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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Michael McDonald's husky baritone is one of the most

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Speaker 1: instantly recognizable voices from the seventies and eighties. As a

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Speaker 1: member of the Doobie Brothers, Steely Dan and as a

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Speaker 1: hit making solo artist, Michael McDonald's career is one for

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Speaker 1: the books. Enter Paul Riser, the comedic actor and writer

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Speaker 1: behind New York Times bestselling books, popular movies, and TV shows.

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Speaker 1: Before the start of the pandemic, Paul met Mike McDonald

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Speaker 1: at a party and the two became fast friends. Listening

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Speaker 1: to Michael's incredible stories, Paul found himself trying to piece

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Speaker 1: together the arc of Michael's career. They began recording their

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Speaker 1: conversations and soon they had over six hundred pages of

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Speaker 1: stories they eventually turned into the memoir With a Fool Believes.

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Speaker 1: The book chronicles the highs and lows of Michael's career,

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Speaker 1: his struggles with the diction, and his lifelong insecure. On

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Speaker 1: today's episode, I talked to Michael McDonald's and Paul Reiser

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Speaker 1: about their unlikely work in relationship. Michael also talks about

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Speaker 1: why it's proposed Quincy Jones produced solo album never materialized,

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Speaker 1: and he remembers the time one of his childhood heroes,

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Speaker 1: Ray Charles, chewed him out while wearing a bathrobe. This

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Speaker 1: is broken record. Liner notes in the digital age. I'm

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Speaker 1: justin Mitchman. Here's my conversation with Michael McDonald and Paul Reiser.

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Speaker 1: I've never done an interview with a musician who's written

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Speaker 1: a book along with the author, but it just seemed

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Speaker 1: like such a cool pairing that it was impossible to pass.

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Speaker 2: Up unlikely pairing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you guys meet?

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Speaker 2: Well? I played at a party. I was hired to play,

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Speaker 2: you know, just kind of piano and saying my guitar

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Speaker 2: player joined me for moral support. And it was at

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Speaker 2: a party that happened to be next door to Paul's house.

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Speaker 2: And he was at the party and we got to

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Speaker 2: talking and we realized we had a lot of you know,

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Speaker 2: musical interest in common. And he mentioned that he had

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Speaker 2: a studio in his house next door and if we

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Speaker 2: felt like it, we want to come over and check

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Speaker 2: out his studio. And he's got a couple of pianos

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Speaker 2: and invited us to come over and kind of jam

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Speaker 2: a little bit. So my guitar player friend, Bernie, and

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Speaker 2: I went over to Paul's and we kind of sat

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Speaker 2: up and we played a few old Beatles songs and

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Speaker 2: some old Motown songs and just kind of talked about

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Speaker 2: what we liked about those songs, and we found we had,

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Speaker 2: you know, real similar interests in music from the sixties.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lesson to be learned. Because I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to go to this party. I don't really have

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Speaker 3: to go to any party. And I walk in and

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Speaker 3: I go, oh my, Mike McDonald's playing, Oh my god, listen,

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. And I'm not usually this forward, but

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Speaker 3: I went over to say hello, and I've been a

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Speaker 3: big fan of Michael's for years. And then I kind

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Speaker 3: of like, I'm going to roll the dice here I

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Speaker 3: go listen, and I literally said, I live eighty feet

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Speaker 3: away and I have two pianos. You want to come over?

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Speaker 3: And Mike, god bless him, said sure, and there I was,

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Speaker 3: and I just was kind of pinching myself. I'll go,

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Speaker 3: I'm playing piano with Michael McDonald for no reason on

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Speaker 3: a Tuesday night. So we became friends from that, and

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Speaker 3: then over the years we would just talk about I

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Speaker 3: was always curious about Mike's career and arc because I

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Speaker 3: never really had my hands around it, like he's everywhere.

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Speaker 3: I can't see the through line, you know. So I

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Speaker 3: was as a fan. I would periodically ask Michael questions,

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Speaker 3: you know, and he would tell me, explain to me

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Speaker 3: about how he got from the Steely Dan to Doobies,

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Speaker 3: and I never I never quite made sense. And I

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Speaker 3: jokingly said one day, I said, you should write a

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Speaker 3: book so I, you know, I wouldn't have to call

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Speaker 3: you every time I have a question and do his credit.

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Speaker 3: He said, you know, I was thinking about it. He

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Speaker 3: wasn't thinking about it, said people have asked me about it.

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Speaker 3: He said, I don't know how to do that, And

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Speaker 3: it just so happened. This was March of twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: in lockdown, and I said, well, you know, I've written

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Speaker 3: a couple of books, and let's be honest, we've got

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Speaker 3: nothing to do. Nobody's working. So we just started taping

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Speaker 3: our conversations and that became the start of the book.

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Speaker 1: And over Zoom right, yeah, zoom.

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Speaker 2: We did much.

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Speaker 3: We were not in the same room for like four

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Speaker 3: years or so, but it was like a month and

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Speaker 3: a half of just sitting on Zoom and chatting. It

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Speaker 3: was really easy. It was just because there was no pressure.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have nobody bought it, there was no deadline,

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Speaker 3: nobody was waiting for this, and we kind of jumped

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Speaker 3: into that with, hey, if this turns out to be nothing,

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Speaker 3: you know. So we had coffee over Zoom for a

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Speaker 3: month and then we put it all together. You know.

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Speaker 3: It took all these stories and I would basically just

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Speaker 3: literally transcribe Mike's stories exactly as he said, and then

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Speaker 3: sort of put it in some rough order, sent it

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Speaker 3: over to Michael, and he started just expanding them and

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Speaker 3: writing and digging, and we just went back and forth

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Speaker 3: and it came out well, I like to think.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's only one for you. When he came up

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Speaker 2: to me, initially I could see you in his face

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Speaker 2: and by his questions that he was thinking he must

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Speaker 2: have fallen on really hard times. He's playing birthday parties now, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I told him, noo, the guy's paying me a fortune.

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Speaker 1: As a caliber of Paul's neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, no, it was great fun. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: had he not suggested it, you know, and as I

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Speaker 2: like to say, how lucky am I? You know, I've

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Speaker 2: never written a book first book I write. I write

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Speaker 2: with a guy who's you know, written the screenplays, TV shows,

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Speaker 2: comic writer, produced movies, acted and everyone he hasn't produced,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I was like, this is too good

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Speaker 2: to be true. And you know, the only in trepidation

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Speaker 2: I had was but once we got started, I started

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Speaker 2: to think, Oh my god, what have I agreed to?

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Speaker 1: What have I done?

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Speaker 2: Because I've got Paul on the hook for this thing,

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Speaker 2: and what if it just kind of fizzles out somewhere

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Speaker 2: halfway in the middle, you know, it's just not that

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Speaker 2: interesting anymore, you know, And like I just pictured myself

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Speaker 2: having a thing of things to come up with for

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Speaker 2: the next chapter.

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Speaker 3: But that was the nice part of truely. I mean,

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Speaker 3: almost everything I've ever done has been sort of on spec.

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Speaker 3: It's like, let me just go write this and then if,

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Speaker 3: you know, if it has interest to somebody, great, But

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Speaker 3: I find it's hard to write with a deadline or

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Speaker 3: somebody waiting for it. So this really was two guys

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Speaker 3: chatting and it was easy. You know. I was asking

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Speaker 3: questions that I genuinely wanted to know the answer, and Mike,

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Speaker 3: as we just started talking and relaxing, you know, he

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Speaker 3: would tell one story and then spin off into another story.

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Speaker 3: I go, well, that's really funny, and I don't know

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Speaker 3: where it goes, but that'll find a home somewhere. And

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Speaker 3: then the last six months eight months have been really

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Speaker 3: about editing it down and honing it. And we had

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Speaker 3: a great editor who came on board, you know, about

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Speaker 3: six eight months ago and gave us some great direction, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe thin this out, but expand over here.

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Speaker 3: And literally to the last minute, Mike would go, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if I ever told you this story.

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Speaker 2: I go, no, Jay, that's.

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Speaker 3: Great, And then suddenly that would find its way into

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Speaker 3: the book.

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Speaker 1: Do you worry about that as you're going along.

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Speaker 2: We're worried about it right now still as we speak.

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Speaker 1: How do you know you've mind everything.

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Speaker 2: One of the things for me that I kind of

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Speaker 2: felt that the endeavor might have some legs was Paul's

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Speaker 2: came to find out later his work ethic as a writer,

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Speaker 2: you know, but as a writer and an actor. One

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Speaker 2: of the more enduring qualities of Paul is that he's

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Speaker 2: genuinely interested in what everybody else is doing or has done,

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Speaker 2: or where they came from. Things like that, you know,

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Speaker 2: And that was a real motivating factor for me, because

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Speaker 2: he would ask me things about you know, before we

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Speaker 2: even decided to write the book. It's just in passing

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Speaker 2: that he was interested in knowing about Steely, Dan or

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Speaker 2: Donald and Walter, and I was all too happy to

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Speaker 2: talk about myself and for any opportunity to. You know,

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Speaker 2: my wife says, you know, the sound of your own

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Speaker 2: voice is the most pleasant thing in their life.

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Speaker 1: You know that plays against type though, because you do

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Speaker 1: come across as that could vary. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: come fro It appears even from the book like you

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Speaker 1: call yourself like a more of a band guys. This

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Speaker 1: is when you're kind of like you sign the solo

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Speaker 1: deal for your record with Warner, and you're kind of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm more of a band guy. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I want to and you're kind of having this conundrum

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Speaker 1: of like, well, I want to get my best songs

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Speaker 1: to the.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the sentences in the book that was

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Speaker 3: an AHA moment for me, and Mike said it really

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Speaker 3: kind of in passing, I went, that's maybe the origin

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Speaker 3: point of this book is you go, I have never

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Speaker 3: thought of myself as a solo guy. I was a

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Speaker 3: guy in a band and went, that really makes sense

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Speaker 3: because you have been and everybody's but you've played with

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Speaker 3: everybody over the last you know, for fifty years. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But it's funny because a lot of the stuff that

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Speaker 3: I was really intrigued about, not only was it hard

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Speaker 3: to get Mike to talk about it, but really there

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Speaker 3: wasn't even really questions that I could ask, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I hope I'm not making your self conscious, but

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Speaker 3: like Mike's voice is this thing that's like what is that?

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Speaker 3: And everybody loves Mike's voice, Like, but how do you

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Speaker 3: talk about I would ask him questions and go, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, Well, how do you get that sound? That's

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Speaker 3: how I say. It's like saying to George Clooney, we

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Speaker 3: how'd you get handsome? You know? What do you want?

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Speaker 3: It just came like this, So I would find the

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Speaker 3: things that I fascinate me still fascinate me. But you know,

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Speaker 3: I play piano, so and I watched Mike plays and

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Speaker 3: he plays very different style and it's really cool and

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Speaker 3: he does things that I can't quite figure out. And

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Speaker 3: so a lot of it was I tried to like,

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Speaker 3: and some of the stuff we cut it got a

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Speaker 3: little too nerdy, like I like, you know, talking about

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Speaker 3: you know, octaves and fifths and chords and went, yeah,

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Speaker 3: nobody's gonna want to hear that I helped. You know,

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Speaker 3: there are parts of the book that I think musicians

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Speaker 3: and techno nerds or seventies officionados might really dig into.

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Speaker 3: But at the heart of it is the story of

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Speaker 3: the guy that I knew, but I didn't really know

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Speaker 3: his story. And you know, part of what's so moving

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Speaker 3: in this book, I think is, you know, Mike's loving

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Speaker 3: relationship with his wife Amy over the years and all

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Speaker 3: they've been through, and Mike's journey, the substance abuse and

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Speaker 3: Mike's finding his career. As specific as it is to

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Speaker 3: Mike McDonald's journey, it really I think resonates with a

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Speaker 3: lot of people because everybody's had their own struggles, everybody's

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Speaker 3: had their own journey and their own lack of confidence,

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Speaker 3: and like, oh, here's this guy who's so successful and

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Speaker 3: we all love and look how long it took him

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Speaker 3: to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Really, one of the more beautiful things about the book

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Speaker 1: is starting out with the early life and just just

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Speaker 1: being so open about your lack of confidence, from a

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Speaker 1: young age, and that seems to kind of rear up

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Speaker 1: throughout your career, the addiction struggles, some of the ups

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Speaker 1: and downs you went through with your wife, your wife

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Speaker 1: getting sick, your kids. I mean, there's very personal book

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Speaker 1: that I feel like, beyond the music stuff which I

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Speaker 1: came to it for, there's a lot of great encouragement

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Speaker 1: just for life, you know, how to live your life. Well.

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Speaker 2: I think our hope was that people would see their

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Speaker 2: own life and you know, but with the books more

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Speaker 2: it's about, you know, specific incidents that music fans might

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Speaker 2: sound find interesting, but there's really not enough of that

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Speaker 2: to make a book, you know. I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of it is also how just random events and seemingly

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Speaker 2: unimportant moments in your life really are the things that

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Speaker 2: shape you more than the big events. And you know,

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Speaker 2: and that a lot of times, some of the worst

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Speaker 2: things that happened to us inevitably will almost without fail,

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Speaker 2: turn out to be the best things that ever happened

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Speaker 2: to us with enough time. But I think so much

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Speaker 2: of where we all find ourselves at a certain point

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Speaker 2: in our lives would be totally different. But for some

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Speaker 2: of the events that we would have rather not had

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Speaker 2: to go through. You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, most any movie, a good movie, a

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Speaker 3: good TV show, or a book, you know what hooks you, Well,

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Speaker 3: it's the story. It's like, yes, but what really hooks

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Speaker 3: you in the story, And if you get to it,

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Speaker 3: it's the character. It's the person, and there's an individual.

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Speaker 3: And what was I think really comes out in the

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Speaker 3: book is like, yeah, there these great stories of rock

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Speaker 3: history and Mike's musical journey, but at the heart of

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Speaker 3: it is this guy that you know. The reason I asked,

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Speaker 3: jokingly asked Mike to write a book years ago, was

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Speaker 3: I wanted to read it. It's like, I don't have

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Speaker 3: to be involved. I just who are you? Tell me

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Speaker 3: how this happened? And I'm to this day still flattered

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Speaker 3: and honored that he, you know, agreed to trust me

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Speaker 3: with his story to help him get it out. But

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Speaker 3: when you get done with it, what you see is, Oh,

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Speaker 3: here's this guy, as you say, who overcame, you know,

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Speaker 3: his own challenges and struggles. And I think everybody will

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Speaker 3: read that and go, yeah, why do we all make

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Speaker 3: life so hard for ourselves? And it should be simpler?

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Speaker 3: And it's somehow always inspiring and encouraging to read or

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Speaker 3: find out that somebody you admire hasn't necessarily figured it

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Speaker 3: out yet either. We're all still working at it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously a lot of people write memoirs. But as

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Speaker 1: someone who self admittedly is more of a band guy

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Speaker 1: than a solo guy, did it feel weird in the

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Speaker 1: end to have like your life distilled down to six

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Speaker 1: to twelve hour read in three hundred and eighteen pages?

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Speaker 1: It did?

