1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: I've never told you, a production of I heard yo, 3 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: And welcome to another installment of fictional Women around the World, 4 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: a subsegment of our ongoing segments Women around the World. 5 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: And last time we focused on Abby from the Last 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: of US two, and yes, this time we're going to 7 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: focus on the other side of her. Are the same 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: side as my friend likes to say very loudly Ellie 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: from the last of US one and two. So there 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: will be spoilers, but again, I feel like at this 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: point I've spoiled it for everybody was listening. Yeah, I 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: think if you have not played or know about it, 13 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: but you've listened to any of our video games Women Assassins, 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: any of those characters ones you already know, so sorry 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: but not sorry. Sorry, Well here's your morning now. Just 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: in case, andy O. There has been a lot of 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: news about the casting of the show the HBO series, 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: and Bella Ramsey has been cast as a young Ellie, 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 1: which I got in my head thinking about this about 20 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: how I've spoiled the show because before those like people 21 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: don't play the game, like you know whatever. But now 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: that there's going to be a show I might have 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: done spoiled up for you. Well, I'm thinking too, like 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm really bad about if I read a book before 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: a movie and when it changes, I'm really piste off. 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: So I'm really kind of scared that I'm gonna be 27 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: really angry with the show since I know all of 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: these things. You didn't spoil it for me because I 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: actually watched you play it, or actually watched my partner 30 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: play it while you watched him. It was weird. It's 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: a strange time. Yeah, I'm I'm really really interested in 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: how people are going to react. I have heard the 33 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: creators say that it's gonna vat storyline wise in some ways, 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: so who knows. But I imagine this is like I 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: have a couple of good friends who when the Game 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: of Thrones, like the Haitia of Game of Thrones, I 37 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: would just see them get this look of like cool, 38 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: trying not to react, and I'd be like, oh, I 39 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: can't wait for the next episode and maybe like mm hmmm, 40 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: and then it's the Red Wedding or whatever I'm imagining, 41 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: like maybe this will be my time to have that experience. Yeah, honestly, though, again, 42 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,399 Speaker 1: I keep talking about the fact that I'm one four, 43 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: I need you to spoil things for me, and that 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: if it's going to be bad, I need that warning 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: because I will hate you and hate it without that warning. 46 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: And so when I got the spoiler about the Red Wedding, yeah, 47 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: I was at least prepared because I would have been distraught, 48 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: like I think I would have been destroyed. And then 49 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: I only came back when I was spoiled that Jeoffrey 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: was gonna die, Like I stopped watching it because of that, 51 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: and then I found out that he was going down, 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: It's like, okay, I can continue on. Then, so for 53 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: some maybe it's a good thing. Good thing it could be. 54 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: And I think I brought this up in the Abbey one, 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: but I remember when people are like, oh, paedro Puscal 56 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: is going to be in it. Um he said everything 57 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: right now, and I was like, oh, you know, when 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: somebody gets really popular in a show like Mandalorian, they 59 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: show open everything for a while. It was the same 60 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: with Game of Throwance and I totally forgot he was 61 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: in Game Throws and he died, brute. That was not fun. 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: I was real upset about that one, Like everyone was, yeah, God, 63 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: I'm so frustrating years later, still still and yeah, I'm 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: just put in here. I campaign to play Abbey in 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: the show, but I would love to play l Ee too. 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: I think we have similar experiences. I'm queer, I've gone 67 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: through trauma, had a similar relationship with my dad. Plus 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: I love her and I'm ready, so get in touch. 69 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: I was like texting my friend about, like we gotta 70 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: get in the show, and she said, yes, we could 71 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: be zombies, and I was like, I'm aiming higher, but 72 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: I would take a zombie too. Now I'm to go 73 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: back and see if you and Bella Rae. Does he 74 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: look similar to each other? Yeah, that's true. That will 75 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: deep fake thing. It was good of them in the game, 76 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: but it freaked me out deep fakes in general. Freaking out. Yeah, 77 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: me too. I don't I don't love him, don't do that. Yeah, 78 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: don't do that to me. But yes, and I will 79 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: accept any Yeah, you do look like you should play, 80 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: Ellie notes thank you. So I know I've talked about 81 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: these games several times in the show, so I've been 82 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: very short. Synopsis the zombies, It's seem curable. It's a violent, 83 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,119 Speaker 1: dying world. Amy Ellie, she's a fourteen year old orphan 84 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: who has been taken in by the head of this 85 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: organization called the Fireflies, and the leader her name is Marlene. 