1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. All right, well, let's 2 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: take a look right now at how crypto prices are doing. 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: I want to bring in a very special guest right now. 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: I do want to welcome our Bloomberg TV and radio 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: audiences who are joining us now. Is our convest CEO 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: and CIO, Kathy. Would Kathy good to have you on 7 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: the program this afternoon. I want to start right with 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin and what you see as the outlook for bitcoins price. 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: In recent weeks, you've come out and said one point 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: five million dollars per bitcoin by the year twenty thirty. 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: Since then, though we've seen quite a few outflows, we've 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: seen a lot of volatility. Shanali just went through that. 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: Is that still your view one point five million by 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: twenty thirty, Yes. 15 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: It is our view. I think right now we're in 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: a risk off period generally, and if you've been watching bitcoin, 17 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: it's almost been a leader in terms of the risk 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: on risk off. So I think that's what we're seeing. 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 2: If we look at our on chain analytics, what we 20 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: see is I'm sorry as to get this off. If 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 2: you look at our on chain analytics, which you will see, 22 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: is that we are in the middle of a little 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: bit more than halfway through a four year cycle. We 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: think we're still in a bull market and we believe 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: that the deregulation that we're seeing here in the United 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: States is going to be very important to institutions moving 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: into this new asset class. As to the allocators have 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: to have a point of view on this new asset class, 29 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: and we think by putting it in portfolios, risk adjusted 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: returns for the entire portfolio will go up. 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,639 Speaker 3: One question I have to the point you're making here 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: on where the risk appetite stands around bitcoin versus other 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: asset classes. There has been a serious dip in markets, Kathy. 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: If you had to choose where you would buy the 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: dip the most, would it be in bitcoin, Tesla or Nvidia? 36 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Well, we post our trades every day 37 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 2: and you'll see that we've been buying Tesla and names 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: that mimic Bitcoin and other crypto assets like Coinbase, like 39 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 2: robin Hood, taking advantage of this risk off period. 40 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 3: So what does this mean in terms of where you 41 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: see things going. 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 4: Do you see more of a selloff. 43 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 3: Before things get better in these risk assets bitcoin or otherwise? 44 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 4: How do you know that we're not at the lows. 45 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: So one of the things we think is going on 46 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: right now is and Treasury Secretary Besson today said he 47 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: does not believe that we're going into a recession. We 48 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 2: think we've been in a rolling recession and that we 49 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: are actually going to see some negative quarters here, and 50 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: that's because the velocity of money is collapsing as people, 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: the labor force is worried that and we're talking about federal, state, 52 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: and local quasi government categories like education and healthcare. There's 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: a lot of fear around job security right now. So 54 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: we see the saving rate going up, we see the 55 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: velocity of money coming down, and we do think we'll 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: see one or two negative quarters. What we believe that 57 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: will do is set this administration up and the fed 58 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: up with more degrees of freedom for tax cuts and 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: perhaps lower interest rates or at least ending quantitative tightening. 60 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: What do you see as the rate path for this year? 61 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: The Federal Reserve kicking off, it's two day policy meeting today, 62 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: We're going to hear from j Powell tomorrow. How many 63 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: rate cuts do you see happening this year? 64 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: Kathy, Well, we tend not to be very short term 65 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: in our focus. But if we're right and inflation is 66 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: going to surprise on the low side of expectations, we 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised to see two or three cuts. Now, 68 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: if you look at an indicator called true inflation, it's 69 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: probably the broadest measure of inflation out there. It is 70 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: saying inflation is down to one point six y five percent, 71 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: well below where the FED is pinning it at roughly 72 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: the CPI's two point eight percent. And we believe that 73 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: the combination of actually food prices have started coming down, 74 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: even egg prices have started to collapse. As a matter 75 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: of fact, gasoline prices are coming down. We're seeing some 76 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 2: rent prices coming down. So we think inflation's going to 77 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: surprise on the low side of expectations for those reasons, 78 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: and because innovation is inherently deflationary, and our five innovation 79 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: platforms are all driving different kinds of deflation. Good deflation, 80 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: which you'll call it unit growth, but deflation nonetheless. So 81 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: we think the FED is going to have many more 82 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: degrees of freedom in the second half of this year. 