WEBVTT - Michael McDonald and Paul Reiser 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.676 Pushkin. Michael McDonald's husky baritone is one of the most 0:00:22.716 --> 0:00:26.956 instantly recognizable voices from the seventies and eighties. As a 0:00:26.956 --> 0:00:29.996 member of the Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan and as a 0:00:30.036 --> 0:00:33.716 hit making solo artist, Michael McDonald's career is one for 0:00:33.796 --> 0:00:37.956 the books. Enter Paul Riser, the comedic actor and writer 0:00:38.036 --> 0:00:42.436 behind New York Times bestselling books, popular movies, and TV shows. 0:00:43.236 --> 0:00:45.876 Before the start of the pandemic, Paul met Mike McDonald 0:00:45.876 --> 0:00:49.236 at a party and the two became fast friends. Listening 0:00:49.276 --> 0:00:52.236 to Michael's incredible stories, Paul found himself trying to piece 0:00:52.276 --> 0:00:55.516 together the arc of Michael's career. They began recording their 0:00:55.556 --> 0:00:58.516 conversations and soon they had over six hundred pages of 0:00:58.596 --> 0:01:02.356 stories they eventually turned into the memoir With a Fool Believes. 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:06.196 The book chronicles the highs and lows of Michael's career, 0:01:06.436 --> 0:01:10.396 his struggles with the diction, and his lifelong insecure. On 0:01:10.436 --> 0:01:13.316 today's episode, I talked to Michael McDonald's and Paul Reiser 0:01:13.516 --> 0:01:17.276 about their unlikely work in relationship. Michael also talks about 0:01:17.276 --> 0:01:20.716 why it's proposed Quincy Jones produced solo album never materialized, 0:01:21.156 --> 0:01:23.516 and he remembers the time one of his childhood heroes, 0:01:23.596 --> 0:01:29.836 Ray Charles, chewed him out while wearing a bathrobe. This 0:01:30.036 --> 0:01:33.276 is broken record. Liner notes in the digital age. I'm 0:01:33.396 --> 0:01:38.036 justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Michael McDonald and Paul Reiser. 0:01:39.196 --> 0:01:42.916 I've never done an interview with a musician who's written 0:01:42.916 --> 0:01:45.316 a book along with the author, but it just seemed 0:01:45.316 --> 0:01:48.916 like such a cool pairing that it was impossible to pass. 0:01:48.756 --> 0:01:50.276 Up unlikely pairing. 0:01:50.756 --> 0:01:52.076 Yeah, how did you guys meet? 0:01:52.636 --> 0:01:56.156 Well? I played at a party. I was hired to play, 0:01:56.396 --> 0:02:00.236 you know, just kind of piano and saying my guitar 0:02:00.276 --> 0:02:03.316 player joined me for moral support. And it was at 0:02:03.316 --> 0:02:06.476 a party that happened to be next door to Paul's house. 0:02:07.076 --> 0:02:09.516 And he was at the party and we got to 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:11.836 talking and we realized we had a lot of you know, 0:02:11.996 --> 0:02:16.476 musical interest in common. And he mentioned that he had 0:02:16.476 --> 0:02:19.036 a studio in his house next door and if we 0:02:19.116 --> 0:02:21.156 felt like it, we want to come over and check 0:02:21.196 --> 0:02:23.996 out his studio. And he's got a couple of pianos 0:02:23.996 --> 0:02:26.396 and invited us to come over and kind of jam 0:02:26.436 --> 0:02:29.036 a little bit. So my guitar player friend, Bernie, and 0:02:29.076 --> 0:02:31.796 I went over to Paul's and we kind of sat 0:02:31.876 --> 0:02:35.556 up and we played a few old Beatles songs and 0:02:35.636 --> 0:02:39.076 some old Motown songs and just kind of talked about 0:02:39.556 --> 0:02:41.916 what we liked about those songs, and we found we had, 0:02:42.036 --> 0:02:45.556 you know, real similar interests in music from the sixties. 0:02:45.756 --> 0:02:49.276 And there's a lesson to be learned. Because I didn't 0:02:49.316 --> 0:02:52.076 want to go to this party. I don't really have 0:02:52.196 --> 0:02:53.836 to go to any party. And I walk in and 0:02:53.876 --> 0:02:57.036 I go, oh my, Mike McDonald's playing, Oh my god, listen, 0:02:57.076 --> 0:03:00.076 Oh my god. And I'm not usually this forward, but 0:03:00.116 --> 0:03:01.956 I went over to say hello, and I've been a 0:03:01.956 --> 0:03:04.876 big fan of Michael's for years. And then I kind 0:03:04.876 --> 0:03:06.396 of like, I'm going to roll the dice here I 0:03:06.476 --> 0:03:09.596 go listen, and I literally said, I live eighty feet 0:03:09.636 --> 0:03:12.436 away and I have two pianos. You want to come over? 0:03:12.476 --> 0:03:15.876 And Mike, god bless him, said sure, and there I was, 0:03:15.996 --> 0:03:17.796 and I just was kind of pinching myself. I'll go, 0:03:17.916 --> 0:03:20.476 I'm playing piano with Michael McDonald for no reason on 0:03:20.476 --> 0:03:23.156 a Tuesday night. So we became friends from that, and 0:03:24.276 --> 0:03:26.436 then over the years we would just talk about I 0:03:26.476 --> 0:03:30.316 was always curious about Mike's career and arc because I 0:03:30.356 --> 0:03:34.316 never really had my hands around it, like he's everywhere. 0:03:34.596 --> 0:03:37.356 I can't see the through line, you know. So I 0:03:37.476 --> 0:03:40.876 was as a fan. I would periodically ask Michael questions, 0:03:41.636 --> 0:03:43.756 you know, and he would tell me, explain to me 0:03:43.836 --> 0:03:47.876 about how he got from the Steely Dan to Doobies, 0:03:47.956 --> 0:03:50.676 and I never I never quite made sense. And I 0:03:50.756 --> 0:03:52.596 jokingly said one day, I said, you should write a 0:03:52.636 --> 0:03:55.356 book so I, you know, I wouldn't have to call 0:03:55.396 --> 0:03:58.596 you every time I have a question and do his credit. 0:03:58.636 --> 0:04:00.476 He said, you know, I was thinking about it. He 0:04:00.516 --> 0:04:02.916 wasn't thinking about it, said people have asked me about it. 0:04:03.156 --> 0:04:05.756 He said, I don't know how to do that, And 0:04:05.796 --> 0:04:07.756 it just so happened. This was March of twenty twenty 0:04:07.796 --> 0:04:11.196 in lockdown, and I said, well, you know, I've written 0:04:11.236 --> 0:04:13.516 a couple of books, and let's be honest, we've got 0:04:13.516 --> 0:04:17.356 nothing to do. Nobody's working. So we just started taping 0:04:17.476 --> 0:04:21.396 our conversations and that became the start of the book. 0:04:21.276 --> 0:04:23.316 And over Zoom right, yeah, zoom. 0:04:23.316 --> 0:04:23.796 We did much. 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:25.636 We were not in the same room for like four 0:04:25.756 --> 0:04:27.996 years or so, but it was like a month and 0:04:28.036 --> 0:04:31.156 a half of just sitting on Zoom and chatting. It 0:04:31.196 --> 0:04:33.196 was really easy. It was just because there was no pressure. 0:04:33.196 --> 0:04:36.036 We didn't have nobody bought it, there was no deadline, 0:04:36.036 --> 0:04:38.356 nobody was waiting for this, and we kind of jumped 0:04:38.396 --> 0:04:41.316 into that with, hey, if this turns out to be nothing, 0:04:41.756 --> 0:04:43.716 you know. So we had coffee over Zoom for a 0:04:43.756 --> 0:04:46.356 month and then we put it all together. You know. 0:04:46.356 --> 0:04:49.116 It took all these stories and I would basically just 0:04:49.276 --> 0:04:52.676 literally transcribe Mike's stories exactly as he said, and then 0:04:52.996 --> 0:04:55.636 sort of put it in some rough order, sent it 0:04:55.676 --> 0:04:58.396 over to Michael, and he started just expanding them and 0:04:58.436 --> 0:05:01.356 writing and digging, and we just went back and forth 0:05:01.636 --> 0:05:05.396 and it came out well, I like to think. 0:05:06.196 --> 0:05:08.396 Well, it's only one for you. When he came up 0:05:08.396 --> 0:05:10.236 to me, initially I could see you in his face 0:05:10.276 --> 0:05:13.756 and by his questions that he was thinking he must 0:05:13.796 --> 0:05:17.356 have fallen on really hard times. He's playing birthday parties now, Yeah, 0:05:17.876 --> 0:05:20.116 And I told him, noo, the guy's paying me a fortune. 0:05:19.916 --> 0:05:22.516 As a caliber of Paul's neighborhood. 0:05:23.556 --> 0:05:26.076 But yeah, no, it was great fun. I mean, you know, 0:05:26.916 --> 0:05:29.516 had he not suggested it, you know, and as I 0:05:29.636 --> 0:05:32.076 like to say, how lucky am I? You know, I've 0:05:32.116 --> 0:05:34.756 never written a book first book I write. I write 0:05:34.756 --> 0:05:38.196 with a guy who's you know, written the screenplays, TV shows, 0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:43.716 comic writer, produced movies, acted and everyone he hasn't produced, 0:05:43.756 --> 0:05:45.916 you know. So I was like, this is too good 0:05:45.956 --> 0:05:49.036 to be true. And you know, the only in trepidation 0:05:49.196 --> 0:05:52.516 I had was but once we got started, I started 0:05:52.516 --> 0:05:55.116 to think, Oh my god, what have I agreed to? 0:05:55.276 --> 0:05:55.956 What have I done? 0:05:56.716 --> 0:05:59.356 Because I've got Paul on the hook for this thing, 0:05:59.356 --> 0:06:02.436 and what if it just kind of fizzles out somewhere 0:06:02.436 --> 0:06:04.556 halfway in the middle, you know, it's just not that 0:06:04.756 --> 0:06:08.316 interesting anymore, you know, And like I just pictured myself 0:06:08.316 --> 0:06:11.556 having a thing of things to come up with for 0:06:11.716 --> 0:06:12.756 the next chapter. 0:06:13.116 --> 0:06:15.436 But that was the nice part of truely. I mean, 0:06:15.596 --> 0:06:18.556 almost everything I've ever done has been sort of on spec. 0:06:18.876 --> 0:06:21.876 It's like, let me just go write this and then if, 0:06:22.116 --> 0:06:23.956 you know, if it has interest to somebody, great, But 0:06:24.156 --> 0:06:26.596 I find it's hard to write with a deadline or 0:06:26.596 --> 0:06:29.476 somebody waiting for it. So this really was two guys 0:06:29.556 --> 0:06:31.436 chatting and it was easy. You know. I was asking 0:06:31.516 --> 0:06:34.636 questions that I genuinely wanted to know the answer, and Mike, 0:06:34.756 --> 0:06:37.036 as we just started talking and relaxing, you know, he 0:06:37.036 --> 0:06:39.796 would tell one story and then spin off into another story. 0:06:39.836 --> 0:06:41.596 I go, well, that's really funny, and I don't know 0:06:41.636 --> 0:06:44.556 where it goes, but that'll find a home somewhere. And 0:06:44.596 --> 0:06:47.716 then the last six months eight months have been really 0:06:47.716 --> 0:06:50.596 about editing it down and honing it. And we had 0:06:50.636 --> 0:06:53.116 a great editor who came on board, you know, about 0:06:53.116 --> 0:06:56.596 six eight months ago and gave us some great direction, like, 0:06:56.676 --> 0:06:59.076 you know, maybe thin this out, but expand over here. 0:06:59.156 --> 0:07:01.956 And literally to the last minute, Mike would go, I 0:07:01.996 --> 0:07:03.196 don't know if I ever told you this story. 0:07:03.236 --> 0:07:04.556 I go, no, Jay, that's. 0:07:04.356 --> 0:07:06.836 Great, And then suddenly that would find its way into 0:07:06.876 --> 0:07:07.196 the book. 0:07:07.356 --> 0:07:09.556 Do you worry about that as you're going along. 0:07:09.996 --> 0:07:13.916 We're worried about it right now still as we speak. 0:07:14.276 --> 0:07:15.996 How do you know you've mind everything. 