1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants hust Let's go. 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Let's go, Giants Out the Giants bubbling, give me some joke. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Part of the Giants podcast network. 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 2: Let's Roll. 5 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: The Giants Huddle is brought to you by Citizens, the 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: official bank of the New York Giants. From game day 7 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: celebrations to your everyday financial needs, Big Blue fans can 8 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: get the most out of every moment with Citizens. Learn 9 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: more at Citizens bank dot com slash Giants. As we 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: welcome you to the Hackensack Meridian Health podcast studio, Keep 11 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: getting Better. Bob Papa joined by Serious XM's Matt Simms 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: to talk a little Big Blue and Matt had a 13 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: chance to watch practice the other day, very spirited practice. 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: What was the first impression that you got in watching 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: the Giants in person as you watch them go about 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: their work. 17 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 3: I think the excitement of the quarterback room, the addition 18 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: of Russell Wilson, the fact that the offense the team 19 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 3: seems to be responding extremely well to him and his presence, 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: UH and just the way that he carries himself. He 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 3: carries himself as a veteran quarterback and a quarterback that's 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 3: won a Super Bowl. So I think those things are 23 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 3: very important and ultimately they lead to a little bit more. 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 3: Just that stuff kind of spreads a little bit more 25 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 3: out to the rest of the football team when you 26 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: have confidence in the position. 27 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: Jameis Winston obviously brings veteran experience. He was a former 28 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: number one overall pick in the National Football League. He's 29 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: been there, done that. It's a very unique room, isn't it. 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 3: It is it is. I mean, they got it all man. 31 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 3: It's kind of like me and you, you know, doing 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: this together. You know, we're not exactly the same cat, 33 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: but we got different ways to do it and we 34 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: have fun doing it. The same thing for that quarterback room. 35 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: And I think that's what's really fun for day Ball 36 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 3: is that he's got four guys that are more than 37 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 3: capable of doing it. And the biggest thing for him 38 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 3: in Kafka is really just finding what that right recipe 39 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 3: is for each one if they do have the opportunity 40 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 3: to be the guy. 41 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: Jackson Dark continues to get better and better, and he 42 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: made a play in practice on Monday. 43 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 3: That had us both like, Wow, yeah, this is what 44 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 3: we expected, right, is these wow type of football plays? 45 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 3: And he was dropping back looked to his left, wasn't there, 46 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 3: escaped out of the pocket, was being chased, running full 47 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 3: speed right, full speed to his right, and he saw 48 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 3: someone open coming across the middle. I actually should have 49 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: taken a note of who the completion was to, but 50 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 3: I was so impressed by the actual throw. But full 51 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: speed run, turned, contorted his upper body and absolutely ripped 52 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: a laser beam across the middle of the field through it, 53 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,920 Speaker 3: so damn hardy fell over. So just the athleticism and 54 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 3: the ability to make those type of dynamic throws I 55 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: think are extremely important for the position, especially modern football. 56 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: And Jackson Dart did a bilivy yesterday, so a really 57 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: small example of what we expect to see from him 58 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 3: going forward. 59 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: And then let's talk a little bit about Tommy DeVito, 60 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: because you know, he's the local kid. He's the guy 61 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: that's familiar with this offense, having been in it now 62 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: in year number three. But you know, when you're the 63 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: fourth quarterback, the reps are very limited. But it seems 64 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: like anytime he gets a rep, he wins. His rep 65 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: might only be two, it might only be two throws 66 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: at the end of a period, but his batting average 67 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: has been off the hooks so far this preseason. 68 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, his batting, I mean, he's Hall of Fame batting 69 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 3: average right now. But you're right, he had a few 70 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: plays yesterday. And what I love is as soon as 71 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: he steps into the huddle behind the line of scrimmage, 72 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 3: there's a presence there of a guy who is very comfortable, right, 73 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: and the most comfortable quarterback in this QB room, right, 74 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: the most experienced with the head coach, with the offensive coordinator. 