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Speaker 1: Time is the greatest gift we can give and receive.

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Speaker 1: As we turn the clocks back this fall, Bristol Meyers

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Speaker 1: Squib is recognizing oncologists who help give patients something extraordinary,

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Speaker 1: more time. The Time Back Campaign celebrates those everyday heroes

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Speaker 1: who are working tirelessly in the pursuit of potentially helping

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Speaker 1: get patients more time to experience key moments like seeing

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Speaker 1: a child learned to ride a bike or a long

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Speaker 1: awaited vacation. As we turn back our clocks, let's pause

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Speaker 1: to thank the doctors who make a difference every day.

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Speaker 1: Discover more about the Time Back Campaign and join Bristol

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Speaker 1: Myers Squib and celebrating the physicians who give the gift

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Speaker 1: of more time at BMS dot com slash time back.

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Speaker 2: I understand there's some people that represent very, very blue states.

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Speaker 2: They have the luxury of just saying we're all gas,

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Speaker 2: no breaks. But when I represent a place like Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: it keeps you honest and now there's another side and

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Speaker 2: trying to find a way forward. And then let's talk

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Speaker 2: at numbers. In Pennsylvania. We had two million, two million

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Speaker 2: people on Snap and around four hundred thousand Pennsylvanians receive

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Speaker 2: those text credits, and now, right now, keeping our government

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Speaker 2: shut down, they're getting neither.

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Speaker 1: My guest today, Senator John Fetterman, has never exactly fit

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Speaker 1: the mold of a US senator. He's six foot eight,

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Speaker 1: and he favors hoodies and Jim Schortz over Brooks Brothers suits.

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Speaker 1: In his new book called Unfettered, Senator Fetterman opens up

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Speaker 1: about his twenty twenty two stroke, his battle with depression,

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Speaker 1: and his remarkable recovery. But since there's no such thing

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Speaker 1: as a slow news day, we also talked about the

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Speaker 1: end of the government shutdown, a resolution he helped facilitate

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Speaker 1: and one that has elicited a lot of anger from

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Speaker 1: his constituents. Meanwhile, what were his impressions when he met

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Speaker 1: with Donald Trump at the White House? Does he regret

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Speaker 1: his unapologetic support of Israel? How does he feel about

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Speaker 1: the ice raids happening all over the country. These are

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Speaker 1: some of the topics we covered, but some of the

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Speaker 1: most intimate and emotional parts of our conversation focused on

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Speaker 1: his struggle with depression and his desire to stop anyone

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Speaker 1: facing a similar struggle from making a choice that they

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Speaker 1: can't recover from. Here's my conversation with Senator John Fetterman.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for including me in your media tour.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Here's your books.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I recognize that unfortunate face, but it's thank you

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Speaker 2: for having me on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, of course.

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Speaker 1: Well I was going to start with sort of breaking

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Speaker 1: news and then get to the bull.

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Speaker 2: Sure, definitely. Yeah, I mean I know that's been the

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Speaker 2: big story for Yeah, of course, of course.

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Speaker 1: Senator Fetterman, I know you were among the senators who

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Speaker 1: broke ranks with Democrats to advance the GOP plan to

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Speaker 1: end the shutdown. Now that isn't a surprise given how

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Speaker 1: staunchly you oppose all government shutdowns and I quote I

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Speaker 1: will never, ever, ever, ever, ever vote to shut our

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Speaker 1: government down, which sounds like a riff of a Taylor

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Speaker 1: Swift song, by the way, So why are you so

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Speaker 1: opposed in general, Senator, to government shutdowns under any circumstance.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you have to bring Taylor Swift

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Speaker 2: into it, now, I have to flex that we were

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Speaker 2: born at the same hospital, So maybe that's part of

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Speaker 2: channeling that. Okay, And now, remember the last time the

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Speaker 2: government was shut down. That was the Republicans, and we

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Speaker 2: were rightly, very very critical of them because that's effectively

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Speaker 2: holding our government hostage. And now when we arrived and

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Speaker 2: decided to do that, you know, I just voted to say,

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Speaker 2: I think that's wrong. You know, we can absolutely want

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Speaker 2: to extend our text credits, but to put forty two

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Speaker 2: million Americans at food insecurity and not pay our military

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Speaker 2: and not pay all of the unions attached by all

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Speaker 2: of this thing, and remind people too, a lot of

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Speaker 2: you are going to be flying and making flying less safe.

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Speaker 2: That is absolutely the wrong approach to fight for health insurance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that that must have been weighing on

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Speaker 1: the minds of the eight Democrats who wanted to come

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Speaker 1: to some conclusion. How much did the upcoming Thanksgiving holidays

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Speaker 1: way into this?

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Speaker 2: The majority of Democrats were like, what's the exit ramp?

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Speaker 2: You know, like, do we want forty two million Americans

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Speaker 2: not even have their food for Thanksgiving or to be

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Speaker 2: able to travel in our nation? And now, in just

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Speaker 2: the mice in Philadelphia, eighteen out of twenty two air

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Speaker 2: traffic controllers didn't show up to work. You know, we

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Speaker 2: all have an investment making our flying safe. And you

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Speaker 2: can want health insurance as I do. But that means

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Speaker 2: that you can't tax and create that kinds of chaos

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Speaker 2: and that vital part of our economy, but also on

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Speaker 2: a very big part of public safety.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you have said quote strongly support those tax

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Speaker 1: credits to make healthcare more affordable. But my understanding is

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Speaker 1: the deal that you agreed to only guarantees a December vote,

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Speaker 1: and even then House Speaker Mike Johnson hasn't agreed to

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Speaker 1: a House vote on the issue, making the chances of

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Speaker 1: an extension increasingly bleak. So what do you say to

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Speaker 1: those like Bernie Sanders who insists that this vote paves

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Speaker 1: the way for fifteen million people to be thrown off

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Speaker 1: of Medicaid and the likelihood that premiums will double, triple

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Speaker 1: or even quadruple for twenty million Americans.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, Bernie should answer why he's okay with

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Speaker 2: putting forty two million Americans to face mass food insecurity,

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Speaker 2: or he can explain to the military why it's okay

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Speaker 2: not to pay them and the tens of millions of

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Speaker 2: American that are going to be flying and are flying.

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Speaker 2: You know, he can have his priorities, and I share

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Speaker 2: some of those priorities to extend those tax credits, but

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Speaker 2: we have a different we have a different tactic at

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Speaker 2: this point, and there was no guarantee regardless for this

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Speaker 2: because it's all going to come down to Trump and

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Speaker 2: he really has the ability to just change everything for things.

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Speaker 2: So this idea that there was, it's simple to achieve

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Speaker 2: an ironclad kind of situation that just doesn't exist. And

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Speaker 2: for me, that's a risk I refuse to take. And

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Speaker 2: for them, they have a different view.

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Speaker 1: Where do you put your positioning, Senator in terms of

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Speaker 1: getting these healthcare issues resolved in a way that will

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Speaker 1: not leave so many Americans with much higher premiums or

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Speaker 1: kicked off Medicaid? Do you think Democrats are in a

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Speaker 1: stronger or weaker position now to prevent those things from happening.

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Speaker 2: I should say, well, well, this is part of the

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Speaker 2: truth too, that we are party. My party designed these

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Speaker 2: to expire here. I mean that was us. That wasn't

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Speaker 2: the Republican changing that or doing anything. The Republicans saying

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Speaker 2: we have to negotiate on these things. And if Republicans

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Speaker 2: want this for their constituents, and it's entirely possible they

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Speaker 2: do want those things, but open up the government and

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Speaker 2: we can have that conversation. So that's also being straight

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Speaker 2: on the facts. And it's like that wasn't their plan.

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Speaker 2: That's the way we designed that when we were in

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Speaker 2: the firm majority, and that was part of the COVID pandemic.

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Speaker 2: And then I felt like entirely after that election that

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Speaker 2: was a great opportunity to take take that win. And

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Speaker 2: now it's very clear there's a lot of backlash for voters.

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Speaker 2: The voters reject chaos. And now for me, when you're

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Speaker 2: faced with that kind of mad, crazy chaos, well, I

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Speaker 2: think you should respond to order and logic, in respond

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Speaker 2: with our core values. And that's not putting forty two

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Speaker 2: million Americans for mass food and security or supporting our military.

