1 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Dear let you know USA listener. 2 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 2: Before we start, you should know that if you want 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 2: to listen to this episode, add free just join and 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: you can join for as little as seven dollars a month. 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 2: Joining also gets you behind the scenes access and yes, 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: some cheesemay. So click the link in the episode description 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 2: and after you do that, then click play. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: Let's go to the show. 9 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, misan Halita's cheesebabe. 10 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: I hope you're ready and rested for your next assignment. 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: Of course, we were literally born ready for this. 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: Well that's good to know, because I think this Cheesemay 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: conversation is going to take. 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Us on a wild cry. 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: All right, Miss Gueida's Elisa and Monica, you are the 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: angels of cheeseme a la Charlie's Angels. 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: Now, off you go, my little angels of cheese May. 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. I'm marieo Hosa. 19 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: Today Cheese Me a month's long investigation into the ancestral 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: language of gossom, why we love cheese May, why we're 21 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: ashamed of it, and why we won't stop making cheese 22 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: May anyway. Now we're gonna go on an exploration of 23 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: an ancient language that is actually very familiar to many 24 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: of you. Cheese Me producers Monica Morales Garcia and Elisa 25 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: Mayena dug up the history of cheeseme and found an 26 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: essential part of their identities. Here's the story which we 27 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: originally brought to you in twenty twenty two. And Esa 28 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: heads up, there's some explicit language in this episode. So 29 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: I'm here speaking with our Latino USA fellows, Elisa Bayena 30 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: and Monica Moreles Garcia, and I think I have a 31 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: pretty good idea as to why you brought me here today. 32 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: I think it has to do with it. 33 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 4: Jeez me, how did you know? 34 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Well, it's the only thing that you girls have been 35 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 1: talking about, is it? Cheees Me? 36 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 3: Well, it all started seven months ago on our first 37 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 3: day as Latina USA fellows. It was after our first 38 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 3: team meeting, and because we're working remotely, I'm in southern California, 39 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 3: Elisa is in Miami. We jumped on a Google meet 40 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: and almost immediately we began cheese manimal, or how we 41 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: say in English gossiping. 42 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 5: We realized that we were kindred spirits and we immediately 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 5: felt comfortable with each other because we felt like we 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 5: were taking a risk. 45 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: A risk you mean by talking to each other. 46 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 3: Yes, a risk to talk about Souda. What else? 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: Oh? 48 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: Because it was clearly a cheese man, Okay, I mean. 49 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 5: It's just something that we fell into without even trying. 50 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 5: So there we are, We're feeling bonded, we're feeling connected, 51 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 5: and then. 52 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 4: I started to feel guilty. 53 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 5: I think it has something to do with the fact 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 5: that I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic school 55 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 5: for fourteen years, so I was taught from a very 56 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 5: early age that gossip is harmful. 57 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 4: And a moral But I still did it all the time. 58 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 3: Elisa Maria, Can I be brave yet controversial? 59 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 4: Obviously? 60 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 6: Okay, I didn't. 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 3: Feel that guilty. Chease me on the about our coworkers. Oh, 62 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: we didn't say anything bad about them. With some context, 63 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: I was a cousin in the family that had a 64 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: bunch of cheese may and me being me, I've always 65 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: handled those situations by doubling down. So if someone was 66 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: trying to make some judgment and was like, I know, 67 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: you moved out to be with your boyfriend, I would 68 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 3: be like, yeah, and a girlfriend too, Like if they 69 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: wanted the sun level, I was going to give it. 70 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 7: To that. 71 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 4: So, Maria, what is your relationship to cheesse me. 72 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 2: I think, like you, I kind of love it chees me. 73 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: I have very specific memories about sitting with my mom 74 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: in the back of our green station wagon with all 75 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: six of us driving to Mexico every year from Chicago 76 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: in the middle of winter, and the closer we got 77 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: to Mexico, the closer it was going to be the 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: moment when we could say buen o, mamma, ill chees me. 79 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: And so it became a way of like really embodying 80 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: my mexicanness, you know, because I was growing up as 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: a kid in Chicago and it was a way that 82 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 2: I was bonding with my mom. 