Speaker 1: This crowd rises to its being what Carl slammed it?
Speaker 1: Oh Carl, left wing reball, perfect.
Speaker 2: Pop, then a block, the shot at the rim, how
Speaker 2: with the left hand and of fowl. Welcome the Chasedown Podcast,
Speaker 2: part of the Calves media family. I'm your host, Justin Browan.
Speaker 2: The Chase Doown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming
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Speaker 2: Network without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try
Speaker 2: for free at foobotv dot com. Slash Calves. Well, it
Speaker 2: wasn't always pretty, but the Cleveland Cavaliers found a way
Speaker 2: to pull away against the Utah Jazz and and their
Speaker 2: losing streak. I'm feeling better finally get to see a win.
Speaker 2: It's always a little concerning. It seems like these afternoon
Speaker 2: games have given them trouble. But the Calves got the
Speaker 2: W and I'm I'm feeling w's right now because I'm
Speaker 2: joined by my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Speaker 3: Carter, how you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1: I'm glad we weren't soon beat against Uh That's all
Speaker 1: you can really ask for. A late season trip to Utah,
Speaker 1: especially for an afternoon Mattine game where the Cavs have
Speaker 1: not been playing their best ball in those settings, and
Speaker 1: with them playing their worst basketball the season, and you know,
Speaker 1: first off, way better to win than lose. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I feel like everything is solved
Speaker 1: as of yet. I still think there's stuff to get
Speaker 1: cleaned up. There's still some form questions, concerns I have
Speaker 1: a little bit. But like at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think they played their best game
Speaker 1: and they won by twenty nine points.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did not feel like this was a vintage
Speaker 2: Cleonton Cavaliers basketball win, right Like, I don't think that
Speaker 2: this was necessarily a return to form from the best
Speaker 2: versions of this team that we've seen. But what I
Speaker 2: will say is I did feel like from the start
Speaker 2: the defensive effort was there even when the shots weren't falling,
Speaker 2: and that hasn't consistently been the case. I think think
Speaker 2: we've seen at times that you know, the defensive effort
Speaker 2: falls off as.
Speaker 3: The shots aren't falling.
Speaker 2: You know, they're a little late on the rotations, the
Speaker 2: scrambles are half step slow. I felt even in the
Speaker 2: first half where Utah was able to hang around. The
Speaker 2: defensive effort was consistently there. Guys were you know, diving
Speaker 2: for loose balls, they were rotating, they were communicating, and
Speaker 2: if they're going to continue to go through a bit
Speaker 2: of this stretch, which we can get into later on
Speaker 2: whether or not we think this is going to continue,
Speaker 2: but reality is they have been on the road for
Speaker 2: a very long time. They haven't played in the same
Speaker 2: city twice since February twenty fifth, when they so they've
Speaker 2: been traveling between every single game. And I understand some
Speaker 2: of those games are at home, but when you're only
Speaker 2: there for an evening, it's just it's an extension of
Speaker 2: the road trip. At that point, you're never fully getting
Speaker 2: any rest. And I think that that nothing's coming out
Speaker 2: of the bags. Yeah, exactly right. I think Danny Cunning
Speaker 2: on Lockdown Cass has said basically over that stretch, they've
Speaker 2: had four nights at home, like that's that's nothing, right.
Speaker 2: So I do think that that is having an effect
Speaker 2: on these guys. I think it was big that they
Speaker 2: were able to win comfortably enough that a lot of
Speaker 2: the starters got to sit for you know, the end
Speaker 2: of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter. But
Speaker 2: I think fatigue is definitely a factor. But if you're
Speaker 2: going to be playing with some tired legs, if your
Speaker 2: shots aren't going to be following at the clip that
Speaker 2: we're accustomed to getting it done in the least, committing
Speaker 2: on the defensive end, I think is a step in
Speaker 2: the right direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just thought in general, the energy
Speaker 1: was a lot better. You know, I think there was.
Speaker 1: It's tough because this Utah team is in such rough shape.
Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot worse than they even
Speaker 1: were last year in terms of the guys they have
Speaker 1: on the floor. You know, no John Collins, no Lowry
Speaker 1: Mark and then and so you know, they're playing some
Speaker 1: guys that I just think, you know, Cody Williams ain't
Speaker 1: Jalen Williams, he ain't his brother, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I was trying to kind of identify the spots where
Speaker 1: it was like, are they giving up open shots and
Speaker 1: Utah isn't able to convert or are they locked in?
Speaker 1: And overall I think they were pretty locked in. I
Speaker 1: think that there were a few possessions where they certainly
Speaker 1: got they didn't have to guard as hard you know,
Speaker 1: like because you know, Utah had a lot of guys
Speaker 1: out there that maybe weren't the best shooters, you know,
Speaker 1: at different parts of their roster. But you know, the
Speaker 1: game is the game, and I think I think they
Speaker 1: played their opponent well, they played the scouting report well,
Speaker 1: they left the right kinds of guys open, they crashed
Speaker 1: down in the right spots. You know, they they forced
Speaker 1: eighteen turnovers, They had seven combined as a team at
Speaker 1: nine steals. That tells me at least the energy was
Speaker 1: going a little bit yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I had the eye roll when
Speaker 2: Walker Kessler hit a three three pointer in the first
Speaker 2: half because I was like, come on, seventeen percent three
Speaker 2: point shooter is going to go out there and start
Speaker 2: hitting shots on us. He ended up going one for eight,
Speaker 2: which is just under thirteen percent, So you know, he
Speaker 2: shot his career averages.
Speaker 1: Eight three point attempts. Is no comment.
Speaker 3: What that is is getting to explore the space.