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Speaker 2: I mean, today it's Veterans Day, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think we want to honor them. In part two,

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Speaker 2: let's pay our military. That's part of it too. But

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Speaker 2: my issue is that to attack the kinds of Democrats

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Speaker 2: that happen to have a different view, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: we're caving. It just means like, hey, maybe we have

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Speaker 2: a different way of seeing things right there on the ground,

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Speaker 2: and they can't really describe what their exit ramp is

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Speaker 2: or how they can define it. So I know, I

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Speaker 2: understand there's some people that represent very very blue states.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's they have the luxury of just saying

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Speaker 2: we're all gas, no breaks. But when I represent a

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Speaker 2: place like Pennsylvania, it keeps you honest and now there's

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Speaker 2: another side and trying to find a way forward. And

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Speaker 2: then let's talk at numbers. In Pennsylvania. We had two million,

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Speaker 2: two million people on Snap and around four hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: Pennsylvanians receive those text credits, and now right now, keeping

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Speaker 2: our government shut down, they're getting neither. You know.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed Angus King yesterday and he was one of

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Speaker 1: well he is an independent, but he was part of

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Speaker 1: the group that wanted to negotiate a deal to get

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Speaker 1: the government to reopen. And basically his question was what

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Speaker 1: was the endgame? How was a negotiation going to happen

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Speaker 1: given the fact that the Republicans weren't budging on this.

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Speaker 1: What would your message be to Bernie Sanders right now

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Speaker 1: if you could speak to him directly.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Bernie, okay, Well, I would respond with a question saying, Hey,

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Speaker 2: you're talking to a single mother with three kids and

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Speaker 2: there's nothing on their snap card, you know, tell them that, hey,

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Speaker 2: just hang on, hang on, We got your back. But

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Speaker 2: we are in a big political battle. It's like you

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Speaker 2: just have to find a way your way forward.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the response that you've gotten

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Speaker 1: on social media. I was reading it yesterday, some of

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Speaker 1: the comments on threads. One woman wrote, my fifty year old,

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Speaker 1: otherwise healthy husband has cancer. His treatment costs five hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty seven thousand dollars. We can't afford that your

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Speaker 1: vote may very well kill my husband. His life and

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Speaker 1: the lives of thousands of others are in your hands.

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Speaker 1: So far you're condemning them to death. Someone else writes,

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Speaker 1: you failed us and no longer deserve to represent us.

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Speaker 1: Just go home and let us win the fight. We

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Speaker 1: no longer need cowards around us. We embraced you when

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Speaker 1: you were sick, donated to your campaign. You are so ungrateful.

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Speaker 1: Shame on you. Another rights when I die, I want

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Speaker 1: John Fetterman to be my pallbearer so he can let

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Speaker 1: me down for the zillientth and final time, because dying

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Speaker 1: is the only way I'll stop being appalled by him

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Speaker 1: and all the knives he plunged into our backs. Finally,

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Speaker 1: Lydia Russo writes, disgraceful capitulation, Senator, shame on you. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious to hear your reaction to those comments.

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Speaker 2: My only reaction is like, my heart breaks, and I'm

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Speaker 2: so sorry that they're in this difficult situation regarding their health. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry to be and then that so regardless, Now,

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Speaker 2: there are many people that are in the middle of

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Speaker 2: this right now, and I'm sorry that they're caught in

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Speaker 2: the middle of this political battle.

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Speaker 1: They're blaming you though, clearly, Senator for reopening the government

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Speaker 1: and what they seem to believe is giving up the

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Speaker 1: fight for healthcare for people like them.

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Speaker 2: Any other response, their response is just I'm so sorry

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Speaker 2: that you're in this situation. And now, for me, I

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Speaker 2: think shutting down our entire government is the appropriate way

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Speaker 2: to achieve health insurance. And again, it's a tragedy and

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that they're in that situation.

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Speaker 1: Going back to the potential vote on these issues that

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Speaker 1: Senator Thune sort of has given his word on, but

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Speaker 1: Mike Johnson is being a little more slippery. What would

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Speaker 1: you say to Mike Johnson to support some of the

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Speaker 1: people who are writing these kinds of comments.

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Speaker 2: I lost the count of how many times I voted

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Speaker 2: to extend those text credits. I would be the first

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Speaker 2: guy to vote for those kinds of a thing, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not the guy stopping this. And you know, there's

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Speaker 2: not a single Democrat in the Capital that wouldn't vote

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Speaker 2: to extend those text credits, not a single one. And

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Speaker 2: now democracy has put us in the minority. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't have a democratic president as well either, So

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things working against that right now.

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Speaker 2: And it's not about opening up the government. It's really

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Speaker 2: about the situation that we are in right now. And

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Speaker 2: what I can say to Mike Johnson is is like, I, hey,

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Speaker 2: let's do these folks right, you know, because plenty of

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Speaker 2: their constituents are going to be touched by this too,

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Speaker 2: And I do believe if it's going to impact that

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Speaker 2: and they realize that it's bad politics and it's just

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Speaker 2: bad for our nation, then we can find a way

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Speaker 2: forward for these kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: I know, Senator, you've gotten a reputation for not always

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Speaker 1: quote unquote falling in line with your fellow Democrats, being

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Speaker 1: an independent voice and in your book Unfettered You right,

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Speaker 1: I've drunk deeply of the venom of both the left

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Speaker 1: and the right, and the most poisonous, the bitterest, is

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Speaker 1: from the far left.

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Speaker 3: Those are strong words.

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Speaker 1: Tell me why you wrote that and what motivated those comments.

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Speaker 2: I asked my digital folks, I said, what's the harshest

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Speaker 2: social and they said, oh, absolutely, it's blue Sky, Blue Sky.

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Speaker 2: It's been my experience. The right you would say, you know, really,

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Speaker 2: you know, mean things and call me names and that thing.

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Speaker 2: But what's really emerged on the other side, it's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm rooting for your next stroke, or it sucks that

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Speaker 2: depression didn't win, or I hope your kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: you know, can just witness you know, you die, and

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Speaker 2: all these kinds of things. People forget that there's a

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Speaker 2: name attached to these things. So for me, it's it's

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Speaker 2: an indictment on social media. But what I'm saying, it's

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Speaker 2: been in my experience that it's both difficult, but some

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Speaker 2: of the most personal things are when someone's praying for

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Speaker 2: my death and they want my children to find me

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Speaker 2: there It's like, I think that's a little next level versus, hey,

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Speaker 2: I have happen to disagree with you.

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Speaker 1: You've said that Donald Trump, in your view, is not

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Speaker 1: an autocrat because his presidency is quote the product of

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Speaker 1: a democratic election. But history has shown that even leaders

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Speaker 1: who come to power through elections can still govern in

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Speaker 1: anti democratic ways. So I have to ask, when you

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Speaker 1: consider some of Donald Trump's behaviors and policies, like deploying

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Speaker 1: federal forces to US cities, undermining the Department of Justice,

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Speaker 1: is independence attempting to overturn the twenty twenty election. Does

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Speaker 1: that not trouble you deeply?

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Speaker 2: Well? Of course, I was really the tip of the

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Speaker 2: spear in the twenty twenty election in Pennsylvania where he

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Speaker 2: claimed that it wasn't like a fair, safe election. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I pushed back violently on that, and I don't support

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Speaker 2: many of these things that are happening right now. I

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Speaker 2: don't never vote for those things. But I think at

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Speaker 2: this point right now, we are not in an autocracy.

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Speaker 2: You know, We're in the democracy. And that's why they

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Speaker 2: were able to shut our government down. And that doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that we appreciate what's happening. And that expression it's

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Speaker 2: not normal, it's like, yes, it isn't normal, but that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean this is an autocracy right now, and what

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Speaker 2: it does mean that we have a lot of hills

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Speaker 2: that we can choose to die on. But I think

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Speaker 2: for me, I've just been choosing some of the most

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Speaker 2: difficult ones and that's where I've been and not supporting.

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Speaker 2: You know, many of these things that are happening.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that Donald Trump is not conducting himself

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Speaker 1: or not pushing policies though that you would consider to

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Speaker 1: be anti democratic?

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Speaker 2: What I'm saying as a Democrat with a ninety percent

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Speaker 2: record voting Democrat, that's a fact. That's not my opinion,

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Speaker 2: that's my number.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm talking about Donald Trump's some of the things

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Speaker 1: that he's doing. If you don't believe we're living in

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Speaker 1: an autocracy, would you can see that some of the

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Speaker 1: things that he is doing are clearly anti democratic and

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Speaker 1: also are potentially even unconstitutional.