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: Then most people think we could see more than the 84 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: number I just suggested, two to three cuts. 85 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: Hey, Kathy and I have spoken quite a bit over 86 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: the last few months. You were optimistic about the Trump administration, 87 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: specifically with regard to disruptive technology and your thesis, but 88 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: also with cryptocurrency. You just spoke about the easy regulatory 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: environment around crypto. I'm curious that what you think about 90 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: President Trump's relationship with crypto. The Wall Street Journal reported 91 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: that the Trump family has held deal talks with finance 92 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: following that guilty exchange plea. And then also you have 93 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: the President getting into meme coins, you have World Liberty Financial. 94 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: Are you at all concerned that the Trump family is 95 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: too close to crypto? 96 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think the Trump family is very supportive of crypto, 97 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: which is great. It's completely different from the environment we 98 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 2: had been In our view on mean coins, we are 99 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: not as focused on them. We would not be putting 100 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: them into our various private funds because and I think 101 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: that you know, the combination of AI and blockchain technology 102 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: is creating millions millions of these mean coins. We think 103 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: most of them are not going to be worth very much. 104 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 2: We think there are just going to be a few 105 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: crypto assets that will gain most of the spoils in 106 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: the entire ecosystem. 107 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: Kathy even some of the people who believe most firmly 108 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 3: in the crypto story here, they are still worried about 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: those mean coins and a lot of retail investors being 110 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 3: stuck holding the bag. 111 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: And another thing that's happening at the same time is you. 112 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: Have a lot of exchanges looking to loosen their listing standards. 113 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 4: Do you worry that this could go too far. 114 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 3: That too many coins that are going to hurt retail 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 3: ambassadors ultimately will be listed on too many exchanges. 116 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think that the SEC did a very important 117 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: thing in declaring these meme coins not securities. What they 118 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: essentially were saying is we are not going to regulate them, 119 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: and it's buyer beware. And so if I have one 120 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: message for those listening who are buying mean coins, buyer beware, 121 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: and I think the message is loud and clear from 122 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: the regulators. What we think will happen is there will 123 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: be some heresome declines in the prices of some of 124 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: these meme assets, and you know, there's nothing like losing 125 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: money for people to learn, and they'll learn that the 126 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 2: SEC and regulators are not taking responsibility for these mean coins. 127 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Buyer beware of what specifically, because you did say that 128 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: you believe that there are only certain crypto assets that 129 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: will gain the most spoils. What do buyers need to. 130 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: Be aware of that the millions of meme coins will 131 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: probably end up worthless. So, uh, when we're talking about 132 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: the big three, we're talking about Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana. The 133 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: use cases for those are multiplying, and we think they're 134 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: going to become very important in years ahead. Meme coins not. 135 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: So what about Trump's meme coin? Is that one of 136 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: the ones that you think will become worthless? Kathy? 137 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: You know it's interesting. Uh, the meme coins will be 138 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: collector's items, so digital collector's items, and so of course 139 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 2: some will withstand, uh, you know, will withstand the judgment 140 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: of time, and that may be one of them. That 141 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: our working assumption is that when you're talking about millions 142 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 2: of meme coins, you know that that's just a step 143 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: too far and that most of them are not going 144 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 2: to be worth very much. 145 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: Kathy, I want to switch gears here a little bit 146 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: and talk about something that I know you've been focusing 147 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 3: on a lot, tokenization. Now. 148 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 4: One question I have. 149 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: About this is do you think the investment community, particularly 150 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: the venture community, is underestimating how catastrophic this could be. 151 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 4: To their business model. 152 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 3: If you have companies that can raise money through tokens 153 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 3: rather than through traditional venture capital and go public this 154 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: way or list this way rather than through the traditional 155 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 3: listing process, is that a sea change coming for the 156 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 3: way that this has typically been done. 157 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 2: I actually think it's very complicated. But you know, in 158 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: terms of our own venture fund, and we did start 159 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 2: an Interval fund, which is a forty act fund, I 160 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: mean we could see tokenizing that, putting it on chain 161 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: and enabling many, many more people to get involved with 162 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 2: the private world. And I think other venture capital firms 163 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: could do much of the same thing. I do agree 164 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot more competition, a lot 165 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: more ways to fund new companies, So that is true 166 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: as well. So I'd say this new world's going to 167 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 2: be complicated. You know, when we hear Larry Fink of 168 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 2: Blackrock saying he wants to tokenize everything, you know, it's 169 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: big because it takes it takes a lot to move 170 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: the needle at Blackrock. So we're watching the token innovation 171 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: movement very closely for own purposes as well. 172 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 3: A little earlier, you said that when you look at 173 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: these dips, you've been trying to take advantage of them, 174 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: particularly in part through Coinbase and Robinhood. 