1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: On February ninth and two thousand four, Maura Murray left 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: her dorm in Massachusetts and drove some one miles into 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Her car hit a tree. It's cold, it's desolate, 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: it's barren, and it's very dark. This is crime stories. 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: But Nancy Grace, a person came along, was driving bus, 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: was a neighbor. He asked her she knew to help, 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: she refused. My immediate reaction when I found open my 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: daughter was miss him was right at the EDG Japanic. 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: She found her cock was in an accident. She's not there. 10 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Where is she? Where is the search now? How far 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: do you look now? And it turns out there but 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: there was no re search. The initial conclusions at the 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: scene was that Mara had probably left on her own 14 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: free will. Imagine this a old February evening, very close 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: to Valentine's Day, and you have a fender bender, but 16 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: your family says you're never seen again. I cannot even 17 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: imagine what it would be like to race to the 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: scene of a fender bender of my sister, my mom, 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: my husband, and the cars there, all their stuffs inside, 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: but they're gone. I just held that thought for a moment. 21 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, It's Nancy Grace with crime stories and I'm 22 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: talking about, of course Maura Murray and joining me along 23 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: with the Duke Alan Duke investigative reporter today two special 24 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: guests Tim and Lance. They have made it their mission 25 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: to find out what happened to missing Maura Murray. I 26 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: want to thank someone for being with us today. It 27 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: is Simply Safe, Simply Safe home protection and alarm system. 28 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: You know, thousands of people across America every day want 29 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: a security system, but they think they cannot afford it. 30 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: I have a security system, got a security system for 31 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: my mom. This is called Simply Safe and I love it. 32 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, a lady in our neighborhood, 33 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Ms Shirley, her husband passed away recently. He was a 34 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: World War Two vet like my father. She's all a 35 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: one and she's been very concerned because somebody will come 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: and ring her doorbell at like three o'clock in the morning. 37 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: And the other morning she woke up around three o'clock 38 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: in the morning and she could hear someone outside whistling, whistling, 39 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: and it scared her so much. Well, she got a 40 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: Simply Safe. It's fourteen nine a month, and this is 41 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: one of my mom's best friends. I feel so much 42 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: better knowing she has it. The thing about it is 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: you can afford it doesn't have any contracts. It's seven 44 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: three six protection. There are security professionals watching and they 45 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: react instantly and send the police. And you can get 46 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: temper sent off by going to simply save dot com 47 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: slash Nancy, simply safe dot com slash Nancy. And I 48 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: certainly would not have suggested this to my mom or 49 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: her friends if I did not believe that home alarm 50 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: systems stop crime like simply safe. That's what I think. 51 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: Now this is what we know. February nine, two thousand 52 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: four have her hill in Hampshire, Lovely area, rural not 53 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: too far from a town. Murray, a nursing student at 54 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: University Massachusetts, never disappeared before, but that afternoon Feb nine, 55 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: before she leaves campus, she emailed her teachers and her 56 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: work manager that she was taking a week off. Now 57 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: she set us because of a death in the family, 58 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: but no one can confirm that. At first, I almost 59 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: hate to say this, it sounds like a bad echo. 60 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: Police treat it as a missing person case. Uh that 61 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: was because of her alleged travel preps, no sign of 62 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: foul play, She's never been seen again. This is fab nine, 63 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and four. But she's still on vacation. I 64 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: don't buy it, and I'm also suspicious as to who 65 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: or why those messages were sent to a work supervisor 66 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: and professors at school. Let's bring in now, Tim and Lance, guys. 67 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us. Tim, I've 68 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: never believed this was a voluntary missing case. Never. Yeah, 69 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: thank you very much for having us on. Nancy. Um, yeah, 70 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely a confusing case, to say the least. 71 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: I don't like that. I don't like confusing, and I'll 72 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: tell you why, because to me, it's very clear. I'm 73 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: not confused. I mean, honestly, you confused. You think she 74 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: just went on vacation, never showed back up, just left 75 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: her nursing studies, left her family, left her job, everything, 76 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: and went to Hey with it. I'm just gonna leave 77 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: and leave my car and everything else. You really think 78 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: that's what happened. Thirteen years have gone by. I think 79 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: it's very very difficult to to believe that she's still 80 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: out there. I'm not confused at all. She was taken 81 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: and she was killed. Tim and Lance joining me from 82 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: their Missing Morra Murray podcast. Let's go through the facts. 