Speaker 2: That is, Yeah, you know, we're not playing for wins here,
Speaker 2: Let's try to expand your game. Jared Jackson Junior got
Speaker 2: to do a lot of that last year, where.
Speaker 1: Hey, that Andre Drummond taking threes for us a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago.
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, hey, that.
Speaker 2: Was that was some fun basketball. Carter, don't don't you
Speaker 2: dare talk down on Andre Drumm and exploring the space.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there were definitely you know, as you said,
Speaker 2: whether it's Walker Kessler throwing up threes or some of
Speaker 2: the other options that they had, you're not going to
Speaker 2: need to close out on them the same way that
Speaker 2: you have to against Kevin Durant or Royce O'Neil. But
Speaker 2: I thought the overall defensive effort has been a lot better.
Speaker 2: Mobilely struggled in his first game back from injury. Defensively
Speaker 2: against the Clippers, I thought, even though the Suns game
Speaker 2: didn't go our away, I thought his defensive effort and
Speaker 2: impact was back. Kevin Durant pull up jumper it was crazy,
Speaker 2: which is just about the hardest thing you can do
Speaker 2: in basketball. That is one of the most difficult shots
Speaker 2: to defend period in the league.
Speaker 1: So and then Durant, by the way, answered with like
Speaker 1: nine pull up it's in response. It was like it
Speaker 1: was almost like oh okay, and he definitely wanted to
Speaker 1: get his back. And Kevin Durant is still very good
Speaker 1: at basketball.
Speaker 2: Yes, he is and you know, I just think that
Speaker 2: it's at least a foundation, right because for the most
Speaker 2: part the offense, those struggles have kind of continued. We
Speaker 2: haven't been hitting threes at the rate we're accustomed to
Speaker 2: another tonight, crazy like honestly, that that really goes to
Speaker 2: show that you're out of a rhythm, right when when
Speaker 2: you're even missing all the free throws, it's even when
Speaker 2: they get to the rim at times, it's they haven't
Speaker 2: been finishing the way that we're used to seeing. And
Speaker 2: I don't know what's if there's any one thing that's
Speaker 2: solely to blame for the rut that they're in offensively,
Speaker 2: but I do think at least getting the win, getting
Speaker 2: some of that confidence back, pulling away in the way
Speaker 2: that they did, can at least help gain some positive momentum.
Speaker 2: Which you know, basketball, whether it is within a game
Speaker 2: or if you're talking about an eighty two game season,
Speaker 2: it's a game and it's a season of runs. It
Speaker 2: is such a momentum sport, and sometimes you just need
Speaker 2: to see a couple of them go down for you
Speaker 2: to gain your confidence as a shooter. Sometimes you just
Speaker 2: need to get that one win to start rattling off
Speaker 2: wins again, So I hope that this can at least
Speaker 2: be a catalyst for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, I think it's also important for
Speaker 1: this team to kind of remind themselves that they don't
Speaker 1: need to shoot well to win. You know, I think
Speaker 1: they started leaning on that a little bit as a
Speaker 1: crutch of like, you know, Okay, if the three pointers going,
Speaker 1: we feel great. If the threes aren't going, maybe we
Speaker 1: don't feel so great. They shoot twenty three percent in
Speaker 1: this game. They go eleven of forty eight, which, man,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of three point attempts. I know, I
Speaker 1: know a lot of them were open, but you know,
Speaker 1: we're bored, We're we're pressing my comfort ability there with
Speaker 1: that much. It was literally half their field goal attempts.
Speaker 1: But you know, they go eleven of forty eight from three,
Speaker 1: they go thirty thirty three of forty eight from two,
Speaker 1: and they get to the room consistently. They're forcing turnovers,
Speaker 1: they're getting out and running, and they're winning and scoring
Speaker 1: in multiple ways. You know, it's really hard to score
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty points when you shoot twenty three
Speaker 1: percent from three and sixty eight percent from the free
Speaker 1: throw line.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it.
Speaker 1: Goes to show that there are a lot of roads
Speaker 1: up the you know, the proverbial mountain here, and just
Speaker 1: because you're not in great form as a shooter doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that you just have to shrug and be like, well,
Speaker 1: that's the only way. We just got to hope we
Speaker 1: make them, because like the Calves never made them in
Speaker 1: this game, and it didn't matter on you're just scoring
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty points.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that is my preferred way to go about this, right, Like,
Speaker 2: let's attack the rim. Let's try to if we're going
Speaker 2: to generate open threes, have it be because we're attacking
Speaker 2: the rim, the defense is collapsing, and we are generating
Speaker 2: quality looks Like, I don't want to settle for threes,
Speaker 2: and I do feel like the offensive process hasn't been
Speaker 2: as crisp as it has been throughout the season. I
Speaker 2: do feel like they are settling for threes. You know,
Speaker 2: not to pick on anyone in particular, but Sam Merril
Speaker 2: when he in the first half took a pull up
Speaker 2: kind of one on four or free in transition, it's
Speaker 2: a decent look. On nights where you have it rolling,
Speaker 2: I'm fine with that, but you have to value the
Speaker 2: shots is, particularly when you're overall in an offensive rut.
Speaker 2: I think you need to work to get better looks.
Speaker 2: And I was encouraged actually at the start of this
Speaker 2: game against Utah, where Donovan was really getting to the rim,
Speaker 2: he was getting to the rim at will. I thought
Speaker 2: that they were generating very, very quality looks. I thought
Speaker 2: Walker Kessler was having trouble defending in space, and I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, perfect, let's attack. Let's keep getting this,
Speaker 2: you know, let's force Utah to make us do something different.