86 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: It turns out Ellie is immune and as Joel, the 87 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: character you're playing, transports her across the country deliver her 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: to the Fireflies to make a vaccine. They bond, of course, 89 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: despite his gruff resistant nature. He plays Ellie for one 90 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: portion of the game for one season because it's split 91 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: into seasons, and she is the primary protagonist of the 92 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: DLC the downloadable content um left Behind and is the 93 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: main protagonist I would say, but I guess you could 94 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: debate me on that one. In the last voice too. 95 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: There's also a comic book about her American dream and 96 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: Ellie is voiced and motion captured by Ashley Johnson. Yes, 97 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: who I know from The Avengers, but I know was 98 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: in another thing. She was a child star. Yeah, so 99 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: that's how I know her. And her voice is very distinct, 100 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: like hadn't changed much. So the minute I heard her, 101 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, wait, I know this voice. Yes, 102 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: she does have a very distinct distinct voice. So when 103 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: this game first came out in two it was a 104 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: huge critical success, like it is the reason I bought 105 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: a PlayStation three at the time. For people like me 106 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: growing up playing video games and in particular, role playing games, 107 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: Ellie was a breath of fresh air. She was funny, sarcastic, curious, competent, brave, 108 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: had the mouth of a sailor. She subverts that innocent, quiet, 109 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: young girl we've discussed before, which is something she absolutely 110 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: uses and chafes against. Hills will like manipulate people's perception 111 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: of that. And she's very deadly and good with all 112 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: kinds of weapons, though the first one. She's a scrawny 113 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: kid who hasn't had a lot of experience, so she 114 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: has to rely a lot on stealth. She does save 115 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: Joel on more than one occasion, who we see her 116 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: kill her first uninfected person to save Joel, and then 117 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: all the lengths she goes to, including taking on infected 118 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: and cannibals to heal him later. She's not great with authority. 119 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: She can be reckless and impulsive, definitely struggling with PTSD 120 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: and survivors guilt. One of her lines at the end 121 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: is I'm still waiting my turn because she got bitten 122 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: and never turned. She wanted her life to mean something, 123 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: and she later claims she was ready to die for 124 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: the vaccine. She wanted to save the world, and Joel 125 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: took that from her and doomed the world instead. And 126 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: his character was very well received too. When she came out, 127 00:06:53,360 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: which again generally women in games aren't, he thinks because 128 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: she was a child, in a preteen And I think 129 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: she because she depended on the male character largely for protection. Yes, 130 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: I totally think so. Not for women, but for dude, 131 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: the doodles. As you told me, the doodles. I love 132 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: that word. So that love did change with the second one, 133 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: when she was darker, harsher, and more brutal. We will 134 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: talk about that in a second. But in the first 135 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: one there's one character in particular, David, who really traumatizes her. 136 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: He's implied to be a pedophile, and he tries to 137 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: get her to join him, treating her as the sweet 138 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: young girl. He uses a patronizing voice, he calls her 139 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: out when she curses like it's not becoming of her. 140 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: And when he realizes Ellie is not going to go 141 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: along with him and with this cannibal community, after many 142 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: many signals, including like biting and breaking his finger, he 143 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: stocks her and tries to kill her. She violently murders David, 144 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: and this is when most of what was left of 145 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: her innocence is just George. You see it. It's one 146 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: of the few games where you actually see in the 147 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: next part of the game. In the next section, she's 148 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: like visibly distraught and distant. And it's a betrayal too, 149 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: because she did trust David for a minute, like she 150 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: trusted Joel, who also ended up betraying her. We don't 151 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: know much about Ellie's parents other than that they're dead. 152 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: She's queer. According to the creative director, she's a lesbian 153 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: and she is the first gay star of any Blockbuster game, 154 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: and her first relationship was a little before the game 155 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: started with her best friend Riley, who is a young 156 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: girl and very tragic. You right imagine what happened there. 