Speaker 1: Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a reduction of shondaland
Speaker 1: audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. We can get
Speaker 1: really off track thinking about all of the what if
Speaker 1: should have beens that person that fetishized us, or that
Speaker 1: discussed or whatever. But don't give the energy to those people.
Speaker 1: You're feeling exhausted because you're giving an energy. Speak he though, everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. Now you will
Speaker 1: find on this podcast that I am a huge fan
Speaker 1: of Renee Brown and her work. Renee Brown is a researcher.
Speaker 1: She studies shame, vulnerability, courage. I reference her literally all
Speaker 1: the time. And one of the things her research shows
Speaker 1: is that human beings are hardwired for story and in
Speaker 1: the absence of data, Uh, we make up stories, now, girl.
Speaker 1: Nowhere have I made up stories in the absence of
Speaker 1: data more than when it comes to men, dating and
Speaker 1: relationships and any of the sort of demographic things about ourselves.
Speaker 1: We can't control, things like race, gender, identity, socio economic status,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Now, I plan to have a series of
Speaker 1: conversations about dating and all of these things, but today
Speaker 1: I want to focus on age, specifically dating over forty.
Speaker 1: I'm forty eight years old and single now for over
Speaker 1: a year and a half, and this is the first
Speaker 1: time in my life I am dating as someone openly
Speaker 1: over forty, meaning I no longer lie, deflect, pivot, obstut, kate,
Speaker 1: do full on matrix moves honey to avoid talking about
Speaker 1: my age. So today my guest to certified dating coach
Speaker 1: and media personality Demona Hoffman. She is the host of
Speaker 1: the podcast Dates and Mates with Demona Hoffman, a frequent
Speaker 1: contry a video to The l A Times, The Washington Post, NPR,
Speaker 1: and more. Most recently, Demona can be seen doling out
Speaker 1: love advice on the Drew Barrymore Show. I have a
Speaker 1: lot to talk about, Demona. Demona, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1: How are you doing today? I'm living my best life?
Speaker 1: Thank you? How are you? I'm awesome and I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to have this conversation with you. Can you first
Speaker 1: of all tell us how one becomes a dating expert?
Speaker 1: What how does that happen? It usually happens by becoming
Speaker 1: a dating disaster first and then figuring out the way
Speaker 1: to do it correctly. So I was way back in
Speaker 1: olden times when there weren't even dating apps. There were
Speaker 1: dating sites. I was dating, frustrated, somewhat unsuccessful, very cynical
Speaker 1: about love la Verne, and I ended up finding a
Speaker 1: strategy that work because I was actually working as a
Speaker 1: casting director at the time in in TV, and I
Speaker 1: was teaching classes for actors in marketing and having headshots
Speaker 1: that would stand out to someone like me. So you
Speaker 1: could probably tell there's a similarity between what I would
Speaker 1: tell actors about getting noticed by the right kind of
Speaker 1: people and what I needed to do to get noticed
Speaker 1: by the right kind of guys online. So I ended
Speaker 1: up using those strategies to meet my husband, and then
Speaker 1: so many people came to me, just friends and family,
Speaker 1: for help, saying, well, I tried online dating, it didn't work,
Speaker 1: and I say, let me see your profile, and I
Speaker 1: do the same thing, and I got so many calls.
Speaker 1: I'm getting married, I'm having a baby. I thought, Wow,
Speaker 1: maybe this is something that people really need. So I
Speaker 1: became certified as a dating coach and now help people
Speaker 1: all the way from pre date to pre marriage. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: So a dating app is like marketing yourself, and it
Speaker 1: really is right, it really is, And I think a
Speaker 1: lot about Oh my god, my whole process that's going
Speaker 1: into casting, and there's definitely a relationship. For me, I
Speaker 1: can relate to that because I feel like dating and
Speaker 1: auditioning are very similar. Yes, auditions your first date, right,
Speaker 1: and and for me, I know for sure that when
Speaker 1: I go on a first date, I can't be self conscious.
Speaker 1: I eat thinking about how I look. I remember I
Speaker 1: was going on a date in New York, and because
Speaker 1: I've been stood up so many times, I would make
Speaker 1: sure that the first date was a coffee date or
Speaker 1: drink within a block and a half of where I lived,
Speaker 1: and I would not leave my house or my apartment
Speaker 1: until he was already there. And so I remember, like
Speaker 1: he's texted me, He's oh, I'm here, where are you?
Speaker 1: Was like, oh, I'm a block away, And I was
Speaker 1: a block away. I was home. So and as I
Speaker 1: was leaving this one time, I realized that how I
Speaker 1: was feeling really self conscious, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I need to let this go. In the very same
Speaker 1: way with my feeling self conscious when I go into
Speaker 1: an audition. If I'm thinking about how I look, I'm
Speaker 1: not in the character. I'm not in the authenticity of
Speaker 1: where I need to be for the circumstances of the scene,
Speaker 1: and so too for dating. Even though I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: my best, I have to be in my authenticity, which
Speaker 1: is not about how I look. Yes, and I'm all
Speaker 1: about authenticity. My tagline is love as you are, and
Speaker 1: that's basically my philosophy. After doing this now for almost
Speaker 1: sixteen years, I've been helping people with dating profiles, and
Speaker 1: I've seen that the more you bring your whole self
Speaker 1: to the table, not like all your baggage, let me
Speaker 1: throw all my baggage on the table and see if
Speaker 1: he runs away. But the more you really bring your
Speaker 1: authentic self, like you were saying, into the room, the
Speaker 1: more that you will be able to make a real connection.
Speaker 1: And I heard your last boyfriend that you met on Tinder,
Speaker 1: you didn't even wear makeup to the day, right, did not?
Speaker 1: So back then I found like I used to spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time getting ready for dates, and then
Speaker 1: I would meet him and then there wouldn't be a connection.
Speaker 1: And I spent all this time and I just felt
Speaker 1: like annoyed, and so I was like, okay. Speically, when
Speaker 1: I became a little more known, I was like, he
Speaker 1: knows what I look like with makeup and kind of glad.