0:07:16.596 --> 0:07:18.756 One of the things for me that I kind of 0:07:18.796 --> 0:07:24.076 felt that the endeavor might have some legs was Paul's 0:07:24.276 --> 0:07:26.636 came to find out later his work ethic as a writer, 0:07:26.796 --> 0:07:29.796 you know, but as a writer and an actor. One 0:07:29.836 --> 0:07:32.956 of the more enduring qualities of Paul is that he's 0:07:32.996 --> 0:07:36.236 genuinely interested in what everybody else is doing or has done, 0:07:36.316 --> 0:07:39.436 or where they came from. Things like that, you know, 0:07:40.036 --> 0:07:43.916 And that was a real motivating factor for me, because 0:07:44.916 --> 0:07:47.116 he would ask me things about you know, before we 0:07:47.156 --> 0:07:49.996 even decided to write the book. It's just in passing 0:07:50.156 --> 0:07:52.836 that he was interested in knowing about Steely, Dan or 0:07:53.316 --> 0:07:56.236 Donald and Walter, and I was all too happy to 0:07:56.916 --> 0:07:59.836 talk about myself and for any opportunity to. You know, 0:08:00.156 --> 0:08:02.356 my wife says, you know, the sound of your own 0:08:02.396 --> 0:08:04.676 voice is the most pleasant thing in their life. 0:08:04.756 --> 0:08:07.116 You know that plays against type though, because you do 0:08:07.196 --> 0:08:09.556 come across as that could vary. I don't think you 0:08:09.556 --> 0:08:12.476 come fro It appears even from the book like you 0:08:12.516 --> 0:08:14.876 call yourself like a more of a band guys. This 0:08:14.916 --> 0:08:16.796 is when you're kind of like you sign the solo 0:08:16.916 --> 0:08:19.596 deal for your record with Warner, and you're kind of like, oh, 0:08:19.596 --> 0:08:20.836 I'm more of a band guy. I don't know if 0:08:20.836 --> 0:08:23.116 I want to and you're kind of having this conundrum 0:08:23.116 --> 0:08:24.676 of like, well, I want to get my best songs 0:08:24.676 --> 0:08:24.956 to the. 0:08:25.396 --> 0:08:27.636 That's one of the sentences in the book that was 0:08:27.676 --> 0:08:30.196 an AHA moment for me, and Mike said it really 0:08:30.276 --> 0:08:33.116 kind of in passing, I went, that's maybe the origin 0:08:33.156 --> 0:08:35.236 point of this book is you go, I have never 0:08:35.356 --> 0:08:37.156 thought of myself as a solo guy. I was a 0:08:37.156 --> 0:08:40.276 guy in a band and went, that really makes sense 0:08:40.276 --> 0:08:42.876 because you have been and everybody's but you've played with 0:08:43.036 --> 0:08:45.956 everybody over the last you know, for fifty years. Yeah. 0:08:46.356 --> 0:08:48.276 But it's funny because a lot of the stuff that 0:08:48.316 --> 0:08:51.556 I was really intrigued about, not only was it hard 0:08:51.556 --> 0:08:53.196 to get Mike to talk about it, but really there 0:08:53.196 --> 0:08:57.036 wasn't even really questions that I could ask, like, you know, 0:08:57.036 --> 0:08:59.236 and I hope I'm not making your self conscious, but 0:08:59.276 --> 0:09:02.756 like Mike's voice is this thing that's like what is that? 0:09:03.236 --> 0:09:05.556 And everybody loves Mike's voice, Like, but how do you 0:09:05.596 --> 0:09:08.556 talk about I would ask him questions and go, I 0:09:08.596 --> 0:09:10.956 don't know, Well, how do you get that sound? That's 0:09:10.956 --> 0:09:13.116 how I say. It's like saying to George Clooney, we 0:09:13.116 --> 0:09:14.796 how'd you get handsome? You know? What do you want? 0:09:15.636 --> 0:09:18.476 It just came like this, So I would find the 0:09:18.516 --> 0:09:21.676 things that I fascinate me still fascinate me. But you know, 0:09:21.836 --> 0:09:24.356 I play piano, so and I watched Mike plays and 0:09:24.356 --> 0:09:27.796 he plays very different style and it's really cool and 0:09:27.876 --> 0:09:30.876 he does things that I can't quite figure out. And 0:09:30.916 --> 0:09:32.836 so a lot of it was I tried to like, 0:09:33.636 --> 0:09:35.556 and some of the stuff we cut it got a 0:09:35.556 --> 0:09:38.756 little too nerdy, like I like, you know, talking about 0:09:38.836 --> 0:09:41.116 you know, octaves and fifths and chords and went, yeah, 0:09:41.116 --> 0:09:43.436 nobody's gonna want to hear that I helped. You know, 0:09:43.636 --> 0:09:46.196 there are parts of the book that I think musicians 0:09:46.276 --> 0:09:50.156 and techno nerds or seventies officionados might really dig into. 0:09:50.556 --> 0:09:52.276 But at the heart of it is the story of 0:09:52.556 --> 0:09:54.396 the guy that I knew, but I didn't really know 0:09:54.476 --> 0:09:57.716 his story. And you know, part of what's so moving 0:09:57.756 --> 0:10:01.636 in this book, I think is, you know, Mike's loving 0:10:01.676 --> 0:10:04.476 relationship with his wife Amy over the years and all 0:10:04.476 --> 0:10:07.596 they've been through, and Mike's journey, the substance abuse and 0:10:07.636 --> 0:10:11.316 Mike's finding his career. As specific as it is to 0:10:11.396 --> 0:10:14.876 Mike McDonald's journey, it really I think resonates with a 0:10:14.916 --> 0:10:17.356 lot of people because everybody's had their own struggles, everybody's 0:10:17.356 --> 0:10:19.876 had their own journey and their own lack of confidence, 0:10:19.956 --> 0:10:22.436 and like, oh, here's this guy who's so successful and 0:10:22.516 --> 0:10:25.996 we all love and look how long it took him 0:10:25.996 --> 0:10:26.636 to figure it out. 0:10:26.716 --> 0:10:29.516 Really, one of the more beautiful things about the book 0:10:29.596 --> 0:10:31.796 is starting out with the early life and just just 0:10:32.196 --> 0:10:35.396 being so open about your lack of confidence, from a 0:10:35.436 --> 0:10:38.036 young age, and that seems to kind of rear up 0:10:38.436 --> 0:10:42.836 throughout your career, the addiction struggles, some of the ups 0:10:42.876 --> 0:10:44.436 and downs you went through with your wife, your wife 0:10:44.516 --> 0:10:47.876 getting sick, your kids. I mean, there's very personal book 0:10:47.916 --> 0:10:49.996 that I feel like, beyond the music stuff which I 0:10:50.036 --> 0:10:52.836 came to it for, there's a lot of great encouragement 0:10:52.916 --> 0:10:54.596 just for life, you know, how to live your life. Well. 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:58.276 I think our hope was that people would see their 0:10:58.316 --> 0:11:01.076 own life and you know, but with the books more 0:11:01.436 --> 0:11:04.996 it's about, you know, specific incidents that music fans might 0:11:05.076 --> 0:11:08.036 sound find interesting, but there's really not enough of that 0:11:08.076 --> 0:11:09.956 to make a book, you know. I think a lot 0:11:09.956 --> 0:11:15.196 of it is also how just random events and seemingly 0:11:15.316 --> 0:11:18.796 unimportant moments in your life really are the things that 0:11:18.916 --> 0:11:21.436 shape you more than the big events. And you know, 0:11:21.836 --> 0:11:23.916 and that a lot of times, some of the worst 0:11:23.916 --> 0:11:27.476 things that happened to us inevitably will almost without fail, 0:11:27.556 --> 0:11:29.276 turn out to be the best things that ever happened 0:11:29.276 --> 0:11:33.356 to us with enough time. But I think so much 0:11:33.356 --> 0:11:35.556 of where we all find ourselves at a certain point 0:11:35.556 --> 0:11:38.276 in our lives would be totally different. But for some 0:11:38.356 --> 0:11:40.196 of the events that we would have rather not had 0:11:40.236 --> 0:11:41.076 to go through. You know. 0:11:41.356 --> 0:11:45.116 Yeah, you know, most any movie, a good movie, a 0:11:45.116 --> 0:11:48.036 good TV show, or a book, you know what hooks you, Well, 0:11:48.036 --> 0:11:50.636 it's the story. It's like, yes, but what really hooks 0:11:50.636 --> 0:11:52.596 you in the story, And if you get to it, 0:11:52.596 --> 0:11:55.996 it's the character. It's the person, and there's an individual. 0:11:56.436 --> 0:11:58.996 And what was I think really comes out in the 0:11:58.996 --> 0:12:01.916 book is like, yeah, there these great stories of rock 0:12:02.076 --> 0:12:05.076 history and Mike's musical journey, but at the heart of 0:12:05.076 --> 0:12:09.076 it is this guy that you know. The reason I asked, 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:11.876 jokingly asked Mike to write a book years ago, was 0:12:12.236 --> 0:12:14.036 I wanted to read it. It's like, I don't have 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:15.796 to be involved. I just who are you? Tell me 0:12:15.836 --> 0:12:19.636 how this happened? And I'm to this day still flattered 0:12:19.676 --> 0:12:22.756 and honored that he, you know, agreed to trust me 0:12:22.796 --> 0:12:24.676 with his story to help him get it out. But 0:12:24.836 --> 0:12:26.956 when you get done with it, what you see is, Oh, 0:12:27.036 --> 0:12:30.276 here's this guy, as you say, who overcame, you know, 0:12:30.316 --> 0:12:33.116 his own challenges and struggles. And I think everybody will 0:12:33.156 --> 0:12:36.396 read that and go, yeah, why do we all make 0:12:36.476 --> 0:12:39.636 life so hard for ourselves? And it should be simpler? 0:12:39.756 --> 0:12:44.436 And it's somehow always inspiring and encouraging to read or 0:12:44.516 --> 0:12:48.116 find out that somebody you admire hasn't necessarily figured it 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:50.076 out yet either. We're all still working at it. 0:12:50.396 --> 0:12:54.156 Yeah, obviously a lot of people write memoirs. But as 0:12:54.156 --> 0:12:57.156 someone who self admittedly is more of a band guy 0:12:57.156 --> 0:13:00.076 than a solo guy, did it feel weird in the 0:13:00.196 --> 0:13:03.396 end to have like your life distilled down to six 0:13:03.436 --> 0:13:06.236 to twelve hour read in three hundred and eighteen pages? 0:13:06.556 --> 0:13:06.916 It did? 0:13:07.036 --> 0:13:09.716 You know? I mean? But I kind of just really 0:13:09.996 --> 0:13:13.036 all the way along the way trusted Paul's I was 0:13:13.356 --> 0:13:15.276 waiting for him to kind of give me the signal 0:13:15.316 --> 0:13:17.676 one way or the other, like let's cut our losses 0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:21.356 and put this on the shelf. But he, you know, 0:13:21.396 --> 0:13:23.596 he kept encouraging me, goes, no, this is good, you know, 0:13:24.036 --> 0:13:27.316 And at times, you know, I'm all too sure. I 0:13:27.316 --> 0:13:31.156 would have never gotten past probably wouldn't got past the preface, 0:13:31.236 --> 0:13:34.476 you know. But just in terms of my capacity as 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:37.436 a writer, I like to write, but I've only written 0:13:37.476 --> 0:13:40.796 like articles and op eds, and I enjoy that. But 0:13:40.916 --> 0:13:44.036 writing a long story and kind of putting the structure 0:13:44.076 --> 0:13:46.436 of that together in advance and a draft and all 0:13:46.476 --> 0:13:48.676 that that was the things that Paul really was so 0:13:48.716 --> 0:13:51.996 helpful with and his along the way. As long as 0:13:51.996 --> 0:13:53.636 he said to me, no, this is good. You know, 0:13:54.196 --> 0:13:56.996 let's keep going. You know, that's all the confidence I 0:13:57.036 --> 0:13:59.516 needed to keep going. You know, I was kind of 0:13:59.516 --> 0:14:01.676 waiting for him to give me the like, you know, 0:14:02.156 --> 0:14:03.316 a little time. 0:14:03.396 --> 0:14:06.116 But again, because there was nobody, there was no commitment. 0:14:06.276 --> 0:14:09.036 This was just you know, like two guys, let's just 0:14:09.156 --> 0:14:12.756 see where this goes. And we always had the freedom 0:14:12.796 --> 0:14:14.716 and I will always say, just write it and we'll 0:14:14.716 --> 0:14:16.396 cut it if you know, if you go, hey, that's 0:14:16.396 --> 0:14:19.076 too personal, just see what happens when you type it out, 0:14:19.196 --> 0:14:21.036 and then we'll cut it. And if you don't like 0:14:21.076 --> 0:14:23.116 what it says, we take it out. There's a real 0:14:23.116 --> 0:14:26.316 freedom in that there's nobody expecting anything or waiting for anything. 0:14:26.556 --> 0:14:28.076 And a lot of times, you know, went both ways. 0:14:28.076 --> 0:14:30.396 A lot of times Mike would say something, there's a 0:14:30.436 --> 0:14:33.036 really funny story, and but you look at it and 0:14:33.036 --> 0:14:35.076 you go, I don't know if that belongs in your book, 0:14:35.076 --> 0:14:36.916 though it's not about you. That that was a funny 0:14:36.916 --> 0:14:38.916 story that happened to your friend in the studio. Great, 0:14:39.356 --> 0:14:41.436 but now let's get back to your story. And then 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:43.636 there are a lot of times he just sort of 0:14:43.876 --> 0:14:47.236 casually say something. I go go back what Ray Charles 0:14:47.356 --> 0:14:49.316 is in his bathrobe and he's yelling if you can 0:14:49.396 --> 0:14:49.756 I hear that? 0:14:49.836 --> 0:14:50.076 Please? 0:14:51.196 --> 0:14:52.516 I'd like to hear that story. 0:14:52.596 --> 0:14:53.916 I mean, that's one of the great things about the 0:14:53.916 --> 0:14:55.676 book too, is like it's so well structured because you know, 0:14:55.716 --> 0:14:57.756 like you understand very early in this book how important 0:14:57.836 --> 0:14:59.756 Racharles Michael McDonald. 0:15:00.956 --> 0:15:01.476 You know, three. 0:15:01.396 --> 0:15:02.716 Quarters through. 0:15:03.996 --> 0:15:05.236 Up he's yelling in. 0:15:05.196 --> 0:15:08.476 A bathrobe, screaming at you for money that you can't 0:15:08.516 --> 0:15:10.596 give to me. Can you tell that story? 0:15:10.596 --> 0:15:11.596 I guess yeah. 0:15:11.716 --> 0:15:11.796 No. 0:15:11.996 --> 0:15:14.316 It was one of the worst moments in my life, 0:15:15.796 --> 0:15:18.276 the thought that Ray was even had agreed to do 0:15:18.356 --> 0:15:21.116 this show. It was a show of which I was 0:15:21.156 --> 0:15:24.036 the honoree. The idea was we were going to raise 0:15:24.116 --> 0:15:27.156 money for NAM, which is a program that tries to 0:15:27.196 --> 0:15:30.796 seek to keep music programs in the public schools alive 0:15:31.516 --> 0:15:36.116 by donating instruments and texts and you know, things like 0:15:36.156 --> 0:15:40.756 that worthy cause it was a worthy, a worthy and 0:15:41.236 --> 0:15:44.716 so my initial thing with everybody was as far as 0:15:44.796 --> 0:15:48.956 any kind of fee for performing, because Yamaha was very 0:15:48.996 --> 0:15:52.036 generous with everybody, and you know, endorsed and sponsored all 0:15:52.076 --> 0:15:55.996 the people at some point, but nobody got paid. Everybody 0:15:55.996 --> 0:15:57.836 agreed that as long as the money is all going 0:15:57.836 --> 0:16:02.156 to charity, and we're all that's the favored nation's idea here, 0:16:02.876 --> 0:16:03.556 we're all good with. 0:16:03.756 --> 0:16:04.676 Everyone needs to respect. 