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Speaker 2: You know? I mean? But I kind of just really

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Speaker 2: all the way along the way trusted Paul's I was

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Speaker 2: waiting for him to kind of give me the signal

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Speaker 2: one way or the other, like let's cut our losses

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Speaker 2: and put this on the shelf. But he, you know,

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Speaker 2: he kept encouraging me, goes, no, this is good, you know,

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Speaker 2: And at times, you know, I'm all too sure. I

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Speaker 2: would have never gotten past probably wouldn't got past the preface,

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Speaker 2: you know. But just in terms of my capacity as

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Speaker 2: a writer, I like to write, but I've only written

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Speaker 2: like articles and op eds, and I enjoy that. But

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Speaker 2: writing a long story and kind of putting the structure

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Speaker 2: of that together in advance and a draft and all

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Speaker 2: that that was the things that Paul really was so

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Speaker 2: helpful with and his along the way. As long as

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Speaker 2: he said to me, no, this is good. You know,

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Speaker 2: let's keep going. You know, that's all the confidence I

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Speaker 2: needed to keep going. You know, I was kind of

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Speaker 2: waiting for him to give me the like, you know,

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Speaker 2: a little time.

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Speaker 3: But again, because there was nobody, there was no commitment.

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Speaker 3: This was just you know, like two guys, let's just

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Speaker 3: see where this goes. And we always had the freedom

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Speaker 3: and I will always say, just write it and we'll

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Speaker 3: cut it if you know, if you go, hey, that's

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Speaker 3: too personal, just see what happens when you type it out,

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Speaker 3: and then we'll cut it. And if you don't like

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Speaker 3: what it says, we take it out. There's a real

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Speaker 3: freedom in that there's nobody expecting anything or waiting for anything.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of times, you know, went both ways.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times Mike would say something, there's a

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Speaker 3: really funny story, and but you look at it and

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Speaker 3: you go, I don't know if that belongs in your book,

299
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Speaker 3: though it's not about you. That that was a funny

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Speaker 3: story that happened to your friend in the studio. Great,

301
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Speaker 3: but now let's get back to your story. And then

302
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Speaker 3: there are a lot of times he just sort of

303
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Speaker 3: casually say something. I go go back what Ray Charles

304
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Speaker 3: is in his bathrobe and he's yelling if you can

305
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Speaker 3: I hear that?

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Speaker 1: Please?

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Speaker 3: I'd like to hear that story.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the great things about the

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Speaker 1: book too, is like it's so well structured because you know,

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Speaker 1: like you understand very early in this book how important

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Speaker 1: Racharles Michael McDonald.

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Speaker 3: You know, three.

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Speaker 1: Quarters through.

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Speaker 2: Up he's yelling in.

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Speaker 1: A bathrobe, screaming at you for money that you can't

316
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Speaker 1: give to me. Can you tell that story?

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Speaker 2: I guess yeah.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: It was one of the worst moments in my life,

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Speaker 2: the thought that Ray was even had agreed to do

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Speaker 2: this show. It was a show of which I was

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Speaker 2: the honoree. The idea was we were going to raise

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Speaker 2: money for NAM, which is a program that tries to

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Speaker 2: seek to keep music programs in the public schools alive

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Speaker 2: by donating instruments and texts and you know, things like

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Speaker 2: that worthy cause it was a worthy, a worthy and

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Speaker 2: so my initial thing with everybody was as far as

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Speaker 2: any kind of fee for performing, because Yamaha was very

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Speaker 2: generous with everybody, and you know, endorsed and sponsored all

330
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Speaker 2: the people at some point, but nobody got paid. Everybody

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Speaker 2: agreed that as long as the money is all going

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Speaker 2: to charity, and we're all that's the favored nation's idea here,

333
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Speaker 2: we're all good with.

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Speaker 1: Everyone needs to respect.

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Speaker 2: And apparently Ray had not gotten that memo, you know.

336
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Speaker 2: So when he found out he wasn't getting paid, you

337
00:16:11,796 --> 00:16:15,476
Speaker 2: know it, you know. And I get that because even

338
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Speaker 2: by then, I knew what it was like to be

339
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Speaker 2: in this business. And uh, you know, at the mercy

340
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Speaker 2: of all the powers that be along the way, you know,

341
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Speaker 2: most of the time you're not getting paid, you know.

342
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Speaker 3: But so you like, you're like hours before the show

343
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Speaker 3: and you get summoned to his trailer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I go in there. I'm thinking

345
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Speaker 2: the guy, his road manager came to me, and his

346
00:16:37,516 --> 00:16:40,396
Speaker 2: roadmasger was like out of a you know, a Lawn

347
00:16:40,516 --> 00:16:42,916
Speaker 2: Chaney movie or something. He had the cane, you know,

348
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Speaker 2: and he just looked like some kind of a mobster figure,

349
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Speaker 2: you know, And he says, the boss wants to talk

350
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Speaker 2: to you. I go, sure, And I couldn't tell if

351
00:16:53,156 --> 00:16:57,276
Speaker 2: his tone was ominous or not, but I didn't, you know, Sure,

352
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Speaker 2: I went to his trailer and Ray was in there.

353
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Speaker 2: And he uh, kind of a typical race demeanor, was

354
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Speaker 2: you know, he was. He was very nice and he said,

355
00:17:07,236 --> 00:17:09,476
Speaker 2: you know, he was doing to do Hagar because he

356
00:17:09,516 --> 00:17:13,076
Speaker 2: loved that song. And so he starts off. He goes,

357
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Speaker 2: Michael Man, He goes, when did you write?

358
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Speaker 1: He girl?

359
00:17:16,596 --> 00:17:20,356
Speaker 2: I love that song, you know, I said. I said, well, Ray,

360
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Speaker 2: I didn't write Hey girl. I said, it's Carol King

361
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Speaker 2: and Cherry Goffin. And he kind of stopped rocking for

362
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Speaker 2: a minute, and I could tell I was like, you know,

363
00:17:29,116 --> 00:17:32,596
Speaker 2: I had just gone down a few pegs in his radar,

364
00:17:32,836 --> 00:17:34,876
Speaker 2: so you know, I said, but yeah, it's a great song,

365
00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:38,876
Speaker 2: isn't it. He goes, yeah, Well, no, no matter. He goes, uh, Man,

366
00:17:38,916 --> 00:17:41,116
Speaker 2: I just got to talk to you. He goes, listen,

367
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Speaker 2: you got to give me something, you know, And I'm right,

368
00:17:45,756 --> 00:17:47,716
Speaker 2: and I kind of knew where he was going, but

369
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Speaker 2: I thought, well, surely, you know, I can explain my

370
00:17:51,596 --> 00:17:53,996
Speaker 2: way out of this, you know, I said, well, Ray,

371
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Speaker 2: I saw you know, at first, I tried to evade

372
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Speaker 2: the whole thing, like what kind of get you? You

373
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Speaker 2: got everything you need here in the dressing room? Is

374
00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:04,276
Speaker 2: this dressing room? Okay? He's like, no, man, he goes, Yeah,

375
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Speaker 2: you got to give me something. He goes, I said, well, ray, I,

376
00:18:08,796 --> 00:18:10,836
Speaker 2: you know we're talking about money. I said, you know,

377
00:18:10,876 --> 00:18:13,156
Speaker 2: I would pay you out of my own pocket. I'd

378
00:18:13,156 --> 00:18:16,076
Speaker 2: be happy to, I said. My only problem is that

379
00:18:16,636 --> 00:18:18,836
Speaker 2: I've kind of put it to everyone, gave everyone my

380
00:18:18,916 --> 00:18:21,116
Speaker 2: word that all the moneys from this thing we're going

381
00:18:21,156 --> 00:18:24,156
Speaker 2: to go to this charity. And if I paid anyone,

382
00:18:24,276 --> 00:18:26,236
Speaker 2: even if I no matter how willing I am to

383
00:18:26,276 --> 00:18:29,916
Speaker 2: do that, I would be breaking my word to everybody else,

384
00:18:30,036 --> 00:18:31,996
Speaker 2: you know, I said, So I'm kind of in a

385
00:18:32,036 --> 00:18:36,116
Speaker 2: weird spot, at which point he kind of his picture

386
00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:38,796
Speaker 2: of his voice went up just a little bit and he,

387
00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:41,076
Speaker 2: you know, kind of let me know and unknown certain

388
00:18:41,156 --> 00:18:45,316
Speaker 2: terms by by way of saying, you know, I'm an

389
00:18:45,316 --> 00:18:49,476
Speaker 2: old man. God damn it. You know, I don't you know,

390
00:18:49,796 --> 00:18:50,796
Speaker 2: I don't play this shit.

391
00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:52,276
Speaker 3: You know, there was a line in the book when

392
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Speaker 3: you said to you, you know, I've made a solemn oath.

393
00:18:54,036 --> 00:18:55,476
Speaker 3: He goes, I don't give a fuck about you.

394
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Speaker 2: I don't give about your solemn oath.

395
00:18:57,556 --> 00:19:00,956
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta give me something like oh no.

396
00:19:00,836 --> 00:19:02,836
Speaker 2: And so I was like, my life's passing in front

397
00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:04,996
Speaker 2: of me. And before I was. I'm walking into the trailer,

398
00:19:05,036 --> 00:19:07,436
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, well, if all those guys I played

399
00:19:07,436 --> 00:19:10,636
Speaker 2: with Ferguson could see me now going into meet call

400
00:19:10,756 --> 00:19:13,716
Speaker 2: for Ray Charles now at this point cut to him

401
00:19:13,956 --> 00:19:16,516
Speaker 2: like yelling at me, and Me's sitting there trying to

402
00:19:16,516 --> 00:19:18,076
Speaker 2: figure out am I gonna How am I going to

403
00:19:18,116 --> 00:19:22,236
Speaker 2: get out of this conversation gracefully thinking oh boy, if

404
00:19:22,316 --> 00:19:24,516
Speaker 2: my friends and Ferguson could see me now Ray Charles

405
00:19:24,596 --> 00:19:25,796
Speaker 2: chewing my ass out, you know.

406
00:19:26,356 --> 00:19:28,316
Speaker 3: But you know, there was these little sort of like

407
00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:31,396
Speaker 3: sub themes that only emerged after we got all these

408
00:19:31,436 --> 00:19:34,316
Speaker 3: stories together. And like Mike has this you know, really

409
00:19:35,196 --> 00:19:40,396
Speaker 3: wonderful relationship and affection for his dad, and through the

410
00:19:40,396 --> 00:19:43,836
Speaker 3: book the story is about not wanting to disappoint his dad.

411
00:19:43,916 --> 00:19:46,636
Speaker 3: And then we get to Mike had a story with

412
00:19:46,676 --> 00:19:50,516
Speaker 3: Quincy Jones where it kind of didn't go smoothly, and

413
00:19:50,716 --> 00:19:53,996
Speaker 3: Charles and like and suddenly respected you know, yeah, and

414
00:19:54,036 --> 00:19:56,516
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, this all ties together. Like when

415
00:19:56,516 --> 00:20:00,836
Speaker 3: you have this guy in your life that you revere,

416
00:20:01,356 --> 00:20:03,356
Speaker 3: your last thing you want to do is disappoint them.

417
00:20:03,396 --> 00:20:07,756
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I can see Mike's soul through this book.

418
00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:12,116
Speaker 2: Now, Well, the threat for me was almost every situation

419
00:20:12,196 --> 00:20:15,636
Speaker 2: of responsibility, especially if it dealt with people that I

420
00:20:15,676 --> 00:20:18,156
Speaker 2: you know, was like with in case of Ray and Quincy.

421
00:20:18,956 --> 00:20:21,076
Speaker 2: I was about to work with these guys who I'd

422
00:20:21,116 --> 00:20:23,476
Speaker 2: never dreamed a million years would ever work with me

423
00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:26,316
Speaker 2: or for any reason, you know. And my dad, I

424
00:20:26,356 --> 00:20:28,716
Speaker 2: was always trying to get his respect, you know, and

425
00:20:28,756 --> 00:20:32,556
Speaker 2: I when I suspected all along it if he could

426
00:20:32,596 --> 00:20:34,956
Speaker 2: trade me in for another son, he probably would, you

427
00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:38,436
Speaker 2: know that, you know I mean, but so that theme,

428
00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:40,636
Speaker 2: you know, when I became a patrol boy, you know,

429
00:20:40,836 --> 00:20:43,076
Speaker 2: whenever I got one of those perks as a kid,

430
00:20:43,156 --> 00:20:46,276
Speaker 2: even I would blow it within twenty four hours. I

431
00:20:46,356 --> 00:20:50,516
Speaker 2: got a paper route once and I wound up selling

432
00:20:50,556 --> 00:20:52,876
Speaker 2: everybody yesterday's paper, I believe, or.

433
00:20:52,796 --> 00:20:54,836
Speaker 3: I thought a while that was there.

434
00:20:54,996 --> 00:20:56,316
Speaker 2: I thought this is going to be easy. It's only

435
00:20:56,396 --> 00:20:58,596
Speaker 2: like six or seven papers there. I didn't see the

436
00:20:58,676 --> 00:21:01,276
Speaker 2: gigantic cliole of papers that were tied in you know,

437
00:21:01,756 --> 00:21:04,876
Speaker 2: wire over across the street waiting for me to go

438
00:21:04,916 --> 00:21:05,636
Speaker 2: over and get them.

439
00:21:05,676 --> 00:21:05,876
Speaker 3: You know.

440
00:21:06,356 --> 00:21:08,756
Speaker 2: So I got fired from that job. I caused the

441
00:21:08,756 --> 00:21:10,996
Speaker 2: three our pile up on my first day as a

442
00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:13,716
Speaker 2: patrol boy. That was always the running theme in my

443
00:21:13,756 --> 00:21:16,036
Speaker 2: life was like give Mike the job and watch him

444
00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:18,076
Speaker 2: just crash and burn, you know.

445
00:21:18,316 --> 00:21:20,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, well then for every one of those stories, it's

446
00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:24,236
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna put my whirltzer my Pinto, go drive

447
00:21:24,316 --> 00:21:27,356
Speaker 1: down try out for Steely Dan, a group I really love,

448
00:21:27,396 --> 00:21:30,396
Speaker 1: and it's like tryout turns into the practice.

449
00:21:30,796 --> 00:21:33,716
Speaker 2: Into had come off a long string of auditions I

450
00:21:33,756 --> 00:21:35,916
Speaker 2: failed when I went to that one, you know, and

451
00:21:36,156 --> 00:21:39,156
Speaker 2: and of all the ones I got for some reason, Uh.

452
00:21:39,236 --> 00:21:40,836
Speaker 1: What with auditions you got before that?

453
00:21:41,196 --> 00:21:43,756
Speaker 2: Oh? Just regular you know bands around town that were like,

454
00:21:44,316 --> 00:21:47,196
Speaker 2: we had pretty good gigs, like playing in these what

455
00:21:47,236 --> 00:21:50,196
Speaker 2: were discos back then, before DJs and before all that

456
00:21:50,916 --> 00:21:55,516
Speaker 2: were typically bands who did a lot of funk dance music,

457
00:21:55,596 --> 00:21:58,436
Speaker 2: you know, and people like to dance too, so that

458
00:21:58,636 --> 00:22:00,796
Speaker 2: was what you thought of as a discothech back then.

459
00:22:01,716 --> 00:22:02,836
Speaker 1: There was a playing like.

