Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news As it happened. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim
Speaker 1: Stinevink on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend
Speaker 1: edition of Bloomberg Business Week. It was a shortened trading
Speaker 1: week coming off the July four holiday, and yet one
Speaker 1: where we were still trying to get to the bottom
Speaker 1: of the most recent round of cyber attacks. More on
Speaker 1: that in a moment. Also trying to impact a massive
Speaker 1: infrastructure spending proposal in the US. Former US Transportation Secretary
Speaker 1: Rodney Slater weighs in on how we need to think
Speaker 1: about it. We're also being pretty thoughtful about the reality
Speaker 1: of what post pandemic work is like, right Tim, Especially
Speaker 1: if you cannot work from home, it's going to be different.
Speaker 1: We'll do that though with the Chief people officer over
Speaker 1: at Waste Management. Plus the bitcoin dilemma, what really is
Speaker 1: the future of cryptocurrency and the blockchain? All that to come,
Speaker 1: but we begin with the latest targets of international cyber
Speaker 1: criminals and tim We know there are lots of moving
Speaker 1: parts and questions regarding cyber attacks and Russian involvement and
Speaker 1: Russian government awareness. Lots of questions, yet one thing we
Speaker 1: know for certain. They're happening more frequently and getting more sophisticated.
Speaker 1: Caroline I spoke with Bloomberg News cybersecurity reporter William Turton
Speaker 1: to help break them all down. We reported that hackers
Speaker 1: that are aligned with the Russian State Russian Intelligence Service
Speaker 1: reached the Republican National Committee. Now we don't know what
Speaker 1: they did once they were inside or what data they took.
Speaker 1: We're still working to find out more about that. But
Speaker 1: the really interesting thing is that happened on this backdrop
Speaker 1: of a massive ransomware campaign. So there's there's two things
Speaker 1: happening here. There's an espionage campaign happening and there's a
Speaker 1: ransomware campaign happening, and they're both originating from Russia. So
Speaker 1: Russian criminals, this criminal hacker group called Reval is conducting
Speaker 1: a ransomware campaign and very wide scale skill that we
Speaker 1: haven't really seen before where they have automated their attack.
Speaker 1: They hit one company that makes technology for a lot
Speaker 1: of companies in order to encrypt nearly eight hundred businesses
Speaker 1: as the estimate right now. So at the same time,
Speaker 1: the Russian intelligence services use the chaos created by that
Speaker 1: attack to then go and breach the RNC. So where's
Speaker 1: the Russian government and all of this despite President Biden
Speaker 1: saying to President Putin, like, knock it off. So, you know,
Speaker 1: Russian state hackers hacking the r NC is just sort
Speaker 1: of your normal espion. Actually, I mean, we do the
Speaker 1: same thing. That's standard. That's not that surprising. It's certainly
Speaker 1: interesting and newsworthy. But the combination of the two is
Speaker 1: what's really raising people's eyebrows here because the question for
Speaker 1: a long time has been to what degree are the
Speaker 1: criminals and the intelligence hackers in Russia aligned and how
Speaker 1: much are they collaborating And is it a tacit approval
Speaker 1: from the Russian state or they're getting more instructions And
Speaker 1: that's just something that we don't know right now, But
Speaker 1: that's kind of one of the questions is being raised
Speaker 1: by these things happening at the same time. When you
Speaker 1: also say, just to follow is that we the US
Speaker 1: government and other governments are doing it on other governments too.
