WEBVTT - America's Changing Labor Landscape 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.200 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:08.039 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, we talk 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.600 a lot about the tightening labor market, the Jolts survey, 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:13.400 of course, and the way that people are thinking about 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:15.560 the great resignation. There's so much going on when it 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.160 comes to today's employment picture. Working Nation, by the way, 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.320 founded by the former vice chairman of akam I Technologies. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.480 We're talking about our builder. It's a not for profit. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.479 It's looking for solutions to the nation's changing labor needs. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.080 We've got a perfect guest. She is the president of 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.520 Working Nation. She's Jane Oh. It's former U S Department 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.159 of Labor official. She served as Assistant Secretary for the 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.600 Employment and Training Administration during the Obama administration. She also 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:40.560 was a former teacher and she joins us in her studio. Welcome, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:42.440 Thank you so much, Carol, nice to be here. Well, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.599 it's great to have you here. And you guys are 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:49.040 looking for solutions to really help others, you know, figure 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:54.240 out better ways to figure out their labor needs um 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.600 or make sure that they are current in terms of 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.680 what are the labor needs of today? Tell us about 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.680 what you think are because there are so many different 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:04.920 conversations that are going out about the labor force. Tim's right, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.320 great resignation, we're talking about hybrid, We're talking about you know, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.080 people just saying I've had enough, I'm going to do 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.000 it differently. What are the trends that you think that 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.080 really stick with us? So look, I think you have 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.400 to look at the great resignation and remember that people 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.520 are really examining their lives. They're trying to get a 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:24.960 better balance. But also if you just stop and think 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.280 for a second, I mean, I don't want to I 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:29.360 don't want to minimize four point four million people in 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.960 the last Joultry Report quitting series high. No exaggeration there, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.160 that's that's a gigantic number. What are they quitting for 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.800 more pay or just more flexibility or something else? I 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:41.800 think some a little bit of everything. But for the 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.679 biggest chunk I think are the class of twenty and 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.440 the class of twenty one. Think about that. If you 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.960 have a sister or a cousin, a neighbor who graduated 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.040 from a four year or graduate program in twenty or one, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.920 they couldn't find a job right in especially the labor mark, 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.360 it was flat, so they went out and got something 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.560 that was beneath their qualification, something that you didn't need 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:09.519 their degree for. I think this is them adjusting a lot, 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.640 not that the whole four point four million, but a 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.720 lot of it is that those two classes from high 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.079 school to associate's degree to bachelor's degree and beyond them 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.800 adjusting and going after a career instead of just a 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.720 placeholder job. That is a really interesting take. That's not 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.040 that one that I've thought of. So in a sense, 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.240 we're going to see turnover be high because of that, 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.080 at least at a for a very short period of time. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:33.680 But you think it will kind of go back to 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.120 where things traditionally are. I think it will go back 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.640 to where we you know, to something who knows what 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.000 the new normal is going to be. But I definitely 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.520 think that those two bulk groups of people had a 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.320 lot to do with the gigantic number in September. I 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:48.959 want to ask you, this is something that Carol brings 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.960 up all the time, the idea of people who perhaps 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.680 will not return to the labor force after the pandemic. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.960 When we do get to the other side of this pandemic, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.480 how should we be thinking about the definition of full 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:03.720 employment or all the jobs recovered, uh that we lost 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.440 during the pandemic. And Kathleen Hayes, who follows the economy, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:08.679 who's much smarter than me, that on this I said, 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.320 I think it was like two million people have just 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:16.000 said I resign, I'm done. That's a disproportionately women. Yeah, 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.640 and disproportionately if you take the women out and look 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:24.360 at the full population, disproportionately workers outside of prime age 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.200 fifty five and older, and a lot of them are 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.880 having terrible times finding jobs and they're just deciding they'll 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.280 live on their savings. They're not going to make it. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.800 You know. If there are men and women who were 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.760 basically you know, maybe semi retirement but saying I had 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.000 a job as working and then the pandemic hit and 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.480 they're just like, I'm done. I've got investments, I've got 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.160 a pension. If they're lucky, markets done pretty well, markets 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.400 downe really well, right, and just said I'm done well 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.360 a lot of them. What I like is they're going 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.680 to nonprofits. Like there's this really cool nonprofit based in 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.600 l A called Encourse them and it encourages people who 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.360 have like math skills in their careers to come back 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.320 and teach middle school and high school math. I love 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.839 the program, and I think there's programs like that all 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.560 over the country where these fifty five and olders who 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.200 do have the money to retire are going back and 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.360 taking a second career with a nonprofit where money isn't 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.880 an issue. They can work for less dollars. Well. And 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:20.680 you know, we've also talked about and I've been working 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.000 on something on our Bloomberg media side where it's it's 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.000 women who are also starting their own businesses. We're seeing 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:30.119 first of all, entrepreneurship startups at record levels, but women 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.080 in particular, Like I've had it with the corporate culture, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.520 I don't have the flexibility I need. I'm not getting 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.480 the recognition. Corporations still don't get women and saying I'm 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.320 going to do it on my own. No. I think 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.600 that's exactly right. And I think, you know, people sometimes 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:47.039 trivialize that and say, oh, it's baking cupcakes and going 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.040 on Etsy. It's much more than that. A lot of 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.559 women are really out there starting service kinds of things, 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.279 helping people. You know, you think about how much we 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.200 all are dependent on scheduling. There's a lot of women 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.080 out there who knew how to schedule in the corporate world, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:03.520 and they're going to go out and help other people 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:04.839 and they're gonna make a lot of money doing it. 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:06.599 Mersa Freeman and I'm giving a little tease of a 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.480 Bloomberg Media event that we're doing, and she said, you know, 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.880 corporations don't understand women have one calendar and this whole 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.120 idea of that your work calendar or personal calendar. It's 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.800 not like this I separate these things. No, we are 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.520 kind of the oldimate multitasker, and we've got to figure 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.719 out how it all works in one calendar and folding 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:27.120 your kids calendars right, like little weak practices and play dates, right, 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.159 This is all part of our lives. Education it has 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.359 been supposed to be the great leveler, right, the great 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.240 opportunity for so many, But I think increasingly it's safe 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.080 to say that education has gotten so expensive that it 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.440 once again is kind of helping to widen the gap. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.839 Even though a lot of academic institutions provide scholarships and 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.440 so and so forth. Still I think it's really problematic 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.520 for a lot of people in terms of access. You're 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.000 a teacher, like you understand the importance of education. How 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.840 do we need to maybe disrupt education and maybe at 0:05:57.839 --> 0:05:59.800 all levels, but I'm also thinking about the higher you know, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.479 education level. Well, I think all education, post secondary education 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.760 institutions should be really nervous. Three consecutive years of enrollment decline, 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.800 the public is starting to vote with their feet. I 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:16.160 think the answer is embedding. Embedding industry recognized credentials into academics. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.080 Not anymore making it an either or, but saying you 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.120 need to have digital skills. Whether you're a poetry major 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.840 or a comparative religion major, you need to have digital skills. 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.120 So let's embed those credentials into your academic curriculum. What 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.320 role does the government need to have when it comes 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.800 to paying for higher education, Well, they need to in 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:36.920 the K twelve space, they need to keep up with 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.320 special education i d e. A Funding, and they need 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.880 to continue funding low income kids through Title one. In 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.039 post secondary education, they have always really just on pell 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.200 grants and amazing help to the poorest, you know, to 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.360 make sure that education at any level is more affordable. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:55.400 I think they may need to put a little bit 0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.840 more money into institutional aid right now because so many institutions, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:07.960 particularly smaller institutions, rural institutions, tribal colleges, HBCUs Uh, they 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.080 really got hit. Their tuition dependent most of them don't 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.480 have large endowments like the schools you think of. You know, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.200 we may need to help them. All right, we're gonna 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.880 come back with Jane Oh. She's President Working Nation, former 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.640 Assistant Secretary of Employment and Training during the Obama administration. 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.960 Our conversation will continue right here on Bloomberg Business Week. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.400 Jane Oates is with as president of Working Nation. She's 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.400 former Assistant Secretary for the Employment and Training Administration during 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.040 the Obama administration. A former teacher, as we mentioned earlier, 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.480 she's still with us in our interactive broker studio. All Right, 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:38.840 I just want to give a taste of some of 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.760 the conversation we've been having when it comes to higher 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.400 education colleges. Does it make sense that they're eight dollars 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.560 a year? And I know there's great educational institutions out there, 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.840 but holy moly, I know it's sounds like you're paying tuition. Carol. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.200 I am welcome to parents paying tuition, and I I 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.640 appreciate academia, I really do. I think it's a great 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.640 envire for kids where they can just kind of go 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.440 and study things. But I do wonder about you know, 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.000 how many people it's not really accessible. And I know 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.080 that there's assistance at the lower end, but there's a 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.480 lot of people in the middle who I feel like 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.600 it's tough. Well I think maybe, yeah, I think the 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.080 middle class is getting frozen out of college. You know, 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.120 they can't really the pell grant isn't there for them. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.240 They they make a little bit too much money, or 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.200 they don't have enough kids, and they can't they're not 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.400 the the A plus student in the class, so they're 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.880 not getting academic or or sports scholarships. They're they're caught 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.199 with nothing. So that's another thing. There's lots of sports scholarships, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.640 forgive me, but there's not a lot of academic scholarships anymore, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.840 which is like, what, Yeah, it's really hard. I think. Look, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:43.080 if you're going to go to a research one, a 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.480 lot of the money from that institution has to go 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.800 into doing research. And thank God for that, right, I mean, 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.079 that's why we have the vaccines that we have, it's 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.440 why we have the health improvements we have, it's why 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.520 we have the new industry standards that we have quite frankly, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.920 but I think you know, the tier below research one 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.559 has kept up with the research ones in terms of tuition, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.320 and I think the public is now saying why. I mean, 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:11.040 they're great employers. They colleges pay great salaries to their faculty, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.880 which they should, and have great benefits packages. But they're 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:16.680 not going to be open. I think we're gonna see 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.880 a lot of colleges sadly. It breaks my heart to 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.240 say this not be able to make it. They made 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.400 it through the pandemic because the administration gave them money 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.000 to stay open. Then now so many of them are 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.640 just really struggling. That's like a p s A for 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.880 you to give money to your alma mater. Maybe, though, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.040 I mean if people feel like they have a connection 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.920 to it, yeah, well wait a minute. When there is 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.600 there endowments that are billions and billions of dollars, So 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:45.160 is it a place for learning and education or is 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:47.480 it a financial company all of a sudden, Yeah, I 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.720 think Look, I think that's valid. But to be honest 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.640 with you, probably only ten percent of the colleges have 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.000 an endowment like you're talking about. They're the names that 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.400 you would recognize the Ivy leagues, the great you know, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.920 state flagships and things like that. The majority people go 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.520 to smaller colleges that some people haven't even heard of, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:09.120 that are fabulous institutions where they're getting great educations. What 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.120 they have to do is start to parlay that into 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.400 something connected with work so that middle class kids go 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.560 there and say, here's what I'm going to spend. I 0:10:17.559 --> 0:10:19.400 hope it's not eighty thousand, but if it's going to 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.000 be fifty thousand at the very least, what's my r 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.280 O I? What what am I going to get in 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.400 terms of turning next? I'm sorry, my you're what's my 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.680 return on investment? You know? Am I getting attachment to 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.320 an employer? Am I getting a paid internship? Even if 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.599 it's something that's not paid, like am I want to 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.400 go into like I did policy, I'd like to get 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.560 an internship on the hill. Is the school helping me 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:45.400 get make that kind of connection, then that's a return 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.080 on investment. So what's the best way for somebody who 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.839 perhaps is in college right now or will be graduating 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.960 soon to to think about how they can find something 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.840 or study something that will be applicable to them throughout 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.640 their careers. Well, I would say anybody should take pull up, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.240 you know, a minor in something like data analytics, some 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.400 kind of something to give them data visualization. They don't 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.160 have to major in it if they don't want to, 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.760 but they need to get familiar with it. And really, 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.560 I can't say enough. They should be out there getting 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.040 work experience. The people at the college, most of them 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.240 went and got their PhD s straight through and didn't 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.640 work outside of academia. They can't really help them figure 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.640 out the world of work. They need to get out 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.480 