460
00:22:04,356 --> 00:22:06,796
Speaker 2: Sol Yeah, you know, you go into another band had

461
00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:10,916
Speaker 2: all those tunes and tower Power, you know, the War,

462
00:22:11,316 --> 00:22:13,876
Speaker 2: you know, all all the music that people just you know,

463
00:22:13,996 --> 00:22:15,956
Speaker 2: like to get up and dance to. They weren't there

464
00:22:15,956 --> 00:22:17,876
Speaker 2: to just mingle. They like to dance, you know, And.

465
00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:19,836
Speaker 1: Were those your kind of bands like.

466
00:22:19,796 --> 00:22:23,236
Speaker 2: Well, I had a certain part. We always liked enjoyed

467
00:22:23,276 --> 00:22:25,196
Speaker 2: doing that and growing up, yeah, that's what we were,

468
00:22:25,276 --> 00:22:27,676
Speaker 2: you know, in Saint Louis. We came from that era

469
00:22:27,796 --> 00:22:31,356
Speaker 2: where you know, people just really enjoyed dancing on the weekends,

470
00:22:31,356 --> 00:22:33,436
Speaker 2: and we were the band they could play the stuff

471
00:22:33,436 --> 00:22:34,476
Speaker 2: that they like to dance.

472
00:22:34,276 --> 00:22:36,956
Speaker 1: To, but like to like ev be someone who eventually

473
00:22:36,996 --> 00:22:39,316
Speaker 1: goes and joins seely Dan, which is like a really

474
00:22:39,516 --> 00:22:42,516
Speaker 1: high brow form of music, an incredible form of music.

475
00:22:42,716 --> 00:22:45,316
Speaker 1: You know. I just imagine like playing War, who I

476
00:22:45,396 --> 00:22:47,076
Speaker 1: love by the way, and it's a large band, but

477
00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:49,756
Speaker 1: like that might can imagine they might be beneath like Donald.

478
00:22:50,676 --> 00:22:52,316
Speaker 2: Oh no, they love War too, you know. I mean,

479
00:22:52,356 --> 00:22:55,156
Speaker 2: I know Donald loves War. Donald probably has a more

480
00:22:55,156 --> 00:22:58,116
Speaker 2: eclectic taste of music than even I do. You know,

481
00:22:58,156 --> 00:23:01,876
Speaker 2: he's you know, I was surprised he was so grateful dead.

482
00:23:01,956 --> 00:23:04,236
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have figured him for that at all. I

483
00:23:04,276 --> 00:23:07,156
Speaker 2: didn't know he was oh yeah yeah. And back then,

484
00:23:07,316 --> 00:23:09,716
Speaker 2: you know, I did a lot of gigs, like kind

485
00:23:09,716 --> 00:23:12,996
Speaker 2: of coffee house type gigs with singer songwriters, like I

486
00:23:13,076 --> 00:23:16,316
Speaker 2: played the Smokehouse and Burbank there, you know, and the

487
00:23:16,356 --> 00:23:18,636
Speaker 2: steel drum player. It was like any place that they

488
00:23:18,676 --> 00:23:20,636
Speaker 2: would actually pay us to show up, we would do

489
00:23:20,716 --> 00:23:23,476
Speaker 2: that gig, you know. So but these club gigs were

490
00:23:23,476 --> 00:23:25,356
Speaker 2: a little special because you got paid a little more

491
00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:27,836
Speaker 2: and they were more steady. If you were a good

492
00:23:28,076 --> 00:23:31,316
Speaker 2: house band at a club like that, like the rain

493
00:23:31,396 --> 00:23:35,316
Speaker 2: Tree and Torrents and places like that, you could maybe

494
00:23:35,356 --> 00:23:38,156
Speaker 2: work there for a year, you know, and you would

495
00:23:38,276 --> 00:23:39,716
Speaker 2: have to worry about how you're going to pay your

496
00:23:39,716 --> 00:23:43,036
Speaker 2: phone bill for a little while, you know. But a

497
00:23:43,076 --> 00:23:47,036
Speaker 2: lot of those gigs, I would study and advance the songs.

498
00:23:47,076 --> 00:23:50,196
Speaker 2: I thought they'd get their song list and I'd show

499
00:23:50,276 --> 00:23:53,076
Speaker 2: up and I was like, thanks, but you know, no thanks,

500
00:23:53,116 --> 00:23:56,036
Speaker 2: you know almost got it. If you played a little

501
00:23:56,036 --> 00:23:58,156
Speaker 2: more organ or if you you know'd sing a little

502
00:23:58,236 --> 00:24:00,876
Speaker 2: higher or whatever it was. I would seemingly never get

503
00:24:00,876 --> 00:24:05,236
Speaker 2: the gig. So to walk into this thing and literally

504
00:24:05,316 --> 00:24:07,916
Speaker 2: I didn't know most of their songs. I didn't know.

505
00:24:08,476 --> 00:24:10,756
Speaker 2: I knew the ones I liked that I heard on

506
00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:14,116
Speaker 2: the radio, but so I was literally learning the songs

507
00:24:14,156 --> 00:24:16,236
Speaker 2: on the spot. Donald was teaching them to me.

508
00:24:16,276 --> 00:24:18,356
Speaker 3: And they're not easy songs.

509
00:24:18,156 --> 00:24:20,796
Speaker 2: No, I mean they're not. There's a lot of vocal parts.

510
00:24:21,516 --> 00:24:23,316
Speaker 2: But I was just so desperate to get this gig

511
00:24:23,356 --> 00:24:25,596
Speaker 2: because I loved the band so much. I was I

512
00:24:25,596 --> 00:24:28,876
Speaker 2: think I went into some other mental state that I

513
00:24:29,036 --> 00:24:32,876
Speaker 2: don't normally visit, you know, where I actually my brain

514
00:24:33,076 --> 00:24:36,356
Speaker 2: works at a higher efficiency. And I learned the songs.

515
00:24:36,396 --> 00:24:39,716
Speaker 2: And but three or four hours later, I'm thinking, if

516
00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:41,676
Speaker 2: I got this gig, I don't know, you know, I mean,

517
00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:44,236
Speaker 2: no one's told me to thanks, but no thanks yet,

518
00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:48,756
Speaker 2: you know. And so they I say, say, well, come

519
00:24:48,756 --> 00:24:51,916
Speaker 2: back next day, we'll learn some more stuff. And I

520
00:24:51,956 --> 00:24:53,916
Speaker 2: started to kind of assume that I got the gig,

521
00:24:53,956 --> 00:24:57,036
Speaker 2: and it just it turns out I did. And so

522
00:24:57,516 --> 00:25:00,276
Speaker 2: that first audition turned into a rehearsal, which turned into

523
00:25:00,756 --> 00:25:03,956
Speaker 2: the following week of rehearsal or so, and then we

524
00:25:04,036 --> 00:25:07,996
Speaker 2: left for points beyond in the United States and played

525
00:25:07,996 --> 00:25:08,836
Speaker 2: all around the States.

526
00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:11,676
Speaker 1: That's about as incredible a gig as you can have

527
00:25:11,756 --> 00:25:12,876
Speaker 1: expected to have gotten.

528
00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:15,476
Speaker 2: It was the gig I would It was a dream gig,

529
00:25:15,556 --> 00:25:19,996
Speaker 2: you know. And uh and true to form, Timothy Schmidt

530
00:25:19,996 --> 00:25:22,116
Speaker 2: and I talked about this because we were both kind

531
00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:24,996
Speaker 2: of in that those guys around town who were hoping

532
00:25:25,036 --> 00:25:28,396
Speaker 2: for that gig, a gig like the Eagles or Steee Dan. Yeah,

533
00:25:28,636 --> 00:25:31,716
Speaker 2: come along, daydreams and stuff, you know, and he goes,

534
00:25:31,756 --> 00:25:33,276
Speaker 2: you know, in a minute, you get it, he goes,

535
00:25:33,316 --> 00:25:36,476
Speaker 2: what happens? The band breaks up? You know. A week later.

536
00:25:40,396 --> 00:25:43,116
Speaker 1: After quick Break, we're back with more from Michael McDonald

537
00:25:43,196 --> 00:25:51,276
Speaker 1: and Paul Reiser. We're back with Michael McDonald and Paul Reiser.

538
00:25:51,836 --> 00:25:54,036
Speaker 1: That tour with Steely Dan, I was looking it up.

539
00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:58,396
Speaker 1: You got to play on bills with some other interesting groups,

540
00:25:58,436 --> 00:26:01,436
Speaker 1: and I was just curious how much you remember, like Montrose,

541
00:26:02,476 --> 00:26:06,716
Speaker 1: Sammy Hagar's group, the Beach Boys, the Eagles might have

542
00:26:06,796 --> 00:26:08,116
Speaker 1: been on a gig, a bill on a gig.

543
00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:09,996
Speaker 2: We did one with the Eagle. I think we did

544
00:26:10,836 --> 00:26:14,716
Speaker 2: the thing up in San Francisco on the day on

545
00:26:14,756 --> 00:26:17,316
Speaker 2: the Green. The Eagles, I think he played the day

546
00:26:17,356 --> 00:26:20,236
Speaker 2: before us. We were the headliner the next night.

547
00:26:20,916 --> 00:26:24,996
Speaker 1: So you get two touring stints with Steely Dan, and

548
00:26:25,036 --> 00:26:29,236
Speaker 1: then afterwards you come back to California and the dissolved

549
00:26:29,316 --> 00:26:32,596
Speaker 1: the band. You kind of have like one last run

550
00:26:32,636 --> 00:26:34,996
Speaker 1: in with Walter before that kind of era is over,

551
00:26:35,036 --> 00:26:36,756
Speaker 1: which is he almost gets arrested.

552
00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:40,956
Speaker 2: Looking we both almost got arrested, but we had a

553
00:26:41,036 --> 00:26:44,116
Speaker 2: mutual friend and we were gonna. You know, we both

554
00:26:44,156 --> 00:26:46,516
Speaker 2: like to smoke pot and we like to do the

555
00:26:46,556 --> 00:26:49,636
Speaker 2: occasional blow. But you know, we weren't. You needed one

556
00:26:49,676 --> 00:26:53,476
Speaker 2: of us where two people could really afford a good

557
00:26:53,516 --> 00:26:55,636
Speaker 2: coke hab it, you know. So we came up with

558
00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:57,956
Speaker 2: the idea that we could get a little bit from

559
00:26:57,996 --> 00:27:00,636
Speaker 2: this friend of ours we knew was a dealer, and

560
00:27:00,836 --> 00:27:02,716
Speaker 2: it was so good that we could cut it and

561
00:27:02,756 --> 00:27:06,156
Speaker 2: it would still be better than most stuff that our

562
00:27:06,156 --> 00:27:10,156
Speaker 2: friends might run into on the street. We could just

563
00:27:10,196 --> 00:27:13,076
Speaker 2: sell it to our close friends and.

564
00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:14,196
Speaker 3: Shows you a business model.

565
00:27:14,316 --> 00:27:15,916
Speaker 2: It was our business model, and then we would have

566
00:27:15,956 --> 00:27:18,996
Speaker 2: some leftover to get us through the week. Well, the

567
00:27:19,156 --> 00:27:21,436
Speaker 2: entire amount didn't get us through the night even you know,

568
00:27:21,516 --> 00:27:23,956
Speaker 2: we of course snorted most of it before we ever

569
00:27:23,956 --> 00:27:27,796
Speaker 2: got around to cutting it, and our conversations just got

570
00:27:27,836 --> 00:27:31,956
Speaker 2: sillier and sillier, and that wound up in the LA Police.

571
00:27:32,276 --> 00:27:34,756
Speaker 2: Coming back to this apartment, I was, I was only

572
00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:38,116
Speaker 2: watching this apartment for a friend of mine, and she

573
00:27:38,196 --> 00:27:39,916
Speaker 2: happened to have scales and everything. I thought, well, this

574
00:27:39,956 --> 00:27:42,076
Speaker 2: is a perfect setting for cutting this cocaine.

575
00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:44,636
Speaker 1: And you know makeshift office.

576
00:27:44,596 --> 00:27:48,036
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And well, anyway, the whole thing went

577
00:27:48,076 --> 00:27:52,116
Speaker 2: south really quickly and wound up that next morning somewhere

578
00:27:52,316 --> 00:27:55,836
Speaker 2: just before dawn with what seemed like the entire La

579
00:27:56,276 --> 00:27:59,956
Speaker 2: Police County police force, you know, knocking at my door

580
00:28:00,596 --> 00:28:04,636
Speaker 2: with Walter in tow and he had apparently been knocking

581
00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:07,316
Speaker 2: on some windows across the alley because he forgot which

582
00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:08,516
Speaker 2: apartment I lived in, and.

583
00:28:09,316 --> 00:28:10,876
Speaker 3: He was out screaming at for in the morning.

584
00:28:10,956 --> 00:28:15,316
Speaker 2: Yeah Coke, Mike, are you in there? You know? So anyway,

585
00:28:15,356 --> 00:28:18,156
Speaker 2: but re miraculously we did not go to jail.

586
00:28:18,276 --> 00:28:19,916
Speaker 1: And then and then it's like the night ends as

587
00:28:19,956 --> 00:28:21,796
Speaker 1: it's like mundane it's can be. Was you go into

588
00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:24,916
Speaker 1: bed and he's coked out, drinking margarina, that's playing electric

589
00:28:24,996 --> 00:28:28,156
Speaker 1: bass on your acoustic bass on your Yeah.

590
00:28:28,196 --> 00:28:29,196
Speaker 2: Sure, It's like.

591
00:28:29,356 --> 00:28:30,356
Speaker 1: What kind of life is it?

592
00:28:30,836 --> 00:28:33,836
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, it was a typical musician's life at that

593
00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,276
Speaker 2: point in time. You know, you know, it seemed like

594
00:28:36,316 --> 00:28:40,756
Speaker 2: all we really thought about back in those days was

595
00:28:40,596 --> 00:28:43,996
Speaker 2: it wasn't about money or managing any money or or

596
00:28:44,036 --> 00:28:46,956
Speaker 2: even you know, making money necessarily. It was just the

597
00:28:47,036 --> 00:28:49,396
Speaker 2: next gig was all we really ever thought about. What

598
00:28:49,676 --> 00:28:52,196
Speaker 2: when's the next gig and what we got to do

599
00:28:52,236 --> 00:28:52,676
Speaker 2: to get there?

600
00:28:52,756 --> 00:28:55,036
Speaker 3: And you know, and and that's sort of a nice

601
00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:57,996
Speaker 3: through line through the whole story from Mike being eight

602
00:28:58,116 --> 00:29:02,236
Speaker 3: years old till today that it's the music. It's not

603
00:29:02,876 --> 00:29:06,356
Speaker 3: you know, it's not any the fancy of couci mas.