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: Hmm. What I'm hearing is that cheese me is a 84 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 3: little bit more complicated than we realize it is. 85 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: I think cheese may is complicated. 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 5: Even though cheeseman, though comes so naturally to us, we've 87 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 5: actually been struggling to define cheese may. So we wanted 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 5: to ask you, Mariya, how would you define cheese may. 89 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: Well if you had to translate it the simplest ways 90 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: to say, it's gossip. But there's something about cheesemay which 91 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: is about storytelling. It's something that is very present in 92 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 2: our reality as Latinos and Latinas in the United States, 93 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 2: and I think that's the way we're looking at it, 94 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: or at least that's the way I think you're. 95 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: Going to be looking at it in this conversation. 96 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: Wow, you've literally read our minds. 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 5: I mean, it's hard to define because cheese may can 98 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 5: mean different things to different people in different contexts. But 99 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 5: if we're thinking about cheese may on a very basic level, 100 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 5: it's talking about someone in their absence. So you're sharing 101 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 5: information that you don't necessarily know to be true. 102 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 4: But the tea is just too hot free to not 103 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 4: spill immediately. 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 3: In that first conversation we had, we were already asking 105 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: all those questions, is it good? 106 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 6: Is it bad? 107 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: How can it be so fun when it's so bad? 108 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 3: And is cheese me the same as rumor? 109 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 5: We could already feel that as Latina's gossip isn't just gossip, 110 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 5: it's an identity, it's a way of life. 111 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 3: Well, to get some answers to some of our questions, 112 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: we need hardcore data. So in the name of Cheesema science, 113 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 3: we're conducting an experiment where we create achiemy and see 114 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: how far it'll spread a cheese may about. 115 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 8: You, Mania me O, Maria was in the DR for 116 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 8: so long because she was filming a movie with Linn 117 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 8: Men Mel Miranda, and she's going to be the next star, 118 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 8: like a sexy movie Hustlers or something. 119 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: What I thought you were gonna say was Maria was 120 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: in the Dominican Republic so long. We think she just 121 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: had a baby. Okay, Well, I want to hear the 122 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 2: other ideas. 123 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: We didn't have any other ideas. 124 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 6: Those were all of our ideas. 125 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 5: But I think I have something, Madia. So you know 126 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 5: how you have this big, bouncy, voluminous hair. 127 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: Yes, it's all about the hair and the hoops. 128 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 5: Yes, so if we see it, it's always done up. 129 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 5: But if we don't see it, it's always wrapped up 130 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 5: in a turmine. So how about we make people believe 131 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 5: that your big bouncy locks actually don't belong to you. 132 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 4: It's not your real hair. It's a wig. 133 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: You know. 134 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: I have my tricks as to how I make it voluminous, 135 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: but I could see how that could potentially work. 136 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 137 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: So this is what we're gonna do. Since we have 138 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 3: more questions and answers, I think we're gonna go on 139 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: a little bit of a cheese macquest, and to do that, 140 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 3: we're gonna have to speak to some cheesema experts from 141 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: different fields to find out why cheese met is so 142 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: central to our lives as a latinas. 143 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 5: And finally, we're gonna get a little bit sneaky and 144 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 5: talk to the team to see if this wig cheese 145 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 5: met lights up. 146 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: Like Firela when Monica, So, you have your assignment. You've 147 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: pried a lot out of me regarding cheesemas so far, 148 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 2: and I'm very intrigada. 149 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: I'm using the cheese my voice. 150 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: I'm very intrigued about what you're gonna come up with 151 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: in your journey into a cheese me. So off you 152 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: go and I'll see you on the other side, Mama. 153 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 5: When we first set off on our cheese mac quest, 154 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 5: Monica and I realize that we had something else in common. 155 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 5: We're both huge fans of The Real Housewives. 156 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 6: Gus, I've heard that. 157 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 9: And soone did this table has been talking about how 158 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 9: her bead you didn't come as a friend at all. 159 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 10: You're done. 160 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 5: So It's a reality TV franchise on Bravo that follows 161 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 5: the everyday lives of wealthy women from different areas, So 162 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 5: think lots of dinner parties, workout classes, international vacations, shopping 163 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 5: trips obviously, but of course they look really good and 164 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 5: really expensive, very expensive. 