WEBVTT - Dating Over 40 w/ Damona Hoffman 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.920 Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a reduction of shondaland 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:16.520 audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. We can get 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.600 really off track thinking about all of the what if 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.720 should have beens that person that fetishized us, or that 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.360 discussed or whatever. But don't give the energy to those people. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:37.320 You're feeling exhausted because you're giving an energy. Speak he though, everyone, 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.520 and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. Now you will 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.360 find on this podcast that I am a huge fan 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.480 of Renee Brown and her work. Renee Brown is a researcher. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.959 She studies shame, vulnerability, courage. I reference her literally all 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.600 the time. And one of the things her research shows 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:58.480 is that human beings are hardwired for story and in 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:02.760 the absence of data, Uh, we make up stories, now, girl. 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.000 Nowhere have I made up stories in the absence of 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.720 data more than when it comes to men, dating and 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:14.000 relationships and any of the sort of demographic things about ourselves. 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:19.120 We can't control, things like race, gender, identity, socio economic status, 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.560 et cetera. Now, I plan to have a series of 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.000 conversations about dating and all of these things, but today 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:29.319 I want to focus on age, specifically dating over forty. 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.640 I'm forty eight years old and single now for over 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.200 a year and a half, and this is the first 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.640 time in my life I am dating as someone openly 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:42.720 over forty, meaning I no longer lie, deflect, pivot, obstut, kate, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:47.440 do full on matrix moves honey to avoid talking about 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:53.040 my age. So today my guest to certified dating coach 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.600 and media personality Demona Hoffman. She is the host of 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.720 the podcast Dates and Mates with Demona Hoffman, a frequent 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.880 contry a video to The l A Times, The Washington Post, NPR, 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.280 and more. Most recently, Demona can be seen doling out 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.160 love advice on the Drew Barrymore Show. I have a 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:15.000 lot to talk about, Demona. Demona, welcome to the podcast. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.000 How are you doing today? I'm living my best life? 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.800 Thank you? How are you? I'm awesome and I'm so 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:26.919 excited to have this conversation with you. Can you first 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.880 of all tell us how one becomes a dating expert? 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:35.200 What how does that happen? It usually happens by becoming 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.239 a dating disaster first and then figuring out the way 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:43.040 to do it correctly. So I was way back in 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.120 olden times when there weren't even dating apps. There were 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:53.480 dating sites. I was dating, frustrated, somewhat unsuccessful, very cynical 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.600 about love la Verne, and I ended up finding a 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.760 strategy that work because I was actually working as a 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.040 casting director at the time in in TV, and I 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.920 was teaching classes for actors in marketing and having headshots 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.000 that would stand out to someone like me. So you 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.839 could probably tell there's a similarity between what I would 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.240 tell actors about getting noticed by the right kind of 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.680 people and what I needed to do to get noticed 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.040 by the right kind of guys online. So I ended 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.480 up using those strategies to meet my husband, and then 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.480 so many people came to me, just friends and family, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.160 for help, saying, well, I tried online dating, it didn't work, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:32.520 and I say, let me see your profile, and I 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.640 do the same thing, and I got so many calls. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.480 I'm getting married, I'm having a baby. I thought, Wow, 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.160 maybe this is something that people really need. So I 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:45.120 became certified as a dating coach and now help people 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.680 all the way from pre date to pre marriage. That's amazing. 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.480 So a dating app is like marketing yourself, and it 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.880 really is right, it really is, And I think a 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.560 lot about Oh my god, my whole process that's going 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.640 into casting, and there's definitely a relationship. For me, I 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.960 can relate to that because I feel like dating and 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.480 auditioning are very similar. Yes, auditions your first date, right, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.640 and and for me, I know for sure that when 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.360 I go on a first date, I can't be self conscious. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.640 I eat thinking about how I look. I remember I 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.320 was going on a date in New York, and because 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.200 I've been stood up so many times, I would make 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.200 sure that the first date was a coffee date or 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.800 drink within a block and a half of where I lived, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.640 and I would not leave my house or my apartment 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.600 until he was already there. And so I remember, like 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.599 he's texted me, He's oh, I'm here, where are you? 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.280 Was like, oh, I'm a block away, And I was 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.640 a block away. I was home. So and as I 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.039 was leaving this one time, I realized that how I 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.120 was feeling really self conscious, and I was like, Okay, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:45.880 I need to let this go. In the very same 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.760 way with my feeling self conscious when I go into 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.240 an audition. If I'm thinking about how I look, I'm 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.599 not in the character. I'm not in the authenticity of 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.480 where I need to be for the circumstances of the scene, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.440 and so too for dating. Even though I'm gonna look 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:00.839 my best, I have to be in my authenticity, which 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.560 is not about how I look. Yes, and I'm all 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.840 about authenticity. My tagline is love as you are, and 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.800 that's basically my philosophy. After doing this now for almost 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.360 sixteen years, I've been helping people with dating profiles, and 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.159 I've seen that the more you bring your whole self 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.359 to the table, not like all your baggage, let me 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.720 throw all my baggage on the table and see if 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.080 he runs away. But the more you really bring your 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.960 authentic self, like you were saying, into the room, the 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.240 more that you will be able to make a real connection. 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:37.320 And I heard your last boyfriend that you met on Tinder, 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.719 you didn't even wear makeup to the day, right, did not? 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.320 So back then I found like I used to spend 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.040 a lot of time getting ready for dates, and then 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.640 I would meet him and then there wouldn't be a connection. 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.240 And I spent all this time and I just felt 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.520 like annoyed, and so I was like, okay. Speically, when 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:55.200 I became a little more known, I was like, he 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.080 knows what I look like with makeup and kind of glad. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.840 So let me just not about not putting pressure on it, 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.360 and I show up as myself because eventually, if we're date, 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.599 he's going to see me without makeup anyway, so he 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.719 needs to be okay without everything, you know. And also 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.440 you'll enjoy the process more if there's all this pretense 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.320 of I have to do so much to get ready 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.160 for the date, and I have to be thinking so 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.320 much about what I'm saying and how I'm saying it 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.159 on the date. You can't ever be free. You can't 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.720 ever let go and just be yourself, now can. I 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.559 really wanted to talk to you today, specifically about dating 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:32.040 over forty. I am forty years old now and I've 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.200 been single for over a year and a half, and 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.080 this is the first time in my life that I 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.919 am dating as an openly over forty woman, meaning for 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.680 years I lied about my age, and two years ago 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.359 I started owning my age and I was still in 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:49.000 relationship at the time, and so now I'm single and 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.400 I'm back on the apps. I do not put my 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.159 real age in my profile though, because I think the 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.039 algorithms are ages or very few minute feel like and 0:06:58.080 --> 0:06:59.920 this could be a story I've told myself. I feel 0:06:59.920 --> 0:07:01.839 like very few men are searching for forty year old 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:06.440 black trans women. That's my thought. I could be wrong. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.600 Tell me I'm wrong if you have the data or 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.760 back it up, you know. But once I start talking 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:12.360 to them, I tell them my real age. I'm very 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.720 happy and proud to be forty eight. But like, what 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.960 are your thoughts on? There's so much, like I just said, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.679 so much. They're right about lying about your age algorithms. Girl. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:25.520 First of all, when I heard you want to talk 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.000 about dating over forty, I was like, well, Laver, it's 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.120 over forty. It just goes to show that age is 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:35.520 just a number, right, It's really more about the mindset 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.440 and the energy level, the things you like doing, and 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.080 having somebody who has common goals for the future. Yes, 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:44.040 can I pause you there? Though, I'm sorry. This is 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.160 where I want to challenge you. I've listened to your podcast, 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.840 I've read you fairly extensively, and you talk a lot 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.600 about mindset and how we frame things, and I'm all 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.280 about that. I'm all about manifesting the lives that we want. 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:56.800 But I feel like in the realm of dating and 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:58.840 I it was a part of me that's very hopeful 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.440 and optimistic and another part of me that is super 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.400 cynical because we are dealing with at least I'm dealing 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.720 with men. I'm dealing with straight identified men of all 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.960 age groups, and I feel like so much of everything 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:15.560 is thrown out the window when it comes to that. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.440 What are your thoughts on that cynical chick out there 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.040 who's probably like me, who's like, well, yeah, I can 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.160 manifest this and that can have the right mindset, but 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.440 men are still gonna be men. It's true. It's true, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.640 men are going to be men. But I'll I can 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.680 back this up with receipts and with research. So it's 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.199 not so much the algorithms as the way people search 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:40.800 it is skewed. Two disadvantage women over forty. I'm just 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.120 gonna put that all out there. But I say that 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.880 because I have been able to help women over forty, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:49.720 over fifty, over sixty, who all come to me and say, well, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.640 men always want someone younger. I have if women in 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.800 their thirties coming to me saying men always want someone younger. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.320 So if men are always true, but if they're always 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.240 looking for someone younger, how do I get people to 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.320 these relationships, and that's by taking different action. And this 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.439 is the key I teach people how to beat the algorithm, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:13.240 because if you are more proactive, if you are broader 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.559 in your search, and like a lot of the swipe apps, 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.679 you cannot do that much to change the algorithm. Like 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.200 on an Okay, keep it or a match, you can 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.959 send an outgoing message and this is something that most 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.680 women do not do. And from the beginning sixteen years 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.760 ago when I started coaching on online dating, I've always 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:35.920 had women be pro active. When Bumble came along, I 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.760 was like, I got this. I've been I've been teaching 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.520 people this for so long because it really does shift 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.200 the algorithm, and it does improve your chances because, like 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.600 you said, they might not be searching for you, but 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.280 if you come up in their feed and they're like, oh, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.600 she's sexy, they're going to swipe right. And research shows 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.640 that if a man finds you attractive, he will ignore 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.480 every anything else. He'll ignore the age, will ignore all 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.199 the baggage, everything else, and then he'll just swipe right. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:08.480 And that's what you want. You want to get into 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.520 conversation so that you can move things forward. Off of 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.600 the app and into the real world. That's the purpose 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.319 of dating apps. I think people forget that the dating 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.319 app as a tool, and they want to make all 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.480 that connection online and they want to do all this 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.880 vetting and identifying if somebody is right before they put 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.040 any energy in before they show up on the date. 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.960 But it's just the tool, and you can't really tell 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.200 if you have chemistry or if your appropriate match for 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.719 someone until you actually meet. Would you agree with that absolutely? 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.600 I absolutely agree with that pre pandemic. When I would 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.200 single before and living in New York, I would make 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.960 sure within matching with someone if we had not met 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.760 for coffee within a week, I would like unmatched. Because 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.800 I've been online dating for twenty years. My first boyfriend 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:53.480 in two thousand, twenty years ago, I met on the 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.160 dating app. It was a Transpacific dating app twenty years ago. 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.960 So what I learned through like being on Yahoo chat 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.199 rooms a well chat rooms girl I've done at all, 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.080 is that you can literally chat with a guy for years. 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:07.640 There's a guy named John I don't know if this 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.960 is real name, who I have literally been chatting with 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.720 since probably two thousand five, two thousand six, right for years, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.960 we just like lost contact. We've never met in person, 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:19.920 and it just never happened. I was like, when are 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.600 we going to meet? And I just became clear to 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:26.160 me that he was into talking and having a pinpal 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.800 communication thing, but he was not interested in meeting in person. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.920 And so that showed me that there are a lot 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.599 of guys like that online the trans thing. Definitely, a 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:35.640 lot of guys have fantasies about that, but then are 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.760 are really nervous about meeting in person. So then I 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.880 was like, if we're not meeting within a week, this 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.160 is pre pandemic. I would unmatch because I feel I 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.680 was like, he's not really serious post pandemic. It's it's 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.640 all all about video chatting for me, and this video 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.840 chatting has screened out a lot of them. Can I 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.360 tell you I feel a vibe. I feel a vibe 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.960 on the video because sometimes there are pictures there. I 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.000 find them attractive in their pictures, but once the image 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.400 just moving and good or bad lighting, it's like not 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.520 there for me and the personality. Yeah, I'm a big 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.120 fan of the video chat It's funny because I did 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.280 an episode of the Dates and Maids podcast in March, 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.120 like before everything hit first week in March, and I 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.480 was like, this is the future of dating. Get on 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.599 the video chat train, this is where it's going. And 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.120 and I actually came to the same conclusion that you 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.319 did about the one week time frame during the pandemic. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.200 I've said one no more than one week of chatting 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:36.920 before you move to the next step. And I realized 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.520 I had to really be very clear and codify that 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.160 for my clients and listeners because I always said, move 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.760 offline as quickly as possible. But what is as quickly 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.920 as possible means? So I'm like, okay, one week. In 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.000 one week, you should know if someone has a true 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:51.720 interest in you or not. And the problem is that 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.040 a lot of us try to talk ourselves into situations. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.160 And so many of my clients will say, oh, yeah, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:00.760 but we really have a connection, or we have a 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.000 really good banter over text. But what you're doing then 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.319 is you're developing a false sense of intimacy. You're developing 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.199 false communication. And so much of communication is not the 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.439 content of the words, and it's definitely not what you 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.600 can take time crafting and right and equippe your response 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.760 or gift or an emoji. It's really in that real 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.560 time communication that I'm trying to get people towards. And 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.960 as you probably saw in the video chat, what people 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.559 perceive from you is your body language, your vocal intonation. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.280 And then there's that X factor, which I look at 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:39.360 really as intuition in a way. There's that other layer 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.160 that is hard to quantify, but it's absolutely there. When 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.319 you just say I don't know why I just don't 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.520 feel that connection with that person, I think that's your 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.520 gut speaking, or I don't know why I do feel 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.120 the connection when it's the chemistry that is so sort 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.439 of inexplicable, but it's just there, and it's really rare. 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.120 What I would always say about this for years is 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.440 that it's not real. It's a fantasy. Until we're space 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.640 to face, right, we're projecting, and I really try not 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.000 to do this. I really trying to project a fantasy 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.559 or romantic fantasy onto any man. I've learned the hard 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.960 way from having done that in the past. So what 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.000 are the top three challenges that you find people faith 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.840 and dating over forty Oh boy, that's a big question. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.680 I have my ideas. I have my ideas, but what 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:31.760 do you think. Well, one thing that I run into 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:36.600 a lot, particularly with women over forty, is that your 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.120 life is pretty much formed by the time you're forty. 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.360 You have your friendship circle, you have your career, maybe 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.520 you have kids, you have a life that is already 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.400 very full. And one of the biggest challenges that I 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.600 have when your life is already set like that is 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.920 just creating the space for a mate to come in, 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.640 Because if he comes in and you barely have time 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.120 to have a first date with him, you cancel on him, 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.440 You're always rescheduling him, you have one night available for 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.480 a date, or he feels like you're putting your career 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.480 first and there's no space for him. He needs to 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.800 feel like he has a function. And I'm I'm not 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:22.280 big on traditional gender dynamics. I don't really buy into 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.040 this idea of like, well, a man has to come 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.920 and save you or have have that kind of function. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.920 But it's more just like, is there a place for 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.520 him in your life? Can he fit into this world? 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.160 Or are you asking him to change everything about the 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.840 life he's built to be able to fit into the 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.040 life that you have. Wow, that's so deep. I like, 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.200 I laughed earlier because I'm sort of like I might 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.160 that girl because I'm really busy. Yeah, we do that. 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.200 Number two, I would say, is not having clarity on 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.200 your goals for the future and then not being aligned 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.360 in that and being in a different place in your life. 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.360 And then the third thing is just limiting beliefs. This 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.640 belief that I can't meet someone because I'm over forty 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.680 the dating pool is too small, or all men my 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.320 age want to date someone younger, or I'm this race 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.040 and I can I can't meet someone because I'm black, 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.000 or I can't meet someone because I am a few 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.640 pounds overweight, or whatever it is. We really internalize these 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:29.640 limiting beliefs, and it blocks us from being able to 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.200 experience the love of the one that is so huge. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.320 How do we change the stories that we tell ourselves 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.680 about ourselves and our circumstances that It's something I'm constantly 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.800 struggling with. And I spent about eight months in therapy 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.240 talking to my therapist and working through some of the 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.920 stories I told myself before I went public with my age, 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.440 and I told myself that I wasn't datable, I wasn't hirable, 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.520 and I wasn't affable over a certain age, and the 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.520 reality at the time is that I was employed, I 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.880 was in a relationship with all this stories I told 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.679 myself around dating over forty we're not true. None of 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.240 them were true. We do that and we create these 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.159 paths and patterns in our mind. These are neural pathways 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:17.160 confirm what that belief is that you're telling yourself, even though, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.160 like you just said, the facts did not support that 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.680 belief at all. But the more that you told yourself 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:25.720 that was true, the more that your brain began to 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.080 believe it. So what I have people do is to 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:34.159 literally rewrite that. I call them broken beliefs, break that 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.480 belief and rewrite it. So it starts with even just 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.280 writing down, what is that incorrect belief that you've been 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.880 repeating again and again? How often do I repeat that 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:48.280 to myself? And then right, what is the inverse of that? 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.399 Or what is the phrase that you would like to 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.600 be true or that you have even fifty one percent 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.639 belief that might be actually true in the world. And 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.679 that's that belief is something that I I try to 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:02.560 infuse in people that it doesn't you don't have to 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.159 be on board with with whatever I'm saying, but if 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.080 you could just believe it's more probable than not to 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.479 be true. Then you can you can take yourself the 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.639 rest of the way with work. And then when you 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.119 are in that situation and you have that limiting belief, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.240 come up. I have a transition word that I'll have 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:25.159 my clients like figure out what their transition. For me. 