WEBVTT - Chisme: Intergenerational Bonding Over Gossip 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:09.640 Dear let you know USA listener. 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.600 Before we start, you should know that if you want 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:17.400 to listen to this episode, add free just join and 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.120 you can join for as little as seven dollars a month. 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.279 Joining also gets you behind the scenes access and yes, 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.080 some cheesemay. So click the link in the episode description 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.080 and after you do that, then click play. 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:33.320 Let's go to the show. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.240 Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, misan Halita's cheesebabe. 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.760 I hope you're ready and rested for your next assignment. 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.360 Of course, we were literally born ready for this. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.280 Well that's good to know, because I think this Cheesemay 0:00:58.360 --> 0:00:59.680 conversation is going to take. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.520 Us on a wild cry. 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:05.800 All right, Miss Gueida's Elisa and Monica, you are the 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.640 angels of cheeseme a la Charlie's Angels. 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.360 Now, off you go, my little angels of cheese May. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.160 From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. I'm marieo Hosa. 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:27.000 Today Cheese Me a month's long investigation into the ancestral 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:31.320 language of gossom, why we love cheese May, why we're 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.679 ashamed of it, and why we won't stop making cheese 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:41.880 May anyway. Now we're gonna go on an exploration of 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:46.160 an ancient language that is actually very familiar to many 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.960 of you. Cheese Me producers Monica Morales Garcia and Elisa 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.960 Mayena dug up the history of cheeseme and found an 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.080 essential part of their identities. Here's the story which we 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.080 originally brought to you in twenty twenty two. And Esa 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:08.240 heads up, there's some explicit language in this episode. So 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.760 I'm here speaking with our Latino USA fellows, Elisa Bayena 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.240 and Monica Moreles Garcia, and I think I have a 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.680 pretty good idea as to why you brought me here today. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.000 I think it has to do with it. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:22.960 Jeez me, how did you know? 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.000 Well, it's the only thing that you girls have been 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.679 talking about, is it? Cheees Me? 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.359 Well, it all started seven months ago on our first 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:36.320 day as Latina USA fellows. It was after our first 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:40.080 team meeting, and because we're working remotely, I'm in southern California, 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.320 Elisa is in Miami. We jumped on a Google meet 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.000 and almost immediately we began cheese manimal, or how we 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:48.320 say in English gossiping. 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.600 We realized that we were kindred spirits and we immediately 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.120 felt comfortable with each other because we felt like we 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:57.120 were taking a risk. 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.080 A risk you mean by talking to each other. 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:04.560 Yes, a risk to talk about Souda. What else? 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:04.959 Oh? 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.760 Because it was clearly a cheese man, Okay, I mean. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.600 It's just something that we fell into without even trying. 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.920 So there we are, We're feeling bonded, we're feeling connected, 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:17.800 and then. 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:19.160 I started to feel guilty. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.840 I think it has something to do with the fact 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.720 that I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.760 for fourteen years, so I was taught from a very 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:32.799 early age that gossip is harmful. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.320 And a moral But I still did it all the time. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.360 Elisa Maria, Can I be brave yet controversial? 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:41.280 Obviously? 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.440 Okay, I didn't. 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.040 Feel that guilty. Chease me on the about our coworkers. Oh, 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:52.080 we didn't say anything bad about them. With some context, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.680 I was a cousin in the family that had a 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.480 bunch of cheese may and me being me, I've always 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.160 handled those situations by doubling down. So if someone was 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.440 trying to make some judgment and was like, I know, 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.720 you moved out to be with your boyfriend, I would 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.800 be like, yeah, and a girlfriend too, Like if they 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.200 wanted the sun level, I was going to give it. 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:13.400 To that. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:18.640 So, Maria, what is your relationship to cheesse me. 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.480 I think, like you, I kind of love it chees me. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:26.200 I have very specific memories about sitting with my mom 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.760 in the back of our green station wagon with all 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:34.719 six of us driving to Mexico every year from Chicago 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.040 in the middle of winter, and the closer we got 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.359 to Mexico, the closer it was going to be the 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.400 moment when we could say buen o, mamma, ill chees me. 