1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt and 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: i'm then. We are here with our super producer Noel Brown, 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: and most importantly, here with you listening wherever you are 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, which, now that I say it, Matt 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: treeps me out a little. Yeah, they him hear everything 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: you're saying, right, And we don't know what you guys 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: are doing out there. Are you driving a car? We 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: shouldn't get into that. There could be some dark stuff. 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: Are you're dragging a body sized garbage bag behind you? 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: I can only imagine that something like that is happening, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: and we are just somehow manifesting it by even saying, oh, yeah, 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: let's put some positive stuff in two. Did you judge 16 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: us finish running a mile faster than you ever thought 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: you could, or a kilometer faster than you ever thought 18 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: you could. Congratulation on that, congratulations. Are you working out? 19 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: Did you get to that last set? Are you? Are 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: you dozing gently? Maybe maybe drinking booze, maybe having a 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: cup of tea before you. Are you giving your dog 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: the spring slash summer shave right now? Is that what 23 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: you're doing because you needed to have something while you 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: were doing that? Yeah? Yeah. Are you on the way 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: to a job interview that might be your dream job 26 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: or something? Well, hopefully you're not doing that and listening 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: to this. Hopefully you're preparing mentally. Unless this is how 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: you do that. Maybe it is. I don't know, we 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: don't know what the dream job is. But ladies and gentlemen, 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: Matt Nolan, I are here today looking for a little 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: bit of levity here of wanting to be positive, and 32 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, often humor can be a defense mechanism. I 33 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: can't remember which, I can't remember who said it, Matt, 34 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: but you've heard that quotation before that humors tragedy with 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: a scab, you know, our tragedy plus time. Nichol's comedy R. H. 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: Gary Larson had one of my favorite quotes about humor, 37 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: which was the relationship between tragic humor, where he said, uh, 38 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: tragedy is when I cut my finger. Humor is when 39 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: you walk into an open sewer and die. And he 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: was being tongue in cheek. Of course, Gary Larson is 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: an amazing person, and I love the far side. But 42 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: the reason we are, uh, the reason we are looking 43 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: for some of that levity is that, uh we're today 44 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: we're exploring, um, a couple of interrelated subjects that are 45 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: a matter of great debate across the planet. Yes, the 46 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: and in this particular case, there's a lot of history 47 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: and emotion that's bottled up in the sub so um. Yeah, 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: that's why we we want you to be doing something happy. 49 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: Please be doing something happy well, I mean hopefully not 50 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: too happy or not something you can only do once, 51 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: because we don't want to ruin it for you. If 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: you are a few footsteps away from the summit of 53 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: Mount Everest, just turn on some cool mountain climbing music. Yeah. 54 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: If if your wife is going into labor with your 55 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: first child at this moment, take your headphones off right now, 56 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: right Why you're wearing headphones? Come on, that's terrible. Uh Yeah, 57 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: what what we were talking about right now is a 58 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: is an event that occurred a hundred years ago this week, 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: and just to just to um put us in the mindset, 60 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: maybe uh tell a little bit about it as a story. Okay, 61 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: so as near as we can tell in the modern day. 62 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: Around April twenty four, nineteen fifteen, UH, the Ottoman Empire, 63 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: which was already in decline, took action. For a while. 64 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: They had suspected that one of their geopolitical rivals, one 65 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: of their nemesses, Russia, was using the minority group of 66 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: Armenian Christians in the Empire as a clandestined force to 67 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: work against the Ottoman Empire. And so they rounded up intellectuals, 68 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: they rounded up uh, statesman, people of note. And by 69 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: the end of this and this is generally thought when 70 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: it began, by the end of that time, an estimated 71 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: one point five million Armenians living in the area were dead, 72 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: uh in a brutal ways. I mean death, marches, starvation, degradation, 73 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: all the terrible things that could occur. Yeah, there are 74 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: some pretty horrifying images, even on the Wikipedia page of 75 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: all places, if you look this, uh, this event up. 76 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: Now we should say that this, this event again, a 77 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: hundred years later, century later, remains intensely divisive, depending on 78 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: part what part of the world you are in. UM. 79 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: Around twenty maybe more than twenty now countries have officially 80 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: signed on to say that what occurred said genocide. Uh. 81 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: The many major world