Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent
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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.
Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,
Speaker 2: Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.
Speaker 2: What do we have personal?
Speaker 1: Indeed, we do many interesting things happening this morning and
Speaker 1: this week. So we got to bring you some of
Speaker 1: this Trump interview with the All In podcast folks, completely
Speaker 1: changing tune on immigration to please his new donors.
Speaker 3: It is incredible. I love it.
Speaker 1: Sager hates it. So little reversal there and be interesting
Speaker 1: to get into that one. Meanwhile, he says that he
Speaker 1: has picked his vice presidential nominee, so and he also
Speaker 1: says that person will be at the debate, So we've
Speaker 1: got lots of speculation there. Commerce and Rocana is going
Speaker 1: to be in studio to talk about why he will
Speaker 1: not be at Benjamin and Yahoo's speech here to Congress
Speaker 1: a lot we want to ask him about with regards
Speaker 1: to that. We also have some other updates with regard
Speaker 1: to Israel, that massive Lebanon war against Hezbola looking more
Speaker 1: and more likely in the US, basically giving a green
Speaker 1: light for that. We also had an uptick in deadly
Speaker 1: strikes in the Gaza strip over the weekend. Meanwhile, we're
Speaker 1: taking a look at the economics of various generations.
Speaker 3: Looks like gen Z even though millennials.
Speaker 1: Graduated into horrible economic crisis, it actually looks like gen
Speaker 1: Z has it even worse than millennials did when we
Speaker 1: were young and coming out of college.
Speaker 3: So we'll take a look at those numbers.
Speaker 1: Sager has a great look at Saudi involvement in nine
Speaker 1: to eleven. A great friends there comes, of course, as
Speaker 1: we're considering this big defense path so important context. And
Speaker 1: we also have New York Times calmnists and author Peter
Speaker 1: Goodman who is asking whether global trade was a mistake
Speaker 1: in a new book that I took a look at it.
Speaker 1: It's an excellent book. I really recommend its out how
Speaker 1: the supply chain went completely haywire during COVID, Getting down
Speaker 1: to the granular specifics of you know, trucking and ports
Speaker 1: and shipping and all of that. So very excited to
Speaker 1: talk to him as well. Before we get to any
Speaker 1: of that, though, Sagar. This week is debate week.
Speaker 2: That's right, kind of crazy debate night, the earliest presidential
Speaker 2: debate in modern American history. We'll have live coverage here
Speaker 2: at the desk with all of the crew. We're gonna
Speaker 2: have a special section for our premium subscribers. They're going
Speaker 2: to be able to ask questions during that debate. So
Speaker 2: go ahead and sign up if you want to get
Speaker 2: in on that Breakingpoints dot Com. We're really excited. We've
Speaker 2: got all the coverage plans, special graphics, et cetera. So
Speaker 2: just yeah, programming update. Then on Thursday, Thursday morning, we're
Speaker 2: not going to have our normal show. We will go
Speaker 2: live what is it around eight o'clock something like that.
Speaker 2: We'll keep everybody updating and we'll go all the way
Speaker 2: through after the night, we'll bring everybody some analysis and
Speaker 2: all that.
Speaker 3: So staying up late for you guys, Yeah, that's right,
Speaker 3: major sacrifice.
Speaker 2: It starts at nine pm, right, which is already an
Speaker 2: attack on both of our lifestyles. Boddy that's that's the
Speaker 2: sacrifice that we do for you. All right, So let's
Speaker 2: go ahead with that and get to the show. As
Speaker 2: Crystal alluded to, Trump sat for the All In podcast
Speaker 2: popular technology podcast for those not familiar, hosted by for
Speaker 2: venture capitalists.
Speaker 3: And two of them are donors to him, by the way,
Speaker 3: we said, no.
Speaker 2: Two of them. Well, I don't know about I think Tamath. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, Tamath is a donor. David Sax certainly. I've
Speaker 2: had David here on the program. You can watch that
Speaker 2: interview if you're interested. All of them are very wealthy,
Speaker 2: near billionaire status, if not billionaires literally themselves. Here is
Speaker 2: a question from Jason Calcanus. Jason is kind of the
Speaker 2: center left host of the All In Podcast, and he
Speaker 2: asked Trump about high skilled immigration visas being stapled to
Speaker 2: green cars. This has been a major priority for tech
Speaker 2: oligarchs for more than a decade now at this point.
Speaker 2: And just listen to how Trump answered the question. Let's
Speaker 2: take a listen.
Speaker 4: We need high skilled workers in this country. Yes, we
Speaker 4: need to recruit the best and brightest from the world.
Speaker 4: Every time we get somebody super intelligent from India or Europe,
Speaker 4: any country three are immigrants, sir, Yeah, and three or
Speaker 4: the four here are immigrants, the ones without the tize
Speaker 4: and we can get these great people into our country.
Speaker 4: And that's a loss for our adversaries and our competitors,
Speaker 4: and it's a game for us. But I've never heard
Speaker 4: you talk about this. Can you please promise us you
Speaker 4: will give us more ability to import the best and
Speaker 4: brightest around the world to a mirror.
Speaker 5: I do promise, but I happen to agree. That's why
Speaker 5: I promise, Otherwise I wouldn't promise. Let me just tell
Speaker 5: you that it's so sad when we lose people from Harvard,
Speaker 5: mit from the greatest schools and lesser schools that are
Speaker 5: phenomenal schools. Also, what I want to do and what
Speaker 5: I will do, is you graduate from a college. I
Speaker 5: think you should get automatically as part of your diploma,
Speaker 5: a green card to be able to stay in this country.
Speaker 5: And that includes junior colleges too. Anybody graduates from a college,
Speaker 5: you go in there for two years or four years.
Speaker 5: If you graduate or you get a doctorate degree from
Speaker 5: a college, you should be able to stay in this country.
Speaker 5: And you know more stories than I do, But I
Speaker 5: know of stories where people graduated from a top college
Speaker 5: or from a college and they desperately wanted to stay here.
Speaker 5: They had a plan for a company, a concept, and
Speaker 5: they can't. They go back to India, they go back
Speaker 5: to China. They do the same basic company in those
Speaker 5: places and they become multi billionaires, employing thousands and thousands
Speaker 5: of people. And it could have been done here. It
Speaker 5: was such a big deal. Somebody graduates at the top
Speaker 5: of the last they can't even make a deal with
Speaker 5: a company because they don't think they're going to be
Speaker 5: able to stay in the country.
Speaker 6: That is going to end on day one.
Speaker 2: That's going to end on day one. Let's just say
Speaker 2: this is probably as big of a flip flop as
Speaker 2: it gets there from Donald Trump. Look personally, I think
Speaker 2: this policy incredible, idiotic, and stupid. Basically, we just continue
Speaker 2: to turn universities into foreign visa farms. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of reasons why we shouldn't go down that hill. That
Speaker 2: being said, the most important part of this interview is
Speaker 2: just to show everyone how Trump is very comfortable. I
Speaker 2: think that's a kind way of saying it flip flopping
Speaker 2: on previous held, long standing positions through his administration through
Speaker 2: his advisors and others in exchange for basically campaign cash.
Speaker 2: I mean, as crystal you said chum Off. Polyhopatilla and
Speaker 2: David Sachs both hosted a Trump fundraiser in Silicon Valley
Speaker 2: which raised big bucks, a lot of billionaires, A lot
Speaker 2: of people who previously had not really entered the frey
Speaker 2: in politics attended the fundraiser. This is just a preview
Speaker 2: again into how Trump is conducting himself in this election.
Speaker 2: And I want people to understand, like, whether you think
Speaker 2: about the policy or not, Trump unambiguously was against his
Speaker 2: policy back in twenty sixteen and in twenty twenty. The
Speaker 2: reason he's changing his tune is this is the number
Speaker 2: one priority for tech oligarchs. I have been involved in
Speaker 2: these circles now for quite some times. There are entire
Speaker 2: think tanks stood up here in Washington, specifically by the
Speaker 2: technology industry to lobby for more H one B visas
Speaker 2: and more of these student visa specifically because these are
Speaker 2: the people who go to work for them. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: what they want. They want more. And look, let me
Speaker 2: say also this, It's not that I'm against immigration. This
Speaker 2: is not fair even for many of these people So
Speaker 2: just to explain, in the H one B system, for example,
Speaker 2: they're your sponsor. So like let's say Facebook sponsors you. Well,
Speaker 2: if you get fired, you lose your visa. So what
Speaker 2: does that mean? You really don't want to get fired.
Speaker 2: It also means maybe you're going to take eighty five
Speaker 2: percent less than an American citizen who can leave if
Speaker 2: he wants, and everybody wins. Right, you get to get
Speaker 2: paid less, you get a nice visa, you get to
Speaker 2: stay here in San Mateo, and you get to buy
Speaker 2: a house. It's cool. Same with these universities. You think
Speaker 2: that these universities aren't going to just start charging one
Speaker 2: hundred two hundred thousand dollars per year to every rich
Speaker 2: kid from China and to India because they get automatic
Speaker 2: green card. What does that mean again?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 2: US citizen, he's a problem, she's a problem. You gotta
Speaker 2: Oh she can leave if she wants to. Oh you know,
Speaker 2: Oh well what if she decides not to graduate or
Speaker 2: something like that, they have you buy a chain. You're
Speaker 2: like a slave. That's what a lot of these systems
Speaker 2: eventually evolve into, not to mention just outright visa fraud.
