1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, we talk 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: a lot about the tightening labor market, the Jolts survey, 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: of course, and the way that people are thinking about 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: the great resignation. There's so much going on when it 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: comes to today's employment picture. Working Nation, by the way, 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: founded by the former vice chairman of akam I Technologies. 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: We're talking about our builder. It's a not for profit. 9 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: It's looking for solutions to the nation's changing labor needs. 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: We've got a perfect guest. She is the president of 11 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Working Nation. She's Jane Oh. It's former U S Department 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: of Labor official. She served as Assistant Secretary for the 13 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: Employment and Training Administration during the Obama administration. She also 14 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: was a former teacher and she joins us in her studio. Welcome, 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Carol, nice to be here. Well, 16 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: it's great to have you here. And you guys are 17 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: looking for solutions to really help others, you know, figure 18 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: out better ways to figure out their labor needs um 19 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: or make sure that they are current in terms of 20 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: what are the labor needs of today? Tell us about 21 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: what you think are because there are so many different 22 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: conversations that are going out about the labor force. Tim's right, 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: great resignation, we're talking about hybrid, We're talking about you know, 24 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: people just saying I've had enough, I'm going to do 25 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: it differently. What are the trends that you think that 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: really stick with us? So look, I think you have 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: to look at the great resignation and remember that people 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: are really examining their lives. They're trying to get a 29 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: better balance. But also if you just stop and think 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: for a second, I mean, I don't want to I 31 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: don't want to minimize four point four million people in 32 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: the last Joultry Report quitting series high. No exaggeration there, 33 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: that's that's a gigantic number. What are they quitting for 34 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: more pay or just more flexibility or something else? I 35 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: think some a little bit of everything. But for the 36 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: biggest chunk I think are the class of twenty and 37 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: the class of twenty one. Think about that. If you 38 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: have a sister or a cousin, a neighbor who graduated 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: from a four year or graduate program in twenty or one, 40 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: they couldn't find a job right in especially the labor mark, 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: it was flat, so they went out and got something 42 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: that was beneath their qualification, something that you didn't need 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: their degree for. I think this is them adjusting a lot, 44 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: not that the whole four point four million, but a 45 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: lot of it is that those two classes from high 46 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: school to associate's degree to bachelor's degree and beyond them 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: adjusting and going after a career instead of just a 48 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: placeholder job. That is a really interesting take. That's not 49 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: that one that I've thought of. So in a sense, 50 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: we're going to see turnover be high because of that, 51 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: at least at a for a very short period of time. 52 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: But you think it will kind of go back to 53 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: where things traditionally are. I think it will go back 54 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: to where we you know, to something who knows what 55 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: the new normal is going to be. But I definitely 56 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: think that those two bulk groups of people had a 57 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: lot to do with the gigantic number in September. I 58 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: want to ask you, this is something that Carol brings 59 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: up all the time, the idea of people who perhaps 60 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: will not return to the labor force after the pandemic. 61 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: When we do get to the other side of this pandemic, 62 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: how should we be thinking about the definition of full 63 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: employment or all the jobs recovered, uh that we lost 64 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: during the pandemic. And Kathleen Hayes, who follows the economy, 65 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 1: who's much smarter than me, that on this I said, 66 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: I think it was like two million people have just 67 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: said I resign, I'm done. That's a disproportionately women. Yeah, 68 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: and disproportionately if you take the women out and look 69 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: at the full population, disproportionately workers outside of prime age 70 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: fifty five and older, and a lot of them are 71 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: having terrible times finding jobs and they're just deciding they'll 72 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: live on their savings. They're not going to make it. 73 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: You know. If there are men and women who were 74 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: basically you know, maybe semi retirement but saying I had 75 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: a job as working and then the pandemic hit and 76 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: they're just like, I'm done. I've got investments, I've got 77 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: a pension. If they're lucky, markets done pretty well, markets 78 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: downe really well, right, and just said I'm done well 79 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: a lot of them. What I like is they're going 80 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: to nonprofits. Like there's this really cool nonprofit based