Speaker 2: And I felt like we got ourselves out of that
Speaker 2: offensive rhythm. I thought after that start, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: we started going for that knockout punch. We started to
Speaker 2: take more threes without really working the ball and generating high,
Speaker 2: high quality looks, and I just felt like the offensive
Speaker 2: process overall wasn't as good as it could have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an eighty eight point five offensive rating in the
Speaker 1: second quarter where Utah kind of made their run back
Speaker 1: and Kavs went o nine from three. I didn't think
Speaker 1: they took the best threes, but I think the probably
Speaker 1: the most problematic thing is only three assists in that
Speaker 1: second quarter, So the ball kind of wasn't moving the
Speaker 1: way it was to start the game. The down downward
Speaker 1: momentum that kind of made it hard for Utah to
Speaker 1: stick with them kind of went away. They got more
Speaker 1: to side to side basketball, and you know, of course
Speaker 1: they just missed a lot, which is tough. But you know,
Speaker 1: like I do think, I do think you're right that
Speaker 1: this is still a team that's like kind of like
Speaker 1: and I think that's where both of us are kind
Speaker 1: of on. This is nice, but I do want to see,
Speaker 1: like we want to see some of the underlying performance
Speaker 1: metrics tick back up a little bit before we feel
Speaker 1: like they're out of the woods with this rough stretch
Speaker 1: of play.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I think part of how the Cavs
Speaker 2: are built lends itself towards being able to make these pivots, Right, Like,
Speaker 2: there are stretches where offensively, our identity is going to
Speaker 2: be centered around the guards, right, they are going to
Speaker 2: generate good looks for themselves, They're going to generate good
Speaker 2: looks for everybody else. We can really lean on them
Speaker 2: offensively when you're in ruts like this, and when you're
Speaker 2: in kind of this you know, long road trip, bit
Speaker 2: of a rock fight I'd like to see us lean
Speaker 2: more and more on the bigs, and I just felt
Speaker 2: like we haven't been consistently doing that over this stretch.
Speaker 2: And Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are able to generate really,
Speaker 2: really good looks for themselves. They are such intelligent players
Speaker 2: in space, in traffic, They're able to generate rim pressure
Speaker 2: in ways that you know, frankly, no one else on
Speaker 2: this roster is really able to do at that same level,
Speaker 2: even if it involves when you're in those one big
Speaker 2: configurations getting DeAndre Hunter as the role man and trusting
Speaker 2: him to finish or draw contact at the rim. I
Speaker 2: would just like to see us attack the rim more
Speaker 2: and not settle into well, this is our shot profile
Speaker 2: when everything's rolling, so let's almost speak it into existence.
Speaker 2: Let's take these same shots and trust that they're going
Speaker 2: to fall. I really feel like once you kind of
Speaker 2: get that rim pressure, once you challenge teams and they
Speaker 2: are changing what they're doing defensively to take that away,
Speaker 2: then you can start opening things up and taking those threes,
Speaker 2: and if it's not falling at that point, at least
Speaker 2: you can say, hey, they were really cheating to take
Speaker 2: away the rim. These were the looks that we were
Speaker 2: able to generate. We trust that these are going to
Speaker 2: fall at some point, but I don't feel like that's
Speaker 2: the case. I feel like we are the ones dictating
Speaker 2: our shot selection more than what the defense is doing.
Speaker 3: At this point.
Speaker 1: Well, I also, I don't know. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: how when you're slumping this hard as a team, shooting
Speaker 1: it does get break your brain a little bit, because
Speaker 1: when you do want to run your offense the way
Speaker 1: you normally run it and the defense collapses, you're supposed
Speaker 1: to kick it out right, and when you kick it
Speaker 1: out to an open shooter, they're supposed to shoot it.
Speaker 1: So and I feel like as they've been, you know,
Speaker 1: so icye teams have you know, I think the Calves
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot of open looks over these last
Speaker 1: five games, and I have noticed. I feel like, when
Speaker 1: you know, and I certainly feel like the Calves have
Speaker 1: done this when the other team clearly didn't have it,
Speaker 1: you're like, oh man, we really get to worry about
Speaker 1: the rem tonight, you know, and we get to collapse
Speaker 1: a little harder, because until they start killing us, why
Speaker 1: would we why would we? You know, the only place
Speaker 1: they're getting us is at the rim, so let's just
Speaker 1: protect the rim. And like, anecdotally that's what I feel
Speaker 1: like I've seen is like, man, well they're making you know,
Speaker 1: there are possessions where I'm like, yeah, they're getting in
Speaker 1: to the teeth, the defense collapses and then they have
Speaker 1: to kick it out and so that that's so I'm sympathetic,
Speaker 1: I guess, But like that's where I think your point
Speaker 1: about running things through the bigs and attacking differently is
Speaker 1: that's your skeleton key, that's your solution because you're at
Speaker 1: least like one. It's harder for them to dig down
Speaker 1: and help when it's Evan initiating or Jared catching it
Speaker 1: on the move, you know, and and finishing as opposed
Speaker 1: to you know, when those guys are catching the ball
Speaker 1: near the rim and getting the ball into scoring position.
Speaker 1: It's just an easier finished for them than Darius air
Speaker 1: Donovan because they're massive and those guys are small, right,
Speaker 1: So like, if there is extra help in that paint,
Speaker 1: the bigs are going to finish better than the Smalls
Speaker 1: against that extra help just you know, writ large, you know.