Speaker 2: So these are all things that you could go listen
Speaker 2: to Stephen Miller, say, for example, but now you know,
Speaker 2: because these tech people are putting money into his pockets.
Speaker 2: Trump just like on several other issues either that he
Speaker 2: doesn't care about or previously had flippedtopped on like TikTok.
Speaker 2: If it's it's up for sale to the highest bidder.
Speaker 2: That's why it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: I mean, I find it so entertaining because.
Speaker 2: It's funny, like don't getting wrong, it's just.
Speaker 3: So it's just such a shameless cash grab. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: I really recommend you go and listen to the interview
Speaker 1: we did with Matt Stoller, who was really he was
Speaker 1: early to recognizing not just the different policies that Trump
Speaker 1: has promoted, but he is His rhetoric is completely different
Speaker 1: from twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: I mean, he.
Speaker 1: Doesn't go after corporations at all. For those of you
Speaker 1: who were all about the like bud Light boycott or whatever, Trump.
Speaker 3: Got out there and was like, stop boycotting cud Like.
Speaker 2: Guys are money. Yeah, that's right. The Anheuser family literally
Speaker 2: cut them into check.
Speaker 1: Even on something that's just like a core hot button
Speaker 1: culture war issue, he took the side of the corporation.
Speaker 3: It's incredible to me.
Speaker 1: I mean personally, I support this policy, but you're one
Speaker 1: hundred percent right, Zager. Just I support higher immigration levels.
Speaker 1: So what will happen here is he goes even further
Speaker 1: than Hillary Clinton did back in twenty sixteen because her program,
Speaker 1: I think we have a five.
Speaker 3: We can put up a five on the screen.
Speaker 1: Hers was just critical with regards to STEM graduates. Trump says, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we want to staple the green card to all, including
Speaker 1: junior colleges. So yeah, what would happen is, you know,
Speaker 1: you'd have a lot of junior colleges or diploma mills
Speaker 1: that set up like this is now your way to
Speaker 1: get a green card, this is your way into the country. Again,
Speaker 1: I fully support it because I support higher levels of immigration.
Speaker 3: But it could not be more of a one and.
Speaker 1: Eighty degree flip from where he has been and especially
Speaker 1: the reason it's so funny because many flips on issues
Speaker 1: all the time, He's like all over the map on
Speaker 1: critical things like the Ukraine War and our policy vis
Speaker 1: of e Israel, all kinds of things. He can be
Speaker 1: all over the place, just depending on what audience he's
Speaker 1: trying to please at the moment. But you know, the
Speaker 1: assumption had always been there were maybe a few things
Speaker 1: that he actually cared about. Immigration was at the top
Speaker 1: of that list. This man doesn't care about anything. He's
Speaker 1: decided the number one priority is getting the cash from
Speaker 1: Wall Street, which he's.
Speaker 3: Doing very successfully.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna have some of the numbers there and
Speaker 1: the big one that doesn't get as much attention as
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley, and that is reflected certainly with this policy,
Speaker 1: but also with his flip on say crypto, which is
Speaker 1: another area where he's done a complete one eighty in
Speaker 1: service of getting donors. And this is also we're going
Speaker 1: to get to, you know, who he's thinking of for VP.
Speaker 1: This is also why I think there's a chance that
Speaker 1: Doug Bergram, former Microsoft executive, does end up as Trump's VP,
Speaker 1: because what does he bring with him. He's you know,
Speaker 1: no drama, he's sort of people say he looks like
Speaker 1: George Washington. My daughter said he gets patriotic eagle. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I could see Trump liking the look of him. But
Speaker 1: Number one, he brings a lot of money and a
Speaker 1: lot of Silicon Valley comfort to the table, and clearly
Speaker 1: that's a thing that's important to tell.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Miss Bergham is himself a near billionaire. Crypto is
Speaker 2: another good example. By the way, I support crypto, so like,
Speaker 2: I'm fine with it, but like you just said, it's
Speaker 2: one of those where it's like, dude, you're obviously doing
Speaker 2: this for cash. Because Trump came out and this was
Speaker 2: famous in the crypto bitcoin community, he was like, I'm
Speaker 2: against bitcoin, this is bad. His administration actively lobbied against
Speaker 2: Facebook Libra. If anybody wants to know, could go back
Speaker 2: and look into that. I mean, he was a vocally
Speaker 2: anti crypto, along with Steve Mnuschan, who worked in the government,
Speaker 2: much through the chagrin of a lot of people in
Speaker 2: the bitcoin world. Then just the other day, the Winkle
Speaker 2: Vi who you may remember from the Social Network movie.
Speaker 2: They're actually real, by the way, and they became fantastically
Speaker 2: wealthy themselves because they were very early to bitcoin. They
Speaker 2: opened their own exchange called Gemini. Well, both of the
Speaker 2: winkle v endorsed Trump just like a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: openly because they're like, yeah, he supports bitcoin, I mean,
Speaker 2: and so it's it's just naked. Biktok is a great example. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I reckon. I so Jeff YaST you know, is American
Speaker 2: billionaire's worth some twenty four billion dollars. I think he's
Speaker 2: a mar Lago club member. He wasn't nearly as involved
Speaker 2: back in twenty twenty. This time around he makes his
Speaker 2: inroads to Trump. He's one of the largest single shareholders
Speaker 2: in byte Dance, which is the Chinese holding company that
Speaker 2: owns TikTok. A substantial portion of his own net worth
Speaker 2: is up in byte Dance. So what does he do.
Speaker 2: He donates huge amounts to the Trump campaign ingratiates himself,
Speaker 2: and now all of a sudden, Trump is pro TikTok.
Speaker 2: Now again, each of these policies, you can evaluate them
Speaker 2: on their face, like crypto TikTok, immigration, whatever, that's fine,
Speaker 2: But what are we doing here whenever it's so naked
Speaker 2: and it's out in the open. So for all of those,
Speaker 2: you know, like ultra pro Trump people, I just think,
Speaker 2: look at the very least he got to make your
Speaker 2: peace with this and understand that whoever's got the cash
Speaker 2: is actually who's going to win. Not all that different
Speaker 2: last time around, but at least there was some rhetoric.
Speaker 2: And this is the thing too.
Speaker 1: He's dropped even the rhetorical allusions to any sort of
Speaker 1: a different like populist Republican.
Speaker 2: He tried to pull himself out more recently at a
Speaker 2: faith and fam was like Freedom Coalition or whatever event
Speaker 2: talking about He's like, we need some migrant UFC events.
Speaker 2: Let's take a lesson Dana White.
Speaker 5: Did anyone ever hear of Dana? He's a legendre UFC,
Speaker 5: ultimate fighter, ultimate fighting, and he is He's a fantastic man.
Speaker 5: I said, Dana, I have an idea. Why don't you
Speaker 5: set up a migrant league of fighters and have your
Speaker 5: regular league of fighters, and then you have the champion
Speaker 5: of your league. These are the greatest fighters in the world,
Speaker 5: fight the champion of the migrants.
Speaker 2: I think the migrant.
Speaker 5: Guy might win, that's how tough they are. He didn't
Speaker 5: like that idea too much, but actually not the worst
Speaker 5: idea I've ever had.
Speaker 2: So it's like he's trying to pull himself out. He's
Speaker 2: trying to get with the immigration hawks. And that's another
Speaker 2: one where I had no respect for people whose major
Speaker 2: issue is like immigration, for example. And then when Trump,
Speaker 2: who is like their god king, you know, betrays them,
Speaker 2: they don't say any thing, So shout out to you know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of real ones out there, people like
Speaker 2: Ryan Gerdoski knows they really care about the issues. They're
Speaker 2: actually consistent. They'll criticize people whenever they actually go against
Speaker 2: the grave. But here you have Steve Bannon, who is
Speaker 2: you know again, he's like the so called ideological godfather
Speaker 2: Maga of Jacksonianism. He's like the major defender of the policy.
Speaker 2: Just listen to the most milk toast criticism here of
Speaker 2: Trump whenever he outrighted flip flops on this. Let's take
Speaker 2: a listen.
Speaker 7: The exit visa should be clipped to the to the
Speaker 7: to the diploma, the exit visa. We can't make the
Speaker 7: world okay, We can't keep the world on our shoulders
Speaker 7: and keep spending money on all these forever wars in
Speaker 7: this international apparatus, in this empire. We want the nations
Speaker 7: of the earth to also make themselves great again. People
Speaker 7: buy and large want to live back where they come
Speaker 7: from and where their folks are and what their culture
Speaker 7: and society is. Yes, let's take them in a selective basis,
Speaker 7: trade them up, let them root for college football and
Speaker 7: get all that. You know, you look at the college
Speaker 7: football stands the diversity, it's fabulous. But then it's time
Speaker 7: to go back home and make your country great again.
Speaker 7: Work for your country and make it great again. That
Speaker 7: is the way we go as as nations of the earth,
Speaker 7: as nations of the earth, and we move together. We
Speaker 7: can't suck it all in like Britain, and you can't
Speaker 7: do that, then it's going to be these are gonna
Speaker 7: be shells of each other.
Speaker 2: Well what you know what word I didn't hear? You
Speaker 2: know what word I didn't hear that entire time. Trump,
Speaker 2: the guy who said the policy, this is what I'm
Speaker 2: talking about. It's like if you this is if a
Speaker 2: Democrat said this, if Mitt Romney said this, if Mike
Speaker 2: Penn said this, it would be slaughter out in the open.
