix. And 445 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: you got worm and a priest and now believe the 446 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 2: Southeast Asian person actually doing this in Milwaukee. How many 447 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 2: homes I mean, first year, second year, you know, how 448 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 2: to grow? Yeah. 449 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: So, interestingly enough, at the start, the idea was really 450 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: just around the real estate peace and so they had 451 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: realtors that they were hiring sort of real estate professionals 452 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: to represent the families, and they didn't have a formal 453 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: education program for the families, but they had this vision. 454 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: They had some realtors who took a real interest in 455 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: supporting the community, and they pretty quickly were able to 456 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: do you know, maybe a few dozen homes a year, 457 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: which is prettyificant volume. And then over time there became 458 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: an awareness of you know, Okay, having the agents is 459 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: really important. We need families to represent. We need people 460 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: to represent the families make sure they're getting a good deal, 461 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: but we also need designated support. If they're fixing up 462 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: a distressed home, that's really hard. So we need to 463 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: make sure that families have some support in that work, 464 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: because especially if you've never owned a home before taking 465 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: on a massive rehab project, hiring out all your own contractors, 466 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: knowing the order of operations, making sure, yeah, you got 467 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: to do the roof before you start worrying about the kitchen, Like, 468 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: let's make sure that you're doing things in a smart 469 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: way to be successful and make good investments in the home. 470 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: And so over time we sort of have been able 471 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: to layer in some of that additional support in a 472 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: more formal way to make sure that First of all, 473 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: we can get to significant volume because the idea behind 474 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: our program is that neighborhoods do better when families have 475 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: the opportunity to own the homes they live in. And 476 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: if we can create more communities where there are large 477 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: numbers of homeowners, you know, the schools are going to 478 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: be better, communities are going to be safer, families are 479 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,959 Speaker 1: going to be healthier, and it's a good platform then 480 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: for these families to figure out what's next. Right you 481 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: accomplish this thing, you buy a home, you experience that 482 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: pride of home ownership. You've done something really hard. Well, 483 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,239 Speaker 1: then maybe you're ready to take a step in your 484 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: educational journey or in your journey towards a more meaningful career. 485 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: Maybe it gives you more ability to finance your kids' 486 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: education or to give them some opportunities. And so as 487 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: we've been able to sort of continue to invest in 488 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: these strategies and make sure that families have the right support, 489 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: we've seen that home ownership can flourish in a city 490 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: like Milwaukee, and we think that we've learned some things 491 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: that can certainly benefit a lot of other cities around 492 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: the country. And from what you're saying it sounds like maybe, 493 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, Memphis White might be one of those places. 494 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm bringing your butt down here. We'll be right back. 495 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: So back to chronologically how this happened. In ninety two, 496 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 2: father Dennis and John Worm said were onto something, yep, 497 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 2: and so they founded what's it called. 498 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: AXE Housing And they didn't even they didn't. 499 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: Even applied churches teaching self empowerment. 500 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was the initial name. That was the 501 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: name we were incorporated under. And it was it was 502 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: the two of them, it was some other church leaders 503 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: from the area who saw what they were doing and said, 504 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: we want this for you know, the neighborhoods around our 505 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: churches too. And they didn't even have like a five 506 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: oh one C three designation. They weren't even an official nonprofit. 507 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: They just started doing it right. They weren't worried about 508 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: sort of what what paperwork might need to be formed. 509 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: It was about, this is work that needs to happen, 510 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: let's let's start doing it. 511 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: I read I think it's on a website somewhere. I 512 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,439 Speaker 2: don't know where Alex found it. But they clarified their 513 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: vision putting people in charge of their own lives. AX 514 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: was not interested in more affordable rental housing. The organization 515 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: wanted documents to become owners as soon as possible, so 516 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 2: as went to work. And when I when I when 517 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 2: I read that, I also read about the father's attitude 518 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: toward if we can get people to own, that means 519 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: they invest in the communities and the communities improved. Talk 520 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 2: to us about that. 521 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so clearly there's a value to the individual family 522 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: through ownership. You know, often there's a savings. They actually 523 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: spend less owning the home than they were paying in rent. 524 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: They're building equity. But you know, key to Father Dennis's 525 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: vision wasn't just that that one family would be successful. 