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:49.000 And so it became a way of like really embodying 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.480 my mexicanness, you know, because I was growing up as 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:53.680 a kid in Chicago and it was a way that 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.320 I was bonding with my mom. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:59.480 Hmm. What I'm hearing is that cheese me is a 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.280 little bit more complicated than we realize it is. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.840 I think cheese may is complicated. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.880 Even though cheeseman, though comes so naturally to us, we've 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.800 actually been struggling to define cheese may. So we wanted 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.640 to ask you, Mariya, how would you define cheese may. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.240 Well if you had to translate it the simplest ways 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:23.080 to say, it's gossip. But there's something about cheesemay which 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:28.920 is about storytelling. It's something that is very present in 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.920 our reality as Latinos and Latinas in the United States, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:33.640 and I think that's the way we're looking at it, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.159 or at least that's the way I think you're. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.600 Going to be looking at it in this conversation. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.839 Wow, you've literally read our minds. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.160 I mean, it's hard to define because cheese may can 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.000 mean different things to different people in different contexts. But 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.840 if we're thinking about cheese may on a very basic level, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.160 it's talking about someone in their absence. So you're sharing 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.719 information that you don't necessarily know to be true. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.880 But the tea is just too hot free to not 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:04.000 spill immediately. 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.719 In that first conversation we had, we were already asking 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:09.320 all those questions, is it good? 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:10.000 Is it bad? 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.320 How can it be so fun when it's so bad? 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.000 And is cheese me the same as rumor? 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:21.680 We could already feel that as Latina's gossip isn't just gossip, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.599 it's an identity, it's a way of life. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.960 Well, to get some answers to some of our questions, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.520 we need hardcore data. So in the name of Cheesema science, 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.039 we're conducting an experiment where we create achiemy and see 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.240 how far it'll spread a cheese may about. 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:44.400 You, Mania me O, Maria was in the DR for 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.600 so long because she was filming a movie with Linn 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.200 Men Mel Miranda, and she's going to be the next star, 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.920 like a sexy movie Hustlers or something. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:59.240 What I thought you were gonna say was Maria was 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:01.640 in the Dominican Republic so long. We think she just 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:08.880 had a baby. Okay, Well, I want to hear the 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:09.520 other ideas. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.440 We didn't have any other ideas. 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:14.960 Those were all of our ideas. 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.720 But I think I have something, Madia. So you know 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:24.640 how you have this big, bouncy, voluminous hair. 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.640 Yes, it's all about the hair and the hoops. 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.400 Yes, so if we see it, it's always done up. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.360 But if we don't see it, it's always wrapped up 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:38.920 in a turmine. So how about we make people believe 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.760 that your big bouncy locks actually don't belong to you. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.640 It's not your real hair. It's a wig. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:47.880 You know. 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.640 I have my tricks as to how I make it voluminous, 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.160 but I could see how that could potentially work. 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:53.720 Mm hmm. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.400 So this is what we're gonna do. Since we have 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.360 more questions and answers, I think we're gonna go on 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.320 a little bit of a cheese macquest, and to do that, 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.480 we're gonna have to speak to some cheesema experts from 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.440 different fields to find out why cheese met is so 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.480 central to our lives as a latinas. 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.320 And finally, we're gonna get a little bit sneaky and 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.640 talk to the team to see if this wig cheese 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:20.680 met lights up. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:26.640 Like Firela when Monica, So, you have your assignment. You've 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.840 pried a lot out of me regarding cheesemas so far, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.319 and I'm very intrigada. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.040 I'm using the cheese my voice. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.560 I'm very intrigued about what you're gonna come up with 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.720 in your journey into a cheese me. So off you 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.120 go and I'll see you on the other side, Mama. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.680 When we first set off on our cheese mac quest, 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.959 Monica and I realize that we had something else in common. 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.960 We're both huge fans of The Real Housewives. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:01.120 Gus, I've heard that. 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.600 And soone did this table has been talking about how 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:06.120 her bead you didn't come as a friend at all. 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:07.200 You're done. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.440 So It's a reality TV franchise on Bravo that follows 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.840 the everyday lives of wealthy women from different areas, So 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:20.880 think lots of dinner parties, workout classes, international vacations, shopping 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.959 trips obviously, but of course they look really good and 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.640 really expensive, very expensive. 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.840 And while Lisa and I were watching the new season 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.920 of The Real Housewives of Miami What are you talking about? 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:35.640 On You Know It? 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:37.239 We had an epiphany. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.719 We thought maybe we love housewives because chiefment is everything 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.280 on the show. We realized it's used as a narrative device, 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.520 so it creates storylines and builds so much tension that 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:53.280 a screaming match is the most appropriate form of conflict resolution. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.040 So we set up a conversation with two Real Housewives 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:04.160 of Miami, Marisol Patton and Alexia Chevarria. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.960 So today starring on this show is my best friend 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:13.359 Alexi Cheria Santra Mohito, carrier of the Real Housewives of Miami. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.040 Thank you for that beautiful introduction, And on the other 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:21.320 side we have my best friend Marisol. 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:24.959 We want to set the scene really quick. Marisola is 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.720 laying on her couch like horizontally with a beat face 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.440 and a high pony, and Alexia is sitting in the 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:35.720 living room of her palatial two story penthouse with a 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:36.280 beach view. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.000 There have only been a few latinas across the Real 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.760 Housewives franchise, except on the Real Housewives of Miami, and 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.040 as we were watching the show, it became obvious that 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.160 there were parallels between how Shei's mosas and how housewives 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:56.120 are perceived, as they're scene as tacky, simple minded and flamboyant. 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:57.800 Should I introduce you as. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.880 No know, because the only thing that we are not 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:02.960 is jim Moosa. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.120 I know about that because we live in Miami and 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:12.600 pet Centro exactly I like to call it. We share information, yes, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.920 and when it's amongst us good friends, it's not cheesemay, 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.960 It's just information and we need to be educated. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.040 So do you think that Latina women have a reputation 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.359 of gossiping more than non Latinas. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:28.600 I know they're all terrible, I know, But she's asking 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.000 if you think they have a reputation. 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:30.640 I think yes. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.959 I think we're stereotyped because it comes from history, like from. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.120 Back in the day, more than gring us. 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:36.439 Yea. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.720 At the end of the day, if you're a woman, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.440 you're a chimosa. Oh wait, but there's meg. I know 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:47.400 some men get so much emoso. It's crazy, Like when 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.200 there's a guy that's such amoso, like be careful, like 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:51.320 they're like the worst. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.480 They are the worst. So why do you think that 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.079 cheese may is so addicting? 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.600 I think it's a mindless conversation. It's the easiest conversation 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.920 for anyone to have. You're not talking about politics, religion. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.400 You don't have to be educated to chimyad. Anybody across 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.880 the board can make a comment about somebody else and 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.520 another person will jump in and they get into it, right, 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:15.040 you know, all so white. 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.080 It's so easy because you're not talking. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.079 Or chimiando about yourself. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:19.400 You're doing about somebody else. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:21.640 So it's so easy to talk about somebody you don't 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:22.000 even know. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:23.520 That's why we all do it. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.840 I'm staying quiet. 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.559 Stop saying we all do it like you're waiting for 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:28.400 me to jump in. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:29.000 Haha. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.360 Alexia's family drama was carrying this last season. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.480 Her now husband Todd. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.920 Who she said is the first gringo she's ever kissed, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.720 by the way, had a huge blowout with her son. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.920 What I say that you're a loser, Yeah, but you're 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:47.880 gonna wind up in jail. 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:49.000 Yeah, yeah, you. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.920 Don't get Alexias said herself that this fight was the 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.959 worst moment in her life, and it's out there for 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.960 anyone in the world to watch and form an opinion about. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:01.240 Alexia. 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.480 You've been a reality TV star and a public figure 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.560 for over a decade now. You could say that part 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.880 of your job is to humiliate yourself on TV because 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.840 you're exposing your real life drama as plot points. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:16.840 What was that like this last season? 