Speaker 1: Are we somehow doing something on a similar level. Obviously
Speaker 1: maybe not the ransom ransomware side being part of it. Well,
Speaker 1: espionage and ransomware are two very different things. Espionage has
Speaker 1: gone on forever and will go on forever. But it's
Speaker 1: it's really the backdrop of the espionage happening at the
Speaker 1: same time of this global ransomware, right because the cybersecurity
Speaker 1: professionals they're worn out. I mean, ever since Solar wins,
Speaker 1: there's been one huge hack after another, so people are
Speaker 1: just really lacking the resources to respond. And and when
Speaker 1: you have a big systemic ransomware event like this, I mean,
Speaker 1: people really have their eye off the ball and you're
Speaker 1: not going to be looking for something like espionage. What
Speaker 1: is the weak link here? Because these security systems, they
Speaker 1: seem to be this reoccurring theme, right, they're only as
Speaker 1: strong as the weakest link, and employee clicks a bad link,
Speaker 1: gives some information, enters his or her password, and boom
Speaker 1: therein what's the weak link here? Well, it's it's hard
Speaker 1: to know. I think the problem is extremely complex, um
Speaker 1: and there's sort of new threats that are evolving all
Speaker 1: the time, and it's like the pace of innovation and
Speaker 1: and how we're kind of integrating ourselves even deeper into
Speaker 1: computers and networks. Isn't really keeping up with security, And
Speaker 1: I mean the Internet fundamentally was not built with security
Speaker 1: in mind. No one really anticipated that these things would
Speaker 1: ever happen. So, you know, I just don't know. There's
Speaker 1: so many week wins. But William, they are getting more sophisticated.
Speaker 1: I mean you think about how they got into the
Speaker 1: global software supply chain, Like when you start to do this,
Speaker 1: that makes it that you can kind of do one
Speaker 1: thing but potentially impact so much more. Right, So, in December,
Speaker 1: we learned about Russian intelligence hackers doing this with solar winds,
Speaker 1: and it was amazing. I mean, it was the sort
Speaker 1: of tradecraft that you would expect from some of the
Speaker 1: best hackers in the world. Right, But now we're seeing
Speaker 1: criminal groups do this. That's what's really interesting. They're they're
Speaker 1: kind of upping their tradecraft and they're making it so
Speaker 1: they don't just hit one company, they hit hundreds or
Speaker 1: thousands of companies all at once. You know, one thing
Speaker 1: that's interesting, Tim and I think on air on our
Speaker 1: daily show, we are constantly talking with cybersecurity firms who
Speaker 1: are saying we're protecting everything, and yet it seems like
Speaker 1: the criminals are the bad guys are the folks who
Speaker 1: are involved in ransomware are always a couple of steps ahead.
Speaker 1: Is it always going to be like that? Well, you
Speaker 1: have there are I mean, think about it. There are
Speaker 1: some companies that haven't been hit by ransomware right, and
Speaker 1: there are companies that are doing things right. I think
Speaker 1: you know, everyone will agree. Financial institutions, for example, are
Speaker 1: sort of very far ahead on cybersecurity where their industries
Speaker 1: are not right exactly. And um, you know, it's really
Speaker 1: it's it's there's just so much that we don't hear
Speaker 1: about because most of these hacks go unreported. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you can have great security tools, you can buy all
Speaker 1: the products, but if you don't have a team that
Speaker 1: implements them correctly, then it's not gonna work. So what's
Speaker 1: a government to do? What's what's a business to do?
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like this is something that that
Speaker 1: has to have the support of private public partner ships
Speaker 1: right in order to actually prevent it from from happening again.
Speaker 1: And we saw this in the wake of I think
Speaker 1: it was the JBS in colonial pipeline attacks, right where
Speaker 1: these companies paid these large millions of dollars in big coin,
Speaker 1: and it seems provide some sort of incentive for that
Speaker 1: actors to go out and continue to do this because
Speaker 1: the will is there for these companies to get their
Speaker 1: systems back online and they'll pay to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the option of your like a colonial pipeline,
Speaker 1: it makes sense to pay. And a lot of these
Speaker 1: companies a cyber insurance, so you know, what's the point
Speaker 1: of paying the premium if you don't invoke your cyber
Speaker 1: insurance to pay the ransom. That was Bloomberg News cybersecurity
Speaker 1: reporter William Turton tim Every time we talk with him,
Speaker 1: I just realized there's still so much we don't know,
Speaker 1: and folks get ready for even more of this to
Speaker 1: go on. Well, like you said, and it's just it
Speaker 1: seems like the cyber criminals are one step ahead of
Speaker 1: everyone else right now. Yeah, and it's worrisome. So far,
Speaker 1: the financial industry has been really good, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, right, but it just makes me a little nervous,
Speaker 1: all right, coming up securing our future infrastructure security and needs.