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.760 It's stop. If I have a limiting belief, I'm repeating 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.680 I just in my head, I go stop, stop, and 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.440 then it trains me to reframe it with a more 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.159 positive phrase and belief system. That then I begin to 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.320 carve and root out that different belief system in my mind. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:46.879 That you man, I can always give what we want, 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.000 but we get what we believe, and so we have 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.960 to get really clear. I love what you just said 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.919 because we have to get really clear about what we 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:58.639 believe because we are manifesting right now, right this is 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.520 a good time to take a little break. We'll be 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:02.760 right back though, after a little love is thrown to 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:15.280 our responsors. Okay, that's taken care of. Let's get back 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:20.520 to our chat. So I met my ex when I 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.440 was forty five years old, and I felt madly, deeply, 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.480 truly in love with him. It was incredible. I was 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.320 like head over heels. We dated for two years and 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.240 then it didn't work out. It didn't work out, and 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.159 it was devastating. And I know that there are a 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.560 lot of women out there, people out there, you know, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.119 of all gender identities, particularly in our forties, who probably 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.640 have had that situation. We've been in love, maybe we've 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.679 experienced a divorce or some kind of breakup and we 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.920 thought we had it. But what does one do, because 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:52.800 this is real, what does one do when like one 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.040 has been you know, hopeful about love and it did 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.080 work out. Well. I look at every single relationship that 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.639 you have teaching you something as giving you something. I 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:07.120 never look at it as wasted time. And really, when 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.600 people come to me and it's really raw, like they 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.679 haven't really processed it like you have, we can't do 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.960 the kind of work that I do in that space. 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.199 That's when I say, talk to a therapist, do some 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.280 self care, and then come back to me when you're 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.639 ready to actually date, because this is hardcore dating strategy. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.639 This is when you're like, Okay, I'm ready, I've processed this. 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.280 But I think everything that you learn from that you'll 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.720 take into the next relationship. And I also like when 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.000 people tell me oh, I tried online dating it didn't work, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.520 or I had a relationship and it didn't work. I said, 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.200 what it did work. It did work for that time. 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.119 Tender worked for you for a time, and that relationship, 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:55.600 even though you had hoped that it would continue long term, 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.720 it was the right relationship for you for that time 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.920 and for that season. Absolutely, And that's what I tried 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.119 to first to do, is to give honor to that 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.880 relationship and the function that it's served in the place 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.199 that I served in your life at that time. I 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:11.920 definitely feel that, and I'm happy that it's over, and 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.000 being honest, i feel like I'm in a different place 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:17.840 and I'm wishing him all the best, of course, just 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.040 to get out there again, though. Can you have been 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.000 on the apps, You've been in a monogamous relationship, and 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:23.800 all of a sudden you're back out there and men 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.240 are doing the same thing they were doing on the 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:31.199 ass before, all of the men wanting to send pictures 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.800 of their privates and all sort of being overly sexualized 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:39.040 and all the things that happened to people online, specifically 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.040 I think women. But just the weariness of it all. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.120 What do you think about that? Because I'm just like 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.199 I just talked to my girlfriends all the time, and 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.240 we're constantly talking about like how weary we are. And 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:54.040 there's a certain cynicism because we see the same things 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.639 over and over again with men. And I think too, 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.040 I always want to be as accountable as possible. If 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:00.880 I'm seeing the same thing over and over game, what's 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.399 my part in it? Am I inviting that same energy? 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.360 Am I sending it out? That energy out and that's 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.600 what I'm getting back? And so for me, it's always 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.680 a question of, like my personal responsibility, and then what's 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:17.320 the stemming What is just agism and sexism and misogyny 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.760 sort of playing itself out and how men date And 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.760 none of this is easy. That's the other thing, Like, 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.280 this is what we're here to do. This is our work, really, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:32.200 And what you said, I know resonates. I'm sure we'll 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:36.080 resonate with a lot of your listeners because when when 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.919 you are dating in your forties, you have past experiences, 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.359 you have stuff. I said baggage before, but it's not 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:46.400 necessarily baggage. I think it's just your story. And there's 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.520 the story that you're living, and then there's the story 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.080 you're telling. Yourself about what that story means. Right, there's 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.159 how you're interpreting the story. And so I'm curious to 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:57.720 ask you, Laverne. We're gonna turn this into a little 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.520 bit of a coaching sessh, real quick, what do you 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:04.639 feel like you learned from that relationship that you would 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.320 take into the next relationship now having a year and 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:12.359 a half to reflect on it? Oh so much. I 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:17.240 think the biggest thing for me is that true love 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:22.399 is possible, like a really and truly reciprocal loving relationship 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:26.080 where we're both on the same page, where he is 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:29.040 just is in love with me as I am with him, 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.399 and that I can show every aspect of who I 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.240 am to a partner and still be loved. That is 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.879 a beautiful thing that I've taken away from that relationship. 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:42.280 That's amazing. That's really valuable experience. And as far as 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.679 this idea of I have to go back out and 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.600 do it again and it's the same old stuff, and 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:53.480 it is, but now you have perspective and knowledge that 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:57.080 maybe you didn't have three years ago before you begin 0:23:57.160 --> 0:24:01.000 this process, and so now you're making that into the 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:05.679 next relationship. Now you're filtering dates based on that and 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:09.680 to me that possibility is really exciting. And I know that, 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:11.840 like you said, it is a bit of a numbers game, 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.840 but I look at it more as it's a process. 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.440 I'm always like, what's your plan to meet your man? Right? 