165 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 3: And while Lisa and I were watching the new season 166 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: of The Real Housewives of Miami What are you talking about? 167 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: On You Know It? 168 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,239 Speaker 4: We had an epiphany. 169 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 5: We thought maybe we love housewives because chiefment is everything 170 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 5: on the show. We realized it's used as a narrative device, 171 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 5: so it creates storylines and builds so much tension that 172 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 5: a screaming match is the most appropriate form of conflict resolution. 173 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: So we set up a conversation with two Real Housewives 174 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 3: of Miami, Marisol Patton and Alexia Chevarria. 175 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 9: So today starring on this show is my best friend 176 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:13,359 Speaker 9: Alexi Cheria Santra Mohito, carrier of the Real Housewives of Miami. 177 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 10: Thank you for that beautiful introduction, And on the other 178 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 10: side we have my best friend Marisol. 179 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 5: We want to set the scene really quick. Marisola is 180 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 5: laying on her couch like horizontally with a beat face 181 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 5: and a high pony, and Alexia is sitting in the 182 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 5: living room of her palatial two story penthouse with a 183 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 5: beach view. 184 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: There have only been a few latinas across the Real 185 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: Housewives franchise, except on the Real Housewives of Miami, and 186 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: as we were watching the show, it became obvious that 187 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: there were parallels between how Shei's mosas and how housewives 188 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: are perceived, as they're scene as tacky, simple minded and flamboyant. 189 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 4: Should I introduce you as. 190 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 6: No know, because the only thing that we are not 191 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 6: is jim Moosa. 192 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 11: I know about that because we live in Miami and 193 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 11: pet Centro exactly I like to call it. We share information, yes, 194 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 11: and when it's amongst us good friends, it's not cheesemay, 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 11: It's just information and we need to be educated. 196 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 5: So do you think that Latina women have a reputation 197 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,359 Speaker 5: of gossiping more than non Latinas. 198 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 10: I know they're all terrible, I know, But she's asking 199 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 10: if you think they have a reputation. 200 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 4: I think yes. 201 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 10: I think we're stereotyped because it comes from history, like from. 202 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 6: Back in the day, more than gring us. 203 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 2: Yea. 204 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 10: At the end of the day, if you're a woman, 205 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 10: you're a chimosa. Oh wait, but there's meg. I know 206 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 10: some men get so much emoso. It's crazy, Like when 207 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 10: there's a guy that's such amoso, like be careful, like 208 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 10: they're like the worst. 209 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: They are the worst. So why do you think that 210 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 3: cheese may is so addicting? 211 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 9: I think it's a mindless conversation. It's the easiest conversation 212 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 9: for anyone to have. You're not talking about politics, religion. 213 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 9: You don't have to be educated to chimyad. Anybody across 214 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 9: the board can make a comment about somebody else and 215 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 9: another person will jump in and they get into it, right, 216 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 9: you know, all so white. 217 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 10: It's so easy because you're not talking. 218 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 4: Or chimiando about yourself. 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 6: You're doing about somebody else. 220 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 10: So it's so easy to talk about somebody you don't 221 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 10: even know. 222 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 4: That's why we all do it. 223 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 6: I'm staying quiet. 224 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 9: Stop saying we all do it like you're waiting for 225 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 9: me to jump in. 226 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 6: Haha. 227 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 5: Alexia's family drama was carrying this last season. 228 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 4: Her now husband Todd. 229 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 5: Who she said is the first gringo she's ever kissed, 230 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 5: by the way, had a huge blowout with her son. 231 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 10: What I say that you're a loser, Yeah, but you're 232 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 10: gonna wind up in jail. 233 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you. 234 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 3: Don't get Alexias said herself that this fight was the 235 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 3: worst moment in her life, and it's out there for 236 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: anyone in the world to watch and form an opinion about. 237 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 4: Alexia. 238 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 5: You've been a reality TV star and a public figure 239 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 5: for over a decade now. You could say that part 240 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 5: of your job is to humiliate yourself on TV because 241 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 5: you're exposing your real life drama as plot points. 242 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 4: What was that like this last season? 