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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just smoking smoking,

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Speaker 2: feel all right? Just keep on choking.

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Speaker 1: And this is Segnestion, uh Boston. Yeah, okay, yep, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I was in my head, I was getting there. I

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Speaker 1: thought you were going to go with smoking in the

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Speaker 1: boys room.

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Speaker 2: No. I always thought that was just kind of a lame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a remake. You know, Motley Crue covered it.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember who did the original, do you?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't remember.

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Speaker 2: You don't need to email in and tell us. That's

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Speaker 2: all right. If we're curious enough, we'll go.

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Speaker 1: Look it up where you can feel free. Okay, who Okay,

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Speaker 1: tell someone not to email now.

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Speaker 2: I do want to know. I'm gonna look while you talk.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you should wait for the email. Maybe

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Speaker 1: the writer of that song.

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Speaker 2: Is listening Brownsville Station.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there you go.

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Speaker 2: I never in a million years would it come with that,

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Speaker 2: because I've never heard those two words together as a

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Speaker 2: band name.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, you've never taken the train there? Then?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of Brownsfield Station.

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Speaker 1: Just when I took a train to Brownsfield Station.

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Speaker 2: That's gross, I think, I know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Oh God, all right, let's get off this and get

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Speaker 1: on something even grosser, which is cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 1: And this was from our pal Julia, and I just

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Speaker 1: sort of I commissioned this one because I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, let's just do one on the cigarette itself,

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Speaker 1: not like smoking, and not the lawsuits and all that

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Speaker 1: stuff or lung cancer, but just on the thing, the object.

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Speaker 1: And Julia sen us an article called the Cigarette Itself,

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Speaker 1: appropriately titled. And I learned a lot in this one,

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Speaker 1: chiefly that the cigarette was born in Spain in the

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Speaker 1: early sixteenth sixteenth century when cigar smokers. Cigars were around,

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Speaker 1: and it was sort of a luxury item for the

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Speaker 1: wealthy at the time because they were you know, hand

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Speaker 1: rolled and imported from Mexico and South America. But when

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Speaker 1: they would you know, stub out that last you know,

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Speaker 1: half inch of a cigar or whatever, people that didn't

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Speaker 1: have as much money would come along grab that thing

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Speaker 1: and take out the tobacco, you know, grind it up

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Speaker 1: and pick it apart a little bit and wrap it

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Speaker 1: in paper and smoke it, and that was a little

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Speaker 1: cigar or a cigaretllo.

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Speaker 2: H isn't that amazing?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I never thought about the word cigarette

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Speaker 1: being a play on cigar. Oh really like a tiny cigar, like,

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Speaker 1: because I always started cigarello. But like a kitchenette, a

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Speaker 1: cigarette is just like the same sort of version of that.

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Speaker 2: Ironically, I never thought of a kitchenette as a small

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Speaker 2: version of a kitchen. Come on, so, chuck, let's just

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Speaker 2: hold our horses here before we go any further into

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Speaker 2: the history. Let's give a few basics about the cigarette.

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Speaker 1: Eight.

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Speaker 2: So they're about eighty four millimeters long a standard cigarette,

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Speaker 2: and for a reference, that's about the length of a cigarette.

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Speaker 2: They're sold in packs of twenty. And if you really

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Speaker 2: want to get technical about a cigarette, next time you're

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Speaker 2: at a party and you're bumming one from somebody or

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Speaker 2: castigating somebody for smoking, even better, you can say that

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Speaker 2: a cigarette is also technically known as a heated tobacco product.

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Speaker 1: That's right. As we'll see a Camel's first started putting

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Speaker 1: them in packs of twenty, and I could not find

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Speaker 1: out if I think they did that to match the

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Speaker 1: number of matches in a matchbook. Which is twenty. Oh really,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's the story.

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Speaker 2: I wish somebody would have told the hot dog makers that,

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Speaker 2: because you know, you got the bug eight or a

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Speaker 2: pack of eight hot dogs and buns of six. I

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Speaker 2: can never keep up these days with witches.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, that just still doesn't make any sense at all.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm pretty sure that they put it in

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Speaker 1: a pack up twenty eventually to match the matches in

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Speaker 1: a matchbook. But that may also be apocryphal.

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Speaker 2: Who knows, it's a good one.

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Speaker 1: What cigarettes are for is to deliver nicotine to your body,

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Speaker 1: which is a feel good chemical that is naturally occurring

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Speaker 1: in tobacco. And the whole point is to with a pipe,

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Speaker 1: cigar or cigarette or anything like that an esig is

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Speaker 1: to get you that nicotine, to get you addicted to it,

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Speaker 1: to eventually kill you from it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy, but that's essentially the point. And I

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Speaker 2: think before the advent of mass produced cigarettes, maybe you

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Speaker 2: had a lesser chance of developing all sorts of hideous

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Speaker 2: cancers and other diseases. But even if that's not true,

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Speaker 2: or even if it is true, it doesn't matter, because

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Speaker 2: we live in the age of mass produced cigarettes, and

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Speaker 2: these things are exquisitely engineered products that so much time

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Speaker 2: and money and effort has gone into, and so much

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Speaker 2: research that most of what we know about cigarettes, what

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Speaker 2: cigarettes due to the human body, how addictive they are,

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Speaker 2: comes from the research the tobacco companies did over the

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Speaker 2: decades that they kept that eventually had to be handed

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Speaker 2: over to the state attorneys general who sued them back

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Speaker 2: in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy how it all panned out. If you're

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Speaker 1: looking at you know, and Julia kind of breaks it

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Speaker 1: down with the white end and the brown end, but

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of cigarettes that are white through and through,

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Speaker 1: meaning the filter end is the same color, but the

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Speaker 1: tobacco end is a filler of cut tobacco leaves. And

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Speaker 1: then plenty of additives. I think how many did they admit?

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Speaker 2: Five hundred and ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they wanted to get to six hundred so bad.

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Speaker 1: But they finally in nineteen ninety four released their additives

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Speaker 1: and it was a list five ninety long, which is

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Speaker 1: crazy to think about it.