75 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: So when he is playing, you can definitely see that 76 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: confidence that he has in the position. And it's not 77 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 3: it's not like this parlor truck anymore. This dude's got it. 78 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 3: He's an NFL backup. He can do it, and it's 79 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: really impressive. And for me being a Homer and all that, 80 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: I don't have to say it in a sense of like, oh, 81 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: it's like it's a game where it's like this party favor, right. No, 82 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: this guy's an NFL quarterback. He is a high level 83 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: football player and made tremendous decisions yesterday but also delivered 84 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 3: the football with a lot of accuracy and a lot 85 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: of power. And man, he looks really sharp right now 86 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 3: early in. 87 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: Camp, right, And we'll see how this whole competition shakes out, 88 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: but the Giants know full well that you ain't sneaking 89 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: him on the practice squad. That story, that narrative is 90 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: over with. They were doing something yesterday, and I think 91 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: this is you know, the media will chart throws and 92 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: who's hit this, and who's throwing this many touchdowns right, 93 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: who's throwing interceptions? And it's common for all thirty two teams. 94 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: People are shooting videos during the practices. But something happened 95 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: yesterday that I kind of never really noticed, but you 96 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: and I were standing in the end zone and it 97 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: was during one of those periods where offense does not 98 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: work against defense, and they were working on cadence snapcount. 99 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: Share with the audience what this is all about, because 100 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: it seems so basic, but you hear with some teams 101 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: are having some issues with new quarterbacks and snapcount that 102 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: it's something that I think all of us that watch 103 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: football cover football don't realize the amount of work that 104 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: goes into it and why it's so important. It is 105 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: extremely important. 106 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: It's something I think that in modern football sometimes we 107 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: tend to overlook, especially in college football nowadays, where everything 108 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: is on the clap. Look at the sideline and go 109 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 3: back in the NFL, though that is not the case 110 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: in the NFL. This is a vital tool to the 111 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 3: success of your offense, to the rhythm of your offense, 112 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: to the power that your quarterback has, and controlling and 113 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 3: game the tempo of the game, managing the football game 114 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,799 Speaker 3: the big picture. And when we saw that exercise, Russell 115 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 3: Wilson was the starting quarterback on the field. He was 116 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: going through his mechanics at the line of scrimmage. We 117 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: saw the other three quarterbacks essentially miming Russell Wilson's body language, 118 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: the tone in which was saying the cadence, and that 119 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: is so important with teams that I've been a part of. 120 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 3: We had had multiple sessions essentially almost like listening sessions 121 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: right where you would go into that room, the starting 122 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 3: quarterback would give their cadence. We would go through all 123 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 3: the different cadence that we had in certain situations that 124 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 3: we knew would be important, and the other quarterbacks had 125 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 3: to essentially copy and paste what they heard and do 126 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: their best to copy the rhythm, the tone, and the 127 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: pace as much as possible of that starting quarterback. So, 128 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: for whatever reason, if someone rolls an ankle, or this 129 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: or that. You can go in and immediately go through 130 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 3: the procedure without any hiccups or repercussions. For the rest 131 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 3: of the team, huddle up, get in here. 132 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: If you're lined up here, you gotta go over the 133 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: middle with at the score great. How do we make 134 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: that happen? I don't know, But Citizen does makes sense 135 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: of your money with citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning, 136 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: And that has. 137 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: To be a very unique challenge for like, let's just 138 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: say Jackson Dart. Jackson Dart has been the man at 139 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: Old Miss for the last three years. Right, he has 140 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: his cadence, Yes, he has his own rhythm. Jameis Winston 141 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: has been a starting quarterback in this league. You know. 142 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: Now he's been an off the bench starting quarterback, but 143 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: for his first bulk of his career in Tampa, he 144 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: was the guy, Right, he was the starting quarterback. How 145 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: hard is that from a Jackson Dart standpoint, specifically as 146 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: a rookie to be able to now say I've got 147 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: to delete my way of doing it because I need 148 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: to do it. How Russell Wilson does it. 149 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's a process that everyone in the NFL 150 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: has to go through at some point where you kind 151 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 3: of have to leave some of the things that really 152 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: got you there to the door right behind and start 153 