83 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: You start, Tim, Okay, well she got into a single 84 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: car accident at about seven thirty pm. And back at up, 85 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: back at up, Mr Man, single car accident. You sound 86 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: like a cop for Pete. I'm glad that you started, Tim, 87 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: your eggs, little boy. But when you say a single 88 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: car accident, let's let's talk about what happened. Okay, what happened? 89 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: What do you mean by single car accident? I'll never forget. 90 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: When I was a brand new prosecutor, I was trying 91 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: to drop up indictments for the grand jury, which basically 92 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: means you're stuck with reading a big, huge file and 93 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: then you boil it down. You figure out what counts 94 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: should this person be charged with, if any, and you 95 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: fear it through all the information and come up with 96 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: the correct felon accounts. And I was reading a police 97 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: important and said, we secreted ourselves. I'm like, what you 98 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: secreted yourselves? I figured out that's cop taught for We 99 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: went and hid. Okay, Now, single car accident brings back 100 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: secreted memories, and what that means is they hid themselves 101 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: to spy on somebody. So when you say single car accident, 102 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: this is important, Tim and Lance. What did you hit? 103 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: My point is was it stay aged? What did she hit? Well, 104 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: there are some out there, there's a school thought out 105 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: there that, um, the accident was not It didn't appear 106 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: to be to be a normal miss miss interpretation of 107 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: a curve. Route one twelve was extremely windy and it 108 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,119 Speaker 1: was dark, and there could have been a situation where 109 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: she might have hit some black ice and overcorrected. Um, 110 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: but the damage on her car was not really consistent 111 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: with the damage. Um that do we know what she hit? 112 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: It was a guard I leill tell you it was 113 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: a guardrail, for Pete's sake, a guardrail on Route nine 114 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: in Hadley. Um, No, wait a minute, that was a 115 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: different father's car. That's right, that was her dad's car. Yeah, 116 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: she had an accident two days beforehand with her father's 117 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: car right outside of you Mass. So what do we 118 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: know about her fender bender? It was the police report 119 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: says she hit a tree, but we don't believe that's true. 120 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: We think it was a snow bank. Right. You really 121 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: couldn't be going that fast that road to hit a tree. 122 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: If she was going that fast to go through the 123 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: snowbank to hit the tree, the damage would have been 124 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: very obvious and the car would have been in a 125 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: different spot. Let me ask you a question. What I'm 126 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: getting at and why I find this significant is really 127 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: no detail is insignificant in any criminal case, especially if 128 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: it catches your interest. If you find something unusual about it, 129 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: you need to at least investigate it. My point is, 130 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: I don't really care if she hit a stop sign, 131 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: a tree, or snowbank. But what I'm wondering is was 132 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: it stage does somebody else do that to her car? 133 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 1: Or was she in the car struggling for the wheel 134 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: and it went off the road. How do I know 135 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: she was driving the car or even in the car. 136 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,599 Speaker 1: So let's start with A before we get to Z A. 137 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: Do we have any indication whatsoever that she was driving 138 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: the car? Yes, so a neighbor, butch Atwood, he lived 139 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: about a hundred yards away from the accident scene, was 140 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: driving his bus. He was a bus driver. He was 141 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: driving his bus home that night and came upon the 142 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: scene probably about a minute later, and spoke to Maura, 143 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: told her that if she wanted, she could go back 144 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: to his house and get warm. She said, it's okay. 145 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: I already called Triple A. She told him not to 146 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: call the police. He said he was going to call 147 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: the police, he said, She said, no, I already called 148 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: Triple A. Okay, hold on right there. Unless I was 149 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: phrasing to death, I would not go in an unknown 150 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: man's house. And he was a very He was a 151 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: very intimidating looking man. He was over three hundred pounds 152 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: um grizzled, grizzled man. So I don't find that unusual. Now, 153 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: some people would say, oh, she didn't want to go 154 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: in there because she had another plan. She was going 155 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: to take off with so and so. I wouldn't go 156 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: in there either. So she had a cell phone? Correct, Yeah, 157 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: that's correct. Did she call Triple A? Is that real? No, 158 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: you can't if you go there today like today, you 159 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: can't get cell phone reception in that area. And he 160 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: knew that too. But do we know of cell phone 161 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: record where she tried to call? It does not exist. 162 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: She there was no activity on her phone. Okay that 163 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: that that's legitimate to say she didn't have cell reception. 