526 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: It was that the example that they would set for 527 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: the block, for the neighborhood, the fact that there would 528 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: be more families on the block who'd feel like they 529 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: have this ownership interest. It would mean that the neighborhoods 530 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: would get safer, people would be looking out for each other. 531 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: It would mean that there'd be much less moving around, 532 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: which is a huge challenge for the church and for 533 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. Now, if you've got families on a block 534 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: that are moving all the time, you're not building that 535 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: sort of network of support much more likely than to 536 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: attract nuisance, attract crime, have things maybe fester that otherwise 537 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: a longstanding homeowner wouldn't stand for. And so they really 538 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: focused on the area right around the church and figured 539 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: if they could get multiple homeowners on every block, that 540 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: that could not only improve the lives of the families 541 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: who are the new homeowners, but improve the lives of 542 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: the renters too, right, and also give them renters an 543 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: example of maybe home ownership something that you could strive for, 544 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: you could achieve. 545 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it makes sense. If I'm living on 546 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: a street and I'm renting a house and it's not 547 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 2: it's just a place that I stay because I pay 548 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: a monthly rent and there's a polish crap on a 549 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: curb then bothering me that bad. It's not my power 550 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: crap and it's not my curb. But when I own it, 551 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: if there's a power crap on my curb, I'm going 552 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 2: to find out who's dumping it. I'm going to get 553 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: it cleaned up, because now you're messing on my thing. 554 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: So when you instill ownership in a community, you instill 555 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 2: a sense of community bride and things start changing. 556 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, and I've we've seen it firsthand in Milwaukee. 557 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: I've seen it firsthand. I was talking with a homeowner. 558 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: I do some walking tours sometimes in areas where we've 559 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: had sort of the greatest impact, and I was talking 560 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: to a long standing homeowner. I didn't know they were 561 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: an AX alumnus. I just was walking on the start 562 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: talking to them, ask them how they bought their home, 563 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: and they wound up being an AXE homeowner. And while 564 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: we're talking, there's a car that's just sort of parked 565 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: on the block and the person in the car dumps 566 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: some trash out and I didn't see it happened. My 567 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: back was to the car. But the gentleman I was 568 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: I was talking to, said, hey, give me a second. 569 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: He goes, he knocks on the window and he talked 570 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: to the guy who dumped the trash and he said, hey, 571 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: don't do that. Don't bring that here. Right. And I'm 572 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: not saying that's. 573 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 2: The greatest story I've ever heard. That is perfect, is awesome. 574 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: And you know a renter could could do that too, 575 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: but way less likely. Right, this is someone who's had 576 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: a long standing stake in that block, and more likely 577 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: that they're because of that position, going to feel confident 578 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: to set some good some good norms for what goes 579 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: on in that block and what doesn't. 580 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: The more I hear about this, here's something else that 581 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: Alex said that I'd like you to comment on. Most 582 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 2: solutions are top down solutions. They don't deal with people. 583 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 2: They think if we just build enough, that's going to 584 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 2: fix things. But they don't necessarily solve the problem because 585 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: that doesn't help families provide for themselves. And what we're 586 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 2: doing at Access, we're starting from the bottom up. We 587 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 2: start with the family. 588 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the for Acts, it always started with the 589 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: individual family. So although the hope was that neighborhoods would 590 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: improve and that we would start this ownership ethic that 591 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: could be could be contagious. It was all about if 592 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: we can help one family improve their lives, if we 593 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: can work hand in hand with them, help them navigate 594 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 1: our home buying process, we're setting they're going to be 595 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: set up for success. And it's not about providing home 596 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: ownership to a family. And this is a real key 597 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: distinction and something that I really always like to make clear. 