Speaker 1: So let me just not about not putting pressure on it,
Speaker 1: and I show up as myself because eventually, if we're date,
Speaker 1: he's going to see me without makeup anyway, so he
Speaker 1: needs to be okay without everything, you know. And also
Speaker 1: you'll enjoy the process more if there's all this pretense
Speaker 1: of I have to do so much to get ready
Speaker 1: for the date, and I have to be thinking so
Speaker 1: much about what I'm saying and how I'm saying it
Speaker 1: on the date. You can't ever be free. You can't
Speaker 1: ever let go and just be yourself, now can. I
Speaker 1: really wanted to talk to you today, specifically about dating
Speaker 1: over forty. I am forty years old now and I've
Speaker 1: been single for over a year and a half, and
Speaker 1: this is the first time in my life that I
Speaker 1: am dating as an openly over forty woman, meaning for
Speaker 1: years I lied about my age, and two years ago
Speaker 1: I started owning my age and I was still in
Speaker 1: relationship at the time, and so now I'm single and
Speaker 1: I'm back on the apps. I do not put my
Speaker 1: real age in my profile though, because I think the
Speaker 1: algorithms are ages or very few minute feel like and
Speaker 1: this could be a story I've told myself. I feel
Speaker 1: like very few men are searching for forty year old
Speaker 1: black trans women. That's my thought. I could be wrong.
Speaker 1: Tell me I'm wrong if you have the data or
Speaker 1: back it up, you know. But once I start talking
Speaker 1: to them, I tell them my real age. I'm very
Speaker 1: happy and proud to be forty eight. But like, what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on? There's so much, like I just said,
Speaker 1: so much. They're right about lying about your age algorithms. Girl.
Speaker 1: First of all, when I heard you want to talk
Speaker 1: about dating over forty, I was like, well, Laver, it's
Speaker 1: over forty. It just goes to show that age is
Speaker 1: just a number, right, It's really more about the mindset
Speaker 1: and the energy level, the things you like doing, and
Speaker 1: having somebody who has common goals for the future. Yes,
Speaker 1: can I pause you there? Though, I'm sorry. This is
Speaker 1: where I want to challenge you. I've listened to your podcast,
Speaker 1: I've read you fairly extensively, and you talk a lot
Speaker 1: about mindset and how we frame things, and I'm all
Speaker 1: about that. I'm all about manifesting the lives that we want.
Speaker 1: But I feel like in the realm of dating and
Speaker 1: I it was a part of me that's very hopeful
Speaker 1: and optimistic and another part of me that is super
Speaker 1: cynical because we are dealing with at least I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with men. I'm dealing with straight identified men of all
Speaker 1: age groups, and I feel like so much of everything
Speaker 1: is thrown out the window when it comes to that.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that cynical chick out there
Speaker 1: who's probably like me, who's like, well, yeah, I can
Speaker 1: manifest this and that can have the right mindset, but
Speaker 1: men are still gonna be men. It's true. It's true,
Speaker 1: men are going to be men. But I'll I can
Speaker 1: back this up with receipts and with research. So it's
Speaker 1: not so much the algorithms as the way people search
Speaker 1: it is skewed. Two disadvantage women over forty. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna put that all out there. But I say that
Speaker 1: because I have been able to help women over forty,
Speaker 1: over fifty, over sixty, who all come to me and say, well,
Speaker 1: men always want someone younger. I have if women in
Speaker 1: their thirties coming to me saying men always want someone younger.
Speaker 1: So if men are always true, but if they're always
Speaker 1: looking for someone younger, how do I get people to
Speaker 1: these relationships, and that's by taking different action. And this
Speaker 1: is the key I teach people how to beat the algorithm,
Speaker 1: because if you are more proactive, if you are broader
Speaker 1: in your search, and like a lot of the swipe apps,
Speaker 1: you cannot do that much to change the algorithm. Like
Speaker 1: on an Okay, keep it or a match, you can
Speaker 1: send an outgoing message and this is something that most
Speaker 1: women do not do. And from the beginning sixteen years
Speaker 1: ago when I started coaching on online dating, I've always
Speaker 1: had women be pro active. When Bumble came along, I
Speaker 1: was like, I got this. I've been I've been teaching
Speaker 1: people this for so long because it really does shift
Speaker 1: the algorithm, and it does improve your chances because, like
Speaker 1: you said, they might not be searching for you, but
Speaker 1: if you come up in their feed and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's sexy, they're going to swipe right. And research shows
Speaker 1: that if a man finds you attractive, he will ignore
Speaker 1: every anything else. He'll ignore the age, will ignore all
Speaker 1: the baggage, everything else, and then he'll just swipe right.
Speaker 1: And that's what you want. You want to get into
Speaker 1: conversation so that you can move things forward. Off of
Speaker 1: the app and into the real world. That's the purpose
Speaker 1: of dating apps. I think people forget that the dating
Speaker 1: app as a tool, and they want to make all
Speaker 1: that connection online and they want to do all this
Speaker 1: vetting and identifying if somebody is right before they put
Speaker 1: any energy in before they show up on the date.
Speaker 1: But it's just the tool, and you can't really tell
Speaker 1: if you have chemistry or if your appropriate match for
Speaker 1: someone until you actually meet. Would you agree with that absolutely?
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with that pre pandemic. When I would
Speaker 1: single before and living in New York, I would make
Speaker 1: sure within matching with someone if we had not met
Speaker 1: for coffee within a week, I would like unmatched. Because
Speaker 1: I've been online dating for twenty years. My first boyfriend
Speaker 1: in two thousand, twenty years ago, I met on the
Speaker 1: dating app. It was a Transpacific dating app twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: So what I learned through like being on Yahoo chat
Speaker 1: rooms a well chat rooms girl I've done at all,
Speaker 1: is that you can literally chat with a guy for years.
Speaker 1: There's a guy named John I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is real name, who I have literally been chatting with
Speaker 1: since probably two thousand five, two thousand six, right for years,
Speaker 1: we just like lost contact. We've never met in person,
Speaker 1: and it just never happened. I was like, when are
Speaker 1: we going to meet? And I just became clear to
Speaker 1: me that he was into talking and having a pinpal
Speaker 1: communication thing, but he was not interested in meeting in person.