164 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that, but I do know cell phone 165 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: records don't lie. So she didn't call, She didn't call, 166 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: and she lied to the guy. Now do I hold 167 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: that against her? No, because I might make something up 168 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: in order to get away from some dude trying to 169 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: get me to get into his head. I wouldn't this, Okay, 170 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: So what happens then she doesn't go to the house. 171 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: What happens, Well, then another neighbor pretty much directly across 172 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the street at seven calls and speaks to operator UH 173 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: and explains the scenario outside of her window and describes 174 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: a flurry of activity at the trunk and between does 175 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: she see does she see Maura at the trunk? She 176 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: sees a woman? A woman? Well, I still think that 177 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: was Ara unless because you know, I statistically a woman 178 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: is not going to kidnap another woman out on an 179 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: ice bank. Okay, that's not gonna happen. So let's go 180 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: with that's moraw for right now. Now that's I'm trying 181 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: to time it. How soon did that How close was 182 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: that call to police actually getting there? The one of 183 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: the police officers, Cecil Smith, was dispatched at seven nine 184 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: at seven forty, the Atwood residents um spoke to one 185 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: give me those times again, I'm sorry, seven forty seven 186 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: forty the Atwood residents called one was busy. They got 187 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: a call back from UM from dispatch at seven forty two. 188 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: The first witness call was at seven seven, and so 189 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: the first officer arrived on the scene at seven forty six. 190 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: So there were two nine one one calls. So you've 191 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: got nineteen minutes between them seeing her at the trunk 192 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: and the cop getting there. Nineteen minutes, is that right? Yes? 193 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: Now that second the first time they called nine one 194 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: one it was busy? Is that when they saw her? 195 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: That was a few minutes later? That right, That was 196 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: a few minutes later. But Chadwood went back to his house, 197 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: told his wife to call. He went back to his 198 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: bus and couldn't quite see the accident scene, but saw 199 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: cars going by in the In the meantime, Faith Westman, 200 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: the first witness across the street, called, and that's when 201 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: that's when police were dispatched. And that was that the 202 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: first call, and seven was when police Cecil Smith was 203 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: dispatched to the scene and he got their nineteen minutes later, correct, 204 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: at seven. What I'm trying to figure out is how 205 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: much time elapsed between someone actually seeing her at the 206 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: trump and the cop getting there, as long as Faith 207 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: Westman kept her eyes on on on the car the 208 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: entire time. We don't we don't really know. We don't 209 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: know when Faith Westman hung up the phone and why 210 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: she hung up the phone. So the last time we 211 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: know someone saw her was Butch Atwood at between seven 212 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: and seven thirty. Because there's nothing, there's no time stamp 213 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: on when he saw her. We just know that during 214 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: Faith Wesman's call, he at one point arrived and spoke 215 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: to more. Okay, so tell me the next secret of 216 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: what happens next in the sequence of event. Well, she 217 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: was gone by the time Cecil Smith arrived at and 218 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: you're saying someone spoke to her other than Butch Adams, 219 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: which was the only person that we know of to 220 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: speak to her at the scene, actually speak to her. Okay. 221 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, I wonder if police know of 222 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: many passers by that saw her that morning. I'm just 223 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: trying to pinpoint that timeline. No, No, did anybody come 224 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: forward and say they saw her. No, one came forward. Immediately. 225 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: There was another neighbor who came forward and said that 226 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: he saw somebody who might somebody who might have matched 227 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: her description a few miles up the street up on 228 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: a walking kind of kind of running and ducking into 229 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: the woods. But we have suspicions about that individual. That 230 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that she'd be ducking in the woods. 231 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: I would be waiting for a lady to come along 232 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: in a car that would give me a ride. Okay, 233 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: so we've got about a nineteen minute lapse there. What 234 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: could have happened, Um, we know it was her, we 235 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: know she was in the car. We know there was 236 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: some sort of single car accident staged or not staged, 237 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: and we know she left the car and was at 238 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: night so nobody could really see exactly what was going on. Yeah, 239 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: very dark at the scene. Okay, at some point we 240 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: have a we have a witness who um, pretty much 241 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: right right at the time of the accident, right around 242 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: that time frame, within a few a few weeks, Um, 243 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: she reported to the police that she did see the 244 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: police suv with zero zero one park knows two knows 245 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: with Morris car somewhere in that fifteen to nineteen minute timeframe. Um, 246 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: we can pretty much narrow it down to about four minutes, 247 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: four to six minutes where she she left work, was 248 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: driving to her home. There's a dead zone of cell 249 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: phone reception, so she she called before she left work, 250 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: and she called when she got back into cell phone reception. 