598 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: To become a homeowner is a lot of hard work, 599 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: especially for a family that doesn't have credit or has 600 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: some credit challenges, has low income. Getting ready to become 601 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: a homeowner, owning your own home and being successful with 602 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: it is a ton of work, and we can't do 603 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: that work for you. It's about the family being willing 604 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: to put in that hard work and then it acts. 605 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: We're a coach, right, That's how we see ourselves. We 606 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: see ourselves as how do we provide the families. We're 607 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: not on the field. They're the ones in the field, 608 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: they're the ones who are doing all this hard work. 609 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: But we want a position for them for success. We 610 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: want to help them understand the key habits that they're 611 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: going to need to invest in if they're going to 612 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: be successful. We get to cheer them on when they're 613 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: able to, you know, clear off debt and make strides 614 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: towards home ownership, and when they're falling short, we get 615 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: to at times give them a little you know, kicking 616 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: the butt, right, like, hey, we know you can do this, 617 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: and you know, based on what we've seen over the 618 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: last couple of months, is home ownership no longer something 619 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: that you're passionate about? Is it no longer something that 620 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: is a priority for you to be able to provide 621 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: for your kids. So sometimes we've got to do some 622 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 1: of that too, But it's about the family stepping up 623 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: and doing this really hard work because then at the 624 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: end they've achieved something amazing. And the coolest thing is 625 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: then they typically they don't need us at all. It's 626 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: not like they're coming back to us every time something 627 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: goes on at the house. Even more than that, pretty 628 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: often their next family member who buys a home, sometimes 629 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: they refer that family member to us, and that's that's 630 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: really cool. That's an honor when someone refers someone to 631 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: us and says that we can help them. But even 632 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: better than that is when they helped that next family 633 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: member buy a home without us, they don't even need 634 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: us anymore. And we don't always. 635 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 2: Hear that story into how things work, which is. 636 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: Beautiful exactly, and and so we don't always capture those stories. 637 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: But on my walks sometimes, you know, I on this 638 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: this very same block, I shared the story of the trash. 639 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: There was a gentleman and he had the nicest house 640 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: in the block, and he just had done a ton 641 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 1: of work on it. It was really impressed, and so 642 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: I saw him outside the house, and so I just 643 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: introduced myself to him, and I asked him if he 644 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: heard of Axe Housing and he said, heard of you. 645 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: Of course, I bought my first house with you, So 646 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,439 Speaker 1: you know, he bought his first house. And I don't 647 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: know if this was house number two or number three, 648 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: but he kept, you know, his family had greater needs. 649 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: He'd done well enough. He was able to sort of 650 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: move up, move on to that next house, but we 651 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: didn't help him with transaction two or transaction three. He'd 652 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: learned through the process. He was now able to access 653 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: the home buying marketplace successfully by himself with confidence. That's 654 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: the best case scenario. 655 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: If you don't care about that from a if you 656 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: don't care about that from a social point of view, 657 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 2: you should care about that just pragmatically, because you took 658 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 2: a renter who was really contributing very little to the 659 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 2: tax space, and you created a guy now who has 660 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 2: fault and rehabbed two or three homes and stepped himself 661 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: up in the tax space to continue to be a 662 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 2: greater contributor to your society pragmatically. If you don't even 663 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 2: care about the social sciety, pragmatically that is that is 664 00:35:49,480 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 2: how cities grow. And if you believe that we're only 665 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 2: as strong as the weakest link in the chain, and 666 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 2: you strengthen that weakest link. Think what that does if 667 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 2: you had that's one story. If you have ten thousand 668 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 2: of those, think of how your city changes. It's phenomenal. 669 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: So somehow I want to I really want to know 670 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 2: how you did this. Somehow throughs you worked out a 671 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: deal with the city. I may be screwing this up. 672 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 2: Straighten me out that properties valued less than twenty five 673 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 2: thousand that were on the city's foreclosure listing for more 674 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 2: than thirty days could be purchased for one thousand dollars. 675 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 2: Then those that have been on the listing for more 676 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 2: than sixty days can purchase for a dollar. And certainly 677 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 2: their inspection costs and things have to be done to 678 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: the house to get it livable. But the point is, somehow, 679 00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 2: the priest worm somebody got somebody at the city to say, yeah, 680 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: it makes more sense to get these off the rolls 681 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 2: and fixed up for blight for tax purposes. Who and 682 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: how did that go? Because that, to me is kind 683 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 2: of a public private agreement that serves everybody well. But 684 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 2: is that correct that properties valued at less than twenty 685 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars that were on the city's roles for 686 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 2: more than thirty days could be birth for a thousand bucks, 687 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: sixty days for a dollar. How did that all happen? 