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Speaker 2: So for me, it's like, you know, we have a

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Speaker 2: difference here. It's like if you believe we live in

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Speaker 2: autocracy and I don't, and I think we can both

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Speaker 2: agree that we've asked. We don't agree with the vest

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Speaker 2: majority of those things that's happened here right now, and

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't do those things. I wouldn't have made those

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Speaker 2: same kind of decisions for that, and that's that's fine.

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Speaker 2: Where we are right now, a committed Democrat and we

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Speaker 2: happen to have a different view of these things. You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I don't call people fascists or Nazis or

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Speaker 2: compare people to Hitler, and I think that's part of

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Speaker 2: why we lost our election last year. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you call the person that you might vote for, that

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Speaker 2: implies that you must be a fascist or you're trying

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Speaker 2: to destroy our nation. And I know, and I love

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Speaker 2: with some of those people, and they're not doing any

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Speaker 2: of those things. So that's really the thing. So and

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of Americans chose chose that an option

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Speaker 2: that I did not choose, and actually campaigned the entire

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Speaker 2: effectively the year for Harris and Biden after he before

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Speaker 2: he dropped out. So that's exactly where where we are.

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Speaker 1: I know that you write about your wife, Giselle, who

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Speaker 1: came to the US as an undocumented immigrant before eventually

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Speaker 1: becoming an American citizen, So I know, Senator you have

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Speaker 1: a front row seat to the process when you think

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Speaker 1: about her story, I wonder how you square that with

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Speaker 1: the way the Trump administration is handling immigration from the

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Speaker 1: ice rage to the broader rhetoric around migrants in this country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think that's why two things must be true,

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Speaker 2: and it's fully compatible. I remain one of the most

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Speaker 2: pro immigration senator in the entire Senate. And I also

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Speaker 2: happen to believe it's mass chaos when we have three

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand people showing up at our border every month,

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Speaker 2: and you know, acknowledging that my party did a terrible

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Speaker 2: job on securing our border during the Biden administration. For me,

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Speaker 2: chaos chaos is that you have these ice raids and targeting,

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Speaker 2: you know, otherwise hardworking migrants. I don't support those things.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm appalled by those things. But I think

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Speaker 2: also there's significant chaos about we need to have us

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Speaker 2: secure our border.

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Speaker 1: Shouldn't there be another way to do both of those

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Speaker 1: things in terms of securing the border. It's my understanding, Senator,

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Speaker 1: and maybe you can clarify it for me and for

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Speaker 1: people watching and listening that there was a bipartisan immigration

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Speaker 1: bill that was really worked out by Publicans and Democrats

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Speaker 1: over the course of many, many months that Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: urged his fellow Republicans not to vote on because he

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Speaker 1: instead wanted to use it as a campaign talking point

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Speaker 1: and to in fact weaponize the whole issue of immigration.

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Speaker 1: So couldn't a vote have happened that would have maybe

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Speaker 1: provided some solutions for these issues at the border and

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Speaker 1: not had the situation where these ICE agents are racially

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Speaker 1: profiling people, They're separating kids from their families. ICE agents

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Speaker 1: are driving off with toddlers in the back seats and

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Speaker 1: car seats. Why didn't the Senate vote on this comprehensive

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Speaker 1: immigration legislation before the campaign?

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Speaker 2: Well? I voted for that, all Democrats did, But I

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Speaker 2: also knew that we would get rolled on it, because

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Speaker 2: of course we're going to get rolled on that because

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Speaker 2: that is one of his biggest clubs. He's not going

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Speaker 2: to hand that over and take that him away. And

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Speaker 2: he was able to derail all of that because and

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Speaker 2: he wasn't even the president at that time, So that's

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Speaker 2: where we are. I fully fully expected that there wasn't

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Speaker 2: going to be a bipartisan deal because that is one

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Speaker 2: of his major major things he used to win.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I know, and I guess that's why I wonder

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Speaker 1: if it's fair to blame the Biden administration to well,

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Speaker 1: you just did blame the Democrats for not doing a

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Speaker 1: good job at the border, and I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, there was this bipartisan legislation which

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Speaker 1: would have addressed the issue at the border, but Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump wouldn't allow the Republicans to vote for it because

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to give them a win, as you

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Speaker 1: just said. So it seems to me that to give

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Speaker 1: him credit when he actually was an impediment to getting

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Speaker 1: this ledge passed seems misplaced, if you know what I'm saying. No,

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Speaker 1: not really, you don't know what I'm saying here.

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Speaker 2: No, people negotiated a bipartisan deal because the Democrats finally realized, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's a mess there. And then the population the size

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Speaker 2: of Pittsburgh was showing up at the border every month,

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Speaker 2: every month, and now they were eager, eager to trying

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Speaker 2: to find a deal because they knew we would pay

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Speaker 2: a significant price for the election. And then I expected

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Speaker 2: that the president would well, actually he wasn't the president

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Speaker 2: at the time. He controls the party, and it's like, hey, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no way, And that's what happened. I had a professor

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Speaker 2: at grad school, Alan Simpson, if you can remember.

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Speaker 3: I remember him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he told me this back in nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 2: And remember he was a Republican, a pro choice Republican

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Speaker 2: from Wyoming. That's how things have changed. Regardless. He said,

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Speaker 2: you're never going to have any significant immigration kinds of

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Speaker 2: a deal because both sides use it and it's too

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Speaker 2: useful for people to have an actual solution right now.

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Speaker 2: And he said that at that point, over a quarter

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Speaker 2: century ago. And that's where we were for that, and

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Speaker 2: I voted for it. I did, but on one vote,

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately more people would have voted for it. And

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Speaker 2: that's part of where we are.

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Speaker 1: My point is, Senator, we wouldn't be in this situation

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Speaker 1: if Donald Trump hadn't prevented Republicans from moving this legislation forward.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't have ICE agents deployed to all these cities

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Speaker 1: across the country. We would have solved some of the

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Speaker 1: immigration problems at the border if that legislation had been

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Speaker 1: allowed to pass.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, legislation that I voted for.

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Speaker 1: And right, but a solution was at hand. And yet

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, because he wanted to use it as a

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Speaker 1: campaign weapon, stopped it from moving forward.

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Speaker 3: That's all. That's my understanding.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. In fact, I think he effectively said the same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like a blame me, blame me. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think he's even said that.

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Speaker 1: In this conversation, we're going to look at the profound

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Speaker 1: support oncologists provide, guiding patients and families through difficult moments

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Speaker 1: while helping give back milestones and key life moments. Monica,

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Speaker 1: I have had to interact with a number of oncologists

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Speaker 1: during my life. Can you talk about the support aspect

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Speaker 1: of an oncologist's role.

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Speaker 4: The role of oncologists is really one that I have

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Speaker 4: so much admiration for people that are stepping into that

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Speaker 4: space because having to stay up to date with that

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Speaker 4: science and matt medicine while retaining your humanity and being

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Speaker 4: able to engage people on that one to one space

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Speaker 4: is something that's a very very special relationship.

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Speaker 1: In fact, Monica, I read that oncologists may be in

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Speaker 1: a position to have to tell families not great news

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Speaker 1: as many as twenty thousand times over the course of

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Speaker 1: their career.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that an incredible number to think about? And the

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Speaker 4: way this human mind works is that we often remember

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Speaker 4: the bad more than that, we remember the good and

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Speaker 4: I think one of the ways that we can support

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Speaker 4: on cologists is by reminding them that they are also

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Speaker 4: there for the positive parts of that cancer journey.

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Speaker 1: Well, I too, having known many in my sixty eight years,

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Speaker 1: am so appreciative that I have an opportunity to say

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Speaker 1: thank you on behalf of patients everywhere and their families.

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Speaker 4: It's been an absolute pleasure, Katie, Thank you so much

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Speaker 4: for the opportunity. Please come and visit us at BMS

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Speaker 4: dot com slash time back and you can learn more

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00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 4: there about our commitments oncologists and the time back that

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Speaker 4: they potentially can give to patients.

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Speaker 1: As we've heard, on don't just treat cancer, They aim

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Speaker 1: to return precious time, helping people savor celebrations big and small,

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Speaker 1: from birthdays to watching a child's baseball game. Time is

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Speaker 1: the greatest gift we can give and receive. As we

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Speaker 1: turn the clocks back this fall, Bristol Meyers SQUIB is

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00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: recognizing oncologists who help give patients something extraordinary more time.

435
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: The Time Back campaign celebrates those everyday heroes who are

436
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: working tirelessly in the pursuit of potentially helping get patients

437
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: more time to experience key moments like seeing a child

438
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: learned to ride a bike or a long awaited vacation.