Speaker 1: So like I think that's why I've been disappointed to
Speaker 1: see them not go to the bigs as much, because like,
Speaker 1: change the rhythm of what you're doing when the base
Speaker 1: system isn't working, because one, you'll get stronger at those
Speaker 1: at those, you know, like where you let Evan just
Speaker 1: run the offense for a quarter, like your your group
Speaker 1: can kind of congeal about around that, and then it
Speaker 1: does change the rhythm for the guards. You know, if
Speaker 1: Donovan's pull up game is really not there, like giving
Speaker 1: him a bunch of catch and shoot attempts in a
Speaker 1: row probably goes a long way, like changing the rhythm
Speaker 1: of where these guys are catching it when the current
Speaker 1: rhythm is not leading to to makes. And this is
Speaker 1: all very soft, squishy stuff which is really hard to analyze,
Speaker 1: especially as like non players and non coaches, because like,
Speaker 1: we're not guys going through shooting slumps. You know, we're
Speaker 1: not coaching guys out of shooting slumps. So this is
Speaker 1: all very squishy and very theoretical, and you know, it's
Speaker 1: very possible any member of the coaching staff or player
Speaker 1: might listen to this, which they won't, but if they did,
Speaker 1: they might listen to this and shake their head and
Speaker 1: be like, these guys don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: But that's the challenge of dealing with performance dips like this,
Speaker 1: especially as shooters, because it's like, how do you break
Speaker 1: it out of it? Or do you just have to
Speaker 1: kind of white knuckle through it. I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. When the bass system isn't working,
Speaker 2: that's something that can just kind of break your brain
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. But sometimes it's nice to
Speaker 2: know even when the bass system isn't working, there's a
Speaker 2: backup system that's there supporting you. Carter, just like zoom
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Speaker 2: looking at the wide open looks that the calves have got.
Speaker 2: The UTAH data isn't in the mix yet, but at
Speaker 2: least for this four game the losing streak that preceded it,
Speaker 2: they were getting a decent number of wide open looks
Speaker 2: for the season. They take over twenty wide open threes
Speaker 2: per game where a defender is not within six feet.
Speaker 2: Over the losing streak, it was seventeen point five. They're
Speaker 2: shooting forty one percent on those looks for the losing streak,
Speaker 2: so you know, it's only one percent worse than they
Speaker 2: shoot on the season for those looks, but and it
Speaker 2: is three fewer, but they were getting a decent number
Speaker 2: of looks. I just feel like some of those semi
Speaker 2: contested the lake contest and just how they're getting to
Speaker 2: the shots hasn't felt as good as it has at
Speaker 2: other times.
Speaker 3: Of the year.
Speaker 2: And obviously, when your guards have been going through a funk,
Speaker 2: that's going to make things tough. I feel like Darius
Speaker 2: has mostly broken out of it. Tonight wasn't a great
Speaker 2: night for him, but he started to get hot, and
Speaker 2: then him getting hot him and Donovan getting hot in
Speaker 2: the third quarter basically put the game away, so they
Speaker 2: didn't get a chance to continue.
Speaker 1: How about Tye finally hitting a few that was big
Speaker 1: for Tye?
Speaker 3: That was tremendous.
Speaker 2: Honestly, ty Jerome and DeAndre Hunter both coming out there
Speaker 2: and having big games off the bench I thought was significant.
Speaker 2: I think that that is the kind of thing that
Speaker 2: you really need to have going If you're going to
Speaker 2: continue to have some success on this road trip and actually,
Speaker 2: you know, close it out on the right foot.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I mean I think, really you look at
Speaker 1: those the three guards, you know, because this team really
Speaker 1: has three guards that play now in Tye, Darius, and Donovan.
Speaker 1: Tye has gotten his numbers up a little bit. He's
Speaker 1: you know, he's up to forty six from the field
Speaker 1: and thirty one from three. Darius is at thirty nine
Speaker 1: from the field and thirty two percent from three, and
Speaker 1: Donovan is at thirty three percent from the field in
Speaker 1: sixteen point seven percent from three. He hasn't hit a
Speaker 1: three in his last two games. That's alved for the
Speaker 1: munch a month of March for these guys, and like
Speaker 1: there is a little bit of like an inherent like
Speaker 1: there's nothing to analyze here when those three guys are
Speaker 1: slashing that poorly collectively, they are the play initiators for
Speaker 1: this often for the most part. Yeah, And it's not like,
Speaker 1: you know, and we can make the Evan argument, and
Speaker 1: I still think we should that, Like we want to
Speaker 1: see Evan initiate more and run things through the bigs,
Speaker 1: but it's not like his usage is like cratered this
Speaker 1: month and they've stopped running the ball through him. We
Speaker 1: just are wanting it more because the other the alternatives
Speaker 1: don't feel as good as they normally do, right, Right,
Speaker 1: So like I yeah, it's just it's just a funky,
Speaker 1: funky time of year, which is not particularly mathematical. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Evan Evan's usage for the year is it twenty two
Speaker 1: point six? Looking it up live? Bear with me, Oh god,
Speaker 1: it's not loading. Justin it's over. It's over. I'll let
Speaker 1: you know, I'll let you know, Okay, hashtag I'm twenty
Speaker 1: two point eight. It's higher, higher in March than it
Speaker 1: has been for the year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because it when I look at this team,
Speaker 2: there's nothing that jumps out that like red flag sirens
Speaker 2: going off, like last year when I was very clear
Speaker 2: that Mitchell was moving around on one leg and Darius
Speaker 2: was the shell of himself physically and was kind of
Speaker 2: fading away, right, Like, there are times where there's just
Speaker 2: kind of boneheaded mistakes, Like some of the turnovers Darius
Speaker 2: has had over the stretch are just too ambitious. Right,
Speaker 2: You're dealing with guys that are mentally and physically tired
Speaker 2: and you are throwing a rocket pass through traffic, bouncing
Speaker 2: and you know, making it a very very difficult catch
Speaker 2: for someone like Jared Allen who's rolling to the basket.