0:16:05.156 --> 0:16:07.956 And apparently Ray had not gotten that memo, you know. 0:16:08.076 --> 0:16:11.796 So when he found out he wasn't getting paid, you 0:16:11.796 --> 0:16:15.476 know it, you know. And I get that because even 0:16:15.476 --> 0:16:17.476 by then, I knew what it was like to be 0:16:17.556 --> 0:16:21.156 in this business. And uh, you know, at the mercy 0:16:21.236 --> 0:16:24.316 of all the powers that be along the way, you know, 0:16:24.996 --> 0:16:26.876 most of the time you're not getting paid, you know. 0:16:27.196 --> 0:16:29.316 But so you like, you're like hours before the show 0:16:29.356 --> 0:16:31.156 and you get summoned to his trailer. 0:16:31.436 --> 0:16:34.396 Yeah, and you know, I go in there. I'm thinking 0:16:34.676 --> 0:16:37.436 the guy, his road manager came to me, and his 0:16:37.516 --> 0:16:40.396 roadmasger was like out of a you know, a Lawn 0:16:40.516 --> 0:16:42.916 Chaney movie or something. He had the cane, you know, 0:16:42.996 --> 0:16:47.236 and he just looked like some kind of a mobster figure, 0:16:47.316 --> 0:16:49.956 you know, And he says, the boss wants to talk 0:16:49.996 --> 0:16:53.156 to you. I go, sure, And I couldn't tell if 0:16:53.156 --> 0:16:57.276 his tone was ominous or not, but I didn't, you know, Sure, 0:16:57.596 --> 0:16:59.756 I went to his trailer and Ray was in there. 0:16:59.796 --> 0:17:05.116 And he uh, kind of a typical race demeanor, was 0:17:05.156 --> 0:17:07.196 you know, he was. He was very nice and he said, 0:17:07.236 --> 0:17:09.476 you know, he was doing to do Hagar because he 0:17:09.516 --> 0:17:13.076 loved that song. And so he starts off. He goes, 0:17:13.316 --> 0:17:16.116 Michael Man, He goes, when did you write? 0:17:16.116 --> 0:17:16.556 He girl? 0:17:16.596 --> 0:17:20.356 I love that song, you know, I said. I said, well, Ray, 0:17:20.396 --> 0:17:23.396 I didn't write Hey girl. I said, it's Carol King 0:17:23.436 --> 0:17:26.676 and Cherry Goffin. And he kind of stopped rocking for 0:17:26.676 --> 0:17:28.956 a minute, and I could tell I was like, you know, 0:17:29.116 --> 0:17:32.596 I had just gone down a few pegs in his radar, 0:17:32.836 --> 0:17:34.876 so you know, I said, but yeah, it's a great song, 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:38.876 isn't it. He goes, yeah, Well, no, no matter. He goes, uh, Man, 0:17:38.916 --> 0:17:41.116 I just got to talk to you. He goes, listen, 0:17:42.636 --> 0:17:45.636 you got to give me something, you know, And I'm right, 0:17:45.756 --> 0:17:47.716 and I kind of knew where he was going, but 0:17:47.796 --> 0:17:51.556 I thought, well, surely, you know, I can explain my 0:17:51.596 --> 0:17:53.996 way out of this, you know, I said, well, Ray, 0:17:53.996 --> 0:17:56.076 I saw you know, at first, I tried to evade 0:17:56.076 --> 0:17:59.316 the whole thing, like what kind of get you? You 0:17:59.316 --> 0:18:00.876 got everything you need here in the dressing room? Is 0:18:00.876 --> 0:18:04.276 this dressing room? Okay? He's like, no, man, he goes, Yeah, 0:18:04.316 --> 0:18:08.556 you got to give me something. He goes, I said, well, ray, I, 0:18:08.796 --> 0:18:10.836 you know we're talking about money. I said, you know, 0:18:10.876 --> 0:18:13.156 I would pay you out of my own pocket. I'd 0:18:13.156 --> 0:18:16.076 be happy to, I said. My only problem is that 0:18:16.636 --> 0:18:18.836 I've kind of put it to everyone, gave everyone my 0:18:18.916 --> 0:18:21.116 word that all the moneys from this thing we're going 0:18:21.156 --> 0:18:24.156 to go to this charity. And if I paid anyone, 0:18:24.276 --> 0:18:26.236 even if I no matter how willing I am to 0:18:26.276 --> 0:18:29.916 do that, I would be breaking my word to everybody else, 0:18:30.036 --> 0:18:31.996 you know, I said, So I'm kind of in a 0:18:32.036 --> 0:18:36.116 weird spot, at which point he kind of his picture 0:18:36.116 --> 0:18:38.796 of his voice went up just a little bit and he, 0:18:39.276 --> 0:18:41.076 you know, kind of let me know and unknown certain 0:18:41.156 --> 0:18:45.316 terms by by way of saying, you know, I'm an 0:18:45.316 --> 0:18:49.476 old man. God damn it. You know, I don't you know, 0:18:49.796 --> 0:18:50.796 I don't play this shit. 0:18:50.876 --> 0:18:52.276 You know, there was a line in the book when 0:18:52.316 --> 0:18:53.996 you said to you, you know, I've made a solemn oath. 0:18:54.036 --> 0:18:55.476 He goes, I don't give a fuck about you. 0:18:55.756 --> 0:18:57.476 I don't give about your solemn oath. 0:18:57.556 --> 0:19:00.956 Yeah, you gotta give me something like oh no. 0:19:00.836 --> 0:19:02.836 And so I was like, my life's passing in front 0:19:02.836 --> 0:19:04.996 of me. And before I was. I'm walking into the trailer, 0:19:05.036 --> 0:19:07.436 I remember thinking, well, if all those guys I played 0:19:07.436 --> 0:19:10.636 with Ferguson could see me now going into meet call 0:19:10.756 --> 0:19:13.716 for Ray Charles now at this point cut to him 0:19:13.956 --> 0:19:16.516 like yelling at me, and Me's sitting there trying to 0:19:16.516 --> 0:19:18.076 figure out am I gonna How am I going to 0:19:18.116 --> 0:19:22.236 get out of this conversation gracefully thinking oh boy, if 0:19:22.316 --> 0:19:24.516 my friends and Ferguson could see me now Ray Charles 0:19:24.596 --> 0:19:25.796 chewing my ass out, you know. 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:28.316 But you know, there was these little sort of like 0:19:28.476 --> 0:19:31.396 sub themes that only emerged after we got all these 0:19:31.436 --> 0:19:34.316 stories together. And like Mike has this you know, really 0:19:35.196 --> 0:19:40.396 wonderful relationship and affection for his dad, and through the 0:19:40.396 --> 0:19:43.836 book the story is about not wanting to disappoint his dad. 0:19:43.916 --> 0:19:46.636 And then we get to Mike had a story with 0:19:46.676 --> 0:19:50.516 Quincy Jones where it kind of didn't go smoothly, and 0:19:50.716 --> 0:19:53.996 Charles and like and suddenly respected you know, yeah, and 0:19:54.036 --> 0:19:56.516 it was like, oh, this all ties together. Like when 0:19:56.516 --> 0:20:00.836 you have this guy in your life that you revere, 0:20:01.356 --> 0:20:03.356 your last thing you want to do is disappoint them. 0:20:03.396 --> 0:20:07.756 It's like, oh, I can see Mike's soul through this book. 0:20:07.836 --> 0:20:12.116 Now, Well, the threat for me was almost every situation 0:20:12.196 --> 0:20:15.636 of responsibility, especially if it dealt with people that I 0:20:15.676 --> 0:20:18.156 you know, was like with in case of Ray and Quincy. 0:20:18.956 --> 0:20:21.076 I was about to work with these guys who I'd 0:20:21.116 --> 0:20:23.476 never dreamed a million years would ever work with me 0:20:23.676 --> 0:20:26.316 or for any reason, you know. And my dad, I 0:20:26.356 --> 0:20:28.716 was always trying to get his respect, you know, and 0:20:28.756 --> 0:20:32.556 I when I suspected all along it if he could 0:20:32.596 --> 0:20:34.956 trade me in for another son, he probably would, you 0:20:34.956 --> 0:20:38.436 know that, you know I mean, but so that theme, 0:20:38.556 --> 0:20:40.636 you know, when I became a patrol boy, you know, 0:20:40.836 --> 0:20:43.076 whenever I got one of those perks as a kid, 0:20:43.156 --> 0:20:46.276 even I would blow it within twenty four hours. I 0:20:46.356 --> 0:20:50.516 got a paper route once and I wound up selling 0:20:50.556 --> 0:20:52.876 everybody yesterday's paper, I believe, or. 0:20:52.796 --> 0:20:54.836 I thought a while that was there. 0:20:54.996 --> 0:20:56.316 I thought this is going to be easy. It's only 0:20:56.396 --> 0:20:58.596 like six or seven papers there. I didn't see the 0:20:58.676 --> 0:21:01.276 gigantic cliole of papers that were tied in you know, 0:21:01.756 --> 0:21:04.876 wire over across the street waiting for me to go 0:21:04.916 --> 0:21:05.636 over and get them. 0:21:05.676 --> 0:21:05.876 You know. 0:21:06.356 --> 0:21:08.756 So I got fired from that job. I caused the 0:21:08.756 --> 0:21:10.996 three our pile up on my first day as a 0:21:11.036 --> 0:21:13.716 patrol boy. That was always the running theme in my 0:21:13.756 --> 0:21:16.036 life was like give Mike the job and watch him 0:21:16.196 --> 0:21:18.076 just crash and burn, you know. 0:21:18.316 --> 0:21:20.276 Yeah, well then for every one of those stories, it's 0:21:20.356 --> 0:21:24.236 like I'm gonna put my whirltzer my Pinto, go drive 0:21:24.316 --> 0:21:27.356 down try out for Steely Dan, a group I really love, 0:21:27.396 --> 0:21:30.396 and it's like tryout turns into the practice. 0:21:30.796 --> 0:21:33.716 Into had come off a long string of auditions I 0:21:33.756 --> 0:21:35.916 failed when I went to that one, you know, and 0:21:36.156 --> 0:21:39.156 and of all the ones I got for some reason, Uh. 0:21:39.236 --> 0:21:40.836 What with auditions you got before that? 0:21:41.196 --> 0:21:43.756 Oh? Just regular you know bands around town that were like, 0:21:44.316 --> 0:21:47.196 we had pretty good gigs, like playing in these what 0:21:47.236 --> 0:21:50.196 were discos back then, before DJs and before all that 0:21:50.916 --> 0:21:55.516 were typically bands who did a lot of funk dance music, 0:21:55.596 --> 0:21:58.436 you know, and people like to dance too, so that 0:21:58.636 --> 0:22:00.796 was what you thought of as a discothech back then. 0:22:01.716 --> 0:22:02.836 There was a playing like. 0:22:04.356 --> 0:22:06.796 Sol Yeah, you know, you go into another band had 0:22:06.836 --> 0:22:10.916 all those tunes and tower Power, you know, the War, 0:22:11.316 --> 0:22:13.876 you know, all all the music that people just you know, 0:22:13.996 --> 0:22:15.956 like to get up and dance to. They weren't there 0:22:15.956 --> 0:22:17.876 to just mingle. They like to dance, you know, And. 0:22:18.156 --> 0:22:19.836 Were those your kind of bands like. 0:22:19.796 --> 0:22:23.236 Well, I had a certain part. We always liked enjoyed 0:22:23.276 --> 0:22:25.196 doing that and growing up, yeah, that's what we were, 0:22:25.276 --> 0:22:27.676 you know, in Saint Louis. We came from that era 0:22:27.796 --> 0:22:31.356 where you know, people just really enjoyed dancing on the weekends, 0:22:31.356 --> 0:22:33.436 and we were the band they could play the stuff 0:22:33.436 --> 0:22:34.476 that they like to dance. 0:22:34.276 --> 0:22:36.956 To, but like to like ev be someone who eventually 0:22:36.996 --> 0:22:39.316 goes and joins seely Dan, which is like a really 0:22:39.516 --> 0:22:42.516 high brow form of music, an incredible form of music. 0:22:42.716 --> 0:22:45.316 You know. I just imagine like playing War, who I 0:22:45.396 --> 0:22:47.076 love by the way, and it's a large band, but 0:22:47.116 --> 0:22:49.756 like that might can imagine they might be beneath like Donald. 0:22:50.676 --> 0:22:52.316 Oh no, they love War too, you know. I mean, 0:22:52.356 --> 0:22:55.156 I know Donald loves War. Donald probably has a more 0:22:55.156 --> 0:22:58.116 eclectic taste of music than even I do. You know, 0:22:58.156 --> 0:23:01.876 he's you know, I was surprised he was so grateful dead. 0:23:01.956 --> 0:23:04.236 I wouldn't have figured him for that at all. I 0:23:04.276 --> 0:23:07.156 didn't know he was oh yeah yeah. And back then, 0:23:07.316 --> 0:23:09.716 you know, I did a lot of gigs, like kind 0:23:09.716 --> 0:23:12.996 of coffee house type gigs with singer songwriters, like I 0:23:13.076 --> 0:23:16.316 played the Smokehouse and Burbank there, you know, and the 0:23:16.356 --> 0:23:18.636 steel drum player. It was like any place that they 0:23:18.676 --> 0:23:20.636 would actually pay us to show up, we would do 0:23:20.716 --> 0:23:23.476 that gig, you know. So but these club gigs were 0:23:23.476 --> 0:23:25.356 a little special because you got paid a little more 0:23:25.876 --> 0:23:27.836 and they were more steady. If you were a good 0:23:28.076 --> 0:23:31.316 house band at a club like that, like the rain 0:23:31.396 --> 0:23:35.316 Tree and Torrents and places like that, you could maybe 0:23:35.356 --> 0:23:38.156 work there for a year, you know, and you would 0:23:38.276 --> 0:23:39.716 have to worry about how you're going to pay your 0:23:39.716 --> 0:23:43.036 phone bill for a little while, you know. But a 0:23:43.076 --> 0:23:47.036 lot of those gigs, I would study and advance the songs. 