Speaker 1: We check in with a former U S Transportation secretary.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick
Speaker 1: Takes Tim Stinevik from Bloomberg Radio. So bipartisan group of
Speaker 1: House lawmakers have publicly endorsed President Joe Biden's five hundred
Speaker 1: seventy nine billion dollar infrastructure deal with a number of
Speaker 1: Republican and Democratic senators. We're talking about the hard infrastructure
Speaker 1: part of his deal, and that's giving the compromise fresh
Speaker 1: momentum at the start of a crucial month for the
Speaker 1: administration's agenda. The possibility of infrastructure spending has fascinated investors
Speaker 1: for years. Joining us with some thoughts this week former
Speaker 1: US Transportation Secretary Rodney Slater. He served under President Bill
Speaker 1: Clinton and before that he was administrator of the Federal
Speaker 1: Highway Administration. I feel like we've been talking about an
Speaker 1: infrastructure spend forever today. Rodney is a partner at the
Speaker 1: international well known law firm and lobbyist squire Patent Boggs,
Speaker 1: based in Washington, d C. Clearly, President Biden had a
Speaker 1: much larger bill, and I think ultimately even this measure
Speaker 1: will be beyond um that amount because I think when
Speaker 1: you consider courage spending levels with new spending levels, it's
Speaker 1: going to be an excess of one trillion dollars. But
Speaker 1: we've got significant transportation needs. I think this is a
Speaker 1: very very important step. And I think, just as is
Speaker 1: the case with all transportation measures, you have to have
Speaker 1: bills that are continuously reauthorized. Uh. And it's just unfortunate
Speaker 1: that in the last you know, decade or so, we
Speaker 1: just have not been as um uh forth right in
Speaker 1: spending the kinds of dollars we have to spend to
Speaker 1: ensure that our system remains in good shape and that
Speaker 1: we're also investing in things of the future like um
Speaker 1: electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, high speed trains, maglev trains, those
Speaker 1: sorts of things. So I'm excited about the bill traditional
Speaker 1: infrastructure primarily, though with some significant investment in broadband uh.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a very important first step. Well,
Speaker 1: Secretary Slater, and that's something I wanted to get into about.
Speaker 1: You know, there's different types of infrastructure out there. You
Speaker 1: were Transportation secretary under President Bill Clinton. Before that, your
Speaker 1: administrator of the Federal Highway Administration. I mean, you have
Speaker 1: seen our infrastructure for many years the comings and goings.
Speaker 1: Are we thinking about infrastructure in a bit of an
Speaker 1: outmoded way and old model? Should we be thinking about
Speaker 1: ways to actually cut back on the use of roads
Speaker 1: and highways rather than just building it back. And I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about things like efficient congestion pricing for cars and trucks,
Speaker 1: or efficient payment and bridge wear pricing for trucks, because
Speaker 1: trucks really kill our roads and highways, you know, should
Speaker 1: we have them be paying more that that will hopefully
Speaker 1: ultimately bring about better design, if you will. When it
Speaker 1: comes to trucks, well, uh, you know, first of all,
Speaker 1: let me just I want to step in and supportive
Speaker 1: state trucks and trains because that's really what keeps our
Speaker 1: economy moving. We are the most mobile society in the world,
Speaker 1: and we moved significant amounts of freight and all the
Speaker 1: kinds of products that we take for granted when we
Speaker 1: go to a grocery store, when we go to a
Speaker 1: department store, that sort of thing, and many of those
Speaker 1: good to move by trucks, many move by trains, and
Speaker 1: even during the pandemic, Uh, these workers were on the
Speaker 1: front lines again keeping our economy going. But you're right, transportation,
Speaker 1: I've always said is about more than concrete asphalt to steal.
Speaker 1: We have to look at new means of investing in transportation.
Speaker 1: We have to uh frankly, wean ourselves from a dependence
Speaker 1: on fossil fuels and look at new renewed energy sources.