439
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: As we turn back our clocks, let's pause to thank

440
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: the doctors who make a difference every day. Discover more

441
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: about the time Back campaign and join Bristol Meyers Squib

442
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: and celebrating the physicians who give the gift of more

443
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: time at BMS dot com slash time back. You've been

444
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: criticized by some in your party for your stepfast support

445
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: of Israel, and I know that you write in the

446
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: book that some former staffers turned on you because of it,

447
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: and they have implied that your support of Israel has

448
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: to do with your impaired mental health, which you say

449
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: is not true. Can you talk about this criticism and

450
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: the larger split it represents in your party between progressives

451
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: and moderates.

452
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have anything to comment on those things,

453
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 2: but yes, it's absolutely true. Israel has divided Democrats without

454
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: a doubt, and I remained an unapologetic supporter of Israel.

455
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: And that's where I am and now here we are

456
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: now actual peace here in the region, and I think

457
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: that's a profound outcome, and after what Israel was able

458
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: to achieve. They were able to break and effectively destroy

459
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 2: Hamas Hezbollah as well too. And now Iran, you know,

460
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: their nuclear facilities, clearly trying to acquire a nuclear weapon.

461
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 2: And I absolutely supported those strikes as well too. And

462
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: now here we are in a position now for real peace,

463
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 2: and I think that's a good thing. And I just

464
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: call balls and strikes. It's like I can celebrate those

465
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 2: things regardless of who it's coming from.

466
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm curious do you have any issue with Benjamin Netanyahu

467
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: in the response to the October seventh attacks, which killed

468
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: nearly seventy thousand people, about half of whom are women

469
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: and children, along with about ninety five hundred people missing

470
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: and presume debt according to the Gossam Ministry of Health.

471
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm just curious if your stepfast support of Israel has

472
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: ever win when you consider the response to October seventh,

473
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: which many believe was disproportionate.

474
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: Well, what, I believe that the tragedy in Gaza, absolutely,

475
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: undeniably it was a tragedy. Now you have a choice,

476
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: do you blame Israel, which I don't, or I blame Hamas,

477
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: I blame Iran, and I blame some of those nations

478
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: in the region that didn't hold Hamas accountable, and you

479
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 2: have to pick a side. I'm absolutely going to pick

480
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: the democratically elected leader of our ally and that they

481
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: project and protect the kinds of values that we live

482
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: and we want in our nation. And that's a choice,

483
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: you know, for now too. If I am going to

484
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: criticize one side, it's going to be entirely on the

485
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: people that what they've done on ten seven and that

486
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: they keep human beings underground for two years. I've met

487
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: with them and the nightmares that they've been through as

488
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: well too. Absolutely, that's a tragedy. And now peace and

489
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: now we can rebuild Gaza, and there's perhaps a better solution. Now. Remember,

490
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: if Hamas has not done what they've done, you know,

491
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 2: all of these people would still be alive, and or

492
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: if they would have chosen a two state solution that

493
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: President Clinton produced back in nineteen ninety nine. I had

494
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: a chance to talk to him at a campaign event

495
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: that I had with Kamala Harris, and he reminded they

496
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: were offered ninety six percent and they could pick four

497
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: percent for Israel and they could have East Jerusalem as

498
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: the capital, and they would have had a two state

499
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: solution and they rejected that. So there's some accountability when

500
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: when they had a two state solution. It really the

501
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: truth there is that they is a one nation solution

502
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: and that's no Israel and wiping it out. And also,

503
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, I yess if you're harsh, I'd be harsh

504
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: on Iran. Why are they trying to build a bomb

505
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: and they've promised to destroy it. That's one of their

506
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: organizing principles is to destroy Israel trying to build a

507
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: nuclear bomb. I'm going to criticize that before I criticize

508
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: Israel because they refuse to send on the hostages and

509
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: to disarm. That's the way wars operate.

510
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: Do you have any solution for bridging the intense divide

511
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: that this has resulted in for the Democratic Party?

512
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: That's difficult. And I'm convinced that younger voters, you know,

513
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 2: they're gone and now they I think I've seen polls

514
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: where they identify more with Hamas than Israel, and I

515
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: think that's part of TikTok and social media that created

516
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: a bubble devoid of history and devoid of a lot

517
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 2: of the situation on ground, and most people don't remember

518
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: or even New that they have an opportunity for a

519
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: two state solution to build their own nation in peace,

520
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: but they were strongly rejected that.

521
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Do you think this is irreparable within the party? I

522
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: know you talked about it being generational. Do you think

523
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: there's any way to find common ground when it comes

524
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: to the topic of Israel for Democrats in general?

525
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: Part of the issue that with some Democrats most of

526
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: it came from. Much of it came from is my

527
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: support for Israel. And anyone that can look up my

528
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: record to vote ninety percent the damn line from a

529
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: very purple state like Pennsylvania, I think that would identify

530
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,959
Speaker 2: me as a committed Democrat. I'm not changing my party,

531
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: and I had a very strong support for Israel. But

532
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: what I can say that picking aside for this it

533
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: was a very easy choice if you study the history

534
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: or if you can see the circumstance is right there

535
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: on the ground.

536
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious to get your reaction, Senator Fetterman, to the

537
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: election of Zorammam Donnie as the new mayor of New

538
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: York City. I'm sure you were following this race pretty closely.

539
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: What do you make of his victory here?

540
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: I really I wasn't following it closely, and I would

541
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: have no strong opinion with him. But people keep asking

542
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 2: because he and I knew it would become a litmus

543
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: and he's not my mayor. I don't live in New

544
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: York City, and he will have virtually no impact on

545
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: my life or my politics.

546
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: I was asking more as like, you know, your reaction

547
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: in terms of what it signals to the Democratic Party

548
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: probably more than the impact he'll have on your life

549
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: for your constituents.

550
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: You know, well what it again, I won't have any impact,

551
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: you know, in the politics that are required to win

552
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: the next presidential election. It's not going to come down

553
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: to how New York City votes. It's going to depend

554
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: on how my state votes. When fifty percent plus one wins,

555
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: then that means one person supports you, and that means

556
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: there's another one that opposes you. In a very deep,

557
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 2: deep blue city, I truly truly wish him the best.

558
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: I would never root against it. I'm going to root

559
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: for anyone because I'm rooting for New York City. It's

560
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 2: it's a magnificent city and that's where that's where we are.

561
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: And people keep asking me, well, what's your opinion on him,

562
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's their next mayor, and it's like,

563
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 2: I am a Pennsylvania senator and we have different values

564
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 2: and that's the circumstances. And I'm not surprised. And I've

565
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: predicted that that's going to become a significant part of

566
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: the messaging for the GOP and they've used that.

567
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: President Trump himself has called you, quote the most sensible Democrat.

568
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: And I know you met with him in January, you

569
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: say in part because you wanted to quote find kinship

570
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: and common ground over the fact that you would both

571
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: come face to face with death. I'm curious what were

572
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: your impressions of him? Can you tell us a little

573
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: bit about that meeting and what you thought of him

574
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: in general.

575
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 2: Well, they reached out and they wanted to invite me

576
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 2: to attend dinner, and that was in January, before he

577
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: was even took the office, and as a senator for

578
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania and the president, you know, would like to meet

579
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: with you. I think that's part of the party and

580
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty reasonable to say, Okay, sure, absolutely,

581
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean we agree on everything. And that's what

582
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: I decided to do. And we spoke for about seventy

583
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: five minutes and overall, and my wife was there too,

584
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: and we even discussed possibly, hey, could there be a

585
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: deal about the Dreamers? And again, I just wanted to

586
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: have that. And I'm again, you know, you talked about

587
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: immigrant you know, I'm constantly it's like, I would love

588
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: to protect the Dreamers. Absolutely, And that's part of my

589
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: wife's story. She came here when she was seven years old.

590
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 2: I agree, And that's why I had dinner with him.

591
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: And if a Republican, you know, got an offer to

592
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: have dinner with Obama, and if if he or she

593
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: said absolutely not, whatever, I think people would be like,

594
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: why not? Why not? It's like, what's the big deal,

595
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 2: what's the problem.

596
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody suggesting you shouldn't have met with him.

597
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know a lot of people, you're, well,

598
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I just wanted to know your impressions of him.

599
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: Was he receptive to your ideas? Did he strike you

600
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 1: as a different person than he is on say, social

601
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: media and in some of his rhetoric.