243 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 10: For me? It hasn't been humiliating at all. As a 244 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 10: matter of fact, I think it's been therapeutic and healing 245 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 10: because these were cheesemads that were always said about me 246 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 10: and my family. And now I'm like, you know what, guys, 247 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 10: it's my story, not a chieve man anymore. Like this 248 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 10: is what it is. This is my time now to 249 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 10: say it how it is and share it with the 250 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 10: world and hopefully me being an inspiration for people not 251 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 10: to be ashamed, to be proud of who you are 252 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 10: and of your life experiences and to. 253 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 4: Learn from them. 254 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 10: And you know what, sometimes you got to put those 255 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 10: cheesements to rest. 256 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 6: You can't let other people control your achievement. 257 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 9: Right, Alexia, Right exactly, that's your story. 258 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 5: So there's something else we wanted to ask you about. 259 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 5: We wanted it to come to you for some professional advice. 260 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 9: Yes, oh, because we're the expert chiemosas that you have 261 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 9: to come to us. 262 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 10: We have a lot of experience in get the demo, 263 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 10: so yes, tell us. 264 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 4: How can we help you? So we started a cheese 265 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 4: may about. 266 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 3: Our boss that her hair isn't her real hair, it's 267 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 3: a wig. 268 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: A wig. 269 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 9: That's boring, Feluca, that's not a good one. Why do 270 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 9: you say she has like a fake leg or something? 271 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 9: Does she wear a lot of pants? 272 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 7: Well? 273 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 10: Trying to keep their job. 274 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 4: Remember it's their boss. 275 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 10: Okay, it depends, you know, the achievement depends on who 276 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 10: the person is. But this is like their boss, so 277 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 10: they can't be you know, they can't take it overboardon. 278 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 6: I don't know. You got to come up with something 279 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 6: more exciting than a peluga. 280 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I would never let. 281 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 6: Me tell you something. 282 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 9: The best achievement, I think is when you look someone 283 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 9: in the eyes and you sound convincing. 284 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 10: Ooh, you sound like an expert Marazol. And then you 285 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 10: didn't want me to call you the g mossa. 286 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 6: I just play one on TV. 287 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, our cheesemay Angels continued their 288 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 2: investigation into how gossip has shaped their identity as Latinas 289 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: and the steaks surrounding their cheeseme start to build as 290 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: they travel further into a Chice Moosas universe. 291 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: Stay with us, not the bays. 292 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: Hey, We're back and before the break, producers Monica Morales 293 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: Garcia and Elisa Bayena launched their quest to understand the 294 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: significance of cheese ma or gossip what it means for 295 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: the US Latino experience. They started by talking to some 296 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: professional cheese mosas the Real Housewives of Miami, but they 297 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: didn't stop there. Here are Monica and Elisa once again 298 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 2: with cheese May. 299 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 5: Monica the Miami Housewife really wanted us to form with 300 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 5: our cheesemak experiment. 301 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: Fake leg Aside, they did have some interesting points. The 302 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 3: best cheesemut does require a little bit of work, and 303 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 3: in order for our cheese me to be convincing, there 304 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: has to be a body of supporting evidence so that 305 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: it fits into a larger story. 306 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 5: I think that I know someone who's really good at 307 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 5: getting straight to the source, and like the housewives, she's 308 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 5: also paid to chease me out on TV. 309 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 12: Hi, everybody, I am Lelana Vascas. Formerly I was the 310 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 12: anchor for E News. I've been in Access Hollywood. I 311 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 12: spent seven years at The Today Show, and I think 312 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 12: most people really know me from my years as a 313 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 12: style expert on daytime TV. 314 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: Ooh, so, why is celebrity cheese may such big business? 315 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 12: I think people sometimes forget that these celebrities are true brands, 316 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 12: and there is a machine that is there to protect 317 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 12: that brand, and they want to control the narrative. They 318 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 12: want to really control when a story breaks, how it breaks, 319 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 12: how much you know about that story. And it's not 320 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 12: just them, the media is also in on it. I've 321 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 12: gotten a call ten minutes before I'm about to go 322 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 12: on air that's like, we're killing this story because so 323 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 12: and so's person called and they don't want to talk 324 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 12: about it. Or you got this sound bite an interview. 