in 81 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: l A called Encourse them and it encourages people who 82 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: have like math skills in their careers to come back 83 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: and teach middle school and high school math. I love 84 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,839 Speaker 1: the program, and I think there's programs like that all 85 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: over the country where these fifty five and olders who 86 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: do have the money to retire are going back and 87 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: taking a second career with a nonprofit where money isn't 88 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: an issue. They can work for less dollars. Well. And 89 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: you know, we've also talked about and I've been working 90 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: on something on our Bloomberg media side where it's it's 91 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: women who are also starting their own businesses. We're seeing 92 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,119 Speaker 1: first of all, entrepreneurship startups at record levels, but women 93 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: in particular, Like I've had it with the corporate culture, 94 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: I don't have the flexibility I need. I'm not getting 95 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: the recognition. Corporations still don't get women and saying I'm 96 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: going to do it on my own. No. I think 97 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I think, you know, people sometimes 98 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: trivialize that and say, oh, it's baking cupcakes and going 99 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: on Etsy. It's much more than that. A lot of 100 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,559 Speaker 1: women are really out there starting service kinds of things, 101 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: helping people. You know, you think about how much we 102 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: all are dependent on scheduling. There's a lot of women 103 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: out there who knew how to schedule in the corporate world, 104 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: and they're going to go out and help other people 105 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: and they're gonna make a lot of money doing it. 106 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: Mersa Freeman and I'm giving a little tease of a 107 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Media event that we're doing, and she said, you know, 108 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: corporations don't understand women have one calendar and this whole 109 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: idea of that your work calendar or personal calendar. It's 110 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: not like this I separate these things. No, we are 111 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: kind of the oldimate multitasker, and we've got to figure 112 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: out how it all works in one calendar and folding 113 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: your kids calendars right, like little weak practices and play dates, right, 114 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: This is all part of our lives. Education it has 115 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: been supposed to be the great leveler, right, the great 116 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: opportunity for so many, But I think increasingly it's safe 117 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: to say that education has gotten so expensive that it 118 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: once again is kind of helping to widen the gap. 119 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: Even though a lot of academic institutions provide scholarships and 120 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: so and so forth. Still I think it's really problematic 121 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: for a lot of people in terms of access. You're 122 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: a teacher, like you understand the importance of education. How 123 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: do we need to maybe disrupt education and maybe at 124 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: all levels, but I'm also thinking about the higher you know, 125 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: education level. Well, I think all education, post secondary education 126 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: institutions should be really nervous. Three consecutive years of enrollment decline, 127 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: the public is starting to vote with their feet. I 128 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: think the answer is embedding. Embedding industry recognized credentials into academics. 129 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: Not anymore making it an either or, but saying you 130 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: need to have digital skills. Whether you're a poetry major 131 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: or a comparative religion major, you need to have digital skills. 132 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: So let's embed those credentials into your academic curriculum. What 133 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: role does the government need to have when it comes 134 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: to paying for higher education, Well, they need to in 135 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: the K twelve space, they need to keep up with 136 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: special education i d e. A Funding, and they need 137 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: to continue funding low income kids through Title one. In 138 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: post secondary education, they have always really just on pell 139 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: grants and amazing help to the poorest, you know, to 140 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: make sure that education at any level is more affordable. 141 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: I think they may need to put a little bit 142 00:06:55,400 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: more money into institutional aid right now because so many institutions, 143 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: particularly smaller institutions, rural institutions, tribal colleges, HBCUs Uh, they 144 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: really got hit. Their tuition dependent most of them don't 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: have large endowments like the schools you think of. You know, 146 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: we may need to help them. All right, we're gonna 147 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: come back with Jane Oh. She's President Working Nation, former 148 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: Assistant Secretary of Employment and Training during the Obama administration. 149 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: Our conversation will continue right here on Bloomberg Business Week. 150 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: Jane Oates is with as president of Working Nation. She's 151 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: former Assistant Secretary for the Employment and Training Administration during 152 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: the Obama administration. A former teacher, as we mentioned earlier, 153 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: she's still with us in our interactive broker studio. All Right, 154 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: I just want to give a taste of some of 155 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: the conversation we've been having when it comes to higher 156 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: education colleges. Does it make sense that they're eight dollars 157 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: a year? And I know there's great educational institutions out there, 158 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: but holy moly, I know it's sounds like you're paying tuition. Carol. 