00:07:54,480 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 3: to reshape, reframe, polish what you've always done. And for Jackson, hey, 154 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 3: this is no problem at all. Like to learn from 155 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: a Super Bowl winning quarterback and a guy who's been 156 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 3: around the league as long as he has and has 157 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 3: been as successful as he has. Now I know recently 158 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 3: it's not quite so favorable in the media and the 159 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 3: narrative that surrounds Russell Wilson, But that being said, Russell 160 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 3: Wilson is a pro. Russell Wilson, for the majority of 161 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: his career was one of the top ten quarterbacks in 162 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: the NFL. So Jackson Dart I think, although it may 163 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: be difficult to put aside what he has learned through 164 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 3: the years and to dive feet first, headfirst into whatever 165 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: Russell and Dable and all of them are doing. But 166 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: at the same time, man, I mean, it's an awesome 167 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: guy to learn from, It's an awesome guy to be 168 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 3: around and to go through the mechanics that way, because 169 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 3: clearly Russell has played long enough to have gone through 170 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 3: a lot of different scenarios and situations, and when you're 171 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: playing for a team like the Seattle Seahawks and Pete 172 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: Carroll and you're playing in these hostile environments. He's definitely 173 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 3: learned a few tricks that most rookies would not even 174 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: really actually think is a part of the NFL game. Yet, 175 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 3: share the. 176 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: Story with our audience that you've told me about being 177 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: a young quarterback being in Atlanta. Yeah, Matt Ryan is 178 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: the starting quarterback, one of the best quarterbacks in the 179 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: NFL at the time, and what it was like in 180 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: a meeting room to the detail of you know, fans, again, 181 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: in the media, we think of watching film, knowing your playbook, 182 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: all these other things, but like you guys spend a 183 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: lot of time on snapcount. Yeah, and just like this 184 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: little room that we're in here right now, Matt Ryan 185 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: would Matt Lafour, Hey, Matt, can you stand up real quick? 186 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: Matt Ryan, get up, and he'd go through his procedure 187 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: of his snapcount as if it was the real deal, 188 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 3: and you could see it too, and it's so amazing. 189 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 3: It's like a method actor almost right, Like as soon 190 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: as he got into that position, you knew that he 191 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 3: saw the line of scrimmage, he saw the defense, said 192 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,559 Speaker 3: green Ady you know, the hand mechanics, all this, the 193 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 3: body language, the forward lean, even the subtle thing like 194 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 3: Matt Ryan spot it out immediately. For me, I would 195 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 3: have my hands at the side a lot, and then 196 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: right before this my hands would go up. He's like, man, 197 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: he goes. Everyone knows when the snap is coming. He doesn't. 198 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what you say, he goes. You got 199 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 3: to keep it the same every time. So that's something 200 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 3: that for me being in the fourth or fifth year 201 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 3: in the NFL, you know, Matt Ryan's like, hey, man, 202 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: that you got to clean that up a little bit, 203 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: you know. And that's the discussions that you have in 204 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 3: a QB room that it's tough for US fans and 205 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: media right to really see that, but that's the amount 206 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: of detail that you're going through with each other. And 207 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 3: for Matt Ryan, he was a great support system for 208 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 3: me as a young football player trying to be a 209 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 3: Matt Ryan kind of guy one day. And that's what 210 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: this quarterbacks room is going to do for themselves too, right, 211 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: because ultimately one guy plays the rest. Hey you're a caddy. 212 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: You're a caddy. 213 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: You gotta be. 214 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: You got to know which club to use and when 215 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: and why it's important. But the only difference is is 216 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: that you got to be able to be the guy 217 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: hitting the ball too, So you got to go from 218 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 3: being a caddy to them being Tiger Woods and getting 219 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 3: it on the green and one shot, you know, when 220 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 3: it called upon. So Matt Ryan did a great job 221 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: of that with me. Matt Shaw was another great resource 222 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: for me. Jackson Dart has Jameis Winston and Russell Wilson. 223 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 3: I mean that that is awesome. Now, hey, two different 224 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 3: football players, but still to hear the opinions of two 225 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 3: different players and how they go about the game. It's 226 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 3: just it's more experience and evidence and information that Jackson 227 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: can can use it as disposal but makes sense to 228 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: him or just say, hey, that's a good way. I'm 229 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: glad that I worked for you. It's a good way 230 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: to think about it. It's not quite my style or 231 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 3: my fit, but nonetheless having that information at your disposal 232 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: is very important. 