602
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: I was just curious, profoundly different, absolutely profoundly different, you know,

603
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: than his public persona. And one of the reason why

604
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: I did that because we both survived a near death

605
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: experience and it really changed me. And I was wondering, Hey,

606
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: did that change your life? Because you had probably the

607
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 2: most profound political turnaround that I can ever ever recall.

608
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 2: And you know, you've been shot in their head and

609
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: that bullet it could have been just a little to

610
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: the left, I guess, to the right, and can you

611
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: imagine the place our nation would have been if that

612
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: would have happened. But regardless, though, I hoped that we

613
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 2: this created an opportunity to do big things and different things,

614
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: And quickly I discovered that, yeah, the vast majority of

615
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: the thing he's going to do weren't the kinds of

616
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: choices I wouldn't have made to be in that situation,

617
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 2: because you know, to understand that kinds of a you know, death,

618
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: whether it's because of a medical one for me or

619
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 2: in an assassin I took that in and that's one

620
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I did that.

621
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: Did he seem affected? How did it change him? What

622
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: did he tell you about that?

623
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 2: I mean, who wouldn't be impacted by when you get

624
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: shot in the head and they the only reason you're

625
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: alive is because it missed it missed.

626
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 3: Being fun for What did he tell you about that?

627
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: No, of course not. I'm not going to talk about that.

628
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 2: That must have been, you know, one of the worst

629
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: moments in his life, you know, Like I mean, if

630
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: he would have brought it up, I could, but I'm

631
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 2: certainly not going to bring that up. I mean, that's

632
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: a basic courtesy for me, because that happened in my state.

633
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: I was thirty minutes away when it happened, and I

634
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 2: was just, oh my god. You know, and after we've

635
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: seen what happened to Charlie Kirk and cand you imagine

636
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: if it was that same kind of a terrable thing

637
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 2: if it was him. I mean, Charlie Kirk's assassination royaled

638
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 2: the nation. Imagine if that was President Trump. Imagine what

639
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: that would have done for our nation overall. And thank

640
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 2: god that did not happen. And I didn't agree with

641
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 2: many things of Charlie Kirk, but it was entirely appropriate

642
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 2: to allow people to grieve and give people that respect

643
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: and the space to do that, and not take that

644
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: opportunity to push an argument or to remind people that

645
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: a father of young children was shot in public because

646
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: of his political views and that's a tragedy and give

647
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: people the space to grieve.

648
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: Having said that, I'm curious, do you think that flags

649
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,399
Speaker 1: should have been flown at half staff? Do you think

650
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: his body should have been flown on air force too?

651
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: Do you think he should have posthumously be given the

652
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: Presidential Medal of Freedom. I think some people felt that

653
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: was perhaps over the top in terms of mourning someone

654
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: like Charlie Kirk. How did you feel about that?

655
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: I'd say that that was his choice and his prerogative.

656
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 2: That was really entirely up to him.

657
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: Did you have any issues now in hindsight over some

658
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: of the things that Charlie Kirk said and some of

659
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: the rhetoric he during his life.

660
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 2: I didn't agree with much of it. I didn't closely

661
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: followed his specific kinds of views, but I did.

662
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure you learned about them after his death, though.

663
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: No, I haven't done a deep dive on it, you know,

664
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: I described I mean, we've all seen that terrible video,

665
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: perhaps if you've seen the actual video, I have, and

666
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: it's like appalling, and that's part of the political violence,

667
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: and from what I'm saying, it's like that's unacceptable and

668
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: engaging in a debate and views I strongly disagree on.

669
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: That's part of the American democracy, and for me, it's

670
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 2: that would never justify what's happened. And I just chose

671
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: not to take the opportunity to argue his views after

672
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: after children loft his father in the most violent public way.

673
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say the equivalent, the equivalent on

674
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 2: the left might be, say, mister Piker, I strongly disagree

675
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: with his views, but I would A'm appalled if something

676
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: like that happened to him. Oh my god. I mean

677
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 2: that's you know, like we have to disagree in better

678
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 2: ways where you know you're going to solve it by

679
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: shooting people. I think the appropriate way when someone is

680
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 2: publicly assassinated. I'm not checking their views. I'm saying we

681
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 2: should grieve and allow people to grieve and the kinds

682
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: of space that they deserve to do those things. And

683
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: I tried, I found like a left equivalent. In fact,

684
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: they used to debate each other. Hassan Piker someone that

685
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 2: I strongly disagree on his views, but he absolutely has

686
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 2: the right to have that conversations and not have to

687
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: risk being shut And it's like that's why they debated

688
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: each other because they're on the different side there. I

689
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: haven't done deep dives on both of their respective shows,

690
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,720
Speaker 2: but I'm saying, don't shoot people you disagree. Don't shoot

691
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 2: CEOs because you happen to have strong, warped views about

692
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: they're entitled to shoot a CEO of an insurance company

693
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 2: because you want to fight for fight. That's again, that's

694
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: definitely the wrong tactic to make a statement about healthcare.

695
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: Is shooting a father in the middle of a street

696
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: in New York. And now you know, people are dressing

697
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 2: up like Luigi and he's he got about over a

698
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 2: million dollars in legal defense. Now, so that's perverse because

699
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 2: if you shoot a person because of their job, it's like, hey,

700
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: the next one might be you or me or whoever

701
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: if you happen to disagree. And that's the wrong way

702
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 2: for our country to be. And that's why I refuse

703
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: those those kinds of rhetoric. Calling people those extreme things

704
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: extreme rhetoric makes it easier for extreme reactions or to

705
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: justify them.

706
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: I think some people might say Charlie Kirk's rhetoric was extreme,

707
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: you know. I think that's the conversation that happened. People

708
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: condemned political violence, but they also felt a great deal

709
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: of discomfort with his language, suggesting that these kinds of

710
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: words lead to violence. I'm just sharing my observations as

711
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: I saw the conversations unfold.

712
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: I think we agree that we probably didn't agree with

713
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 2: much of what he said, but I think I'm sure

714
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: we both agree that you shouldn't shoot people you know,

715
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: and you shouldn't execute them in public. And that's I

716
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: think that's two things must be true that free speech.

717
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm an absolute free speech guy, and you have the

718
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: right to say these things, and you definitely also have

719
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: the right not to get shot by sharing your views.

720
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little more about your book and the

721
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: time we have left, Senator. It is incredibly raw and transparent,

722
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: particularly about your mental and physical health. You didn't need

723
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: to write a book like this, and I'm curious why

724
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: you decided to be so radically honest and put so

725
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: much of your own story out there.

726
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,400
Speaker 2: Oh thank you for that phrase, radically honest, because the

727
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 2: only reason to do it is if you're going to

728
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: be honest. And for me, I think it's an important conversation.

729
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: I know it may not be a big political win

730
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: to talk about these topics but millions of American I

731
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: know suffer from that. And appropriately on Veterans Day where

732
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: we're talking eighteen veterans take their lives every day eighteen.

733
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: And I think I was the first public official to

734
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: talk about suicide and I strongly, strongly considered that because

735
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: that's the danger of depression. And I know people have

736
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: been there. I lost people that I cared deeply through

737
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: suicide and they've left young children or grandchildren and it's heartbreaking.

738
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: And now that's that message is stay in the game.

739
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: And after winning the biggest election in the cycle, that's

740
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: actually when depression really really hit. And then I started

741
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 2: to have some of the darkest conversations and trying to

742
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: describe to people. I'm not an expert, I'm not in training,

743
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: but I have experienced that awful, awful sickness and I

744
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 2: don't want this for you, but if someone is in that,

745
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: it's like, stay in the game and keep it as

746
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: simple as you can, because the lie of depression is

747
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: that the best solution is to take yourself out, and

748
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: that is the awful choice you can't ever come back from.

749
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: And you not only talk about your depression, but obviously

750
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: the stroke that you suffered and how that all transpired.

751
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: It was in twenty twenty two. You'd launched your second

752
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: campaign for Senate and four days before the primary, you

753
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: were on your way to a campaign event when your

754
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: wife Gizelle, noticed your mouth was drooping slightly. Can you

755
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: share with us what unfolded from there?