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Speaker 2: I think they had six hundred, but some very sharp

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Speaker 2: eyed tobacco lobbyists like, uh, you got arsenic in here twice, so.

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Speaker 1: It says cut tobacco leaves. It's held in a porous

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Speaker 1: wrapped paper that is sealed by an adhesive. And if

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Speaker 1: you'll look closely, there is a printed there's printed information

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Speaker 1: on that paper that you're also smoking and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be burning when you're smoking that tobacco, that paper, those additives,

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Speaker 1: that ink, that adhesive and everything, and the smoke that

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Speaker 1: comes out and these are words I did not know.

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Speaker 1: The smoke that comes just from a burning cigarette sitting

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Speaker 1: there is called side stream smoke. The stuff that you

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Speaker 1: inhale is called mainstream smoke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the mainstream smoke comes out of the filter. You

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Speaker 2: draw through the filter, and the smoke that comes out

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Speaker 2: that's the mainstream smoke. The filters we'll see it does

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Speaker 2: something a little bit here there, but not really. It's

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Speaker 2: essentially to give smokers the illusion that they're preventing some

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Speaker 2: sort of harm to themselves when they actually aren't. Another

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Speaker 2: illusion is that these cigarette butts, which are the most

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Speaker 2: littered item in the entire world. I saw as something

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Speaker 2: like four point one trillion cigarette butts are littered, not

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Speaker 2: thrown away, littered every year around the world. And a

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Speaker 2: common misconception amongst smokers, is that they're biodegradable. They're not.

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Speaker 2: They're photodegradable, not biodegradable, which is a real problem because

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Speaker 2: they kind of well, they litter all over the place

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Speaker 2: and their type of plastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those filters are cellulose acetate, and there are companies

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Speaker 1: that put charcoal in there, but because charcoal is a

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Speaker 1: great filter generally naturally, but there aren't any studies that

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Speaker 1: show that charcoal in a filter helps it all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as far as health outcomes or anything like that. There

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Speaker 1: are two paper wraps on the filter in there's a

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Speaker 1: plug rap around the actual filter, and then there is

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Speaker 1: if it's a brown filter, there's the brown it's called

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Speaker 1: tipping paper around the plug rap, and that is also

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Speaker 1: sealed up so that you know, you don't want that

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Speaker 1: smoke coming out of the side of the filter, right,

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Speaker 1: you want it going into your mouth. And then that

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Speaker 1: filter is also treated. They changed the pH on that

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Speaker 1: filter to purposefully turn it brown as you smoke, so

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Speaker 1: you look and you see, man, look at all that

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Speaker 1: brown stuff that's not getting into my lungs.

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Speaker 2: It fooled me for twenty years up until a couple

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Speaker 2: of days ago. I had no idea that that was

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Speaker 2: the case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just one of the dirty tricks that cigarette manufacturers

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Speaker 1: used and still used.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, nuts. So let's go back to the cigarillo,

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Speaker 2: shall we.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: So the cigarello, I think you said it was the

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Speaker 2: early sixteenth century, so the early fifteen hundreds, right after

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Speaker 2: the Age of Discovery kicked off, right, And it took

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Speaker 2: all the way to the late seventeen hundreds before it

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Speaker 2: really started to spread outward into Italy and Portugal, which

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Speaker 2: are not that far away. So apparently people didn't think

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Speaker 2: that much of the cigarello by then. But as Europe

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Speaker 2: started to go to war with itself, the cigarillo kind

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Speaker 2: of hitchhiked to the fronts and it was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what do you guys think about me? Pretty great?

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Speaker 1: Huh yeah, I mean it's crazy. The rise of the

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Speaker 1: cigarette is tied directly to the various wars over the

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Speaker 1: years and the fact that soldiers wanted to smoke. It was,

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Speaker 1: you know, helped calm their nerves. I think it was

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Speaker 1: as was a comfort piece when you're I bet a

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Speaker 1: cigarette and kids don't ever try it, don't ever even

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Speaker 1: try it. But I bet when you're a war sitting

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Speaker 1: in a foxhole in miserable conditions. I bet that cigarette

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Speaker 1: is one of the few pleasures that comes your way,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I bet that's a great cigarette to smoke.

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Speaker 2: I would think so too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, French and British soldiers discovered them in the

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Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds during the Napoleonic Wars, and this is

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Speaker 1: where the French came up with the word cigarette instead

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Speaker 1: of cigarillo. And the Crimean War around the this century

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Speaker 1: came along a new generation of British and French soldiers

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Speaker 1: this you got these cigarettes with that pretty harsh Turkish tobacco.

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Speaker 1: They said, we love this stuff. They brought it home

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Speaker 1: and there was a tobacconist named Philip Morris that had

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Speaker 1: a shop on Bond Street in eighteen forty seven where

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Speaker 1: he was selling cigars and tobacco products, and he was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start making cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, So Philip Morris, the Philip Morris Company,

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Speaker 2: one of the largest producers of cigarettes in the entire world,

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Speaker 2: is directly related to Philip Morris. It's not just like

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Speaker 2: a like a shout out or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh I never looked that up, but I just assumed

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Speaker 1: that it was eventually became the big company.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it would make sense because a lot of

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Speaker 2: these companies did grow out or were consolidated by larger companies,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the original cigarette companies, so it's entirely possible,

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Speaker 2: for sure. But regardless, he was one of the people

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Speaker 2: who brought it to London and made it kind of

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Speaker 2: like a fancy thing, which is really surprising because Chuck

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Speaker 2: in America it went a totally different way when it

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Speaker 2: really became a thing in the United States. As we'll see,

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Speaker 2: it became associated essentially with juvenile delinquents. At first, it

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Speaker 2: was not a fanancy like a Bond Street type thing

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Speaker 2: to do. It was kids playing craps rather than going

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Speaker 2: to school. Were smoking cigarettes too, yeah, ne'er do wells, Yes,

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Speaker 2: ne'er do wells.

