WEBVTT - Superintendent Series: Devon Carroll on Women in Turf

0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:04.360
<v Speaker 1>The Friday Egg Superintendent series is brought to you by Toro.

0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Among the countless reasons why we go to the course,

0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.360
<v Speaker 1>communing with Mother Nature, sits near the top of mosless

0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and the company most trusted to responsibly maintain our golf environments,

0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Toro continues to lead the way. Its line of all

0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.360
<v Speaker 1>electric and hybrid mowers and vehicles do their jobs as

0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.200
<v Speaker 1>well as ever better. Actually, because while their precision, power,

0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.680
<v Speaker 1>reliability and comfort remain the same, this new breed reduces

0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:37.080
<v Speaker 1>engine exhaust emissions, noise pollution, and increases efficiency and ease

0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.600
<v Speaker 1>of maintenance. If only our golf swings were that productive

0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.280
<v Speaker 1>and sustainable. Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach

0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.120
<v Speaker 1>out to your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo.

0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.639
<v Speaker 2>I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset when

0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.760
<v Speaker 2>I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.800
<v Speaker 2>And when I find my ball in a fried egg

0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Frida egg, the dread and Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida

0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.520
<v Speaker 2>egg egg Frida egg bride egg lie about ready to

0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:01.480
<v Speaker 2>run off of the hub.

0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.480
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Podcast in

0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:26.400
<v Speaker 1>our Superintendent series. Today, I am joined by Devin Carroll.

0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.880
<v Speaker 1>She is a PhD student at the University Tennessee and

0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.600
<v Speaker 1>their turf Weed Science program, and Devin came on to

0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:41.399
<v Speaker 1>talk about a paper that she wrote recently during her studies.

0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.920
<v Speaker 1>It is Women in Turf, a qualitative study examining how

0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.600
<v Speaker 1>women have sustained their leadership role in the turf grass industry.

0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.080
<v Speaker 1>So I thought this would be a very interesting topic

0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.840
<v Speaker 1>given turf's you know what, Turf's biggest challenges is labor

0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.520
<v Speaker 1>and a shortage and label or labor and talking about

0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.720
<v Speaker 1>women in turf. So Devin was a great guest. Thank

0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.359
<v Speaker 1>you so much for her coming on, and I hope

0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:15.600
<v Speaker 1>you guys enjoyed this episode. All right, Devin, thanks for

0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.120
<v Speaker 1>coming on. I love to hear a little bit about

0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:23.000
<v Speaker 1>yourself and what you're doing these days and how you

0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:23.880
<v Speaker 1>got into turf.

0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.200
<v Speaker 2>Sure. So, I'm originally from Pennsylvania. I played golf on

0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.320
<v Speaker 2>my high school golf team, and my cousin's a golf

0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.560
<v Speaker 2>course superintendent. So when it came time for me to

0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.160
<v Speaker 2>pick what to do for college, I thought, Hey, I

0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.520
<v Speaker 2>love the golf course. Being a superintendent sounds great. So

0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I went to Penn State. I got an undergraduate degree

0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Bachelor of Science and turf grass science, stayed down at

0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:48.240
<v Speaker 2>penn State in a research capacity, got a master's degree

0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.519
<v Speaker 2>in turf and then now I'm at the University of

0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Tennessee working on a PhD in turf grass weed science.

0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.120
<v Speaker 2>And while I was there, actually got a second master's

0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:59.799
<v Speaker 2>degree in Agricultural Leadership, Education and Communications. And that was

0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.240
<v Speaker 2>a really cool degree because I focused my research on

0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.639
<v Speaker 2>women in turf grass, which is my two favorite things

0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:05.160
<v Speaker 2>put together.

0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.120
<v Speaker 1>That's that's great. I mean, you're just stacking degrees left

0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>and right. What So your cousin was a superintendent? Was

0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:18.920
<v Speaker 1>it in the Pennsylvania area? And and did you you

0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.440
<v Speaker 1>know what attracted you about what they did?

0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So he's a golf course superintendent for the scrant

0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.640
<v Speaker 2>And Canoe Club right outside of scrant in Pennsylvania. And

0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.240
<v Speaker 2>he just loved being outside. And I know one of

0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.200
<v Speaker 2>the things for him that was always important was at

0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day when he left the course,

0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:37.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, he could see what he did, he could

0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.560
<v Speaker 2>see the improvements that his crew made, he could see

0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:42.600
<v Speaker 2>the golfers out there enjoying the work that they did,

0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.320
<v Speaker 2>and he found that really rewarding. And I also kind

0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>of like that hands on type of work and knowing

0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.640
<v Speaker 2>that I'm doing something to help other people enjoy their

0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:51.320
<v Speaker 2>lives as well.

0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:54.560
<v Speaker 1>It's something I always think about with with the turf

0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.640
<v Speaker 1>industry is you know, I worked for startups before I

0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.120
<v Speaker 1>started this, and you know, one of the things with

0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.600
<v Speaker 1>entrepreneurship and working in like a small company, small growing

0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.000
<v Speaker 1>company is like the benefits of it. You just feel

0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.200
<v Speaker 1>such satisfaction every day because, like you when you're at

0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.880
<v Speaker 1>a certain stage, like everything you do matters so much

0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.600
<v Speaker 1>for the for the company's success. And I think that's

0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.800
<v Speaker 1>so similar with with turf because like you see, just

0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:24.799
<v Speaker 1>incremental improvement and and different things that you do leads

0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.839
<v Speaker 1>to you know, success to other places, and it's really

0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.080
<v Speaker 1>a rewarding feeling at the end of the day.