604
00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:08,876
Speaker 3: It's not the fame. It's when do I get to

605
00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:11,116
Speaker 3: play who do I get to play with? And what? Gee,

606
00:29:11,116 --> 00:29:13,156
Speaker 3: I had a moment where a song came to me

607
00:29:13,316 --> 00:29:16,156
Speaker 3: or I heard something and it moved me. And you know,

608
00:29:16,156 --> 00:29:18,716
Speaker 3: there's so many moments in the beginning of your career

609
00:29:18,756 --> 00:29:21,076
Speaker 3: which are in the book of you going you know

610
00:29:21,156 --> 00:29:24,036
Speaker 3: it is maybe not what I was cut out for,

611
00:29:24,196 --> 00:29:26,276
Speaker 3: or like, gee, this is not as fun as I

612
00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:28,596
Speaker 3: thought it would be, and maybe I'm gonna There was

613
00:29:28,636 --> 00:29:30,516
Speaker 3: even story, you know, came out to La for his

614
00:29:30,556 --> 00:29:33,676
Speaker 3: big break at eighteen and it blows up and I

615
00:29:33,836 --> 00:29:36,156
Speaker 3: was but you know, back home with the tail between

616
00:29:36,156 --> 00:29:39,316
Speaker 3: his legs, I'm Saint Louis. Yeah, I guess that didn't happen.

617
00:29:39,556 --> 00:29:43,676
Speaker 3: And the story could have ended there, but for this

618
00:29:43,796 --> 00:29:46,156
Speaker 3: phone call and that phone call and suddenly, all right,

619
00:29:46,236 --> 00:29:49,436
Speaker 3: take two, you get another shot at And that's sort

620
00:29:49,476 --> 00:29:52,196
Speaker 3: of the theme. If there's a theme, it's like what

621
00:29:52,396 --> 00:29:54,276
Speaker 3: Mike was saying before like these little moments that are

622
00:29:54,276 --> 00:29:58,116
Speaker 3: accidental turn out to be pivotal and there but for

623
00:29:58,156 --> 00:30:01,596
Speaker 3: the grace of God or anything else, those moments wouldn't happened.

624
00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:04,556
Speaker 3: We wouldn't have had this career and this music that

625
00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:08,796
Speaker 3: we've gotten to enjoy. So you know, I feel successful

626
00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:10,996
Speaker 3: in that what we set out to do. What I

627
00:30:11,036 --> 00:30:14,236
Speaker 3: wanted to know as a selfish fan, was like, I

628
00:30:14,276 --> 00:30:16,796
Speaker 3: want to understand Mike McDonald's life because it doesn't make

629
00:30:16,836 --> 00:30:18,836
Speaker 3: sense to me. Now I do. Now I get it,

630
00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:21,276
Speaker 3: and you read the story and go, okay, So what

631
00:30:21,356 --> 00:30:23,796
Speaker 3: happened because of these boneheaded things that have no reason

632
00:30:23,796 --> 00:30:25,956
Speaker 3: to have ever happened? He got a call to go

633
00:30:26,196 --> 00:30:29,876
Speaker 3: audition for Steely Dan. Why that's how it happened. He

634
00:30:30,036 --> 00:30:33,156
Speaker 3: understands it. Yeah, well, to see it all in one place,

635
00:30:33,276 --> 00:30:36,276
Speaker 3: like okay, And by the way, you know, as much

636
00:30:36,276 --> 00:30:38,996
Speaker 3: as it's hard to get a track of, maybe you

637
00:30:39,156 --> 00:30:43,476
Speaker 3: understand Michael McDonald's arc, Steely Dan itself is hard to grasp.

638
00:30:43,916 --> 00:30:46,796
Speaker 3: Doobie Brothers broke up and reformed seventeen times? So like,

639
00:30:47,396 --> 00:30:49,236
Speaker 3: oh okay, no wonder, I can't keep track. There's a

640
00:30:49,276 --> 00:30:52,836
Speaker 3: lot of moving pieces here, so it helped to understand that.

641
00:30:53,836 --> 00:30:56,076
Speaker 2: And again, I think one of the themes that we

642
00:30:56,356 --> 00:30:58,756
Speaker 2: started to emerge for both of us in the writing

643
00:30:58,796 --> 00:31:02,436
Speaker 2: of it was this is really what happens to everybody.

644
00:31:02,476 --> 00:31:02,716
Speaker 3: You know.

645
00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:06,236
Speaker 2: We all think that we were going to a distinct

646
00:31:06,276 --> 00:31:08,876
Speaker 2: place with our lives, and we make a plan and

647
00:31:09,676 --> 00:31:12,676
Speaker 2: typically never you know, best laid plans, you know, yea,

648
00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,036
Speaker 2: and the journey's never over. I mean, my kids are

649
00:31:15,356 --> 00:31:17,356
Speaker 2: you know, they're in their thirties, and once in a

650
00:31:17,356 --> 00:31:20,356
Speaker 2: while they'll confide in me about you know, well, you

651
00:31:20,436 --> 00:31:22,916
Speaker 2: knew what you wanted to do when you were you know,

652
00:31:22,996 --> 00:31:25,596
Speaker 2: half my age, or I just don't know what I

653
00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:27,996
Speaker 2: want to do yet? What what's what do next?

654
00:31:28,116 --> 00:31:28,596
Speaker 3: Or whatever?

655
00:31:28,676 --> 00:31:33,676
Speaker 2: And all those questions that I can unabashedly reassure them

656
00:31:33,716 --> 00:31:36,876
Speaker 2: that you'll be asking yourself those questions when you're seventy five.

657
00:31:37,076 --> 00:31:39,836
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the book, you never seemingly know where you're

658
00:31:39,876 --> 00:31:40,356
Speaker 1: going next.

659
00:31:40,516 --> 00:31:44,116
Speaker 2: No, And and it's almost kind of scary to be

660
00:31:44,196 --> 00:31:47,036
Speaker 2: my age now and still not know where I'm going.

661
00:31:47,116 --> 00:31:49,236
Speaker 2: You know, I look at my life ahead and I

662
00:31:49,316 --> 00:31:53,316
Speaker 2: just well, should I be you know, preparing for this?

663
00:31:53,396 --> 00:31:56,396
Speaker 2: Should I be preparing for that? Should I be just

664
00:31:56,516 --> 00:31:59,636
Speaker 2: forging ahead with my head down and keep swinging.

665
00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:02,596
Speaker 1: Are there things musically that you feel like I need

666
00:32:02,636 --> 00:32:03,156
Speaker 1: to check this.

667
00:32:03,196 --> 00:32:05,676
Speaker 2: Off all over the place? Yeah, all over the map.

668
00:32:05,756 --> 00:32:07,556
Speaker 2: I mean, what are some of those things? Well, one

669
00:32:07,596 --> 00:32:10,596
Speaker 2: of them was just playing organ. I always loved a

670
00:32:10,596 --> 00:32:12,876
Speaker 2: good B three player, and I always you know, and

671
00:32:12,876 --> 00:32:16,476
Speaker 2: that was always my waterloo. I just thought, you know,

672
00:32:16,516 --> 00:32:18,356
Speaker 2: every time I got near a B three, I would

673
00:32:18,356 --> 00:32:19,876
Speaker 2: play it once in a while, you know, on a

674
00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:22,476
Speaker 2: session or something. But I never felt like I knew

675
00:32:22,516 --> 00:32:23,996
Speaker 2: what I was doing, and I always felt like it

676
00:32:24,036 --> 00:32:26,876
Speaker 2: was I was convinced it was an instrument that unless

677
00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:29,436
Speaker 2: somebody put you at it when you were five and

678
00:32:29,476 --> 00:32:32,156
Speaker 2: you couldn't even reach the pedals, you had no business

679
00:32:32,156 --> 00:32:35,596
Speaker 2: playing it because it's a lifetime. It's like accordion. If

680
00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:38,036
Speaker 2: you didn't start playing that when you're a kid's fat

681
00:32:38,156 --> 00:32:40,356
Speaker 2: chance you're going to learn it now, you know. But

682
00:32:40,796 --> 00:32:43,196
Speaker 2: lo and behold later in life, when I went back

683
00:32:43,236 --> 00:32:44,596
Speaker 2: with the Doobies, all of a sudden, I saw the

684
00:32:44,596 --> 00:32:47,716
Speaker 2: opportunity to you know, and when I played with them before,

685
00:32:47,716 --> 00:32:50,196
Speaker 2: I never played organ, you know, I only played keyboards.

686
00:32:50,396 --> 00:32:54,036
Speaker 2: And since you know, the first time, Yeah, so this

687
00:32:54,076 --> 00:32:55,796
Speaker 2: is the first time I've actually played organ with them,

688
00:32:55,836 --> 00:32:58,436
Speaker 2: and I always wanted to on certain songs, but I

689
00:32:58,516 --> 00:33:01,596
Speaker 2: just never trusted myself to be put on stage with

690
00:33:01,676 --> 00:33:02,116
Speaker 2: an organ.

691
00:33:02,156 --> 00:33:04,356
Speaker 3: How different is it? How different is it to play?

692
00:33:04,516 --> 00:33:07,396
Speaker 2: If it's key, It's a different feeling because you don't

693
00:33:07,476 --> 00:33:09,876
Speaker 2: have a sustained pedal, you know, it's one of the things,

694
00:33:10,036 --> 00:33:12,756
Speaker 2: you know, you learn to kind of play more fluidly

695
00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:15,316
Speaker 2: without any kind of sustained pill.

696
00:33:15,476 --> 00:33:17,596
Speaker 1: You're a very rhythmic player, though, so I'd imagine it

697
00:33:17,596 --> 00:33:19,316
Speaker 1: would really suit you.

698
00:33:19,676 --> 00:33:23,396
Speaker 2: In some ways. Yeah, I kind of came to understand

699
00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:26,076
Speaker 2: what I could and couldn't do with organ, you know.

700
00:33:26,156 --> 00:33:28,756
Speaker 2: And every time I got a little inkling of what

701
00:33:29,276 --> 00:33:32,036
Speaker 2: I could maybe make use of this, you know, I

702
00:33:32,036 --> 00:33:36,196
Speaker 2: could bring something to this song on organ, it would

703
00:33:36,236 --> 00:33:38,116
Speaker 2: intrigued me all the more. And so by the time

704
00:33:38,156 --> 00:33:41,396
Speaker 2: the fiftieth anniversary came around, I was convinced that this

705
00:33:41,556 --> 00:33:44,236
Speaker 2: was my shot to you know, get up play a

706
00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:46,916
Speaker 2: little organ, you know. So I do, and I enjoy

707
00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:49,316
Speaker 2: the hell out of it. I really, I've always loved

708
00:33:49,316 --> 00:33:52,516
Speaker 2: the instrument, but it's it's a real learning curve for me,

709
00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:55,156
Speaker 2: and I'm and I find that seventy two, what if

710
00:33:55,196 --> 00:33:58,116
Speaker 2: I got to lose. I'm enjoying that where that might

711
00:33:58,116 --> 00:34:01,436
Speaker 2: have terrified me in my thirties, like the imposter syndrome,

712
00:34:01,476 --> 00:34:04,116
Speaker 2: Like somebody's going to know how little I know about this,

713
00:34:04,356 --> 00:34:07,196
Speaker 2: you know, but I kind of don't care about that now.

714
00:34:07,236 --> 00:34:10,276
Speaker 2: I just want to dive in to it. And some

715
00:34:10,316 --> 00:34:12,716
Speaker 2: of the guys I know who I've always admired them

716
00:34:12,996 --> 00:34:16,236
Speaker 2: for their acumen with B three have been more than

717
00:34:16,356 --> 00:34:19,076
Speaker 2: kind to show me some stuff and kind of help me.

718
00:34:19,396 --> 00:34:21,396
Speaker 3: You know who the guys that are that you look

719
00:34:21,436 --> 00:34:23,756
Speaker 3: up to in that world great organ players.

720
00:34:23,516 --> 00:34:26,316
Speaker 2: Well, Billy Payne's a great organists, Billy Preston was a

721
00:34:26,316 --> 00:34:29,996
Speaker 2: great organist. Pat Coyle who I've played with for years

722
00:34:30,036 --> 00:34:34,956
Speaker 2: as a wonderful B three player. Robbie Robinson who plays

723
00:34:34,996 --> 00:34:38,156
Speaker 2: with Frankie Valley and played over the years with a

724
00:34:38,156 --> 00:34:41,396
Speaker 2: lot of different acts, kind of known for being good

725
00:34:41,596 --> 00:34:44,356
Speaker 2: organ guys, you know, and they've all stepped up to

726
00:34:44,476 --> 00:34:48,316
Speaker 2: kind of help me with my you know, that's so cool.

727
00:34:48,716 --> 00:34:51,276
Speaker 2: One friend of mine, a new friend of mine, Abdul

728
00:34:51,316 --> 00:34:55,876
Speaker 2: Royal is a great organist. You know, a lot of

729
00:34:55,916 --> 00:34:58,316
Speaker 2: the guys that grew up in church, Mark Harris, who

730
00:34:58,516 --> 00:35:01,636
Speaker 2: played on a lot of songs and records with me,

731
00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:04,876
Speaker 2: and you know, they were guys that typically grew up

732
00:35:04,956 --> 00:35:07,476
Speaker 2: in church and learned to play organ in church. And

733
00:35:07,636 --> 00:35:10,676
Speaker 2: it's almost super natural what some of these guys can

734
00:35:10,716 --> 00:35:13,116
Speaker 2: do and how you know easy it is for them

735
00:35:13,156 --> 00:35:17,756
Speaker 2: to just manipulate the organ while they're playing something. It

736
00:35:17,796 --> 00:35:19,236
Speaker 2: would be hard enough for me to just play what

737
00:35:19,276 --> 00:35:22,956
Speaker 2: they're playing, much less be thinking about what drawbars I'm

738
00:35:22,996 --> 00:35:25,076
Speaker 2: going to pull out, right, you know, when I'm going

739
00:35:25,156 --> 00:35:28,236
Speaker 2: to put this button on and that, you know, and

740
00:35:28,276 --> 00:35:30,316
Speaker 2: then they play with their feet too, you know, Yeah,

741
00:35:30,356 --> 00:35:33,556
Speaker 2: And that's a that's an amazing all of it has

742
00:35:33,596 --> 00:35:37,436
Speaker 2: to become instinctual. And I think your best chance at

743
00:35:37,476 --> 00:35:40,756
Speaker 2: that is starting when you're about four, you know.

744
00:35:40,676 --> 00:35:44,676
Speaker 1: Right right when your feet can't touch the right Yeah.

745
00:35:44,756 --> 00:35:46,916
Speaker 1: Can you talk a bit about you get to the

746
00:35:46,996 --> 00:35:50,236
Speaker 1: doobies eventually, and this puts you in the ecosystem of

747
00:35:50,396 --> 00:35:54,516
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Records, which was a really unique ecosystem in

748
00:35:54,556 --> 00:35:58,436
Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties into the early nineties. It was

749
00:35:58,836 --> 00:35:59,996
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little bit.

750
00:36:00,596 --> 00:36:04,076
Speaker 2: What I loved about Warners were the people involved, you know,

751
00:36:04,436 --> 00:36:09,716
Speaker 2: Lenny Warnicker, Russ Titleman, Ted Templeman, Moe Austin. Well, everybody

752
00:36:09,756 --> 00:36:13,156
Speaker 2: was creative. The promotion guys were creative. They they seem

753
00:36:13,196 --> 00:36:15,156
Speaker 2: to know how to market this kind of music that

754
00:36:16,316 --> 00:36:21,076
Speaker 2: wasn't that typically obviously commercial music. It was artists like

755
00:36:21,116 --> 00:36:24,476
Speaker 2: Bonnie Raid, Little Feet. They brought artists to the forefront

756
00:36:24,516 --> 00:36:28,476
Speaker 2: like Ricky Lee, Jones, Van Halen, you know, the DeBie Brothers,

757
00:36:28,516 --> 00:36:31,356
Speaker 2: even you know, although we might have been one of them,

758
00:36:31,436 --> 00:36:34,356
Speaker 2: their more you know, obviously kind of commercial acts.