251 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: In the meantime, she passed by the scene and saw 252 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: police SUV zero zero one park knows two knows with 253 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Morris's car. However, she didn't see anybody inside the car, 254 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: figured that it was probably in the process of maybe 255 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: she was in the suv with the police officer. It 256 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: was dark. She couldn't see any any any particular person. 257 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: Who was the police officer that answered the call? Well, 258 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: Cecil Smith is the first person on paper to have 259 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: arrived there. But the STUV that we're talking about wasn't 260 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: actually on any police report. And uh that they they 261 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: say that that police suv was was in the shop 262 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: at that time. How could that be? I don't know, 263 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: either the witnesses wrong or they're wrong exactly. And who 264 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: would have been in that suv? What cop was attached 265 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: to that suv? The only person who was allowed to 266 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: drive that SUV zero zero one is the chief of 267 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: police and the chief of police at the time was 268 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: Jeff Williams. And where was he at that time? Has 269 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: he been accounted for. I don't know, as far as 270 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: we know that he might have been drunk. What what wokay? What? 271 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: Oh ho ho whoa whoa, whoa whoa. This is a 272 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: whole new monkey when you've thrown into this. So another 273 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: witness states that she sees a police suv parked, knows 274 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: two knows like you're gonna jump off the car, and 275 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: doesn't see anybody in Mara's car and assumes the person 276 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: maur is in the suv. The police force says that 277 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: suv was in the shop and that suv is attached 278 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: to the Chief of Police. This is before Officer Cecil 279 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: Smith X Smith gets there. Huh, I see. I don't actually, 280 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: as much as I'd love to believe the conspiracy theory 281 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: that the police of chief is the chief of Police 282 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: is involved, the timeline really doesn't fit to me. You've 283 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: only got nineteen minutes for what the chief of police 284 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: to show up, kidnap her and make off with her 285 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: and come up with a cover. That doesn't make sense 286 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: to me. And and and Faith Westman never says in 287 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: her phone call to that the police have arrived, which 288 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: which would be something I would think if I was 289 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: looking at a at an accident and I was on 290 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: the phone with the police and I saw the police arrive, 291 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: I would say, oh, the police have arrived, you know. 292 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: That's how I would end the call. Um, Can I 293 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: ask you another question that really precedes this this moment. 294 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: What about her statements to or messages to her boss 295 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: and her professors that she was leaving due to a 296 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: death in the family. Are we for sure that she 297 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: is the one that sent those messages or made those statements. 298 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: The statements about there being a death in the family 299 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: and that is why she needed to take some some 300 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: time off have been proven to be false. According to 301 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: the email, it did come from her email address. Well, 302 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything to me. The fact that it 303 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: came from her email address. I mean, I could hack 304 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: into your email address on my cell phone right now, 305 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: probably what is it your d O B? I mean, 306 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: come on, are your child's d o B? Or your 307 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: phone number or your social I mean someone that knew 308 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: her I A A boyfriend or ex boyfriend could guess 309 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: her pass code and send those emails. Sure, Yeah, I'm 310 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: just not in the I'm just not I've given up 311 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,719 Speaker 1: speculating on this a long time ago. What we know 312 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: is that an email was sent from her email address. So, 313 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: on the other hand, think of how far fetched that 314 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: would be. An ex hacking into your email. Not far fetched, 315 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: but and ex hacking into your email, plus you happen 316 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: to have a fender bender, plus in nineteen minutes you disappear. 317 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: All that together to me doesn't add up. Yeah, it 318 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: definitely doesn't add up. Um what what the Yeah. The 319 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: school of thought that Tim and I go on at 320 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: this point is that with the accident she got into 321 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: with her father's car, which which was a total uh. 322 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: She she gets into that accident, she allegedly had boyfriend problems. 