0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, and I think a lot of people

0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:34.839
<v Speaker 2>in the industry share that same sentiment and that's a

0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:36.480
<v Speaker 2>lot of times what gets people into it.

0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.000
<v Speaker 1>So what where have you worked in the in the

0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.159
<v Speaker 1>turf industry? I think you you've worked at Scranton country

0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Club I saw, and what what other hands on experience

0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.080
<v Speaker 1>have you had?

0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I did my official internship at the Country

0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Club of Scranton I also did an unofficial internship with

0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:57.279
<v Speaker 2>the Scranton and Wolfsparre Reial Riders. They're the Tripa, a

0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.840
<v Speaker 2>baseball team for the New York Yankees. And then I've

0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:03.600
<v Speaker 2>been very privileged to have worked four Masters tournaments, so

0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.760
<v Speaker 2>I have set food on hallowed grounds. There.

0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.800
<v Speaker 1>You got any any story? What's your favorite story from

0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:11.520
<v Speaker 1>the Masters?

0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Gosh, if you that you could tell, you know, I

0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.400
<v Speaker 1>know there's who knows, you know a lot of stuff

0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.400
<v Speaker 1>under lock key, But is there one when you think

0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.120
<v Speaker 1>back to your time? Is there one that stands out?

0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Uh? Definitely the year that Tiger won. I mean the

0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.640
<v Speaker 2>energy on the course, you could just feel it. And

0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.800
<v Speaker 2>we all came into work early that morning, rare in

0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.800
<v Speaker 2>to go because we all just knew it was gonna

0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.360
<v Speaker 2>be an amazing day. And that's just a moment I'll

0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:35.920
<v Speaker 2>never forget.

0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that that's so cool. How like, what are the

0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.960
<v Speaker 1>hours like for doing the turf there? I imagine it's

0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.400
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of wild, a wild week where you're you're

0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.720
<v Speaker 1>doing stuff at night and in the morning. Like, how

0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:49.039
<v Speaker 1>does that?

0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's a really long week. We get in

0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.440
<v Speaker 2>early and stay really late, but you know it takes

0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.159
<v Speaker 2>a lot to have the grounds look the way that

0:05:58.200 --> 0:05:58.560
<v Speaker 2>they do.

0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:04.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that place, above anything else, like the presentation is

0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.280
<v Speaker 1>at a whole different level. I you know, Country Club

0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.840
<v Speaker 1>of Scranton is one of the places I probably most

0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.040
<v Speaker 1>want to see this year. I still kick myself. One

0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.800
<v Speaker 1>of my buddies got buried in Wilkes Barre and we

0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.560
<v Speaker 1>were there and I just, you know, I was with

0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:22.080
<v Speaker 1>my wife and I just didn't really have that much time.

0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.880
<v Speaker 1>It was, you know, what, it's your friend's wedding, you

0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of have to you know, if it was her

0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.800
<v Speaker 1>friend's wedding, I might have you know, departed, but I

0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:31.680
<v Speaker 1>couldn't leave her.

0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Alone, you know, some obligations.

0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.919
<v Speaker 1>What tell us a little bit about that property and

0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.640
<v Speaker 1>what you what you learned, what was what was cool

0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:40.720
<v Speaker 1>about that experience?

0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really loved working there. It's a technically a

0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven whole course, so they've got eighteen holes that

0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.480
<v Speaker 2>are kind of a link style, and then they've got

0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.599
<v Speaker 2>a nine smaller nine hole course. So that was a

0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.559
<v Speaker 2>really great experience as an intern. The nine hole course

0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.600
<v Speaker 2>is certainly very well kept, but because it's not the

0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:00.599
<v Speaker 2>forefront of the club, it definitely give me more of

0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.039
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity to get on a spray er, get on

0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:04.560
<v Speaker 2>some of the equipment, and that was more of a

0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.080
<v Speaker 2>place for me to test some things out. But the

0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:08.480
<v Speaker 2>way that they've got it set up there with the

0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.920
<v Speaker 2>link style, I mean, when that fescue starts getting that

0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.280
<v Speaker 2>purple golden hue, it's really an amazing place. It's something

0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:14.840
<v Speaker 2>to see.

0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Travis greens are the thing. They got to be,

0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:23.320
<v Speaker 1>like Travis course unique to mow those greens with how

0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:24.800
<v Speaker 1>sharp the undulations are.

0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Some of them are really tough. I think it's number

0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.520
<v Speaker 2>seven if I recall correctly to has a really steep

0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.320
<v Speaker 2>bunker face. And if you've got a walk mower, yeah,

0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.640
<v Speaker 2>you really have to be watching how you're negotiating some

0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:36.360
<v Speaker 2>of those turns.

0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.440
<v Speaker 1>So could you give us that you know, in your

0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:46.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, early early experiences as as a woman in

0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.480
<v Speaker 1>the turf industry, how's it been.

0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Sure? So it was a little bit overwhelming at first.