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.400 For me? It hasn't been humiliating at all. As a 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.280 matter of fact, I think it's been therapeutic and healing 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.080 because these were cheesemads that were always said about me 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.000 and my family. And now I'm like, you know what, guys, 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.440 it's my story, not a chieve man anymore. Like this 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.640 is what it is. This is my time now to 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.319 say it how it is and share it with the 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.720 world and hopefully me being an inspiration for people not 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:40.960 to be ashamed, to be proud of who you are 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.760 and of your life experiences and to. 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:43.440 Learn from them. 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:45.360 And you know what, sometimes you got to put those 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:46.800 cheesements to rest. 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.760 You can't let other people control your achievement. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.400 Right, Alexia, Right exactly, that's your story. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.720 So there's something else we wanted to ask you about. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.840 We wanted it to come to you for some professional advice. 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.600 Yes, oh, because we're the expert chiemosas that you have 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:08.439 to come to us. 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.800 We have a lot of experience in get the demo, 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:11.880 so yes, tell us. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.600 How can we help you? So we started a cheese 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:15.599 may about. 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.280 Our boss that her hair isn't her real hair, it's 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:19.840 a wig. 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:20.560 A wig. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:25.040 That's boring, Feluca, that's not a good one. Why do 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.560 you say she has like a fake leg or something? 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.280 Does she wear a lot of pants? 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:29.800 Well? 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:31.440 Trying to keep their job. 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:32.600 Remember it's their boss. 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.400 Okay, it depends, you know, the achievement depends on who 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.240 the person is. But this is like their boss, so 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.680 they can't be you know, they can't take it overboardon. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.000 I don't know. You got to come up with something 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.120 more exciting than a peluga. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.400 Oh my god, I would never let. 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:46.760 Me tell you something. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.000 The best achievement, I think is when you look someone 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.600 in the eyes and you sound convincing. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.200 Ooh, you sound like an expert Marazol. And then you 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:54.800 didn't want me to call you the g mossa. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.760 I just play one on TV. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.840 Coming up on Latino USA, our cheesemay Angels continued their 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:08.600 investigation into how gossip has shaped their identity as Latinas 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.160 and the steaks surrounding their cheeseme start to build as 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.600 they travel further into a Chice Moosas universe. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:18.760 Stay with us, not the bays. 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.840 Hey, We're back and before the break, producers Monica Morales 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.480 Garcia and Elisa Bayena launched their quest to understand the 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:40.080 significance of cheese ma or gossip what it means for 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.360 the US Latino experience. They started by talking to some 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:50.120 professional cheese mosas the Real Housewives of Miami, but they 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.520 didn't stop there. Here are Monica and Elisa once again 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:54.760 with cheese May. 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:03.440 Monica the Miami Housewife really wanted us to form with 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.080 our cheesemak experiment. 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.880 Fake leg Aside, they did have some interesting points. The 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.840 best cheesemut does require a little bit of work, and 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.320 in order for our cheese me to be convincing, there 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.920 has to be a body of supporting evidence so that 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:18.600 it fits into a larger story. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.840 I think that I know someone who's really good at 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.040 getting straight to the source, and like the housewives, she's 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.080 also paid to chease me out on TV. 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.160 Hi, everybody, I am Lelana Vascas. Formerly I was the 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.920 anchor for E News. I've been in Access Hollywood. I 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.440 spent seven years at The Today Show, and I think 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.760 most people really know me from my years as a 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:44.320 style expert on daytime TV. 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.320 Ooh, so, why is celebrity cheese may such big business? 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:55.880 I think people sometimes forget that these celebrities are true brands, 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.280 and there is a machine that is there to protect 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.800 that brand, and they want to control the narrative. They 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.679 want to really control when a story breaks, how it breaks, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.200 how much you know about that story. And it's not 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.360 just them, the media is also in on it. I've 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.919 gotten a call ten minutes before I'm about to go 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.480 on air that's like, we're killing this story because so 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.640 and so's person called and they don't want to talk 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.240 about it. Or you got this sound bite an interview. 