157 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: Ellie grew up at kind of a military prep school 158 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: in Boston's quarantine zone and has never been outside of 159 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: a quarantine zone until the first game, so she's really 160 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: curious about the outside world and what things were like 161 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: before the zombie outbreak. She does have kind of that 162 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: innocent curiosity in that way. At one point she asked 163 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: why people used to try to be thin like that 164 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: idea makes no story. And there's a really beautiful scene 165 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: of her playing an arcade game in her imagination or 166 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: going to space and her imagination. She wants to be 167 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: an astronaut when she grows up, but she sees rafts 168 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: for the first time. See those instances of childlike wonder. 169 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: She has a book of puns, which I love, and 170 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: you can get her to tell puns. She collects comics, 171 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: she likes music and drawing. Eventually Joel teaches her how 172 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: to play the guitar. All these points of like innocence 173 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: and normalcy in this real, must up world that she's 174 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: coming of agent. She does admit to not believing in 175 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: God or religion and that the thing she is most 176 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: afraid of is being alone, which breaks my heart breaks smart. 177 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: So moving on to the second game, Ellie, like we 178 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: talked about with Abby, is one of the best when 179 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: it comes to surviving and fighting infected, though she is 180 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: still more reliant on stealth and her superpower of being immune, 181 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: which does come into andy. Her reflexes are really quick. 182 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: There's one part where someone goes to Stafford and she 183 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: catches her wrists that stops her and then rest the 184 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: pla away. It was really impressive and then very very 185 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: very gruesome. At nineteen, she is much more subdued and 186 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: mature in this one, but there are pieces of her 187 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: humor that still shine through. Designers went out of their 188 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: way to give her eyes quote somberness in this one. 189 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: She hides her bite mark, which would reveal her immunity 190 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: with a tattoo, and there is a tension between her 191 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: and Joel, so he has taught her to play guitars, 192 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: promise how to swim. She starts dating Dina, and that's 193 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite lines, when Ellie says I'm just 194 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: a girl and Tina says, oh, Ellie, they should be 195 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: terrified of you. Yes, And after a traumatic event, Dina 196 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: and Ellie traveled the country to find Abby and get revenge. 197 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: Ellie was determined to go, despite not having any backup, 198 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: any resources, and also having no idea what they're going 199 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: up against. She is absolutely persistent and single minded. Again, 200 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: I feel like we could be talking about Abbie. She 201 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: gets majorly injured and keeps going. More than once. She 202 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: destroys an entire camp of cannibals single handedly after being 203 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: impaled by a tree and yeah, she's uh, she's traumatized. 204 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: So again, I think this is a case of grief 205 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: being so new, she was consumed by it, and she 206 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: chooses revenge over living people she loves on more than 207 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: one occasion. But that does change as time goes on. 208 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: Now that her purpose was taken from her saving the 209 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: world with a vaccine, getting revenge for Joel replaces that void. 210 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: Her tattoo as a moth is meant to symbolize this 211 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: obsession and being drawn to the light um just kind 212 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: of mindlessly following it. The pursuit kind of destroys the 213 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: happiness she she created and it taints her happy memories. 214 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: Abby spared Ellie, Ellie spired Abbey after realizing what Abby realized, 215 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: revenge isn't going to help you and healing your pain. 216 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: I remember I got this game in the veil. The 217 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: image on the cover, her face is terrified. It is 218 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: a terrifying embodiment of female rage and revenge. When I 219 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: first got it was like, oh, this is gonna hurt, 220 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: And on the back it says something like get ready 221 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: for a brutal landscape of devastating Like oh no. Also, 222 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: while researching this episode, I just read the straight plot 223 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: of the second one, just like a straight synopsis, and 224 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: I was like, God, this game is so sad. It 225 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: is so sad. Neil Jackman, the creator said, I landed 226 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: on this emotional idea of can we, over the course 227 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: of the game make you feel this intense hate that 228 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: is universal in the same way that unconditional love is universal. 