Speaker 2: He wants to replace us, He wants to just.
Speaker 3: A debate stage during the Republican primary.
Speaker 2: The only difference is always have been like, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: stupid either way. But these people, they have no integrity,
Speaker 2: Like you know in general, they are just willing to
Speaker 2: go along because they know if the clip goes viral,
Speaker 2: then Trump will find out and they're going to be
Speaker 2: out of as good graces and they'll stop being Maga warriors.
Speaker 2: So there are very few out there who are being genuine,
Speaker 2: you know, in their critics here. But the nakedness of it,
Speaker 2: it's just too much. It's too much. And you you know,
Speaker 2: we have this political story which just details you know,
Speaker 2: so many key instances like this where Trump keeps flip
Speaker 2: flopping his policy positions after meeting with rich people. For example,
Speaker 2: the Alam podcast is what they start with. They point
Speaker 2: to the TikTok ban, they point to the cryptocurrency. But
Speaker 2: there have been other just cartoonish elements here with Trump,
Speaker 2: for example, recently had a fundraiser. He's like, anybody who
Speaker 2: donates a million dollars can come and take this microphone
Speaker 2: right now and speak at my event. And they had
Speaker 2: like three people do it. Yeah, three people just walked
Speaker 2: up there like, yeah, I'm ranted about whatever. You know, Israel,
Speaker 2: you know anything wants. Miriam Adelson cuts him one hundred
Speaker 2: million dollar check. It's flying around Nicky Haley in her
Speaker 2: Gulf Sands jet and what is it? What does Uh
Speaker 2: Trump say on the policy? He's like becoming even more
Speaker 2: pro Israel and basically tacitly agreed that he will allow
Speaker 2: israeally total control of the West Bank. He won't even
Speaker 2: rhetorically push against it. Yea, So how is that not
Speaker 2: foreign interference in our elections? That's right, all of these
Speaker 2: cases buy in our foreign policy. Starting their people is
Speaker 2: basically for sale to the highest bidder of whatever they want.
Speaker 2: And again, you can have policy which you agree with
Speaker 2: disagree with, but that's not how you know, at least allegedly,
Speaker 2: this entire drain the swamp ridder from twenty sixteen. What happened. Man,
Speaker 2: It's gone. It's just totally gone.
Speaker 1: Absolutely gone. But you can't say it's not paying off.
Speaker 1: Of course, a six up on the screen. You know,
Speaker 1: Biden had a big cash advantage and has been able
Speaker 1: to run a bunch of ads and you know, sort
Speaker 1: of get started early. Apparently they used to have a
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollar cash advantage. But Trump has outraised
Speaker 1: Biden by eighty one million dollars in the last two months.
Speaker 1: And now the gap between the two of them when
Speaker 1: you look all together at both the direct campaign contributions
Speaker 1: and the outside groups, which are just important in terms
Speaker 1: of fundraising, Trump.
Speaker 3: Has effectively closed the gap.
Speaker 1: So his shameless Wall Street and Silicon Valley and Miria
Speaker 1: madleson cash grab definitely paying off. And I also want
Speaker 1: to say there was also a huge fundraising surge in
Speaker 1: smaller dollar contributions to Trump after he was found guilty.
Speaker 1: So it's not all just because of the shameless cash grab.
Speaker 1: It's also partly because of the cult of personality.
Speaker 3: But there you go.
Speaker 1: So it's it's working for him in terms of those goals,
Speaker 1: and I think he rightly he sees this landscape. Who
Speaker 1: he famously said, I could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue,
Speaker 1: they still be It's the case he could shoot his
Speaker 1: own original policy in the head on Fifth Avenue and
Speaker 1: people would still oh, well if Trump, if Trump said,
Speaker 1: it must be fine and all good.
Speaker 2: Here's the question, how many of these boomers who are
Speaker 2: going to he listened to the Steve Bannon podcast whatever,
Speaker 2: it's war room, right, how are they even going to
Speaker 2: know the Trump flip flop? If that's the way that
Speaker 2: you milk toast criticize, They're not going to know same
Speaker 2: on Fox News. It's like, are they really going to
Speaker 2: cover this over on Fox for real? This is going
Speaker 2: to be part of the Jesse Waters monologue, Like not
Speaker 2: a chance. I'm waiting and I'm hoping that somebody will
Speaker 2: actually have have some integrity on this issue. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not delusional. And the more that we look at
Speaker 2: all of the you know from this from the campaign
Speaker 2: so far, is this really is a road to help
Speaker 2: Because it's not just Trump, you know, who's holding big
Speaker 2: dollar fundraisers. Biden is doing it as well. Biden on
Speaker 2: these glitzy stages. He just had George Clooney and Julia Roberts.
Speaker 2: The art of the mega campaign fundraise seems to be
Speaker 2: more overt today than ever before.
Speaker 1: True, right, there's not even a pretense around it. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Democrats don't even pretend like they're going to do
Speaker 1: campaign finance re forma right.
Speaker 2: They just rent out what is it what they have
Speaker 2: that New York City place and they have three presidents
Speaker 2: up there and you get to pay fifteen hundred dollars
Speaker 2: or whatever a take and they raise twenty five million
Speaker 2: bucks in a single night. Why should they even tweet
Speaker 2: or hit your campaign in box. Sure they're gonna make
Speaker 2: some money, but the vast majority of the dollars have
Speaker 2: been coming in late for the Biden people. For him,
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to go out there actively campaign. He
Speaker 2: just wants to go hit a room full of rich folks.
Speaker 2: Read Hoffman for example, another Silicon Valley billionaire. He's hold
Speaker 2: raising huge fundraisers for the Biden campaign. And I mean,
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, by the way, eighty five percent
Speaker 2: or whatever a venture capitalists are still donating Democrat. It's
Speaker 2: just that there's also super ultra wealthy ones on the
Speaker 2: right now as well. So in both cases, everybody is
Speaker 2: just getting in on the game, and it's more of
Speaker 2: a club of elite's at the top than ever before.
Speaker 1: Really, So I'm not even sure that's true with the
Speaker 1: regard to the venture capitalist anymore.
Speaker 3: If you look at Wall Street overall.
Speaker 1: So Obama was the first Democrat that like won the
Speaker 1: Wall Street donation bid war right, he was able to
Speaker 1: outfunder him, and this was touted is like a positive
Speaker 1: thing at the time. By the way, anyway, since Obama,
Speaker 1: obviously with Hillary than Biden last time around, the Democrats
Speaker 1: have been sucking up more Wall Street cash than Republicans. Yes,
Speaker 1: right now, Trump is ahead of Biden, and it's the
Speaker 1: first time again since before since back during George W.
Speaker 2: Bush.
Speaker 1: So he has flipped that dynamic very successfully, and it's
Speaker 1: not only through these things. And we also covered how
Speaker 1: you know, he's just very naked. He'll go into room
Speaker 1: full of billionaires or you know, very high net worth
Speaker 1: individuals and tell them, listen, you got to give to
Speaker 1: me because I'm going to give your tax cut, like
Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure that there's a return on
Speaker 1: investment in that cash. He went to oil executives and
Speaker 1: told them, hey, you need to raise a billion dollars
Speaker 1: for me, because I'm going to make you lots of money,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to roll back any sort of regulation
Speaker 1: I'm going to take. I'm going to completely unleash it.
Speaker 1: Like you do whatever you want. You're going to make
Speaker 1: a ton of money. It's going to be worth it
Speaker 1: for you. So there's a culture of just brazenness that
Speaker 1: I think has really developed. I mean, you know, Trump
Speaker 1: always takes things to the next level. But the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court is basically said that unless you're literally like Bob Menendez,
Speaker 1: taking gold bars in exchange for explicit business promises, then
Speaker 1: it's all fine and good. So this is the hell
Speaker 1: that they have unleashed, where foreign policy is up for
Speaker 1: sale to the highest bidder, tax policy up for sale
Speaker 1: of the highest bidder, immigration policy up for sale of
Speaker 1: the highest bidder. The funny thing too about the immigration policy,
Speaker 1: which again I support because I support higher immigration levels,
Speaker 1: and I do think that what Trump is talking about
Speaker 1: here would open a massive pathway to a lot more immigrants.
Speaker 1: And I do also think he makes a good point
Speaker 1: about no. Part of the reason that this country has
Speaker 1: been as strong and successful as it is is because
Speaker 1: we have been a magnet for the brightest minds around
Speaker 1: the world through our university and education system. And to
Speaker 1: then say, okay, well, now that we've trained you up,
Speaker 1: you have to leave, I think is counterproductive in the
Speaker 1: terms of the national interests. But you know, the funny
Speaker 1: thing about it is to your point, soar if Biden
Speaker 1: proposed this, not a fucking chance, not a chance, not
Speaker 1: a chance would this be allowed through Trump could actually
Speaker 1: get it done, though, because you see the slavishness of
Speaker 1: the level of devotion to him, the cult like you know,
Speaker 1: approach to anything that he utters. So if he actually
Speaker 1: I don't know if he will, I don't believe a
Speaker 1: word this man says. Who knows what he actually would
Speaker 1: do in office? But if he actually decided he wanted
Speaker 1: to deliver for David Sachs and about Paula Halpatilla and
Speaker 1: the other his other Silicon Valley buddies. And he's got
Speaker 1: Doug Bergham on the ticket, then I think there is
Speaker 1: a good chance.