Speaker 1: And so that showed me that there are a lot
Speaker 1: of guys like that online the trans thing. Definitely, a
Speaker 1: lot of guys have fantasies about that, but then are
Speaker 1: are really nervous about meeting in person. So then I
Speaker 1: was like, if we're not meeting within a week, this
Speaker 1: is pre pandemic. I would unmatch because I feel I
Speaker 1: was like, he's not really serious post pandemic. It's it's
Speaker 1: all all about video chatting for me, and this video
Speaker 1: chatting has screened out a lot of them. Can I
Speaker 1: tell you I feel a vibe. I feel a vibe
Speaker 1: on the video because sometimes there are pictures there. I
Speaker 1: find them attractive in their pictures, but once the image
Speaker 1: just moving and good or bad lighting, it's like not
Speaker 1: there for me and the personality. Yeah, I'm a big
Speaker 1: fan of the video chat It's funny because I did
Speaker 1: an episode of the Dates and Maids podcast in March,
Speaker 1: like before everything hit first week in March, and I
Speaker 1: was like, this is the future of dating. Get on
Speaker 1: the video chat train, this is where it's going. And
Speaker 1: and I actually came to the same conclusion that you
Speaker 1: did about the one week time frame during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: I've said one no more than one week of chatting
Speaker 1: before you move to the next step. And I realized
Speaker 1: I had to really be very clear and codify that
Speaker 1: for my clients and listeners because I always said, move
Speaker 1: offline as quickly as possible. But what is as quickly
Speaker 1: as possible means? So I'm like, okay, one week. In
Speaker 1: one week, you should know if someone has a true
Speaker 1: interest in you or not. And the problem is that
Speaker 1: a lot of us try to talk ourselves into situations.
Speaker 1: And so many of my clients will say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we really have a connection, or we have a
Speaker 1: really good banter over text. But what you're doing then
Speaker 1: is you're developing a false sense of intimacy. You're developing
Speaker 1: false communication. And so much of communication is not the
Speaker 1: content of the words, and it's definitely not what you
Speaker 1: can take time crafting and right and equippe your response
Speaker 1: or gift or an emoji. It's really in that real
Speaker 1: time communication that I'm trying to get people towards. And
Speaker 1: as you probably saw in the video chat, what people
Speaker 1: perceive from you is your body language, your vocal intonation.
Speaker 1: And then there's that X factor, which I look at
Speaker 1: really as intuition in a way. There's that other layer
Speaker 1: that is hard to quantify, but it's absolutely there. When
Speaker 1: you just say I don't know why I just don't
Speaker 1: feel that connection with that person, I think that's your
Speaker 1: gut speaking, or I don't know why I do feel
Speaker 1: the connection when it's the chemistry that is so sort
Speaker 1: of inexplicable, but it's just there, and it's really rare.
Speaker 1: What I would always say about this for years is
Speaker 1: that it's not real. It's a fantasy. Until we're space
Speaker 1: to face, right, we're projecting, and I really try not
Speaker 1: to do this. I really trying to project a fantasy
Speaker 1: or romantic fantasy onto any man. I've learned the hard
Speaker 1: way from having done that in the past. So what
Speaker 1: are the top three challenges that you find people faith
Speaker 1: and dating over forty Oh boy, that's a big question.
Speaker 1: I have my ideas. I have my ideas, but what
Speaker 1: do you think. Well, one thing that I run into
Speaker 1: a lot, particularly with women over forty, is that your
Speaker 1: life is pretty much formed by the time you're forty.
Speaker 1: You have your friendship circle, you have your career, maybe
Speaker 1: you have kids, you have a life that is already
Speaker 1: very full. And one of the biggest challenges that I
Speaker 1: have when your life is already set like that is
Speaker 1: just creating the space for a mate to come in,
Speaker 1: Because if he comes in and you barely have time
Speaker 1: to have a first date with him, you cancel on him,
Speaker 1: You're always rescheduling him, you have one night available for
Speaker 1: a date, or he feels like you're putting your career
Speaker 1: first and there's no space for him. He needs to
Speaker 1: feel like he has a function. And I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: big on traditional gender dynamics. I don't really buy into
Speaker 1: this idea of like, well, a man has to come
Speaker 1: and save you or have have that kind of function.
Speaker 1: But it's more just like, is there a place for
Speaker 1: him in your life? Can he fit into this world?
Speaker 1: Or are you asking him to change everything about the
Speaker 1: life he's built to be able to fit into the
Speaker 1: life that you have. Wow, that's so deep. I like,
Speaker 1: I laughed earlier because I'm sort of like I might
Speaker 1: that girl because I'm really busy. Yeah, we do that.
Speaker 1: Number two, I would say, is not having clarity on
Speaker 1: your goals for the future and then not being aligned
Speaker 1: in that and being in a different place in your life.
Speaker 1: And then the third thing is just limiting beliefs. This
Speaker 1: belief that I can't meet someone because I'm over forty
Speaker 1: the dating pool is too small, or all men my
Speaker 1: age want to date someone younger, or I'm this race
Speaker 1: and I can I can't meet someone because I'm black,
Speaker 1: or I can't meet someone because I am a few
Speaker 1: pounds overweight, or whatever it is. We really internalize these
Speaker 1: limiting beliefs, and it blocks us from being able to
Speaker 1: experience the love of the one that is so huge.
Speaker 1: How do we change the stories that we tell ourselves
Speaker 1: about ourselves and our circumstances that It's something I'm constantly
Speaker 1: struggling with. And I spent about eight months in therapy
Speaker 1: talking to my therapist and working through some of the
Speaker 1: stories I told myself before I went public with my age,
Speaker 1: and I told myself that I wasn't datable, I wasn't hirable,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't affable over a certain age, and the
Speaker 1: reality at the time is that I was employed, I
Speaker 1: was in a relationship with all this stories I told
Speaker 1: myself around dating over forty we're not true. None of
Speaker 1: them were true. We do that and we create these
Speaker 1: paths and patterns in our mind. These are neural pathways
Speaker 1: confirm what that belief is that you're telling yourself, even though,
Speaker 1: like you just said, the facts did not support that
Speaker 1: belief at all. But the more that you told yourself
Speaker 1: that was true, the more that your brain began to
Speaker 1: believe it. So what I have people do is to
Speaker 1: literally rewrite that. I call them broken beliefs, break that
Speaker 1: belief and rewrite it. So it starts with even just
Speaker 1: writing down, what is that incorrect belief that you've been
Speaker 1: repeating again and again? How often do I repeat that
Speaker 1: to myself? And then right, what is the inverse of that?
Speaker 1: Or what is the phrase that you would like to
Speaker 1: be true or that you have even fifty one percent
Speaker 1: belief that might be actually true in the world. And
Speaker 1: that's that belief is something that I I try to
Speaker 1: infuse in people that it doesn't you don't have to
Speaker 1: be on board with with whatever I'm saying, but if
Speaker 1: you could just believe it's more probable than not to
Speaker 1: be true. Then you can you can take yourself the
Speaker 1: rest of the way with work. And then when you
Speaker 1: are in that situation and you have that limiting belief,
Speaker 1: come up. I have a transition word that I'll have
Speaker 1: my clients like figure out what their transition. For me.