175 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 4: I have a question about robin Hood in particular. Do 176 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 4: you think it looks more and. 177 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: More like coinbase in the future and to the extent 178 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 3: that you're buying more of it? Is it on the 179 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 3: thesis of expanded stock trading among retail investors, for election betting, 180 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: or expanded crypto trading. 181 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 4: What of those three things is your favorite thesis? 182 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: Well, our main thesis for both is we're looking for 183 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: the winners in the digital wallet space. Most of us 184 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: are not going to have many wallets. You can think 185 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: about this in the same way you think about credit cards. 186 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: Most of us don't have very many credit cards. So 187 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: we're looking for those winners. And you know, Robinhood and 188 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: Coinbase are coming at this from different angles, of course, 189 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: Coinbase from the crypto first angle and robin Hood from 190 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: more the equity end of the spectrum. Both of them 191 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: have to Robinhood has nailed the either interface. I think 192 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: Coinbase is putting a lot of effort into getting that 193 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: right as well. So we're looking at them as two 194 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: of the bigger winners. 195 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Hey, Kathy, revenut trouble. I'm a letter team. I'm going 196 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: to let our team work on that. In the meantime, 197 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: I do want to ask you a big picture question 198 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: about crypto, because I think for a lot of people 199 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: they look at these tokens as stores of value, as 200 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: bets that they'll go up in the future and they'll 201 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: be worth more and their portfolio will grow as a result. 202 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: When do you see use cases for crypto, maybe specifically bitcoin, 203 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: actually affecting us in the real world. You spoke about 204 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: tokenization just now, but when will we see crypto being 205 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: used as something else apart from just a store of value. 206 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 2: Well, I think what is happening with a stable coin movement, 207 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 2: which again that we're going to see deregulation and legislation 208 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: this year, we think, which will open the doors to 209 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 2: stable coins. So USDC that circles USDT, that's tethers, that's 210 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: the on ramp into defied decentralized financial services. So you're 211 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: already seeing lending and saving and yield harnessing taking place 212 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: on these ecosystems which are supported by Ethereum and Solana, 213 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: and of course you're seeing rapped bitcoin on ethereum as well. 214 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: So Bitcoin's trying to get into the game. But in 215 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: terms of real utility, if you go to emerging markets, 216 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 2: and I know this is not this market, but you 217 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: go to emerging markets where their currencies destroy purchasing power 218 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: and wealth with massive devaluations. So it's really their policy 219 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: leaders they are using bitcoin in particular, but also stable coins, 220 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: which is effectively the dollar as backstops to their purchasing 221 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: power and wealth because they've been through too many of 222 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: these devaluations. So I think the real utility if you're 223 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 2: looking at stable coins and bitcoin today is in the 224 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,679 Speaker 2: emerging markets really protecting consumers purchasing power and. 225 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: Well, Kathy, you have the great challenge of investing in 226 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 3: innovative solutions at a time where the market is nervous 227 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: and discounting the idea of putting more money to work 228 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: in innovation at the moment, and to the extent that 229 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: you could choose one single biggest conviction bet that you 230 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: would make right now, what is it and why? 231 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: Well, we've been we have been known for our Tesla 232 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: call and our Bitcoin call, and those still stand as 233 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: two of our biggest calls. For sure, I would add 234 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: in the AI age platform as a service companies like 235 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: Pallenteer which are really enabling large enterprises to move into 236 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: this AI age and enjoy the efficiencies, the cost effectiveness 237 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: and to create products and services. Those I think are 238 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: going to be very big as well. 239 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 3: Absolutely fascinating ARC and best Kathy, would we thank you 240 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 3: so much for joining us today looking ahead of the 241 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: curve a little bit and some thoughts on how to 242 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 3: get into the ability to buy this dip. 243 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time.