0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.960
<v Speaker 2>When I started my undergraduate career, Penn State told me

0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.120
<v Speaker 2>that they hadn't had a woman in the program for

0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.720
<v Speaker 2>a while. But you know, being a female golfer kind

0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.440
<v Speaker 2>of you to do in my own thing. But I

0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:03.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't really realize what that meant until I showed up

0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.280
<v Speaker 2>and you know, my first day classes, I'm the only

0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.240
<v Speaker 2>girl in the room and everyone's kind of looking at

0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.040
<v Speaker 2>me like did you find the right classroom? And one

0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.720
<v Speaker 2>of the moments that really sung in for me. Penn

0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.800
<v Speaker 2>State is one of the larger state turf grass conferences.

0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.560
<v Speaker 2>Each year. There's about three hundred attendees. And at one

0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.000
<v Speaker 2>point I'm sitting in the middle of the room and

0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I look around and I kid you not, I'm the

0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.080
<v Speaker 2>only woman in the room, and that's when it kind

0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.000
<v Speaker 2>of just hit me, like, wow, this is different. So overall,

0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I had a positive experience, but you know, there's definitely

0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.360
<v Speaker 2>some challenges. People always want to know your story, kind

0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.439
<v Speaker 2>of a novelty a lot of times, which could be overwhelming.

0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.120
<v Speaker 1>In a way, you know, just because of the amount

0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.360
<v Speaker 1>you feel different, whether or not, like you're all there

0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.600
<v Speaker 1>for the same thing, and you feel different just because

0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.320
<v Speaker 1>nobody else is there with you as another woman in

0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:52.000
<v Speaker 1>the class.

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I always say, I mean, it's great to

0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.680
<v Speaker 2>promote women in turf, but sometimes when people kind of

0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.520
<v Speaker 2>point out that a woman, I say, I mean, I'm

0:08:58.520 --> 0:08:59.520
<v Speaker 2>just a person in turf.

0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, exactly.

0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Grass doesn't know if a man or a woman's mowing it.

0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.079
<v Speaker 2>I just like Grass, and I'm taking care of it.

0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:08.640
<v Speaker 1>In your work experience, and we'll get to your your

0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:13.360
<v Speaker 1>paper and you know, and what it kind of uncovered.

0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.800
<v Speaker 1>But in your personal experience, did you see any issues

0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.480
<v Speaker 1>of gender that came up?

0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.200
<v Speaker 2>So I definitely had some issues with gender, But I

0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.200
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of times it's not what people expect.

0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't really see an issue with any sort of

0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.560
<v Speaker 2>physical limitations. And I think a lot of times there's

0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.760
<v Speaker 2>a perception that, you know, people maybe tell women they

0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.360
<v Speaker 2>can't do it. And at least for me, I think

0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.520
<v Speaker 2>it's a real positive. I never had someone tell me

0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't do it. But for me, one of the

0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.360
<v Speaker 2>big issues has just been kind of inappropriate conduct by others. Again,

0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.840
<v Speaker 2>it should be a professional setting. I'm here to work,

0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm here to learn that just some external commentary that

0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:52.679
<v Speaker 2>sometimes makes things really uncomfortable.

0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can, you know, it's just that's that's the

0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.280
<v Speaker 1>stuff that nobody wants to deal with it in a workplace, right.

0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Did you you know were there other women on staff

0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:09.840
<v Speaker 1>at you know, whether it be Augusta or at Country Scranton,

0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and if not, what was that like.

0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So my internship with the Scranton Wilkesbury rail Riders,

0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.240
<v Speaker 2>I was the first female ground screw member they had

0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:22.320
<v Speaker 2>ever had, so that was really unique. My boss was

0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.920
<v Speaker 2>really great. He always kind of pulled me aside and

0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.880
<v Speaker 2>just said like, look, I don't want to undermine your abilities,

0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.960
<v Speaker 2>but are you able to do this? And I appreciated that.

0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:31.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, he didn't make a big deal out of

0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.400
<v Speaker 2>me being different, but he always made sure you know

0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.120
<v Speaker 2>that I was okay. I was really lucky at Country

0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Club of Scranton. I think they had three other women

0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.040
<v Speaker 2>on the crew. They weren't in leadership roles. I mean,

0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.000
<v Speaker 2>they didn't have turf grass degrees, but it was really

0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.480
<v Speaker 2>refreshing just to have other women out there, you know,

0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Raken bunkers or whatever with me, and same thing with Augusta.

0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.400
<v Speaker 2>As far as the volunteer crew, it's definitely male dominated,

0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.880
<v Speaker 2>but there are other women, so I've never felt alone

0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:56.240
<v Speaker 2>at either one of those locations.

0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.400
<v Speaker 1>How was the you know, one of the things he

0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.160
<v Speaker 1>hit on is just like the communication. I imagine like

0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of managers in the turf industry are used

0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.280
<v Speaker 1>to only mail and like a lot of it's just

0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.559
<v Speaker 1>like learning to communicate, right.

0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, And he went out of his way even

0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.199
<v Speaker 2>with small stuff. He sent me an email and said, hey,

0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:21.360
<v Speaker 2>would you like female sized polos? Yes, I very much would.