233 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: You're so fired up. You got Paul Latino fired up. 234 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: I know. I mean we should have yelled at Paul 235 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: when he walked in. He does he not know the 236 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 3: deal here? I mean he just walks right in front 237 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 3: of the camera. I mean even Pierce's like, what the 238 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: hell are you doing, Paul? He loves this isn't a 239 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: serious show, Paul, Yeah, he. 240 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: Loves doing shows. Yeah, So let's talk a little bit 241 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: about this offensive Obviously, Andrew Thomas is on the pup 242 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: list right now, so Hudson's getting a lot of reps 243 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: at left tackle, rotating people in and out. We've talked 244 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: about on this podcast a lot about Evan Neil and 245 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: what we've seen out of him. It certainly looks like, 246 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: at least on paper, well not just on paper, but 247 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: from what we've seen in practices that there's a lot 248 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: more competition going on on this offensive line. 249 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is good. It's healthy for everybody. It's healthy 250 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: for all the skilled players too, because every year it's 251 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: that old school saying, we go where you go, and 252 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 3: we're always talking about who the O line and the 253 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 3: D line. They are who set the tone for every 254 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 3: football team across the NFL. That's why we're always talking 255 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 3: about the same group of eight to ten teams every year, 256 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 3: because they got talent the defensive offensive line, and they 257 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 3: could be physical and they could push bodies around, and 258 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: for Evan Neil, John Michael Smith's ye he's a little 259 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 3: bit of an undersized center. He's definitely put on some 260 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 3: weight and some strengthier this offseason, so that's important. But 261 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 3: now having a guy like Evan Neil who is getting 262 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 3: reps at guard right, it gives your team a little 263 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 3: bit of a flexibility with whoever that that sixth or 264 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 3: seventh man is at the line of scrimmage, to know 265 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: that we can move some pieces around, we can kind 266 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 3: of make it work because again, injury always plays a factor, 267 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: right with every team and their offensive lines. The amount 268 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: of times these guys get rolled up in passing situations 269 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: and run games all that. So having Evan Neil with 270 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 3: that size and that ability to anchor in passing situations 271 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: like a tackle, but to still put all of that 272 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: size and lean in a run game is very important. 273 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 3: And that's why I think even Skataboo his health, you know, 274 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: is an important thing because getting some of those tough, 275 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 3: dirty yards and critical situations where everybody in the damn 276 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 3: stadium knows that it's a run, right, you still got 277 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 3: to get those things done. 278 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: Receiver position Gunner Oshewsky had an incredible end of practice yesterday, 279 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: made some act rebatic catches. Montreal Washington asserted himself, Jalen 280 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: Hyatt had a really good practice. I guess a lot 281 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: is going to be said though on Saturday, when the 282 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: Giants play in Buffalo against the Bills. We have no 283 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: idea who's going to play. But I think some of 284 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: the names that I just mentioned are obvious choices, barring 285 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: some injuries, that they're going to get some reps. And 286 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of interesting this back end of 287 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: the receiving core of who's going to step up and 288 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: assert themselves and make themselves part of the equation. 289 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 3: It's extremely important. I would say that's that's probably one 290 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 3: of the first things you kind of notice about the 291 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 3: football team is that we know who the first three are, 292 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 3: who are going to be four and five that really 293 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 3: kind of fit their roles really well. And of course 294 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: every defense is going to be focused on who Malik 295 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: nighbors rightfully, so he's the most explosive football player on 296 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 3: the team. He's a guy that can take a slant 297 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: and go and take it to the house, right That's important, 298 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: But we do you know, the offense needs to protect 299 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: him in ways formationally shifts most to give him opportunities 300 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: to do stuff outside of the norm to make it 301 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: difficult for defenses, but a lot of that pressure also 302 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: though it goes to the rest of the receiving room too, 303 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: to make sure that they can alleviate some of that pressure. 