323 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: He was he was away, he was um he was 324 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: at West Point, Um or he was in Oklahoma at 325 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: Fort Sill, And she was going through a bad stretch, 326 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: and it seemed like she needed to get away. And 327 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: if she were to email and and and lie about 328 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: a death in the family to get some time off, 329 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: to get a little extra time off, just to clear 330 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: her head. That's what it seems like happened. Well, would 331 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: she have gone to visit the boyfriend at West Point? Why? 332 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: I think he wasn't at West Point at that time. 333 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,959 Speaker 1: I think she wanted to take some time to herself. 334 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: I don't think it was. She had just seen him 335 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: over Christmas break. I think she needed some time to 336 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: be alone. Every everything she took, because everything. Every time 337 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: I hear of a woman that says she wants to 338 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: be alone and goes missing, a guy killed her. Okay, 339 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: so let's think about this. So just because she saw 340 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: him at Christmas break, this is February, if they were 341 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: having problems, would she have gone there to try to 342 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: work them out? Where you're saying he's not at West Point? 343 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: So where was he? He was at Fort Sill in Oklahoma? 344 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: So the boyfriends at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. How far of 345 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: a drive would that have been? And why would she 346 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: have ditched her car to do it? It's like a 347 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: twenty hour drive or something like that. So what do 348 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: we know about him? Has he been investigated? Yeah? He 349 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: has um he was cleared a while a long time 350 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: ago by police. So it's sounds like all conspiracy theories aside. 351 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: She does have a finder bender and somebody picks her up. 352 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: H Is that what you think? Yeah? I think we 353 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: I think we both agree that that's what happened. So 354 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: let's talk about her activity. Didn't she go on Google Map, 355 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: map quest or something the night before. What do we 356 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: know about that? Yeah, she she called for She called 357 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: to potentially rent a condo in Bartlett, New Hampshire, but 358 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: she also had directions to Burlington, Vermont in her car 359 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: that ski season, I mean, did she take ski gear 360 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: with her? What? What was in the car? She had 361 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: basically like a backpack of sort of an overnight bag, 362 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: maybe maybe a few It seemed like she was probably 363 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: going away for a few nights based on her clothes, 364 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: her cell phone, her keys, and her wallet have never 365 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: been recovered. Cell phone, keys, and wallet. But was backpack 366 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: still in the car? Yes? Uh? Yeah, there was sort 367 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: of a duffel bag I think with um with a 368 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 1: lot of her belongings and some alcohol as well. Was 369 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: in the car still? So didn't she just go to 370 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: the liquor store? Yes, she went to the liquor store 371 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: before she left. So sounds to me like she was 372 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: going away for a weekend, two or three days somewhere. 373 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: But was she going to meet somebody? The condo she 374 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: called had had two bedrooms on the condo she she 375 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: attempted to rent. Um, So there's there's been lots of 376 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: speculation of that over the years, but no one's ever 377 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: come out and said they were supposed to be with 378 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: her or well what about her cell phone? Were there 379 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 1: any cell phone calls or emails or text to suggest 380 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: she was meeting someone. There was just a mysterious ping 381 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: which could have been from her cell phone or to 382 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: her cell phone off of the London Dairy, New Hampshire tower, 383 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: which is I think about an hour away from where 384 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: she where her car was found. Um, but there's nothing 385 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: after that. There's there's been no activity on her phone. 386 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: Why why do you say it as a mystery paining 387 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: it's it's just tough to get the cell phone records 388 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: from I think it was sprint back back in two 389 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: thousand four for what could have been her checking her voicemail. 390 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: Maybe there's just been there's very little information, but I mean, 391 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: if it pinned off that tower, that means that the 392 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: cell phone was near that tower, within within that that's 393 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: also strange. That's also strange because it doesn't make sense 394 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: with the route she would have taken from u mass 395 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: Um that that that tower in the town where where 396 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: it pinned is off of a different highway than the 397 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: one that she would have taken from western Massachusetts. But 398 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: doesn't it make sense if someone got her in the car. 399 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: I mean she's alone on the side of the road 400 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: at night, so she's gone about a mile according to 401 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: one motorist if they're to be believed, And she definitely 402 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: leaves the scene. So she's either picked up in a 403 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: car at the scene of her crash or she starts 404 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: walking because she doesn't want to go into the home 405 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: with this butch guy and gets picked up there. So 406 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: she got picked up by somebody either on foot or 407 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: at the scene. Why wouldn't it make sense for her 408 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: if she's taken involuntarily, Why wouldn't it make sense for 409 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: them to go in direction of the pink? Well, the 410 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: pin came before the accident that came about. Probably, Yeah, 411 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: that was the route from um from Massachusetts to New Hampshire. Yeah, 412 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: and like Tim said, it's on it's on a different highway. 