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Speaker 1: So at Philip Morris's Bond Street tobacco store, they started

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Speaker 1: making their own cigarettes. They were not mass produced, obviously,

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Speaker 1: he had people hand rolling, just like they did with cigars,

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Speaker 1: but they were pretty good. They would get out, they

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Speaker 1: would pump out like three or four a minute, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty fast. They were pretty expensive as a result,

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Speaker 1: and a couple of things happened that really made cigarettes,

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Speaker 1: you know, way more wide had spread. One was the

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Speaker 1: invention of a rolling machine, like a machine that could

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Speaker 1: pump out, you know, eventually like two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand a day for a company, and the American cigarette,

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Speaker 1: which used a combination sometimes of Turkish tobacco or sometimes

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Speaker 1: just straight up American tobacco that was a lot less

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Speaker 1: harsh and more palatable for I guess American appetite.

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Speaker 2: Smooth, mild. So yeah, there's a guy named James Duke

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Speaker 2: who was a Durham, North Carolina tobacco air and I

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Speaker 2: think I remember correctly when we went to Durham for

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Speaker 2: our show recently. I think both times they have like

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Speaker 2: a big Duke stencil on a like a smokestack at

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Speaker 2: some place.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's funny, I'm pretty sure. So on smokestack.

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Speaker 2: He created W. Duke, Sons and Company in eighteen eighty

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Speaker 2: three to start making cigarette sorry eighteen eighty one. By

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Speaker 2: eighteen eighty three he was making two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand a day thanks to the invention of James Bonsac,

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Speaker 2: who created that cigarette rolling machine that you mentioned earlier

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Speaker 2: that could roll two hundred cigarettes per minute.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quite an increase from three or four over

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Speaker 1: there on Bond Street. So Duke said, hey, give me

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Speaker 1: a deal. I'll buy a few of those things if

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Speaker 1: you give me a good price on him and yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and he said sure. And he said, all right, I'll

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Speaker 1: use cigarette rollers. You're out of business. And they said no,

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Speaker 1: you can't hire a machine to do work that humans do.

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Speaker 1: And he said, watch me, And so he put these

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Speaker 1: machines in. All of a sudden, they were a lot

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Speaker 1: cheaper to sell, to make, and to sell. They were

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Speaker 1: readily available, and like you said, they were smoother, and

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Speaker 1: they got popular at least with the juveniles. But that

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Speaker 1: would be the first step toward making them a little

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Speaker 1: more mainstream. But it is interesting that they were I

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Speaker 1: think in nineteen hundred and two percent of the market

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Speaker 1: was tobacco market with cigarettes. People were still really into

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Speaker 1: your tobacco at the time and dipping snuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, people love that kind of stuff. So by the

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Speaker 2: eighteen nineties, though, this was enough of the thing that

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Speaker 2: kids were smoking cigarettes that as early as the eighteen

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Speaker 2: nineties states started to pass bands on selling cigarettes to minors.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think I didn't think they cared

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Speaker 1: about children at all back then. Apparently they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't look good these kids walking around smoking like

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Speaker 1: they're seven years old.

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Speaker 2: They're like, what are you doing out of the coal

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Speaker 2: mine right exactly? Uh, do you want to keep going

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Speaker 2: and talk about where the cigarette really broke out in America?

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Speaker 2: Or do you want to take a break first.

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Speaker 1: I think it's break time, buddies.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to take a break, everybody. We just

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Speaker 2: decided not a smoke break, just a break. So, just

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Speaker 2: like in Europe, Chuck War helped cigarettes just blow up.

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Speaker 2: Basically in World War One in particular, brought cigarettes to

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Speaker 2: America by introducing it to American troops. And, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the men fighting World War One and the trenches were like,

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Speaker 2: we need something. Somebody give us something to smoke. And

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Speaker 2: the US government was like, that's fine, but cigars are

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Speaker 2: kind of pricey, and I don't know if you guys

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Speaker 2: have been to a cigar shop lately. We can't really

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Speaker 2: give all of you cigars all the time. What about

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Speaker 2: these cigarettes that are being made that are pretty cheap.

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Speaker 2: And the men in the trenches said, whatever, we just

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Speaker 2: need to smoke something, so very quickly, a steady, never

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Speaker 2: ending stream of packs of cigarettes started being sent to

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Speaker 2: the boys on the front in Europe and also like business, individual, citizens,

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Speaker 2: the government, they were all paying for it. And they

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Speaker 2: just smoked, smoke, smoked out of the trenches in World

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Speaker 2: War One, and when they came back they were like, you, guys,

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Speaker 2: you gotta try these. They're amazing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of perfect for a foxhole

294
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Speaker 1: because it was much quicker than a cigar, Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can smoke a cigar for an hour, and you

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Speaker 1: didn't have that kind of time if you just wanted

297
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Speaker 1: a quick nicotine fix. The cigarette was kind of perfect

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Speaker 1: for wartime. And buddy, did they explode. Camel cigarettes in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen sold about a million packs of cigarettes or

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Speaker 1: is that a million cigarettes?

301
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Speaker 2: A million packs?

302
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Speaker 1: A million packs of cigarettes. In nineteen fourteen they sold

303
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Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty five million packs, and by nineteen

304
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Speaker 1: nineteen they sold twenty one billion packs of cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which not coincidentally was after World War One ended

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Speaker 2: and all of those men fighting in World War One

307
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Speaker 2: came back with pretty healthy little cigarette habits. By then.

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Speaker 1: That's an astounding number and I knew it was going

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00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: to be a lot, but that kind of jump. I mean,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine the kind of money they were making.

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Speaker 2: I know, And that's just Cammebell cigarettes. That's not all cigarettes,

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Speaker 2: that's just one caramel. Yeah. Another thing World War One

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Speaker 2: did was kind of change the United States's view on

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Speaker 2: life and was like, Okay, a lot of people just died,

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Speaker 2: and maybe we should start thinking of life as a

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Speaker 2: little more valuable and precious and relax a little bit

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Speaker 2: and enjoy ourselves. And one of the exactly right one

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Speaker 2: of the upshots of that was that I guess norms

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Speaker 2: and expectations around women really loosened up. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things that women did almost immediately was they started smoking.