Speaker 3: That he does it.
Speaker 1: And he could actually do it where Biden the Democrats couldn't.
Speaker 1: It's like the Nixon goes to China thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, Clinton being the one who could actually end welfare.
Speaker 1: When you go against the grain of what your party
Speaker 1: typically stands for, you sort of force your own partisans
Speaker 1: into line. The other party may already agree with you,
Speaker 1: and then there you go. So the irony here is
Speaker 1: that if anyone was going to get this done, it
Speaker 1: would be Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're probably right, maybe he will do I
Speaker 2: will just say, look, we already have an O one visa.
Speaker 2: It's called a talent visa, and if you're allegedly so great,
Speaker 2: you can apply for it. Currently has a ninety seven
Speaker 2: percent acceptance rate. Just so people know, it's not like
Speaker 2: people are hard up right now for talent visas to
Speaker 2: the country. Let's go to the next part you alluded to,
Speaker 2: the vice president. Trump says he has picked his vice president.
Speaker 2: Let's go and put that up there on the screen.
Speaker 2: Donald Trump told NBC News, quote, in my mind, yes,
Speaker 2: I picked the person that will quote most likely then
Speaker 2: be at the Thursday debate against Joe Biden. He says,
Speaker 2: they will be there. I think we have a lot
Speaker 2: of people come. So Trump said, nobody knows his choice yet.
Speaker 2: Currently there are multiple people who are in contention. NBC
Speaker 2: claims Doug Berghm, jd Vance, and Marco Rubio are quote,
Speaker 2: the possible top contenders. I don't know how much I
Speaker 2: would take that list necessarily to the bank. But Doug Bergham,
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any chance is not near the
Speaker 2: top of the list. He is blank slate. People can
Speaker 2: go watch our interview with him, you know, if you're interested.
Speaker 2: It doesn't look in terms of his political experience and
Speaker 2: all that. Let's just be kind and say it's not
Speaker 2: near the big leagues. But he has been making the
Speaker 2: rounds on television and kind of slavishly selling himself as
Speaker 2: a Trump defender. Here, for example, is a recent interview
Speaker 2: just gave yesterday talking about the veepstakes. Let's take a.
Speaker 8: List, but the real thing which we ought to be
Speaker 8: talking about is Joe Biden's choice for VP, because as
Speaker 8: you showed earlier in the show with Joe, with him
Speaker 8: obviously failing right now in front of the world stage,
Speaker 8: in the national stage, and then he picked four years ago,
Speaker 8: someone who's got no busines experience, no operating experience.
Speaker 6: Between Biden Harris, they've.
Speaker 8: Never created a private sector job in their life. And
Speaker 8: then here we are facing a set of issues that
Speaker 8: a businessman like Trump can really take care of, which
Speaker 8: is our economy. Trump's proven that you can take care
Speaker 8: of the border, and Trump's energy policy is going to
Speaker 8: change the whole national security scene. So I think that
Speaker 8: the you know, the focus ought to be on Biden's choice.
Speaker 8: And who knows if Biden's even going to make it
Speaker 8: to the starting line.
Speaker 2: So who knows if Biden's It's like, what, dude, answer
Speaker 2: the question. It's like, are you actually in the running
Speaker 2: for a VP or not. He also went on CNN
Speaker 2: he said Trump was a dictator or sorry, Biden was
Speaker 2: a dictator actually when asked a question about Trump. Let's
Speaker 2: flip this also, and let's go to the next part
Speaker 2: just to show you there's like multiple competing factions. As
Speaker 2: I understand it, Apparently Rupert Murdoch has been pushing Doug Bergham,
Speaker 2: and he really doesn't like JD. Vance. Donald Trump Junior, though,
Speaker 2: has kind of his own coacherie of people. Him and
Speaker 2: JD Vance have become relatively close. JD for example, appeared
Speaker 2: on Trump Junior's podcast on Rumble Trump Juniors and tweeting
Speaker 2: about JD Vance. He wants somebody who's more ideologically aligned
Speaker 2: with the quote unquote America First agenda. This is one
Speaker 2: of those where I just don't know who is going
Speaker 2: to win out All's look, it's certainly possible Trump picks
Speaker 2: somebody who ideologically could be his enforcer, somebody like JD.
Speaker 2: It is also equally possible that he picks somebody like
Speaker 2: Marco Rubio. Now, one of the reasons that I've heard
Speaker 2: about Rubio Crystal is that they are very excited about
Speaker 2: the burgeoning Hispanic vote and they want somebody who can
Speaker 2: genuinely speak Spanish, who can cut ads for them that
Speaker 2: they could play all across South Texas, Florida, et cetera.
Speaker 2: The other one is that Trump himself right now is
Speaker 2: so beholden and so excited by cash and by billionaires
Speaker 2: that Doug Bergum both has traditional Reaganite policy. Obviously he'll
Speaker 2: just say whatever he needs to say, you know, to
Speaker 2: take the job. He himself has got a lot of money,
Speaker 2: so he could both write checks and he can get
Speaker 2: a lot of rich friends, yeah, to donate. And he's
Speaker 2: not offensive in any way. Like he makes the billionaires
Speaker 2: very very happy and right now obviously they're in his
Speaker 2: ear and Trump has been taking a lot of advice
Speaker 2: from them. Everything I've read currently is that the like
Speaker 2: old guard GOP, he has been donating a lot of
Speaker 2: money Trump. This time around, they're pushing Trump somebody like
Speaker 2: Burgham and Tim Scott very heavily. So we will find out.
Speaker 2: I doubt well, actually, I'm actually I'm curious. What do
Speaker 2: you think. Do you actually think he's going to tell
Speaker 2: us on debate day?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. Why because you wouldn't want
Speaker 2: that to upstage whatever he's about to do. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 2: it'll be the day after. I'm not sure, but I.
Speaker 1: Think he's going to wait till the RNC, I think
Speaker 1: to announce. I mean, I just think he'll want the bill,
Speaker 1: but exactly he wants the show. I mean to announce it,
Speaker 1: like at the debate or after that it's just kind
Speaker 1: of like lack the pop that he would that he
Speaker 1: would want. I don't know, I'm feeling the burgamentum who knows.
Speaker 2: I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I mean Tim Scott is another one where like the
Speaker 1: donor class really loves him, So I could see the
Speaker 1: logic there. Listen, Trump last time made a very strategic choice.
Speaker 1: He needed to back in twenty sixteen. He needed to
Speaker 1: solidify standing with evangelicals who were a little shaky with him.
Speaker 1: Mike Pence was the perfect pick, and I think was
Speaker 1: you know, really responsible for helping to get him over
Speaker 1: the top at then, especially after Access Hollywood. It was
Speaker 1: a very clever choice, and Pence was incredibly loyal to
Speaker 1: him all the way up until basically January sixth, so
Speaker 1: you know, on every level, it was a tactically wise
Speaker 1: choice for Trump. I think he will make another choice
Speaker 1: that he feels to be in his tactical interest because remember,
Speaker 1: this man is not just fighting to get back in
Speaker 1: the White House. He really is also fighting for his
Speaker 1: like freedom. Because there is a good chance that even
Speaker 1: though these various case the Document's case, for example, even
Speaker 1: though they've been slow rolled and are not going to
Speaker 1: come to some sort of conclusion before the election. If
Speaker 1: he doesn't win, he's facing tremendous legal jeopardy, and so
Speaker 1: I think that's something not to lose sight of, which
Speaker 1: is why I mean, listen, who knows. I don't have
Speaker 1: any special insight into the mind of Donald Trump, nor
Speaker 1: do I want to. But I just find it hard
Speaker 1: to believe he's going to pick someone like Jade Vance
Speaker 1: because what does he bring? What does he bring? Coalitionally,
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't bring. There's not a demographic group
Speaker 1: that Trump's gonna imagine he brings to the table. There's
Speaker 1: not a group of donors like the donors to If anything,
Speaker 1: they don't really like JD. Vans, like the Rupert Murdocks
Speaker 1: of the world, are uncomfortable with him. That's true, he
Speaker 1: is friends. But the other thing is that like Jadvans
Speaker 1: is trying to channel what Trump said in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: and it's no longer actually an ideological match. Even so,
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll see what direction he goes in.
Speaker 1: But given the ideological direction he's moved in, given what
Speaker 1: he's prioritized in terms of this campaign, I don't know
Speaker 1: there's a lot there in terms of like a Tim
Speaker 1: Scott or Doug Bergham, someone who really is ASoP to
Speaker 1: the donor class. And we should also say too and
Speaker 1: give Biden his you know, his credit. It's not just
Speaker 1: that they've grown more comfortable with Trump and he's given
Speaker 1: the Hey, i'll give you your tax cuts, I'll give your deregulation.