688 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 689 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I really think ACTS has always been i 690 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: would say, a strong partner to the City of Milwaukee. 691 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 1: And because of the early success we had helping families 692 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: purchase and fix up these distressed homes, it encouraged the 693 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: city to try and expand the partnership. How do we 694 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: create more pathways for home ownership? And what the city 695 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: was seeing was that when homes were taken through tax foreclosure, 696 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: typically one of two things was happening. And this is 697 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: really in the aftermath of like the two thousand and 698 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: eight foreclosure crisis that they started to have, you know, 699 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: massively more inventory, and one of two things happened. Either 700 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,919 Speaker 1: the home sold quickly to an investor, and I'll put 701 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: investor in quotes, because most of the individuals who are 702 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: buying those homes, many of them, you know, they aren't 703 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: from our community, they don't live in Milwaukee, and they're 704 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: seeing dollar signs, right, They're seeing dollar signs. They're hoping 705 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 1: that they can you know, just not do any repairs, 706 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: hopefully put someone who's desperate in the apartment or in 707 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 1: the home, charge a bunch of rent, and then you know, 708 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,439 Speaker 1: ultimately those homes pretty frequently they get lost because because 709 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: they're not maintaining them and they're just trying to create 710 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,839 Speaker 1: as much short term sort of rental income as they can. 711 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: So the city saw a lot of that activity happening, 712 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: which they saw is very negative. Or some of the 713 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: more just stressed homes, they would just sit forever. And 714 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: the longer a home sits vacant, the worse it gets 715 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: and the least and then it becomes less likely that 716 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: it can be reclaimed because a lot of the homes, 717 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: once they've sat for years, you know, they really do 718 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: need to be torn down. By the way, if the 719 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: city owns the property, that's twenty twenty five thousand dollars 720 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: maybe depending on the size of the home, for the 721 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: city just to tear it down, and then you've got 722 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: a vacant lot. And in most of Milwaukee's neighborhoods, unfortunately, 723 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: there is not a sufficient market for brand new construction. 724 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: You wind up spending a lot more to build a 725 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: new home than you can sell that home. For and 726 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: so the vacant lots are a big problem because long 727 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: term it means they just sit there. There's a vacant lot. 728 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: It's not good for the block, it's not good for 729 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,919 Speaker 1: the neighborhood, and it's very bad for the city's tax base. 730 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 2: And the grass doesn't get cut and it looks like 731 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 2: a hell and that makes the community feel bad. 732 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: And so so the city was pretty proactive about wanting 733 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: to partner with us and others to see how can 734 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: we get more of these homes into owner occupied state. 735 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: And as a result, especially in that you know two 736 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: thousand and eight to maybe twenty and fifteen period when 737 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: there were so many tax foreclosures, we were literally able 738 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 1: to help more than a thousand families purchase and fix 739 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: up formally foreclosed properties. 740 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: Which are a thousand homes now on the tax rolls 741 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: hanging into the city's revenue buys and a thousand families 742 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 2: taking ownership and community a thousand a thousand. 743 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've helped more over our thirty year history. It's 744 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: more than a thousand families have purchased these these foreclosed homes, 745 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: and the vast majority that was in that period right 746 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: after two thousand and eight when there was just so much, 747 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: so much unfortunate inventory, and I just think it was 748 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: really smart in the city's part. You can look at 749 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: it two ways. You can look at these tax foreclosures 750 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: as a liability, and of course they are. The city 751 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: needs to maintain them. They're not bringing in revenue, but 752 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: the City of Milwaukee to a large degree, decided to 753 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: look at it as a significant opportunity to promote home ownership. 754 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: And how often are we going to have this situation 755 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: where our city owns so many homes. If we can 756 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: get a large person manage of those to actually be 757 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: owner occupied instead of being absentee investors, that's a good 758 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,479 Speaker 1: investment in the future stability of our city. 759 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Michael Gosman, 760 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 2: and you don't want to miss part two that's now 761 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 2: available to listen to you together, guys, we can change 762 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 2: this country, but it starts with you. I'll see in 763 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 2: part two.