0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:22.800
<v Speaker 2>But it meant a lot to me that, you know,

0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.480
<v Speaker 2>he just thought through smaller details to just try to

0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.400
<v Speaker 2>make me more comfortable. And instead of putting me in

0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.160
<v Speaker 2>some men's double XL polo that looked ridiculous, you know,

0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:32.520
<v Speaker 2>he got the right thing to make me a part

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.600
<v Speaker 2>of the team and fit in and look like everyone else.

0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.760
<v Speaker 2>And that that really means a lot to me to

0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:38.559
<v Speaker 2>this day, how far he went to just make sure

0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:39.679
<v Speaker 2>I had a good experience.

0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Listeners of this show think of the turf industry like

0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.240
<v Speaker 1>as just golf, but like you eliminate here, you know,

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:49.520
<v Speaker 1>taking care of baseball fields are part of this. What

0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 1>what in total does the turf industry and compass, because

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 1>your paper and compass is more than just golf. What

0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 1>other industries that people would know are part of the

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:00.480
<v Speaker 1>turf industry tree?

0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Sure so golf is definitely the biggest one. Certainly the

0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.840
<v Speaker 2>highest percentage of people with turf degrees are working in golf.

0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.079
<v Speaker 2>But athletic field, both at the professional level as well

0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.280
<v Speaker 2>as collegiate, high school, municipal. We also have a lot

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.080
<v Speaker 2>of people who get turf degrees and go on to

0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.440
<v Speaker 2>run landscaping crews. They get into equipment sales, you know,

0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:24.360
<v Speaker 2>fertilizer sales, pesticide sales. There's also smaller things people don't

0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.880
<v Speaker 2>think of. Some turf grass managers will do, you know,

0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.120
<v Speaker 2>right of ways on highways. The airport that you fly

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.120
<v Speaker 2>into has a turf manager out there taking care of

0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 2>things the cemetery, so if you start ligging around, there's

0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.680
<v Speaker 2>a lot of grass and takes a lot of people

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:37.440
<v Speaker 2>to take care of it.

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's I think your paper has said, like the

0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:47.800
<v Speaker 1>fifth largest agri agricultural practice in the world, right yeah.

0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Right behind corn and cotton then some of the big crops.

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Turf grass is the fifth largest.

0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.439
<v Speaker 1>Personally, do you know, you know, when you finish your doctorate,

0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.000
<v Speaker 1>where your what your most interesting going into. Are you

0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.120
<v Speaker 1>looking to stay in academia, Are you looking to go

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 1>get into golf or you know, something else.

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.679
<v Speaker 2>So I'm leaning more toward the industry side, probably more

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.600
<v Speaker 2>in pesticide development. But we're very blessed right now there's

0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot of job opportunities in the golf and turf industry,

0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.680
<v Speaker 2>so definitely have a lot of options to weigh out.

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Were there times where you understood why women might not

0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 1>stick with the turf profession.

0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.679
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and there I'll just admit there's a couple of

0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.320
<v Speaker 2>times where I was kind of questioning, you know, is

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.439
<v Speaker 2>this right? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing.

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 2>There's times that gets really hard and you feel like, hey,

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.320
<v Speaker 2>it's easier to walk away and do something else. But

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 2>I've been really fortunate, you know that the whole women

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>in turf, it's a movement now is happening, and there's

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 2>more women slowly coming into the industry, so we're forming

0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 2>more of a support group. So I'm really hopeful, you know,

0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 2>for other women, incurrent women, that when they maybe have

0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>these moments of doubt, there's you know, more of a

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.439
<v Speaker 2>support group there to help them through, so that we're

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.480
<v Speaker 2>not losing people for reasons beyond their control.

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Toro. For

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 1>more than a century with cutting edge turf equipment and

0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 1>irrigation solutions, Toro has had your front nine covered and

0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.640
<v Speaker 1>your back nine two. In fact, Toro's always had your

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 1>back period. Toro is committed to your long term success

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 1>as tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>to top notch customer support from Toro and it's dedicated

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 1>local distributors, both of whom are passionate about delivering turf

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 1>equipment and irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow

0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 1>at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:50.200
<v Speaker 1>local Toro distributor today. Now back to Devin Carrol. Yeah,

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 1>it's it's Your paper is really well timed because I

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>think one of the biggest topics that I hear about

0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.440
<v Speaker 1>in traveling around the country is this labor short right,

0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and turf is a industry that's really facing tough labor

0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 1>issues with with you know, just the cost of living

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 1>going up. You know, it's going to increase the cost

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 1>of maintenance. And then there's a smaller and smaller pool

0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 1>of labor. And here, you know, you lay out like

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, women are very underrepresented in the turf industry,

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>and here is this another large pool of potential workers

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 1>that are available to the industry. So your paper is

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.800
<v Speaker 1>called Women in Turf, A qualitative study examining how women

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>have sustained their leadership role in the turf grass industry.

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Can you give listeners that haven't read it a kind

0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of a cliff notes version of what the study was

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and some of the may the key fightings from the study.

0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So, as you mentioned, a lot of superintendents right

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 2>now are reporting that the biggest issue facing them is labor.

0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.840
<v Speaker 2>So yes, there are other issues, you know, with water

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 2>supply or the supply chain, et cetera, but labor is

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 2>really time and again what we're hearing is a big problem.