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.600 It's a plan that you're following, and that if you 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:24.280 trust the process and you trust the plan that you've 0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.480 made for yourself, that the right relationship will come in 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.919 at the right time. Can I also say one of 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.520 the things I learned from my last relationship is how 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.760 in my last two relationships is the question of children 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.439 because I don't want to have kids. I've always been 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:41.480 very clear that I don't want to have children. Obviously, 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:43.760 people can adopt their surrogus, there is all sorts of 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:45.720 ways to have children now, but I don't want to 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.880 be a parent. But my last relationship, he was thinking 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:50.919 about kids and we met he was twenty eight and 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.640 I was forty five, and he turned thirty and was like, 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.320 I really want to have kids, and like, so I 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.080 get that, I really understand it, but I feel like 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.960 I want to have a little bit more clarity before 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.520 I get serious with a man around the question of children. 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:08.640 I just don't want to deal with that again, that's 0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.920 another good learning and it's interesting. I'm seeing a little 0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:14.639 bit of shift, i would say, in the last five 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:17.800 years or so with a lot of my clients that 0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:21.840 are approaching forty or over forty around kids. Some of 0:25:21.880 --> 0:25:24.560 them feel a lot of pressure like they are in 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.639 this rush now all of a sudden, I have to 0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:28.600 have kids, and now I have to just I'll just 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:32.880 pick anybody. And for those I'm like, this is why 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:35.679 we have I v F, we have medical interventions. There 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:37.520 are solutions for you to You don't have to just 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:42.440 partner with anybody just because you want kids, Like that's 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:45.240 this is the most important decision I think you'll ever 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:48.520 make the person you're going to spend theoretically the rest 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.560 of your life with. So it's not a decision to 0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:54.640 be taken lightly. And then I'm also seeing a lot 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.119 of women now who are choosing not to have kids 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:03.000 and get actually a lot of pushback from men that 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:06.560 either think they're trying to trap them, like oh, you 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.560 must really want kids, because all women in their thirties 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:14.199 and forties want kids. And it's almost like society is 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:17.920 just catching up to where we are in terms of 0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:22.200 our goals and our identity as women, and so there's 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.800 gonna be a period I think of dissonance. It's this 0:26:24.920 --> 0:26:32.040 big pot that we're stirring of people having different desires 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:38.920 from the traditional relationship and everyone who grew up with 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.960 their classical well, you get married and then you have 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:46.640 kids having to reframe their thoughts on this and it's 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:50.359 a tricky time. So that brings me to another thought 0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:53.520 um that I have that it's frustrating. I think for 0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:55.960 a lot of women over forty who might make more 0:26:56.000 --> 0:27:00.760 money than their potential partners, that rolls are different. I 0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:03.119 what I say to my girlfriends a lot that women 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.720 over the past thirty forty years have really been thinking 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:11.960 differently about our role in the world, and we're empowered 0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:15.520 in ways that we've never been before, which is absolutely beautiful. 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.560 We understand our power. We're like taking care of ourselves, 0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:22.439 we make our own money. And I don't see a 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:26.320 mass movement of men who are actually along for the 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:29.440 ride with us. And maybe I'm looking in the wrong 0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:33.000 places or those men just get taken very quickly, but 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.600 I feel I feel like women are in this incredible 0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:40.960 place where we are redefining what roles are for ourselves 0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:43.480 and what the rules are for ourselves. And I know 0:27:43.560 --> 0:27:46.760 this conversation is very hetero sexist. I'm a woman who 0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:48.840 dates men, so I'm just that's when when I'm talking 0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:53.200 about this. So what are your thoughts on men right 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:57.119 now and where they are? I do believe that it 0:27:57.240 --> 0:27:59.600 is emasculating still for a lot of men when a 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:02.760 woman may more money than them. Well, you you just 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.959 set a mouthful there too. And usually I really like 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:09.600 to speak from a place of research that I've seen 0:28:10.240 --> 0:28:17.399 or clients trends or experiences specifically, and I really I 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.639 don't have the research to back up what I'm about 0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:22.280 to say, so I'm just gonna put that out there. 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:27.000 I have personally been seeing a shift towards men being 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:32.879 open to redefining roles. But I'll say it's also about 0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:35.560 the way that you're dating and like the filtering. So 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:39.160 in my program I talk about five steps. There's mindset 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:44.840 sourcing where you're finding, it's screening and then presentation and 0:28:45.000 --> 0:28:48.240 follow through. And I find a lot of people get 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:51.880 caught up in the mindset and the screening parts. Mindset 0:28:51.960 --> 0:28:53.840 is like what am I looking for? What am I 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:55.680 bringing to the table, and what do I want what 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:58.240 are my goals for the future, what are my values 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:02.880 right and and people are just still quite confused on that. 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:05.440 Sometimes people will tell me I'll know it when I 0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:07.440 see it, and I'm like, well, then you're never going 0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:09.680 to see it, because if you're waiting for it to 0:29:09.760 --> 0:29:13.520 be presented to you without clarity of what you're looking for, 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.480 it's going to just blend into the background. But then 0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:21.440 as we are screening through dates, I like to have 0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:26.920 a really clear criteria that you are matching against. And 0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:31.040 if someone doesn't meet like your core three goals or values, 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:34.320 that person is not a match, regardless if they're you know, 0:29:34.480 --> 0:29:37.440 really cute, they're really good in bed, if they want 0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:39.480 kids and you don't want kids, it's not a match. 0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:43.400 Let's not go down that road. And so like for me, 0:29:43.600 --> 0:29:48.160 when I was single, I had clarity that I was 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.800 looking for a man who was going to be a 0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:53.720 caretaker to my children, and I was looking for a 0:29:53.840 --> 0:29:57.840 fifty fifty partnership. I was not looking for any traditional 0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.720 gender dynamics that was not for me because I knew 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:03.840 I'm going to be making money, I'm going to have 0:30:03.880 --> 0:30:06.520 my career, I might want to have kids. I assume 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:08.440 I'll have kids, but if I do, I'm not going 0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:10.680 to be the only one taking care of them. And 0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:15.640 so when I met my husband, he was broke, he 0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.320 was an aspiring writer, he was trying to make it, 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:23.840 but he was the most intelligent man that I had 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.360 ever met, and he was really caring and he really 0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:29.720 wanted to be an active partner and have a family 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:33.520 that he could also participate in taking care of. And 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:36.880 here we sit in the middle of a pandemic and 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:39.560 I am here recording with you, and my husband is 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:41.280 inside taking care of the kids. This has been our 0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:43.440 dynamic for the last ten years. And I think back 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:47.320 and I'm like, so grateful that I had that foresight 0:30:48.040 --> 0:30:51.920 to plan for the partner that I wanted in my life. 