0:23:47.076 --> 0:23:50.196 I thought they'd get their song list and I'd show 0:23:50.276 --> 0:23:53.076 up and I was like, thanks, but you know, no thanks, 0:23:53.116 --> 0:23:56.036 you know almost got it. If you played a little 0:23:56.036 --> 0:23:58.156 more organ or if you you know'd sing a little 0:23:58.236 --> 0:24:00.876 higher or whatever it was. I would seemingly never get 0:24:00.876 --> 0:24:05.236 the gig. So to walk into this thing and literally 0:24:05.316 --> 0:24:07.916 I didn't know most of their songs. I didn't know. 0:24:08.476 --> 0:24:10.756 I knew the ones I liked that I heard on 0:24:10.796 --> 0:24:14.116 the radio, but so I was literally learning the songs 0:24:14.156 --> 0:24:16.236 on the spot. Donald was teaching them to me. 0:24:16.276 --> 0:24:18.356 And they're not easy songs. 0:24:18.156 --> 0:24:20.796 No, I mean they're not. There's a lot of vocal parts. 0:24:21.516 --> 0:24:23.316 But I was just so desperate to get this gig 0:24:23.356 --> 0:24:25.596 because I loved the band so much. I was I 0:24:25.596 --> 0:24:28.876 think I went into some other mental state that I 0:24:29.036 --> 0:24:32.876 don't normally visit, you know, where I actually my brain 0:24:33.076 --> 0:24:36.356 works at a higher efficiency. And I learned the songs. 0:24:36.396 --> 0:24:39.716 And but three or four hours later, I'm thinking, if 0:24:39.756 --> 0:24:41.676 I got this gig, I don't know, you know, I mean, 0:24:41.836 --> 0:24:44.236 no one's told me to thanks, but no thanks yet, 0:24:44.316 --> 0:24:48.756 you know. And so they I say, say, well, come 0:24:48.756 --> 0:24:51.916 back next day, we'll learn some more stuff. And I 0:24:51.956 --> 0:24:53.916 started to kind of assume that I got the gig, 0:24:53.956 --> 0:24:57.036 and it just it turns out I did. And so 0:24:57.516 --> 0:25:00.276 that first audition turned into a rehearsal, which turned into 0:25:00.756 --> 0:25:03.956 the following week of rehearsal or so, and then we 0:25:04.036 --> 0:25:07.996 left for points beyond in the United States and played 0:25:07.996 --> 0:25:08.836 all around the States. 0:25:09.196 --> 0:25:11.676 That's about as incredible a gig as you can have 0:25:11.756 --> 0:25:12.876 expected to have gotten. 0:25:13.076 --> 0:25:15.476 It was the gig I would It was a dream gig, 0:25:15.556 --> 0:25:19.996 you know. And uh and true to form, Timothy Schmidt 0:25:19.996 --> 0:25:22.116 and I talked about this because we were both kind 0:25:22.156 --> 0:25:24.996 of in that those guys around town who were hoping 0:25:25.036 --> 0:25:28.396 for that gig, a gig like the Eagles or Steee Dan. Yeah, 0:25:28.636 --> 0:25:31.716 come along, daydreams and stuff, you know, and he goes, 0:25:31.756 --> 0:25:33.276 you know, in a minute, you get it, he goes, 0:25:33.316 --> 0:25:36.476 what happens? The band breaks up? You know. A week later. 0:25:40.396 --> 0:25:43.116 After quick Break, we're back with more from Michael McDonald 0:25:43.196 --> 0:25:51.276 and Paul Reiser. We're back with Michael McDonald and Paul Reiser. 0:25:51.836 --> 0:25:54.036 That tour with Steely Dan, I was looking it up. 0:25:54.596 --> 0:25:58.396 You got to play on bills with some other interesting groups, 0:25:58.436 --> 0:26:01.436 and I was just curious how much you remember, like Montrose, 0:26:02.476 --> 0:26:06.716 Sammy Hagar's group, the Beach Boys, the Eagles might have 0:26:06.796 --> 0:26:08.116 been on a gig, a bill on a gig. 0:26:08.156 --> 0:26:09.996 We did one with the Eagle. I think we did 0:26:10.836 --> 0:26:14.716 the thing up in San Francisco on the day on 0:26:14.756 --> 0:26:17.316 the Green. The Eagles, I think he played the day 0:26:17.356 --> 0:26:20.236 before us. We were the headliner the next night. 0:26:20.916 --> 0:26:24.996 So you get two touring stints with Steely Dan, and 0:26:25.036 --> 0:26:29.236 then afterwards you come back to California and the dissolved 0:26:29.316 --> 0:26:32.596 the band. You kind of have like one last run 0:26:32.636 --> 0:26:34.996 in with Walter before that kind of era is over, 0:26:35.036 --> 0:26:36.756 which is he almost gets arrested. 0:26:37.076 --> 0:26:40.956 Looking we both almost got arrested, but we had a 0:26:41.036 --> 0:26:44.116 mutual friend and we were gonna. You know, we both 0:26:44.156 --> 0:26:46.516 like to smoke pot and we like to do the 0:26:46.556 --> 0:26:49.636 occasional blow. But you know, we weren't. You needed one 0:26:49.676 --> 0:26:53.476 of us where two people could really afford a good 0:26:53.516 --> 0:26:55.636 coke hab it, you know. So we came up with 0:26:55.676 --> 0:26:57.956 the idea that we could get a little bit from 0:26:57.996 --> 0:27:00.636 this friend of ours we knew was a dealer, and 0:27:00.836 --> 0:27:02.716 it was so good that we could cut it and 0:27:02.756 --> 0:27:06.156 it would still be better than most stuff that our 0:27:06.156 --> 0:27:10.156 friends might run into on the street. We could just 0:27:10.196 --> 0:27:13.076 sell it to our close friends and. 0:27:12.996 --> 0:27:14.196 Shows you a business model. 0:27:14.316 --> 0:27:15.916 It was our business model, and then we would have 0:27:15.956 --> 0:27:18.996 some leftover to get us through the week. Well, the 0:27:19.156 --> 0:27:21.436 entire amount didn't get us through the night even you know, 0:27:21.516 --> 0:27:23.956 we of course snorted most of it before we ever 0:27:23.956 --> 0:27:27.796 got around to cutting it, and our conversations just got 0:27:27.836 --> 0:27:31.956 sillier and sillier, and that wound up in the LA Police. 0:27:32.276 --> 0:27:34.756 Coming back to this apartment, I was, I was only 0:27:34.796 --> 0:27:38.116 watching this apartment for a friend of mine, and she 0:27:38.196 --> 0:27:39.916 happened to have scales and everything. I thought, well, this 0:27:39.956 --> 0:27:42.076 is a perfect setting for cutting this cocaine. 0:27:42.116 --> 0:27:44.636 And you know makeshift office. 0:27:44.596 --> 0:27:48.036 Yeah, you know, And well, anyway, the whole thing went 0:27:48.076 --> 0:27:52.116 south really quickly and wound up that next morning somewhere 0:27:52.316 --> 0:27:55.836 just before dawn with what seemed like the entire La 0:27:56.276 --> 0:27:59.956 Police County police force, you know, knocking at my door 0:28:00.596 --> 0:28:04.636 with Walter in tow and he had apparently been knocking 0:28:04.676 --> 0:28:07.316 on some windows across the alley because he forgot which 0:28:07.356 --> 0:28:08.516 apartment I lived in, and. 0:28:09.316 --> 0:28:10.876 He was out screaming at for in the morning. 0:28:10.956 --> 0:28:15.316 Yeah Coke, Mike, are you in there? You know? So anyway, 0:28:15.356 --> 0:28:18.156 but re miraculously we did not go to jail. 0:28:18.276 --> 0:28:19.916 And then and then it's like the night ends as 0:28:19.956 --> 0:28:21.796 it's like mundane it's can be. Was you go into 0:28:21.876 --> 0:28:24.916 bed and he's coked out, drinking margarina, that's playing electric 0:28:24.996 --> 0:28:28.156 bass on your acoustic bass on your Yeah. 0:28:28.196 --> 0:28:29.196 Sure, It's like. 0:28:29.356 --> 0:28:30.356 What kind of life is it? 0:28:30.836 --> 0:28:33.836 Yeah? No, it was a typical musician's life at that 0:28:33.876 --> 0:28:36.276 point in time. You know, you know, it seemed like 0:28:36.316 --> 0:28:40.756 all we really thought about back in those days was 0:28:40.596 --> 0:28:43.996 it wasn't about money or managing any money or or 0:28:44.036 --> 0:28:46.956 even you know, making money necessarily. It was just the 0:28:47.036 --> 0:28:49.396 next gig was all we really ever thought about. What 0:28:49.676 --> 0:28:52.196 when's the next gig and what we got to do 0:28:52.236 --> 0:28:52.676 to get there? 0:28:52.756 --> 0:28:55.036 And you know, and and that's sort of a nice 0:28:55.036 --> 0:28:57.996 through line through the whole story from Mike being eight 0:28:58.116 --> 0:29:02.236 years old till today that it's the music. It's not 0:29:02.876 --> 0:29:06.356 you know, it's not any the fancy of couci mas. 0:29:06.396 --> 0:29:08.876 It's not the fame. It's when do I get to 0:29:08.876 --> 0:29:11.116 play who do I get to play with? And what? Gee, 0:29:11.116 --> 0:29:13.156 I had a moment where a song came to me 0:29:13.316 --> 0:29:16.156 or I heard something and it moved me. And you know, 0:29:16.156 --> 0:29:18.716 there's so many moments in the beginning of your career 0:29:18.756 --> 0:29:21.076 which are in the book of you going you know 0:29:21.156 --> 0:29:24.036 it is maybe not what I was cut out for, 0:29:24.196 --> 0:29:26.276 or like, gee, this is not as fun as I 0:29:26.276 --> 0:29:28.596 thought it would be, and maybe I'm gonna There was 0:29:28.636 --> 0:29:30.516 even story, you know, came out to La for his 0:29:30.556 --> 0:29:33.676 big break at eighteen and it blows up and I 0:29:33.836 --> 0:29:36.156 was but you know, back home with the tail between 0:29:36.156 --> 0:29:39.316 his legs, I'm Saint Louis. Yeah, I guess that didn't happen. 0:29:39.556 --> 0:29:43.676 And the story could have ended there, but for this 0:29:43.796 --> 0:29:46.156 phone call and that phone call and suddenly, all right, 0:29:46.236 --> 0:29:49.436 take two, you get another shot at And that's sort 0:29:49.476 --> 0:29:52.196 of the theme. If there's a theme, it's like what 0:29:52.396 --> 0:29:54.276 Mike was saying before like these little moments that are 0:29:54.276 --> 0:29:58.116 accidental turn out to be pivotal and there but for 0:29:58.156 --> 0:30:01.596 the grace of God or anything else, those moments wouldn't happened. 0:30:01.636 --> 0:30:04.556 We wouldn't have had this career and this music that 0:30:04.596 --> 0:30:08.796 we've gotten to enjoy. So you know, I feel successful 0:30:08.796 --> 0:30:10.996 in that what we set out to do. What I 0:30:11.036 --> 0:30:14.236 wanted to know as a selfish fan, was like, I 0:30:14.276 --> 0:30:16.796 want to understand Mike McDonald's life because it doesn't make 0:30:16.836 --> 0:30:18.836 sense to me. Now I do. Now I get it, 0:30:18.916 --> 0:30:21.276 and you read the story and go, okay, So what 0:30:21.356 --> 0:30:23.796 happened because of these boneheaded things that have no reason 0:30:23.796 --> 0:30:25.956 to have ever happened? He got a call to go 0:30:26.196 --> 0:30:29.876 audition for Steely Dan. Why that's how it happened. He 0:30:30.036 --> 0:30:33.156 understands it. Yeah, well, to see it all in one place, 0:30:33.276 --> 0:30:36.276 like okay, And by the way, you know, as much 0:30:36.276 --> 0:30:38.996 as it's hard to get a track of, maybe you 0:30:39.156 --> 0:30:43.476 understand Michael McDonald's arc, Steely Dan itself is hard to grasp. 0:30:43.916 --> 0:30:46.796 Doobie Brothers broke up and reformed seventeen times? So like, 0:30:47.396 --> 0:30:49.236 oh okay, no wonder, I can't keep track. There's a 0:30:49.276 --> 0:30:52.836 lot of moving pieces here, so it helped to understand that. 0:30:53.836 --> 0:30:56.076 And again, I think one of the themes that we 0:30:56.356 --> 0:30:58.756 started to emerge for both of us in the writing 0:30:58.796 --> 0:31:02.436 of it was this is really what happens to everybody. 0:31:02.476 --> 0:31:02.716 You know. 0:31:02.956 --> 0:31:06.236 We all think that we were going to a distinct 0:31:06.276 --> 0:31:08.876 place with our lives, and we make a plan and 0:31:09.676 --> 0:31:12.676 typically never you know, best laid plans, you know, yea, 0:31:12.836 --> 0:31:15.036 and the journey's never over. I mean, my kids are 0:31:15.356 --> 0:31:17.356 you know, they're in their thirties, and once in a 0:31:17.356 --> 0:31:20.356 while they'll confide in me about you know, well, you 0:31:20.436 --> 0:31:22.916 knew what you wanted to do when you were you know, 0:31:22.996 --> 0:31:25.596 half my age, or I just don't know what I 0:31:25.596 --> 0:31:27.996 want to do yet? What what's what do next? 0:31:28.116 --> 0:31:28.596 Or whatever? 0:31:28.676 --> 0:31:33.676 And all those questions that I can unabashedly reassure them 0:31:33.716 --> 0:31:36.876 that you'll be asking yourself those questions when you're seventy five. 0:31:37.076 --> 0:31:39.836 Yeah, in the book, you never seemingly know where you're 0:31:39.876 --> 0:31:40.356 going next. 0:31:40.516 --> 0:31:44.116 No, And and it's almost kind of scary to be 0:31:44.196 --> 0:31:47.036 my age now and still not know where I'm going. 0:31:47.116 --> 0:31:49.236 You know, I look at my life ahead and I 0:31:49.316 --> 0:31:53.316 just well, should I be you know, preparing for this? 0:31:53.396 --> 0:31:56.396 Should I be preparing for that? Should I be just 0:31:56.516 --> 0:31:59.636 forging ahead with my head down and keep swinging. 