powers. Turkey, however, does not describe 82 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: this as a genocide, and to look at why what 83 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: what we're finding here is that despite this disagreement, neither 84 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: side denies that hundreds of thousands of people died. It's 85 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: more a conversation about whether this was what could be 86 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: described as a genocide. And interestingly enough, this gives us 87 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: a look at international relations plenty of conspiracies, because both 88 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: sides believe that there is a conspiracy of some sort 89 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: of foot behind the claim here. But before we get 90 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: to all of that today, we need to ask ourselves 91 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: what a genocide actually is. Right. According to Raphael Limken, 92 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: who actually coined the term genocide in nineteen forty four, 93 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: the term comes from the Greek genos or genos, meaning 94 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: race or kind uh and side c I d e, 95 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: which it means death. So literally, when you say genocide, 96 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: you're saying killing a race or tribe, right right, And 97 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: as we as we pointed out in our earlier video 98 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: on this, the term technically the way the way it 99 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: should be constructed would be gentstide g E N t 100 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: I c I d. But now genocide is the word 101 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: we use today to mean this this specific kind of crime. Yeah, 102 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: and it's not the first word that attempted to describe 103 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: this occurrence in the seventeen nineties. Uh, there's a word 104 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: pop populos side, I think, and that originated from the 105 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: French Revolution, the idea of killing an entire or that 106 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: the attempted killing of an entire population. Right. We also 107 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: know that Lincoln arrived at this after after trying a 108 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: couple of different words and ultimately understanding that he had 109 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: to create something that people would know, people would be 110 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: able to recognize instantly that wasn't already with something else. 111 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: And he has he has a profound story because he worked. 112 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: He was born in Poland, a lawyer, and uh, he 113 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: made it his life's work essentially to get this Convention 114 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Uh. 115 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: He he wanted people to h he wanted nations to 116 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: be able to prosecute this as a crime. And this 117 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: is of course, you know, at the close of World 118 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: War two, after the Holocaust, So which which was you know, 119 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: by no means no means whatsoever, the only genocide in 120 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: human history. Right, No, it was just at this point 121 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: someone is actually trying to put a label on it 122 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: that is represented, truly representative how horrifying it is. And 123 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: I do I really like that point of having having 124 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: to create a word to represent this horrific act because 125 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: it's there wasn't one, and you could say massacre, you 126 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: could say all these other words, but it wouldn't truly 127 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: represent trying to wipe out an entire tribe and or 128 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: race or you know, a group of people in that way. Yeah, 129 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that there is there is a 130 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: difference because if we look at the way Lincoln defines it, 131 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: he says, there's and and don't worry, guys, we're not 132 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: going to spend too much time just bogged down in 133 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: the specifics and the semantics. Well, this is interesting to me. 134 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: I hope it's interesting to you. Yeah. Absolutely, And there's 135 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: some of we have to talk about. So Lincoln keeps 136 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: the emphasis of genocide on a group or a kind 137 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: of a people, uh, not necessarily in a nation. And 138 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: there's also intent. That's an important part. We have a 139 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: quotation from him here. It is intended rather to signify 140 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: a coordinate plan of different actions aimed at the destruction 141 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with 142 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. So this means 143 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: that attacking a nation is not really going to be 144 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: genocide automatically. He later clarified even further, I think in 145 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: nineteen forty six this occurs. He said that genocide should 146 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: be known as a conspiracy to exterminate national, religious, or 147 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: racial groups. So well, several of these things can fit 148 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: in a box, but it's not a genocide unless the 149 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: plan is to kill every person in that nation, which 150 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: which which you know, legally separates it from a different 151 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: act of you know, from a conventional act of war. Uh. 152 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: The u N ultimately picked up on this, but they 153 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: have a much more long winded definition, so long of 154 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: course that we refused to We refused to read it 155 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: in our video because we realized we could just throw 156 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: it up on the screen. Um, but we've got the 157 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: quote here. Who wants to take it? You want you 158 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: want to handle, you want me to sure. Genocide is 159 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: defined as any of the following acts committed with intent 160 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, 161 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: or religious group, such as killing members of the group, 162 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, 163 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to 164 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, 165 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group, and 166 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: forcibly transferred children of the group to another group. So 167 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: we see some we see some terrifying examples in these 168 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: definitions already, because we know, you know, the lost generation 169 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: of Aboriginal children in Australia sent away from their families 170 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 1: these different schools in the US, when Native American children 171 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: were sent off to these UH schools to teach them 172 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: to assimilate Rwanda is a good example. Yeah, the Rwanda 173 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: who to UH to see genocide. Uh. We we also 174 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: see that this doesn't necessarily ending a group, does not 175 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: necessarily mean uh bussing everybody to a place and shooting 176 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: them in the head. This could just be a generational 177 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: thing where you know, like their children are no longer 178 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: part of this culture because you could also kill the 179 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: culture as well as people. So with all, with all that, 180 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: that's that's the idea of genocide. And you'll and you'll 181 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: hear people who say you can find things online where 182 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: people say that the Armenian the events in the Ottoman 183 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: Empire at that time. We're not a genocide. They argue 184 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: that there are two different definitions of genocide. There's the 185 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: one that you or I or or null like we 186 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: the common people would recognize, and then there's the more 187 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: nuanced legal version, which hinges upon intent. So with all 188 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: that in mind, what what happened in Armenia? So here 189 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: here's the stuff you really need to know about the 190 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: Armenian Massacre. It's also known as the Armenian Holocaust or 191 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: Med's urn the Armenian genocide, though it's not legally recognized 192 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: as a genocide. UM. The massacre began April nineteen fifteen, 193 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: about a hundred years ago today. We've mentioned that a 194 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: couple of times. UM. It's estimated the deaths, like we said, 195 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: range as high as one point five million, but that 196 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: number varies depending on which side you're talking to, and 197 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: even um in certain historical accounts it maybe, I think 198 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: you said in the video, anywhere from three hundred thousand 199 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: all the way up to one five million. Right, yes, 200 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: And we see there's an argument here about whether there 201 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: is a dearth or a lack of primary sources die 202 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: community evidence. However, we do know that um. Shortly after 203 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifteen events, Uh, this stuff began to appear 204 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: in the news, right, yes, so so the people who 205 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: are actually doing the the killing were Turkish forces at 206 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: the time, the Ottoman Empire. Like you said, the big 207 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: question here is why why did this occur? Why would 208 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: this happen? And you mentioned at the top that there 209 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: was some suspicion within the Ottoman Empire that the let's say, 210 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: the Russian forces were attempting to somehow use this population 211 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: against the empire, and that seems to be where it started, right, 212 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: And to be fair, this is not an impossible things. 213 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: As we had also talked about. Of course, one of 214 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: the one of the comparisons that you can make to 215 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: clandestine groups, because what they're ultimately arguing, the Ottoman Empire 216 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: is arguing here is that Russia was using uh, this 217 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: population or members of this population as a clandestine force 218 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: pretty much terrorist group, right or at the very least espionage, 219 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: and they were therefore a proxy. This is occurring today 220 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: in other countries. You know, Iran has proxies in the 221 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: Middle East, the US as proxies in the Middle East. 222 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia has proxies in the Middle East. There are 223 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: proxies in other countries. Of course, we know that in 224 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: like during the escalation and the occurrence of the Vietnam War, UH, 225 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: the US engaged Laoisian UH groups to to fight and UH, 226 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: that itself could be an entire episode. You're right as possible, 227 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: but it was happening. But I don't think it's possible 228 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: that that number of people, or that large of a 229 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: percentage of a group of people could be working in 230 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: that way. That's I you know, I'm certain that's not possible. Absolutely, 231 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head. Would one point 232 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: five million people be working in it? Even even a 233 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: hundred thousand or maybe Yeah, maybe the idea was more 234 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: that a small group would motivate a I mean, we 235 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: see a lot of coups begin as a move for independence, right, 236 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: catalyst for a movement, right, Yeah, maybe it could be 237 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: something like that. But what But here's the thing. Even 238 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: today the Turkish government says it's not a genocide, there 239 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: was in their very sense of about it. Recently, just recently, 240 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: Pope Francis UM caused a huge uproar when he described 241 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: UH the Armenian events as a genocide UH and did 242 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: so of course, because there is massive concern about people 243 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: of the Christian faith in the in the Middle East 244 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: at this time, right, and this this was a concern 245 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: that Turkey will recall an ambassador away from your country 246 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: if you mentioned this officially, Uh, the the US president. Uh. 247 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: And not to get too political, but these are just 248 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: the facts, folks, whichever side of political ideology you fall on. 249 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: I'm being completely factual when I say that role US 250 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: presidents and political officials have while they are running said 251 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: they are going to call this thing a genocide, to 252 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: use the G word, and then when they are elected 253 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: they never do, or they haven't yet, I guess is 254 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: the most fair way to say it. Uh. But why 255 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: is this so sensitive, Turkey says. Turkey says that, uh, 256 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: this is an attempt to attack their identity and history, 257 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: as I believe the term they use, and and maybe 258 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: that means an attempt to weaken them in the international sphere. 259 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not a hundred percent sure. Maybe there 260 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: would be reparations involved of some sort. Uh. But they 261 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: also say that the facts themselves have been twisted. Both 262 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: sides of the group say that Turkey says it's not 263 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: it cannot be a genocide because the intent is not there, right, 264 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: this is a preservation of the state. Reservation of the state, 265 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: and believing that they're fighting some kind of guerrilla army 266 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: or of some in some way, that's how they're choosing 267 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: to view it, right. And also the argument that the 268 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: numbers of deaths are wildly inflated, that this is maybe 269 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand, not a one point five million, and 270 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: that furthermore, both sides were fighting, and more Muslims died 271 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: than Armenian Christians. And it's strange because, uh, what what 272 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: we're finding is that although everyone on both sides admits 273 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: that horrific events occurred and hundreds of thousands of people died, 274 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: the question here is is hinging on these these small 275 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: differences based on the definition that the u N and 276 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: Limpkin gave. I was thinking about this earlier, and I'd like, 277 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your opinion it, Matt and and 278 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: you to know. So if we're thinking about atrocities that 279 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: occurred in World War two, uh the deployment of nuclear weapons, right, 280 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: first and only time that happened catastrophic, Uh So that 281 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: is still not considered a genocide, right, That's a very 282 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 1: genocide of very specific type of crime. But it's also 283 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: coupled with the internment of Japanese of American citizens of 284 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: Japanese descent. I would be interested in the in what 285 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: the government would put forth as an official statement of 286 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: intent if they were going to be sought UH to 287 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: admit to genocide during those attacks. Yeah, bring it up 288 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: for comparison and perspective. At this point, let's go ahead 289 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: and talk about the UH, the conspiratorial ideas surrounding this UM, 290 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: the whole genocide notion. So we've got one idea which 291 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: the Turkish government says, which is that this is an 292 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: attack on Turkish society essentially. Yeah, and and attarnishing. They 293 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: think it's at tarnishing of their history. Yeah. And you know, 294 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: Turkey is and enormously influential country in that area of 295 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: the world right now, it's swinging above its weight class. 296 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: It's the pivot between Europe and Asia, between the Muslim world, 297 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: well what's often called the Muslim world and what's often 298 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: called the Western world. And it's in many countries opinion, 299 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 1: a good country to be on good terms with, Yes, 300 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: and it has historically been that way that region, at 301 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: least right, the gateway to these So why but why 302 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: would somebody be attacking it? Then? Would they would this 303 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: be a move if there if what they're saying has 304 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: any sand to it, would this be a move to 305 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: weaken their serenity or hedge hedgemonty her perhaps Unfortunately I 306 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: can't answer that. I don't know. I mean, it seems 307 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: like that's what they perceive it to be. Answer politically, Uh, yeah, guys, 308 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: secret reveal here in his other job, Matt is actually 309 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: attache to the local Turkish consulate. You got me. And 310 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: there's another subject here that is uh, it's very sensitive 311 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: to say the least. The country of Israel formed after 312 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: World War Two, right, Uh? And and those are just 313 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: the facts. Uh, still negotiate borders on. The official position 314 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: Israel is that it uh neither denies nor confirms whether 315 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: the Armenian massacres were a genocide. And and for many observers, 316 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 1: of course, that seems to be a strange thing, you know, 317 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: because they experienced at least the um the the worst 318 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: genocide that we I think we can currently cite, unless 319 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: you maybe go back to treatment of Native Americans in 320 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: the United States. You know, that's an interesting question. I'd 321 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: like to I'd like to look back further into that. 322 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: I found some I found some fascinating stuff though, about 323 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: the expansion of Iran and into what I call the stands. 324 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: You know, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, all those Uh. And the only 325 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: other country that officially also denies that this was a 326 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: genocide during the Ottoman Empire's time is Azerbaijan shares a 327 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: border with Iran. So how much of how much of 328 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: these calculations of staying on Turkey's good side are ultimately 329 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: about the seething, invisible proxy war that is consuming the 330 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: Middle East? That that is a great question. It's a 331 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: question that unfortunately I don't know the answer to. But 332 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: what we do know is that, regardless of what sort 333 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: of label people will put on it, at the very minimum, 334 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people died. Civilians died. I'm sure 335 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: there are very many soldiers as well. But you know, children, women, 336 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: the elderly, regular people died, Muslim as well as Christian. 337 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: And uh. This is not the this is not actually 338 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: the first genocide in the twenty century. There there are 339 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: a couple of other arguable genocides. And if human behavior 340 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: is any sort of precedent, more of these sorts of 341 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: events will occur in the future. So unfortunately, Ben, I 342 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: I agree with you, more of this will happen in 343 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: the future. Um. Tis I guess it's what it means 344 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: to be human. There are there are dark places that 345 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: we go to. Um. But yeah, so anyway, all of 346 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: that being said, this, you know, this kind of thing 347 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: I think needs to be at least recognized and remembered 348 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: so that future generations don't forget these terrible things that 349 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: have happened in our past and could happen if we 350 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: are not vigilant um to make them stop. That's why 351 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: I think even giving this this event, this type of 352 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: event in name such as genocide, is so important. Um. 353 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know, it's tough to even talk 354 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: about this kind of subject, I think, right, it reminds 355 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: me of some of the quotations that we always hear 356 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: rephrase before, but somehow rarely followed. Those who do not 357 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: understand the past are doomed to repeat it. But there 358 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: is a little bit of light at the tunnel. Communications 359 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: technology is allowing more people to be more transparent than 360 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: ever before. Right, And if you know, social media gets 361 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: a bad rap and often it deserves that right. But 362 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: the ability to communicate with one another across the globe 363 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: of could be could be something that goes a long 364 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: way towards preventing these kind of things from occurring invisibly. 365 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You can only hope. You 366 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: can only hope. So if you want to learn more, 367 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: head on over to how stuff works dot com and 368 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: check out the article what was the first genocide in 369 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: the twentieth century? And as always, thank you so much 370 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: for listening. For those of you who check out our 371 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: YouTube series, thanks for sharing that and uh talking with 372 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: us in the comments. Actually have to go later. I 373 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: have to go right now and check out some of 374 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: the comments on the gaia hypothesis idea. We just released 375 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: the the concept that Earth itself is one gigantic living 376 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: super organism, which is not spoiler alert regarded as solid 377 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: science by its detractors, but such a inspiring, even beautiful idea. 378 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: So if you would like to suggest something that we 379 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: should cover in the next few episodes, send us a 380 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: note on Facebook, tweet to us where I'm both of 381 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: those is conspiracy stuff h s W. You can also 382 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: check out everything we have ever done on our website 383 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know dot com. And 384 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: if you want to write to us directly, we have 385 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: an email address and we'd love to hear from you. 386 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot com. From 387 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: one on this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot 388 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch 389 00:28:48,600 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff just mes 390 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: to him.