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.120
<v Speaker 2>So if you look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics,

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>women make up fifty one percent of the US population,

0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.240
<v Speaker 2>but only about two to four percent of employees working

0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.240
<v Speaker 2>in turf. So to me, we're having a labor shortage,

0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>but we're not tapping into literally half of the population

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of able bodied workers. So I teamed up with a researcher,

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.160
<v Speaker 2>doctor Carrie Stevens at the University of Tennessee. She specializes

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>in women at leadership research, and we reached out to

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 2>thirteen women working in the turf bress industry as either

0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:42.040
<v Speaker 2>golf course superintendents, assistant superintendents, field managers, assistant field managers

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>actually from three different countries, and we interviewed them for

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 2>between thirty to ninety minutes and just tried to get

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.280
<v Speaker 2>a feel for what got them into the industry. You know,

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 2>what challenges have they faced, what do they think are

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 2>opportunities for women? Just so we could get a really

0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>global scope of what the barriers and opportunities for women are.

0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.240
<v Speaker 2>And I think we found some really interesting things that

0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>hopefully help with recruitment and retention in the future.

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, talk about some of those challenges. What are the

0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 1>unique challenges that are facing women in the turf industry.

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Sure, so the big one was family building, which I

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.400
<v Speaker 2>do want to note, you know, can also be really

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.120
<v Speaker 2>difficult for men in the industry. Working on a golf

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.480
<v Speaker 2>course in particular, requires you know, really long hours and

0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 2>it can be tough, especially in the summer. But women felt,

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.120
<v Speaker 2>in particular, you know, if you are trying to have children,

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.120
<v Speaker 2>it could be difficult as far as the labor that's involved,

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.320
<v Speaker 2>as well as you know, needing time off or maternity

0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 2>leave and whatnot. So building a family and having kind

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 2>of intimate relationships was also hard, even with their own

0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>family members. They felt like, you know, especially during the

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 2>peak season in the summer, it was just really hard

0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.480
<v Speaker 2>to have a relationship with anyone, you know, their relationship

0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 2>was with the golf course. So especially for some of

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 2>the younger women, they felt like it was difficult and

0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>they had to make sacrifices in that area.

0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.919
<v Speaker 1>Yes, something I hadn't really thought of when until I

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 1>read your paper about this is like, you know, in

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>a way, the golf course is almost like a human

0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 1>being in in the fact that it's living. So you know, yeah,

0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.679
<v Speaker 1>as as a superintendent, you are when you go to

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 1>the golf course, you're almost like taking care of a kid.

0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it has to be watered and fed,

0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.479
<v Speaker 2>just like a baby. So a lot of times it's

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 2>hard for them to walk away.

0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.640
<v Speaker 1>And I think, like this is something that as I'm

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.720
<v Speaker 1>a new dad, this is something that I've struggled with,

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>like work and and parenthood, especially when you're when you're

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 1>starting out, is not an easy balance, you know, like

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:41.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, because and then you also get the feel

0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:43.400
<v Speaker 1>of like you want to get out and you want

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.840
<v Speaker 1>to get back to the to the baby. You know,

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 1>it's just a you know, I think it's a it's

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 1>a struggle across the board, you know, I don't know

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:55.440
<v Speaker 1>if if any anyone had any ideas for how that

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:56.959
<v Speaker 1>could be improved.

0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Not too specifically, I mean, I think it goes with

0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.720
<v Speaker 2>the whole movement kind of across the country right now

0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 2>of people wanting, you know, a built in maternity leave,

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 2>which up until now golf's had so few women. I

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>think a lot of clubs have never even considered that

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 2>being something in a contract where, you know, if you

0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:15.680
<v Speaker 2>want to recruit women to work on your golf course,

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.679
<v Speaker 2>that's something you know, you might need to think about.

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, you think about like all the things

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>like that. If you're you know, you might try and plan,

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.720
<v Speaker 1>if you're in a northern climate, you might try and plan,

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, having a baby in the winter. But that's

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.720
<v Speaker 1>not how that works, like right, And that's.

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Also not fair. Yeah, use the word fair.

0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, exactly, Like it's just so much stress, you know,

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.960
<v Speaker 1>with that, And I can imagine how if you missed

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.679
<v Speaker 1>some of the most important part of the season, you know,

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.960
<v Speaker 1>just personally, you would feel like you're letting the team

0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 1>down in a way.

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And a lot of them said to the women

0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 2>that I interviewed that they did have kind of some

0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 2>self imposed reservations for that reason. You know, there were

0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:57.560
<v Speaker 2>a couple of women who said they knew that their

0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 2>crews would understand, but they still felt like, you know,

0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.440
<v Speaker 2>if they've spent time writing around on a golf cart

0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.399
<v Speaker 2>telling people what to do and not joining the crew,

0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you know that that just wasn't okay with them.

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is an interesting thing that I'd never even

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.560
<v Speaker 1>thought of with the pesticide stuff, you know, And that's

0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.359
<v Speaker 1>the big thing is like, you know, one of the

0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.439
<v Speaker 1>things you when I've learned a lot of being around

0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 1>cruise is like everybody is out there doing work, and

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that's where you get the most infectious team spirit is

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.359
<v Speaker 1>when everybody's doing it and you can whether or not

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.240
<v Speaker 1>everybody else feels like that personally, you can feel that way.