Speaker 2: You can kind of tone that down and let's let's
Speaker 2: go for you know, a more higher percentage play. Like
Speaker 2: I liked him going off the glass, but nobody else
Speaker 2: was on that. See, nobody is on that wavelength, right,
Speaker 2: like those unforced errors. I think that you can do
Speaker 2: a better job of kind of mitigating. But for the
Speaker 2: most part, like when I see Donovan moving around, some
Speaker 2: of the misses are really bad, but he looks fine
Speaker 2: to me physically, Like, yeah, I think so too. And
Speaker 2: Kenny talked about that after the Sun's game, where it was, Hey,
Speaker 2: is that growing something that's bothering him? And he says that,
Speaker 2: as far as I understand, it's not. Our medical staff
Speaker 2: has given him the green light. This is just him
Speaker 2: working through some stuff. And I believe him, like they
Speaker 2: have taken such a cautious approach that if a guy
Speaker 2: is out there, I trust that they are not doing
Speaker 2: further damage to themselves. And I thought Donovan getting to
Speaker 2: the rim the way he did to start this game
Speaker 2: was a great sign in terms of how he looked physically.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. And by the way, speaking
Speaker 1: of audacious passes, was that baseball passed to struts in
Speaker 1: the corner the best pass Donovan Mitchell has ever thrown
Speaker 1: in his career.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's the best one that I can remember,
Speaker 2: at least in his recent play like that. That was phenomenal.
Speaker 2: That had sauce on it.
Speaker 1: And it wouldn't do like six people. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: That was the vision. The pace. I mean, if that's
Speaker 1: if that is a at ninety percent of the speed
Speaker 1: that he threw it, it's getting picked off and we're like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Donovan? Like that? It was such
Speaker 1: an audacious decision, and then to match it with an
Speaker 1: audate with like an audaciously like strong and paid you know,
Speaker 1: the pace on that thing was bananas. What a pass.
Speaker 1: That was amazing. Sorry, no, I don't have anything productive
Speaker 1: to say about it. It was just cool.
Speaker 3: What I liked about.
Speaker 2: This game for Donovan was, at least recently, as he's
Speaker 2: been going through this slump, it's felt like the SHOT's
Speaker 2: not falling and he's not helping in other ways right,
Speaker 2: Like he's actively you know, playing against the Cavs at
Speaker 2: some point. Then I wasn't surprised to see him take
Speaker 2: accountability after the Sun's game. That's one hundred percent what
Speaker 2: you expect from Donovan Mitchell from a leadership standpoint. But
Speaker 2: I felt like his bad games have felt really bad,
Speaker 2: whereas with this game. He didn't shoot well the three pointer,
Speaker 2: as you said, he hasn't made one in the last
Speaker 2: two games. But I thought he was hitting the glass.
Speaker 2: I thought he was active getting steals. I thought the
Speaker 2: passing was good. I felt like he was playing a
Speaker 2: good overall game. He just wasn't shooting well. And that's
Speaker 2: more reminiscent of what we saw when Darius was going
Speaker 2: through his slump, where okay, the playmakings there, at least
Speaker 2: in that stretch when the shot wasn't falling. Ironically, his
Speaker 2: assistant turnover ratio had been great and he's playing good defense.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to see from Donnay because you know,
Speaker 2: Portland's not a good team, but they're a team that
Speaker 2: has length. We've seen them good, you know, come down
Speaker 2: to the wire against the Cavs tomorrow. Kamara is someone
Speaker 2: that can be really, really disruptive defensively, so I'm going
Speaker 2: to be interested to see there's a very good chance
Speaker 2: that we have another off shooting night there can Donovan
Speaker 2: and can Darius find ways to make an impact even
Speaker 2: if the shot isn't falling in that matchup.
Speaker 1: One thing I do want to say, just you know,
Speaker 1: to kind of contextualize, you know, because you made the
Speaker 1: comment like Darius was you know, even when he was slumping,
Speaker 1: it felt like everything else was still you know, the
Speaker 1: cows were able to survive it because if he'd of
Speaker 1: all the other things he was doing, I would also
Speaker 1: argue they were able to survive it also because the
Speaker 1: rest of the team was in really good form.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: And the rest of the team is not in really
Speaker 1: good form right now. So it's like, you know, we're
Speaker 1: gonna feel a Donovan slump a lot harder when Darius
Speaker 1: is also at like not his best either, and Tie
Speaker 1: is not at his best. I mean, think about how
Speaker 1: many of those Darius games Tye just scored twenty four points,
Speaker 1: you know, or you know, or or Max went off
Speaker 1: or DeAndre Hunter got to thirty points. Like, the whole
Speaker 1: team just isn't in the best form right now. So
Speaker 1: I think that is an important piece of context to
Speaker 1: layer into the Donovan slump right now, is like he
Speaker 1: doesn't have the same level of insulation that the teams
Speaker 1: provide id other players on the team when they've not
Speaker 1: played their best this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really fair point. It's funny because I
Speaker 2: was looking at this game against Utah and I'm like, Wow,
Speaker 2: Calves had a sixty to thirty edge on points in
Speaker 2: the paint. They managed turnovers really well. And you know,
Speaker 2: as I'm building out the rundown for this episode, I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there, I'm like, this is the kind of stuff
Speaker 2: they need to do to raise their floor right, to
Speaker 2: mitigate bad shooting nights and give themselves a better chance.