Speaker 1: I'll you know, flip flop on TikTok, I'll flip flop
Speaker 1: on crypto, flip flop on carried interest, like whatever you want,
Speaker 1: I'll do before immigration. It's also that Wall Street really
Speaker 1: hates Biden's Anti trust division. In particular. They hate it
Speaker 1: because so many Wall Street like rank and file workers,
Speaker 1: they get their bonuses based on mergers and acquisitions, and
Speaker 1: Biden's anti trust division has really put a lid on
Speaker 1: all new mergers and acquisitions. So that is a big
Speaker 1: part of why Wall Street really dislikes Joe Biden in particular,
Speaker 1: really dislikes Lena Khan, who he has sort of turned
Speaker 1: the policy over towards and has really charted a much
Speaker 1: better course in terms of anti trust enforcement. And they
Speaker 1: absolutely hate that. I'm sure they're not in love. Also
Speaker 1: with the you know, the new labor organizing in the
Speaker 1: way Joe Biden's n L RBS positioned. But I do
Speaker 1: think anti trust is sort of like the key rub
Speaker 1: for them. So it's not just that they're more comfy
Speaker 1: with Trump. It's also that they're unhappy with some of
Speaker 1: the Biden economic policies and the way it's hurt their
Speaker 1: bottom line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly, Look, don't get me wrong, they don't like him,
Speaker 2: you know Trump Also it helped if Trump is like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: whatever you want. In terms of the polity last time
Speaker 2: around it was a little bit different. We will see. Certainly,
Speaker 2: I think Jdy' still got a decent shot just because
Speaker 2: Trump Junior really likes him. And do you think do.
Speaker 3: You think the dad cares what Trump Junior thinks?
Speaker 2: I just really kind of doubt what I think is
Speaker 2: at FaceTime at mar A Lago matters with a man
Speaker 2: who's constantly pulling people around him, and I know JD's
Speaker 2: basically benness.
Speaker 1: I get a vibe of a lot of disrespect towards
Speaker 1: Don Junior from Dad.
Speaker 2: I'm more saying that's how he's been able to get in. Look,
Speaker 2: he likes people who go on TV. JD goes on
Speaker 2: TV and defends him, So does Doug Burgham, so does
Speaker 2: Tim Scott JD actually is articulate versus some of the
Speaker 2: other candidates there who are in the race. Coalitionally, it's true.
Speaker 2: I mean, Ohio, You're gonna win Ohio no matter what. Again,
Speaker 2: it really feels about how comfortable he is in a
Speaker 2: victory and what it's going to look like, and also
Speaker 2: the optics that he wants on television, because Trump himself
Speaker 2: doesn't like to go in and do all. He likes
Speaker 2: the spar but he just want to do the daily hits,
Speaker 2: Whereas I think the VP candidate, just like all of
Speaker 2: these people have been all over television. He wants them
Speaker 2: on TV constantly defending him like a surrogate. So who
Speaker 2: he thinks will representatively do a really good job against
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and also just on television constantly defending him.
Speaker 2: That is what's going to come into play because he's
Speaker 2: always about the optics and about how it's going to
Speaker 2: look going into the race. So I'm curious too to
Speaker 2: see what he does. I would give all of them
Speaker 2: a relatively egal shot, I do think Burgham. I don't know,
Speaker 2: I'm just feeling Doug Burgham, Yeah, yeah, as well, maybe I'm.
Speaker 3: It would be so funny because you guys got to
Speaker 3: go back and watch the interview.
Speaker 1: I never in a million years would have thought he
Speaker 1: had shot at anything.
Speaker 3: Is just go watch it. Just go watch it. That's
Speaker 3: all I have to say.
Speaker 2: All right, let's move to the next part. And this
Speaker 2: is very relevant to many of the things that we
Speaker 2: talk about here on the show, just about how gen
Speaker 2: Z may actually have it worse off financially than millennials.
Speaker 2: Millennials who graduated into a terrible economy with sluggish employment. Well,
Speaker 2: it turns out inflation plus sluggish employment may be the
Speaker 2: worst of all worlds. So let's put this up there
Speaker 2: on the screen. We have here the article, but let's
Speaker 2: actually go to the next part with the charts, because
Speaker 2: this really demonstrates to everybody. So here we have gen
Speaker 2: Z inflation adjusted change for sixteen to twenty four year
Speaker 2: olds who are spending one hundred and forty percent more
Speaker 2: on vehicle insurance, one hundred and ten percent more on housing,
Speaker 2: with a real wage increase of just twenty five to
Speaker 2: thirty percent, so barely keeping up with the level of
Speaker 2: food inflation, with housing and with car insurance dramatically outpacing
Speaker 2: it by almost fivefold. If you go to the next part,
Speaker 2: you can actually see this as well. The average credit
Speaker 2: card balance has increased the most for people who are
Speaker 2: Gen Z forty two point nine percent, right up there
Speaker 2: with our fellow millennials at forty two and a half percent,
Speaker 2: twenty nine percent for Gen X, just fourteen percent for boomers,
Speaker 2: and seven percent for the Silent generation. Next part please
Speaker 2: as well, you can see here being hit hard the
Speaker 2: war inflation. The way that they calculate that is just
Speaker 2: about the level of price increase over the course of
Speaker 2: your working life. So obviously you can see there for
Speaker 2: millennials and for gen Z, but there's also a lot
Speaker 2: of goods and services that people need to spend on
Speaker 2: necessities whenever they're younger. That's going to take up a huge,
Speaker 2: more bigger portion of their income. And that gets us
Speaker 2: to the last chart, if we can put that, please,
Speaker 2: the outside share on necessities, where you can see that
Speaker 2: compared to all ages, rent is twenty percent of a
Speaker 2: Gen Z overall spending just six percent eight percent for
Speaker 2: all ages, so almost three times more over there for rent.
Speaker 2: Dining out is roughly similar, car insurance roughly similar, but
Speaker 2: gas is higher. The rent equation and housing just shows
Speaker 2: us again how much worse it is for the younger
Speaker 2: that you are. You're not in a house, which means
Speaker 2: you are subject to the worst single part of inflation
Speaker 2: with housing, with rent and your inability also to s
Speaker 2: save to buy that house. So it all comes back
Speaker 2: to housing. As they say, and as we continue to
Speaker 2: say here on the show, it.
Speaker 1: Really is astonishing when you think about it, when you
Speaker 1: think about, you know, millennials, we're basically like in college
Speaker 1: or graduating into this massive economic crisis where the bottom
Speaker 1: just completely fell out, and that impacted impacted millennials employment,
Speaker 1: It impacted their earning prospects. Really that lingers actually throughout
Speaker 1: an entire career for sure. And so even though you
Speaker 1: had this massive economic crash, just the fact of how
Speaker 1: much housing, food, car insurance, health insurance, how much those
Speaker 1: costs have gone up, has actually made it so that
Speaker 1: even without this you know, singular financial crash type event,
Speaker 1: gen z is doing worse than millennials at the same
Speaker 1: point in their lives. It really is quite eye opening,
Speaker 1: it truly is. And just to get go over a
Speaker 1: couple of the numbers again, gen Z workers, they're more
Speaker 1: likely to go to college, they're more likely to have jobs,
Speaker 1: and they make more money right in nominal terms, not
Speaker 1: of inflation and justine nominal terms, than millennials did. So
Speaker 1: you look at that and say, okay, well, they should
Speaker 1: be doing pretty good, right wrong, because they're paying thirty
Speaker 1: one percent more for housing than millennials did when they
Speaker 1: graduated college after ingesting for inflation. Car insurance by people
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty four more than doubled over that time period.
Speaker 1: Health insurance spending forty six percent increase from when millennials
Speaker 1: were coming out of college and having to figure out
Speaker 1: health insurance. So when you add all of those things
Speaker 1: up and then you look at tepid wage growth that
Speaker 1: does not even come close to comparing, it is quite astonishing.
Speaker 1: And it also obviously dovetails with our politics. And you know,
Speaker 1: all these people, oh, the economy's great and non employments low,
Speaker 1: stock market is a lot. You think these people have
Speaker 1: investments in the stock market. They're just trying to be
Speaker 1: able to afford a grocery bill. They're just trying to
Speaker 1: be able to make it in terms of rent. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really one that's such an incredible burden. And so
Speaker 1: of course they don't feel like the economy is good.
Speaker 1: Of Course they don't feel like this economy was designed
Speaker 1: to work for them, because it's not. And it's also
Speaker 1: really explains why you've seen such an age divergence in
Speaker 1: terms of perceptions and reality of the economy.
Speaker 3: And then that's.
Speaker 1: Trickling down into political choices obviously, but it's quite something
Speaker 1: to see it laid out like this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we have some of that. Actually, CBS News
Speaker 2: just put out a new pull about young people.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: Whether we agree with the actual numbers on Biden or
Speaker 2: Trump or not, they had good insight into what the
Speaker 2: outlook of this generation is. Let's take a listen.
Speaker 9: We're going to look at all the key groups in
Speaker 9: this election, but I wanted to start with this one.
Speaker 9: What's interesting about them is they feel like they've already
Speaker 9: been tested in their lives. This is a generation the
Speaker 9: younger part of them who were in high school or
Speaker 9: college during COVID and the lockdowns, and most of them
Speaker 9: tell us that interrupted their education. They also look back
Speaker 9: say they were more concerned about gun violence during those
Speaker 9: years than older generations. But what's really interesting here is
Speaker 9: they are also feeling like the older generation has handed them,
Speaker 9: has left them a world that's more dangerous and a
Speaker 9: climate that's worse, and that motivates a lot of the
Speaker 9: issues that they care about. Having said that, Margaret, you
Speaker 9: can look at polling from the sixties when the Baby
Speaker 9: Boomers were the young generation, then from the nineties when
Speaker 9: it was Gen X. There have always been generation gaps
Speaker 9: in America. But for this generation today, they're the most
Speaker 9: racially diverse generation that the country has ever seen, and
Speaker 9: that comes out in their politics too. They tell us
Speaker 9: they feel that politics would be better not just with
Speaker 9: more young people in it, but also with more minority
Speaker 9: voices in politics, with more women in elected office, and
Speaker 9: they feel that way much more so than the oldest
Speaker 9: generation does.