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's on them, And they said, you know,

0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:37.920
<v Speaker 2>it's definitely a balance of kind of coming to the

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 2>terms with the situation themselves. But I do think there

0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.600
<v Speaker 2>are some steps clubs might be able to take. You know,

0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.439
<v Speaker 2>if you have an assistant superintendent just trying to rotate

0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 2>schedules to give everyone some time away from the course,

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, even if they're not having children, but to

0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.800
<v Speaker 2>just allow everyone to have a better family relationship, whatever

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.040
<v Speaker 2>that family unit looks like for that person.

0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what We're some other challenges that were presented.

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.480
<v Speaker 2>The two other big ones were overcoming stereotypes, which we

0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of touched on a little bit already, and then

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the biggest one overall was misconduct from peers and you know,

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:14.879
<v Speaker 2>golfers and whatnot.

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And in terms of misconduct, that's just where you know,

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.040
<v Speaker 1>work and personal life mix, which you know, is ever

0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.399
<v Speaker 1>really a great idea in the workplace.

0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:28.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really hard. It was. It was hard for

0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 2>me to listen to because I've had some of these

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.359
<v Speaker 2>experiences myself, but a lot of these women, you know,

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:36.359
<v Speaker 2>took it really serious. They worked really hard to get

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:39.119
<v Speaker 2>to where they are and then to have people, you know,

0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:43.440
<v Speaker 2>discount you by making some remark that they absolutely would

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.720
<v Speaker 2>never say to their mother have said to a male

0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 2>in the same position is hard for them to hear.

0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 1>Are there. Did you uncover any similarities and personalities of

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 1>women who work in the turf industry. Was there anything

0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.879
<v Speaker 1>that you picked up on in terms of, you know,

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.040
<v Speaker 1>the women that have succeeded and gotten to leadership positions.

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was actually interesting. So, like I mentioned, we

0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.400
<v Speaker 2>interviewed thirteen women. They came from three different countries, all

0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:14.800
<v Speaker 2>sorts of different backgrounds, and they had strikingly similar responses

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 2>for a lot of the questions I asked. First off,

0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 2>almost none of them started in the turf industry straight

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.000
<v Speaker 2>out of high school like I did. They almost all

0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 2>started in other careers and kind of found their path

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:27.480
<v Speaker 2>to turf later. So I think that was a key

0:22:27.520 --> 0:22:30.280
<v Speaker 2>finding for US as far as recruitment, but as far

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 2>as personality traits, they all had a similar leadership style

0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 2>where they were really into open, honest communication type relationships.

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>They said they really made a point to talk to

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.199
<v Speaker 2>their crew to get to know everyone individually, which is

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:47.240
<v Speaker 2>something that it's been reported, you know, the male side

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 2>of the industry is maybe not so in touch with.

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.399
<v Speaker 1>You know, in terms of the challenges. You know, what

0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 1>would be your thoughts on the ways that the turf

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.600
<v Speaker 1>industry could begin to lessen these challenges.

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that one's pretty hard because it takes you know,

0:23:04.720 --> 0:23:07.960
<v Speaker 2>it's the bullet, the magic bullet right to me, The

0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:14.879
<v Speaker 2>biggest thing is just being accepting and being professional. Not

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:16.680
<v Speaker 2>that it was ever okay, but even when I started

0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the industry, there's very few women, and like I said,

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 2>people kind of looked at me like I was a

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 2>novelty and they always asked, well, why are you here?

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Do you work in sales or are you one of

0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.760
<v Speaker 2>the secretaries, And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's like, no,

0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm at this conference because I'm in turf. So I think,

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, for golfers, people in the turf industry, if

0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.600
<v Speaker 2>you see a woman working out on the course, assume

0:23:37.920 --> 0:23:40.119
<v Speaker 2>she might be the superintendent and treat her with the

0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.680
<v Speaker 2>same level of professionalism that you would treat anyone at

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.560
<v Speaker 2>their job. So I really think that's the biggest step,

0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:48.320
<v Speaker 2>is just recognizing women are becoming more plentiful in these

0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>roles and we need to just treat them as you know,

0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:52.480
<v Speaker 2>normal people working in turf.

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you hit on the growth in recent years, do

0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.879
<v Speaker 1>you do you know, is there any statistics on in

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:04.200
<v Speaker 1>terms of the growth of women interf and where it's

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.879
<v Speaker 1>come from, say twenty or whatever however far back.

0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, we don't really have those statistics since my study

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:14.560
<v Speaker 2>was kind of the first look at this. But I

0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:16.960
<v Speaker 2>can just tell you, you know, from my little network

0:24:17.000 --> 0:24:19.520
<v Speaker 2>of women when I started to now it's growing. I

0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:21.679
<v Speaker 2>mean it's still small. We're only making up two to

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:24.760
<v Speaker 2>four percent of the industry, but I really feel like

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:26.480
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot from where we came from even ten

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:28.639
<v Speaker 2>years ago. So it'll be interesting to track, you know,

0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>over the next five, ten, twenty years. I think it'll

0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 2>be slow going, but any growth is positive movement.

0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.680
<v Speaker 1>I imagine that, like social media is probably a big

0:24:37.720 --> 0:24:40.280
<v Speaker 1>help to this, where you know, social media and just

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:45.160
<v Speaker 1>the connectedness of the of the world now is probably helping,

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, potentially drive this forward.