Speaker 1: It's stop. If I have a limiting belief, I'm repeating
Speaker 1: I just in my head, I go stop, stop, and
Speaker 1: then it trains me to reframe it with a more
Speaker 1: positive phrase and belief system. That then I begin to
Speaker 1: carve and root out that different belief system in my mind.
Speaker 1: That you man, I can always give what we want,
Speaker 1: but we get what we believe, and so we have
Speaker 1: to get really clear. I love what you just said
Speaker 1: because we have to get really clear about what we
Speaker 1: believe because we are manifesting right now, right this is
Speaker 1: a good time to take a little break. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back though, after a little love is thrown to
Speaker 1: our responsors. Okay, that's taken care of. Let's get back
Speaker 1: to our chat. So I met my ex when I
Speaker 1: was forty five years old, and I felt madly, deeply,
Speaker 1: truly in love with him. It was incredible. I was
Speaker 1: like head over heels. We dated for two years and
Speaker 1: then it didn't work out. It didn't work out, and
Speaker 1: it was devastating. And I know that there are a
Speaker 1: lot of women out there, people out there, you know,
Speaker 1: of all gender identities, particularly in our forties, who probably
Speaker 1: have had that situation. We've been in love, maybe we've
Speaker 1: experienced a divorce or some kind of breakup and we
Speaker 1: thought we had it. But what does one do, because
Speaker 1: this is real, what does one do when like one
Speaker 1: has been you know, hopeful about love and it did
Speaker 1: work out. Well. I look at every single relationship that
Speaker 1: you have teaching you something as giving you something. I
Speaker 1: never look at it as wasted time. And really, when
Speaker 1: people come to me and it's really raw, like they
Speaker 1: haven't really processed it like you have, we can't do
Speaker 1: the kind of work that I do in that space.
Speaker 1: That's when I say, talk to a therapist, do some
Speaker 1: self care, and then come back to me when you're
Speaker 1: ready to actually date, because this is hardcore dating strategy.
Speaker 1: This is when you're like, Okay, I'm ready, I've processed this.
Speaker 1: But I think everything that you learn from that you'll
Speaker 1: take into the next relationship. And I also like when
Speaker 1: people tell me oh, I tried online dating it didn't work,
Speaker 1: or I had a relationship and it didn't work. I said,
Speaker 1: what it did work. It did work for that time.
Speaker 1: Tender worked for you for a time, and that relationship,
Speaker 1: even though you had hoped that it would continue long term,
Speaker 1: it was the right relationship for you for that time
Speaker 1: and for that season. Absolutely, And that's what I tried
Speaker 1: to first to do, is to give honor to that
Speaker 1: relationship and the function that it's served in the place
Speaker 1: that I served in your life at that time. I
Speaker 1: definitely feel that, and I'm happy that it's over, and
Speaker 1: being honest, i feel like I'm in a different place
Speaker 1: and I'm wishing him all the best, of course, just
Speaker 1: to get out there again, though. Can you have been
Speaker 1: on the apps, You've been in a monogamous relationship, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're back out there and men
Speaker 1: are doing the same thing they were doing on the
Speaker 1: ass before, all of the men wanting to send pictures
Speaker 1: of their privates and all sort of being overly sexualized
Speaker 1: and all the things that happened to people online, specifically
Speaker 1: I think women. But just the weariness of it all.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Because I'm just like
Speaker 1: I just talked to my girlfriends all the time, and
Speaker 1: we're constantly talking about like how weary we are. And
Speaker 1: there's a certain cynicism because we see the same things
Speaker 1: over and over again with men. And I think too,
Speaker 1: I always want to be as accountable as possible. If
Speaker 1: I'm seeing the same thing over and over game, what's
Speaker 1: my part in it? Am I inviting that same energy?
Speaker 1: Am I sending it out? That energy out and that's
Speaker 1: what I'm getting back? And so for me, it's always
Speaker 1: a question of, like my personal responsibility, and then what's
Speaker 1: the stemming What is just agism and sexism and misogyny
Speaker 1: sort of playing itself out and how men date And
Speaker 1: none of this is easy. That's the other thing, Like,
Speaker 1: this is what we're here to do. This is our work, really,
Speaker 1: And what you said, I know resonates. I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: resonate with a lot of your listeners because when when
Speaker 1: you are dating in your forties, you have past experiences,
Speaker 1: you have stuff. I said baggage before, but it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily baggage. I think it's just your story. And there's
Speaker 1: the story that you're living, and then there's the story
Speaker 1: you're telling. Yourself about what that story means. Right, there's
Speaker 1: how you're interpreting the story. And so I'm curious to
Speaker 1: ask you, Laverne. We're gonna turn this into a little
Speaker 1: bit of a coaching sessh, real quick, what do you
Speaker 1: feel like you learned from that relationship that you would
Speaker 1: take into the next relationship now having a year and
Speaker 1: a half to reflect on it? Oh so much. I
Speaker 1: think the biggest thing for me is that true love
Speaker 1: is possible, like a really and truly reciprocal loving relationship
Speaker 1: where we're both on the same page, where he is
Speaker 1: just is in love with me as I am with him,
Speaker 1: and that I can show every aspect of who I
Speaker 1: am to a partner and still be loved. That is
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing that I've taken away from that relationship.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. That's really valuable experience. And as far as
Speaker 1: this idea of I have to go back out and
Speaker 1: do it again and it's the same old stuff, and
Speaker 1: it is, but now you have perspective and knowledge that
Speaker 1: maybe you didn't have three years ago before you begin
Speaker 1: this process, and so now you're making that into the
Speaker 1: next relationship. Now you're filtering dates based on that and
Speaker 1: to me that possibility is really exciting. And I know that,
Speaker 1: like you said, it is a bit of a numbers game,
Speaker 1: but I look at it more as it's a process.
Speaker 1: I'm always like, what's your plan to meet your man? Right?