Speaker 1: I think um the President has challenged us in that
Speaker 1: guard even with his campaign theme of building back better,
Speaker 1: not just building back, but building back better and shoring
Speaker 1: up our infrastructure so as to withstand some of the
Speaker 1: natural disasters that we're facing, especially on the coast. So
Speaker 1: we've got a lot of work to do. I think
Speaker 1: we've got some professionals to get that work done. The
Speaker 1: American people want it done, and it's key to our
Speaker 1: pursuit of happiness. So I think that there is much
Speaker 1: about the new that has to be done, but also
Speaker 1: we have to maintain the system that we have currently. Well,
Speaker 1: it's interesting that you bring up the coast to and
Speaker 1: I do wonder about that. With climate change, we talked
Speaker 1: about Florida a lot here on Bloomberg. It's caught the
Speaker 1: attention of investors. You know, should we continue to build
Speaker 1: back and shore up if we're not going to really
Speaker 1: equally do something about climate change, because it's just a
Speaker 1: case of rebuilding the castle only to see the shoreline
Speaker 1: take it down again. Yeah. Well, you know, the President
Speaker 1: has been very clear about that, and I think he's
Speaker 1: really hit on three words that I believe will ultimately
Speaker 1: define line uh, the effort that he's proposed and the
Speaker 1: effort that the Congress will actually pass. He's talked about resilience,
Speaker 1: He's talked about sustainability, and equity, and all of those
Speaker 1: issues go to the transportation system of the future being
Speaker 1: more resilient where it's showed up where it's building back, better,
Speaker 1: being sustainable, meaning a system that can withstand the challenges
Speaker 1: of freight with then the challenges of natural disasters, those
Speaker 1: sorts of things, and then more equitable, ensuring that everyone
Speaker 1: is included, that no one is left behind. And so
Speaker 1: I'm excited about what we can anticipate. I think that
Speaker 1: we've seen the system really um tested in this fourth
Speaker 1: of July holiday weekend where we've enjoyed m the opportunity
Speaker 1: as Americans to see America come back, if you will,
Speaker 1: and and it's sort of get back to a period
Speaker 1: of normalcy, especially hopefully as we've sort of put COVID
Speaker 1: in review mirror. But again that has been the number
Speaker 1: one objective of the President, freeing us from that, and
Speaker 1: then dealing with our economic pandemic, our economic challenges, UH,
Speaker 1: and then investing in the future. And I just feel
Speaker 1: good about where we are. But we've got much more
Speaker 1: to do as the Congress returns from the holiday and
Speaker 1: sort of nears the August recess and then frankly the
Speaker 1: end of the fiscal year, UH the end of September.
Speaker 1: So a lot to do, but I think we're on
Speaker 1: the right track, to be sure. I think here again,
Speaker 1: we've seen some good signs. I mean clearly, UH, this
Speaker 1: effort is not only an effort that's being pushed by
Speaker 1: the President, but you've got a bipartisan group of Senators
Speaker 1: who have responded quite admirably as well. And then more recently,
Speaker 1: the House Problem Solvers cause has stepped forward. That's roughly
Speaker 1: six members of UH, sixty members of Congress, both Republicans
Speaker 1: and Democrats. So I think that's that's a good son.
Speaker 1: I can tell you in years past, UH, those of
Speaker 1: us who have had the honor of serving as Secretary
Speaker 1: of Transportation, we've enjoyed significant bipartisan support. I was just
Speaker 1: with Sam Skinner, a secretary during the Bush administration. Bush one,
Speaker 1: I'll sit that way, uh and UM gave us a
Speaker 1: wonderful piece of legislation that was bipartisan. We came in
Speaker 1: shortly after that, took advantage of that gift. UH. During reauthorization,
Speaker 1: added additional resources. And really it's that piece of legislation
Speaker 1: that's governed transportation policy for about thirty years. We now
Speaker 1: have a need to build on that and to go
Speaker 1: beyond that, and that's why this current opportunity is so critical.