229 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: And I have to say, the headlines in reviews for 230 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: this game are hilarious or like be prepared to be 231 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: punched in the face continually. You're gonna vomit all you 232 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: would be so sad. Yeah, And I felt a lot 233 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: of camaraderie with people who who wrote they cried for 234 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: hours in these reviews, or that it changed them apparently 235 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: the story was so dark. Some of the creative team 236 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: actually protested. Yes, and I can attest to the crying 237 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 1: loudly even playing these three times, like the third time round, 238 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: third time round. Yes, oh yeah. And a lot of 239 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: people really did not like seeing Ellie this way, the 240 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: way she was in the second one. They didn't like 241 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: that she was the main character like we were talking about. 242 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: They didn't like the things that she did and didn't 243 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: do in her quest for revenge. That's one of the 244 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: things that gets me the most is people were like, 245 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: don't do it, Ellie, don't do it, and then at 246 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: the end they're mad that she doesn't do it right, 247 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: and I would argue, you're not Again, you're not supposed 248 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: to feel great after this game. You're not supposed to 249 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: feel great about the things that Ellie's dine. Some also 250 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: didn't like she was gay. According to the actor Johnson, 251 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: even after the kiss Left Behind between Ellie and Riley Um, 252 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 1: fans would come up to her and be like, but 253 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: she's not gay, right, and the second one, Ellie is 254 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: confronted with homophobia. Johnson said, I'm an incredibly private person, 255 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: but when I do get to talk with people about 256 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: this game, especially fans who are younger and figure themselves out, 257 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm oftentimes just reduced to a puddle of tears. I've 258 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: met teenagers who played the first game and Left Behind 259 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: and said that it helped them feel comfortable coming out. 260 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: It's gone so far past just being a game for me. Yeah, yeah, 261 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: And I did want to include this so from time 262 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: last year, the website Feminist Frequency found that the number 263 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: of video games of female protagonists at the e three Expo, 264 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: the premier video game Expo was lower in twenty nineteen, 265 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: and then it was when the hashtag gamer game movement 266 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: caught fire. So yeah, that's bad, that's so bad. Why 267 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: did it change? I don't know. I mean I would 268 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: imagine gammer gate does have something to do with it, 269 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: and kind of a backlash against what people see is 270 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, social justice Warrior, right, and then the new 271 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: stats that there are now more women playing games than men, 272 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: but that head number has gone down for actual protagonists. 273 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: That's absurd. It is, It absolutely is. And this is 274 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, when when we talk about this game as 275 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: we have in the backlash against it, like we just have, 276 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: this world is still so the gaming world is still 277 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: so toxic in a lot of ways and as a 278 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: lot but this game has now want so many awards, 279 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: more than any other game. Yeah, so kudos to that. 280 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely. So Yeah, that's my story of Ellie. I 281 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: will promise I will step away from the last of 282 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: us video games for the next one. Are you because 283 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: I thought you had that set up with your friend 284 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: Katie to return to it. So both if you can 285 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: hate each other, don't I sound like a wonderful friend. 286 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: There are other characters. I want to return to you, 287 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: but I'll take a break. I'll take a break for now. Alright, alright, alright, 288 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: Well in the meantime, listeners, if you have any suggestions 289 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: for fictional women we should cover, please email them to us. 290 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: Our email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at I Hurt 291 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: me dot com. You can also find us on Twitter 292 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've 293 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: Never Told You thinks. It's always to our super producer Christina. 294 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Christinaina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff 295 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You The production of I Heart Radio. 296 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visits, I Hear Radio, app, 297 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, and wherever you listen to your favorite show.