Speaker 1: It's a plan that you're following, and that if you
Speaker 1: trust the process and you trust the plan that you've
Speaker 1: made for yourself, that the right relationship will come in
Speaker 1: at the right time. Can I also say one of
Speaker 1: the things I learned from my last relationship is how
Speaker 1: in my last two relationships is the question of children
Speaker 1: because I don't want to have kids. I've always been
Speaker 1: very clear that I don't want to have children. Obviously,
Speaker 1: people can adopt their surrogus, there is all sorts of
Speaker 1: ways to have children now, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: be a parent. But my last relationship, he was thinking
Speaker 1: about kids and we met he was twenty eight and
Speaker 1: I was forty five, and he turned thirty and was like,
Speaker 1: I really want to have kids, and like, so I
Speaker 1: get that, I really understand it, but I feel like
Speaker 1: I want to have a little bit more clarity before
Speaker 1: I get serious with a man around the question of children.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to deal with that again, that's
Speaker 1: another good learning and it's interesting. I'm seeing a little
Speaker 1: bit of shift, i would say, in the last five
Speaker 1: years or so with a lot of my clients that
Speaker 1: are approaching forty or over forty around kids. Some of
Speaker 1: them feel a lot of pressure like they are in
Speaker 1: this rush now all of a sudden, I have to
Speaker 1: have kids, and now I have to just I'll just
Speaker 1: pick anybody. And for those I'm like, this is why
Speaker 1: we have I v F, we have medical interventions. There
Speaker 1: are solutions for you to You don't have to just
Speaker 1: partner with anybody just because you want kids, Like that's
Speaker 1: this is the most important decision I think you'll ever
Speaker 1: make the person you're going to spend theoretically the rest
Speaker 1: of your life with. So it's not a decision to
Speaker 1: be taken lightly. And then I'm also seeing a lot
Speaker 1: of women now who are choosing not to have kids
Speaker 1: and get actually a lot of pushback from men that
Speaker 1: either think they're trying to trap them, like oh, you
Speaker 1: must really want kids, because all women in their thirties
Speaker 1: and forties want kids. And it's almost like society is
Speaker 1: just catching up to where we are in terms of
Speaker 1: our goals and our identity as women, and so there's
Speaker 1: gonna be a period I think of dissonance. It's this
Speaker 1: big pot that we're stirring of people having different desires
Speaker 1: from the traditional relationship and everyone who grew up with
Speaker 1: their classical well, you get married and then you have
Speaker 1: kids having to reframe their thoughts on this and it's
Speaker 1: a tricky time. So that brings me to another thought
Speaker 1: um that I have that it's frustrating. I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of women over forty who might make more
Speaker 1: money than their potential partners, that rolls are different. I
Speaker 1: what I say to my girlfriends a lot that women
Speaker 1: over the past thirty forty years have really been thinking
Speaker 1: differently about our role in the world, and we're empowered
Speaker 1: in ways that we've never been before, which is absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1: We understand our power. We're like taking care of ourselves,
Speaker 1: we make our own money. And I don't see a
Speaker 1: mass movement of men who are actually along for the
Speaker 1: ride with us. And maybe I'm looking in the wrong
Speaker 1: places or those men just get taken very quickly, but
Speaker 1: I feel I feel like women are in this incredible
Speaker 1: place where we are redefining what roles are for ourselves
Speaker 1: and what the rules are for ourselves. And I know
Speaker 1: this conversation is very hetero sexist. I'm a woman who
Speaker 1: dates men, so I'm just that's when when I'm talking
Speaker 1: about this. So what are your thoughts on men right
Speaker 1: now and where they are? I do believe that it
Speaker 1: is emasculating still for a lot of men when a
Speaker 1: woman may more money than them. Well, you you just
Speaker 1: set a mouthful there too. And usually I really like
Speaker 1: to speak from a place of research that I've seen
Speaker 1: or clients trends or experiences specifically, and I really I
Speaker 1: don't have the research to back up what I'm about
Speaker 1: to say, so I'm just gonna put that out there.
Speaker 1: I have personally been seeing a shift towards men being
Speaker 1: open to redefining roles. But I'll say it's also about
Speaker 1: the way that you're dating and like the filtering. So
Speaker 1: in my program I talk about five steps. There's mindset
Speaker 1: sourcing where you're finding, it's screening and then presentation and
Speaker 1: follow through. And I find a lot of people get
Speaker 1: caught up in the mindset and the screening parts. Mindset
Speaker 1: is like what am I looking for? What am I
Speaker 1: bringing to the table, and what do I want what
Speaker 1: are my goals for the future, what are my values
Speaker 1: right and and people are just still quite confused on that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people will tell me I'll know it when I
Speaker 1: see it, and I'm like, well, then you're never going
Speaker 1: to see it, because if you're waiting for it to
Speaker 1: be presented to you without clarity of what you're looking for,
Speaker 1: it's going to just blend into the background. But then
Speaker 1: as we are screening through dates, I like to have
Speaker 1: a really clear criteria that you are matching against. And
Speaker 1: if someone doesn't meet like your core three goals or values,
Speaker 1: that person is not a match, regardless if they're you know,
Speaker 1: really cute, they're really good in bed, if they want
Speaker 1: kids and you don't want kids, it's not a match.
Speaker 1: Let's not go down that road. And so like for me,
Speaker 1: when I was single, I had clarity that I was
Speaker 1: looking for a man who was going to be a
Speaker 1: caretaker to my children, and I was looking for a
Speaker 1: fifty fifty partnership. I was not looking for any traditional
Speaker 1: gender dynamics that was not for me because I knew
Speaker 1: I'm going to be making money, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: my career, I might want to have kids. I assume
Speaker 1: I'll have kids, but if I do, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be the only one taking care of them. And
Speaker 1: so when I met my husband, he was broke, he
Speaker 1: was an aspiring writer, he was trying to make it,
Speaker 1: but he was the most intelligent man that I had
Speaker 1: ever met, and he was really caring and he really
Speaker 1: wanted to be an active partner and have a family
Speaker 1: that he could also participate in taking care of. And
Speaker 1: here we sit in the middle of a pandemic and
Speaker 1: I am here recording with you, and my husband is
Speaker 1: inside taking care of the kids. This has been our
Speaker 1: dynamic for the last ten years. And I think back
Speaker 1: and I'm like, so grateful that I had that foresight
Speaker 1: to plan for the partner that I wanted in my life.
Speaker 1: I think it's really just more about creating a balance
Speaker 1: and the dynamic that you want when you build out
Speaker 1: your life. And this is why we visualize. I'll have
Speaker 1: you placed yourself a year in the future in the
Speaker 1: arms of that person that you're with, and go through
Speaker 1: a day in the life of what it would it
Speaker 1: be like to be with that person. And when you
Speaker 1: get that kind of clarity before you go onto the
Speaker 1: dating apps, because that will challenge every belief and every
Speaker 1: goal that you have. But when you have that clarity
Speaker 1: right and you move forward from that place of conviction
Speaker 1: and clarity, you will meet the person that is best
Speaker 1: suited for you and that life that you want to build.