Speaker 1: That was former U S Transportation Secretary and former administrator
Speaker 1: of the Federal Highway Administration that Rodney Slater. Still ahead
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Business Week as Congress tries to figure out
Speaker 1: passage of an infrastructure plan, the world is working on
Speaker 1: figuring out how we work in a post panda the world.
Speaker 1: We get some thoughts from the chief people Officer at
Speaker 1: Waste Management. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital
Speaker 1: of the World, Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one
Speaker 1: to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM,
Speaker 1: Chado one nine team and around the globe, the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week. Recently, I moderated a Bloomberg panel on how
Speaker 1: we work, how leaders are leading and organizing for the
Speaker 1: future to make sure companies and their teams have what
Speaker 1: they need. Tim listen, how many times do we have
Speaker 1: this conversation? Yeah? I mean the big question is what
Speaker 1: does it look like? And nobody really knows the answer.
Speaker 1: I think it's a big experiment that's playing out right
Speaker 1: exactly in real time. All of this, too, is impacting
Speaker 1: employer relationships with their own employees, with their clients, with
Speaker 1: their customers, their business strategies, and their tools for tracting
Speaker 1: new talent. Well. One participant on your panel, tomlaw Oates Forny,
Speaker 1: Senior vice president and Chief People Officer for Waste Management,
Speaker 1: was kind enough to stop by our daily show to
Speaker 1: continue the conversation and how she sees work life post pandemic.
Speaker 1: We recently launched this new program known as Your Tomorrow,
Speaker 1: where we're providing debt free educational benefits for our employees
Speaker 1: and beginning in January two, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: benefit that's not only intelligible for employees, but their dependence
Speaker 1: as well, meeting their spouses and their children. And we
Speaker 1: think this is a creative and innovative and competitive way
Speaker 1: to one attract people to waste Management, but not only
Speaker 1: attract them, but we came them, tell them this is
Speaker 1: a big deal. Why did you do it? And and
Speaker 1: can anybody access this? And anybody's family access this? So
Speaker 1: why did we do it? One? Because there are a
Speaker 1: couple of things. One, our employees were asking about educational
Speaker 1: reimbursement benefit in its traditional senses, but it's something that
Speaker 1: our employees were interested in. But when we looked at
Speaker 1: the old model, it was more of a reimbursement, so
Speaker 1: the burden was on the employee to find the school
Speaker 1: and university and they would have to come out of
Speaker 1: pocket upfront and the company would pay for that. So
Speaker 1: we were looking at options for an educational benefit and
Speaker 1: we discovered Guild Education, which has been a phenomenal partner
Speaker 1: for us. And with Guild Education, every employee that's the
Speaker 1: full time employee waste Management is eligible for the benefit
Speaker 1: so long as they've completed ninety days ninety days of
Speaker 1: free employments, they have to go to a probation area period,
Speaker 1: but on the ninety first day. This is yet another
Speaker 1: benefit that we offer and through Guild, once they apply
Speaker 1: for the benefit, they get an education coach right and
Speaker 1: they will help them determine what opportunities are best aligned
Speaker 1: with their interest and also their career aspiration that's aligned
Speaker 1: with us at Waste Management. So once they come on
Speaker 1: they are eligible for the benefit and the next year
Speaker 1: their family members will be eligible for the benefit. And
Speaker 1: we looked at this for a couple of different reasons. One,
Speaker 1: we know that we're going to have to repeal really fast,
Speaker 1: and we needed an educational partner that could help us
Speaker 1: up steal and refeal the workforce to be aligned with
Speaker 1: the changes that are happening in the workforce. So we
Speaker 1: were I would like to say we were proactive and
Speaker 1: we were ahead of COVID, but once COVID hit, it
Speaker 1: really just exacerbated the need. And this was a really
Speaker 1: a good program that we're offering. We launched it in
Speaker 1: April of this year. Well, and as you said, I
Speaker 1: mean we saw this pre pandemic. You know, employers were
Speaker 1: beginning to fight for workers. You don't want to lose workers.