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:55.040 I think it's really just more about creating a balance 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:57.840 and the dynamic that you want when you build out 0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:00.440 your life. And this is why we visualize. I'll have 0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.440 you placed yourself a year in the future in the 0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:05.720 arms of that person that you're with, and go through 0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:07.400 a day in the life of what it would it 0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:09.560 be like to be with that person. And when you 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.320 get that kind of clarity before you go onto the 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:15.720 dating apps, because that will challenge every belief and every 0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:18.480 goal that you have. But when you have that clarity 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:22.800 right and you move forward from that place of conviction 0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:26.200 and clarity, you will meet the person that is best 0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:28.600 suited for you and that life that you want to build. 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:32.560 I love that. That was beautiful, Thank you so much. 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:36.200 I think that clarity about what your core values are, 0:31:36.680 --> 0:31:40.480 absolutely getting what those three values are and not wavering 0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:42.640 on those. What are the things we need to let 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:44.680 go of? Right? Because for me, I let go of 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:48.680 height in my last relationship. I let go of height, 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:50.720 and then if he should make more money than me, 0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:52.800 I'd let go of that a long time ago, especially 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:54.600 for women over for it. What are the things we 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:58.160 should be letting go of to allow ourselves to open 0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:03.600 up our dating pool? You got the big two height age. 0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.200 I also, I've been writing a lot about race. I 0:32:08.240 --> 0:32:14.200 didn't realize how much, how so many people are really 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:18.440 letting race be a factor when they don't live their 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:21.520 lives in that way. Like people would say, oh, black 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:25.120 lives matter, I'm so woke, right, and then but then 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:29.360 they would come to me and check every box on 0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:34.200 the dating profile. Interested in white Asian I'm speaking of 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.120 Caucasian people. But I also see this from the black 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:39.400 community as well. They check every box but black or 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:42.920 I work with black clients who are like, must must 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:45.520 be a black man, it just has to be. And 0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.760 then I start to unpack that with the five wise 0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:51.840 if you ever heard of this business technique where you 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.440 start with one why, and then that why leads you 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:57.560 to the next why, and the next why and the 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.200 next why. And as I asked these wise of people, 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.520 why does he have to be black? Or why can't 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:07.760 he be black? And we unpack it, we realize that 0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:11.000 biases at the core. But I think there's the thing 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:14.120 of like our bias, right, like our implicit biases that 0:33:14.160 --> 0:33:17.640 we have, and then there's the thing of attraction. What 0:33:17.760 --> 0:33:19.680 I do know for sure too is I can't make 0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:22.240 myself be attracted to someone that I'm not. And one 0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:24.600 of the worst things I can do for myself as 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:27.240 a data is to date someone that I'm not attracted to, 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.560 because then the physical intimacy, it becomes a chore and 0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:35.600 it's just awful. So I think getting a clarity around 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:38.080 what is biased that we might have, right that our 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:41.960 implicit bias or internalized racism if we will, or internalized agism, 0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:44.560 and then what is just I'm attracted to this person. Yeah, 0:33:44.640 --> 0:33:47.480 it's just seeing who might come in when you open 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:50.640 up the door to a possibility that you had completely 0:33:51.040 --> 0:33:54.040 blocked out. I do agree with you. Race is different 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:58.000 than age, and this is why I was saying earlier 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:01.280 that it's about being with somebody who wants the same 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:04.200 things that you do for the future. So I look 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:08.960 at four factors of long term compatibility. There is mutual respect, 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:13.359 of course, communication and conflict resolution. So there's communication when 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:15.560 the times are good, but then a conflict resolution when 0:34:15.600 --> 0:34:17.120 you run into the bumps in the road and you 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.560 certainly will. And then the two that I feel our 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.880 most important predictors of long term compatibility are common goals 0:34:24.920 --> 0:34:28.279 for the future and shared values. And those are sometimes 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:30.360 the things that are hard to put down on paper. 0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:34.239 What are my values? My values are to be inclusive 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:38.200 and to be compassionate and understanding. I have these conversations 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.640 with my husband, who I also consider a feminist, And 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:43.759 there was a picture of him when he was like 0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:47.279 three years old that his mom showed me earlier when 0:34:47.280 --> 0:34:49.800 we were dating, and it says men of quality respect 0:34:49.840 --> 0:34:52.520 women's equality, and I was like, yes, this is the 0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:54.200 guy that I want to be with you from a 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:57.000 young age. It's like we are equal. He does not 0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:00.120 open doors for me. I was because he's like, you 0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:02.200 could open the door. How do you feel about that? 0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:05.960 I'm fine with it. I again, I think that we've 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:09.520 just been sold a bill of goods from rom comms 0:35:09.520 --> 0:35:12.680 and fairy tales, and I just think none of it 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.920 really applies to our our real lives. I think it's 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:18.799 mutual respect. And every time when I look at a 0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:23.600 relationship that has lasted the test of time, they have 0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:27.359 those four things, those four pillars that they're on the 0:35:27.400 --> 0:35:30.000 same page about. That's really what it is. You can 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:32.400 make it through anything if you can get on the 0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:35.960 same page on those things. But that's the thing with 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:39.399 age is the goals for the future. So if you're 0:35:39.480 --> 0:35:43.640 dating someone that is twenty eight, they might not want 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:47.040 the same thing that you do in the future. They 0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.359 might come to the conclusion in two years that they 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:55.720 want kids. And inversely, if you're dating someone who's sixty, 0:35:55.760 --> 0:35:58.400 they might be retired and they might be like, love her, 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:01.000 why you work in so much much? We're supposed to 0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:04.480 go to the Bahamas, you know, that's where the friction 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:07.319 comes in because the lifestyles are not aligned. So I 0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:10.120 don't look specifically at the numbers, but I look at 0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.279 what is the lifestyle that that person is living and 0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:17.360 wants to live, and does that align with what you want? Beautiful? Beautiful. 0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:21.320 It's time for a short break and we come back 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:34.439 more with our guest, and of course what else is true? Oh, 0:36:34.480 --> 0:36:37.440 I'm loving where this conversation is going without further ado. 