0:31:59.876 --> 0:32:02.596 Are there things musically that you feel like I need 0:32:02.636 --> 0:32:03.156 to check this. 0:32:03.196 --> 0:32:05.676 Off all over the place? Yeah, all over the map. 0:32:05.756 --> 0:32:07.556 I mean, what are some of those things? Well, one 0:32:07.596 --> 0:32:10.596 of them was just playing organ. I always loved a 0:32:10.596 --> 0:32:12.876 good B three player, and I always you know, and 0:32:12.876 --> 0:32:16.476 that was always my waterloo. I just thought, you know, 0:32:16.516 --> 0:32:18.356 every time I got near a B three, I would 0:32:18.356 --> 0:32:19.876 play it once in a while, you know, on a 0:32:19.916 --> 0:32:22.476 session or something. But I never felt like I knew 0:32:22.516 --> 0:32:23.996 what I was doing, and I always felt like it 0:32:24.036 --> 0:32:26.876 was I was convinced it was an instrument that unless 0:32:26.916 --> 0:32:29.436 somebody put you at it when you were five and 0:32:29.476 --> 0:32:32.156 you couldn't even reach the pedals, you had no business 0:32:32.156 --> 0:32:35.596 playing it because it's a lifetime. It's like accordion. If 0:32:35.636 --> 0:32:38.036 you didn't start playing that when you're a kid's fat 0:32:38.156 --> 0:32:40.356 chance you're going to learn it now, you know. But 0:32:40.796 --> 0:32:43.196 lo and behold later in life, when I went back 0:32:43.236 --> 0:32:44.596 with the Doobies, all of a sudden, I saw the 0:32:44.596 --> 0:32:47.716 opportunity to you know, and when I played with them before, 0:32:47.716 --> 0:32:50.196 I never played organ, you know, I only played keyboards. 0:32:50.396 --> 0:32:54.036 And since you know, the first time, Yeah, so this 0:32:54.076 --> 0:32:55.796 is the first time I've actually played organ with them, 0:32:55.836 --> 0:32:58.436 and I always wanted to on certain songs, but I 0:32:58.516 --> 0:33:01.596 just never trusted myself to be put on stage with 0:33:01.676 --> 0:33:02.116 an organ. 0:33:02.156 --> 0:33:04.356 How different is it? How different is it to play? 0:33:04.516 --> 0:33:07.396 If it's key, It's a different feeling because you don't 0:33:07.476 --> 0:33:09.876 have a sustained pedal, you know, it's one of the things, 0:33:10.036 --> 0:33:12.756 you know, you learn to kind of play more fluidly 0:33:12.836 --> 0:33:15.316 without any kind of sustained pill. 0:33:15.476 --> 0:33:17.596 You're a very rhythmic player, though, so I'd imagine it 0:33:17.596 --> 0:33:19.316 would really suit you. 0:33:19.676 --> 0:33:23.396 In some ways. Yeah, I kind of came to understand 0:33:23.436 --> 0:33:26.076 what I could and couldn't do with organ, you know. 0:33:26.156 --> 0:33:28.756 And every time I got a little inkling of what 0:33:29.276 --> 0:33:32.036 I could maybe make use of this, you know, I 0:33:32.036 --> 0:33:36.196 could bring something to this song on organ, it would 0:33:36.236 --> 0:33:38.116 intrigued me all the more. And so by the time 0:33:38.156 --> 0:33:41.396 the fiftieth anniversary came around, I was convinced that this 0:33:41.556 --> 0:33:44.236 was my shot to you know, get up play a 0:33:44.236 --> 0:33:46.916 little organ, you know. So I do, and I enjoy 0:33:46.996 --> 0:33:49.316 the hell out of it. I really, I've always loved 0:33:49.316 --> 0:33:52.516 the instrument, but it's it's a real learning curve for me, 0:33:52.596 --> 0:33:55.156 and I'm and I find that seventy two, what if 0:33:55.196 --> 0:33:58.116 I got to lose. I'm enjoying that where that might 0:33:58.116 --> 0:34:01.436 have terrified me in my thirties, like the imposter syndrome, 0:34:01.476 --> 0:34:04.116 Like somebody's going to know how little I know about this, 0:34:04.356 --> 0:34:07.196 you know, but I kind of don't care about that now. 0:34:07.236 --> 0:34:10.276 I just want to dive in to it. And some 0:34:10.316 --> 0:34:12.716 of the guys I know who I've always admired them 0:34:12.996 --> 0:34:16.236 for their acumen with B three have been more than 0:34:16.356 --> 0:34:19.076 kind to show me some stuff and kind of help me. 0:34:19.396 --> 0:34:21.396 You know who the guys that are that you look 0:34:21.436 --> 0:34:23.756 up to in that world great organ players. 0:34:23.516 --> 0:34:26.316 Well, Billy Payne's a great organists, Billy Preston was a 0:34:26.316 --> 0:34:29.996 great organist. Pat Coyle who I've played with for years 0:34:30.036 --> 0:34:34.956 as a wonderful B three player. Robbie Robinson who plays 0:34:34.996 --> 0:34:38.156 with Frankie Valley and played over the years with a 0:34:38.156 --> 0:34:41.396 lot of different acts, kind of known for being good 0:34:41.596 --> 0:34:44.356 organ guys, you know, and they've all stepped up to 0:34:44.476 --> 0:34:48.316 kind of help me with my you know, that's so cool. 0:34:48.716 --> 0:34:51.276 One friend of mine, a new friend of mine, Abdul 0:34:51.316 --> 0:34:55.876 Royal is a great organist. You know, a lot of 0:34:55.916 --> 0:34:58.316 the guys that grew up in church, Mark Harris, who 0:34:58.516 --> 0:35:01.636 played on a lot of songs and records with me, 0:35:01.756 --> 0:35:04.876 and you know, they were guys that typically grew up 0:35:04.956 --> 0:35:07.476 in church and learned to play organ in church. And 0:35:07.636 --> 0:35:10.676 it's almost super natural what some of these guys can 0:35:10.716 --> 0:35:13.116 do and how you know easy it is for them 0:35:13.156 --> 0:35:17.756 to just manipulate the organ while they're playing something. It 0:35:17.796 --> 0:35:19.236 would be hard enough for me to just play what 0:35:19.276 --> 0:35:22.956 they're playing, much less be thinking about what drawbars I'm 0:35:22.996 --> 0:35:25.076 going to pull out, right, you know, when I'm going 0:35:25.156 --> 0:35:28.236 to put this button on and that, you know, and 0:35:28.276 --> 0:35:30.316 then they play with their feet too, you know, Yeah, 0:35:30.356 --> 0:35:33.556 And that's a that's an amazing all of it has 0:35:33.596 --> 0:35:37.436 to become instinctual. And I think your best chance at 0:35:37.476 --> 0:35:40.756 that is starting when you're about four, you know. 0:35:40.676 --> 0:35:44.676 Right right when your feet can't touch the right Yeah. 0:35:44.756 --> 0:35:46.916 Can you talk a bit about you get to the 0:35:46.996 --> 0:35:50.236 doobies eventually, and this puts you in the ecosystem of 0:35:50.396 --> 0:35:54.516 Warner Brothers Records, which was a really unique ecosystem in 0:35:54.556 --> 0:35:58.436 the seventies and eighties into the early nineties. It was 0:35:58.836 --> 0:35:59.996 Can you talk about that a little bit. 0:36:00.596 --> 0:36:04.076 What I loved about Warners were the people involved, you know, 0:36:04.436 --> 0:36:09.716 Lenny Warnicker, Russ Titleman, Ted Templeman, Moe Austin. Well, everybody 0:36:09.756 --> 0:36:13.156 was creative. The promotion guys were creative. They they seem 0:36:13.196 --> 0:36:15.156 to know how to market this kind of music that 0:36:16.316 --> 0:36:21.076 wasn't that typically obviously commercial music. It was artists like 0:36:21.116 --> 0:36:24.476 Bonnie Raid, Little Feet. They brought artists to the forefront 0:36:24.516 --> 0:36:28.476 like Ricky Lee, Jones, Van Halen, you know, the DeBie Brothers, 0:36:28.516 --> 0:36:31.356 even you know, although we might have been one of them, 0:36:31.436 --> 0:36:34.356 their more you know, obviously kind of commercial acts. 0:36:34.356 --> 0:36:35.956 You know, all these they had a lot of acts 0:36:35.996 --> 0:36:38.596 that were they didn't sell a lot of records. Yeah, 0:36:38.796 --> 0:36:40.076 they didn't quite care about it, and. 0:36:40.316 --> 0:36:42.756 They would keep those artists on their roster. They you know, 0:36:43.356 --> 0:36:46.676 you know, some of those artists never really gained that 0:36:47.076 --> 0:36:53.916 incredible commercial success, but they flourished under the umbrella an 0:36:54.036 --> 0:36:58.156 artistic kind of nurturing. That Warners and those people in 0:36:58.196 --> 0:37:01.676 the A and R department who are all great producers themselves, 0:37:01.716 --> 0:37:04.516 you know, they these guys weren't just A and R guys. 0:37:04.556 --> 0:37:07.876 They their walls were filled with some of my favorite 0:37:07.916 --> 0:37:10.596 albums of gold record some platinum records. 0:37:10.436 --> 0:37:12.956 A lot of records you made with Ted Templeman. 0:37:12.756 --> 0:37:17.356 Yes, yes, Ted was he was kind of a Svengali 0:37:17.396 --> 0:37:20.436 in the studio really, and we knew we were really lucky, 0:37:20.556 --> 0:37:23.916 especially us, because we were kind of a gangly bunch 0:37:24.836 --> 0:37:28.036 of many different and diverse influences. And it was like 0:37:28.116 --> 0:37:32.636 hurting cats artistically, and Ted did a great job of that, 0:37:32.756 --> 0:37:35.476 you know, and I think we all appreciated his ability 0:37:35.516 --> 0:37:38.436 to do that. It was just a really wonderful place 0:37:38.476 --> 0:37:41.676 to be in this business of music if you were 0:37:41.676 --> 0:37:45.276 a recording artists at that time, you know, And I 0:37:45.316 --> 0:37:47.276 felt like I was in an elite group, you know. 0:37:47.316 --> 0:37:51.236 I mean where else would an artist like Randy Newman flourish, 0:37:51.276 --> 0:37:53.916 you know, because everybody knew him as a songwriter and 0:37:53.956 --> 0:37:56.996 everybody wanted to do his songs, you know. But they 0:37:57.036 --> 0:37:59.476 were the ones who always encouraged him to make his 0:37:59.556 --> 0:38:03.156 own solo records. And with all the success that Bonnie 0:38:03.396 --> 0:38:08.596 had later, it was really after her tenure at Warner Bros. 0:38:08.796 --> 0:38:12.316 But every bit because of the nurse element and the 0:38:12.396 --> 0:38:16.356 love of her artistry that they had for her. I 0:38:16.356 --> 0:38:17.476 think she would tell you that too. 0:38:17.636 --> 0:38:20.196 When she had her success ultimately with with Don was. 0:38:20.196 --> 0:38:22.636 Yeah, yeah. I think the one of the best things 0:38:22.636 --> 0:38:24.756 that about Bonnie's story that I love is when she 0:38:24.836 --> 0:38:28.756 started writing, you know, because I think she even she 0:38:29.076 --> 0:38:31.156 might have been surprised at what a great writer she is. 0:38:31.316 --> 0:38:31.756 Yeah. 0:38:31.876 --> 0:38:35.636 Yeah, she's written some great songs, you know, and some 0:38:35.716 --> 0:38:37.796 of my favorite songs. You know, Nika Time is such 0:38:38.196 --> 0:38:41.836 such a great tune. It's it's almost uncandy that she 0:38:41.916 --> 0:38:43.676 didn't do that earlier in her career. 0:38:43.916 --> 0:38:47.996 Yeah. The artists on Warner where you mentioned some of them, 0:38:48.156 --> 0:38:52.156 there's also Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and Fleetwood. 0:38:51.716 --> 0:38:52.996 Mac Carly Simon. 0:38:53.356 --> 0:38:55.756 Yeah, James Taylor, did you guys feel like a family 0:38:55.796 --> 0:38:58.876 where you did? You know a lot of the other artists, And. 0:38:58.836 --> 0:39:00.636 Well, if I got to meet them at all, it 0:39:00.716 --> 0:39:03.516 was usually in the halls of Warner Brothers or at 0:39:03.516 --> 0:39:07.756 the studio there where we all recorded Amigo Studios. But 0:39:07.876 --> 0:39:09.476 I got to meet James there, and I got to 0:39:09.516 --> 0:39:12.556 meet car McCarley and I wrote a song later it 0:39:12.636 --> 0:39:17.036 was a really significant song in my career. And we 0:39:17.076 --> 0:39:19.316 met when she just dropped by one of our sessions 0:39:19.316 --> 0:39:22.716 because Ted was scheduled to produce an album on her 0:39:23.476 --> 0:39:25.836 and she came by to say hi to him and 0:39:25.876 --> 0:39:29.956 we were recording Keeps You Running. So she liked the song, 0:39:29.996 --> 0:39:32.716 and she decided to record the song on her next record, 0:39:32.876 --> 0:39:36.076 so we played on the track for her and that 0:39:36.156 --> 0:39:39.156 was a thrill, you know, because she was already, you know, 0:39:39.156 --> 0:39:42.676 a huge artist. And James it was like my all 0:39:42.716 --> 0:39:46.396 time fave, you know, I just loved everything he did. 0:39:46.436 --> 0:39:49.716 And Grilla the Gorilla Record was like for me, the 0:39:49.756 --> 0:39:52.396 Holy Grail, you know, I just love that record so much. 0:39:52.836 --> 0:39:55.356 And Carly, eventually you got to co write one of 0:39:55.436 --> 0:39:57.476 your huge hits with her, right like, yeah, we. 0:39:58.116 --> 0:40:02.636 Co wrote you Belong to Me and never spoke a 0:40:02.676 --> 0:40:04.876 word to each other during the whole writing of the song. 0:40:05.196 --> 0:40:08.076 We had a track on it, and I gave the 0:40:08.556 --> 0:40:11.756 cassette of my playing the song at home to Teddy 0:40:11.796 --> 0:40:14.396 and I said, that's the song, and you know, I 0:40:14.556 --> 0:40:16.596 just all I have is that one line, you Belong 0:40:16.636 --> 0:40:18.196 to Me. I don't even know what it means, you know, 0:40:18.716 --> 0:40:21.636 but it's just a playsetter, really, you know, that's kind 0:40:21.636 --> 0:40:25.676 of where the chorus should go. And ted without missing 0:40:25.676 --> 0:40:28.076 a beach, said, you know, you should let Carly Simon 0:40:28.116 --> 0:40:31.116 write the lyric to this, and which just sounded so 0:40:31.236 --> 0:40:35.276 perfectly right to me. I just said, your lips to 0:40:35.316 --> 0:40:38.756 God's ears. Sure, you know, and he sent it off 0:40:38.796 --> 0:40:43.636 to her and she sent this beautifully handwritten lyric back, 0:40:43.756 --> 0:40:46.836 and I wish I still had that handwritten lyric somewhere. 