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:26.920 They want it gone, and I'm like, well, I don't 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.760 want it gone. They're like, right, well, we've got to 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.440 play the game. What you're hearing is a water down 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.720 version because you're talking about millions of not billions of 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.000 dollars at stake here. 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.280 So just like there's big tech, there's big cheese meath. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.280 I mean, cheese me is what makes the world go round. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:50.200 So what do you think the relationship between cheeseman and storytelling. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:54.480 Is storytelling is just refined cheese myth. And it kind 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.480 of makes sense that I went into this field because 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.240 I want to know the stories, I want to ask 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:03.359 the questions, and I haven't ability to tell a story live. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:08.040 That is really unique to me, and that is because 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.280 I think I've practiced it for so long in front 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.760 of my cousins at the dinner table, like at the 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.800 Godness Sada at the Quinsignia. And there's a way that 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.480 you tell the tieesement that gets everybody engaged and brings 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.440 everyone into the conversation. And if you are the one 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.399 leading that, there definitely is a performance aspect of that. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.040 No, totally. The delivery is super. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.320 Important because when you're telling it to an audience, you 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.600 want to be gentle, you want to give it pause, 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.240 you want to get the reactions because based on their reactions, 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.800 what's the next part of the story that you're going 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.160 to reveal? And are you going to tease it out? 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:45.520 Are you going to leave them wanting more? Are you 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.160 going to get up, go get a drink of water 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.520 so that they're like, come back, come back. And that's essential, 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.000 you know, as a host, as somebody who works on camera, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.160 to be able to do that, it's a very critical 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.560 skill to have and not everybody can do it. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.880 So we took Leniana's advice and used our best storytelling 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.639 skills to share our little experiment with her. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.240 And like the housewives, she was not impressed. 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:18.160 No girl next level say that she was just vacationing 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.879 at Mara a Lago, not mar A Lago. Oh my god, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:24.439 that's the mic drop. 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:31.560 That's it right there. So it turns out that cheesemak 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.320 can influence anything from the media that we consume to 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:38.080 the products that we buy. And meanwhile there are people getting. 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:39.480 Rich from our thirst for cheese. 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:39.680 Man. 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:43.840 Yeah, I mean, if celebrities are brands, cheese may feeds 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:44.320 the beast. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:48.920 So it's clear that cheesemay can be really influential, and 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.639 maybe it has been that way forever. I feel like 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:56.600 we need to dive into the role of cheesement throughout history. 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.840 My name is Anna Dadriguez Navas. I am an assistiate 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.280 pfessor of Latin American literature and culture at Leola, Chicago, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:06.920 and my most recent book is a book on gossip, 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:07.960 which is why we're here. 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.240 So the tora in your book idle Talk, Deadly Talk. 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.000 You look at how gossip in the Caribbean isn't just 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.920 a tool, it's a weapon. So while it can build communities, 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.560 it can also destabilize them. And something that you also 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.000 get into is a difference between the etymology of gossip 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.760 and cheese may. I'm wondering if you could tell us 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:32.880 a little bit more about that. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.000 So in English we use the word gossip pretty indistinguishably 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:39.160 from the Spanish cheese mate, right, but at its origin 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.000 they're very different. So the word gossip comes from gossip, 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:48.399 which basically means mavrina. So the word gossip is rooted 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:52.359 in kinship, in that kind of chatter or talk between 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.480 god parents. It describes a specific act, whereas cheese may 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.679 for us, in Spanish, the origin of the word is 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:01.280 much more oppositional. It derives they're from the word for 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:06.320 that bug, which is obviously an unpleasant, nasty creature, or 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:10.840 the word for schism, which can mean division, rupture, break. 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.520 This really surprised me because cheese made to me, has 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.399 more of a positive connotation than gossip. Another distinction that 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.080 you make in your book is that the terms gossip 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.960 and rumor are often used interchangeably, but that doesn't mean 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.760 that they're identical. So with rumors, you don't necessarily know 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.400 where they're coming from, and they tend to be more conspiratorial. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.440 But gossip has almost more credibility because it's more personal 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.800 and it's transmitted from one person to the next, so 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.800