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:42.799 But I think about that woman out there who may 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:47.359 be fat or might be not attractive by conventional standards, 0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.040 and it's really struggling with love. And so the space 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:55.600 of knowing real love becomes really difficult because we don't 0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.920 fit into a lot of men's idea of what they 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:03.880 think they want. People who don't fit into that idea 0:37:04.040 --> 0:37:06.839 of the perfect mate and is struggling with even like 0:37:07.200 --> 0:37:10.080 wanting to put themselves out there. What would you say 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:14.640 to them around the search for love? Yeah, it's funny 0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.040 that you said that, because as you were talking, I 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.040 was actually remembering my own experience. And I've been up 0:37:20.040 --> 0:37:23.200 and down the scale many times. I joke, I've lost 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:26.400 the same ten pounds twenty times, and so I can 0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:29.200 actually relate because one of the things that was so 0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:33.239 frustrating for me about dating before online dating was I 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:35.799 didn't feel attractive. I go out with my girlfriends and 0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:37.839 I would be the last one to get a phone 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:42.080 number or get asked to dance or whatever. And that 0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:44.520 was really that did a number on me for a 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.440 long time, because I was like, I feel like I 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.120 look all right, but I guess in this dating pool, 0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:52.799 this isn't what these people are looking for. And I 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:55.200 think it was that ability to say, this is not 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:57.880 my pool, this is not my pool of people. And 0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:03.040 some of that is spying into that belief system and 0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:05.360 knowing that you're going to find your people. If you 0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:07.600 keep going, you're going to find your people, and we're 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:11.799 going for quality over quantity. That is another thing that 0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:15.000 a lot of women, especially women over forty, get caught 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.920 up with because they're like, well, in my twenties, I 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:20.680 had all of these guys, but now I'm in my forties, 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:24.680 it feels like nothing's happening. And that's because not all 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:26.359 of those people are going to be for you. Yes, 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:30.280 the dating pool does does change, but we're only looking 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:34.080 for one and I'm speaking to people who are looking 0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:38.560 for monogamy. That's most of my audience. So that said, 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.160 there is a person out there for you, and if 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.759 you're not feeling the love that person, I have this 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:48.080 thank and release strategy like Marie Condo. I I say, Okay, 0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:51.840 that person wasn't for me. I thank them for whatever 0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:54.320 it was that brought them to me, and I released 0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.200 them back into the wild. And then I focus my 0:38:57.239 --> 0:39:01.920 attention on what what do I really want and finding 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:04.920 somebody who is going to align with that, because we 0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:08.520 can get really off track thinking about all of the 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:13.520 what if should have beens that person that fetishized us, 0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:17.360 or that dissed us or whatever. But don't give the 0:39:17.480 --> 0:39:20.480 energy to those people you're feeling exhausted because you're giving 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:24.240 an energy, save it. Conserve the energy for the people 0:39:24.239 --> 0:39:27.359 who are going to be appreciative of all the things. 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:30.720 And I have also found love for women of all 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:34.719 different body types. And I know that men men are 0:39:34.760 --> 0:39:38.680 looking for women of all shapes and sizes, and I 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:42.239 find that women are so much harder on ourselves and 0:39:42.320 --> 0:39:44.600 our bodies. And I say this speaking also from my 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:47.960 own experience. So many times I'm just like, oh, I 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:50.200 think it's so bad, and this I can't wear that, 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:54.040 and my husband is like, I don't even see that. 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:58.160 Someone told me this this phrase many years ago. Don't 0:39:58.800 --> 0:40:03.120 yuck somebody else's yum. It's like the food. If you're 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:05.640 eating food with somebody and then you're like, oh, girls, 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:07.960 I can't believe. Like I hate avocado. I can't believe 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:11.680 you love avocado. It's disgusting. But I say the same 0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:15.760 thing with dating. If I'm like, oh, my body looks terrible, 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:19.560 I can't believe anybody would find as attractive. How is 0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:22.200 he going to get excited looking at my body if 0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:26.359 he thinks that you think your body is undateable or unattractive. 0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:31.680 So it starts always with our relationship to ourselves, with anything, 0:40:31.760 --> 0:40:35.600 particularly love and dating that I need to feel enough 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:41.160 and being okay alone. I found it has been really 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:44.560 crucial to being able to be partnered with someone else 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:47.200 and then need to even date. You said something about 0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:49.840 monogamy and the one. Do you believe in the concept 0:40:49.840 --> 0:40:52.360 of the one and that one soulmate who's going to 0:40:53.080 --> 0:40:55.839 hate complete as? Obviously I don't believe in another human 0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:58.600 being completing me. But what are your thoughts on soulmates 0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:00.640 and the concept of the one? Know? I don't think 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:03.600 there's no one. I think there are a lot of ones. 0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:08.719 And this concept of finding the one, it's funny. I 0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:12.160 just did on Instagram survey on this and sev the 0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:14.719 people said they do believe in the one, They do 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.120 believe in soulmates, and I think it keeps a lot 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:23.000 of people single because you're like the grass is always greener, 0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:25.719 this person is good, but could there be something better? 0:41:26.160 --> 0:41:29.080 Because this person feels like a good match. But are 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:32.200 they my soul mate? Are they the one? And if 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:35.760 you broaden out, you're thinking to any of these people 0:41:35.840 --> 0:41:39.600 could be possible matches, then you're not searching for a 0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:42.399 needle in a haystack. And then I feel that that 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.840 gives you the hope to be able to keep going. 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:50.479 And you said something that I think is really really key, um, 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.040 because if we hear a lot about self love, love yourself, 0:41:53.120 --> 0:41:55.000 and I feel like everybody now is like, wait, what 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:57.759 does that even mean? But you said it it's like 0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:01.759 being alone and being okay. And I had to go 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.840 through this this journey myself as well. I I remember 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:07.920 I was feeling my time and I know a lot 0:42:07.960 --> 0:42:10.680 of your listeners can relate to this. I had every 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:15.279 inch of my schedule blocked, and my coach said, I 0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:18.439 want you to block out time for yourself the same 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:20.520 way that you would give time to another person or 0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:24.120 another job. Block out that time and treat that like 0:42:24.360 --> 0:42:27.719 that is golden. You cannot cancel on yourself. Then when 0:42:27.800 --> 0:42:30.719 the more that I started planning that solo time, the 0:42:30.760 --> 0:42:33.160 more I started to look forward to that solo time, 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:35.200 and then I started to figure out what do I 0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:38.120 enjoy doing apart from someone else, Because if you're going 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:41.359 from relationship to the relationship, you know what you used 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:43.600 to do with them, what they liked to do. But 0:42:43.760 --> 0:42:47.680 do you really know do you really know what makes 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:52.680 you feel fulfilled, what makes you feel calm, what what 0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:56.920 you truly enjoy And a lot of people need to 0:42:56.960 --> 0:42:59.520 go on that journey of self discovery to get to 0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:02.560 that place that you just said that you're at, like 0:43:03.160 --> 0:43:08.800 being comfortable knowing that you're alone and that's okay because 0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:11.640 you have yourself. I think the one thing I want 0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:15.600 to say about self love is that it's about for me. 