756
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely. I was on my way to a campaign

757
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: at Millersville University and I literally just went into a

758
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: sheets If you're not familiar with like a sheets, it's

759
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: like a gas station and a food place. You know,

760
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, Pennsylvania really would know that I was in

761
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: going to the bathroom. And I walked out and I

762
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,399
Speaker 2: sat in the car and Giselle said, my god, you're

763
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: having a stroke and half of my face apparently, and

764
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was drooping. And thankfully I was

765
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: in Lancaster and they have an incredible facility, and that

766
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: was we actually drove directly to the hospital and those

767
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 2: doctors quite literally saved my life. And I actually had

768
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 2: the opportunity to shake his hand and meet him and

769
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: I got to actually give him a hug for saving

770
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: my life. And if that would have happened at one am,

771
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: I would have never woke up or that could have

772
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: happened in a remote part of Pennsylvania during the campaign,

773
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have survived. Probably, So that's how it. No

774
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: one knows when they're living their last fifteen minutes. And

775
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 2: at that point, walking into a men's room at sheets,

776
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 2: I was, and I had no idea, and that was coming.

777
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,879
Speaker 1: The fall of twenty twenty two was brutal. You were

778
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: still recovering from the stroke. As the campaign heated up,

779
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: mehmet Oz's team attacked you relentlessly. You write that their

780
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: ads got into your head, that you began to believe

781
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: some of the insults, and that if the deadline to

782
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: drop out had been in September instead of August, you

783
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: would have Can you take us back to that time, Senator,

784
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: and tell us the kind of pressure you were under,

785
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 1: both physically and mentally, and how that led into your depression.

786
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: I was attacked relentlessly and called all kinds of terrible,

787
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: terrible names, and now I had to make a choice,

788
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: are you able to recover to be an effective candidate?

789
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: And actually the last day to withdraw was my birthday,

790
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 2: August fifteenth, and by that point, all the polls and

791
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: everything in our campaign, we were I guess that pull

792
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: tracker that five point thirty eight had us about an

793
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: eighty four percent chance of winning. And things were going

794
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 2: really well, and I continued to get better, so I

795
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: stayed in it. But then the absolute blow torch turned

796
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: on in September and the one hundred million dollars of

797
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: paid media and everything immediately hit and that all hit

798
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: all at once, and that was incredibly intense. And then

799
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 2: that that was part of the breakdown. And then I chose,

800
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: I chose to have a debate, and I knew that

801
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:58,919
Speaker 2: would be rough.

802
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about that debate, Senator, because that was rough,

803
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: and I'm curious how you experienced it in real time

804
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: and how you dealt with the aftermath.

805
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: Plenty of people were saying, that's crazy, just just you know,

806
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 2: you know, duck. I mean plenty of time people, duck.

807
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 2: But I said, hey, I'm not afraid of I'm not

808
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 2: afraid of it. This is an honest assessment of where

809
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 2: we're at, and I don't have any regret. After that,

810
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: I was convinced that that might be it. And I'm

811
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: sure many many Democrats were just, oh my god, what

812
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 2: happened here? And that's and yeah, I absolutely own probably

813
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: the worst political debate in American history.

814
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: You're right, Simply quoting my words does not do justice

815
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: to just how awful the moment was. Nobody knew where

816
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 1: I stood on the issue. I look bewildered, hardly someone

817
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: on the road to recovery. The clip would be played

818
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: over and over and over, popping up seemingly everywhere in

819
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: my sleep, and the shower and the car on the sidewalk,

820
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: where everyone you passed was whispering it. That must have

821
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: been so hard. How did you stay in the race.

822
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: How did you convince yourself that you just had to

823
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: hang in there and that you had to dig deep

824
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: and find resilience and not be defeated by that performance.

825
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the way we designed that the debate was

826
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 2: that was October twenty fifth, and the election was effectively

827
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: two weeks later. And then after that debate, we continued

828
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 2: to campaign, and at that point I became convinced that

829
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: it was going to slip away after that, and that's

830
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: that was part of part of the pressure. And that's

831
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: when you can spend over one hundred million dollars and

832
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 2: say terrible things. And also the right online war machine

833
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 2: absolutely kind of bar down and because that was the

834
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 2: most important race and everybody needed to hold that seat.

835
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

836
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

837
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

838
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. You've

839
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 1: been so transparent about your health, about your stroke, Senator,

840
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: about the depression you experienced, but in some ways it's

841
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: been turned against you. On one hand, people might argue

842
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: the public has a right to know about the fitness

843
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: of an elected official. How do you draw the line

844
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: between fair accountability and unfair intrusion? Do you think there

845
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: is a line, or do you think it's the public's

846
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: right to know everything about a politician's health.

847
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean that's really up to voters to decide.

848
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: It's not up to me to decide. And that's why

849
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: I was absolutely transparent, and that's why I chose to

850
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: do a debate, and I put myself in front a

851
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 2: debate that I can't imagine millions of people were watching.

852
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 2: You know, like, that's about as transparent as you could

853
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 2: possibly be. Knowing that was going to be a rough moment,

854
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: I didn't show up thinking, oh, yeah, I can win.

855
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 2: I mean, doctor Oz is an incredibly capable communicator. I

856
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 2: mean he lives on TV. I mean he made his

857
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 2: career on that. I mean you know that, so of course,

858
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 2: and I might have assumed that's how it would go.

859
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: But that's about being transparent, and that's why I able

860
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: to have own it and have this conversation and a

861
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: part of this book, because after surviving all of those things,

862
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: most people would have been elated after winning, but I

863
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: got so beaten down. And they even put up a

864
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: gigantic billboard as I drive into my hometown, you know,

865
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 2: with a terrible picture and everything. I couldn't get away

866
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 2: and my parents couldn't get away from it on all

867
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: the channels, everywhere online, my kids and their social media feed.

868
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 2: And then finally, after winning that I didn't expect to

869
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: even win, I turned on myself, and that's why I

870
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: decided that probably the best solution is to take my life.

871
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: That's right.

872
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: In fact, you're incredibly open in the book about your

873
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: darkest moments, even writing about contemplating suicide by jumping off

874
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: the rank and bridge when your depression was at its worst.

875
00:53:55,680 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: Was that difficult to write? And looking back on it now, Senator,

876
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: are you surprised at how bad it got?

877
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: It's difficult, but it affirms I am really the luckiest

878
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 2: guy alive. You know, it was this was the paradox that,

879
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: you know, after dying medically after the stroke and able

880
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: to survive, then I decided that, you know, like I

881
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 2: almost took myself out after surviving the stroke. And that's

882
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: that is dark and it's not easy to talk about,

883
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 2: but it's important to talk because that's why I'm begging

884
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 2: people that are in that same place. After you just

885
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 2: won the biggest race, I consider jumping off a bridge.

886
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 2: I plan these kinds of a thing, and it's like,

887
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 2: that's quite a paradox. And I see these things happen,

888
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 2: like the young man that played for the Dallas Cowboys,

889
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: he had his first NFL touchdown and he shot himself,

890
00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 2: and it's like tragic, tragic. Every suicide is an individual

891
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 2: tragedy and all the lives that are touched by that.

892
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: That's why we have to have this conversation. There's an

893
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: absolute epidemic in our nation for that depression is bipartisan.

894
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: You know, it doesn't check. Hey, are you a Republican?

895
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 2: Are you rural, Are you urban? Are you you liberal?

896
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 2: It's like that happens to anybody. So that's where I'm

897
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: having this conversation.

898
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:30,320
Speaker 1: This book is really for people who might be experiencing

899
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: some of the darkest moments of their lives as you did,

900
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: and to talk to them about the way out of

901
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,879
Speaker 1: this kind of deep depression and finding the will to live.

902
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, my children saved my life, without a doubt,

903
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: they save They saved my life. And when someone told

904
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 2: me that your children, you know, needs their daddy, and

905
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: then that really that woke me up. That woke me up.

906
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: One of the young staffers, you know, she just kind

907
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 2: of stepped out of role and she said, you know,

908
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: your kids need their daddy. And that really because I

909
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: didn't want to meet with them because I as they

910
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 2: assumed they were ashamed of me or they didn't want

911
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 2: me anymore. And then I met with them, and I

912
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 2: found out that they did love me and they need

913
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 2: me back in their lives, and that really spontaneously got

914
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 2: me out of it. And that was my gift. That

915
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: was the emergency break. And I cannot ever have a

916
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:36,240
Speaker 2: legacy of suicide to be the solution for my children.

917
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: When they have struggles in their life, well, then if

918
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 2: dad did that, that must be the right thing. I

919
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,040
Speaker 2: cannot allow that to be my legacy. And that's part

920
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 2: of the tragedy of the people that I know of.

921
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: They've left children and grandchildren, and that's not a judgment.