Speaker 1: I love that. That was beautiful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I think that clarity about what your core values are,
Speaker 1: absolutely getting what those three values are and not wavering
Speaker 1: on those. What are the things we need to let
Speaker 1: go of? Right? Because for me, I let go of
Speaker 1: height in my last relationship. I let go of height,
Speaker 1: and then if he should make more money than me,
Speaker 1: I'd let go of that a long time ago, especially
Speaker 1: for women over for it. What are the things we
Speaker 1: should be letting go of to allow ourselves to open
Speaker 1: up our dating pool? You got the big two height age.
Speaker 1: I also, I've been writing a lot about race. I
Speaker 1: didn't realize how much, how so many people are really
Speaker 1: letting race be a factor when they don't live their
Speaker 1: lives in that way. Like people would say, oh, black
Speaker 1: lives matter, I'm so woke, right, and then but then
Speaker 1: they would come to me and check every box on
Speaker 1: the dating profile. Interested in white Asian I'm speaking of
Speaker 1: Caucasian people. But I also see this from the black
Speaker 1: community as well. They check every box but black or
Speaker 1: I work with black clients who are like, must must
Speaker 1: be a black man, it just has to be. And
Speaker 1: then I start to unpack that with the five wise
Speaker 1: if you ever heard of this business technique where you
Speaker 1: start with one why, and then that why leads you
Speaker 1: to the next why, and the next why and the
Speaker 1: next why. And as I asked these wise of people,
Speaker 1: why does he have to be black? Or why can't
Speaker 1: he be black? And we unpack it, we realize that
Speaker 1: biases at the core. But I think there's the thing
Speaker 1: of like our bias, right, like our implicit biases that
Speaker 1: we have, and then there's the thing of attraction. What
Speaker 1: I do know for sure too is I can't make
Speaker 1: myself be attracted to someone that I'm not. And one
Speaker 1: of the worst things I can do for myself as
Speaker 1: a data is to date someone that I'm not attracted to,
Speaker 1: because then the physical intimacy, it becomes a chore and
Speaker 1: it's just awful. So I think getting a clarity around
Speaker 1: what is biased that we might have, right that our
Speaker 1: implicit bias or internalized racism if we will, or internalized agism,
Speaker 1: and then what is just I'm attracted to this person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just seeing who might come in when you open
Speaker 1: up the door to a possibility that you had completely
Speaker 1: blocked out. I do agree with you. Race is different
Speaker 1: than age, and this is why I was saying earlier
Speaker 1: that it's about being with somebody who wants the same
Speaker 1: things that you do for the future. So I look
Speaker 1: at four factors of long term compatibility. There is mutual respect,
Speaker 1: of course, communication and conflict resolution. So there's communication when
Speaker 1: the times are good, but then a conflict resolution when
Speaker 1: you run into the bumps in the road and you
Speaker 1: certainly will. And then the two that I feel our
Speaker 1: most important predictors of long term compatibility are common goals
Speaker 1: for the future and shared values. And those are sometimes
Speaker 1: the things that are hard to put down on paper.
Speaker 1: What are my values? My values are to be inclusive
Speaker 1: and to be compassionate and understanding. I have these conversations
Speaker 1: with my husband, who I also consider a feminist, And
Speaker 1: there was a picture of him when he was like
Speaker 1: three years old that his mom showed me earlier when
Speaker 1: we were dating, and it says men of quality respect
Speaker 1: women's equality, and I was like, yes, this is the
Speaker 1: guy that I want to be with you from a
Speaker 1: young age. It's like we are equal. He does not
Speaker 1: open doors for me. I was because he's like, you
Speaker 1: could open the door. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 1: I'm fine with it. I again, I think that we've
Speaker 1: just been sold a bill of goods from rom comms
Speaker 1: and fairy tales, and I just think none of it
Speaker 1: really applies to our our real lives. I think it's
Speaker 1: mutual respect. And every time when I look at a
Speaker 1: relationship that has lasted the test of time, they have
Speaker 1: those four things, those four pillars that they're on the
Speaker 1: same page about. That's really what it is. You can
Speaker 1: make it through anything if you can get on the
Speaker 1: same page on those things. But that's the thing with
Speaker 1: age is the goals for the future. So if you're
Speaker 1: dating someone that is twenty eight, they might not want
Speaker 1: the same thing that you do in the future. They
Speaker 1: might come to the conclusion in two years that they
Speaker 1: want kids. And inversely, if you're dating someone who's sixty,
Speaker 1: they might be retired and they might be like, love her,
Speaker 1: why you work in so much much? We're supposed to
Speaker 1: go to the Bahamas, you know, that's where the friction
Speaker 1: comes in because the lifestyles are not aligned. So I
Speaker 1: don't look specifically at the numbers, but I look at
Speaker 1: what is the lifestyle that that person is living and
Speaker 1: wants to live, and does that align with what you want? Beautiful? Beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's time for a short break and we come back
Speaker 1: more with our guest, and of course what else is true? Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm loving where this conversation is going without further ado.