304 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 3: For Russell Wilson, for wherever the quarterback is the running 305 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: game to making sure that they can really attack defenses 306 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: with the skill group they have. And Russell we haven't 307 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: seen it much in the past in his career of 308 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: really having a bona fide tight end or highlighting the 309 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 3: tight end. But I do think with this offense with 310 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 3: Johnson with Bellinger, that has to be a big aspect 311 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 3: of their game and how they develop as an offense 312 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: going forward. 313 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: If you want to know how to manage two minutes 314 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're 315 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk 316 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care I'd 317 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: like to learn about amliar routine. Yes, I knew I 318 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: could help make sense of your money with Citizens. 319 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: And I think his fans watch the game on Saturday. 320 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: I think they really need to focus on special teams, 321 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: who's returning, who's returning kickoffs? He says, you have Amir 322 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: Smith Marsette, it's getting more reps as a receiver. We 323 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: know what he can do in the return game. Definitely 324 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: gave the Giants a boost. Gunner Rozewski, who missed all 325 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: of last season because of injury reserve two years ago 326 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: he had a punt return for a touchdown Montreal Washington 327 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: has been fielding punts in practice. So you know, if 328 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: you're a fan, don't throw that part of the preseason 329 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: game away. Don't say, well, that's first preseason game of 330 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: the year. You know, No, because these guys that are 331 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: getting reps how you handle a punt, how you handle 332 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: a kickoff, how you return it, are all going to 333 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: go into this hopper at the end of training camp 334 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: to determine who's going to get that last receiver spot. 335 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 3: And what I thought was great about our conversation with 336 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 3: Joe Shane the other day is is that they the 337 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 3: Giants do a great job of making that very known 338 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 3: to the players who are are kind of on that 339 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: fringe of yeah, you're not in the top five or 340 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 3: six of this group, but you are in the top 341 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: one or two in special teams, and that is your 342 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: path to make in the roster and there's so many 343 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 3: football players, there's so many stories. Even a friend of 344 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: mine too that that I grew up with here in 345 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 3: the New Jersey area played nine years in the league. 346 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 3: Blakeer Stan's a guy right went to Lehigh and really 347 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 3: good middle linebacker, but he had to make his keep 348 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: and earn his keep on special teams and he became 349 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: one of the best special teams players in the NFL 350 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 3: and a guy that teams have to actually really gain 351 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: plan for in that sense. And because of that, he 352 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: continued to developed at linebacker, kept getting more opportunities at linebacker, 353 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 3: and that's something that is always overlooked in preseason, but 354 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 3: you know, for us as fans and football fans, we 355 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: noticed it when it goes wrong, right, And that's that's 356 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 3: the biggest thing, right is it's got to be clean 357 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 3: football on that side of the ball for special teams guys. 358 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: And if they can show that, that shows that consistency 359 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: and that dependability, that responsibility of those positions. That's something 360 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: that guys like Joe Shane and everyone else will be 361 00:17:59,320 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 3: so excited for. 362 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: So we could talk about abdual Carter and we can 363 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: talk about kvon Thibodeau. Oh you can talk about Brian Burns, 364 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: who practices and takes every rep with the intensity of 365 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: a Super Bowl play, But it's really what Joe Shane 366 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: and the team have done, whether it's drafting Darius Alexander, 367 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: bringing in some veteran defensive line help because last year, 368 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: you know, when Dexter went out, you can run on 369 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: the Giants and the Giants were not great at stopping 370 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: the run, and the Abdual Carter Thibodeau, Burns packages exotics 371 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: are never going to get used. If a team gets 372 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: eight yards on first down on a run, that's right, 373 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: and it's second and two. So what do you think 374 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: about what they've done to sort of shake this out 375 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: and improve this And then we're going to find out 376 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: in game action in the preseason what it really looks like. 377 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, ultimately it's about size and speed, right, and you've 378 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 3: got to stop the run, but also to just make 379 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 3: it sure that you can get at the passer in 380 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: obvious passing situations. And you're right, I think Alexander's presence, 381 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 3: the size that he has right to be able to 382 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 3: clog up the middle of the defense offensive line is 383 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 3: so important. Now it's a lot to ask of a 384 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 3: young rookie to come out here and be that guy 385 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: right from the start. But if you can alleviate some 386 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 3: of that pressure on Dexter from being out there probably 387 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,199 Speaker 3: more plays than he should be and leaving him for 388 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 3: the plays that really are the game changing ones and 389 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 3: the obvious passing situations, that that's going to be extremely key. 390 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 3: The team that we don't really like a little bit 391 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 3: further south right that where is Green. That was their ability. 