325 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 12: They want it gone, and I'm like, well, I don't 326 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 12: want it gone. They're like, right, well, we've got to 327 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 12: play the game. What you're hearing is a water down 328 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 12: version because you're talking about millions of not billions of 329 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 12: dollars at stake here. 330 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 4: So just like there's big tech, there's big cheese meath. 331 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 12: I mean, cheese me is what makes the world go round. 332 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 3: So what do you think the relationship between cheeseman and storytelling. 333 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 12: Is storytelling is just refined cheese myth. And it kind 334 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 12: of makes sense that I went into this field because 335 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 12: I want to know the stories, I want to ask 336 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 12: the questions, and I haven't ability to tell a story live. 337 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 12: That is really unique to me, and that is because 338 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 12: I think I've practiced it for so long in front 339 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 12: of my cousins at the dinner table, like at the 340 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 12: Godness Sada at the Quinsignia. And there's a way that 341 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 12: you tell the tieesement that gets everybody engaged and brings 342 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 12: everyone into the conversation. And if you are the one 343 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,399 Speaker 12: leading that, there definitely is a performance aspect of that. 344 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 4: No, totally. The delivery is super. 345 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 12: Important because when you're telling it to an audience, you 346 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 12: want to be gentle, you want to give it pause, 347 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 12: you want to get the reactions because based on their reactions, 348 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 12: what's the next part of the story that you're going 349 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 12: to reveal? And are you going to tease it out? 350 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 12: Are you going to leave them wanting more? Are you 351 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 12: going to get up, go get a drink of water 352 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 12: so that they're like, come back, come back. And that's essential, 353 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 12: you know, as a host, as somebody who works on camera, 354 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 12: to be able to do that, it's a very critical 355 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 12: skill to have and not everybody can do it. 356 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 3: So we took Leniana's advice and used our best storytelling 357 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 3: skills to share our little experiment with her. 358 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 4: And like the housewives, she was not impressed. 359 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 12: No girl next level say that she was just vacationing 360 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 12: at Mara a Lago, not mar A Lago. Oh my god, 361 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 12: that's the mic drop. 362 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 3: That's it right there. So it turns out that cheesemak 363 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: can influence anything from the media that we consume to 364 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: the products that we buy. And meanwhile there are people getting. 365 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 4: Rich from our thirst for cheese. 366 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 10: Man. 367 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, if celebrities are brands, cheese may feeds 368 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 5: the beast. 369 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 3: So it's clear that cheesemay can be really influential, and 370 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 3: maybe it has been that way forever. I feel like 371 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 3: we need to dive into the role of cheesement throughout history. 372 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 7: My name is Anna Dadriguez Navas. I am an assistiate 373 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 7: pfessor of Latin American literature and culture at Leola, Chicago, 374 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 7: and my most recent book is a book on gossip, 375 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 7: which is why we're here. 376 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 5: So the tora in your book idle Talk, Deadly Talk. 377 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 5: You look at how gossip in the Caribbean isn't just 378 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 5: a tool, it's a weapon. So while it can build communities, 379 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 5: it can also destabilize them. And something that you also 380 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 5: get into is a difference between the etymology of gossip 381 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 5: and cheese may. I'm wondering if you could tell us 382 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 5: a little bit more about that. 383 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 7: So in English we use the word gossip pretty indistinguishably 384 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 7: from the Spanish cheese mate, right, but at its origin 385 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 7: they're very different. So the word gossip comes from gossip, 386 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 7: which basically means mavrina. So the word gossip is rooted 387 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 7: in kinship, in that kind of chatter or talk between 388 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 7: god parents. It describes a specific act, whereas cheese may 389 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 7: for us, in Spanish, the origin of the word is 390 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 7: much more oppositional. It derives they're from the word for 391 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 7: that bug, which is obviously an unpleasant, nasty creature, or 392 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 7: the word for schism, which can mean division, rupture, break. 393 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 5: This really surprised me because cheese made to me, has 394 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 5: more of a positive connotation than gossip. Another distinction that 395 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 5: you make in your book is that the terms gossip 396 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 5: and rumor are often used interchangeably, but that doesn't mean 397 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 5: that they're identical. So with rumors, you don't necessarily know 398 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 5: where they're coming from, and they tend to be more conspiratorial. 