159 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: I am welcome to parents paying tuition, and I I 160 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: appreciate academia, I really do. I think it's a great 161 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: envire for kids where they can just kind of go 162 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: and study things. But I do wonder about you know, 163 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: how many people it's not really accessible. And I know 164 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: that there's assistance at the lower end, but there's a 165 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: lot of people in the middle who I feel like 166 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: it's tough. Well I think maybe, yeah, I think the 167 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: middle class is getting frozen out of college. You know, 168 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: they can't really the pell grant isn't there for them. 169 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: They they make a little bit too much money, or 170 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: they don't have enough kids, and they can't they're not 171 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: the the A plus student in the class, so they're 172 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: not getting academic or or sports scholarships. They're they're caught 173 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 1: with nothing. So that's another thing. There's lots of sports scholarships, 174 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: forgive me, but there's not a lot of academic scholarships anymore, 175 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: which is like, what, Yeah, it's really hard. I think. Look, 176 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: if you're going to go to a research one, a 177 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: lot of the money from that institution has to go 178 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: into doing research. And thank God for that, right, I mean, 179 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: that's why we have the vaccines that we have, it's 180 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: why we have the health improvements we have, it's why 181 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: we have the new industry standards that we have quite frankly, 182 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: but I think you know, the tier below research one 183 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: has kept up with the research ones in terms of tuition, 184 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: and I think the public is now saying why. I mean, 185 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: they're great employers. They colleges pay great salaries to their faculty, 186 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: which they should, and have great benefits packages. But they're 187 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: not going to be open. I think we're gonna see 188 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot of colleges sadly. It breaks my heart to 189 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: say this not be able to make it. They made 190 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: it through the pandemic because the administration gave them money 191 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: to stay open. Then now so many of them are 192 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: just really struggling. That's like a p s A for 193 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: you to give money to your alma mater. Maybe, though, 194 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: I mean if people feel like they have a connection 195 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: to it, yeah, well wait a minute. When there is 196 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: there endowments that are billions and billions of dollars, So 197 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: is it a place for learning and education or is 198 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: it a financial company all of a sudden, Yeah, I 199 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: think Look, I think that's valid. But to be honest 200 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: with you, probably only ten percent of the colleges have 201 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: an endowment like you're talking about. They're the names that 202 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: you would recognize the Ivy leagues, the great you know, 203 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: state flagships and things like that. The majority people go 204 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: to smaller colleges that some people haven't even heard of, 205 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: that are fabulous institutions where they're getting great educations. What 206 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: they have to do is start to parlay that into 207 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: something connected with work so that middle class kids go 208 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: there and say, here's what I'm going to spend. I 209 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: hope it's not eighty thousand, but if it's going to 210 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: be fifty thousand at the very least, what's my r 211 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: O I? What what am I going to get in 212 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: terms of turning next? I'm sorry, my you're what's my 213 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: return on investment? You know? Am I getting attachment to 214 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: an employer? Am I getting a paid internship? Even if 215 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 1: it's something that's not paid, like am I want to 216 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: go into like I did policy, I'd like to get 217 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: an internship on the hill. Is the school helping me 218 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: get make that kind of connection, then that's a return 219 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: on investment. So what's the best way for somebody who 220 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: perhaps is in college right now or will be graduating 221 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: soon to to think about how they can find something 222 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: or study something that will be applicable to them throughout 223 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: their careers. Well, I would say anybody should take pull up, 224 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, a minor in something like data analytics, some 225 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: kind of something to give them data visualization. They don't 226 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: have to major in it if they don't want to, 227 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: but they need to get familiar with it. And really, 228 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: I can't say enough. They should be out there getting 229 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: work experience. The people at the college, most of them 230 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: went and got their PhD s straight through and didn't 231 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: work outside of academia. They can't really help them figure 232 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: out the world of work. They need to get out 233 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: there and figure it out on their own. What are 234 