0:40:47.356 --> 0:40:50.276 I keep praying someday I'll open a book and it'll 0:40:50.276 --> 0:40:50.796 fall out. 0:40:51.636 --> 0:40:53.836 But there's one of those happy accidents again, like if 0:40:53.876 --> 0:40:56.716 she had not dropped by the studio that day, so 0:40:56.956 --> 0:40:59.076 that would have happened. Yeah, so there's one of the 0:40:59.076 --> 0:41:00.956 biggest hits in your library. 0:41:02.276 --> 0:41:04.196 After one last quick break, we're back with the rest 0:41:04.236 --> 0:41:11.636 of my conversation with Paul Reiser and Michael McDonald. We're 0:41:11.636 --> 0:41:14.076 back with the rest of my conversation with Paul Riser 0:41:14.316 --> 0:41:18.436 and Michael McDonald. Another happy accident you document well in 0:41:18.436 --> 0:41:23.516 the book, Paul, is what a fool believes when Kenny 0:41:24.116 --> 0:41:26.196 is coming over to your house to do a writing session. 0:41:26.836 --> 0:41:28.276 That's one of Paul's favorite stories. 0:41:28.716 --> 0:41:29.236 Tell that story. 0:41:29.276 --> 0:41:31.836 Oh, there was nothing Mike. You know, Mike is very 0:41:32.476 --> 0:41:34.916 forthcoming about how sometimes have an idea and I'll just 0:41:35.036 --> 0:41:37.916 rattle around for months and years. And he had that 0:41:37.956 --> 0:41:43.836 little so because somebody who was it in the in 0:41:43.876 --> 0:41:47.116 the Doobies that said Kenny once was a cornelius. 0:41:46.596 --> 0:41:50.076 I guess Kenny expressed some interest in writing with me, 0:41:50.196 --> 0:41:54.916 and I asked not Cornelis was Tyrone reporter? And asked 0:41:54.916 --> 0:41:58.276 Tyrone if you would give him me his number? And 0:41:58.356 --> 0:42:01.396 Tyrone passed on the number to me. You know, I 0:42:01.516 --> 0:42:05.076 was so excited, you know, maybe too excited, you know, 0:42:05.156 --> 0:42:07.836 but I called it and we made an appointment to write, 0:42:07.876 --> 0:42:10.716 and Kenny was going to come down for Santa Barbara 0:42:10.836 --> 0:42:14.836 to write with me. And I lived alone at the time. 0:42:14.876 --> 0:42:18.756 In my house was filthy, bachelor filthy, you know, the 0:42:18.796 --> 0:42:22.476 ashtrays full of cigarettes on the piano and stuff, and 0:42:22.676 --> 0:42:27.156 empty beer bottles everywhere and uh cigarettes floating in him 0:42:27.156 --> 0:42:31.556 and god knows who was there. And my sister came 0:42:31.596 --> 0:42:35.236 over mostly to meet Kenny Loggins, but she cleaned my 0:42:35.316 --> 0:42:38.076 house up, you know, frantically cleaning my house before he 0:42:38.116 --> 0:42:41.036 got there. So I met the piano and like sitting 0:42:41.076 --> 0:42:44.156 over there and kind of messing around with some little 0:42:44.236 --> 0:42:47.116 bits and pieces of songs I had, trying to think, well, 0:42:47.156 --> 0:42:49.276 what do I have that I could play for him? 0:42:49.676 --> 0:42:51.836 Maybe something we could be a start for us, you know, 0:42:52.236 --> 0:42:54.556 looking through notebooks and things I might have written down, 0:42:54.596 --> 0:42:54.876 you know. 0:42:54.836 --> 0:42:56.676 But I love that you bounced it off your sister 0:42:56.716 --> 0:42:58.276 and go, I don't know, what do you think it 0:42:58.316 --> 0:43:02.156 is that? And she goes kind of cringees. I go, yeah, 0:43:02.156 --> 0:43:05.436 I don't think I would play that. Yeah, okay, thank 0:43:05.476 --> 0:43:05.956 you sister. 0:43:06.396 --> 0:43:08.436 Yeah, she kind of I think she thought maybe that 0:43:08.556 --> 0:43:10.356 was a little too circusy or something, you know. 0:43:10.876 --> 0:43:14.276 But then the unbelievably good timing of Kenny opens the. 0:43:14.236 --> 0:43:16.556 Door and the doorbell rang at the moment I was 0:43:16.596 --> 0:43:19.036 playing it for her, and she kind of went, I 0:43:19.076 --> 0:43:22.396 don't know about that one. The doorbell rings, you know, 0:43:22.596 --> 0:43:25.076 And I go to the door and there's Kenny and 0:43:25.116 --> 0:43:28.956 he's got his guitar and a bag with note pads 0:43:28.956 --> 0:43:31.116 and you know, he's kind of struggling with all this 0:43:31.156 --> 0:43:33.716 stuff and tape player in his hand. I said, here, game, 0:43:33.836 --> 0:43:35.876 let me let me take your guitar. Said man, I'm 0:43:35.876 --> 0:43:38.036 so glad you could come down. He goes, Before we say 0:43:38.076 --> 0:43:40.636 anything else, he goes, you were just playing something on 0:43:40.636 --> 0:43:44.996 the piano. He goes, is that something new? And I said, oh, yeah. 0:43:45.276 --> 0:43:47.036 The fact I was playing it for my sister just 0:43:47.076 --> 0:43:50.396 hates it. Yeah, because I was thinking about playing it 0:43:50.436 --> 0:43:52.916 for you, you know, because I want to work on 0:43:52.956 --> 0:43:53.556 that first. 0:43:54.076 --> 0:43:57.516 And apparently from the other side of the door. Just 0:43:57.556 --> 0:44:00.076 hearing that had already come up with she had a 0:44:00.156 --> 0:44:03.836 place in his life was like insane, that's yeah, the 0:44:03.836 --> 0:44:05.436 bridge before I answered the door, you. 0:44:05.436 --> 0:44:06.276 Know, insane. 0:44:06.596 --> 0:44:07.236 Yeah. 0:44:07.316 --> 0:44:08.716 How long did it take for that song to come 0:44:08.756 --> 0:44:10.436 together between the two, Well. 0:44:10.276 --> 0:44:13.956 We finished most of it that day. The chorus we 0:44:13.996 --> 0:44:16.596 wrote the next day on the phone. Right, We kind 0:44:16.596 --> 0:44:18.916 of left that day going we got something good here, 0:44:18.956 --> 0:44:22.676 but it really needs that chorus, you know, a chorus 0:44:22.676 --> 0:44:25.436 that really pays off, And we couldn't, for the life 0:44:25.436 --> 0:44:27.196 of us figure out what that was yet. You know, 0:44:27.756 --> 0:44:30.236 we kind of knew where the lyric was going intentionally, 0:44:30.276 --> 0:44:33.996 you know, like two people looking back on a moment 0:44:34.236 --> 0:44:38.876 with two completely different views on what exactly happened, and 0:44:39.116 --> 0:44:42.796 the guy thinking this was this great missed opportunity for 0:44:42.836 --> 0:44:45.916 the love of his life and only assuming that she 0:44:45.996 --> 0:44:48.596 felt the same way. But obviously she did not, you know, 0:44:49.436 --> 0:44:53.436 so he's looking to renew this flame, and she's just 0:44:53.476 --> 0:44:55.276 looking to have dinner with an old friend, you know. 0:44:55.836 --> 0:44:58.716 But we just really couldn't figure out how that would 0:44:59.196 --> 0:45:02.716 culminate into a chorus. But the next day, I don't 0:45:02.716 --> 0:45:05.556 know which one or the other of us thought, Well, 0:45:05.596 --> 0:45:08.716 you know what a fool believes? You know. So I 0:45:08.796 --> 0:45:10.476 was on the piano and we were on the phone. 0:45:10.836 --> 0:45:13.156 Back then you could actually play the piano over the 0:45:13.156 --> 0:45:16.836 phone and be coherent. You know. Nowadays with the iPhones 0:45:16.876 --> 0:45:19.796 you can't do that. But so we came up with 0:45:19.836 --> 0:45:22.276 the chorus chords and the melody. 0:45:21.916 --> 0:45:23.476 And playing back and forth over the phone. 0:45:23.556 --> 0:45:26.396 Yeah, just kind of trading, trading ideas over the phone 0:45:26.436 --> 0:45:27.836 until we came up with the chorus. 0:45:27.876 --> 0:45:29.676 And that was when you said, you know, what a 0:45:29.716 --> 0:45:31.676 full Believes might be a good name for a book. 0:45:33.716 --> 0:45:37.156 That's how prescient he was. Not yet, but in forty years, 0:45:37.196 --> 0:45:38.196 this is going to be a book. 0:45:38.716 --> 0:45:39.596 It's gonna be a book. 0:45:39.676 --> 0:45:41.636 Yeah, the two of you with titles mad about you 0:45:41.676 --> 0:45:44.636 what a full Believe? I mean, you guys are incredible 0:45:44.636 --> 0:45:47.516 at the titles, And there's a point in the book 0:45:47.916 --> 0:45:50.596 and wonner as great as they were, there's a point 0:45:50.596 --> 0:45:53.196 where you put out living on a fault Line and 0:45:53.236 --> 0:45:56.716 it's kind of stretching their imagination of what you guys are, which, 0:45:56.716 --> 0:46:00.716 by the way, that record missed my consciousness completely. It's 0:46:00.716 --> 0:46:01.836 a really good album. 0:46:01.996 --> 0:46:04.476 Well, thank you, and I said, yeah, it wasn't met 0:46:04.516 --> 0:46:07.436 with a lot of enthusiasm and owners or you know, 0:46:07.876 --> 0:46:10.436 by the public or by radio. Really it was kind 0:46:10.436 --> 0:46:13.076 of went under the radar, and I think we were 0:46:13.156 --> 0:46:16.916 kind of going into areas that were, you know, just. 0:46:16.876 --> 0:46:19.236 Not that commercial really like you're made that way. 0:46:20.996 --> 0:46:23.036 Well, you belonged to Me was on that there's a Light. 0:46:23.276 --> 0:46:27.036 You know, yeah, this is some incredible song, but you're 0:46:27.076 --> 0:46:29.076 kind of stretching them and then minute by minute you 0:46:29.116 --> 0:46:32.636 guys write and record that. And it's really the R 0:46:32.676 --> 0:46:36.836 and B promotions team at Warner Brothers that here's something 0:46:37.636 --> 0:46:38.996 and decides we're going to promote this. 0:46:39.276 --> 0:46:42.156 Yeah, well, the head of the R and B promotions 0:46:42.196 --> 0:46:45.236 at the time, which was a whole different ballgame. This 0:46:45.396 --> 0:46:49.156 was like just pre urban kind of music before rap 0:46:49.236 --> 0:46:52.796 came out and everything. The whole complexion of how to 0:46:52.876 --> 0:46:55.876 market R and B music and where you know, what 0:46:55.916 --> 0:46:59.716 that market even was, you know, had changed dramatically and 0:47:00.036 --> 0:47:02.196 obviously for the better. Hip hop is huge. You know, 0:47:02.756 --> 0:47:06.116 back then the R and B department warners once in 0:47:06.156 --> 0:47:07.996 a while caught up. They had some great R and 0:47:08.036 --> 0:47:10.956 B artists, Patty Austin and James Ingram, so they had 0:47:11.196 --> 0:47:14.476 huge success print that Prince. Yeah, but it was a 0:47:14.556 --> 0:47:17.996 changing time, and Ernie Singleton was the head of promotion 0:47:18.076 --> 0:47:20.156 back then, and he was one of those guys that 0:47:20.316 --> 0:47:25.796 kind of understood radio, you know, especially in the black community, 0:47:25.796 --> 0:47:30.636 which was largely radio stations were owned and operated by 0:47:31.356 --> 0:47:33.956 the program director, you know, you know they were they 0:47:33.956 --> 0:47:38.556 were typically black. Yeah, smaller black owned businesses, and the 0:47:38.596 --> 0:47:43.516 guy who owned the radio station was typically the head 0:47:43.636 --> 0:47:47.276 jock and had the airtime. And so if you walked 0:47:47.316 --> 0:47:49.756 in there with an album and he liked it, he'd 0:47:49.756 --> 0:47:51.596 sit you down and play the whole record, you know, 0:47:51.756 --> 0:47:54.996 and that just doesn't happen anymore. You know that those 0:47:55.116 --> 0:47:56.036 days are gone, you know. 0:47:56.516 --> 0:47:58.836 Reading that, though it was interesting, it kind of confirmed something, 0:47:58.876 --> 0:48:00.596 which is that like R and B is such a 0:48:00.796 --> 0:48:02.956 kind of a bullshit title to begin with, but so 0:48:03.076 --> 0:48:05.196 are titles in general. Because I was thinking about it, 0:48:05.236 --> 0:48:09.596 and it's like the AOAR format album oriented rock or 0:48:09.716 --> 0:48:13.396 soft rock or or now yacht rock. It's like, really 0:48:13.476 --> 0:48:16.796 what that was was like it was R and B. Really, 0:48:16.796 --> 0:48:20.036 you guys are playing yeah, but you know, because you 0:48:20.036 --> 0:48:22.556 guys are white guys or your white Tyran's black, I mean, 0:48:22.596 --> 0:48:25.556 you know, but it's like, okay, well, we can't. 0:48:25.756 --> 0:48:27.676 Let me tell you, I would much rather be called 0:48:27.916 --> 0:48:30.556 yacht rock than adult contemporary. 