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Speaker 2: It became socially acceptable for women to start smoking, and

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Speaker 2: the tobacco companies clapped their hands together and rubbed them

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Speaker 2: and just started drooling at the jowls.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. All of a sudden they were targeting with

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Speaker 1: advertising campaigns about how glamorous it was, how feminine it was,

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Speaker 1: how independent you were if you were a smoker as

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Speaker 1: a woman.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: This is also a very fun fact. Philip Morris. The

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Speaker 1: Marlboro cigarette, which I have always associated with.

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Speaker 2: Like Cowboy killed dude.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a dude cigarette. Cowboy killers that, the Marlboro

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Speaker 1: Man and the famous Sunset Boulevard you know, cut out

334
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Speaker 1: that was there forever and Kramer.

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Speaker 2: Don't forget Kramer was the Marlborough Man for a minute.

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Speaker 1: That's right, he was. But the Marlboro cigarette had such

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00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: hard type of thing hard to say. It was launched

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Speaker 1: as a women's cigarette. It was known as mild As

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Speaker 1: May and I'm not sure when that switch, but that's

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Speaker 1: kind of a fun little fact.

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Speaker 2: I vow to pick up mild as May is a

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Speaker 2: phrase I'm going to start rising.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: A lucky Strike was also like, hey, rather than reaching

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Speaker 2: for a suite, which will eventually disappoint your husband, reach

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Speaker 2: for a lucky strike instead. Just smoke anytime you have

347
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Speaker 2: a chocolate craving.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, and all those accessories that Hey, listen again,

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Speaker 1: kids don't smoke. But I'd be a liar if I

350
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Speaker 1: didn't say. In an old movie, when someone took out

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Speaker 1: one of those little slender cigarette cases and popped out

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Speaker 1: a cigarette from that neat row and tapped it on

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Speaker 1: the outside of that metal case, I don't know. That

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00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: was pretty cool. Looking to young Chuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I recently read Rebecca by Daphne de Maurier. Have

356
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:25,919
Speaker 2: you ever read that?

357
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Speaker 1: No, is it the Rebecca Hitchcock movie Rebecca?

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Speaker 2: I think Hitchcock may have made it. Yeah, and that

359
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 2: tracks because I think it was written in the early thirties.

360
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Speaker 2: Have you seen the movie? Was it about a woman

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Speaker 2: who is basically living in the shadow of her husband's

362
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Speaker 2: first wife. Yeah, so that's the book.

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Speaker 1: But people great undervalued Hitchcock movie.

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Speaker 2: By the way, it's a great book too, But people

365
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 2: bust out cigarette cases like every couple paragraphs in there

366
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 2: and offer cigarette and everyone smokes after tea and all

367
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 2: this stuff, so I you know exactly what you're talking about.

368
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Speaker 2: It just suck out to me. I think I guess

369
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Speaker 2: as a twenty first century person knowing what smoking does,

370
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Speaker 2: looking at people who were living at a time when

371
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 2: they didn't know what smoking did, it's kind of not

372
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 2: funny to see. But it's just bizarre to look back

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I remember in college in Athens, it

375
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: was always one like classy co ed who like carried

376
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Speaker 1: her cigarettes in a case and maybe even had one

377
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 1: of those little cigarette holder extenders or whatever. Oh, yeah, yeah,

378
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: because you know, they were like, hey, look at me,

379
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 1: I'm different, and you know I'm an art major. So

380
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Speaker 1: this is what we did.

381
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Speaker 2: I'm like friggin' Audrey Hepburn here.

382
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Speaker 1: The other thing that happened was they started putting cigarette

383
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Speaker 1: lighters in cars in I think nineteen twenty five nineteen

384
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,639
Speaker 1: twenty six is when they became standard and cars a

385
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: little push button cigarette lighter. So now they're saying, like,

386
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: smoke everywhere.

387
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just so happens. Nineteen twenty five nineteen

388
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 2: twenty six is when the first cars came up basically,

389
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 2: so right out of the gate they had cigarette lighters.

390
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 1: Huh yeah, And right out of the gate. Movie stars

391
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: started smoking on screen, men and women, and started getting deals,

392
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: started getting sponsorship deals with certain cigarette companies.

393
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could get one hundred and fifty grand plus

394
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 2: a year's supply of Lucky Strikes if you're smoking was

395
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 2: sponsored by a Lucky Strike, which I think Joan Crawford, Spencer, Tracy,

396
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 2: Gary Cooper, they all had those deals with Lucky Strikes.

397
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: So they would out in public be smoking Lucky Strikes,

398
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 2: but during the reviews they'd also stop and be like, wow,

399
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 2: this Lucky Strike is so mild, smooth or whatever, like

400
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 2: they would talk about it like as if it were

401
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: you know how people try to place ads or they

402
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: used to, I don't know if they still do in

403
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: podcasts where suddenly we'd just be talking about a product

404
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 2: and it'd take you a second, yeah, to catch up.

405
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: That's what they used to do with Lucky Strikes.

406
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like, they send me a year supply,

407
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: So they sent me one thousand packs of cigarettes.

408
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's nuts. So there's just tons of stars smoking.

409
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 2: They were literally really sponsored by tobacco companies, and even

410
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: if you weren't, you could still be pitching them in

411
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: regular ads. And there's a push today to I think,

412
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 2: retroactively and moving forward, give our ratings to movies that

413
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: have smoking in them, which I hadn't heard of, but

414
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 2: I ran across that recently.

415
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I heard about that much different back then. Obviously,

416
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 1: by the middle of the twentieth century, cigarettes had eighty

417
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 1: one percent of the tobacco market, so people really ditched

418
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: the jaw and the snuff for cigarettes generally speaking, and people,

419
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, pregnant women were smoking. You smoke in the

420
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 1: movie theater, smoking planes on buses in the office. Your

421
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 1: doctor would smoke in front of you during an appointment.

422
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: People reading the news on TV would be smoking while

423
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 2: they were giving you the news.

424
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Speaker 1: It's crazy when you look back at old TV show

425
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: either not just episodes, but like Dick Cabot Show and

426
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: stuff like that, just like everybody was smoking all the time.