Speaker 2: This is the stuff they weren't doing against Phoenix. And
Speaker 2: then I go back and I look at the game
Speaker 2: stats for Phoenix. I'm like, oh, hes actually won the
Speaker 2: offensive rebound battle, they won the turnover battle, they had
Speaker 2: more points off of turnovers, Cows outscored them points in
Speaker 2: the paint, they had five more steals, and yet the
Speaker 2: game still felt so bad, and some of that is
Speaker 2: due to how rough the second half or the first
Speaker 2: half was. I agree with Kenny Atkinson that I thought
Speaker 2: their defensive effort in the second half was a whole
Speaker 2: lot better, but at kind of the game stats and
Speaker 2: those type of you know, effort splits in things like that,
Speaker 2: and I was expecting them to be one way, but
Speaker 2: it was a totally different way. It really really caught
Speaker 2: me off guard.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of those things where it's like,
Speaker 1: where are those offensive rebounds coming from? Oh, so Igadaro
Speaker 1: and Ryan Dunn, you know a couple of rookies that
Speaker 1: are that are kind of outworking you, Cody Martin.
Speaker 3: Galt me on a two way contract, lighting you up.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I do think, like you can't forget where
Speaker 1: the Suns are as a team right now, and like
Speaker 1: I do think that was a frustrating loss. I do
Speaker 1: you think that their focus was poor and they were
Speaker 1: really counting. You know, it's like the kind of the
Speaker 1: worst thing where in that first half where you get
Speaker 1: you give up the open three and you don't close
Speaker 1: out hard, and then you shrug when it goes in
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, I don't tell you, brother, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't do any of the things that would make
Speaker 1: it not go in. So it's it's like even if
Speaker 1: it's a guy who normally wouldn't make it. You know,
Speaker 1: someone like Ryan Dunn, who's not a great shooter. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Like again, you didn't do anything
Speaker 1: that would make it hard for him. So, uh it
Speaker 1: gets really hard to you know, feel too bad for
Speaker 1: you that you're dealing with a high you know, a
Speaker 1: good shooting night from your opponent, Like shooting variants does
Speaker 1: not come out of the same uh, you know, is
Speaker 1: not always cut from the same cloth. And I felt
Speaker 1: like Phoenix really got whatever they wanted. And then by
Speaker 1: the time the Cavs took the game really seriously on
Speaker 1: the defensive end, it was just too big of a
Speaker 1: too big of a gap to cover and you were
Speaker 1: counting on Kevin Durant to miss contested shots and he
Speaker 1: might be the best contested shot maker in the history
Speaker 1: of the sport.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not only that, all of them were in
Speaker 2: a rhythm because you gave them such quality shots and
Speaker 2: they got to see it go in so many times, right.
Speaker 1: Like can I can I pick? Can I pick a
Speaker 1: knit strategically? And that from that game because it bothered
Speaker 1: me at the time and I was put in my
Speaker 1: back pocket. I know that the zone has been something
Speaker 1: we break out when things aren't working very well. We
Speaker 1: can't break out the zone against Kevin Durant. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1: He killed him. It's like the best light contest shot
Speaker 1: maker in the history of the sport. Probably, Like the
Speaker 1: difference between not guarding Kevin Durant at all at all
Speaker 1: and being a step or two late on the contest
Speaker 1: is probably more negligible than any player ever. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like that's what the zone does, you know, like you
Speaker 1: can't always contest everyone when you're trying to cover that
Speaker 1: much ground, or if he flashes to the middle and
Speaker 1: just catches and immediately jumps and shoots, Like, yeah, that
Speaker 1: was tough. And again, I just think there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things, you know, you know, strategically the actual execution.
Speaker 1: You know, they're not playing their best ball right now,
Speaker 1: Like at the end of the day, they're just not.
Speaker 1: And like I I'm definitely sympathetic of the staff trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to how to get them going,
Speaker 1: trying to pull some different levers to see what's going
Speaker 1: to motivate.
Speaker 2: They hold a Javonte Green one that we had theorized
Speaker 2: on the last podcast.
Speaker 1: Ye and and I like his minutes by the way,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I I think that you know,
Speaker 1: right now, this is the dog days and you're just
Speaker 1: trying stuff to see what sticks and what what gets
Speaker 1: people out of the funk. I mean, h Kenny Kenny
Speaker 1: mentioned it before this game, where he was getting ready
Speaker 1: to a big, challenging long practice to get out of
Speaker 1: the slump, and he's like, let's play horse instead. Let's
Speaker 1: just try to have fun, you know, because like we've
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot that you know, no matter
Speaker 1: how much he loved basketball, no matter you know, how
Speaker 1: good your team chemistry is, there's going to be a
Speaker 1: part of every season in a you know, with an
Speaker 1: eighty two games this season to your point, when you've
Speaker 1: been on the road every single day since February twenty
Speaker 1: fifth pretty much, or you know, traveling home and then
Speaker 1: traveling right back out since February twenty fifth, there is
Speaker 1: going to be a part every season where this is
Speaker 1: just a job, yep. And people don't like going to
Speaker 1: their jobs. You know, I don't like going to my job.
Speaker 1: If you get in, I like my job. But if
Speaker 1: you gave me the choice to stay home and still
Speaker 1: get paid, I'd normally I generally take that option, and like,
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, I think it makes sense
Speaker 1: that Kenny goes to, let's try just to inject some
Speaker 1: fun and some levity into this, to break up that
Speaker 1: this is a job monotony. And you know, who's to
Speaker 1: say if it worked, But they definitely gave a much
Speaker 1: better showing against Utah than they have against other teams
Speaker 1: that maybe weren't weren't strong either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly you know that that Sacramento game, in the
Speaker 2: Phoenix game, both of those, that's three games, four nights
Speaker 2: in three different cities, where you're traveling between all of those,
Speaker 2: you're leaving the arena at two am and you're just exhausted.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: I think we did a pretty good job at the
Speaker 2: start of the month saying hey, this is going to
Speaker 2: be tough. This might not be tough from a level
Speaker 2: of competition standpoint, but they are going to be.