413 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: If you were to leave you mass Amherst and go 414 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: to New Hampshire, you'd be taking a certain highway. This 415 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: was pained off of another major highway going to New Hampshire. Who, 416 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: if anyone did she know in the Berkshire's um Burlington 417 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: Because around midnight the night before, I mean that night, 418 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: because midnight she goes missing. That day, Feb nine, she 419 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 1: uses her personal computer PC to search map quest to 420 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: get to the Shire Berkshire's or to Burlington, Vermont, both 421 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: SKay areas. So did she know anyone in those areas, 422 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: not that we know of. We know her sister and 423 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: brother in law lived in Vermont, but they have not 424 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: uh come out and said that she was planning to 425 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: meet That she's brushing off her boyfriend because at one 426 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: o'clock that afternoon she disappears that nine. About six and 427 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,919 Speaker 1: a half hours later, she writes in an email, I 428 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: got your messages, but honestly I don't feel like talking 429 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: to much of anyone. I promised to call today though. 430 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: Did she call him? I don't believe that they actually 431 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: spoke on the phone. I know that there were calls 432 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: that were back and forth with checking voicemails, and she 433 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: didn't actually talk to him on the phone, right tim. 434 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: I don't believe that's in the phone record. I think 435 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: she no. I think she called him and then he 436 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: called her pretty pretty much immediately. She didn't reach him, 437 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: and then he started calling her friends. It seems she 438 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: was intent on going to a hotel, because she called 439 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: around two oh five after or she calls or emails 440 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: emails the boyfriend that afternoon at one she calls a 441 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: number that gives you recorded information about booking hotels in 442 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: still Vermont to eighteen. She calls the BF again and 443 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: leaves a message saying they'll talk later. That was just 444 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: a message in her car, clothing, textbooks, um toiletries. Her 445 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: room was searched later and campus police found most of 446 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: her belongings packed in boxes and art removed from the walls. 447 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: There's yeah, they had there. There was a like the 448 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: spring break that they had just come back from. So 449 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people have told us that it's not 450 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: uncommon for everything to still be packed at that time. Huh. There, 451 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: semester starts later at U mass It starts at the 452 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: end of January, So that doesn't mean she was packing 453 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: up to lar It could have been she just arrived 454 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: a few days and on top of the boxes there 455 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: was a printed email to her boyfriend talking about trouble 456 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: in their relationship. Why was that printed out? Why would 457 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: you print out an email? That's a great question got us. 458 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: That's one of them. That's one of the mysteries of it. 459 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: She was alone that afternoon close to four o'clock, because 460 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: she was seen on an a t M with drawing 461 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: about almost three hundred bucks. She bought about forty bucks 462 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: worth of Booze Bailey's Irish cream Khalua vodka. Okay, this 463 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: was she was alone, because that's caught on video, and 464 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: she picked up accident report forms. I guess that was 465 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: for a crash with her dad's car, that's correct. Then 466 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: she leaves on interstate. She checks her voicemail at four 467 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: seven and that's it. That's correct. And the time, the 468 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 1: timing of that is is pretty accurate as far as 469 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: when you lose cell phone reception. Entering into New Hampshire, 470 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: entering into the White Mountain region, there was a hairpin turn. 471 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: As Tim and Lance told us, she goes off the road, 472 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: hits a tree. At that point, we think anyway or snowbank. 473 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: Somebody comes along driving a bus and neighbor asked if 474 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: she needs help. She says no. Ten minutes later, probably 475 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: nineteen minutes later, police show up. She's gone. That sounds 476 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: so staged to me, guys, and yeah, it does, it does. 477 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: It does seem very staged. But that means that there's 478 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: that means that there's somebody else involved that if it's staged. 479 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: Do you mean it sounds like she staged the accident, Yeah, 480 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: kind of. It does kind of sound that way, Yeah, 481 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: But no one has talked about it. Her friends have 482 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: supposedly talked to police, her family has supposedly talked to police. 