427
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they were ads that were doctors recommending

428
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 2: a certain kind of cigarette because they were smoother, they

429
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 2: made you cough less or something like that. Is just

430
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: absolutely crazy. But eventually people started getting hip to the

431
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: idea that these things might kind of be bad for us.

432
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: I think as far back as the seventeen sixties there

433
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 2: was a doctor named John Hill who wrote Cautions against

434
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: the Immoderate Use of Snuff because he'd noticed that people

435
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: who were using snuff tobacco, which is exactly what it

436
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 2: sounds like, powdered tobacco you sniff like it's a bump

437
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 2: of cocaine, that they were He had observed navel nasal

438
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: swellings and excreacences in snuff users and he's like, even

439
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: is that it's I think puffy pussy looks in their noses.

440
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: And he's like, I think those are probably cancerous. And

441
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 2: this is back in the seventeen sixties.

442
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's super early on. In nineteen hundred, they

443
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: finally put like tobacco extract They did like official scientific tests.

444
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: They put tobacco extracts. They applied it to guinea pigs,

445
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 1: of course, and they saw cellular activity associated with cancer development.

446
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: They linked it to cheek cancer as early as nineteen

447
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 1: twenty eight, and then about a decade after that they said,

448
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: you know what, if you smoke, you're not going to

449
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: live as long.

450
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 2: No, And then I think by nineteen fifty they started

451
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: having enough studies that they could do meta analysis essentially

452
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: and say, if you smoke, you have a higher chance

453
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 2: of getting lung cancer than somebody who doesn't smoke. Four

454
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: years after that, the British Medical Journal published a study

455
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: that said that cigarettes were killing doctors in significant numbers too,

456
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 2: and the fact that doctors are now dying from smoking

457
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: cigarettes that kind of got people's attention.

458
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and these were all unfiltered basically up until nineteen fifty.

459
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty, the Winston cigarette was the first one

460
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: to come out as a mass marketed filtered cigarette. And again,

461
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, it helps a little bit. It's not like

462
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: the filter is completely useless, but it's not filtering out.

463
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: It was largely a ruse to say, hey, they're saying

464
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,199
Speaker 1: smoking is bad for you, so now we've added a

465
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: thing to make it safe.

466
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I read that Initially it was an earnest attempt

467
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: to create a healthier, less deadly cigarette. And see they

468
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: were just like, well, we failed at this, but now

469
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: we've basically fooled people into thinking the filters are actually

470
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 2: doing something. We have to keep filters on forever. And yeah,

471
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: it very quickly just became a device rather than something

472
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 2: that actually worked. It can catch some particulate matter, but

473
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: it's doing nothing to the gases in the smoke. They're

474
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: just coming through fully toxic. But again, smokers were like, okay, great,

475
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: we've got that licked. We have filters. Now let's all

476
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 2: go back to smoking as much as we want. Yeah.

477
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: I think by year in nineteen sixty five, forty two

478
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: percent of American adults smoked. In nineteen eighty, it went

479
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: down to thirty three. By ninety five it was down

480
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: to twenty five twenty ten, nineteen percent, and just a

481
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: couple of years ago, in twenty twenty three, eleven percent.

482
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: But that's that's nuts. Like forty close to half of

483
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: American adults in the sixties were smoking.

484
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: Well, it's funny. It's based on old movies and TVs

485
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: and books and stuff like that, or TV shows and books.

486
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: That seems low to me.

487
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like one hundred percent.

488
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does for sure.

489
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: But yeah, I wonder who didn't smoke. Like half the

490
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: people probably just were like, I mean, I'm sure some

491
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 1: people were like, this seems really unhealthy. But some people,

492
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: you know, they make your fingers smell nasty, they make

493
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: your breath gross. That probably had a lot to do.

494
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: I would guess so too. And then also, I mean,

495
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: if back in the twenties they were like, you can

496
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: get my mouth and cheek cancer from it, it's probably

497
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: trickled out to some people more than others, you.

498
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: Know, for sure. So they add the filter. But a

499
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 1: lot of R and D and money was spent because

500
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're adding this barrier between the

501
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: smoker and the smoke, and so they had to invest

502
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: a lot of money into making sure like the draw

503
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: was correct and that you weren't you know, what they

504
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: didn't want was for you to lose any of that

505
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: habit forming nicotine. So they put a lot of dough

506
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: into I guess, like you said, probably earnestly trying to

507
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: reduce some toxins but also make sure that experience stayed

508
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: the same to keep people smoking cigarette.

509
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they spent billions of dollars figuring this out,

510
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 2: because if you're a smoker and you have to, like

511
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: if you have a crushed filter, it makes it hard

512
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: to draw through, and it's essentially a ruined cigarette because

513
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: you don't, like, you don't want to have to have

514
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: to exert any kind of effort in smoking, and if

515
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: you do, it's just it's not worth it. So they

516
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: could not mess with the smoking experience to make it

517
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: as good or better while also preserving all the best

518
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: parts of an unfiltered cigarette. What they essentially came up

519
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: with was to use more porous paper then actually poke

520
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: like little tiny holes in the seam where the tobacco

521
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: comes up against the filter, which is sealed, as you

522
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: talked about, by that tipping paper. But they poked little

523
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: holes in that end of the tipping paper so that

524
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: more outside air could be sucked in and mixed with

525
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: the smoke. So it was a milder smoke. And from

526
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: what I can tell, light cigarettes that's it. They have

527
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: more tiny holes than non light irregular cigarette. That's the

528
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: only difference.

529
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like lighter chemical additives or lesser chemical

530
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: additives and stuff like that.

531
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: But the big tobacco companies are very happy for you

532
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: to walk around thinking that that's what it means. But

533
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: all it means is it just hits you lighter because

534
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: it has more little micro holes in that tipping at

535
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: the end.

536
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Yes, all right, we'll be

537
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: right back right after this. So there are different, you know,

538
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: sizes of cigarettes. If you've ever been a smoker or

539
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: worked in a convenience store or something like I did

540
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: at the Golden Pantry in Athens, Georgia, you learn a

541
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: lot about cigarettes and what kind of people smoke, what

542
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of cigarettes. It's pretty interesting, actually.