Speaker 3: Traveling this entire month.
Speaker 2: I expect a rut to happen at some point here
Speaker 2: because this is just the kind of stuff. This is
Speaker 2: the grind of the NBA season that always catches up
Speaker 2: to guys. And I definitely found it was interesting that
Speaker 2: Kenny Atkinson went that route. I think it makes a
Speaker 2: lot of sense, you know it. It's just it's very,
Speaker 2: very difficult, right, And I've seen people say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: they're only playing thirty two thirty three minutes. This is
Speaker 2: less than last year, So how are they going to
Speaker 2: get tired? Try, like when they were a mental fatigue
Speaker 2: more than a physical fatigue. Right when you are traveling
Speaker 2: for you know, a month straight, try telling someone, hey,
Speaker 2: you played thirty three instead of thirty five. You're you
Speaker 2: should be fresh. No, Like, those two minutes aren't making
Speaker 2: a difference. You're still going through shooter and you're still
Speaker 2: doing your you know, the workouts, You're still going through
Speaker 2: your your post game routine of icing down and all
Speaker 2: the recovery stuff that you have to do, and you're
Speaker 2: never home. That's that's going to have an effect. So
Speaker 2: when I look at kind of the rest of this month,
Speaker 2: because it isn't until the end of the month that
Speaker 2: they actually have a stretch of games where they're at home.
Speaker 2: Right there, They're going to play the Clippers on the thirtieth,
Speaker 2: and then I think it's the Knicks on the Wednesday after,
Speaker 2: So you know, Sunday to Wednesday, they're going to be home.
Speaker 2: I expect them to look great in the next game,
Speaker 2: but finally getting two days off, you're at home the
Speaker 2: whole time, you're finally going to get a little bit
Speaker 2: of a rest. That first one back at home is
Speaker 2: always kind of tough, that that's almost an extension of
Speaker 2: the road trip.
Speaker 3: But until then, I don't.
Speaker 2: Expect them to really blow a team out in a
Speaker 2: dramatic fashion where you know, they shoot sixty percent from
Speaker 2: three and the ball is popping and we're getting those
Speaker 2: vintage cavalanches.
Speaker 3: I think that this is going to be a bit
Speaker 3: of a grind. I think they are certainly capable of.
Speaker 2: Winning the rest of these games, but I don't think
Speaker 2: it's going to necessarily be the most pretty basketball that
Speaker 2: we've seen.
Speaker 1: I have a question for you for this, you know,
Speaker 1: through the rest of this month, would you let's let's
Speaker 1: say they win out through the end of the month,
Speaker 1: would you rather see them acknowledging that we're probably not
Speaker 1: gonna have a ton of blowouts? Would you rather see
Speaker 1: them win one thirty to one twenty five or one
Speaker 1: ten to one oh five?
Speaker 3: Sorry, what was that first score?
Speaker 1: Thirty to one twenty five or one ten to one
Speaker 1: oh five, Like, would you like to see. You know,
Speaker 1: things aren't coming together, but like you know, but we're scoring,
Speaker 1: or things aren't coming together, but we're stopping.
Speaker 2: Mmm, I think scoring it's just more fun. I've got
Speaker 2: my my Fantasy finals next week. I had one this
Speaker 2: you know, this week, and I'm very upset because I
Speaker 2: to Darius and Donovan to get me more points and
Speaker 2: they and they just had to be pulled in the
Speaker 2: third quarter, which I get for.
Speaker 1: The greater the other way, I'm going the other way.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see them get I want if things
Speaker 1: aren't going to be easy for the rest of this month,
Speaker 1: I would like to see them hang their hat on.
Speaker 1: We're going to suck to play against, Like our legs
Speaker 1: are heavy on our jumper where jumpers were shorting everything.
Speaker 1: But damn it, if we're going to have a bad
Speaker 1: time on offense, you're going to have a bad time too.
Speaker 1: And like I do, I would kind of like to
Speaker 1: see that. Like I love that Utah only scored ninety
Speaker 1: one points tonight. That is a much more meaningful number
Speaker 1: than me than the one twenty in terms of assessing
Speaker 1: where the team's head is at. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess where I'm coming from is I look
Speaker 2: at Portland, I look at Detroit, I look at the Clippers.
Speaker 2: These are all physical, long teams that are able to
Speaker 2: play defense at a high, high level. If the Cavs
Speaker 2: are able to say, hey are three ball isn't falling,
Speaker 2: but we still found ways to go out there and
Speaker 2: score one twenty or one thirty points, that.
Speaker 3: Would feel really really good to me.
Speaker 2: That is, hey, not everything is working, but we are
Speaker 2: still an offensive juggernaut. And particularly when we're looking at
Speaker 2: can this offense finally translate to the postseason? Can they
Speaker 2: finally get over the hump and take the successes they
Speaker 2: have in a regular season to the postseason and establish
Speaker 2: themselves as legitimate contenders in the postseason. More proof of
Speaker 2: concept that they are able to find ways to get
Speaker 2: it done offensively in a variety of ways is going
Speaker 2: to give me confidence, because ultimately I trust that this
Speaker 2: team can play defense. I think that they're doing some
Speaker 2: things that make things a little too hard on themselves,
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, as you said, going to zone
Speaker 2: against the Phoenix Suns or going to the three guard
Speaker 2: look in that time unnecessarily. I think that that's things
Speaker 2: that you can change up in the postseason. I think
Speaker 2: that this team can defend at a high, high level
Speaker 2: when it matters the offense, that's going to remain a
Speaker 2: question until we actually see it. So continuing to at
Speaker 2: least get that positive reinforcement on on that end of
Speaker 2: the court, I think that makes it easier to play
Speaker 2: defense because the the offense is rolling, and it just
Speaker 2: makes me feel a little bit better. I guess the
Speaker 2: true answer there is that's where more of my insecurities
Speaker 2: lie as a fan on the offensive end versus the
Speaker 2: defensive end.