922
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 2: My heart breaks for them. I got lucky, and that's

923
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 2: why this conversation is to hope that there is one

924
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: less people more that chooses that the right thing is

925
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,280
Speaker 2: to take their own life. And if a US senator

926
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 2: can make that choice, or a player in the NFL

927
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: can do that, or veterans regardless, that's an important conversation

928
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: because to experience it and live with that awful, awful

929
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 2: kinds of feelings. I don't want that for anybody. And

930
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 2: I try to be a voice or a resource to

931
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: someone like Okay, I promised to I promise to keep

932
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: myself in this game. And I've had conversations with members

933
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 2: of Congress and parents with their and their kids, you know, staffers,

934
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: other people, and they've taken strength or inspiration from that.

935
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: I never really thought that voice would penetrate, but it did,

936
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 2: and if it did, you know, it's an honor. It's

937
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: an honor to affirm that it's always, always, always the

938
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 2: wrong choice to take your life, and depression is awful,

939
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 2: and it's the lie to convince you the best solution

940
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 2: is having a world without you. And I think I

941
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: was the first person to ever talk about it as

942
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: a public official, and I remember after that President Biden

943
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: actually shared that he had a moment in life where

944
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 2: he considered to take his life. And that's important too,

945
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: to have people in these positions to say, hey, this

946
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: is very human and it must be you, and it's

947
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: okay and things will get better.

948
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: Do you think as a senator, I'm just curious, is

949
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: there more that can be done in terms of national

950
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: policies to provide more support to people who are going

951
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: through the kind of depression you experienced and other mental

952
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: health challenges. Is there enough being done?

953
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: I sure hope so, and I want to be a

954
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: part of every conversation about it. And I'm trying to

955
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: create conversations about this because I've had people reach out

956
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 2: since this book come out or immediately after when I've

957
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 2: been having these interviews. I know politically it's not necessarily

958
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 2: a winner, but I think it's honest, and I think

959
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 2: a lot of people that haven't shared it publicly would

960
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 2: know that they face these same kinds of circumstances, and

961
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: the one choice you can't ever recover from is taking

962
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: your life. People all know that have had a serious

963
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 2: attempt to take their lives by jumping off a bridge.

964
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,919
Speaker 2: One hundred percent of those people spontaneously realized, oh my god,

965
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 2: this is a mistake. I want to live. I want

966
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 2: to live, and now they were able to survive, and

967
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 2: that spontaneously cured that depression, and they realize that awful

968
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: choice that you've just made.

969
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: You've really been through it, Senator. Your list of medical

970
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: issues is long, A minor stroke, a trial relation, cardiomyopathy,

971
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: clinical depression. I'm curious if you continue to receive regular

972
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,560
Speaker 1: medical treatment for your depression and other health issues, and

973
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: how you would describe your current physical and mental shape.

974
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: Well, there's just nothing but good great news. Now I'm

975
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 2: proud to say that my heart functions at a fully

976
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: normal normal function. I don't suffer from those things that

977
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: I describe in that, and I use a pacemaker, and

978
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: I don't have a fib anymore. And aphib was the

979
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: thing that I inherited from inherited from my father and

980
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 2: In May of twenty three, my father collapsed in the kitchen.

981
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 2: I got that awful call in my office. He was

982
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: on a ventilator for a month, and I had to

983
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 2: stand by his bed, and then I have what kind

984
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 2: of the stress my experience is that part of it

985
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 2: having to watch all of these attack ads and then

986
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 2: having to visit my father sitting by his bed, you know,

987
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 2: like I visualized if I was sitting aside the bed

988
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 2: of my son, if he was it could be dying.

989
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: Has that contributed to that eventually? Uh? And and that's

990
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 2: that's that's heartbreaking. But he made a full recovery, which

991
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: is remarkable. And one day we turned to each other

992
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 2: and said, we both should be dead, and we both

993
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: are the luckiest guy alive, and we just can only celebrate,

994
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 2: you know, to be here right now and affirm just

995
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 2: it might sound trite to to appreciate life, but I

996
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 2: think Warren Zvin, uh, you know, enjoy every sandwich in

997
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: that way. And I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy my life. And

998
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 2: I am so grateful and in the middle of how

999
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: devices our politics are and how terrible that it is,

1000
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: I want to find a way forward and to be

1001
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 2: a voice. I don't know if that's the winning lane,

1002
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: but it happens to be my lane, and I've lost

1003
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 2: the taste to just be. You say these kinds of thing.

1004
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: It comes from a place of deep, deep gratitude because

1005
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: I should be dead. I should be dead, and I've

1006
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 2: got a second chance by surviving a stroke that I

1007
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 2: guess technically did take my life, but I came back

1008
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,919
Speaker 2: and I was able to overcome the choice to even

1009
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: take your own life. And that's why I'm paying this forward.

1010
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 2: And I don't have any grudges. I just I really

1011
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 2: wanted to say thank you for every opportunity and to

1012
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: be the voice through an epidemic and a scourge here,

1013
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: and to be the kind of voice in politics in

1014
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 2: the middle of this that we really should. And we

1015
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: have forgotten that we need each other, and it's getting

1016
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: more and more difficult to remember that we need each

1017
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 2: other and we all live together. And I know people

1018
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: and love people that voted for President Trump, but that

1019
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that doesn't mean that they're terrible. It just

1020
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 2: means we have to find a way to work together

1021
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: and get along. And America will celebrate Thanksgiving and we

1022
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: all will be in close proximenity to people. So that's

1023
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: you know, people are three dimensional, it's not just how

1024
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 2: they happen to vote, and that's a way forward. And

1025
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: describing my own death both medically and you know, suicide

1026
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: is an important conversation, but also having a conversation of

1027
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 2: why I chose to break cloture, you know, and now.

1028
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm touched by that story that you

1029
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: referenced online that her husband is suffering in such a

1030
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: terrible way. It's part of the tragedy, but it's like

1031
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: the solution means that we can all find a way

1032
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 2: to work together on things as difficult as it is.

1033
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: How have you been able to manage your depression? Obviously

1034
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: this is something that doesn't sort of magically necessarily go away.

1035
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: Any advice for people who are struggling in terms of

1036
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: not being afraid of medication and therapy, et cetera.

1037
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: Well, I'm saying, like, I don't know what your path

1038
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 2: could be, Try find whatever's available. And as long as

1039
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: you promise yourself that you're you're going to stay in

1040
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 2: the game, you know you can, you can emerge, and

1041
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 2: you don't have to believe the lie of taking yourself

1042
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: out and that's that's my advice, honestly, and with depression

1043
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 2: for me, like I've been just the way I've been

1044
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 2: able to rebuild my heart, I've also haven't suffered from

1045
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 2: the kind of depression. And after in this deeply deeply

1046
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 2: divided time, I find it affirming. Why It's like it's

1047
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 2: an honor. It's an honor to be a voice for Pennsylvania.

1048
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: And if I've disappointed some of my fellow Democrats for that,

1049
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 2: I'm truly sorry, But I don't judge them on their views,

1050
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 2: and I hope they would for the same level of

1051
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 2: respect for mine. But reminding people, as a Democrat, as

1052
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: a ninety percent Democrat voter, we are allowed to have

1053
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,840
Speaker 2: different views because we need to be a big tent

1054
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 2: Democrat in order to win the big elections. And that's

1055
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: where we are. And I am absolutely rooting for the

1056
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 2: mayor of New York. I don't agree with many of

1057
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 2: his views, but that's an important city, it's a beautiful city,

1058
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 2: and it's like I want him to be successful, and

1059
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 2: that's that's where we are. We can we have to

1060
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 2: agree to get a way forward, regardless of their political views.

1061
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 1: Given everything you've been through, Senator, I'm amazed that you've

1062
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: decided to stay in politics, a line of business that

1063
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: you yourself describe as sometimes poisonous. How do you find

1064
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 1: the strength and resilience to continue to fight when it

1065
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: has been such a blood sport and probably not the

1066
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: healthiest line of work for someone like you.

1067
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's like, uh, you know, you have interviews

1068
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:16,479
Speaker 2: with NFL players and they will ask them the question,

1069
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 2: would you want your sons playing in the NFL, and

1070
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 2: increasingly more and more saying no, no, I wouldn't. I

1071
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 2: wouldn't now, I wouldn't recommend that. And thankfully none of

1072
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 2: my own children are they haven't been bit by that bug.