759
00:36:34,356 --> 00:36:35,956
Speaker 1: You know, all these they had a lot of acts

760
00:36:35,996 --> 00:36:38,596
Speaker 1: that were they didn't sell a lot of records. Yeah,

761
00:36:38,796 --> 00:36:40,076
Speaker 1: they didn't quite care about it, and.

762
00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:42,756
Speaker 2: They would keep those artists on their roster. They you know,

763
00:36:43,356 --> 00:36:46,676
Speaker 2: you know, some of those artists never really gained that

764
00:36:47,076 --> 00:36:53,916
Speaker 2: incredible commercial success, but they flourished under the umbrella an

765
00:36:54,036 --> 00:36:58,156
Speaker 2: artistic kind of nurturing. That Warners and those people in

766
00:36:58,196 --> 00:37:01,676
Speaker 2: the A and R department who are all great producers themselves,

767
00:37:01,716 --> 00:37:04,516
Speaker 2: you know, they these guys weren't just A and R guys.

768
00:37:04,556 --> 00:37:07,876
Speaker 2: They their walls were filled with some of my favorite

769
00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:10,596
Speaker 2: albums of gold record some platinum records.

770
00:37:10,436 --> 00:37:12,956
Speaker 1: A lot of records you made with Ted Templeman.

771
00:37:12,756 --> 00:37:17,356
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Ted was he was kind of a Svengali

772
00:37:17,396 --> 00:37:20,436
Speaker 2: in the studio really, and we knew we were really lucky,

773
00:37:20,556 --> 00:37:23,916
Speaker 2: especially us, because we were kind of a gangly bunch

774
00:37:24,836 --> 00:37:28,036
Speaker 2: of many different and diverse influences. And it was like

775
00:37:28,116 --> 00:37:32,636
Speaker 2: hurting cats artistically, and Ted did a great job of that,

776
00:37:32,756 --> 00:37:35,476
Speaker 2: you know, and I think we all appreciated his ability

777
00:37:35,516 --> 00:37:38,436
Speaker 2: to do that. It was just a really wonderful place

778
00:37:38,476 --> 00:37:41,676
Speaker 2: to be in this business of music if you were

779
00:37:41,676 --> 00:37:45,276
Speaker 2: a recording artists at that time, you know, And I

780
00:37:45,316 --> 00:37:47,276
Speaker 2: felt like I was in an elite group, you know.

781
00:37:47,316 --> 00:37:51,236
Speaker 2: I mean where else would an artist like Randy Newman flourish,

782
00:37:51,276 --> 00:37:53,916
Speaker 2: you know, because everybody knew him as a songwriter and

783
00:37:53,956 --> 00:37:56,996
Speaker 2: everybody wanted to do his songs, you know. But they

784
00:37:57,036 --> 00:37:59,476
Speaker 2: were the ones who always encouraged him to make his

785
00:37:59,556 --> 00:38:03,156
Speaker 2: own solo records. And with all the success that Bonnie

786
00:38:03,396 --> 00:38:08,596
Speaker 2: had later, it was really after her tenure at Warner Bros.

787
00:38:08,796 --> 00:38:12,316
Speaker 2: But every bit because of the nurse element and the

788
00:38:12,396 --> 00:38:16,356
Speaker 2: love of her artistry that they had for her. I

789
00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:17,476
Speaker 2: think she would tell you that too.

790
00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:20,196
Speaker 1: When she had her success ultimately with with Don was.

791
00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:22,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I think the one of the best things

792
00:38:22,636 --> 00:38:24,756
Speaker 2: that about Bonnie's story that I love is when she

793
00:38:24,836 --> 00:38:28,756
Speaker 2: started writing, you know, because I think she even she

794
00:38:29,076 --> 00:38:31,156
Speaker 2: might have been surprised at what a great writer she is.

795
00:38:31,316 --> 00:38:31,756
Speaker 1: Yeah.

796
00:38:31,876 --> 00:38:35,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's written some great songs, you know, and some

797
00:38:35,716 --> 00:38:37,796
Speaker 2: of my favorite songs. You know, Nika Time is such

798
00:38:38,196 --> 00:38:41,836
Speaker 2: such a great tune. It's it's almost uncandy that she

799
00:38:41,916 --> 00:38:43,676
Speaker 2: didn't do that earlier in her career.

800
00:38:43,916 --> 00:38:47,996
Speaker 1: Yeah. The artists on Warner where you mentioned some of them,

801
00:38:48,156 --> 00:38:52,156
Speaker 1: there's also Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and Fleetwood.

802
00:38:51,716 --> 00:38:52,996
Speaker 2: Mac Carly Simon.

803
00:38:53,356 --> 00:38:55,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, James Taylor, did you guys feel like a family

804
00:38:55,796 --> 00:38:58,876
Speaker 1: where you did? You know a lot of the other artists, And.

805
00:38:58,836 --> 00:39:00,636
Speaker 2: Well, if I got to meet them at all, it

806
00:39:00,716 --> 00:39:03,516
Speaker 2: was usually in the halls of Warner Brothers or at

807
00:39:03,516 --> 00:39:07,756
Speaker 2: the studio there where we all recorded Amigo Studios. But

808
00:39:07,876 --> 00:39:09,476
Speaker 2: I got to meet James there, and I got to

809
00:39:09,516 --> 00:39:12,556
Speaker 2: meet car McCarley and I wrote a song later it

810
00:39:12,636 --> 00:39:17,036
Speaker 2: was a really significant song in my career. And we

811
00:39:17,076 --> 00:39:19,316
Speaker 2: met when she just dropped by one of our sessions

812
00:39:19,316 --> 00:39:22,716
Speaker 2: because Ted was scheduled to produce an album on her

813
00:39:23,476 --> 00:39:25,836
Speaker 2: and she came by to say hi to him and

814
00:39:25,876 --> 00:39:29,956
Speaker 2: we were recording Keeps You Running. So she liked the song,

815
00:39:29,996 --> 00:39:32,716
Speaker 2: and she decided to record the song on her next record,

816
00:39:32,876 --> 00:39:36,076
Speaker 2: so we played on the track for her and that

817
00:39:36,156 --> 00:39:39,156
Speaker 2: was a thrill, you know, because she was already, you know,

818
00:39:39,156 --> 00:39:42,676
Speaker 2: a huge artist. And James it was like my all

819
00:39:42,716 --> 00:39:46,396
Speaker 2: time fave, you know, I just loved everything he did.

820
00:39:46,436 --> 00:39:49,716
Speaker 2: And Grilla the Gorilla Record was like for me, the

821
00:39:49,756 --> 00:39:52,396
Speaker 2: Holy Grail, you know, I just love that record so much.

822
00:39:52,836 --> 00:39:55,356
Speaker 1: And Carly, eventually you got to co write one of

823
00:39:55,436 --> 00:39:57,476
Speaker 1: your huge hits with her, right like, yeah, we.

824
00:39:58,116 --> 00:40:02,636
Speaker 2: Co wrote you Belong to Me and never spoke a

825
00:40:02,676 --> 00:40:04,876
Speaker 2: word to each other during the whole writing of the song.

826
00:40:05,196 --> 00:40:08,076
Speaker 2: We had a track on it, and I gave the

827
00:40:08,556 --> 00:40:11,756
Speaker 2: cassette of my playing the song at home to Teddy

828
00:40:11,796 --> 00:40:14,396
Speaker 2: and I said, that's the song, and you know, I

829
00:40:14,556 --> 00:40:16,596
Speaker 2: just all I have is that one line, you Belong

830
00:40:16,636 --> 00:40:18,196
Speaker 2: to Me. I don't even know what it means, you know,

831
00:40:18,716 --> 00:40:21,636
Speaker 2: but it's just a playsetter, really, you know, that's kind

832
00:40:21,636 --> 00:40:25,676
Speaker 2: of where the chorus should go. And ted without missing

833
00:40:25,676 --> 00:40:28,076
Speaker 2: a beach, said, you know, you should let Carly Simon

834
00:40:28,116 --> 00:40:31,116
Speaker 2: write the lyric to this, and which just sounded so

835
00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:35,276
Speaker 2: perfectly right to me. I just said, your lips to

836
00:40:35,316 --> 00:40:38,756
Speaker 2: God's ears. Sure, you know, and he sent it off

837
00:40:38,796 --> 00:40:43,636
Speaker 2: to her and she sent this beautifully handwritten lyric back,

838
00:40:43,756 --> 00:40:46,836
Speaker 2: and I wish I still had that handwritten lyric somewhere.

839
00:40:47,356 --> 00:40:50,276
Speaker 2: I keep praying someday I'll open a book and it'll

840
00:40:50,276 --> 00:40:50,796
Speaker 2: fall out.

841
00:40:51,636 --> 00:40:53,836
Speaker 3: But there's one of those happy accidents again, like if

842
00:40:53,876 --> 00:40:56,716
Speaker 3: she had not dropped by the studio that day, so

843
00:40:56,956 --> 00:40:59,076
Speaker 3: that would have happened. Yeah, so there's one of the

844
00:40:59,076 --> 00:41:00,956
Speaker 3: biggest hits in your library.

845
00:41:02,276 --> 00:41:04,196
Speaker 1: After one last quick break, we're back with the rest

846
00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:11,636
Speaker 1: of my conversation with Paul Reiser and Michael McDonald. We're

847
00:41:11,636 --> 00:41:14,076
Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Paul Riser

848
00:41:14,316 --> 00:41:18,436
Speaker 1: and Michael McDonald. Another happy accident you document well in

849
00:41:18,436 --> 00:41:23,516
Speaker 1: the book, Paul, is what a fool believes when Kenny

850
00:41:24,116 --> 00:41:26,196
Speaker 1: is coming over to your house to do a writing session.

851
00:41:26,836 --> 00:41:28,276
Speaker 2: That's one of Paul's favorite stories.

852
00:41:28,716 --> 00:41:29,236
Speaker 1: Tell that story.

853
00:41:29,276 --> 00:41:31,836
Speaker 3: Oh, there was nothing Mike. You know, Mike is very

854
00:41:32,476 --> 00:41:34,916
Speaker 3: forthcoming about how sometimes have an idea and I'll just

855
00:41:35,036 --> 00:41:37,916
Speaker 3: rattle around for months and years. And he had that

856
00:41:37,956 --> 00:41:43,836
Speaker 3: little so because somebody who was it in the in

857
00:41:43,876 --> 00:41:47,116
Speaker 3: the Doobies that said Kenny once was a cornelius.

858
00:41:46,596 --> 00:41:50,076
Speaker 2: I guess Kenny expressed some interest in writing with me,

859
00:41:50,196 --> 00:41:54,916
Speaker 2: and I asked not Cornelis was Tyrone reporter? And asked

860
00:41:54,916 --> 00:41:58,276
Speaker 2: Tyrone if you would give him me his number? And

861
00:41:58,356 --> 00:42:01,396
Speaker 2: Tyrone passed on the number to me. You know, I

862
00:42:01,516 --> 00:42:05,076
Speaker 2: was so excited, you know, maybe too excited, you know,

863
00:42:05,156 --> 00:42:07,836
Speaker 2: but I called it and we made an appointment to write,

864
00:42:07,876 --> 00:42:10,716
Speaker 2: and Kenny was going to come down for Santa Barbara

865
00:42:10,836 --> 00:42:14,836
Speaker 2: to write with me. And I lived alone at the time.

866
00:42:14,876 --> 00:42:18,756
Speaker 2: In my house was filthy, bachelor filthy, you know, the

867
00:42:18,796 --> 00:42:22,476
Speaker 2: ashtrays full of cigarettes on the piano and stuff, and

868
00:42:22,676 --> 00:42:27,156
Speaker 2: empty beer bottles everywhere and uh cigarettes floating in him

869
00:42:27,156 --> 00:42:31,556
Speaker 2: and god knows who was there. And my sister came

870
00:42:31,596 --> 00:42:35,236
Speaker 2: over mostly to meet Kenny Loggins, but she cleaned my

871
00:42:35,316 --> 00:42:38,076
Speaker 2: house up, you know, frantically cleaning my house before he

872
00:42:38,116 --> 00:42:41,036
Speaker 2: got there. So I met the piano and like sitting

873
00:42:41,076 --> 00:42:44,156
Speaker 2: over there and kind of messing around with some little

874
00:42:44,236 --> 00:42:47,116
Speaker 2: bits and pieces of songs I had, trying to think, well,

875
00:42:47,156 --> 00:42:49,276
Speaker 2: what do I have that I could play for him?

876
00:42:49,676 --> 00:42:51,836
Speaker 2: Maybe something we could be a start for us, you know,

877
00:42:52,236 --> 00:42:54,556
Speaker 2: looking through notebooks and things I might have written down,

878
00:42:54,596 --> 00:42:54,876
Speaker 2: you know.

879
00:42:54,836 --> 00:42:56,676
Speaker 3: But I love that you bounced it off your sister

880
00:42:56,716 --> 00:42:58,276
Speaker 3: and go, I don't know, what do you think it

881
00:42:58,316 --> 00:43:02,156
Speaker 3: is that? And she goes kind of cringees. I go, yeah,

882
00:43:02,156 --> 00:43:05,436
Speaker 3: I don't think I would play that. Yeah, okay, thank

883
00:43:05,476 --> 00:43:05,956
Speaker 3: you sister.

884
00:43:06,396 --> 00:43:08,436
Speaker 2: Yeah, she kind of I think she thought maybe that

885
00:43:08,556 --> 00:43:10,356
Speaker 2: was a little too circusy or something, you know.

886
00:43:10,876 --> 00:43:14,276
Speaker 3: But then the unbelievably good timing of Kenny opens the.

887
00:43:14,236 --> 00:43:16,556
Speaker 2: Door and the doorbell rang at the moment I was

888
00:43:16,596 --> 00:43:19,036
Speaker 2: playing it for her, and she kind of went, I

889
00:43:19,076 --> 00:43:22,396
Speaker 2: don't know about that one. The doorbell rings, you know,

890
00:43:22,596 --> 00:43:25,076
Speaker 2: And I go to the door and there's Kenny and

891
00:43:25,116 --> 00:43:28,956
Speaker 2: he's got his guitar and a bag with note pads

892
00:43:28,956 --> 00:43:31,116
Speaker 2: and you know, he's kind of struggling with all this

893
00:43:31,156 --> 00:43:33,716
Speaker 2: stuff and tape player in his hand. I said, here, game,

894
00:43:33,836 --> 00:43:35,876
Speaker 2: let me let me take your guitar. Said man, I'm

895
00:43:35,876 --> 00:43:38,036
Speaker 2: so glad you could come down. He goes, Before we say

896
00:43:38,076 --> 00:43:40,636
Speaker 2: anything else, he goes, you were just playing something on

897
00:43:40,636 --> 00:43:44,996
Speaker 2: the piano. He goes, is that something new? And I said, oh, yeah.