392 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: They had a almost ten deep type of rotation where 393 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 3: it didn't matter they can keep attacking offenses whether if 394 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 3: it was run or pass. And I've been a part 395 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 3: of teams where we were targeting specifically a certain defensive 396 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: lineman and as soon as he came out of the game, 397 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: we're taking the shot. We're doing this run play. We're 398 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 3: being aggressive here because we knew that would be a 399 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: battle we wouldn't be able to win consistently with some 400 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 3: of those play concepts. So having a guy like Alexander 401 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 3: the other depth with with size and physicality, and then 402 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 3: the freedom too of bo Bowen being able to move 403 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 3: guys around in certain key situations. The veteran leadership now 404 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: added in the back end too. I think they really 405 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: did a good job of kind of buttoning up some 406 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 3: of the loose ends that they had from a year ago. 407 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: Just to wrap it up, you and I both like 408 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: the Javon Holland paulse and the Deebo acquisitions because these 409 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: are guys with a lot of playing experience. But they're 410 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: not old guys, right. They're both going into year five 411 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: and they're gonna You know, the Giants had a pretty 412 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: young secondary last year, but you got Drew Phillips, Tay Banks, 413 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: Cordell Flott. But let's talk about the guy that you 414 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: really love. 415 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: Who's my guy? Nub Nuben Nuben? We got to start that, 416 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 3: like Newman from some Neuben? 417 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: But what is it about him that really caught your 418 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: eye last year and why you think he's gonna make 419 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: an even bigger jump this year. 420 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 3: I just feel like he has a knack for always 421 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 3: being around the football, and that's something where we could 422 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 3: talk about it. We can go through all the drills. 423 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: I could teach you everything that we know about how 424 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 3: to do this, Bobby, but you're just you're not gonna 425 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 3: be able to get it done. I'm sorry to let 426 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 3: you know that, right, But Newman has that ability, right 427 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 3: and I think overall, that's something that the defense with 428 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 3: the additions on the defensive line with him as well 429 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: holland now Paulson the debot, you're gonna just see, I think, 430 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 3: more aggressive hats flying to the football right for this 431 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 3: New York Giants defense. And that's something that you know 432 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: we would see at Spurts maybe at times. But you know, 433 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 3: for Neuben just now another year in the league away 434 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: from the draft process, right, That's something that Joe, Joe, 435 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 3: Shane and us talked about yesterday, right, just the process 436 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 3: of going through the draft and preparing for a forty 437 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: and all that. It's not football shape. And now guys 438 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: like Banks and Nuban and Trey Hawkins, right, and Neighbors 439 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: and neighbors right, they've had an extra year to actually 440 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 3: get into legitimate football shape. And I think that's hold exactly. 441 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 3: We're not doing three. Come, we're not doing five ten, five, 442 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 3: stay as low as you can and all that bs right, 443 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: It's no, It's about being a dynamic football player and 444 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: exposive football player. And I think that's why all those 445 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 3: guys that we mentioned look that much sharper uh and 446 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 3: look like veterans on the field. This year. 447 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: Matt, we appreciate your thoughts. Uh bake here on the 448 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: Huddle and UH. If you're new to the Huddle podcast, 449 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: make sure you subscribe to it. Huddle Podcast is brought 450 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New 451 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: York Giants. From game day celebrations to your every financial need, 452 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: Big Blue Fans can get the most out of every 453 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: moment with Citizens. Learn more at citizensbank dot com slash Giants. 454 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: So for Matt Simms, Bob Popa from the Hackensack, Britian 455 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: Health podcast studio keep getting better.