Speaker 2: So there you go. Also, the funny thing is as
Speaker 2: usual media, they're like, oh, race and all that, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: what about some diverse opinion. That's really what I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people are thinking as well. So as
Speaker 2: usual people, they can see it on the surface, but
Speaker 2: then they never estimate their own culpability. But we can't
Speaker 2: put our own people off the hook. We don't vote,
Speaker 2: you know, even close to the same numbers. Not enthused,
Speaker 2: not excited, not engage, in the political process, lack a
Speaker 2: lot of more community roots. There's a lot of reasons
Speaker 2: for that, but structurally it just means you're not going
Speaker 2: to have as much of a voice, you know, in
Speaker 2: the system, and thus the system chugs along for the
Speaker 2: old for the boomers, and for the silent generation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're certainly not wrong that the way
Speaker 1: the economy has been set up and the ideological project,
Speaker 1: you know, predominantly of the boomers has it's massively inflated
Speaker 1: asset prices.
Speaker 3: So what does that mean.
Speaker 1: That means that they're like, Okay, my parents were able
Speaker 1: to get a home. Remember the concept of a starter home,
Speaker 1: you know, the idea that you like, get a job
Speaker 1: and then you can buy it. Likes that's dead, that
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. I don't know if I'll ever be able
Speaker 1: to buy a home, is what they're thinking. They're looking
Speaker 1: at the cost continuing to go up and up and up.
Speaker 1: Mortgage rates obviously have you know, made it so much
Speaker 1: more expensive. You're competing now against Wall Street buyers who
Speaker 1: are coming in or people who are already you know,
Speaker 1: wealthy and older who can put plunk down all cash offers.
Speaker 1: You just feel like you don't stand a chance. You
Speaker 1: feel like your parents' generation had a lot more opportunities
Speaker 1: open to.
Speaker 3: Them than you do.
Speaker 1: And you know that's really antithetical to our self conception
Speaker 1: as a country, like the idea of the country, the
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, the core American dream ideas.
Speaker 1: Things just keep getting better, and you know, we as
Speaker 1: parents too, like it'll even I'll be able to pass
Speaker 1: forward something to my kids that will be even better
Speaker 1: and they'll have more opportunities than I did. Young people
Speaker 1: don't feel it that way, and they haven't felt that
Speaker 1: way for quite a while, really since the financial crash,
Speaker 1: I think and everybody who has come after, and inflation
Speaker 1: has been such an incredible burden for this generation.
Speaker 3: To be able to cope with.
Speaker 1: The wages have ticked up some, but it's not nearly
Speaker 1: an enough to deal with when you look at things
Speaker 1: like health, insurance, housing, etc.
Speaker 2: Well, you referenced starter homes. I was telling you. I
Speaker 2: read that book about Grand Expectations about America. It was
Speaker 2: really inspirational. Honestly, it was a cool country. We used
Speaker 2: to build a lot of stuff. We had these things
Speaker 2: called Levittowns. They're very famous with starter homes. So I'm
Speaker 2: looking in Levittown, New York, in the neighborhood that was
Speaker 2: supposed to be starter homes, which were very available to
Speaker 2: the average middle class. The cheapest house that I can
Speaker 2: find in Levittown is four hundred and fifteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: That is a complete starter up, and it's a condo.
Speaker 2: It's a one bed, one bath if you want a
Speaker 2: fourteen hundred, fourteen hundred square foot house, which is like
Speaker 2: kind of redone but still done in the nineteen fifties
Speaker 2: whenever it was born. Six hundred and fifty k good luck,
Speaker 2: good luck pains, six hundred and fifty five thousand dollars
Speaker 2: four house that was built what in the nineteen fifties
Speaker 2: starter home fourteen hundred square feet which was considered a
Speaker 2: starter home at that time, and no garage parking. That's
Speaker 2: the country that we live in right now. And that's like,
Speaker 2: I mean, we're not talking about Manhattan, We're talking about Levittown,
Speaker 2: you know, far away. It's probably still what in hour
Speaker 2: driver something like that. And there's a couple of other
Speaker 2: Levittowns across America. I think one inn PA as well,
Speaker 2: similar in terms of their prices. There's a good ride
Speaker 2: up there about how all the old starter homes from
Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties to the nineteen seventies are now are
Speaker 2: selling for orders of magnitude more in terms of percentage
Speaker 2: of income than they did at a time. So we
Speaker 2: have a crisis and nobody just seems to care about it.
Speaker 2: And that's why, you know, the rent piece of this
Speaker 2: for the younger generation, I think, you know, they're going
Speaker 2: to be the most like pro housing generation ever just
Speaker 2: because they got more screwed than anybody else. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: going to take a long time before a lot of
Speaker 2: the boomer political power phase away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's right.
Speaker 1: Very excited to be joined today by Peter Goodman. He
Speaker 1: is the global economics correspondent for the New York Times,
Speaker 1: and more importantly for our purposes, let's put this up
Speaker 1: on the screen.
Speaker 3: He's the author of.
Speaker 1: A terrific new book, How the World Ran Out of Everything,
Speaker 1: that takes a look at the catastrophe of the supply
Speaker 1: chain on every level during COVID and also takes it
Speaker 1: back to, you know, the origins of what created so
Speaker 1: much fragility and some lesson learns, lessons learned from moving forward.
Speaker 1: Great to see you, Peter, congratulations in the book.
Speaker 6: Great to see you guys. Thanks so much so.
Speaker 1: I just gave my little synopsis. But why didn't you
Speaker 1: talk about why you wanted to write this book? Because
Speaker 1: you were covering all of these major backups, nawfoos, shortages,
Speaker 1: et cetera as they were unfolding, right.
Speaker 10: I mean, I never expected to write about such a
Speaker 10: wonky subject as the global supply chain. I mean, it's
Speaker 10: kind of in everything that I've written about for the
Speaker 10: last three decades. But to go hard at it, I
Speaker 10: mean it happened really because we all discovered that this
Speaker 10: system that we don't think about it. I mean, it's
Speaker 10: a series of overlapping systems, a whole army of people
Speaker 10: who make our products and get them to our door.
Speaker 6: It just kind of buckled and collapsed right when we
Speaker 6: needed it most.
Speaker 10: I mean I was living in London and lockdown Down
Speaker 10: had a baby born in the first wave.
Speaker 6: Of the pandemic.
Speaker 10: Our son was born on April eighth, twenty twenty, and
Speaker 10: my wife was pretty stoic about the fact that, you know,
Speaker 10: I couldn't be in the hospital an hour after he
Speaker 10: was born. We couldn't get the usual national health service checkups,
Speaker 10: and her parents couldn't fly in from New York to
Speaker 10: help with the baby. But where we all just kind
Speaker 10: of lost it was then we get home and we
Speaker 10: discovered that we can't find hand sanitizer anywhere, and we
Speaker 10: can't even find the ingredients.
Speaker 6: To make hand sanitize her.
Speaker 10: And this was just sort of cosmically bewildering, and I
Speaker 10: think most people can relate to that. So as I
Speaker 10: found myself writing about all of the constituent components of
Speaker 10: this collapse, the container shipping crisis, the supposed shortage of
Speaker 10: truck drivers and warehouse workers, which was really just the
Speaker 10: result of downgrading people's jobs to the point where we
Speaker 10: ran out of people willing to do them in the
Speaker 10: middle of a pandemic, I realized that this was indeed
Speaker 10: a book, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, no, you did a fantastic job here, and
Speaker 2: we have this book review, which I think is really
Speaker 2: hits at the crux of what we're talking about. We
Speaker 2: can put it up there on the screen. Was global
Speaker 2: trade a mistake? You can tell us whether you agree
Speaker 2: with that question or not, But most importantly you focus
Speaker 2: in on just in time manufacturing and how the entire
Speaker 2: modern consumer economy was constructed around this global exchange of goods,
Speaker 2: and that with a supply shock like the pandemic, it
Speaker 2: threw things for a loop that had devastating consequences for
Speaker 2: a lot of American consumers. So where do you follow
Speaker 2: on the question and specifically here with just in time manufacturing.
Speaker 10: Well, I don't think global trade or just in time
Speaker 10: manufacturing and mistakes. I think the mistake was allowing a
Speaker 10: system to be constructed by publicly traded, profit maximizing corporations
Speaker 10: that were largely deregulated to do these things while we're
Speaker 10: in the thrall of this kind of ruthless form of
Speaker 10: efficiency that, as I demonstrated in the book, isn't actually
Speaker 10: that efficient. We can get into this in detail, but
Speaker 10: you know, one of the most incredible things I discovered
Speaker 10: in the book was in the middle of the pandemic,
Speaker 10: rail companies were actually sending cargo to the wrong destinations,
Speaker 10: intentionally resulting in delays and product shortages because they were
Speaker 10: so obsessed with proving to Wall Street that they were
Speaker 10: lowering their dwell time. You know this metric that had
Speaker 10: currency on Wall Street, that's how long cargo sits in
Speaker 10: any particular place.
Speaker 6: So I found this engineer in Idaho who.