898
00:43:45,276 --> 00:43:47,036
Speaker 2: The fact I was playing it for my sister just

899
00:43:47,076 --> 00:43:50,396
Speaker 2: hates it. Yeah, because I was thinking about playing it

900
00:43:50,436 --> 00:43:52,916
Speaker 2: for you, you know, because I want to work on

901
00:43:52,956 --> 00:43:53,556
Speaker 2: that first.

902
00:43:54,076 --> 00:43:57,516
Speaker 3: And apparently from the other side of the door. Just

903
00:43:57,556 --> 00:44:00,076
Speaker 3: hearing that had already come up with she had a

904
00:44:00,156 --> 00:44:03,836
Speaker 3: place in his life was like insane, that's yeah, the

905
00:44:03,836 --> 00:44:05,436
Speaker 3: bridge before I answered the door, you.

906
00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:06,276
Speaker 1: Know, insane.

907
00:44:06,596 --> 00:44:07,236
Speaker 2: Yeah.

908
00:44:07,316 --> 00:44:08,716
Speaker 1: How long did it take for that song to come

909
00:44:08,756 --> 00:44:10,436
Speaker 1: together between the two, Well.

910
00:44:10,276 --> 00:44:13,956
Speaker 2: We finished most of it that day. The chorus we

911
00:44:13,996 --> 00:44:16,596
Speaker 2: wrote the next day on the phone. Right, We kind

912
00:44:16,596 --> 00:44:18,916
Speaker 2: of left that day going we got something good here,

913
00:44:18,956 --> 00:44:22,676
Speaker 2: but it really needs that chorus, you know, a chorus

914
00:44:22,676 --> 00:44:25,436
Speaker 2: that really pays off, And we couldn't, for the life

915
00:44:25,436 --> 00:44:27,196
Speaker 2: of us figure out what that was yet. You know,

916
00:44:27,756 --> 00:44:30,236
Speaker 2: we kind of knew where the lyric was going intentionally,

917
00:44:30,276 --> 00:44:33,996
Speaker 2: you know, like two people looking back on a moment

918
00:44:34,236 --> 00:44:38,876
Speaker 2: with two completely different views on what exactly happened, and

919
00:44:39,116 --> 00:44:42,796
Speaker 2: the guy thinking this was this great missed opportunity for

920
00:44:42,836 --> 00:44:45,916
Speaker 2: the love of his life and only assuming that she

921
00:44:45,996 --> 00:44:48,596
Speaker 2: felt the same way. But obviously she did not, you know,

922
00:44:49,436 --> 00:44:53,436
Speaker 2: so he's looking to renew this flame, and she's just

923
00:44:53,476 --> 00:44:55,276
Speaker 2: looking to have dinner with an old friend, you know.

924
00:44:55,836 --> 00:44:58,716
Speaker 2: But we just really couldn't figure out how that would

925
00:44:59,196 --> 00:45:02,716
Speaker 2: culminate into a chorus. But the next day, I don't

926
00:45:02,716 --> 00:45:05,556
Speaker 2: know which one or the other of us thought, Well,

927
00:45:05,596 --> 00:45:08,716
Speaker 2: you know what a fool believes? You know. So I

928
00:45:08,796 --> 00:45:10,476
Speaker 2: was on the piano and we were on the phone.

929
00:45:10,836 --> 00:45:13,156
Speaker 2: Back then you could actually play the piano over the

930
00:45:13,156 --> 00:45:16,836
Speaker 2: phone and be coherent. You know. Nowadays with the iPhones

931
00:45:16,876 --> 00:45:19,796
Speaker 2: you can't do that. But so we came up with

932
00:45:19,836 --> 00:45:22,276
Speaker 2: the chorus chords and the melody.

933
00:45:21,916 --> 00:45:23,476
Speaker 1: And playing back and forth over the phone.

934
00:45:23,556 --> 00:45:26,396
Speaker 2: Yeah, just kind of trading, trading ideas over the phone

935
00:45:26,436 --> 00:45:27,836
Speaker 2: until we came up with the chorus.

936
00:45:27,876 --> 00:45:29,676
Speaker 3: And that was when you said, you know, what a

937
00:45:29,716 --> 00:45:31,676
Speaker 3: full Believes might be a good name for a book.

938
00:45:33,716 --> 00:45:37,156
Speaker 3: That's how prescient he was. Not yet, but in forty years,

939
00:45:37,196 --> 00:45:38,196
Speaker 3: this is going to be a book.

940
00:45:38,716 --> 00:45:39,596
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a book.

941
00:45:39,676 --> 00:45:41,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, the two of you with titles mad about you

942
00:45:41,676 --> 00:45:44,636
Speaker 1: what a full Believe? I mean, you guys are incredible

943
00:45:44,636 --> 00:45:47,516
Speaker 1: at the titles, And there's a point in the book

944
00:45:47,916 --> 00:45:50,596
Speaker 1: and wonner as great as they were, there's a point

945
00:45:50,596 --> 00:45:53,196
Speaker 1: where you put out living on a fault Line and

946
00:45:53,236 --> 00:45:56,716
Speaker 1: it's kind of stretching their imagination of what you guys are, which,

947
00:45:56,716 --> 00:46:00,716
Speaker 1: by the way, that record missed my consciousness completely. It's

948
00:46:00,716 --> 00:46:01,836
Speaker 1: a really good album.

949
00:46:01,996 --> 00:46:04,476
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and I said, yeah, it wasn't met

950
00:46:04,516 --> 00:46:07,436
Speaker 2: with a lot of enthusiasm and owners or you know,

951
00:46:07,876 --> 00:46:10,436
Speaker 2: by the public or by radio. Really it was kind

952
00:46:10,436 --> 00:46:13,076
Speaker 2: of went under the radar, and I think we were

953
00:46:13,156 --> 00:46:16,916
Speaker 2: kind of going into areas that were, you know, just.

954
00:46:16,876 --> 00:46:19,236
Speaker 1: Not that commercial really like you're made that way.

955
00:46:20,996 --> 00:46:23,036
Speaker 2: Well, you belonged to Me was on that there's a Light.

956
00:46:23,276 --> 00:46:27,036
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, this is some incredible song, but you're

957
00:46:27,076 --> 00:46:29,076
Speaker 1: kind of stretching them and then minute by minute you

958
00:46:29,116 --> 00:46:32,636
Speaker 1: guys write and record that. And it's really the R

959
00:46:32,676 --> 00:46:36,836
Speaker 1: and B promotions team at Warner Brothers that here's something

960
00:46:37,636 --> 00:46:38,996
Speaker 1: and decides we're going to promote this.

961
00:46:39,276 --> 00:46:42,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the head of the R and B promotions

962
00:46:42,196 --> 00:46:45,236
Speaker 2: at the time, which was a whole different ballgame. This

963
00:46:45,396 --> 00:46:49,156
Speaker 2: was like just pre urban kind of music before rap

964
00:46:49,236 --> 00:46:52,796
Speaker 2: came out and everything. The whole complexion of how to

965
00:46:52,876 --> 00:46:55,876
Speaker 2: market R and B music and where you know, what

966
00:46:55,916 --> 00:46:59,716
Speaker 2: that market even was, you know, had changed dramatically and

967
00:47:00,036 --> 00:47:02,196
Speaker 2: obviously for the better. Hip hop is huge. You know,

968
00:47:02,756 --> 00:47:06,116
Speaker 2: back then the R and B department warners once in

969
00:47:06,156 --> 00:47:07,996
Speaker 2: a while caught up. They had some great R and

970
00:47:08,036 --> 00:47:10,956
Speaker 2: B artists, Patty Austin and James Ingram, so they had

971
00:47:11,196 --> 00:47:14,476
Speaker 2: huge success print that Prince. Yeah, but it was a

972
00:47:14,556 --> 00:47:17,996
Speaker 2: changing time, and Ernie Singleton was the head of promotion

973
00:47:18,076 --> 00:47:20,156
Speaker 2: back then, and he was one of those guys that

974
00:47:20,316 --> 00:47:25,796
Speaker 2: kind of understood radio, you know, especially in the black community,

975
00:47:25,796 --> 00:47:30,636
Speaker 2: which was largely radio stations were owned and operated by

976
00:47:31,356 --> 00:47:33,956
Speaker 2: the program director, you know, you know they were they

977
00:47:33,956 --> 00:47:38,556
Speaker 2: were typically black. Yeah, smaller black owned businesses, and the

978
00:47:38,596 --> 00:47:43,516
Speaker 2: guy who owned the radio station was typically the head

979
00:47:43,636 --> 00:47:47,276
Speaker 2: jock and had the airtime. And so if you walked

980
00:47:47,316 --> 00:47:49,756
Speaker 2: in there with an album and he liked it, he'd

981
00:47:49,756 --> 00:47:51,596
Speaker 2: sit you down and play the whole record, you know,

982
00:47:51,756 --> 00:47:54,996
Speaker 2: and that just doesn't happen anymore. You know that those

983
00:47:55,116 --> 00:47:56,036
Speaker 2: days are gone, you know.

984
00:47:56,516 --> 00:47:58,836
Speaker 1: Reading that, though it was interesting, it kind of confirmed something,

985
00:47:58,876 --> 00:48:00,596
Speaker 1: which is that like R and B is such a

986
00:48:00,796 --> 00:48:02,956
Speaker 1: kind of a bullshit title to begin with, but so

987
00:48:03,076 --> 00:48:05,196
Speaker 1: are titles in general. Because I was thinking about it,

988
00:48:05,236 --> 00:48:09,596
Speaker 1: and it's like the AOAR format album oriented rock or

989
00:48:09,716 --> 00:48:13,396
Speaker 1: soft rock or or now yacht rock. It's like, really

990
00:48:13,476 --> 00:48:16,796
Speaker 1: what that was was like it was R and B. Really,

991
00:48:16,796 --> 00:48:20,036
Speaker 1: you guys are playing yeah, but you know, because you

992
00:48:20,036 --> 00:48:22,556
Speaker 1: guys are white guys or your white Tyran's black, I mean,

993
00:48:22,596 --> 00:48:25,556
Speaker 1: you know, but it's like, okay, well, we can't.

994
00:48:25,756 --> 00:48:27,676
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, I would much rather be called

995
00:48:27,916 --> 00:48:30,556
Speaker 2: yacht rock than adult contemporary.

996
00:48:31,436 --> 00:48:34,756
Speaker 1: But why can't like you're a damn R and B singer? Well,

997
00:48:34,836 --> 00:48:35,436
Speaker 1: you know right?

998
00:48:35,916 --> 00:48:38,676
Speaker 2: I always felt that way. I remember when I had

999
00:48:39,236 --> 00:48:42,236
Speaker 2: my own label for a while, very short while, with

1000
00:48:42,356 --> 00:48:45,076
Speaker 2: a couple of friends, and we hired independent promotion guys,

1001
00:48:45,356 --> 00:48:47,796
Speaker 2: and we had this one guy. He was kind of

1002
00:48:47,796 --> 00:48:50,716
Speaker 2: a classic character, really is an independent promotion guy, just

1003
00:48:50,756 --> 00:48:53,516
Speaker 2: you know, you know, I would say to look, why

1004
00:48:53,516 --> 00:48:56,196
Speaker 2: don't we go to all the formats with this, Oh no,

1005
00:48:56,276 --> 00:48:59,596
Speaker 2: you can't do that. No you're not you're not rock. Okay,

1006
00:48:59,756 --> 00:49:02,076
Speaker 2: let me just tell you that, right, you know, well,

1007
00:49:02,116 --> 00:49:04,756
Speaker 2: you know, but the only real success we had were

1008
00:49:04,836 --> 00:49:07,876
Speaker 2: on formats that no one would have ever except the

1009
00:49:07,876 --> 00:49:11,076
Speaker 2: one guy in that department, like Erny Singleton, who said

1010
00:49:11,076 --> 00:49:13,316
Speaker 2: to me at some point, he goes, you know, I've

1011
00:49:13,356 --> 00:49:15,996
Speaker 2: always dug the band. They just would never give us

1012
00:49:16,076 --> 00:49:18,796
Speaker 2: the ball. They wouldn't you know. We were the last

1013
00:49:18,836 --> 00:49:20,956
Speaker 2: guys they would say, Hey, go out and promote the

1014
00:49:20,956 --> 00:49:22,156
Speaker 2: next Doobie Brothers album.

1015
00:49:22,236 --> 00:49:24,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, a live bit in a fault line I feel

1016
00:49:24,156 --> 00:49:26,276
Speaker 1: like would have done really well in R and B. Yeah,

1017
00:49:26,276 --> 00:49:27,876
Speaker 1: if there's stuff on there sounds like earth Wind and

1018
00:49:27,916 --> 00:49:28,996
Speaker 1: five we had leading.

1019
00:49:28,876 --> 00:49:31,356
Speaker 2: Into those guys. They would have probably brought it to

1020
00:49:31,956 --> 00:49:34,676
Speaker 2: gotten some radio play that we never really got with it.

1021
00:49:35,036 --> 00:49:37,516
Speaker 2: But you know, that's just hindsight twenty twenty, you know,

1022
00:49:37,636 --> 00:49:42,276
Speaker 2: and typically the world needs to categorize everything, just like

1023
00:49:42,316 --> 00:49:45,876
Speaker 2: the major labels always needed to tell people what they

1024
00:49:45,916 --> 00:49:48,636
Speaker 2: want to hear, you know. Yeah, and that was always

1025
00:49:48,676 --> 00:49:51,556
Speaker 2: the thing that was like it was like shooting themselves

1026
00:49:51,556 --> 00:49:53,836
Speaker 2: in the foot, you know, but it was in an

1027
00:49:53,836 --> 00:49:56,676
Speaker 2: effort to control the market that they wanted to grow.

1028
00:49:57,436 --> 00:50:01,436
Speaker 2: Like when the major labels before rock and roll started

1029
00:50:01,476 --> 00:50:05,956
Speaker 2: to kind of make us noise, it was the Sinatras

1030
00:50:05,996 --> 00:50:08,396
Speaker 2: and you know, and rightfully so the great singers and

1031
00:50:08,676 --> 00:50:11,996
Speaker 2: artists the time. The trios were big back then, that

1032
00:50:12,116 --> 00:50:14,756
Speaker 2: Cold Trio and a lot of those East Coast trios

1033
00:50:14,796 --> 00:50:17,716
Speaker 2: that were fairly popular, you know, but they were the

1034
00:50:17,716 --> 00:50:20,396
Speaker 2: ones that were making anything that sounded like pop records.

1035
00:50:20,876 --> 00:50:23,996
Speaker 2: The Mills Brothers and you know, nobody else was making

1036
00:50:24,076 --> 00:50:25,916
Speaker 2: records for the average guy.

1037
00:50:26,036 --> 00:50:26,236
Speaker 3: You know.