Speaker 1: It cost the company when that happens, absolutely absolutely on average.
Speaker 1: If we look at the our drivers and technicians, if
Speaker 1: you will, those are the ones that are most critical
Speaker 1: to our our survival as a company, if you will,
Speaker 1: And we were seeing that on average it's about twenty
Speaker 1: three thou dollars or more a year to when we
Speaker 1: lose a driver. So we can't afford to do that.
Speaker 1: And you think about COVID and the demand for drivers
Speaker 1: and technicians have increased exponentially. You have bunnies that big
Speaker 1: box stores that are you know, um, they have more customers,
Speaker 1: and more customers generate more products that they have to
Speaker 1: deliver and ship from different places, so they have to
Speaker 1: hire truck drivers and so the demand has gone up,
Speaker 1: but the supply is somewhat dwindling. I'm the mother of
Speaker 1: two gen zs, and most gen Zs are not thinking
Speaker 1: about a career driving a truck. And so what we're
Speaker 1: trying to do is bring them into our organization. We're
Speaker 1: looking at them not just for a job, for the career.
Speaker 1: And our program has called you or Tomorrow because it
Speaker 1: talks about how we're planning and supporting you on having
Speaker 1: a career not just for today, before tomorrow. We have
Speaker 1: to have a way of getting them in. And this
Speaker 1: is something that is addressing a need that a lot
Speaker 1: of people have in terms of education, and we're solving
Speaker 1: that for them. And I think this is going to
Speaker 1: put us at a competitive advantage. Tamila's you know from
Speaker 1: the panel, we talked for an hour, and I could
Speaker 1: have talked for more hours because several more, because there's
Speaker 1: so much to unpack. We just have about forty seconds
Speaker 1: left here. Help me with the debate between workers staying
Speaker 1: at home workers in the office. There feels like a disconnect.
Speaker 1: The financial sector really wants all the workers back in
Speaker 1: the office, but when I talk with the broader corporate America,
Speaker 1: it feels like it's a bit of mixed. How do
Speaker 1: you think it's going to plan? Again? Just got about
Speaker 1: thirty five seconds, Sorry, so no, I think it's going
Speaker 1: to be a hybrid. I think it's going to be
Speaker 1: all the above and not one or the other. I
Speaker 1: was on a panel with another panelist and what they
Speaker 1: were saying. I say, I'm gonna talent war, and they
Speaker 1: said it's not a war any longer. That talent has
Speaker 1: won the war, which means that they have more say
Speaker 1: in terms of how they work, and so to the
Speaker 1: extent the companies can be flexible and adaptable to meet
Speaker 1: the needs of the workforce, that's what's going to make
Speaker 1: them an attractive employer of choice. So I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be all the above. Tumla Oh, it's Forny,
Speaker 1: Senior vice president and Chief people Officer for Waste Management.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. From figuring out how
Speaker 1: we work to figuring out cryptocurrencies and the blockchain. Up next,
Speaker 1: the Bitcoin dilemma with technology futurist ian con We're figuring
Speaker 1: it out, aren't we we? Certainly? I'm I don't, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Still clear as mother Rose, but I like that.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: A great piece on the Bloomberg Terminal this week by
Speaker 1: our Charlie Wells. He says his bitcoin turned twelve years
Speaker 1: old this January. Kind of hard to believe. It's certainly
Speaker 1: been acting like it's in middle school. Is that tween? This?
Speaker 1: I think it is a tweet Well, earlier this week
Speaker 1: I got a chance to speak with someone deep into
Speaker 1: the crypto and blockchain scene, Carol. It's technology futurist Ian Cohn.
Speaker 1: But we started the conversation talking about the promise of blockchain.
Speaker 1: What is the future going to look like? Well, blockchain,
Speaker 1: I think is the most confused technology. But really it's
Speaker 1: for me, what blockchain significant signifies is peace of mind.