543
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I worked at a last chance gas station and

544
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: liquor store and we sold cigarettes for a dollar twenty

545
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: five a pack, which is far and away the cheapest

546
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: cigarettes and all of Athens. So we had a lot

547
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: of people come in there too.

548
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: What was the cheapest brand? Totally? Remember the ones that

549
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: we had.

550
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: I don't remember what they were back then.

551
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: The cheapest cigarettes, and these are the people. This is

552
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: the stuff I always felt the worst about was when

553
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: people were like, I can only afford to buy the

554
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: bare bones swept off the floor tobacco cigarette brand. That

555
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: was just more depressing to me, even in our store.

556
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: They were Bucks.

557
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: I don't remember those at all.

558
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: Had a big antler deer on the front of it,

559
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: and Bucks were really cheap compared to the other one.

560
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: So I can't imagine what was in those.

561
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: That sounds very scary.

562
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: But there are different links, different kinds of filters. I

563
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 1: remember the parliaments had the recess s filter occasionally when

564
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: I had cigarettes here and there in New Jersey. That's

565
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people smoke parliaments. You can have those

566
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: long one twenties they're called extra longs and different diameters,

567
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: including something I tried in college occasionally. It was the

568
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: old camel wide.

569
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot about those.

570
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: Remember those plugs?

571
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: Yep? I went the opposite direction. I smoked Capri Ultra

572
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: slim one twenties for a little while. Are you serious?

573
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: They were essentially as big around as like a popsicle

574
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: or a sucker stick.

575
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh yeah. I remember my friend Justin's mother smoked those,

576
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: and I had never saw anyone that wasn't a mom

577
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: smoke use.

578
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I took a lot of crap back in the

579
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: day because I would smoke those. I smoked Virginia Slims

580
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: for a while.

581
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: That's really funny.

582
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: I don't remember how either of those came to be

583
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: my brand, but I would guess that I started smoking

584
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: Capris because I like the watercolor design on the box.

585
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: That's probably what I first caught my attention.

586
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: You always marched, have marched to the beat of your

587
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: own drum, so I could see Ess Clark doing that

588
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: just to be different.

589
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we're good though. I liked them. I wait,

590
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: let me rephrace that. Kids. Kids, please don't listen to

591
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: any kind of nostalgic tone in anything I'm saying, because

592
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: if I could go back and do it again, I never, ever,

593
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: sure ever was smoked. Quitting smoking was the single hardest

594
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: thing I've ever done in my entire life far. It

595
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: is definitely not worth it.

596
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I was the dreaded social smoker who all

597
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: my smoker friends hated because I could always take it

598
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: or leave it. Oh yeah, it never got it, It

599
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 1: never got its hooks to me. As as far as

600
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: an addiction.

601
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: I just that just did not compute with me. But

602
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: I was always in awe of people like you.

603
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was the one who would bum the cigarettes

604
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: off my smoker friends, and they're always nice about it.

605
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: I was not the guy at the party who let

606
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: the filter it in because I had too much to drink.

607
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: I was the guy who would smoke with the flu.

608
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: Or the guy that if you if the cigarette broke

609
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: the tobacco and broke a little bit, you would hold

610
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: your finger around that part just so you can still

611
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 1: not waste that, sire. But again, we're not waxing nostalgic everybody.

612
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 2: So where are we, Chuck? Oh, we were talking about

613
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 2: some innovations at the time.

614
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: I guess, uh, yeah, I mean one innovation, and by

615
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: innovation we means terrible things cigarette companies did to make

616
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: them worse and more addictive. Basically, so like innovation for

617
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: them was what's called puffed or expanded tobacco. And that's

618
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: when they soak tobacco leaves in ammonia and free on

619
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: to make them puff out and increase their volume. They

620
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: swell up some and then they freeze dry that and

621
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: they do that so then get more cigarettes out of

622
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: less of a tobacco purchase or hardvest.

623
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a space filler. And yeah, from what

624
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: I saw free on, they only use that only for

625
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: about thirty years. That just continue a couple decades ago.

626
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: But ammonia is still very very much an ingredient in cigarettes.

627
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: One of the big things ammonia does is it allows

628
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: you to absorb free based nicotine more easily, so you

629
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: get more nicotine out of each puff of cigarette, which

630
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: a lot of observers point to is clear evidence that

631
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: tobacco companies went out of their way to make their

632
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: products more addictive.

633
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Also we should mention while we were

634
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: kind of talking about what kinds of people smoke what cigarettes,

635
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: and if you work at a convenience story, you kind

636
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,439
Speaker 1: of see repeated patterns. It's clear if you've ever sold

637
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: cigarettes that African Americans tend to prefer menthol cigarettes. I

638
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: think more than eighty five percent of black smokers smoke menthols.

639
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: And once again, the tobacco companies found this out kind

640
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: of during the Civil rights movement, and they're like, hey,

641
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: we found a new target demographic of people that we

642
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: can try and kill and market to.

643
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because about the same time as the civil rights

644
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: movement was just barely starting and the black press became

645
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: an actual viable outlet for national brands to advertise in

646
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, Menthol cigarettes became a thing. Salem, Newport, Cool,

647
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: Alpine all came out within a year or two of

648
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 2: each other. Alpine's not around anymore. And so just by

649
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 2: essentially I guess, targeted happenstance, the tobacco companies started heavily

650
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: advertising ment in the black press, and so that eventually

651
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 2: came to be the favorite kind of cigarette among black

652
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: people in America. And I read an article by a

653
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: guy named Alan Blum, who is the director of the

654
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: Center for the Study of Tobacco and Society, and he

655
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 2: kicked out an estimate that about a third of the

656
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: ads in some issues of Ebony and Jet magazines, black

657
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: oriented national magazines in the US were for tobacco products,

658
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: mostly cigarettes, mostly menthol cigarettes.