0:48:31.436 --> 0:48:34.756 But why can't like you're a damn R and B singer? Well, 0:48:34.836 --> 0:48:35.436 you know right? 0:48:35.916 --> 0:48:38.676 I always felt that way. I remember when I had 0:48:39.236 --> 0:48:42.236 my own label for a while, very short while, with 0:48:42.356 --> 0:48:45.076 a couple of friends, and we hired independent promotion guys, 0:48:45.356 --> 0:48:47.796 and we had this one guy. He was kind of 0:48:47.796 --> 0:48:50.716 a classic character, really is an independent promotion guy, just 0:48:50.756 --> 0:48:53.516 you know, you know, I would say to look, why 0:48:53.516 --> 0:48:56.196 don't we go to all the formats with this, Oh no, 0:48:56.276 --> 0:48:59.596 you can't do that. No you're not you're not rock. Okay, 0:48:59.756 --> 0:49:02.076 let me just tell you that, right, you know, well, 0:49:02.116 --> 0:49:04.756 you know, but the only real success we had were 0:49:04.836 --> 0:49:07.876 on formats that no one would have ever except the 0:49:07.876 --> 0:49:11.076 one guy in that department, like Erny Singleton, who said 0:49:11.076 --> 0:49:13.316 to me at some point, he goes, you know, I've 0:49:13.356 --> 0:49:15.996 always dug the band. They just would never give us 0:49:16.076 --> 0:49:18.796 the ball. They wouldn't you know. We were the last 0:49:18.836 --> 0:49:20.956 guys they would say, Hey, go out and promote the 0:49:20.956 --> 0:49:22.156 next Doobie Brothers album. 0:49:22.236 --> 0:49:24.156 Yeah, a live bit in a fault line I feel 0:49:24.156 --> 0:49:26.276 like would have done really well in R and B. Yeah, 0:49:26.276 --> 0:49:27.876 if there's stuff on there sounds like earth Wind and 0:49:27.916 --> 0:49:28.996 five we had leading. 0:49:28.876 --> 0:49:31.356 Into those guys. They would have probably brought it to 0:49:31.956 --> 0:49:34.676 gotten some radio play that we never really got with it. 0:49:35.036 --> 0:49:37.516 But you know, that's just hindsight twenty twenty, you know, 0:49:37.636 --> 0:49:42.276 and typically the world needs to categorize everything, just like 0:49:42.316 --> 0:49:45.876 the major labels always needed to tell people what they 0:49:45.916 --> 0:49:48.636 want to hear, you know. Yeah, and that was always 0:49:48.676 --> 0:49:51.556 the thing that was like it was like shooting themselves 0:49:51.556 --> 0:49:53.836 in the foot, you know, but it was in an 0:49:53.836 --> 0:49:56.676 effort to control the market that they wanted to grow. 0:49:57.436 --> 0:50:01.436 Like when the major labels before rock and roll started 0:50:01.476 --> 0:50:05.956 to kind of make us noise, it was the Sinatras 0:50:05.996 --> 0:50:08.396 and you know, and rightfully so the great singers and 0:50:08.676 --> 0:50:11.996 artists the time. The trios were big back then, that 0:50:12.116 --> 0:50:14.756 Cold Trio and a lot of those East Coast trios 0:50:14.796 --> 0:50:17.716 that were fairly popular, you know, but they were the 0:50:17.716 --> 0:50:20.396 ones that were making anything that sounded like pop records. 0:50:20.876 --> 0:50:23.996 The Mills Brothers and you know, nobody else was making 0:50:24.076 --> 0:50:25.916 records for the average guy. 0:50:26.036 --> 0:50:26.236 You know. 0:50:26.716 --> 0:50:29.796 It was either classical records or you know, but the 0:50:29.796 --> 0:50:32.196 big labels didn't want it to grow beyond that because 0:50:32.236 --> 0:50:34.676 they knew they had these guys signed, and we're just 0:50:34.716 --> 0:50:37.716 going to keep selling these guys records. So all these 0:50:37.756 --> 0:50:41.476 little independent labels started popping up because they had the 0:50:41.556 --> 0:50:46.116 Fontella Basses and Chuck Berry's and the Little Richards, and 0:50:46.356 --> 0:50:50.636 you know, they had these crazy phenomenal acts that they 0:50:50.676 --> 0:50:53.516 were catching on like wildfire, and they knew that the 0:50:53.556 --> 0:50:56.396 major labels weren't interested, you know, and all of a sudden, 0:50:56.396 --> 0:50:58.156 the major labels start going, whoa, wait a minute, we're 0:50:58.156 --> 0:51:00.596 missing out on this, so they would buy up all 0:51:00.596 --> 0:51:02.996 the little indies. It's always been that kind of big 0:51:03.396 --> 0:51:06.276 the whale comes along and eats everybody, and then it 0:51:06.316 --> 0:51:09.276 starts to, you know, just kind of fester until some 0:51:09.316 --> 0:51:12.956 other little airwave pops up, like FM radio or you know, 0:51:13.036 --> 0:51:16.156 things like that. Rap came about the same way urban 0:51:16.356 --> 0:51:19.516 music as we know it today started at street level, 0:51:19.676 --> 0:51:22.716 you know, because there wasn't any labels that we're going 0:51:22.796 --> 0:51:25.476 to go out and sign these guys. You know, they 0:51:25.516 --> 0:51:27.836 made their own records and they were having success selling 0:51:27.876 --> 0:51:31.956 those records and getting an airtime with those records. And 0:51:32.196 --> 0:51:34.076 so the major labels have always had to learn that 0:51:34.156 --> 0:51:37.876 lesson over and over again. You can't really just dictate 0:51:37.916 --> 0:51:40.116 what people want to hear you. You have to have 0:51:40.156 --> 0:51:42.436 your ear to the ground so that you even know 0:51:42.476 --> 0:51:43.116 what's going on. 0:51:43.236 --> 0:51:45.156 You know which, right while we're talking about hip hop, 0:51:45.196 --> 0:51:47.276 I gotta thank you for the great war and g 0:51:47.476 --> 0:51:51.156 regulate you you're sampled by Warren g Long Beach legend. 0:51:51.516 --> 0:51:52.516 Oh that's right, he is. 0:51:53.116 --> 0:51:54.236 I got to thank you for Regulate. 0:51:54.396 --> 0:51:57.876 That's that's the version of my kids always liked. They 0:51:57.876 --> 0:51:58.836 didn't like my version. 0:51:58.956 --> 0:52:00.436 I mean, Regulate. Did you play it for me? 0:52:01.396 --> 0:52:02.996 I didn't have to. They are? They knew about it 0:52:02.996 --> 0:52:05.716 before I did. But yeah, you know they they love 0:52:05.796 --> 0:52:09.916 that version of it. And it's learning curve. You know, 0:52:09.996 --> 0:52:13.836 if you're a musician, you never stop learning what's going 0:52:13.876 --> 0:52:17.116 on around you, and you're never stop marveling at how 0:52:17.516 --> 0:52:20.036 You're never listening enough. It's kind of like being grateful. 0:52:20.476 --> 0:52:23.756 You know. You can say I'm grateful, but if you're 0:52:23.796 --> 0:52:26.676 really learning anything about your own life, you realize I'm 0:52:26.676 --> 0:52:27.596 not grateful enough. 0:52:27.796 --> 0:52:27.996 You know. 0:52:28.316 --> 0:52:32.036 Wow, Wow, that's a great, great way of thinking about that. 0:52:32.076 --> 0:52:35.516 Why do you save that for the book? You know, 0:52:35.916 --> 0:52:37.476 I haven't shared this with you, but it's like I 0:52:37.756 --> 0:52:43.156 just hearing Mike's outlook on life. It's like I've learned 0:52:43.156 --> 0:52:48.756 to be more forgiving and more humble and cognizant of 0:52:48.796 --> 0:52:51.636 other people just because of watching how he handles and 0:52:51.676 --> 0:52:54.716 he has handled situations. I go, oh, you know, I 0:52:54.716 --> 0:52:56.716 could be probably a little bit less of an asshole 0:52:56.716 --> 0:52:58.076 if I tried, you know. 0:52:59.516 --> 0:53:04.316 So, you know, I mean, he's being honest the first 0:53:04.356 --> 0:53:07.716 of all. Like I said, he's the most responsible for 0:53:07.756 --> 0:53:11.476 the book even being a book, you know. But I 0:53:11.796 --> 0:53:15.356 it was wonderful because we had like six hundred pages 0:53:15.396 --> 0:53:18.756 of just transcript before we started actually writing the book. 0:53:19.516 --> 0:53:21.076 Maybe not that much, but we had a lot of 0:53:21.076 --> 0:53:21.836 clubs pages. 0:53:22.316 --> 0:53:24.716 Did you have to do much extra curricular work outside 0:53:24.716 --> 0:53:26.676 of the interviews with Michael just to sort. 0:53:26.436 --> 0:53:28.196 Of the laziest guy that way? 0:53:28.436 --> 0:53:33.036 No, no, no, he did a lot, and and really for me, 0:53:33.356 --> 0:53:35.956 that was the real education for me was to see 0:53:36.396 --> 0:53:39.876 Paul's genuine interest in other people. I think it has 0:53:39.876 --> 0:53:41.276 a lot to do with what he does for a 0:53:41.276 --> 0:53:43.916 living too, being an actor and a writer, you know, 0:53:44.316 --> 0:53:49.196 but his acumen or his capacity to build a story 0:53:49.356 --> 0:53:52.156 was really what I benefited from so much. You know, 0:53:53.236 --> 0:53:58.756 he saw threads and interesting points of reference in the 0:53:58.836 --> 0:54:02.076 stories like a writer would, like a professional writer would, 0:54:02.276 --> 0:54:05.396 and it was a revelation to me in many cases, 0:54:05.436 --> 0:54:06.476 you know, you know, but. 0:54:06.476 --> 0:54:08.756 Just hearing the stories and then put looking at them 0:54:08.756 --> 0:54:12.716 all together, which is not something any of us do regularly, right, 0:54:12.756 --> 0:54:15.156 We don't recite our life. We don't look for necessarily 0:54:15.196 --> 0:54:17.236 for themes. But when you see it in the stack 0:54:17.236 --> 0:54:20.516 of pages, you go, huh, this is a similar you know. 0:54:20.716 --> 0:54:24.316 There's a funny story Mike first band, the first job 0:54:24.316 --> 0:54:27.396 they ever had, playing for the women's pta group, and 0:54:27.476 --> 0:54:30.436 they play their five songs and the priest comes up 0:54:30.436 --> 0:54:32.556 and goes, oh, thank you boys, that was lovely. And Michael, no, 0:54:32.596 --> 0:54:35.156 we have a whole other set and his answer is 0:54:35.516 --> 0:54:38.196 that won't be necessary. I thought, well, that's the greatest 0:54:38.196 --> 0:54:40.956 first review. Whatever dear won't be needed here. 0:54:40.876 --> 0:54:41.276 Thank you. 0:54:41.516 --> 0:54:42.996 But then as the story went on, there were like 0:54:42.996 --> 0:54:46.196 three other stories. They're like that kept coming back. You know, 0:54:46.276 --> 0:54:48.516 we've all had that place where like you're not really 0:54:48.556 --> 0:54:51.356 wanted here, which you know, we get Every actor and 0:54:51.476 --> 0:54:54.556 musician gets more than their share of everything that I 0:54:54.636 --> 0:54:57.596 had hoped the book would do has done. It makes 0:54:57.636 --> 0:55:00.556 sense of this connects the dots and we see the stories, 0:55:00.876 --> 0:55:03.796 the arc of how the five year old kid who 0:55:03.796 --> 0:55:06.316 sang in a saloon with his dad becomes the Michael 0:55:06.396 --> 0:55:07.276 McDonald of today. 0:55:08.196 --> 0:55:13.156 To see that that random things and seemingly unimportant moments 0:55:13.956 --> 0:55:17.716 sometimes become the things that shape us the most, you know, 0:55:18.636 --> 0:55:22.076 more than any plans we have or great designs. 0:55:21.756 --> 0:55:23.996 Like me going to that party where you were playing pianos. 0:55:25.036 --> 0:55:25.996 I didn't see that coming. 0:55:26.356 --> 0:55:30.156 No, in my life as a as a script was 0:55:30.516 --> 0:55:33.276 certainly not one that I wrote. You. Yeah, and I think, 0:55:33.516 --> 0:55:35.876 but I think for most people that's not uncommon. 0:55:35.996 --> 0:55:38.476 Was it frustrating to see your life to see it written? 0:55:38.476 --> 0:55:41.876 Did anything feel avoidable that happened? 0:55:42.276 --> 0:55:44.556 I don't really think in those terms anymore, you know, 0:55:44.676 --> 0:55:48.116 Like I used to regret, have a lot of regrets, 0:55:48.516 --> 0:55:52.756 you know, And certainly there are some things I wish 0:55:52.996 --> 0:55:55.996 I could read live and redo and you know, wish 0:55:56.076 --> 0:55:58.796 I never had done or whatever that may or may 0:55:58.836 --> 0:56:02.236 not be in the book. But I've come to reconcile 0:56:02.316 --> 0:56:06.756 with myself the fact that what I know about myself 0:56:06.796 --> 0:56:10.596 and my life and for better or ward, is all 0:56:10.636 --> 0:56:13.956 a product of every one of those things that happened, 0:56:14.836 --> 0:56:17.076 and that some of the worst things trying out to 0:56:17.116 --> 0:56:18.796 be the best things that ever happened to me. You 0:56:18.796 --> 0:56:22.036 hear people all the time go, you know, prison changed 0:56:22.036 --> 0:56:24.356 my life for the better. You know, I'm grateful that 0:56:24.396 --> 0:56:26.596 I went to prison. I'm sure they weren't at the time, 0:56:26.756 --> 0:56:30.636 you know, but in hindsight you see things differently, you know, 0:56:30.756 --> 0:56:33.516 And in many ways, this book for me was that 0:56:33.636 --> 0:56:36.156 kind of revelation of looking back and realizing that some 0:56:36.236 --> 0:56:38.356 of the people I resented the most that I really 0:56:38.436 --> 0:56:43.716 felt righteous, you know, resentment for who I felt took 0:56:43.716 --> 0:56:46.036 advantage of me or whatever in some way or another. 