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I mean that's how most of us women are

0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:54.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of finding each other and building that support network.

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>But also I mean you saw my paper on Twitter

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.200
<v Speaker 2>and now we're talking on this podcast. I think all

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 2>of these sorts of oppportunities coming together is what's going

0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 2>to make the difference.

0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, like you see the profession in general

0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:09.800
<v Speaker 1>like moving forward so much because of the spread of information,

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the sharing of ideas on Twitter, Like you see superintendents

0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:17.640
<v Speaker 1>in different turf professionals like, oh I have this problem.

0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, has anybody encountered this? And you see thirty

0:25:20.640 --> 0:25:23.520
<v Speaker 1>replies of people and it's a really cool thing for

0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 1>the turf industry, and it's funny because I think I

0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:29.919
<v Speaker 1>stumbled across your paper by somebody liking it that I

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.320
<v Speaker 1>followed and is I was like immediately like, oh, I

0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>got to read this.

0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:37.359
<v Speaker 2>You know. Yeah, turf Twitter is a crazy world, but

0:25:37.400 --> 0:25:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I give the industry a lot of credit that we

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:41.440
<v Speaker 2>all usually are willing to help each other. Like you said,

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:44.200
<v Speaker 2>people post pictures, ask for help. We're all really connected,

0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and the turf faculty at all the different universities are

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:49.760
<v Speaker 2>really good about, you know, sharing research updates, trying to

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:51.440
<v Speaker 2>make sure everyone has the best information.

0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Are there ways in which you think the turf

0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:58.480
<v Speaker 1>industry suffers because there are so few women in it?

0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think they definitely suffer from a labor perspective.

0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 2>But I think in general, what our country is really

0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:06.840
<v Speaker 2>learning is that diversity of thought can be, you know,

0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:09.880
<v Speaker 2>a good thing. A few women touched on the fact

0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>that their leadership style is they don't really care how

0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 2>things get done as long as the end result is

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.160
<v Speaker 2>what they asked for, And to me, that's very telling, right,

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:20.280
<v Speaker 2>they don't care which way you mow or whatever, as

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 2>long as the end result is there. And that's a

0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:24.639
<v Speaker 2>unique leadership style. But I think women can bring some

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.280
<v Speaker 2>of these innovative ideas to the golf course. I think

0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:29.120
<v Speaker 2>women are also set up really well to be golf

0:26:29.160 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 2>course superintendents. Like I mentioned earlier, they've got a really

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:35.640
<v Speaker 2>communicative leadership style. And also, I mean this is a fact,

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I think women tend to pay a lot more attention

0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:41.320
<v Speaker 2>to detail than men. So when it comes to a course,

0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, I would agree. You know a lot of

0:26:45.359 --> 0:26:47.600
<v Speaker 2>times there's things on golf course maintenance that are very

0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:50.080
<v Speaker 2>detail oriented, and I think women could be really good

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:52.119
<v Speaker 2>at picking up on some of that and just you know,

0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:55.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of creating a different dynamic and how things might

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:55.640
<v Speaker 2>be done.

0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.040
<v Speaker 1>I think you hit on such an important topics, Like

0:26:59.359 --> 0:27:03.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, when you have people thinking about things from

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:08.359
<v Speaker 1>different perspectives, and you know, it yields a better workplace

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.800
<v Speaker 1>and you're going to find more solutions when you have

0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:15.040
<v Speaker 1>more diverse ideas, and you know, diversity could come from

0:27:15.040 --> 0:27:18.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different ways. And I think, like when

0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>I think about this a lot, is that potentially removing

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:25.680
<v Speaker 1>some of these challenges that women face could also increase

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the potential workforce available to turf outside of women. It's

0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 1>just you know, different people have different backgrounds.

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, I think you know, any of the progress

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:39.959
<v Speaker 2>you make quote unquote for women is advancing the industry

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.160
<v Speaker 2>as a whole, because if you make it more inclusive

0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.240
<v Speaker 2>for women, you're making it more inclusive, you know, for

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:46.960
<v Speaker 2>other groups who might want to work in turf. I

0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:49.760
<v Speaker 2>know a golf course superintendent, mister Brent down sees the

0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>superintendent otter Crete Country Club. He's really made an effort

0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 2>to recruit high school students and it's funny. It's simple

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 2>things like when they are irrigating with a hose, he

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 2>lets the more flip flops. He lets them wear air

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:04.119
<v Speaker 2>pods while they're mowing greens. And I know that sounds silly,

0:28:04.560 --> 0:28:06.600
<v Speaker 2>but be it male or female, if you want to

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>attract high school students to work on your golf course,

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 2>those are things that matter to them. So just redefining,

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:13.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, the things we're focusing on and how we're

0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:16.600
<v Speaker 2>attracting people. It's time for change. Yeah.

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:19.720
<v Speaker 1>I was with a super headed this week who say that,

0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>you know the problem with high school students is they

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.879
<v Speaker 1>don't want to work weekends and it's like, well, maybe

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you could plug in some teachers or some golf nuts

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:31.840
<v Speaker 1>that are looking for Monday playing privileges. There.

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's the thing, you know, talk up the perks,

0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 2>and I think people are learning trying to let people

0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 2>have a more flexible schedule, Like, yes, the golf course

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.320
<v Speaker 2>needs to be mote on weekends, but you know, maybe

0:28:42.400 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 2>it's high schoolers come in every other weekend or whatever.

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.120
<v Speaker 2>So there's things we could do to just garner more

0:28:48.120 --> 0:28:49.960
<v Speaker 2>people from whatever background.

0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>In your research, have you come across any other industries

0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:59.080
<v Speaker 1>where you know, female involvement was low that it is

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 1>soared in and has become you know, a much bigger

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>part of that. Potentially turf could look at and mimic,

0:29:06.240 --> 0:29:08.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, and maybe look at some of the strategies

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:12.800
<v Speaker 1>that we're used to, you know, promote women into the workforce.

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Sure, so right now we're kind of using agriculture as

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 2>a whole as the model. Certainly agricultural disciplines are male dominated,

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:25.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's much more balanced than turf. The only disciplines

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>I know of that are quite this low are you know, welding, plumbing,

0:29:28.920 --> 0:29:31.760
<v Speaker 2>and electric construction. So it's hard to make those sorts

0:29:31.800 --> 0:29:35.440
<v Speaker 2>of comparisons, but I think agriculture has made some big,

0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 2>big steps lately to get more women involved to help

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.320
<v Speaker 2>deal with some of the labor issues they're facing. So

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:43.680
<v Speaker 2>I cited a lot of similar works in my paper,

0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 2>but there are studies on women in ag and other

0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 2>sectors that I think we can kind of model and

0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:49.960
<v Speaker 2>tie into to help with the turf issue.

0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you know of any of the things that they've

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 1>done to help with that labor shortage? With with you know,

0:29:56.880 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 1>getting women involved.

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:03.560
<v Speaker 2>One of the biggest things is mentorship. They've made really

0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:07.120
<v Speaker 2>focused efforts to create mentor programs, you know, match women

0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 2>with women in the industry, just so if they feel

0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 2>like they have someone there to kind of walk them through.

0:30:12.160 --> 0:30:14.640
<v Speaker 2>So that's something we are doing in turf that one

0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 2>of the ladies from the Canadian Golf Course Superintendent Association

0:30:17.600 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 2>has started the Women in Turf grass Mentorship program. So

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I think if we can start expanding that program, you know,

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:25.800
<v Speaker 2>bigger across the US, and not even just for women

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 2>but also for men, that that could help with the recruitment.

0:30:29.120 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 1>So, you know, in terms of you know, goals and

0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:34.960
<v Speaker 1>different things, I'm not sure, you know, but where would

0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 1>you like to see you know, turf get to in

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 1>the next five to ten years.

0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I mean, it's hard to put a number on it.

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to sit here and pretend that we're

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>going to be fifty to fifty. Yeah, but I mean

0:30:46.920 --> 0:30:48.960
<v Speaker 2>for me, like we're at four percent, I would love

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:51.960
<v Speaker 2>to see that growth doubled in five to ten years.

0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 2>To me, that would be a success. And we're gaining

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:56.360
<v Speaker 2>more by the day, so I think it's achievable.

0:30:57.160 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 1>How could people help, you know, whether they're in the

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:03.160
<v Speaker 1>turf industry, uh, whether they are at a club or

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.640
<v Speaker 1>a course, what what are types of things that that

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.840
<v Speaker 1>they can do to to promote this uh, this movement?

0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we're really asking people to just support women.

0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 2>So I mean in the industry, that could be anything

0:31:15.360 --> 0:31:18.480
<v Speaker 2>from saying hi at a conference to you know, nominating

0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:21.800
<v Speaker 2>a qualified woman to win an award. I think out

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:23.880
<v Speaker 2>on the golf course kind of like we talked about earlier,

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.640
<v Speaker 2>just recognizing that you know, women belong there. If you

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 2>see a female working on the crew and you suspect

0:31:28.840 --> 0:31:31.600
<v Speaker 2>she's a superintendent, go up and say the greens are

0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:34.480
<v Speaker 2>rolling nice, or you know, just give them that support

0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and that validation that you recognize, you know that they're

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>doing their job and they're doing it well, that's.

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Uh, that's great. Well, We hope you get back into golf,

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:46.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, so we can have more toughs in the future.

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:50.080
<v Speaker 1>But everybody should go check out your paper. How can

0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:52.360
<v Speaker 1>people get in touch with you if they want to lend,

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:56.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, help with in any way or potentially you know,

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.440
<v Speaker 1>contact you about different you know something I don't know

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 1>what somebody context.

0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so the paper is open access, so you can

0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 2>access it for free if they just google the title

0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:08.800
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned earlier. And as far as contacting me, probably

0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the easiest way. I am on Twitter. My handle is

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:15.760
<v Speaker 2>turf Girl twenty four, so look me up, shoot me

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.120
<v Speaker 2>a DM or whatever and I'd be happy to connect

0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and chat more about this.

0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's how I got in touch, So you know,

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 1>it's easy, and thank you so much, and I hope

0:32:25.040 --> 0:32:28.520
<v Speaker 1>everybody goes and reads your paper. It was really a

0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:29.080
<v Speaker 1>great read.

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thanks for letting me share.

0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll link to it in the podcast notes, so

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.480
<v Speaker 1>if you are looking for it, you can find it there.