659
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's crazy. A third. And then

660
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety, some people say, like peak targeted advertising

661
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: and branding came when R. J. Reynolds was going to

662
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: release their Uptown menthol cigarette, the first cigarette made like

663
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: specifically targeted toward Black Americans. They did a bunch of

664
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: market research and Rjr. Was like, Hey, you know what

665
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: they'll really like is this classy black and gold package

666
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 1: and the name Uptown Cigarettes. They were the only cigarettes

667
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: with had the filters down in the pack because the

668
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: company found through research that black smokers open packs from

669
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: the bottom so they could grab the tobacco in to

670
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,479
Speaker 1: avoid crushing that filter and order to keep their fingers

671
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 1: for being on it because that's the part that went

672
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: into their mouth. So they literally flipped how they packaged

673
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: cigarettes to appeal to black customers.

674
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and this did not land well with people in

675
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: the United States. There happened to be a black Health

676
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: and Human Services Secretary at the time named Lewis Sullivan,

677
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: and he buck tradition and directly targeted Uptown Cigarettes and RJ.

678
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: Reynolds has basically a vile product that needed to be

679
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: removed from the shelves. It hadn't been released yet. Their

680
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: release was targeted for February of nineteen ninety, not coincidentally

681
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: Black History Month, and enough of a protest erupted in

682
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: the US led by Lewis Sullivan that R. J. Reynolds

683
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: withdrew it before they could ever roll a mountain and

684
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 2: sell up town cigarettes.

685
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: Hurrah for them.

686
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: But the upshot of this is is that, like you said,

687
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 2: eighty five percent of black smokers smoke menthols, and because

688
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 2: of the apparent feeling of menthols, it feels nothing like

689
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 2: you're killing yourself. In fact, it almost feels refreshing. In

690
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: some cases, the black press relying so much on tobacco

691
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: advertising that they didn't tend to cover the dangers of smoking.

692
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: Mainstream press heavily targeted advertising in black communities. By nineteen ninety,

693
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 2: black Americans had a fifty eight percent higher rate of

694
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 2: lung cancer than white people, and it still goes on today.

695
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: There's a national ban on flavored cigarettes, but menthol got

696
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: exempted because black led community organizations tend to lobby the

697
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: White House to prevent menthols being taken out of circulation,

698
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 2: because those groups tend to be funded by tobacco companies,

699
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: so essentially they're fronts for the tobacco company lobby. And

700
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: this one twenty twelve study found that nearly forty percent

701
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: of black smokers said they would quit if there weren't

702
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 2: menthols any longer. So the tobacco companies have a lot

703
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: to lose and half of an entire market if menthols

704
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: are done away with, Like all the other flavors, it's

705
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: the only flavor still allowed in the US.

706
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: Pretty despicable stuff. So you're probably wondering, like, hey, if

707
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: smoking so terrible, surely it started to wane. And I

708
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: gave you some stats earlier, and it has. And that's

709
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: because in the nineteen sixties we started slow rolling a

710
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: little bit more warnings, Surgeon General warnings. On sixty four,

711
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: the Surgeon General released smoking in Health. This is a

712
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: report that basically said, it's the single largest contributor to

713
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: lung cancer in men, it's linked to premature birth, it'll

714
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: increase your risk of a fatal heart attack by seventy percent.

715
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: In sixty five. Just a year later, they started mandating

716
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: warning labels on packs. In nineteen seventy they said you

717
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: can't advertise on TV and radio, even though in print

718
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: you still could. And then in nineteen seventy two, finally

719
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: the Surgeon General said, and this was really the beginning

720
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: of the change of how they were reviewed, and like

721
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: public smoking in seventy two, they said involuntary smoking, which

722
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: is a second hand smoke, it's also really bad for you.

723
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: We're just gonna leave it there. And fourteen years later,

724
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties, they said it can actually give

725
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: you lung cancer. Like you cannot smoke at all and

726
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: be around smokers and get lung cancer.

727
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that happened to Screech from Saved by the Bell.

728
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 2: Dustin Diamond died of lung cancer and he never smoked

729
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: a cigarette in his life. Apparently he attributed it to

730
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: staying in cheap hotels where you could smoke.

731
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: Still, Oh interesting. I mean I remember my parents never

732
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: smoked or anything. But I remember having friends whose parents

733
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: smoked in the car with the windows rolled up.

734
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 2: Yeah that's nuts. I lived in college with a guy

735
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: who did that. I was just I, even as a smoker,

736
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: I was like, this is wrong. There's something really wrong with.

737
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: Yes, oh got in the car, like, good luck selling them.

738
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, also your kids in the back seat, Like

739
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 2: that was definitely a thing.

740
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, well, the other thing we should mention

741
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 1: that I never really thought about until this is that

742
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: smoke is in even going through a filter. So what

743
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: little work the filter is doing that side stream smoke

744
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 1: is just going right into your lung.

745
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even your exhaled smoke contains a lot of

746
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: toxins that are just getting right back out that are

747
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 2: part of secondhand smoke too, So yes, yeah, for sure,

748
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 2: it definitely changed the calculus of how people viewed smoking.

749
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 2: It wasn't like you're killing yourself thing anymore. It was

750
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: a you're killing all of us thing now, and that

751
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: definitely to bands in restaurants, movie theaters all over the place.

752
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: I remember I was, I think I've said before, I

753
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: was one of the last smokers on an international flight. Yeah,

754
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: in the nineties, on the way to the Netherlands. That

755
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: just seems bizarre to me now too, that especially that

756
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: it was that recent. But finally America came around and

757
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: was like, you can't smoke indoors anymore in public places.

758
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 2: And another thing simultaneously was people started banning smoking in

759
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: their own homes. That was simultaneous to government mandated smoking

760
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: bands in public places. People were making that choice as well,

761
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: So smokers were getting pushed further and further out of

762
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: the mainstream essentially.

763
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, like literally outside, like you had to start telling

764
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: people like I'm sorry, there's a non smoking house. Yeah.

765
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: The idea of somebody walking into my house and lighting

766
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: up a cigarette is so bizarre sounding, like it seems

767
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: like a hundred years ago that people were doing that,

768
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: but we lived through it, Like I remember all that.

769
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh for sure, I had a house that we

770
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: smoked him and it was It's crazy how much things

771
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: have changed in just a couple of decades. Yeah, because

772
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: now if somebody did that, it's like a hostile act,

773
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: like they're just slapping you in the face like they

774
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: mean to be starting something. As Michael Jackson said.