1038
00:50:26,716 --> 00:50:29,796
Speaker 2: It was either classical records or you know, but the

1039
00:50:29,796 --> 00:50:32,196
Speaker 2: big labels didn't want it to grow beyond that because

1040
00:50:32,236 --> 00:50:34,676
Speaker 2: they knew they had these guys signed, and we're just

1041
00:50:34,716 --> 00:50:37,716
Speaker 2: going to keep selling these guys records. So all these

1042
00:50:37,756 --> 00:50:41,476
Speaker 2: little independent labels started popping up because they had the

1043
00:50:41,556 --> 00:50:46,116
Speaker 2: Fontella Basses and Chuck Berry's and the Little Richards, and

1044
00:50:46,356 --> 00:50:50,636
Speaker 2: you know, they had these crazy phenomenal acts that they

1045
00:50:50,676 --> 00:50:53,516
Speaker 2: were catching on like wildfire, and they knew that the

1046
00:50:53,556 --> 00:50:56,396
Speaker 2: major labels weren't interested, you know, and all of a sudden,

1047
00:50:56,396 --> 00:50:58,156
Speaker 2: the major labels start going, whoa, wait a minute, we're

1048
00:50:58,156 --> 00:51:00,596
Speaker 2: missing out on this, so they would buy up all

1049
00:51:00,596 --> 00:51:02,996
Speaker 2: the little indies. It's always been that kind of big

1050
00:51:03,396 --> 00:51:06,276
Speaker 2: the whale comes along and eats everybody, and then it

1051
00:51:06,316 --> 00:51:09,276
Speaker 2: starts to, you know, just kind of fester until some

1052
00:51:09,316 --> 00:51:12,956
Speaker 2: other little airwave pops up, like FM radio or you know,

1053
00:51:13,036 --> 00:51:16,156
Speaker 2: things like that. Rap came about the same way urban

1054
00:51:16,356 --> 00:51:19,516
Speaker 2: music as we know it today started at street level,

1055
00:51:19,676 --> 00:51:22,716
Speaker 2: you know, because there wasn't any labels that we're going

1056
00:51:22,796 --> 00:51:25,476
Speaker 2: to go out and sign these guys. You know, they

1057
00:51:25,516 --> 00:51:27,836
Speaker 2: made their own records and they were having success selling

1058
00:51:27,876 --> 00:51:31,956
Speaker 2: those records and getting an airtime with those records. And

1059
00:51:32,196 --> 00:51:34,076
Speaker 2: so the major labels have always had to learn that

1060
00:51:34,156 --> 00:51:37,876
Speaker 2: lesson over and over again. You can't really just dictate

1061
00:51:37,916 --> 00:51:40,116
Speaker 2: what people want to hear you. You have to have

1062
00:51:40,156 --> 00:51:42,436
Speaker 2: your ear to the ground so that you even know

1063
00:51:42,476 --> 00:51:43,116
Speaker 2: what's going on.

1064
00:51:43,236 --> 00:51:45,156
Speaker 1: You know which, right while we're talking about hip hop,

1065
00:51:45,196 --> 00:51:47,276
Speaker 1: I gotta thank you for the great war and g

1066
00:51:47,476 --> 00:51:51,156
Speaker 1: regulate you you're sampled by Warren g Long Beach legend.

1067
00:51:51,516 --> 00:51:52,516
Speaker 3: Oh that's right, he is.

1068
00:51:53,116 --> 00:51:54,236
Speaker 1: I got to thank you for Regulate.

1069
00:51:54,396 --> 00:51:57,876
Speaker 2: That's that's the version of my kids always liked. They

1070
00:51:57,876 --> 00:51:58,836
Speaker 2: didn't like my version.

1071
00:51:58,956 --> 00:52:00,436
Speaker 1: I mean, Regulate. Did you play it for me?

1072
00:52:01,396 --> 00:52:02,996
Speaker 2: I didn't have to. They are? They knew about it

1073
00:52:02,996 --> 00:52:05,716
Speaker 2: before I did. But yeah, you know they they love

1074
00:52:05,796 --> 00:52:09,916
Speaker 2: that version of it. And it's learning curve. You know,

1075
00:52:09,996 --> 00:52:13,836
Speaker 2: if you're a musician, you never stop learning what's going

1076
00:52:13,876 --> 00:52:17,116
Speaker 2: on around you, and you're never stop marveling at how

1077
00:52:17,516 --> 00:52:20,036
Speaker 2: You're never listening enough. It's kind of like being grateful.

1078
00:52:20,476 --> 00:52:23,756
Speaker 2: You know. You can say I'm grateful, but if you're

1079
00:52:23,796 --> 00:52:26,676
Speaker 2: really learning anything about your own life, you realize I'm

1080
00:52:26,676 --> 00:52:27,596
Speaker 2: not grateful enough.

1081
00:52:27,796 --> 00:52:27,996
Speaker 3: You know.

1082
00:52:28,316 --> 00:52:32,036
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, that's a great, great way of thinking about that.

1083
00:52:32,076 --> 00:52:35,516
Speaker 3: Why do you save that for the book? You know,

1084
00:52:35,916 --> 00:52:37,476
Speaker 3: I haven't shared this with you, but it's like I

1085
00:52:37,756 --> 00:52:43,156
Speaker 3: just hearing Mike's outlook on life. It's like I've learned

1086
00:52:43,156 --> 00:52:48,756
Speaker 3: to be more forgiving and more humble and cognizant of

1087
00:52:48,796 --> 00:52:51,636
Speaker 3: other people just because of watching how he handles and

1088
00:52:51,676 --> 00:52:54,716
Speaker 3: he has handled situations. I go, oh, you know, I

1089
00:52:54,716 --> 00:52:56,716
Speaker 3: could be probably a little bit less of an asshole

1090
00:52:56,716 --> 00:52:58,076
Speaker 3: if I tried, you know.

1091
00:52:59,516 --> 00:53:04,316
Speaker 2: So, you know, I mean, he's being honest the first

1092
00:53:04,356 --> 00:53:07,716
Speaker 2: of all. Like I said, he's the most responsible for

1093
00:53:07,756 --> 00:53:11,476
Speaker 2: the book even being a book, you know. But I

1094
00:53:11,796 --> 00:53:15,356
Speaker 2: it was wonderful because we had like six hundred pages

1095
00:53:15,396 --> 00:53:18,756
Speaker 2: of just transcript before we started actually writing the book.

1096
00:53:19,516 --> 00:53:21,076
Speaker 2: Maybe not that much, but we had a lot of

1097
00:53:21,076 --> 00:53:21,836
Speaker 2: clubs pages.

1098
00:53:22,316 --> 00:53:24,716
Speaker 1: Did you have to do much extra curricular work outside

1099
00:53:24,716 --> 00:53:26,676
Speaker 1: of the interviews with Michael just to sort.

1100
00:53:26,436 --> 00:53:28,196
Speaker 3: Of the laziest guy that way?

1101
00:53:28,436 --> 00:53:33,036
Speaker 2: No, no, no, he did a lot, and and really for me,

1102
00:53:33,356 --> 00:53:35,956
Speaker 2: that was the real education for me was to see

1103
00:53:36,396 --> 00:53:39,876
Speaker 2: Paul's genuine interest in other people. I think it has

1104
00:53:39,876 --> 00:53:41,276
Speaker 2: a lot to do with what he does for a

1105
00:53:41,276 --> 00:53:43,916
Speaker 2: living too, being an actor and a writer, you know,

1106
00:53:44,316 --> 00:53:49,196
Speaker 2: but his acumen or his capacity to build a story

1107
00:53:49,356 --> 00:53:52,156
Speaker 2: was really what I benefited from so much. You know,

1108
00:53:53,236 --> 00:53:58,756
Speaker 2: he saw threads and interesting points of reference in the

1109
00:53:58,836 --> 00:54:02,076
Speaker 2: stories like a writer would, like a professional writer would,

1110
00:54:02,276 --> 00:54:05,396
Speaker 2: and it was a revelation to me in many cases,

1111
00:54:05,436 --> 00:54:06,476
Speaker 2: you know, you know, but.

1112
00:54:06,476 --> 00:54:08,756
Speaker 3: Just hearing the stories and then put looking at them

1113
00:54:08,756 --> 00:54:12,716
Speaker 3: all together, which is not something any of us do regularly, right,

1114
00:54:12,756 --> 00:54:15,156
Speaker 3: We don't recite our life. We don't look for necessarily

1115
00:54:15,196 --> 00:54:17,236
Speaker 3: for themes. But when you see it in the stack

1116
00:54:17,236 --> 00:54:20,516
Speaker 3: of pages, you go, huh, this is a similar you know.

1117
00:54:20,716 --> 00:54:24,316
Speaker 3: There's a funny story Mike first band, the first job

1118
00:54:24,316 --> 00:54:27,396
Speaker 3: they ever had, playing for the women's pta group, and

1119
00:54:27,476 --> 00:54:30,436
Speaker 3: they play their five songs and the priest comes up

1120
00:54:30,436 --> 00:54:32,556
Speaker 3: and goes, oh, thank you boys, that was lovely. And Michael, no,

1121
00:54:32,596 --> 00:54:35,156
Speaker 3: we have a whole other set and his answer is

1122
00:54:35,516 --> 00:54:38,196
Speaker 3: that won't be necessary. I thought, well, that's the greatest

1123
00:54:38,196 --> 00:54:40,956
Speaker 3: first review. Whatever dear won't be needed here.

1124
00:54:40,876 --> 00:54:41,276
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1125
00:54:41,516 --> 00:54:42,996
Speaker 3: But then as the story went on, there were like

1126
00:54:42,996 --> 00:54:46,196
Speaker 3: three other stories. They're like that kept coming back. You know,

1127
00:54:46,276 --> 00:54:48,516
Speaker 3: we've all had that place where like you're not really

1128
00:54:48,556 --> 00:54:51,356
Speaker 3: wanted here, which you know, we get Every actor and

1129
00:54:51,476 --> 00:54:54,556
Speaker 3: musician gets more than their share of everything that I

1130
00:54:54,636 --> 00:54:57,596
Speaker 3: had hoped the book would do has done. It makes

1131
00:54:57,636 --> 00:55:00,556
Speaker 3: sense of this connects the dots and we see the stories,

1132
00:55:00,876 --> 00:55:03,796
Speaker 3: the arc of how the five year old kid who

1133
00:55:03,796 --> 00:55:06,316
Speaker 3: sang in a saloon with his dad becomes the Michael

1134
00:55:06,396 --> 00:55:07,276
Speaker 3: McDonald of today.

1135
00:55:08,196 --> 00:55:13,156
Speaker 2: To see that that random things and seemingly unimportant moments

1136
00:55:13,956 --> 00:55:17,716
Speaker 2: sometimes become the things that shape us the most, you know,

1137
00:55:18,636 --> 00:55:22,076
Speaker 2: more than any plans we have or great designs.

1138
00:55:21,756 --> 00:55:23,996
Speaker 3: Like me going to that party where you were playing pianos.

1139
00:55:25,036 --> 00:55:25,996
Speaker 3: I didn't see that coming.

1140
00:55:26,356 --> 00:55:30,156
Speaker 2: No, in my life as a as a script was

1141
00:55:30,516 --> 00:55:33,276
Speaker 2: certainly not one that I wrote. You. Yeah, and I think,

1142
00:55:33,516 --> 00:55:35,876
Speaker 2: but I think for most people that's not uncommon.

1143
00:55:35,996 --> 00:55:38,476
Speaker 1: Was it frustrating to see your life to see it written?

1144
00:55:38,476 --> 00:55:41,876
Speaker 1: Did anything feel avoidable that happened?

1145
00:55:42,276 --> 00:55:44,556
Speaker 2: I don't really think in those terms anymore, you know,

1146
00:55:44,676 --> 00:55:48,116
Speaker 2: Like I used to regret, have a lot of regrets,

1147
00:55:48,516 --> 00:55:52,756
Speaker 2: you know, And certainly there are some things I wish

1148
00:55:52,996 --> 00:55:55,996
Speaker 2: I could read live and redo and you know, wish

1149
00:55:56,076 --> 00:55:58,796
Speaker 2: I never had done or whatever that may or may

1150
00:55:58,836 --> 00:56:02,236
Speaker 2: not be in the book. But I've come to reconcile

1151
00:56:02,316 --> 00:56:06,756
Speaker 2: with myself the fact that what I know about myself

1152
00:56:06,796 --> 00:56:10,596
Speaker 2: and my life and for better or ward, is all

1153
00:56:10,636 --> 00:56:13,956
Speaker 2: a product of every one of those things that happened,

1154
00:56:14,836 --> 00:56:17,076
Speaker 2: and that some of the worst things trying out to

1155
00:56:17,116 --> 00:56:18,796
Speaker 2: be the best things that ever happened to me. You

1156
00:56:18,796 --> 00:56:22,036
Speaker 2: hear people all the time go, you know, prison changed

1157
00:56:22,036 --> 00:56:24,356
Speaker 2: my life for the better. You know, I'm grateful that

1158
00:56:24,396 --> 00:56:26,596
Speaker 2: I went to prison. I'm sure they weren't at the time,

1159
00:56:26,756 --> 00:56:30,636
Speaker 2: you know, but in hindsight you see things differently, you know,

1160
00:56:30,756 --> 00:56:33,516
Speaker 2: And in many ways, this book for me was that

1161
00:56:33,636 --> 00:56:36,156
Speaker 2: kind of revelation of looking back and realizing that some

1162
00:56:36,236 --> 00:56:38,356
Speaker 2: of the people I resented the most that I really

1163
00:56:38,436 --> 00:56:43,716
Speaker 2: felt righteous, you know, resentment for who I felt took

1164
00:56:43,716 --> 00:56:46,036
Speaker 2: advantage of me or whatever in some way or another.

1165
00:56:46,796 --> 00:56:48,956
Speaker 2: With a little bit of time and space, I realized

1166
00:56:48,956 --> 00:56:52,756
Speaker 2: that those really are actually the very people that, without

1167
00:56:52,796 --> 00:56:56,836
Speaker 2: whom I would probably still be back in Missouri, you know,

1168
00:56:57,676 --> 00:56:59,636
Speaker 2: lived out my life in Missouri. They were the people

1169
00:56:59,676 --> 00:57:02,476
Speaker 2: that got me to California. They were the people that

1170
00:57:03,196 --> 00:57:05,676
Speaker 2: allowed me to walk through the door I walked through

1171
00:57:05,716 --> 00:57:08,316
Speaker 2: with them with her, and I felt I had every

1172
00:57:08,356 --> 00:57:11,396
Speaker 2: reason to be agree with them over something to do

1173
00:57:11,476 --> 00:57:16,036
Speaker 2: with our relationship, but more importantly, the opportunity they gave

1174
00:57:16,116 --> 00:57:19,236
Speaker 2: me just by way of you know, not saying any

1175
00:57:19,276 --> 00:57:22,236
Speaker 2: you know, get rid of this guy. You know, they

1176
00:57:22,316 --> 00:57:24,556
Speaker 2: did more for me than they ever did to me.

1177
00:57:24,636 --> 00:57:27,596
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, Paul In the acknowledgments, you mentioned

1178
00:57:27,596 --> 00:57:31,436
Speaker 1: that your son helped transcribe the interviews. Yeah, how was

1179
00:57:31,476 --> 00:57:34,356
Speaker 1: it working with your son on Michael's project in particular?

1180
00:57:34,556 --> 00:57:36,676
Speaker 3: Well, it was you know, it was COVID and he

1181
00:57:36,836 --> 00:57:39,796
Speaker 3: locked down and I said, you need something to do.