Speaker 1: But I think about that woman out there who may
Speaker 1: be fat or might be not attractive by conventional standards,
Speaker 1: and it's really struggling with love. And so the space
Speaker 1: of knowing real love becomes really difficult because we don't
Speaker 1: fit into a lot of men's idea of what they
Speaker 1: think they want. People who don't fit into that idea
Speaker 1: of the perfect mate and is struggling with even like
Speaker 1: wanting to put themselves out there. What would you say
Speaker 1: to them around the search for love? Yeah, it's funny
Speaker 1: that you said that, because as you were talking, I
Speaker 1: was actually remembering my own experience. And I've been up
Speaker 1: and down the scale many times. I joke, I've lost
Speaker 1: the same ten pounds twenty times, and so I can
Speaker 1: actually relate because one of the things that was so
Speaker 1: frustrating for me about dating before online dating was I
Speaker 1: didn't feel attractive. I go out with my girlfriends and
Speaker 1: I would be the last one to get a phone
Speaker 1: number or get asked to dance or whatever. And that
Speaker 1: was really that did a number on me for a
Speaker 1: long time, because I was like, I feel like I
Speaker 1: look all right, but I guess in this dating pool,
Speaker 1: this isn't what these people are looking for. And I
Speaker 1: think it was that ability to say, this is not
Speaker 1: my pool, this is not my pool of people. And
Speaker 1: some of that is spying into that belief system and
Speaker 1: knowing that you're going to find your people. If you
Speaker 1: keep going, you're going to find your people, and we're
Speaker 1: going for quality over quantity. That is another thing that
Speaker 1: a lot of women, especially women over forty, get caught
Speaker 1: up with because they're like, well, in my twenties, I
Speaker 1: had all of these guys, but now I'm in my forties,
Speaker 1: it feels like nothing's happening. And that's because not all
Speaker 1: of those people are going to be for you. Yes,
Speaker 1: the dating pool does does change, but we're only looking
Speaker 1: for one and I'm speaking to people who are looking
Speaker 1: for monogamy. That's most of my audience. So that said,
Speaker 1: there is a person out there for you, and if
Speaker 1: you're not feeling the love that person, I have this
Speaker 1: thank and release strategy like Marie Condo. I I say, Okay,
Speaker 1: that person wasn't for me. I thank them for whatever
Speaker 1: it was that brought them to me, and I released
Speaker 1: them back into the wild. And then I focus my
Speaker 1: attention on what what do I really want and finding
Speaker 1: somebody who is going to align with that, because we
Speaker 1: can get really off track thinking about all of the
Speaker 1: what if should have beens that person that fetishized us,
Speaker 1: or that dissed us or whatever. But don't give the
Speaker 1: energy to those people you're feeling exhausted because you're giving
Speaker 1: an energy, save it. Conserve the energy for the people
Speaker 1: who are going to be appreciative of all the things.
Speaker 1: And I have also found love for women of all
Speaker 1: different body types. And I know that men men are
Speaker 1: looking for women of all shapes and sizes, and I
Speaker 1: find that women are so much harder on ourselves and
Speaker 1: our bodies. And I say this speaking also from my
Speaker 1: own experience. So many times I'm just like, oh, I
Speaker 1: think it's so bad, and this I can't wear that,
Speaker 1: and my husband is like, I don't even see that.
Speaker 1: Someone told me this this phrase many years ago. Don't
Speaker 1: yuck somebody else's yum. It's like the food. If you're
Speaker 1: eating food with somebody and then you're like, oh, girls,
Speaker 1: I can't believe. Like I hate avocado. I can't believe
Speaker 1: you love avocado. It's disgusting. But I say the same
Speaker 1: thing with dating. If I'm like, oh, my body looks terrible,
Speaker 1: I can't believe anybody would find as attractive. How is
Speaker 1: he going to get excited looking at my body if
Speaker 1: he thinks that you think your body is undateable or unattractive.
Speaker 1: So it starts always with our relationship to ourselves, with anything,
Speaker 1: particularly love and dating that I need to feel enough
Speaker 1: and being okay alone. I found it has been really
Speaker 1: crucial to being able to be partnered with someone else
Speaker 1: and then need to even date. You said something about
Speaker 1: monogamy and the one. Do you believe in the concept
Speaker 1: of the one and that one soulmate who's going to
Speaker 1: hate complete as? Obviously I don't believe in another human
Speaker 1: being completing me. But what are your thoughts on soulmates
Speaker 1: and the concept of the one? Know? I don't think
Speaker 1: there's no one. I think there are a lot of ones.
Speaker 1: And this concept of finding the one, it's funny. I
Speaker 1: just did on Instagram survey on this and sev the
Speaker 1: people said they do believe in the one, They do
Speaker 1: believe in soulmates, and I think it keeps a lot
Speaker 1: of people single because you're like the grass is always greener,
Speaker 1: this person is good, but could there be something better?
Speaker 1: Because this person feels like a good match. But are
Speaker 1: they my soul mate? Are they the one? And if
Speaker 1: you broaden out, you're thinking to any of these people
Speaker 1: could be possible matches, then you're not searching for a
Speaker 1: needle in a haystack. And then I feel that that
Speaker 1: gives you the hope to be able to keep going.
Speaker 1: And you said something that I think is really really key, um,
Speaker 1: because if we hear a lot about self love, love yourself,
Speaker 1: and I feel like everybody now is like, wait, what
Speaker 1: does that even mean? But you said it it's like
Speaker 1: being alone and being okay. And I had to go
Speaker 1: through this this journey myself as well. I I remember
Speaker 1: I was feeling my time and I know a lot
Speaker 1: of your listeners can relate to this. I had every
Speaker 1: inch of my schedule blocked, and my coach said, I
Speaker 1: want you to block out time for yourself the same
Speaker 1: way that you would give time to another person or
Speaker 1: another job. Block out that time and treat that like
Speaker 1: that is golden. You cannot cancel on yourself. Then when
Speaker 1: the more that I started planning that solo time, the
Speaker 1: more I started to look forward to that solo time,
Speaker 1: and then I started to figure out what do I
Speaker 1: enjoy doing apart from someone else, Because if you're going
Speaker 1: from relationship to the relationship, you know what you used
Speaker 1: to do with them, what they liked to do. But
Speaker 1: do you really know do you really know what makes
Speaker 1: you feel fulfilled, what makes you feel calm, what what
Speaker 1: you truly enjoy And a lot of people need to
Speaker 1: go on that journey of self discovery to get to
Speaker 1: that place that you just said that you're at, like
Speaker 1: being comfortable knowing that you're alone and that's okay because
Speaker 1: you have yourself. I think the one thing I want
Speaker 1: to say about self love is that it's about for me.
Speaker 1: It's about how I treat myself and what I say
Speaker 1: to myself about myself. Because I'm so addicted to negative
Speaker 1: self talk. I'm so addicted to the you. I look fat,
Speaker 1: I look ugly, I look all this that I say
Speaker 1: subconsciously and don't even realize I'm saying to myself. And
Speaker 1: that is something that I do imperfectly on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: but it is when I can do it, it is
Speaker 1: really really beautiful work, really beautiful work. So one other
Speaker 1: thing I want to ask you before my last question,
Speaker 1: and that is the online piece, right, because if you're
Speaker 1: dating at any age, I think I've always told people
Speaker 1: if you want to be in the dating game, you
Speaker 1: have to be on the apps. But I think with
Speaker 1: apps there's so many options, Like it's hard to commit
Speaker 1: to one person when there's another person to swipe away.