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: companies what's the role of companies more specifically in terms 235 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: of making sure that we have the right workforce for 236 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: the future demands. I think there's some companies out there 237 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: that are doing amazing things. I'll pivot from what I 238 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: was just saying, students should look at internships. I can't 239 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: believe the growth in paid internships in corporate America. You 240 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: know some companies that have been doing it for a 241 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: long time. We have a great internship program. I was, 242 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: you know, I was gonna say, how many interns does 243 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg have? He's always been about this, But you know, 244 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin, I mean and and Lockheed Martin. When west 245 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: Bush was there. He's been going about eighteen months now, 246 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: but I mean when he was there, they did about 247 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: eight percent of their new hires came from their intern pool. 248 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: That's a really good thing for kids to know. But 249 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: I think other college I think of other businesses. You know, 250 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: you probably had Nick pinchuk on from snap one. They 251 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: Snap one has been great in the lower end careers, 252 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: you know, kind of a blue collar skilled trades kinds 253 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: of things. He pays for material at colleges. He put 254 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: together a program called NC three that has a training 255 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: program for the community college faculty that are doing automotive 256 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: so that it's quality controlled across every college. It's fabulous. 257 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: What about though, making sure? I mean I say this 258 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: as a parent, like to my daughter, and you want 259 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: to come back and live in New York City, it's 260 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: an expensive place to live. You've grown up a certain way, 261 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: you like, you know, like you need to think about 262 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: your income. And I hate to say that because I 263 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: was lucky enough to do something I love, you know, 264 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: and things have worked out pretty nicely. But what what's 265 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: the response. It's ability to have companies to make sure 266 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: that they have the future workforce and provide internships, but 267 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: also pay more than a living way. It's like, where 268 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: are we on that? I think we still have a 269 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: lot of work to do there. I mean, I think 270 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: entry level, why not share the wealth? Well, I agree 271 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: with that, but I mean I think a lot of 272 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: people see entry level workers as expendable. You know, there's 273 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: big name companies that have come out and said we 274 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: think we get everything out of a worker in three years. 275 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: So if they want to leave no loss to us, 276 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: that's a bad That is really a And you notice 277 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: I'm not naming them on your show, but I mean, oh, 278 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: if you could see the level above my head anyway, 279 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: go ahead, you know, but if they would invest in people, 280 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: give them the money up front. I mean this whole 281 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: the COVID experience of people getting signing bonuses. Don't give 282 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: me a signing bonus, give me a step up in salaries. Yeah, 283 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: that's exactly right, Jane. What about labor unions? How does 284 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: that fit into the conversation that we're having right now. Well, 285 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: full disclosure, I'm a big proponent of organized bur When 286 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: I was a teacher, I was a member of a 287 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: f T. I think They give workers voice, you know, 288 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: and people only get They only notice labor unions when 289 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: there's a strike, and certainly we've had horrible strikes with 290 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: John Deer and Kellogg right now that have created great 291 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: supply chain issues. So I understand people's concern, but labor 292 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: unions force a table conversation between workers and employers, and 293 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: workers can be as hard headed and negative as employers 294 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: can be. They bring them to the table and really 295 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: create an environment where we're investing in each other. So 296 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: when we talk about talent shortages or your own you know, 297 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: make your entry level worker into your mid management person. 298 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: And labor unions really have done that beautifully, not just 299 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: in construction and manufacturing. Now you know, they certainly did 300 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: it in teaching, but now we're starting to see, uh, 301 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, the the organization that's the fastest organized is 302 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: the cannabis sector. I mean, talk about that's really pretty 303 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: cool because that's let workers are across the whole spectrum, 304 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: people growing, people manufacturing, people selling. It's really cool. Thank 305 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: you so much. This was really terrific. Comeback anytime. It 306 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: was productive conversation. Jane notes she's president of Working Nation, 307 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: former Assistant Secretary Employment and training in the Obama administration. Yeah, 308 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: please come back soon. Uh, just some really good things 309 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: to think about. My mind is still spinning with Tim Statin, Beckam, 310 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: Carol Masser. This is Bloomberg Radio.