399 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 5: But gossip has almost more credibility because it's more personal 400 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 5: and it's transmitted from one person to the next, so 401 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 5: it's the whole You know, you didn't hear this from me, but. 402 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 7: Yes, exactly. Gossip is very, very, very elastic, and it's 403 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 7: really hard to overstate how different it can be and 404 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 7: how much it changes while still being recognizable as gossip. 405 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: So look, Doda, we've actually been speaking to several professional chizmosas, 406 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: and now that I'm thinking about it, we've only wanted 407 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 3: to talk to women, and we never even bothered to 408 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 3: ask why that was. I'm starting to think that it 409 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: might have something to do with the internalized belief that 410 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 3: we gossip more or Gela Muherres almost mass chizmosis. But 411 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: where does that belief even come from. 412 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 7: Historically, there's been that suggestion that real men quote unquote 413 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 7: don't gossip, So where does that come from? Well, women 414 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 7: were historically excluded from the public sphere. We weren't the 415 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 7: ones writing in newspapers or doing the public speaking, or 416 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 7: attended political meetings. So it's in the private sphere where 417 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 7: we found our voice. But it's also important to recognize 418 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 7: that women were not the only one's gossip. What happens 419 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 7: is that men use their public speech to label women's 420 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 7: private speech as inferior, while ignoring their own private speech 421 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 7: or not acknowledging what they're doing as a form of gossip. 422 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 5: Too interesting, So is that maybe why women have been 423 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 5: told that gossiping is bad and something that we should 424 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 5: feel guilty about doing. 425 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 7: You know, gossip is something that we all do. But 426 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 7: what happens is that when people talk about gossip, it's 427 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 7: not respectable or something that is a terrible thing to do. 428 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 7: It's really what you're seeing as an attempt to police 429 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 7: other people's gossip and to dismiss their voice. 430 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 3: Exactly, And as you explore in your research, this isn't 431 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 3: something new. So throughout history, what has been the relationship 432 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 3: between gossip and power. 433 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 7: Gossip has been historically a brush used by the oppressor 434 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 7: to paint the oppressed. So it's happened with indigenous men 435 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 7: with peasants and farmers with gay people, all of whom 436 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 7: have been talked about as being lazy, good for nothing, 437 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 7: gossip wers. But what is happening in those cases is 438 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 7: that those in power are first excluding those groups from 439 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 7: public discourse and then disqualifying their private discourse as nothing 440 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 7: but gossip. 441 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 4: Oh okay, I see how it is. 442 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 5: So can you give us an example of what that 443 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 5: looks like In Latin America. 444 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 7: Whether it's slavery or colonization or dictatorships, our region has 445 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 7: been marked, unfortunately, by systems of power that don't represent 446 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 7: large sectors of the population, precisely because gossip is illicit 447 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 7: and furtive. It is a way for people to circumvent 448 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 7: those controls. They're able to challenge official versions of events, 449 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 7: to say what they think really happen, and to circulate 450 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 7: important knowledge to preserve their voices and their experiences. 451 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean this is really resonating with me. 452 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 5: In the afternoons, I used to sit in the sala 453 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 5: of my childhood home with my visa weelas and they would, 454 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 5: you know, tell me a lot of stories. There's usually 455 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 5: a lot of cautionary tales, sometimes about men, but also 456 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 5: about government repression in Cuba. So it is affirming to 457 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 5: know that that is also a form of cheese made. 458 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 7: Gossip is a fundamental part of the kind of information 459 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 7: control of repressive political systems, and it sort of works 460 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 7: both ways. It can be extremely beneficial and it can 461 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 7: be extremely repressive. So, for instance, if someone gossip's with 462 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 7: you and tells you, hey, be careful with the neighbor 463 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 7: turns out that he's connected to the authorities, you know 464 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 7: that if you want to be safe, you're not going 465 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 7: to tell anything that might jeopardize you or your family 466 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 7: to this neighbor, right, anything that is against the government. 467 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 5: This reminds me of the comites in Cuba, which are 468 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 5: basically networks of cheese muscles whose job is to snitch 469 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 5: on their neighbors to the government if they see or 470 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 5: hear or suspect of any illegal activity. 