Speaker 1: That's how I equate that technol oology to a result,
Speaker 1: piece of mind, because it takes care of trust issues,
Speaker 1: it takes care of packing, it takes care of data protection,
Speaker 1: takes off a lot of things that traditionally we have
Speaker 1: been unable to do with databases and computer technologies that
Speaker 1: we've had, And that's what blockchain does in a very
Speaker 1: complicated way. Yes, it's being defined as a ledger in
Speaker 1: the sky, and it's uh an imputable ledger of records.
Speaker 1: But but hey, I I love the simplified definition, which
Speaker 1: is peace of mind technology something that creates trust and
Speaker 1: enables trust. Give me a more tangible example than that,
Speaker 1: something that you think has been improved by blockchain technology
Speaker 1: or or will will very soon be improved by the blockchain.
Speaker 1: Of course, there's many, many different use cases of blockchain.
Speaker 1: I love the ones that UH that are happening in
Speaker 1: the food industry. Australian beef exports are about the fake
Speaker 1: Australian beef exports counterfeit. Australian beef exports are about two
Speaker 1: billion dollar industry. And UH these foods we don't know
Speaker 1: what the origin is, but their stamped is Australian beef. UH.
Speaker 1: There's a company, I believe, Beef Chain, that's trying to
Speaker 1: solve this problem by certifying beef that originates from Australia.
Speaker 1: It's stamped at the beginning of the process of export,
Speaker 1: and you can scan the package at the grocery store
Speaker 1: and and and see the whole journey that this packet
Speaker 1: of beef has taken. There are examples such as Walnut
Speaker 1: is doing something with with produced tracking UH and UH
Speaker 1: lettuce tracking, and it's got uses when you're tracking the
Speaker 1: spread of diseases like semonela or any other contamination of food.
Speaker 1: There's examples from the logistics industry where transportation off certain
Speaker 1: types of equipment or goods or vaccines as an example,
Speaker 1: has to be under controlled temperature, under controlled conditions, and
Speaker 1: in a traditional industry, traditional refrigeration industry. If the power
Speaker 1: goes out on one of these units, it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to figure out what has happened. But with blockchain
Speaker 1: enables container ships that are temperature controlled, you can verify
Speaker 1: that information really quick and figure out that there's something
Speaker 1: on wrong. The reason why we're able to do this
Speaker 1: is the god because you can't manipulate a blockchain database.
Speaker 1: You're unable to uh insert records in it or or
Speaker 1: modify it in any way that is not authorized. So
Speaker 1: once let's use this beef example from Australia that you
Speaker 1: talked about. So once it's been been and I don't
Speaker 1: want to say stamped on the blockchain, but how how
Speaker 1: is how is it associated with the blockchain? Like what
Speaker 1: is the physical thing that becomes a part of this
Speaker 1: beef on the package that that puts it on the blockchain.
Speaker 1: So blockchain is essentially a database and every people you need,
Speaker 1: the industry, the farmer are never going to touch blockchain
Speaker 1: as such, but it powers the underlying system on which
Speaker 1: but it needs some sort of bar code, so it's
Speaker 1: something that associates it with the blockchain, right, correct, correct,
Speaker 1: And you can use r if I to your bark code.
Speaker 1: Let's give you an example. So at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the farm, you can have let's say cattle that are
Speaker 1: at this farm and they're taken to the harvesting site.
Speaker 1: Right there at that site, you have a bar code
Speaker 1: that's generated associated with a certain animal that tags zach
Speaker 1: carcass to its journey as it's as its processed and package.
Speaker 1: That bar code signifies the start of that journey. We
Speaker 1: were talking all about applications for blockchain that we're what
Speaker 1: I would consider not non financial. You didn't mention cryptocurrency once,
Speaker 1: so I want to dive into that right now. Why
Speaker 1: why didn't you mention cryptocurrency as one of the top
Speaker 1: applications for blockchain technology because I think that's where a
Speaker 1: lot of pole associated with. Absolutely, I think cryptocurrency is
Speaker 1: one important side of blockchain, but not the most important side.