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.600 It's about how I treat myself and what I say 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.200 to myself about myself. Because I'm so addicted to negative 0:43:22.239 --> 0:43:25.399 self talk. I'm so addicted to the you. I look fat, 0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:27.439 I look ugly, I look all this that I say 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.640 subconsciously and don't even realize I'm saying to myself. And 0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:33.680 that is something that I do imperfectly on a daily basis, 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.560 but it is when I can do it, it is 0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:41.200 really really beautiful work, really beautiful work. So one other 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:43.480 thing I want to ask you before my last question, 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:46.160 and that is the online piece, right, because if you're 0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:48.520 dating at any age, I think I've always told people 0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:50.319 if you want to be in the dating game, you 0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:52.000 have to be on the apps. But I think with 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:55.240 apps there's so many options, Like it's hard to commit 0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:58.640 to one person when there's another person to swipe away. 0:43:58.960 --> 0:44:02.360 And there's the fatigue of it all, right, of constantly 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:05.279 swiping because I match with so many men who never 0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:08.120 even message me even though I mrs First, I've been 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:10.360 doing that for a minute. Is their way to mitigate 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:15.640 that or navigate that? What? What? Girl? Help? Because it's exhausting. Yes, 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:18.799 the fatigue can be overwhelming if you don't have a 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:22.200 process around it, right. So I have my clients actually 0:44:22.239 --> 0:44:24.240 block in the time, like this is how many hours 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:27.920 I'm going to devote to swiping, and I like to 0:44:27.960 --> 0:44:30.319 have my clients on two apps at a time. I 0:44:30.360 --> 0:44:33.120 find that more than two at a time can be 0:44:33.160 --> 0:44:36.439 a little bit overwhelming to manage all of the communication 0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:39.480 coming in, and less than two doesn't give you the 0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:42.200 best chance at success. Thank you for saying that we 0:44:42.200 --> 0:44:44.160 should be on the apps, because this is a daily 0:44:44.200 --> 0:44:46.320 fight that I have with people who have this fantasy 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:48.160 of but that's not the story that I want to 0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:50.799 tell my friends. I'm not going I don't see me 0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:54.319 meeting my person on a dating app. And I'm like, well, then, 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:57.640 how do you see in today's world, especially in a pandemic, 0:44:57.680 --> 0:44:59.560 how do you think it's going to happen. It's just 0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:02.480 the most efficient way for most people to date. And 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:04.799 I have tons of other strategies which we will not 0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:07.080 have time to get into today of how you can 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.680 meet someone I r L or online, but off of 0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:14.359 the dating app specifically. But the reality is there's so 0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:17.080 much more labor intensive. So you think you're exhausted now 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:19.960 on the dating apps, honey, let me tell you about 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:22.200 the other things and then you'll be like running back 0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:24.480 to the dating app, but just to really put some 0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:27.920 framework around it for yourself. So I'm going to do 0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:30.440 this app for a month, and I find that between 0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:33.480 four and six weeks is when the dating app options 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:36.719 tend to wane, and that's when people start to get 0:45:36.760 --> 0:45:39.439 anxious and frustrated because they feel like, oh, now I've 0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:41.440 done all this work and I'm down to the bottom 0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:44.800 of the barrel. You then cycle in your second app, 0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:47.520 and you pull back on your first app, so it 0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:50.120 always feels like you have a pool of new matches 0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:52.919 and it always feels like something is happening, and then 0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:56.120 you can cycle back to the first one once you've 0:45:56.160 --> 0:45:59.400 done four to six weeks on that other. So usually 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:02.000 by that time, most of my clients are in relationships 0:46:02.040 --> 0:46:04.719 within three months when they date with this kind of 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:08.200 clarity and purpose. But if you get to that three 0:46:08.239 --> 0:46:11.560 month point and you're like, I'm just exhausted and I've 0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:14.960 cycled did what Tamona said, I cycled through the apps. 0:46:15.040 --> 0:46:18.480 There's nobody out here. Just take a break, take two 0:46:18.600 --> 0:46:21.399 to four weeks. Take a break. I'm going to work 0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:24.200 on myself. I'm going to get comfortable in my solo hood, 0:46:25.120 --> 0:46:27.279 and then I might think about going back on the 0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:28.880 app in a month and give yourself a time that 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:30.960 you'll go back to it, because that's the other thing. 0:46:31.239 --> 0:46:33.319 People push the whole thing away and they say, oh, 0:46:33.520 --> 0:46:36.000 I'm too overwhelmed. I'm just not going to do it, 0:46:36.480 --> 0:46:39.279 and then you find yourself six months later going, wait 0:46:39.320 --> 0:46:41.799 a minute, I could have been in a relationship by now, 0:46:41.840 --> 0:46:44.040 I could have been going on dates, but I just 0:46:44.560 --> 0:46:47.520 I got so overwhelmed that I pushed the whole thing away. 0:46:47.560 --> 0:46:49.360 And that's not a place that I want anybody to 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:55.440 get to. Wow. Wow. So having a really clear process around, 0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:59.319 a plan around the apps can help mitigate some of 0:46:59.400 --> 0:47:02.200 that exhaust and some of that Like, it's very overwhelming 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.479 at times. For sure, I've definitely experienced that myself. Wow, 0:47:06.640 --> 0:47:09.680 demon a girl, you have like given me so much 0:47:09.719 --> 0:47:12.080 to think about and hopefully given so many of our 0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:13.960 listeners out there so much to think about. I like 0:47:14.120 --> 0:47:17.640 to end with this question, what else is true? And 0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:21.560 this question comes from both and this right in a 0:47:21.600 --> 0:47:25.040 world where things can be very, very challenging, I think 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:28.359 it's been really great to be able to focus on 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:32.239 what is neutral and positive in my life. So for you, 0:47:32.360 --> 0:47:35.520 right now, at this moment and these these most challenging 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:42.360 of times, what else is true for you? MM? Hmm. Wow, 0:47:42.520 --> 0:47:44.920 that is such. That is such a good question, And 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:47.960 I really love this idea of duality, right, that you 0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:52.160 can hold two things that are on the surface opposing 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:56.400 at the same time. So I would say it is 0:47:56.440 --> 0:48:04.600 true that I appreciating being quarantined with my family and 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:08.120 at the same time ready for this to end. I 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.359 feel like I've learned so much about my kids and 0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:15.200 my husband and I have really clarified our communication during 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:20.319 this time, and that has been so valuable, and I 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.400 don't see it ending anytime soon. But I really like 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.000 to look for the silver lining. Yeah, this is the 0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:28.239 most awful thing that is ever going to happen to 0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:30.799 us in our lifetimes, I think for most of us, 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:35.879 and we're gonna be okay. Like when something I don't 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:39.360 want to have happen happens, I say, where is the 0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:43.960 lesson here? And sometimes it doesn't reveal itself immediately, but 0:48:44.080 --> 0:48:47.759 in time it usually does, and I know that I'm 0:48:47.840 --> 0:48:53.359 the better and the stronger for having gone through it. Absolutely. 0:48:54.200 --> 0:48:58.000 Thank you so much, Demona Hoffman. That way, it's incredible 0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:02.240 you can find Ammona on her own podcast dates and mates. 0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:06.240 Where else can folks find your Demona I'm on Instagram, Twitter, 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:11.720 Facebook at Demona Hoffman and also at dates and mates 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:13.600 dot com and I have some free goodies there for 0:49:13.640 --> 0:49:16.399 your listeners if they go check out the podcast and 0:49:16.680 --> 0:49:21.719 they can get their online dating life in order as well. Amazing. 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:25.600 Thank you so much, Demona Hoffman, you are incredible. Thank you, 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:33.160 Thank you, Laverne. Demona gave us so very much to 0:49:33.239 --> 0:49:38.080 think about, so many tools, and I think that's all 0:49:38.120 --> 0:49:41.960 really really useful. I think where I'm at now is 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:46.240 that when I go back out there into dating land, 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.680 into app land, that I want to make sure that 0:49:48.800 --> 0:49:51.799 I do it from a place of worthiness and I 0:49:51.840 --> 0:49:55.400 am worthy of connection and belonging, that I'm worthy of love, 0:49:55.880 --> 0:50:00.560 and that I am lovable, and that I spreads the 0:50:00.640 --> 0:50:06.799 deepest love towards myself, because, as RuPaul reminds us, how 0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:08.320 the hell you go and love somebody else if you 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:12.919 don't love yourself. So good luck on your search for love. 0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:20.920 Thank you for listening to the Laverne Cox Show. If 0:50:20.920 --> 0:50:24.120 you like what you here, please rate, review, subscribe, and 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:28.440 share with everyone you know. Next week, we'll be talking 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:32.680 with author and fat activist Virgie Tobar about fat phobia 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:36.440 and diet culture. You can find me on Instagram and 0:50:36.480 --> 0:50:39.880 Twitter at Laverne Cox and on Facebook at Laverne Cox 0:50:39.920 --> 0:50:47.160 for Real. Until next time, stay in the love. The 0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:50.080 Laverne Cox Show is a production of Shondaland Audio in 0:50:50.160 --> 0:50:54.240 partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:58.120 visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:50:58.160 --> 0:50:59.600 you listen to your favorite shows.