775
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to screw up your house right now.

776
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you can do about it?

777
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna smoke next to your cat or.

778
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: Cat, although I'll bet cats smoke if they could.

779
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: That's true. You're probably right. The other thing that came

780
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: in the early nineties when everyone said, when the all

781
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: the health experts said, hey, you know, you need to

782
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: quit smoking if you want to live, is all of

783
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: a sudden, there were nicotine patches and nicorette gum and

784
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: stuff like that, all kinds of quitting aids that hit

785
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: the market that were also big money.

786
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, something else I found and that stuff worked, and

787
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,760
Speaker 2: what also worked. I really wanted to do an episode

788
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: just on this was that big tobacco settlement among the

789
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: state's attorney's in the US that just, yeah, we should

790
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: crippled the tobacco industry and really helped lead to its

791
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: downfall because they had to keep handing over all these

792
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 2: documents they had that were so damning, and then the

793
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: press would just run story after story about this stuff,

794
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: and it really turned a lot of people off on tobacco.

795
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: But I remember when vaping started to be a thing,

796
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: and I was like, no, how did this happen? Like

797
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: we like the anti tobacco forces won. They won, They

798
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: beat big tobacco. One of the most powerful groups in

799
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 2: the world got beaten by the people who were like, no,

800
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: we shouldn't be smoking. And then vaping came along. So

801
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 2: Julia turned up the statistic that I found very heartening.

802
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: She said that in twenty nineteen, twenty eight percent of

803
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: high school students in the US vape cigarettes. Essentially three

804
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 2: years later it was ten percent. So it was that's great, Yeah,

805
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 2: cut by two thirds. So I attribute that almost exclusively

806
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 2: to our vaping app where we really came out against it.

807
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: Either way, whether that had anything to do with it

808
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: or not. I was really happy to see that.

809
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: I think gen Z has been known so far for

810
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: avoiding some of the trappings of these vices of previous generations.

811
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: I've read that they're smoking less and they're drinking less,

812
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: and that's great. They seem to be a little smarter.

813
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: There's another stat here that I thought was pretty interesting

814
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: was when I was talking about percentage of smokers. In

815
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, forty two percent smoked. In nineteen eighty

816
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: it was thirty three percent. But there were more cigarettes

817
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: sold in the early eighties. In nineteen sixty five, at

818
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: forty two percent smoking, they sold five hundred and twenty

819
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: one billion cigarettes. That dropped to thirty three percent of

820
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: the population smoking, but they sold six hundred and thirty

821
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: seven billions, so fewer people seemingly smoking more cigarettes.

822
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: I would guess that in that interim the tobacco companies

823
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: figured out out how to make their product more addictive.

824
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: Then that's when it would have happened. That'd be my guess.

825
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably so.

826
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 2: Well. I can't wait to tee off on that tobacco

827
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: settlement episode whenever we do it. But this is this

828
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: is a good one. I thought this was a good idea, Chuck,

829
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: I'm glad you selected it.

830
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: Thanks. I mean, they're not hurting. Twenty twenty three, Philip

831
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 1: Morris raked in thirty five almost thirty six billion dollars.

832
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: So they're doing okay. And people in different countries is different.

833
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: I think Americans smoke less. I mean when I've traveled

834
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 1: through Europe, a lot of people smoke. I know in

835
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: Asian countries there's a lot of smoking.

836
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah, right after I quit, when we

837
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 2: went to Japan and it was they smoked. They smoked

838
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: during a funeral. Yeah, and I was sitting there like,

839
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: I want one of those so bad.

840
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. When we were in Vegas collecting our Lifetime Achievement

841
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: and word a couple of years ago. Yes, I went

842
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: to a dinner at a really nice Chinese restaurant in

843
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: one of the casinos. Unfortunately it was a smoking casino.

844
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: And you know, the restaurants aren't like walled off, it's

845
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: just kind of part of the casino. There was a

846
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:11,880
Speaker 1: group of young Japanese men, probably in their late teens

847
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: to early twenties, like thirteen of them standing just on

848
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: the other side of where our table was, and just

849
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: chain smoking wow, over and over and over to the

850
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 1: point where I was like, man, this is legitimately ruined

851
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: this awesome meal.

852
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sucks it definitely. Can he can just one

853
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: person smoking can ruin the meil? I can't imagine thirteen.

854
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, but oh boy, they were loving them. They were

855
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: pretty happy smoking those cigarettes.

856
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: You got anything else?

857
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: I got nothing else?

858
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: All right, Well that's it for cigarettes, everybody, Thanks for listening.

859
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: And since I said thanks for listening, and Chuck's got

860
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 2: nothing else, you put those two together and we've just

861
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: unlocked the listener.

862
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: Mail correction for Josh during our Boy listener Mail, a

863
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: couple of this isn't a big one. Hey, guys, long

864
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,479
Speaker 1: time listener, first time writer. Reference to the listener mail

865
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: and the USAID episode, Josh mentioned redtail Or Redhawk beer

866
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: and said it was from Adesto, but the beer is Mendocino.

867
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember.

868
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: Now, given the seminary and those names as easy to

869
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: confuse these very different California towns, I can personally confirm

870
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: Mendocino Brewing Company was and now still is a great brewery.

871
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Speaker 1: They seized operation in twenty eighteen, but were purchased and

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Speaker 1: are now back in production. And hop Land, which is

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Speaker 1: in Mendocino County. Thanks for everything you do. You guys.

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Speaker 1: That's from Devon in California.

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Speaker 2: Very nice, Devin, Thank you for that. And yeah, it's

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00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: still a good beer even if it is from Mendocino

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Speaker 2: rather than my Desto.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we just want to shout out the right town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but thank you for being gentle. I appreciate it

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Speaker 2: and not calling me a dipstick or anything.

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Speaker 1: No, that's not dipstick. Cordy.

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Speaker 2: Who was it again? I know I just said their name.

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Speaker 1: That's Devon, Devin.

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Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Devin. If you want to be like Devon,

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Speaker 2: you can send us an email to send it off

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Speaker 2: to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.