Speaker 10: Is just appalled to discover that he's hauling things to
Speaker 10: the wrong destinations because some guy running a railyard in
Speaker 10: Nebraska is just attaching cargo to whatever the next train
Speaker 10: is that's moving out of there, never mind who happens
Speaker 10: to be waiting for that cargo. So the mistake was
Speaker 10: allowing monopoly companies, you know, to develop. I mean, a
Speaker 10: lot of the industries that I'm writing about, transportation, meat packing,
Speaker 10: have you know leaders who have market share that would
Speaker 10: make the robber barons blush and just in time was
Speaker 10: this idea pioneered by Toyota at the end of the
Speaker 10: Second World War that instead of just making as much
Speaker 10: stuff as we possibly could a la Henry Ford, just
Speaker 10: make what you need to replenish the cars that you've
Speaker 10: already sold. Get your suppliers to bring parts and raw
Speaker 10: materials to the assembly line just as you need them.
Speaker 10: That worked out very well for Toyota. It dropped consumer
Speaker 10: prices very low. It did reduce a lot of waste,
Speaker 10: But along comes again the paramounts of shareholder interest. I
Speaker 10: spent a lot of time looking at the role of
Speaker 10: McKinsey and other consultants in turning Just in Time into
Speaker 10: this crude imperative for companies to just slash inventory to
Speaker 10: the bone, take the money that they used to waste
Speaker 10: as they see it, sticking parts and warehouses as a
Speaker 10: hedge against trouble like the pandemic, and then just give
Speaker 10: them money to themselves through executive compensation, through bonuses, through
Speaker 10: dividend and share buybacks that make the investor class unhappy,
Speaker 10: but leave the rest of us running out of all
Speaker 10: sorts of vital things, you know, basic chemicals to make medicines,
Speaker 10: protective gear in the middle of the pandemic, computer chips,
Speaker 10: which means we can't make medical devices. I mean, we
Speaker 10: are still right now paying the costs of this successive
Speaker 10: embrace of just in Time.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most important reasons to read
Speaker 1: your book also is to really wrap your head around
Speaker 1: some of the ways that we were really lied to
Speaker 1: during this period of time. For example, a sort of
Speaker 1: micro example, you know, we were told, oh, there's this
Speaker 1: shortage of truckers, like people just they don't want to work,
Speaker 1: They just don't want to work hard.
Speaker 3: So there's not enough truckers.
Speaker 1: So you know what we need to do is actually
Speaker 1: get Congress to fund these education programs that, by the way,
Speaker 1: way the trucking companies are going to nobly run. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's not you know, that's not a kickback whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Instead of actually looking at the fact you've made it
Speaker 1: so people cannot live on these jobs, you're putting them
Speaker 1: in massive debt. Of course you have a short of
Speaker 1: strucker because you've made the job so incredibly miserable. And
Speaker 1: then at the macro level, So that's a sort of
Speaker 1: micro example that I'd love you to talk more about
Speaker 1: because I think it's a really really important one. But
Speaker 1: also at the macro level, you know, the big story
Speaker 1: about inflation.
Speaker 3: Wasn't they did.
Speaker 1: They'd say something about the supply chain, but the real
Speaker 1: problem was that people got money during the pandemic. Oh,
Speaker 1: they got the child tax credit, they got those direct checks,
Speaker 1: and people went out there and they were spending money
Speaker 1: like crazy. And that was the That was the one
Speaker 1: and only cause of inflation. Was this spending that benefited
Speaker 1: average people. Your book really takes a look at the
Speaker 1: way that that at its core was also an incredible
Speaker 1: lie in service of you know, people who in service
Speaker 1: of people's ideological project in service of hiding these corporate
Speaker 1: shenanigans also, and just a sort of greedy profit maximization
Speaker 1: that you expose as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I really agree cciate that. Careful read. It's true
Speaker 6: that time and again.
Speaker 10: I mean this to me is sort of reminiscent of
Speaker 10: how you know, the subprime mortgage crisis gets blamed, or
Speaker 10: really the derivatives crisis that then trashes the financial system,
Speaker 10: that trashes the regular economy that all of us depend on,
Speaker 10: that gets blamed on.
Speaker 6: Poor people, you know, who were greedy.
Speaker 10: About buying houses and instead of the Wall Street players
Speaker 10: who gorged on synthetic derivatives. And you know, again we're
Speaker 10: told to your point, Crystal, that yeah, inflation is you know,
Speaker 10: the cause of is the result of having you know,
Speaker 10: helped people who were thrown out of work or who
Speaker 10: couldn't pay their bills, and you know, they went out
Speaker 10: and just extravagantly blew it all on pelotons and the
Speaker 10: supply chain couldn't handle it. Now we're dealing with inflation.
Speaker 10: I mean, the reality is that engineered scarcity is part
Speaker 10: of our global economy, and monopoly power is not some
Speaker 10: sort of accident. It's the result of corporate strategies. And
Speaker 10: you know, in fact, I tell the story of how
Speaker 10: the Trump administration used an executive order to keep workers
Speaker 10: laboring in slaughterhouses, even when it was very clear that
Speaker 10: they were super spreaders. When local public health authorities across
Speaker 10: the country said, we've got to shut these plants down.
Speaker 6: People are getting sick.
Speaker 10: And the Trump administration dropped this executive order that forced,
Speaker 10: among others, a woman whose story I tell in the book,
Speaker 10: a refugee from meandmar named Tin I, who kept going
Speaker 10: to work, was one of five people who died at
Speaker 10: the Greeley, Colorado plant owned by JBS Foods. This is
Speaker 10: the world's largest meat packer. It's run by two convicted
Speaker 10: felons from Brazil who fraudulently amassed tens of billions of
Speaker 10: dollars to buy up slaughterhouses for companies control eighty five
Speaker 10: percent of the meat packing capacity in the United States.
Speaker 10: And the cynicism of this executive order was premised on
Speaker 10: the idea that if we don't keep people laboring in slaughterhouses,
Speaker 10: Americans are going to go hungry. And in fact, as
Speaker 10: I reveal in the book, at the time when this
Speaker 10: order drops, the meat packers including JBS, are sitting on
Speaker 10: record volumes of frozen product. They're exporting product to China,
Speaker 10: among other places. So we asked Tini and other slaughterhouse
Speaker 10: workers to sacrifice their lives in the name of feeding everyone.
Speaker 10: Where really we were just funneling fattern profits to monopoly companies.
Speaker 10: And that is the reveal of this book again and
Speaker 10: again that we blame, to your point, truck drivers for
Speaker 10: somehow losing their appetite for driving trucks. We've got ten
Speaker 10: times I'm sorry, We've got three times as many people
Speaker 10: as we need with commercial driver's licenses in the United States.
Speaker 10: Why is it that so many people walk away from
Speaker 10: truck driving? Well, I spent three days riding along with
Speaker 10: the truck driver from Kansas City down to Dallas and
Speaker 10: back in the middle of winter. And boy, I can
Speaker 10: tell you from having slept in the bunk for a
Speaker 10: couple of nights, from being there as this driver is
Speaker 10: worrying about where's.
Speaker 6: He going to park.
Speaker 10: He's got to caffeinate enough to not fall asleep at
Speaker 10: the wheel, but not so much that he has to
Speaker 10: stop and use the restroom.
Speaker 6: I mean, these are the sorts.
Speaker 10: Of thoughts that fill the heads of people were entrusting
Speaker 10: to deliver stuff while we're asking them to be away
Speaker 10: from their families, to have less and less control over
Speaker 10: their schedules, to be at the mercy of this just
Speaker 10: in time system where we basically treat them like their
Speaker 10: own time and their family time is limitless and valueless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Peter, one of the things that you
Speaker 2: write about is that, and also that they mentioned in
Speaker 2: their view, you know naive enough to think that this
Speaker 2: is just going to go away, But we are going
Speaker 2: to have to reach some equilibrium. What does the future
Speaker 2: look like.
Speaker 10: I mean, we're going to we have to welcome this
Speaker 10: labor mobilization. Because Henry Ford, who's a very problematic character,
Speaker 10: who I he was quite a bit.
Speaker 6: In the book.
Speaker 10: He did know a thing or two about supply chains
Speaker 10: and mass assembly. He said directly, as he doubled wages
Speaker 10: for workers in nineteen fourteen and was called a communist
Speaker 10: by parts of the business world, he said, look, I'm
Speaker 10: a capitalist. I'm trying to make my products, trying to
Speaker 10: drop the price really low so they can have mass appeal.
Speaker 10: And I need people showing up for work who aren't
Speaker 10: worried about paying their own bills and who are happy
Speaker 10: to be there and feel part of it. It's a
Speaker 10: and he specifically said, any business that's premised on low
Speaker 10: wage labor is inherently unreliable. So we should embrace the
Speaker 10: fact that, you know, rail workers I traveled with traveling
Speaker 10: maintenance crews, that they've managed to extract some paid sick leave,
Speaker 10: not enough, but some through Biden's bleed pulpit, resolving their
Speaker 10: threat of a strike.
Speaker 6: We should we should be happy that dock.
Speaker 10: Workers, who are often treated as sort of aristocrats or
Speaker 10: the supply chain, you know, their only move is to
Speaker 10: threaten to monkey wrench the supply chain to get more
Speaker 10: job security in the face of automation. We should be
Speaker 10: glad that they're well paid. I mean, those those are
Speaker 10: tough jobs. Truck driving has always been a difficult job.