471 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 7: Yes, that's a perfect example of that. That's one, and 472 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 7: there are many, and this sadly continues to happen. And 473 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 7: I want to point out that in this example we're 474 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 7: talking about men right all the way. 475 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 6: Yes, all the way. 476 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 3: It's always the man. 477 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 7: Gossip for us in the diaspora, is a really important 478 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 7: way to reclaim stories that are at risk. So, for instance, 479 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 7: if you think about family gossip, it's not just chatter. 480 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 7: It's also a way of preserving something important or reclaiming 481 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 7: lost memories, lost history, of filling out silences. There's a 482 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 7: kind of oral history of the community that is authentic 483 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 7: that emerges from gossip. 484 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: We'll be right back, Yes, hey, we're back. Producers Monica 485 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 2: Morales Garcia and Elisa Bayena have the rest of the story. 486 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 5: Monica, I think I'm having a moment. Oh my God, 487 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 5: tell me. For maybe selfish reasons, my main goal in 488 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 5: this quest has been to demystify Chiese May because obviously 489 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 5: I'm very desperate to drop my guilt. But I think 490 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 5: that it's distracted me from seeing how Cheese May has 491 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 5: actually helped me form and craft my Cuban American identity. 492 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 5: How So, when I think about when I feel the 493 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 5: most Latina, it's when I'm Chiasmanlo with my Theas and 494 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 5: my cousins. It's late at night, everybody's defenses are down, 495 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 5: and that's when I'm not trying to check my Miami accent. 496 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 4: Because I think it makes me sound less educated or something. 497 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 3: You know, I've only recently been able to think of 498 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 3: myself as respectable, and I think a lot of that 499 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 3: is because so much of my Latinx identity is deeply 500 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: tied with class and gender and my experience in being 501 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: this working class, flamboyant chi they Latina with a huge butt. 502 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 3: I know that my words have never really carried much weight, 503 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 3: but it has been that act of dismissal that has 504 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 3: always fueled my desire to just own my truths own 505 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 3: my cheese, miss because for me, there's been nothing more 506 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 3: powerful than just living in my truth. 507 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back, Nissa Helite's the cheese Man. So 508 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: how did the assignment go? 509 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: We have so much to share, my god? 510 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 5: Okay, So we first talked to two reality TV stars 511 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 5: from the Real Housewives of Miami and they had some 512 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 5: interesting suggestions about our Cheesema. 513 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 6: Maria Luca, that's not a good one. 514 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 9: Why do you say she has like a fake leg 515 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 9: or something. 516 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: Okay, that's like the craziest thing I've ever heard that 517 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: what's easier to make people believe is that I have 518 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: a fake leg, not that I'm using weight. 519 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 3: Our second expert was an entertainment journalist, and she wanted 520 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: us to take it even. 521 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 12: Further say that she was just vacationing at mar A Lago. 522 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 2: Wow, I think she knows me because to that one, 523 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: that's some pretty serious cheesement that could destroy my career. 524 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: Good thing. We spoke to our last expert, Lo Toro 525 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 3: riaz Neavz, who reminded us that cheesemut is supposed to 526 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,479 Speaker 3: be organic, it's not supposed to be fabricated. So in 527 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: this case, our experiment took an unexpected turn. 528 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm totally confused and intrigued. Now I want to 529 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 2: know what happened. 530 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 4: Okay, So. 531 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 5: What we're saying is that we didn't end up telling 532 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 5: anybody on our team that you wear a wig. 533 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: Oh. 534 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: We learned that the space where cheesemu happens is really 535 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 3: vital because you need to build that intimacy and confienza. 536 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 3: You got to look people in the eye. But because 537 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 3: we're all working remotely, we realize that spreading the cheese 538 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 3: may wasn't really going to happen as naturally as we wanted. 539 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 2: In other words, cheese may has actually taken a hit 540 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 2: during the pandemic. 541 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 3: It was a really unexpected loss. 542 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 2: I did wonder, how do you start cheesemaup when you're 543 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: not all in the office, So yeah, the pandemic hit again. 544 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 5: We were also just thinking what if we did start 545 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 5: spreading this cheesemail. What if we started having meetings with 546 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 5: other producers and we were like, hey, guess what, Madia's 547 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 5: hair is fake? What if that was an invitation for 548 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 5: them to say some really mean, nasty things about your hair. 549 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 2: The thing about cheese may is that it can go dark, 550 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: it can get cruel, and it can be used as 551 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: a takedown. 