483 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: Um enough to wear there they're satisfied they weren't involved 484 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: in helping her get away. And if I and I 485 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: just I find it really hard to believe that she 486 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: would pick that area to stage an accident. It's it's 487 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: it is a it is a remote area, but it's 488 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: not as remote as people think it's. It's one of 489 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: the only places on Rue one twelve that has homes 490 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: pretty much immediately in the vicinity she she would have 491 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: she would have staged an accident directly across the street 492 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: from somebody's home. And if she was planning on doing 493 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: a staged accident, I just don't Yeah, you know what, 494 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: you're right, why would she leave um all of her stuff, 495 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: including diamond jewelry in the vehicle? Right? The things that 496 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: she took with her are what I've been like calling 497 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: in my own head just to make sense, like immediate things. 498 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: If I'm if I think I'm coming back to some place, 499 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: if I'm on a trip and I take the things 500 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: that I need for a few days, but I need 501 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: to take off real quick, and I plan on coming back, 502 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm taking keys, wallet, and cell phone, and and that's 503 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: what she took locked the car, keys, wallet, and cell phone. 504 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: Um have never been recovered. So it doesn't seem unless 505 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: she's unless she's a criminal mastermind, it doesn't see. What 506 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: about the contract or eight to eight thirty, a contractor 507 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: returning home says, he said a young person moving quickly 508 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: on foot on Route one twelve that was around four 509 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: to five miles east of where her vehicle was discovered. 510 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: Now that person wearing Jane's a coat and a light 511 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: colored hood, what about that? Yeah? Do you do you 512 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: want to know my real feelings on that? Or maybe 513 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: let him go with it and I'll jump in. Well, yeah, 514 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: I think that that account is pretty suspicious, um because 515 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: he didn't tell that to police. He told that to 516 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: a neighbor of his, and the neighbor told police, and 517 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: then he was questioned after that, and his property was searched. 518 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: Pretty good, well, pretty pretty good after he left. He 519 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: actually wouldn't allow police on his property, and he was 520 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: living in his trailer at the time. He was building 521 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: a house on that same property. He sold his trailer, 522 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: and as soon as the trailer left, his property was 523 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: pulled over by police and searched. And as soon as 524 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: he sold his property as house, that property was searched 525 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: by police as well. Right and to both came up 526 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: at both searches came up empty. Guys White a minute, though, 527 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: isn't that what Mora was wearing a dark coat? James, Yeah, 528 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: but that that information had been out there for for 529 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: a while. He he could have known that by reading 530 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: the paper he lived. He lived right across from butch Atwood. 531 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: He lived within a hundred yards of the accident scene 532 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: and where he put mourra is at the area where 533 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: But if you think he's lying, why would he lie? 534 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he had something else hide, I'm 535 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: not I'm not sure why he likes why get involved 536 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: at all? I think because he lived so close to 537 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: the scene and he's a peculiar guy. Why do you 538 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: say that? By all accounts, By all accounts, we've heard 539 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: from a lot of locals in the area, and people 540 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: that that knew him and know him. Um, he's very 541 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: very strange, fellow. Strange in what way? What do you 542 00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: mean by that? Strange towards women? Um? Just kind of awkward. 543 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: Can I ask you what man is not? When you 544 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: say awkward? Does he have a criminal record? That's what 545 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: I want to know. I don't believe so married divorced? 546 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: He was married. He was divorced to children, two daughters. 547 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: He has two kids, lanced him pause one moment. I 548 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: don't know if you heard me earlier mentioned this, but 549 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: with us today, our sponsors simply safe. We've gotten this 550 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: for a lady in our neighborhood. Miss Shirley, who has 551 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: been our lifelong friend, is the age of my mom. 552 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: As a recent widow, she did not have an alarm system, 553 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: and she's had some scary incidents just recently, and there 554 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: have been some break ins in our neighborhood. And I 555 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: think about her every night. You know, I don't live 556 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: in Macon anymore, and I think about her being there 557 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: alone without an alarm. My mom has an alarm. We 558 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 1: have an alarm. But we got simply safe from Miss Shirley. 559 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: And even I'm sleeping better, much less you know her, 560 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: you get Tamperson off. Everybody simply safe dot com slash Nancy. 