Speaker 1: That's fair and honestly, to your point, if they are
Speaker 1: scoring a one hundred and thirty a night for the
Speaker 1: next four or five games, me and Sterius or Donovan
Speaker 1: are playing really well generally like, that's that's a that's
Speaker 1: a truism, but you know, like and not necessarily figured
Speaker 1: something out and that that has not been clicking for them.
Speaker 1: So I get what you're saying, and then I'm going
Speaker 1: to move it to another macro question. If I may,
Speaker 1: we thought that a franchise record of sixty seven wins
Speaker 1: was all but a certainty just seven days ago going
Speaker 1: into that Orlando game. Now they have to finish ten
Speaker 1: and a one to get there? Do they get there?
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep the faith. I'm going to say yes.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be ugly. I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be scary, but yeah, I think that they
Speaker 1: get there. I think they go ten and one to
Speaker 1: close this thing out. I it's not a high high
Speaker 1: degree of confidence with it. I am disappointed that it
Speaker 1: is a question after that four game losing streak, but
Speaker 1: I think that they are capable of pulling that off.
Speaker 1: I think they're capable. They've responded unbelievably well to the
Speaker 1: swoons they've had this year. To your point, privately, to me,
Speaker 1: we went twenty one and one after our life's three
Speaker 1: game losing streak, so it's not like the team hasn't
Speaker 1: done it. But I'm gonna say we don't get there.
Speaker 1: I think I think we're gonna go eight and three
Speaker 1: or nine and two down the stretch.
Speaker 3: And ninety two. Yeah, I could see that, and uh.
Speaker 1: But boy, I don't know if the team's thinking about it,
Speaker 1: but I sure would love to see him get there.
Speaker 1: It would mean so much to like, I feel like,
Speaker 1: reclaim your dominance going into the postseason, as opposed to
Speaker 1: like a limp in you know, we just like I
Speaker 1: know that there's no rhyme or reason to this, and
Speaker 1: teams that limp into the postseason end up going on
Speaker 1: runs all the time. Teams that come into the postseason
Speaker 1: red hot get knocked out in the first round all
Speaker 1: the time, like I know, but like, just for the vibes,
Speaker 1: I would love to see this team rattle off two
Speaker 1: weeks of really strong play as we close out this
Speaker 1: regular season, well.
Speaker 2: Especially because they're going to be playing some tea that
Speaker 2: are really gunning for these wins, that really want to
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's part of the losing streak, right,
Speaker 2: we were playing teams that are desperate, that were playing
Speaker 2: with their seasons on the line. Well, the Cavs weren't
Speaker 2: playing for much, right, Like, I think that it was
Speaker 2: a big, big factor here. So for them to say,
Speaker 2: you know what, let's play spoilers. Let's ruin the Clippers'
Speaker 2: day here and give them a loss, and let's you know,
Speaker 2: go through the gauntlet that is playing Detroit and the
Speaker 2: physicality that they play with, and let's punch them in
Speaker 2: the mouth, right, let's get that with I think that
Speaker 2: that would feel really great, particularly you got two games
Speaker 2: against the Knicks. Anytime you can hand the knicks in health,
Speaker 2: that's going to feel great. So if they can pull
Speaker 2: it off, that'd be great. You know, as you said,
Speaker 2: if they go eight and three, that's sixty five wins,
Speaker 2: we would be thrilled about that. But before the season,
Speaker 2: and I think, no.
Speaker 1: Matter justin, can I just say this is unbelievable. No
Speaker 1: matter what expert we set at the beginning of the season,
Speaker 1: no matter how ambitious we think it is, the Calves
Speaker 1: every year have exceeded that expectation so thoroughly that by
Speaker 1: the end we're like, oh man, they only got to this.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's what this team does. Man, even in
Speaker 1: a season where like there's no way I could feel
Speaker 1: even any shred of disappointment at the end of the
Speaker 1: year based on how far they flew past what I
Speaker 1: thought they were going to be. Like that just is
Speaker 1: is honestly reflective of how good they've been in this
Speaker 1: last three or four years, and even in this season
Speaker 1: that I can be like, oh man, only sixty six wins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think given the benefit of hindsight, it's obviously
Speaker 2: going to be something I celebrate, particularly if they have
Speaker 2: a great postseason run. We're going to look back on
Speaker 2: the season very, very fondly, but they've also earned those
Speaker 2: increased expectations, and I would be disappointed if they didn't
Speaker 2: go out and get the franchise win record or at least,
Speaker 2: at the very least tie it. You know, I think
Speaker 2: that that would be a nice bow on this regular season.
Speaker 2: I think this team has played at that kind of level,
Speaker 2: So I want to see them go out and achieve it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, I think they can. I think it
Speaker 1: would be a special cap to a special season, but
Speaker 1: it'll still be to your point, it's still a special
Speaker 1: season if they landed sixty four, sixty five, sixty six wins,
Speaker 1: you know, matching a matching a win total that you
Speaker 1: only ever got with Lebron James in the building is
Speaker 1: certainly nothing to sneeze at.
Speaker 3: Totally agree. Well, we'll see.
Speaker 2: Obviously, closing out this road trip with a lot of
Speaker 2: wins would go a long way towards getting that win record,
Speaker 2: So we'll see if they're able to pull that off.
Speaker 2: And really, you know, as you said, get off to Schneid,
Speaker 2: get the offense back on track, keep this defense locked,
Speaker 2: and it'll be great to see big thanks to everyone
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Speaker 3: Joe Cats