0:56:46.796 --> 0:56:48.956 With a little bit of time and space, I realized 0:56:48.956 --> 0:56:52.756 that those really are actually the very people that, without 0:56:52.796 --> 0:56:56.836 whom I would probably still be back in Missouri, you know, 0:56:57.676 --> 0:56:59.636 lived out my life in Missouri. They were the people 0:56:59.676 --> 0:57:02.476 that got me to California. They were the people that 0:57:03.196 --> 0:57:05.676 allowed me to walk through the door I walked through 0:57:05.716 --> 0:57:08.316 with them with her, and I felt I had every 0:57:08.356 --> 0:57:11.396 reason to be agree with them over something to do 0:57:11.476 --> 0:57:16.036 with our relationship, but more importantly, the opportunity they gave 0:57:16.116 --> 0:57:19.236 me just by way of you know, not saying any 0:57:19.276 --> 0:57:22.236 you know, get rid of this guy. You know, they 0:57:22.316 --> 0:57:24.556 did more for me than they ever did to me. 0:57:24.636 --> 0:57:27.596 You know, yeah, yeah, Paul In the acknowledgments, you mentioned 0:57:27.596 --> 0:57:31.436 that your son helped transcribe the interviews. Yeah, how was 0:57:31.476 --> 0:57:34.356 it working with your son on Michael's project in particular? 0:57:34.556 --> 0:57:36.676 Well, it was you know, it was COVID and he 0:57:36.836 --> 0:57:39.796 locked down and I said, you need something to do. 0:57:40.236 --> 0:57:41.876 I'm going to give you a job, and I'm going 0:57:41.916 --> 0:57:44.636 to give you a child labor's wages. I said, you 0:57:44.676 --> 0:57:46.996 take this, but you got to type it out. So 0:57:47.076 --> 0:57:50.036 subconsciously I think, I want, like, do you understand who 0:57:50.076 --> 0:57:52.836 Michael is? Do you understand who he's played with? And 0:57:52.916 --> 0:57:56.876 so I was sort of subliminally leaving crumbs for him 0:57:56.916 --> 0:57:58.996 to learn about. I didn't know James Taylor or I 0:57:58.996 --> 0:58:01.676 didn't know Bonny. I remember one of the transcripts, whether 0:58:01.676 --> 0:58:04.316 by accident or not, he misspelled John Lennon's name, and 0:58:04.356 --> 0:58:07.636 I went, listen, you can't be my son and misspelled 0:58:07.676 --> 0:58:10.716 John Lennon. That can't happen, or like there would be 0:58:10.756 --> 0:58:15.196 Coldport or somebody or or or Stephen Sondheim and watching 0:58:15.236 --> 0:58:18.236 him try and spell that, I'm going, Yeah, learned. Some 0:58:18.316 --> 0:58:20.596 words are some big words you should learn. 0:58:21.116 --> 0:58:23.836 Maybe your kid write about some artists from the seventies. 0:58:23.836 --> 0:58:26.476 That's child abuse. I think, yeah, sure, but. 0:58:26.476 --> 0:58:28.956 You know those stories too, you know I was. I 0:58:29.076 --> 0:58:32.476 was tickled, and I knew other people would be too. 0:58:32.796 --> 0:58:35.476 When Mike shared his stories about how his kids are 0:58:35.516 --> 0:58:38.636 not impressed with his celebrity or his music, like you 0:58:38.676 --> 0:58:40.796 know you I've heard that so many times with so 0:58:40.796 --> 0:58:44.236 many other Springsteen talking about his kids maybe no two 0:58:44.276 --> 0:58:46.956 of his songs and how can that be? It's like, 0:58:46.956 --> 0:58:49.076 because they're your kids and they just don't give a shit, 0:58:49.396 --> 0:58:52.956 because that's just so. I found that very heartwarming and 0:58:53.076 --> 0:58:53.796 u comforting. 0:58:54.516 --> 0:58:57.596 You referenced earlier, Paul, before I started recording that We 0:58:57.636 --> 0:58:59.916 Are the World documentary that just came on our Netflix. 0:59:00.156 --> 0:59:01.876 It would have been incredible if you were on. I 0:59:01.876 --> 0:59:04.196 mean it was a great tune as it was, but 0:59:04.356 --> 0:59:06.476 your voice on that would have been amazing, taking it 0:59:06.516 --> 0:59:09.476 another notch up. And as I was reading the book 0:59:10.036 --> 0:59:12.396 and Quincy was supposed to do produce your second solo 0:59:12.476 --> 0:59:16.636 album and then there was a misunderstanding that ultimately resolved 0:59:16.676 --> 0:59:18.796 or whatnot. But is that kind of why you weren't 0:59:18.796 --> 0:59:20.556 a part of that or do you not even know? 0:59:20.356 --> 0:59:22.556 You No, I think there was just you know, you 0:59:22.556 --> 0:59:24.756 can only have so many people doing something like that. 0:59:24.756 --> 0:59:26.276 I mean, it was huge as it was, you know, 0:59:27.036 --> 0:59:28.916 but I think, yeah, it was one of those moments 0:59:28.956 --> 0:59:31.756 where Quincy made the whole music business look good, you know, 0:59:32.316 --> 0:59:35.156 and Michael too, you know. They it was a very 0:59:35.196 --> 0:59:37.956 noble thing that they did, you know. Yeah, not that 0:59:37.996 --> 0:59:40.196 I didn't sit around wondering why I wasn't called either, 0:59:40.236 --> 0:59:43.596 but I you know, yeah, oh sure, yeah, me and 0:59:43.636 --> 0:59:45.916 a few other people were gosh, we did get the 0:59:45.916 --> 0:59:46.636 call on that one. 0:59:46.676 --> 0:59:46.836 You know. 0:59:47.236 --> 0:59:48.756 Do you remember hearing about it at the time. 0:59:49.116 --> 0:59:51.076 No, I think I just saw it, you know, when 0:59:51.076 --> 0:59:52.076 it came out on MTV. 0:59:52.236 --> 0:59:54.956 But it was great, a missed opportunity that you wanted. 0:59:54.956 --> 0:59:57.636 I never knew for us. The other think wheal and 0:59:57.716 --> 1:00:00.876 Jennings walking out, I never knew because and begin I go, gee, 1:00:00.876 --> 1:00:02.316 I don't remember him being in there. It's like he 1:00:02.436 --> 1:00:04.996 wasn't because was it Lionel or Stevie wonder who. 1:00:04.956 --> 1:00:07.556 TV wants to say, let's throw some putting some I. 1:00:07.516 --> 1:00:09.516 Don't even know it was real SWAHELI or just it's 1:00:09.516 --> 1:00:14.036 why he sounding, you know, oh really? And and Whalen 1:00:14.116 --> 1:00:16.756 Jenner's walk down goes yeah, no. 1:00:16.516 --> 1:00:18.316 Good old no, good old boy everything. That's why he 1:00:18.556 --> 1:00:19.076 good old boy. 1:00:19.116 --> 1:00:21.596 Canna be saying why because he's. 1:00:21.476 --> 1:00:23.196 Wearing like a ten gallon hot or you know, a 1:00:23.236 --> 1:00:25.996 big cowboy hat and you see him walking down off 1:00:26.036 --> 1:00:28.316 the bleachers and at some point you just see a cowboy. 1:00:29.516 --> 1:00:31.316 Oh my god, and he's gone. 1:00:31.516 --> 1:00:35.356 But you know what, to to Quincy's credit, like, oh, 1:00:35.396 --> 1:00:37.876 that Willie Nelson was on it was genius. It's like 1:00:37.956 --> 1:00:38.796 and perfect. 1:00:38.996 --> 1:00:40.836 I would have loved to have heard and I would 1:00:40.836 --> 1:00:44.596 have loved to have heard Michael quincy solo album. I 1:00:44.596 --> 1:00:46.236 couldn't believe that was in the when I read that. 1:00:46.356 --> 1:00:49.076 It was, yeah, that was in the cards. 1:00:49.116 --> 1:00:51.116 Yeah, well, no, I know I was. I guess I 1:00:51.356 --> 1:00:53.236 only have myself to blame on that one. I I 1:00:53.276 --> 1:00:57.196 think it was just a bunch of miscommunication, and uh, 1:00:58.116 --> 1:01:00.076 you know, I always felt like it was a missed 1:01:00.116 --> 1:01:01.476 up tune. I would have loved to have done that 1:01:01.556 --> 1:01:03.716 record with Quincy and and Bruce Swudine. 1:01:04.076 --> 1:01:05.396 Yeah yeah, Bruce too. 1:01:05.436 --> 1:01:07.396 But I'm grateful for the chance I did get to 1:01:07.436 --> 1:01:11.676 record with Quincy. It was amazing and Bruce because they 1:01:11.716 --> 1:01:14.876 were such a team, you know, and Quincy was, you know, 1:01:14.916 --> 1:01:17.236 really the genius behind the music part of it all. 1:01:17.316 --> 1:01:20.356 But what was amazing, was they never wasted any time 1:01:20.436 --> 1:01:22.436 getting right to the heart of the matter. You know, 1:01:23.156 --> 1:01:25.036 I was so in the seventies. I was so used 1:01:25.036 --> 1:01:27.076 to doing these dates where they'd sit there and hit 1:01:27.116 --> 1:01:30.756 the snare drum for like literally three hours. So by 1:01:30.796 --> 1:01:32.596 the time they got the sound they wanted, they would 1:01:32.636 --> 1:01:35.076 have to change the head anyway from hitting it for 1:01:35.076 --> 1:01:38.756 two hours. But it was just like sessions just took 1:01:38.796 --> 1:01:42.156 forever to get started, and you know, nobody seemed to 1:01:42.276 --> 1:01:45.676 quite know where the mojo was. And you know, with 1:01:45.796 --> 1:01:48.236 Quincy and Bruce, it was like, I picked this mic 1:01:48.316 --> 1:01:50.116 for you. I've never met you in my life, but 1:01:50.156 --> 1:01:52.156 I picked this mic for you. I've heard your voice. 1:01:52.516 --> 1:01:54.196 I kind of know what you need to sing into, 1:01:54.276 --> 1:01:56.676 you know, And he was dead on, you know, I 1:01:56.716 --> 1:01:58.196 got one other one. I'm gonna try it now that 1:01:58.516 --> 1:02:01.516 that was the right one, and you know, and Quincy 1:02:01.636 --> 1:02:04.036 was like, you know, from the musical aspect of it, 1:02:04.076 --> 1:02:07.316 was like he knew exactly where this should go before 1:02:07.356 --> 1:02:10.716 we played a note. You know. It was just, you know, 1:02:11.036 --> 1:02:14.796 really an education to work with those guys. They they 1:02:14.876 --> 1:02:17.476 to me kind of encapsulated that I walk in the 1:02:17.476 --> 1:02:20.116 studio because I know why I'm here. I don't walk 1:02:20.156 --> 1:02:22.396 in the studio and wonder who's going to give me 1:02:22.836 --> 1:02:24.836 the idea of where we're going here? You know. It's 1:02:25.636 --> 1:02:26.996 and I used to work for a lot of producers 1:02:27.036 --> 1:02:29.156 who were like that was like they thought that I 1:02:29.236 --> 1:02:31.956 was gonna you know, I would come up with the 1:02:31.996 --> 1:02:33.916 background parts that they wanted to hear where they weren't 1:02:33.956 --> 1:02:36.116 they sure what that was yet, because they were kind 1:02:36.116 --> 1:02:38.476 of relying on me to, you know, come up with 1:02:38.516 --> 1:02:41.316 it or something. And you know, that was another thread 1:02:41.316 --> 1:02:45.756 in my whole story, was that dysfunctional defect that I 1:02:45.836 --> 1:02:49.516 was famous for letting someone else do what I knew 1:02:49.556 --> 1:02:52.836 I should be doing myself and then being pissed off 1:02:52.836 --> 1:02:55.316 at them for not doing it right later, you know. 1:02:55.356 --> 1:02:58.116 I mean that was my m O, you know, for 1:02:58.196 --> 1:03:00.916 many years, and probably still is. But I you know, 1:03:00.916 --> 1:03:03.596 I try to catch myself in the act at this age, 1:03:03.596 --> 1:03:05.516 you know, because life's too short. You know. 1:03:05.876 --> 1:03:07.956 Well, I'm still I'm just really grateful for the honesty. 1:03:07.956 --> 1:03:10.836 I mean, it's I mean, thank you for incredible stuff 1:03:10.836 --> 1:03:11.596 and talking to us. 1:03:11.796 --> 1:03:12.596 Glad you enjoyed it. 1:03:12.876 --> 1:03:17.916 H thank you, Thank you man. Thanks to Michael McDonald 1:03:17.996 --> 1:03:20.756 and Paul Riser. For talking about the process behind writing 1:03:20.796 --> 1:03:23.396 their book, What a Fool Believes. You can hear a 1:03:23.396 --> 1:03:25.836 list of all of our favorite songs featuring Michael McDonald 1:03:25.876 --> 1:03:29.836 on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe 1:03:29.836 --> 1:03:32.436 to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken 1:03:32.436 --> 1:03:35.276 Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. 1:03:36.396 --> 1:03:39.556 You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken 1:03:39.596 --> 1:03:42.676 Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing 1:03:42.716 --> 1:03:45.996 help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is 1:03:46.036 --> 1:03:50.276 Ben Tollinday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 1:03:50.676 --> 1:03:53.476 If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 1:03:53.516 --> 1:03:57.876 subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 1:03:57.956 --> 1:04:00.756 that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 1:04:00.876 --> 1:04:04.156 ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 1:04:04.196 --> 1:04:08.156 podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember 1:04:08.196 --> 1:04:10.636 to share rate from view us on your podcast. Apt 1:04:11.036 --> 1:04:13.796 are the Music's by any Beats. I'm justin Richmond.