Speaker 1: And there's the fatigue of it all, right, of constantly
Speaker 1: swiping because I match with so many men who never
Speaker 1: even message me even though I mrs First, I've been
Speaker 1: doing that for a minute. Is their way to mitigate
Speaker 1: that or navigate that? What? What? Girl? Help? Because it's exhausting. Yes,
Speaker 1: the fatigue can be overwhelming if you don't have a
Speaker 1: process around it, right. So I have my clients actually
Speaker 1: block in the time, like this is how many hours
Speaker 1: I'm going to devote to swiping, and I like to
Speaker 1: have my clients on two apps at a time. I
Speaker 1: find that more than two at a time can be
Speaker 1: a little bit overwhelming to manage all of the communication
Speaker 1: coming in, and less than two doesn't give you the
Speaker 1: best chance at success. Thank you for saying that we
Speaker 1: should be on the apps, because this is a daily
Speaker 1: fight that I have with people who have this fantasy
Speaker 1: of but that's not the story that I want to
Speaker 1: tell my friends. I'm not going I don't see me
Speaker 1: meeting my person on a dating app. And I'm like, well, then,
Speaker 1: how do you see in today's world, especially in a pandemic,
Speaker 1: how do you think it's going to happen. It's just
Speaker 1: the most efficient way for most people to date. And
Speaker 1: I have tons of other strategies which we will not
Speaker 1: have time to get into today of how you can
Speaker 1: meet someone I r L or online, but off of
Speaker 1: the dating app specifically. But the reality is there's so
Speaker 1: much more labor intensive. So you think you're exhausted now
Speaker 1: on the dating apps, honey, let me tell you about
Speaker 1: the other things and then you'll be like running back
Speaker 1: to the dating app, but just to really put some
Speaker 1: framework around it for yourself. So I'm going to do
Speaker 1: this app for a month, and I find that between
Speaker 1: four and six weeks is when the dating app options
Speaker 1: tend to wane, and that's when people start to get
Speaker 1: anxious and frustrated because they feel like, oh, now I've
Speaker 1: done all this work and I'm down to the bottom
Speaker 1: of the barrel. You then cycle in your second app,
Speaker 1: and you pull back on your first app, so it
Speaker 1: always feels like you have a pool of new matches
Speaker 1: and it always feels like something is happening, and then
Speaker 1: you can cycle back to the first one once you've
Speaker 1: done four to six weeks on that other. So usually
Speaker 1: by that time, most of my clients are in relationships
Speaker 1: within three months when they date with this kind of
Speaker 1: clarity and purpose. But if you get to that three
Speaker 1: month point and you're like, I'm just exhausted and I've
Speaker 1: cycled did what Tamona said, I cycled through the apps.
Speaker 1: There's nobody out here. Just take a break, take two
Speaker 1: to four weeks. Take a break. I'm going to work
Speaker 1: on myself. I'm going to get comfortable in my solo hood,
Speaker 1: and then I might think about going back on the
Speaker 1: app in a month and give yourself a time that
Speaker 1: you'll go back to it, because that's the other thing.
Speaker 1: People push the whole thing away and they say, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm too overwhelmed. I'm just not going to do it,
Speaker 1: and then you find yourself six months later going, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, I could have been in a relationship by now,
Speaker 1: I could have been going on dates, but I just
Speaker 1: I got so overwhelmed that I pushed the whole thing away.
Speaker 1: And that's not a place that I want anybody to
Speaker 1: get to. Wow. Wow. So having a really clear process around,
Speaker 1: a plan around the apps can help mitigate some of
Speaker 1: that exhaust and some of that Like, it's very overwhelming
Speaker 1: at times. For sure, I've definitely experienced that myself. Wow,
Speaker 1: demon a girl, you have like given me so much
Speaker 1: to think about and hopefully given so many of our
Speaker 1: listeners out there so much to think about. I like
Speaker 1: to end with this question, what else is true? And
Speaker 1: this question comes from both and this right in a
Speaker 1: world where things can be very, very challenging, I think
Speaker 1: it's been really great to be able to focus on
Speaker 1: what is neutral and positive in my life. So for you,
Speaker 1: right now, at this moment and these these most challenging
Speaker 1: of times, what else is true for you? MM? Hmm. Wow,
Speaker 1: that is such. That is such a good question, And
Speaker 1: I really love this idea of duality, right, that you
Speaker 1: can hold two things that are on the surface opposing
Speaker 1: at the same time. So I would say it is
Speaker 1: true that I appreciating being quarantined with my family and
Speaker 1: at the same time ready for this to end. I
Speaker 1: feel like I've learned so much about my kids and
Speaker 1: my husband and I have really clarified our communication during
Speaker 1: this time, and that has been so valuable, and I
Speaker 1: don't see it ending anytime soon. But I really like
Speaker 1: to look for the silver lining. Yeah, this is the
Speaker 1: most awful thing that is ever going to happen to
Speaker 1: us in our lifetimes, I think for most of us,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be okay. Like when something I don't
Speaker 1: want to have happen happens, I say, where is the
Speaker 1: lesson here? And sometimes it doesn't reveal itself immediately, but
Speaker 1: in time it usually does, and I know that I'm
Speaker 1: the better and the stronger for having gone through it. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Demona Hoffman. That way, it's incredible
Speaker 1: you can find Ammona on her own podcast dates and mates.
Speaker 1: Where else can folks find your Demona I'm on Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: Facebook at Demona Hoffman and also at dates and mates
Speaker 1: dot com and I have some free goodies there for
Speaker 1: your listeners if they go check out the podcast and
Speaker 1: they can get their online dating life in order as well. Amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Demona Hoffman, you are incredible. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Laverne. Demona gave us so very much to
Speaker 1: think about, so many tools, and I think that's all
Speaker 1: really really useful. I think where I'm at now is
Speaker 1: that when I go back out there into dating land,
Speaker 1: into app land, that I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: I do it from a place of worthiness and I
Speaker 1: am worthy of connection and belonging, that I'm worthy of love,
Speaker 1: and that I am lovable, and that I spreads the
Speaker 1: deepest love towards myself, because, as RuPaul reminds us, how
Speaker 1: the hell you go and love somebody else if you
Speaker 1: don't love yourself. So good luck on your search for love.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Laverne Cox Show. If
Speaker 1: you like what you here, please rate, review, subscribe, and
Speaker 1: share with everyone you know. Next week, we'll be talking
Speaker 1: with author and fat activist Virgie Tobar about fat phobia
Speaker 1: and diet culture. You can find me on Instagram and
Speaker 1: Twitter at Laverne Cox and on Facebook at Laverne Cox
Speaker 1: for Real. Until next time, stay in the love. The
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox Show is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.