1073
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: But I would recommend anybody that it is. It's increasingly

1074
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: becoming a contact sport, and people often forget one of

1075
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 2: the accelerants of social media. And if you drop something

1076
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: online and call people and say rough things, it touches

1077
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: people because there's a there's a name attached to that

1078
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 2: screen and they absorb those things. And that I did

1079
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: the mistake of reading throughhol those you know, after the election,

1080
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: and yes there were terrible things said, but it was

1081
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 2: the volume of it, you know, just millions of views

1082
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 2: or millions of things, And I'm like, where did this

1083
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 2: come from? You know, for someone that I had different

1084
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 2: views than you, and the kinds of hate and the

1085
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 2: wishes for your death and for those things. Have we

1086
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 2: just kind of lost ourselves in a way. And that's

1087
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 2: part of the important conversation where if if you receive

1088
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 2: some kind of a relief to say something like that online,

1089
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 2: but I promise you it doesn't make our nation more

1090
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 2: just or safe. That's actually helping destroy our democracy too,

1091
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 2: not different than a lot of these destructive kinds of

1092
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 2: choices that I don't support that have happened during under

1093
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. So for me, it's like it's a person,

1094
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 2: it's a person attached and if you wouldn't want that

1095
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 2: for you, I wouldn't say anything on social media that

1096
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say to somebody in person right right now.

1097
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 2: And I think that's a good rule because it's it's

1098
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 2: hard to say things if you sit down or talk

1099
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: to them and say, okay, we can agree or we

1100
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,120
Speaker 2: can disagree on these things without saying these things. And

1101
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 2: we all have to remind I do too, I mean

1102
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 2: all these things. It can get intent sometimes, but we

1103
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: can't forget that humanity because it really does impact people,

1104
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 2: especially children. Truly truly heartbreaking things. Are children that are

1105
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 2: bullied into suicide. Oh my god, that's just awful. One

1106
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 2: of the children, one of the children's parents that reached out.

1107
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 2: I met with him fifteen years try to to kill

1108
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: himself twice. He was in a hospital and I'm like,

1109
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 2: you know, please, I beg you on that. So for me,

1110
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,720
Speaker 2: we got to be kinder to people because it has

1111
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 2: an impact, because it had an impact on mine. And

1112
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 2: I don't think it should have taken personal, but it

1113
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: feels very personal when people spend the time to jump

1114
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 2: on their phone and just unload on a person that

1115
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 2: you probably never even met them in person. So that's

1116
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 2: the truth. That's the truth. And unlimited money. Unlimited money

1117
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: in our politics is part of also the indictment. When

1118
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 2: somebody can accrue one hundred and twenty million dollars to

1119
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:15,600
Speaker 2: absolutely destroy your reputation and create a carpet bombing, absolutely

1120
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 2: annihilate your reputation and say things that have no basis

1121
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 2: in reality, that's perfectly legal, and that's what's to be expected.

1122
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 2: And my race, my race was around three hundred and

1123
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars. That was the most expensive other than

1124
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 2: non presidential and that was quickly eclipsed. Ohio was over

1125
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 2: half a billion dollars. Half a billion dollars to absolutely

1126
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 2: pulveright someone else's reputation that are largely not even based

1127
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 2: in reality. Unlimited money is really the true cancer on

1128
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 2: our democracy. Eliminate that, you remove a lot of the

1129
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:01,759
Speaker 2: poisonous influences, because unlimited money means unlimited venom is coming

1130
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 2: and it's going to continue to escalate, you know, whether

1131
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 2: it comes from podcasts, or whether it becomes TikTok, whether

1132
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 2: it comes from Facebook, all those things. They are continuing

1133
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 2: to find more and more ways to help break and

1134
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 2: destroy a person based on different political views. If I

1135
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 2: have a wish, if I could be a king, if

1136
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 2: I could make one simple choice, I would I would

1137
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 2: undo Citizens United, and that that's the thing that opened

1138
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 2: up unlimited money, and that would profoundly change American politics

1139
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 2: spontaneously if I was king. That's the simple most thing

1140
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 2: to change American democracy is to remove remove the unlimited money.

1141
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: It sounds like this book in some ways is a

1142
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 1: plea for us to restore our own humanity. It's your

1143
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 1: story it's about your journey, but it's also kind of

1144
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 1: a message to the wider population.

1145
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I think it's been worth it

1146
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 2: to me because I've had people reach out saying, you know,

1147
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 2: that this conversation has saved their life or that's made

1148
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 2: them feel better in their life where they chose to

1149
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,360
Speaker 2: get help, and Tavia, that's really the point of it.

1150
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 2: And my voice and my vote is consistent to the

1151
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 2: values that I've always had before the stroke. Now trying

1152
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,640
Speaker 2: to explain her, or to describe to people why I

1153
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 2: chose to to be I mean, the media was putting

1154
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 2: the effect of the wanted posters, you know, the eight

1155
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 2: damns you know here it is like hanging up in

1156
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 2: the post office kind of you know. And I know

1157
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: all of them, and I know the eight ones that

1158
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 2: did that. They are deeply honorable, patriotic people and they

1159
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 2: happen to disagree, and that doesn't make them bad people.

1160
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: And you might be disappointed, but we believe that there

1161
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 2: was no exit ramp that wasn't going to drop our

1162
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 2: nation into deeper, deeper kinds of chaos, especially the people

1163
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,320
Speaker 2: that are deeply touched by that, whether they're on snap

1164
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 2: or they are not getting paid going on for a

1165
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 2: month and a half. So that's been that's been my message.

1166
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 2: And having them all converge at the exact same time.

1167
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 2: That's where I am. And I am grateful to be

1168
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,680
Speaker 2: able to have this conversation. And yeah, I don't want

1169
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 2: to dwell in that, but I just what I've learned

1170
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 2: is that I can only emerge as profoundly grateful.

1171
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: Well, John Fetterman, you've been so generous with your time.

1172
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: Thank you for having this long conversation with me. The

1173
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: book is called Unfettered, and I think it will help

1174
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and as you said, it already has,

1175
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: so thank you for writing it and thank you for

1176
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: talking with me about it.

1177
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 2: No, thank you for spending you were very generous with

1178
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 2: your time. I dedicated the book to those people in

1179
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 2: that struggle, people in the throes of depression that are

1180
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 2: considering it, and I beg people to not make the

1181
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: one mistake you can't come back from. So thank you

1182
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 2: for allowing me to have this conversation on your platform.

1183
01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:00,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you're welcome. Thank you, Senator. I'll let you get

1184
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 1: back to all the stuff you have to do. The

1185
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 1: vote happened right now, we're waiting for the House.

1186
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 2: Uh correct, Yeah, Uh, there's a statutorial where the earliest

1187
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:15,640
Speaker 2: time they can do that is tomorrow night. And to

1188
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 2: be clear, it is not guaranteed, it is not it

1189
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 2: is not h We are not living in normal times,

1190
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 2: we all agree, and something very very abnormal could happen.

1191
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 2: And one of the things abnormal was this solution that

1192
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 2: came up. You know, I didn't know that I found

1193
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 2: out that, Hey, something reached. I assumed. I assumed this

1194
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 2: was the recess. I mean, you know, you know, technically

1195
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 2: we shouldn't even be here, but here we are. Because

1196
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 2: so I wish, I wish that that the solution sticks.

1197
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,440
Speaker 2: But if it doesn't, but I'd like to remind everybody

1198
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 2: everyone that's listening that was as angry or disappointed that

1199
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 2: we reopened the government, we will have the same opportunity

1200
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: to do this in January. So it's a long slow

1201
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 2: We're not even to the first year of the Trump

1202
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 2: presidency and that's four years. So that's why I'm begging

1203
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,479
Speaker 2: people that it's like, we have to find a way

1204
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 2: forward and the election. The election is coming in less

1205
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,679
Speaker 2: than a year, and that's where we are, and that's

1206
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:18,799
Speaker 2: where my values and voice will remain.

1207
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:24,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

1208
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,639
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

1209
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

1210
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

1211
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

1212
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

1213
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

1214
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:52,639
Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

1215
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:57,759
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1216
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

1217
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,759
Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app, or visit

1218
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

1219
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Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

1220
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01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:24,639
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Speaker 1: the clocks back. This fall, Bristol Meyers Squib is recognizing

1224
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Speaker 1: oncologists who help give patients something extraordinary more time. The

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Speaker 1: time Back campaign celebrates those everyday heroes who are working

1226
01:15:38,920 --> 01:15:42,679
Speaker 1: tirelessly in the pursuit of potentially helping get patients more

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Speaker 1: time to experience key moments like seeing a child learned

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Speaker 1: to ride a bike or a long awaited vacation. As

1229
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: we turn back our clocks, let's pause to thank the

1230
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:57,599
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