561 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: You just can't be safe enough. That's what I think. Okay, 562 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: so tell me this. Where does it stand? Now? What 563 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: does the family think? The Murray family, I think they're 564 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: not exactly sure what to think, but I think they 565 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: think that contractor is still a pretty good suspect and 566 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: as far as we know, he was and still is 567 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: law enforcements real only person of interest. Now, you know, 568 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: there's a theory floating around that she took off and 569 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: is living in Quebec. Have you heard that theory? Yeah? Yeah, 570 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: we went. We went to that Canada. Um, it's a 571 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: it's with missing missing flyers and everything. It's a it's 572 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: a it's a romantic theory. But the more we looked 573 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: into it, the more it's just not likely that someone 574 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: could cross the border. Um. The border restrictions had tightened 575 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: up since since two thousand one, so to across the border. 576 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: Everyone everyone uses her. Are you serious? You don't think 577 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: you can cross the Canadian border. I don't think you 578 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: could cross the Canadian border, get a job, and remain 579 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: under the radar in Canada for thirteen years now, I 580 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: don't think you could get a job stand to the 581 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: radar that. I think you can easily get across the border. 582 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: But what why was she asked to leave West Point? 583 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: She shop? Yeah, she wasn't asked to still some makeup 584 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: from from a gift shop. Guys, I'm sorry. I know 585 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: shoplifting is wrong. I know that, but I'm so used 586 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: to prosecuting you know, murderers, rape s, aggravated assaults, armed robberies, torture, 587 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: dope dealers. That a shoplifting like a just I'm not 588 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: happy about it. But so I know that broke her 589 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: father's heart by all accounts correct. Yeah, I think it's 590 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: safe to say that he wasn't um wasn't pleased with that. 591 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: But there are some some theories out there that she 592 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: might have wanted to get caught. She might not have 593 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: wanted to be there, and that was a way of 594 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: her rebelling against it and and leaving. I know that 595 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: the father was upset about her crushing the car. Do 596 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 1: we know anything else about that other than what he said, 597 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: which is he was upset, but it was the way 598 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: any parent would be upset. And they had talked about 599 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: it the next day and told her that, um, you know, 600 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 1: they discussed getting the proper insurance paperwork which she had 601 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: on her that we know, um, and they were going 602 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: to they were going to take care of it. It really, 603 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: it really doesn't seem like anything more, according to the family, 604 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: than she got into the accident. The family, the father 605 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: was upset, but they were figuring out a way to 606 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: fix it. So they have a big blowout the night 607 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: before over his crash car. The next day she crashes 608 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: her car and leaves never seen again. I'm not we're 609 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: not entirely sure that they had like a big blowout. 610 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: That's that's been put there, that's been put online, and 611 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: that's that's something that no one can tell us for sure. 612 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: They probably got an argument, I'm guessing, but that's just 613 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: I guess. I'm just you know, trying to trying to 614 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: not make it into something that it probably you know, 615 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: might you might be right, you might be right. But 616 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: the timing they have the argument over her totaling his car, 617 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: and the next day she disappears for good. Is that right? Yes? Yes, 618 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: Because the accident, that accident happened Saturday into Sunday, you know, 619 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: early morning, and then Sunday they discussed it and then yeah, 620 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: that's correct. Boy, that cousin really thinks she's living in 621 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,240 Speaker 1: Quebec and just took off and left and never came back. 622 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: That she stayed the accident, went down the street, met 623 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: her boyfriend and he picked her up her new boyfriend. 624 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: That that could be. That could be the case. But 625 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: from everything we've looked into on on Mora, she wasn't 626 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: a perfect young woman, but she got along with her 627 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: her dad. Her dad and her were buddies. They they 628 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: went on camping trips, they hiked. They didn't have, as 629 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: far as we know, a dysfunctional relationship. And it just 630 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it's in her character. From what we've 631 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: looked into, it doesn't seem like it's in her character 632 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: to um to to disappear from him for thirteen years 633 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: and put him through this. Well. Yeah, that's the confusing 634 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: thing is what what was happening in her life that 635 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 1: was so big that would make her want to run 636 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: away from We've never found anything for thirteen plus years, guys. 637 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: Let's put the tip line out there for anyone having information. 638 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: Ohmura Murray, tim Lance, do you have that number for me? Yes? 639 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: The new Hampshire State Police number is six oh three 640 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: to two three three eight six zero. Yes, that is 641 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: the best thing to do if you have any information 642 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: on Mora is to call the state Police. I know 643 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: the first instinct is to contact Tim and I, but 644 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: we turn around and we uh, we contact the proper 645 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: law enforcement guys. The search for more Murray goes on. 646 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace with Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend.