Speaker 1: I got this problem. I go to Costco and when
Speaker 1: I'm there, I always sneak and I buy like a
Speaker 1: big giant cub of peanut and MPs and I eat them. Carob,
Speaker 1: get sick.
Speaker 2: You are weak, John Cipher. The KGB is going to
Speaker 2: see this, and they're going to know this vulnerability. This
Speaker 2: is Jerry O'Shea and my co conspirator, John Cipher, and
Speaker 2: this is a mini episode of Mission Implausible.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventy eight, the government passed the PISA Law,
Speaker 1: the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, to try to create a
Speaker 1: mechanism by which intelligence collectors in the intelligence community could
Speaker 1: collect on foreign intelligence targets. The thing that we're talking
Speaker 1: about today. Section seven oh two of the Pisa Act
Speaker 1: was enacted to address a collection gap that resulted from
Speaker 1: the evolution of technology in the years after the Pisa
Speaker 1: actress passed in nineteen seventy eight. So by the mid
Speaker 1: two thousands, many terrorists and other foreign adversaries were using
Speaker 1: email accounts served by US companies and telecommunications companies in
Speaker 1: the United States. In other words, someone talking from Pakistan
Speaker 1: to Afghanistan, their email may rout through the United States,
Speaker 1: and therefore we needed to create a process by which
Speaker 1: we could collect this. That's what seven h two is.
Speaker 1: The program cannot target US persons regardless of location, whether
Speaker 1: they're overseas or in the United States.
Speaker 2: But for the audience, if you're not dealing with ISIS
Speaker 2: terrorists in Afghanistan, and you're not dealing with Russian intelligence
Speaker 2: officers and having shady deals with them, you don't actually
Speaker 2: have to worry about this. So anybody out there who
Speaker 2: is not dealing with Russian intelligence officers Chinese intelligence officers
Speaker 2: are terrorists. FIS A dozen't impact on you, And if
Speaker 2: people try to make you believe that it does, they're
Speaker 2: conspiring to get you to believe something that isn't true.
Speaker 1: So why that's a big deal this week is that
Speaker 1: law runs out at the end of the month and
Speaker 1: Congress has to either change it, reform it, or continue
Speaker 1: the law. And people on the far right and far
Speaker 1: left are trying to kill off fis A seven oh two.
Speaker 1: Many people in the middle but also our national security
Speaker 1: professionals are saying it's critical. Sixty percent of the presidential
Speaker 1: daily brief material that is briefed from the intelligence agencies
Speaker 1: to the president comes from seven oh two FISA collection
Speaker 1: and multiple terrorists plots have been foiled based on this information.
Speaker 1: For example, the location of the OLCAEDA leader Zawahiri, who
Speaker 1: was eventually killed in Afghanistan last year, it was all
Speaker 1: information that came from FISA seven or two collection. What's
Speaker 1: happened as former President Trump is running for reelection that
Speaker 1: FISA seven or two should be killed now because in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, the information that led to the Muller report
Speaker 1: and the Senate report and a number of people that
Speaker 1: were part of the Trump campaign being arrested because of
Speaker 1: contact with Russian intelligence officers. Those people have convinced themselves
Speaker 1: that they were being quote unquote spied on by the
Speaker 1: FBI or the intelligence community, and so therefore we have
Speaker 1: to get rid of it.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly what an aspersion is, but let
Speaker 2: me cast one out right. So if I've got something
Speaker 2: to hide, the last thing I want is someone investigating me.
Speaker 2: So when edver anybody says get rid of the process
Speaker 2: of like checking up on me, I got to wonder,
Speaker 2: like why, I just want to go through a real
Speaker 2: quick list of people in Trump's organization who you know,
Speaker 2: why he might be concerned. So there's his campaign chairman,
Speaker 2: Paul Mayniford, senior campaign official, Rick Gates, national security advisor,
Speaker 2: Mike Flynn, his son Don Trump, Jared Kushner, Trump campaign advisor,
Speaker 2: George Papadopolis campaign advisor, Rick Page, Jeff Sessions, Jack Guy,
Speaker 2: the name of G. D. Gordon, Roger Stone, Mike Caputo,
Speaker 2: Eric Prince, Abby Berkowitz, Michael Cohen, and Avonka Trump. All
Speaker 2: these people, and you can go look it up, were
Speaker 2: in touch directly or indirectly with Russian intelligence officers. If
Speaker 2: you're saying, hey, in my world, me and all my
Speaker 2: friends are in touch secretly with Russian intelligence officers and
Speaker 2: lying about it. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with
Speaker 2: having Russian intelligence officers as your best friend and your
Speaker 2: best friend's best friends. But I worry about that.
Speaker 1: But what happened Trump in Russia and Russia collusion, all
Speaker 1: those things that happened in the twenty sixteen election, That
Speaker 1: was a tool that was used to spy on Russians,
Speaker 1: on Russian intelligence activities in the United States. It just
Speaker 1: turned out that Trump campaign officials were on the other
Speaker 1: end of those calls. So the reason this is a
Speaker 1: big deal is almost every NAW security professional is saying,
Speaker 1: this is absolutely critical. This is where we get the
Speaker 1: bulk of our intelligence. This is the place that we
Speaker 1: stop hackers, that we stopped terrorists. And just because President
Speaker 1: Trump misunderstands the thing and wants to attack what he
Speaker 1: calls a deep state, and in this case he's one
Speaker 1: hundred percent wrong, it was a different FISA law that
Speaker 1: the FBI used to track foreign interference in the United States.
Speaker 1: There was a case just last week, for example, where
Speaker 1: a teenage boy planning to attack churches in Idaho in
Speaker 1: support of ISIS was arrested. Now, I don't know for sure,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't be surprised if that came through some
Speaker 1: sort of PISA seven or two collection that the FBI
Speaker 1: then queried to find out that there is an American
Speaker 1: tied to a foreign terrorist organization and they were able
Speaker 1: to stop him. His plan was, and the quote, was
Speaker 1: to stop close by the church, equip the webs, and
Speaker 1: storm the temple, kill as many people as possible before
Speaker 1: they inevitably disperse and scatter, then burn the temple to
Speaker 1: the ground, and flee the scene. And then he said
Speaker 1: he would repeat it for all twenty one churches in
Speaker 1: the town.
Speaker 2: And he could have been talking to someone in Afghanistan
Speaker 2: telling him how to build a bomb. And I would
Speaker 2: want to be the one going to the relatives of
Speaker 2: the people who were killed and saying I just didn't
Speaker 2: want Fiza, because you know, I don't know what you'd say.
Speaker 1: You know, there's always been conspiracies around intelligence services because
Speaker 1: it's secrecy and surveillance.
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, John, when I was on
Speaker 2: the inside, we had trouble figuring out which possible like
Speaker 2: numbers to follow of people that we were pretty sure
Speaker 2: were involved in terrasm. You know, if you're speaking Urdu
Speaker 2: or Farsi or Arabic, these are generally the Chechen these
Speaker 2: are the numbers that were interested in. If you're speaking
Speaker 2: in English, chances are you're not being picked up anyway.
Speaker 1: So this specific conspiracy theory about what's happening today, though,
Speaker 1: is a conspiracy much from the right. Is it confusion,
Speaker 1: is it to raise money, is it for personal in reasons?
Speaker 1: All these type of things. But in this case, it's
Speaker 1: really about Donald Trump trying to reap for election. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so, And so I think he is trying
Speaker 1: to stir up people in his base that the evil
Speaker 1: government is out for him, and you need to stick
Speaker 1: with me against this evil government. But what's interesting to
Speaker 1: me is that conspiracy that's being used by the right
Speaker 1: now is one that was very strong on the left.
Speaker 1: And the issue of surveillance and FIZA things in the past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was always the big brother thing was always
Speaker 2: more about the left. So I guess the personal paranoia
Speaker 2: has sort of chained sides. Oho, there's still plenty of
Speaker 2: like paranoia on the left as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a long history of the FBI surveiling
Speaker 1: people like Martin Luther King and using illegal means to
Speaker 1: do so, and so that's why there's ben reforms and
Speaker 1: that's in fact why FISA was created in nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 1: so that there is oversight and judges and processes. In
Speaker 1: a sense, throwing out FAIZA now is actually creating the
Speaker 1: problem that the Republicans claim that is why they want
Speaker 1: to throw it out.
Speaker 2: And it looks like the House is going to pass
Speaker 2: FIZA now. It still has to go to the Senate,
Speaker 2: and there's still supple of hurdles it has to go through.
Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, why is it you think, John that
Speaker 2: when they brief Mike Johnson and some of the other
Speaker 2: senior people what made them change their minds.
Speaker 1: You know, on one hand, to be partisan and to
Speaker 1: support this base, you want to create an enemy, the
Speaker 1: deep state, this conspiracy they're working against. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, you do have a responsibility American people and
Speaker 1: American securities. When you're briefed that the great proportion of
Speaker 1: the intelligence we have that saves American lives is from
Speaker 1: this program, you're put into a hard place. You want
Speaker 1: to support what Trump is saying, supposedly, but at the
Speaker 1: other end, you don't want to be stuck with Americans
Speaker 1: dying and saying that's because you were afraid to do
Speaker 1: your duty and vote in this way.
Speaker 2: You know, Thoughts and prayers is what you'd say, but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to actually friggin do anything about it.
Speaker 1: Good chatting, but remember on Wednesday, there'll be a new
Speaker 1: episode of Mission Implausible and we're going to be talking
Speaker 1: about UFOs with comedian Michael ian Black.