there and figure it out on their own. What are 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.520 companies what's the role of companies more specifically in terms 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.960 of making sure that we have the right workforce for 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.880 the future demands. I think there's some companies out there 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.280 that are doing amazing things. I'll pivot from what I 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.920 was just saying, students should look at internships. I can't 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.480 believe the growth in paid internships in corporate America. You 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.200 know some companies that have been doing it for a 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.960 long time. We have a great internship program. I was, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.040 you know, I was gonna say, how many interns does 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.120 Bloomberg have? He's always been about this, But you know, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.480 Lockheed Martin, I mean and and Lockheed Martin. When west 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.000 Bush was there. He's been going about eighteen months now, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.240 but I mean when he was there, they did about 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.600 eight percent of their new hires came from their intern pool. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.480 That's a really good thing for kids to know. But 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.840 I think other college I think of other businesses. You know, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.120 you probably had Nick pinchuk on from snap one. They 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.640 Snap one has been great in the lower end careers, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.320 you know, kind of a blue collar skilled trades kinds 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.480 of things. He pays for material at colleges. He put 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.560 together a program called NC three that has a training 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.440 program for the community college faculty that are doing automotive 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.319 so that it's quality controlled across every college. It's fabulous. 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.160 What about though, making sure? I mean I say this 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.199 as a parent, like to my daughter, and you want 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:46.560 to come back and live in New York City, it's 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.880 an expensive place to live. You've grown up a certain way, 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.960 you like, you know, like you need to think about 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.040 your income. And I hate to say that because I 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.440 was lucky enough to do something I love, you know, 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.440 and things have worked out pretty nicely. But what what's 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.719 the response. It's ability to have companies to make sure 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.960 that they have the future workforce and provide internships, but 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.920 also pay more than a living way. It's like, where 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.880 are we on that? I think we still have a 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:12.920 lot of work to do there. I mean, I think 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.640 entry level, why not share the wealth? Well, I agree 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:17.120 with that, but I mean I think a lot of 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.280 people see entry level workers as expendable. You know, there's 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.120 big name companies that have come out and said we 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.520 think we get everything out of a worker in three years. 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.240 So if they want to leave no loss to us, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.960 that's a bad That is really a And you notice 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.960 I'm not naming them on your show, but I mean, oh, 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.440 if you could see the level above my head anyway, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.760 go ahead, you know, but if they would invest in people, 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.199 give them the money up front. I mean this whole 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.920 the COVID experience of people getting signing bonuses. Don't give 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:52.280 me a signing bonus, give me a step up in salaries. Yeah, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.840 that's exactly right, Jane. What about labor unions? How does 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.280 that fit into the conversation that we're having right now. Well, 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.480 full disclosure, I'm a big proponent of organized bur When 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.080 I was a teacher, I was a member of a 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.800 f T. I think They give workers voice, you know, 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.880 and people only get They only notice labor unions when 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.360 there's a strike, and certainly we've had horrible strikes with 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.680 John Deer and Kellogg right now that have created great 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.680 supply chain issues. So I understand people's concern, but labor 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:22.960 unions force a table conversation between workers and employers, and 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.200 workers can be as hard headed and negative as employers 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.040 can be. They bring them to the table and really 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.120 create an environment where we're investing in each other. So 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.400 when we talk about talent shortages or your own you know, 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.840 make your entry level worker into your mid management person. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.240 And labor unions really have done that beautifully, not just 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.920 in construction and manufacturing. Now you know, they certainly did 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.000 it in teaching, but now we're starting to see, uh, 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.840 you know, the the organization that's the fastest organized is 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:58.160 the cannabis sector. I mean, talk about that's really pretty 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.040 cool because that's let workers are across the whole spectrum, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.280 people growing, people manufacturing, people selling. It's really cool. Thank 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.160 you so much. This was really terrific. Comeback anytime. It 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.360 was productive conversation. Jane notes she's president of Working Nation, 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.440 former Assistant Secretary Employment and training in the Obama administration. Yeah, 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:20.000 please come back soon. Uh, just some really good things 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.360 to think about. My mind is still spinning with Tim Statin, Beckam, 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.520 Carol Masser. This is Bloomberg Radio.