552 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 553 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 5: I mean, we also have to remember that cheese may 554 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 5: is a way that belief systems are built and also maintained. So, 555 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 5: for example, if I'm talking to Una Senora and she's 556 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 5: gossiping to me about how someone gained weight and she's 557 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 5: framing it as something shameful, that she is not going 558 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 5: to be fun for me because body shaming is against 559 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 5: my personal ethical code. 560 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: And so that is the other side of cheesema where 561 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 2: we can be laughing and joking. But then it's like, 562 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 2: oh uh, there was a crossover right there, and I 563 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: understand that that would have been hard. Also if anybody 564 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: said anything bad about my hair, I'd have to come 565 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: at them, not just kidding. 566 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 5: So even though we didn't end up spreading the wig Cheesemay, 567 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 5: I think that we still came out on top because 568 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 5: we had a breakthrough. We learned that we'd come from 569 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 5: a long line of cheese malsas who like us, knew 570 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 5: that gossip isn't just silly women's talk. It deserves more 571 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 5: respect because it can be a tool for resistance. 572 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 3: Yes exactly, it's an ancestral language, a save for cheesemad 573 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 3: right there. And you know, this experiment has made us 574 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 3: realize that it's not even so much what we're cheeseman 575 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 3: though about, but rather the connection that cheese May is creating. 576 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 12: My ps and I live such different lives and sometimes 577 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 12: it's hard to find things to talk about, but we 578 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 12: can always talk about Talia always. Cheese May creates commonalities 579 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 12: for us to discuss and discuss passionately and energetically and 580 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 12: have fun together. 581 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 7: Gossip, for us is a real important connective tissue, connecting 582 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 7: us us Latinas to Latin America, connecting us within our communities. Right, 583 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 7: it can be a bridge so that sense of belonging, 584 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 7: that sense of being part of that community is heightened 585 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 7: with the gossip. 586 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 6: I don't know, this is like a therapy session. 587 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: See that's it. 588 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 10: You know. 589 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: For me, cheese may is like bonding in particular with 590 00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: family and joy and storytelling. I mean when I understood 591 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: that what my mom was doing during the time that 592 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 2: we were Cheesemando was actually telling me great stories, it was. 593 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: A turning point for me. 594 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 2: I was like, wait, I'm a storyteller too, and that 595 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: basically changed my whole life. 596 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 5: I think I'm hearing that since we're all professional storytellers, 597 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 5: were also professional chiese mosas. And you know what, that 598 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 5: is nothing to be ashamed of. It is what gives 599 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 5: us our power. 600 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 3: Ooh yes, our powers. 601 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: It's official because this sientific, asad cheese May have told us. 602 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 2: So Elisa, Monica, your assignment is now complete. I am 603 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: blessing you to go off to cheese me Are until 604 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: you can't anymore, and that you're spreading the gospel of 605 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: Cheesemare's resistance. So until your next assignment, off you go, 606 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 2: my little Angels of Cheesemas. This episode was produced by 607 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 2: Monica Moralis Garcia and Elisa Maena. It was edited by 608 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez and mixed by Stephanie Leveaux and Julia Caruso. 609 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,959 Speaker 2: Thenanda Echavari is our managing editor. The Latino USA team 610 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 2: also includes Froxanna Guire, Jessica Ellis, Victoria Strada, Renaldo Leanos Junior, 611 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Cruzado, Louis Luna, Dori mar Marquez, Lugeta Martinelli, 612 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: JJ Carubin, Adrena Rodriez. 613 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: And Nancy Trujillo. 614 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 2: Nilee Ramirez and I are co executive producers and I'm 615 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 2: your host Mariano Rosa. Latino USA is part of Iheart's 616 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: Mike Utura podcast network. Executive producers at iHeart are Leogo 617 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: Miz and Arlene Santana. 618 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode. 619 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: In the meantime, I'll see you on all of our 620 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 2: social media and don't forget, dear listener, Join Futuro Plus. 621 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: You get to listen to the episode. 622 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 2: Ad free and get bonus episodes and yes, some behind 623 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 2: the scenes cheese men, and you'll be supporting Futuro Media, 624 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 2: which we know you love. 625 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: Estella Proxima c 626 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 3: Chao Latino USA is made possible in part by Skyline 627 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 3: Foundation the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the front 628 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: lines of social change worldwide, and Michelle Mercer and Bruce 629 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 3: Golden