Speaker 10: But back when the teamsters weren't charge, you know, another problematicgainst,
Speaker 10: but nonetheless an illustration of what happens to wages and
Speaker 10: working conditions when there's strong labor power. We didn't have
Speaker 10: a shortage of truck drivers back when the teamsters were
Speaker 10: in charge. So we don't want to go back to
Speaker 10: the seventies. We don't want the government setting the prices
Speaker 10: of everything, but we need more transparency in the market.
Speaker 10: We need the international shipping cartel, something we haven't talked about.
Speaker 10: You know, there's basically three alliances, like air alliances, that
Speaker 10: dominate the most lucrative routes across the Pacific and from
Speaker 10: Asia to Europe. We need regulations so that these entities
Speaker 10: are treated more like utilities. I mean, utilities make money,
Speaker 10: their profit making entities. But we understand that electricity is
Speaker 10: really vital. We don't think about it much, but when
Speaker 10: it fails, we sure do. And we need to take
Speaker 10: the same approach to these crucial components of the supply chain.
Speaker 1: I have a media question for you, which is I'm
Speaker 1: thinking specifically about the meat shortage thing, which I saw covered,
Speaker 1: you know, credulously across a lot of meat outlets of
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's going to be a meat shortage,
Speaker 1: and oh, I guess we just have to keep these
Speaker 1: letterhouses going.
Speaker 3: What are you going to do?
Speaker 1: You may have written about it and I missed it,
Speaker 1: but I didn't see reported anywhere what you just said
Speaker 1: about how actually they were sitting on this tremendous surplus
Speaker 1: that they were, you know, selling to China and had
Speaker 1: frozen and.
Speaker 2: Freezers and whatever.
Speaker 3: This was never actually going to be an issue. So
Speaker 3: why is that?
Speaker 1: Why was the oh we're going to run out of
Speaker 1: bacon and we're going to run on a pork story?
Speaker 1: Why did so much of the media run with that
Speaker 1: and not actually even do just the basics of checking,
Speaker 1: like is this even actually true?
Speaker 10: Well, I think it would have been hard to check
Speaker 10: the part about the surplus in real time, because it
Speaker 10: took Congress actually using its power to demand documents to
Speaker 10: produce some emails that brought that home. But I will
Speaker 10: say this, you know, I mean it's not just my
Speaker 10: colleagues and the media, it's also you know, mainstream economists.
Speaker 10: I mean, we like to think about supply and demand
Speaker 10: because we learned about it in textbooks in college and
Speaker 10: grad school. And let's face it, supply and demand is
Speaker 10: a really beautiful model that does explain certainly part of
Speaker 10: these supply chain shocks. I think that market concentration and
Speaker 10: monopoly power, you know, these are things that we're kind
Speaker 10: of trained not to think about. And the economists who
Speaker 10: are easiest for beat reporters to get hold of generally
Speaker 10: work for companies that are interested in making equities go up.
Speaker 10: I mean, that's just the reality. That's not some sort
Speaker 10: of conspiracy. That's just the reality that a reporter who's
Speaker 10: on deadline, who needs an economist to make sense of
Speaker 10: some arcane subject that they don't really know about they
Speaker 10: need to get expert enough to write about in the
Speaker 10: next fifteen minutes, can easily get hold of somebody at
Speaker 10: a bank that's invested in making equities go up to
Speaker 10: go find somebody who really understands monopoly power. There's a
Speaker 10: good chance to that person is that some nonprofit and
Speaker 10: they're busy dealing with some sick kid who's home from school, or.
Speaker 6: You know, they can't afford child kids.
Speaker 10: I mean, there's just friction in the system there, and
Speaker 10: so it's not something that we're trained to think about much.
Speaker 10: Once you start to see monopoly power in the economy,
Speaker 10: you can't unsee it.
Speaker 6: Once you're there, you're there.
Speaker 10: And I do hope that my book will be part
Speaker 10: of I think a movement amongst those of us thinking
Speaker 10: about it to bring that home for people. And I
Speaker 10: hope no one will ever see a package that lands
Speaker 10: at their door, you know, the same ever again.
Speaker 1: And my last question Peter Is. You know, obviously you
Speaker 1: learned a lot. Your book is helping us learn a
Speaker 1: lot about what actually went wrong during the pandemic, about
Speaker 1: how this almost like religious devotion to cutting inventory created
Speaker 1: all this fragility that you know, wasn't in the interest
Speaker 1: of anyone, wasn't even in the interest medium to long
Speaker 1: term interest of these these companies that were so you know.
Speaker 3: Devoted to that direction.
Speaker 1: But do you think that in a deeper sense, like
Speaker 1: the country, those companies, policymakers actually learned anything from what
Speaker 1: should have been an incredibly searing experience.
Speaker 6: I think policy makers have learned something.
Speaker 10: I mean, I think it's not an accident that the
Speaker 10: Biden administration is now engaging in industrial policy, whatever you
Speaker 10: think about that, and we're spending tens of billions of
Speaker 10: dollars in subsidies to make sure that computer chips are
Speaker 10: made in the United States. There's a concerted effort to
Speaker 10: make sure that the electric vehicle industry has time to
Speaker 10: develop in the US, which is why there are trade
Speaker 10: protections against Chinese imports. Again, reasonable people can disagree about
Speaker 10: the permutations of this. I mean, I talk to people
Speaker 10: all the time who say climate change is not going
Speaker 10: to wait for us to sort out the trading rules.
Speaker 10: You know, we need to buy what's needed right now
Speaker 10: to deal with that crisis. But clearly there's been a
Speaker 10: policy shift in the United States in terms of the
Speaker 10: people who run publicly traded corporations. Yes, there's a push
Speaker 10: to diversify away from heavy reliance on China.
Speaker 6: I mean, I just came back from a couple of weeks.
Speaker 10: In India where Walmart is shifting production that used to
Speaker 10: be in China.
Speaker 6: It's not an abandonment of China.
Speaker 10: China is going to continue to be, you know, right
Speaker 10: at the center of global manufacturing. It's a sort of
Speaker 10: marginal shift. I mean, fifteen years ago, if you flew
Speaker 10: down to Bentonville, Arkansas, and you were trying to get
Speaker 10: your product on the shelf of a superstore, the Walmart
Speaker 10: buyer would ask you, well, where's this product made? And
Speaker 10: if the answer was something other than China, you had
Speaker 10: a problem because that indicated that you weren't making it
Speaker 10: at the cheapest possible price or at the most efficient scale.
Speaker 10: And now if the answer is only China, you have
Speaker 10: a problem. That's viewed as you're putting us at risk
Speaker 10: of these geopolitical ships. I mean, you got the Trump
Speaker 10: tariffs on imports from China. Now the Biden tariffs continued.
Speaker 10: Whoever wins the presidential election in November, you could pretty
Speaker 10: much count on trade animosity between the US and China continuing.
Speaker 6: You got the shipping crisis. So these things are changing.
Speaker 10: But you know, as I say in the book, I
Speaker 10: am dubious that the further away we get from the pandemic,
Speaker 10: this will stick. Because the simple fact is that if
Speaker 10: you are running a company that's publicly traded and you're
Speaker 10: suggesting that we move production away from the lowest cost provider,
Speaker 10: or we think about more redundancy, or let's put more
Speaker 10: parts in a warehouse, you're essentially arguing, let's dilute the
Speaker 10: next quarter's earnings. And Wall Street might punish you for that,
Speaker 10: and by the time some crisis happens that will reveal
Speaker 10: that we should all be grateful that you took these steps.
Speaker 6: It's a good chance you're out of a job.
Speaker 10: Whereas if you're still saying, let's carry on with the
Speaker 10: same sort of globalization that we've all lived through for
Speaker 10: the last three decades, there will be a shock. I mean,
Speaker 10: there will be another pandemic, a typhoon. You know, who
Speaker 10: knows something we're not thinking about that will reveal that
Speaker 10: as folly. But with any luck, by then you know,
Speaker 10: you'll be on some beach, you know, in a hammock
Speaker 10: hoisting a cocktail.
Speaker 6: It'll happen on somebody else's watch.
Speaker 10: And that short termism that has driven our particular kind
Speaker 10: of capitalism and globalization is still with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, basically, if you're arguing for those sorts of redundancies,
Speaker 1: because so much of executive compensation is tied to the
Speaker 1: stock price, you're basically arguing for cutting your own pay,
Speaker 1: which they are probably pretty unlikely to go in that direction.
Speaker 1: I just want to say to people, it is a
Speaker 1: wonky subject.
Speaker 3: It's a very readable book.
Speaker 1: You take us through a small businessman in what was
Speaker 1: in Mississippi trying to get his product manufactured and time
Speaker 1: for Christmas, and you use that as a story to
Speaker 1: go through each of these pieces of the supply chain
Speaker 1: which completely collapsed during COVID, and help us make sense
Speaker 1: retrospectively of some of the things we were experiencing in
Speaker 1: our own lives and draw some lessons from the future.
Speaker 1: I really highly recommend it and I really appreciate you,
Speaker 1: Peter taking some time with us this morning.
Speaker 6: Appreciate Oh, I really appreciate you guys. Thank you so
Speaker 6: much for your excellent questions.
Speaker 3: It's our pleasure, all right.
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching with a great
Speaker 2: show for everyone tomorrow, and we'll see you all later