1182
00:57:40,236 --> 00:57:41,876
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you a job, and I'm going

1183
00:57:41,916 --> 00:57:44,636
Speaker 3: to give you a child labor's wages. I said, you

1184
00:57:44,676 --> 00:57:46,996
Speaker 3: take this, but you got to type it out. So

1185
00:57:47,076 --> 00:57:50,036
Speaker 3: subconsciously I think, I want, like, do you understand who

1186
00:57:50,076 --> 00:57:52,836
Speaker 3: Michael is? Do you understand who he's played with? And

1187
00:57:52,916 --> 00:57:56,876
Speaker 3: so I was sort of subliminally leaving crumbs for him

1188
00:57:56,916 --> 00:57:58,996
Speaker 3: to learn about. I didn't know James Taylor or I

1189
00:57:58,996 --> 00:58:01,676
Speaker 3: didn't know Bonny. I remember one of the transcripts, whether

1190
00:58:01,676 --> 00:58:04,316
Speaker 3: by accident or not, he misspelled John Lennon's name, and

1191
00:58:04,356 --> 00:58:07,636
Speaker 3: I went, listen, you can't be my son and misspelled

1192
00:58:07,676 --> 00:58:10,716
Speaker 3: John Lennon. That can't happen, or like there would be

1193
00:58:10,756 --> 00:58:15,196
Speaker 3: Coldport or somebody or or or Stephen Sondheim and watching

1194
00:58:15,236 --> 00:58:18,236
Speaker 3: him try and spell that, I'm going, Yeah, learned. Some

1195
00:58:18,316 --> 00:58:20,596
Speaker 3: words are some big words you should learn.

1196
00:58:21,116 --> 00:58:23,836
Speaker 2: Maybe your kid write about some artists from the seventies.

1197
00:58:23,836 --> 00:58:26,476
Speaker 2: That's child abuse. I think, yeah, sure, but.

1198
00:58:26,476 --> 00:58:28,956
Speaker 3: You know those stories too, you know I was. I

1199
00:58:29,076 --> 00:58:32,476
Speaker 3: was tickled, and I knew other people would be too.

1200
00:58:32,796 --> 00:58:35,476
Speaker 3: When Mike shared his stories about how his kids are

1201
00:58:35,516 --> 00:58:38,636
Speaker 3: not impressed with his celebrity or his music, like you

1202
00:58:38,676 --> 00:58:40,796
Speaker 3: know you I've heard that so many times with so

1203
00:58:40,796 --> 00:58:44,236
Speaker 3: many other Springsteen talking about his kids maybe no two

1204
00:58:44,276 --> 00:58:46,956
Speaker 3: of his songs and how can that be? It's like,

1205
00:58:46,956 --> 00:58:49,076
Speaker 3: because they're your kids and they just don't give a shit,

1206
00:58:49,396 --> 00:58:52,956
Speaker 3: because that's just so. I found that very heartwarming and

1207
00:58:53,076 --> 00:58:53,796
Speaker 3: u comforting.

1208
00:58:54,516 --> 00:58:57,596
Speaker 1: You referenced earlier, Paul, before I started recording that We

1209
00:58:57,636 --> 00:58:59,916
Speaker 1: Are the World documentary that just came on our Netflix.

1210
00:59:00,156 --> 00:59:01,876
Speaker 1: It would have been incredible if you were on. I

1211
00:59:01,876 --> 00:59:04,196
Speaker 1: mean it was a great tune as it was, but

1212
00:59:04,356 --> 00:59:06,476
Speaker 1: your voice on that would have been amazing, taking it

1213
00:59:06,516 --> 00:59:09,476
Speaker 1: another notch up. And as I was reading the book

1214
00:59:10,036 --> 00:59:12,396
Speaker 1: and Quincy was supposed to do produce your second solo

1215
00:59:12,476 --> 00:59:16,636
Speaker 1: album and then there was a misunderstanding that ultimately resolved

1216
00:59:16,676 --> 00:59:18,796
Speaker 1: or whatnot. But is that kind of why you weren't

1217
00:59:18,796 --> 00:59:20,556
Speaker 1: a part of that or do you not even know?

1218
00:59:20,356 --> 00:59:22,556
Speaker 2: You No, I think there was just you know, you

1219
00:59:22,556 --> 00:59:24,756
Speaker 2: can only have so many people doing something like that.

1220
00:59:24,756 --> 00:59:26,276
Speaker 2: I mean, it was huge as it was, you know,

1221
00:59:27,036 --> 00:59:28,916
Speaker 2: but I think, yeah, it was one of those moments

1222
00:59:28,956 --> 00:59:31,756
Speaker 2: where Quincy made the whole music business look good, you know,

1223
00:59:32,316 --> 00:59:35,156
Speaker 2: and Michael too, you know. They it was a very

1224
00:59:35,196 --> 00:59:37,956
Speaker 2: noble thing that they did, you know. Yeah, not that

1225
00:59:37,996 --> 00:59:40,196
Speaker 2: I didn't sit around wondering why I wasn't called either,

1226
00:59:40,236 --> 00:59:43,596
Speaker 2: but I you know, yeah, oh sure, yeah, me and

1227
00:59:43,636 --> 00:59:45,916
Speaker 2: a few other people were gosh, we did get the

1228
00:59:45,916 --> 00:59:46,636
Speaker 2: call on that one.

1229
00:59:46,676 --> 00:59:46,836
Speaker 3: You know.

1230
00:59:47,236 --> 00:59:48,756
Speaker 1: Do you remember hearing about it at the time.

1231
00:59:49,116 --> 00:59:51,076
Speaker 2: No, I think I just saw it, you know, when

1232
00:59:51,076 --> 00:59:52,076
Speaker 2: it came out on MTV.

1233
00:59:52,236 --> 00:59:54,956
Speaker 1: But it was great, a missed opportunity that you wanted.

1234
00:59:54,956 --> 00:59:57,636
Speaker 3: I never knew for us. The other think wheal and

1235
00:59:57,716 --> 01:00:00,876
Speaker 3: Jennings walking out, I never knew because and begin I go, gee,

1236
01:00:00,876 --> 01:00:02,316
Speaker 3: I don't remember him being in there. It's like he

1237
01:00:02,436 --> 01:00:04,996
Speaker 3: wasn't because was it Lionel or Stevie wonder who.

1238
01:00:04,956 --> 01:00:07,556
Speaker 1: TV wants to say, let's throw some putting some I.

1239
01:00:07,516 --> 01:00:09,516
Speaker 3: Don't even know it was real SWAHELI or just it's

1240
01:00:09,516 --> 01:00:14,036
Speaker 3: why he sounding, you know, oh really? And and Whalen

1241
01:00:14,116 --> 01:00:16,756
Speaker 3: Jenner's walk down goes yeah, no.

1242
01:00:16,516 --> 01:00:18,316
Speaker 1: Good old no, good old boy everything. That's why he

1243
01:00:18,556 --> 01:00:19,076
Speaker 1: good old boy.

1244
01:00:19,116 --> 01:00:21,596
Speaker 3: Canna be saying why because he's.

1245
01:00:21,476 --> 01:00:23,196
Speaker 1: Wearing like a ten gallon hot or you know, a

1246
01:00:23,236 --> 01:00:25,996
Speaker 1: big cowboy hat and you see him walking down off

1247
01:00:26,036 --> 01:00:28,316
Speaker 1: the bleachers and at some point you just see a cowboy.

1248
01:00:29,516 --> 01:00:31,316
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and he's gone.

1249
01:00:31,516 --> 01:00:35,356
Speaker 3: But you know what, to to Quincy's credit, like, oh,

1250
01:00:35,396 --> 01:00:37,876
Speaker 3: that Willie Nelson was on it was genius. It's like

1251
01:00:37,956 --> 01:00:38,796
Speaker 3: and perfect.

1252
01:00:38,996 --> 01:00:40,836
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have heard and I would

1253
01:00:40,836 --> 01:00:44,596
Speaker 1: have loved to have heard Michael quincy solo album. I

1254
01:00:44,596 --> 01:00:46,236
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that was in the when I read that.

1255
01:00:46,356 --> 01:00:49,076
Speaker 1: It was, yeah, that was in the cards.

1256
01:00:49,116 --> 01:00:51,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, no, I know I was. I guess I

1257
01:00:51,356 --> 01:00:53,236
Speaker 2: only have myself to blame on that one. I I

1258
01:00:53,276 --> 01:00:57,196
Speaker 2: think it was just a bunch of miscommunication, and uh,

1259
01:00:58,116 --> 01:01:00,076
Speaker 2: you know, I always felt like it was a missed

1260
01:01:00,116 --> 01:01:01,476
Speaker 2: up tune. I would have loved to have done that

1261
01:01:01,556 --> 01:01:03,716
Speaker 2: record with Quincy and and Bruce Swudine.

1262
01:01:04,076 --> 01:01:05,396
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Bruce too.

1263
01:01:05,436 --> 01:01:07,396
Speaker 2: But I'm grateful for the chance I did get to

1264
01:01:07,436 --> 01:01:11,676
Speaker 2: record with Quincy. It was amazing and Bruce because they

1265
01:01:11,716 --> 01:01:14,876
Speaker 2: were such a team, you know, and Quincy was, you know,

1266
01:01:14,916 --> 01:01:17,236
Speaker 2: really the genius behind the music part of it all.

1267
01:01:17,316 --> 01:01:20,356
Speaker 2: But what was amazing, was they never wasted any time

1268
01:01:20,436 --> 01:01:22,436
Speaker 2: getting right to the heart of the matter. You know,

1269
01:01:23,156 --> 01:01:25,036
Speaker 2: I was so in the seventies. I was so used

1270
01:01:25,036 --> 01:01:27,076
Speaker 2: to doing these dates where they'd sit there and hit

1271
01:01:27,116 --> 01:01:30,756
Speaker 2: the snare drum for like literally three hours. So by

1272
01:01:30,796 --> 01:01:32,596
Speaker 2: the time they got the sound they wanted, they would

1273
01:01:32,636 --> 01:01:35,076
Speaker 2: have to change the head anyway from hitting it for

1274
01:01:35,076 --> 01:01:38,756
Speaker 2: two hours. But it was just like sessions just took

1275
01:01:38,796 --> 01:01:42,156
Speaker 2: forever to get started, and you know, nobody seemed to

1276
01:01:42,276 --> 01:01:45,676
Speaker 2: quite know where the mojo was. And you know, with

1277
01:01:45,796 --> 01:01:48,236
Speaker 2: Quincy and Bruce, it was like, I picked this mic

1278
01:01:48,316 --> 01:01:50,116
Speaker 2: for you. I've never met you in my life, but

1279
01:01:50,156 --> 01:01:52,156
Speaker 2: I picked this mic for you. I've heard your voice.

1280
01:01:52,516 --> 01:01:54,196
Speaker 2: I kind of know what you need to sing into,

1281
01:01:54,276 --> 01:01:56,676
Speaker 2: you know, And he was dead on, you know, I

1282
01:01:56,716 --> 01:01:58,196
Speaker 2: got one other one. I'm gonna try it now that

1283
01:01:58,516 --> 01:02:01,516
Speaker 2: that was the right one, and you know, and Quincy

1284
01:02:01,636 --> 01:02:04,036
Speaker 2: was like, you know, from the musical aspect of it,

1285
01:02:04,076 --> 01:02:07,316
Speaker 2: was like he knew exactly where this should go before

1286
01:02:07,356 --> 01:02:10,716
Speaker 2: we played a note. You know. It was just, you know,

1287
01:02:11,036 --> 01:02:14,796
Speaker 2: really an education to work with those guys. They they

1288
01:02:14,876 --> 01:02:17,476
Speaker 2: to me kind of encapsulated that I walk in the

1289
01:02:17,476 --> 01:02:20,116
Speaker 2: studio because I know why I'm here. I don't walk

1290
01:02:20,156 --> 01:02:22,396
Speaker 2: in the studio and wonder who's going to give me

1291
01:02:22,836 --> 01:02:24,836
Speaker 2: the idea of where we're going here? You know. It's

1292
01:02:25,636 --> 01:02:26,996
Speaker 2: and I used to work for a lot of producers

1293
01:02:27,036 --> 01:02:29,156
Speaker 2: who were like that was like they thought that I

1294
01:02:29,236 --> 01:02:31,956
Speaker 2: was gonna you know, I would come up with the

1295
01:02:31,996 --> 01:02:33,916
Speaker 2: background parts that they wanted to hear where they weren't

1296
01:02:33,956 --> 01:02:36,116
Speaker 2: they sure what that was yet, because they were kind

1297
01:02:36,116 --> 01:02:38,476
Speaker 2: of relying on me to, you know, come up with

1298
01:02:38,516 --> 01:02:41,316
Speaker 2: it or something. And you know, that was another thread

1299
01:02:41,316 --> 01:02:45,756
Speaker 2: in my whole story, was that dysfunctional defect that I

1300
01:02:45,836 --> 01:02:49,516
Speaker 2: was famous for letting someone else do what I knew

1301
01:02:49,556 --> 01:02:52,836
Speaker 2: I should be doing myself and then being pissed off

1302
01:02:52,836 --> 01:02:55,316
Speaker 2: at them for not doing it right later, you know.

1303
01:02:55,356 --> 01:02:58,116
Speaker 2: I mean that was my m O, you know, for

1304
01:02:58,196 --> 01:03:00,916
Speaker 2: many years, and probably still is. But I you know,

1305
01:03:00,916 --> 01:03:03,596
Speaker 2: I try to catch myself in the act at this age,

1306
01:03:03,596 --> 01:03:05,516
Speaker 2: you know, because life's too short. You know.

1307
01:03:05,876 --> 01:03:07,956
Speaker 1: Well, I'm still I'm just really grateful for the honesty.

1308
01:03:07,956 --> 01:03:10,836
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I mean, thank you for incredible stuff

1309
01:03:10,836 --> 01:03:11,596
Speaker 1: and talking to us.

1310
01:03:11,796 --> 01:03:12,596
Speaker 3: Glad you enjoyed it.

1311
01:03:12,876 --> 01:03:17,916
Speaker 1: H thank you, Thank you man. Thanks to Michael McDonald

1312
01:03:17,996 --> 01:03:20,756
Speaker 1: and Paul Riser. For talking about the process behind writing

1313
01:03:20,796 --> 01:03:23,396
Speaker 1: their book, What a Fool Believes. You can hear a

1314
01:03:23,396 --> 01:03:25,836
Speaker 1: list of all of our favorite songs featuring Michael McDonald

1315
01:03:25,876 --> 01:03:29,836
Speaker 1: on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe

1316
01:03:29,836 --> 01:03:32,436
Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken

1317
01:03:32,436 --> 01:03:35,276
Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes.

1318
01:03:36,396 --> 01:03:39,556
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

1319
01:03:39,596 --> 01:03:42,676
Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing

1320
01:03:42,716 --> 01:03:45,996
Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is

1321
01:03:46,036 --> 01:03:50,276
Speaker 1: Ben Tollinday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

1322
01:03:50,676 --> 01:03:53,476
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1323
01:03:53,516 --> 01:03:57,876
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1324
01:03:57,956 --> 01:04:00,756
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1325
01:04:00,876 --> 01:04:04,156
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1326
01:04:04,196 --> 01:04:08,156
Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, please remember

1327
01:04:08,196 --> 01:04:10,636
Speaker 1: to share rate from view us on your podcast. Apt

1328
01:04:11,036 --> 01:04:13,796
Speaker 1: are the Music's by any Beats. I'm justin Richmond.