Speaker 1: And that's that's my opinion. Uh, And it's because cryptocurrencies
Speaker 1: are in a very initial development phase right now. Yes,
Speaker 1: Bitcoin has been out there for the last ten twelve years,
Speaker 1: but it's waves ahead until the financial systems globally accept
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies if they do as a stable form of payment
Speaker 1: or or asset class. But that's happening very very slowly.
Speaker 1: The other applications of blockchain, in fact, are proceeding really
Speaker 1: much rapidly, and the applications are tremendous, from insurance industry
Speaker 1: to logistics, to food, to retail, education, music rights, intellectual property.
Speaker 1: There's a limitless number of applications. Crypto is just one
Speaker 1: of them. When do we get to a point where
Speaker 1: people like me don't ask you questions about applications for
Speaker 1: blockchain technology? That is, where it's something that is so
Speaker 1: present in our lives, If ever that we'll all know
Speaker 1: what it does, yep. I think it will be still
Speaker 1: some time, and it might happen in a way in
Speaker 1: different ways across the world. It may happen in certain
Speaker 1: regions or countries that are faster adopting digital money or cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: and it might take decades in some other parts of
Speaker 1: across the world. Uh. And it all depends on adoption.
Speaker 1: It all depends on how progressive financial systems and governments
Speaker 1: in those countries are. We're seeing some some countries adopt
Speaker 1: bitcoin as a form of currency. Of Salador just did
Speaker 1: that some time ago, although yes, a very small nation economically,
Speaker 1: but but that push has started to happen. Will that
Speaker 1: happen in the United States or China or once the
Speaker 1: world's largest economies. It's it's a big, big change, and
Speaker 1: I don't believe it will happen just in a few days.
Speaker 1: Do you think it will happen with bitcoin that will
Speaker 1: be the cryptocurren see or do you think you know?
Speaker 1: One thing that I hear from a lot of experts
Speaker 1: in people in the spaces, they've said, okay, well, you know,
Speaker 1: the blockchain technology is like the underlying technology that the
Speaker 1: Internet was in the A well days and and a
Speaker 1: well though is is like the cryptocurrency of of of
Speaker 1: of bitcoin. So the technology is there, but that's a
Speaker 1: very early technology and what you're going to see built
Speaker 1: on it will significantly surpass what's available right now. I
Speaker 1: think bitcoin is of it has the hype associated with
Speaker 1: it because it was the first cryptocurrency that was out there.
Speaker 1: It is it has a very limited number of cryptocurrencies
Speaker 1: bitcoins that will ever be generated twenty one million, and
Speaker 1: so it's got a few of those factors associated with it.
Speaker 1: In my personal opinion, it still has challenges. It's still
Speaker 1: has to overcome those challenges, and some newer cryptocurrencies are
Speaker 1: really far ahead, very faster, uh and and have got
Speaker 1: much more utility than just bitcoin. But it's it's it's
Speaker 1: one of the popular ones right because it was the
Speaker 1: first to market. And right now is also a time
Speaker 1: of hype for cryptocurrencies. And we've seen that, uh you know,
Speaker 1: when when certain people are tweeting about bitcoins, the prices
Speaker 1: are going up when they're teeing, Yeah, elon Musk for
Speaker 1: specifically specifically. So it's a very hype driven um era
Speaker 1: where consumers are taken by what popular figures in the
Speaker 1: tech industry are doing and which is not right, which
Speaker 1: is which is a challenge with bitcoint that it's it's
Speaker 1: its own fundamentals are better than that and it doesn't
Speaker 1: deserve to be taken up and down like that. So
Speaker 1: that's that's my opinion on that. And do you own
Speaker 1: any cryptocurrencies? Oh? I do, and it's a very instantesimally
Speaker 1: small amount. I have deliberately done that to stay away
Speaker 1: from any kind of uh, you know question that I
Speaker 1: might it may arise. I I own next to zero cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 1: Are there certain cryptocurrencies though, that you are more bullish
Speaker 1: on than than others? In the short term. I think,
Speaker 1: of course bitcoin see is the most popular one. UM.
Speaker 1: I likedra hash graph, uh and I like Ripple a
Speaker 1: little bit. But I wouldn't I wouldn't push anybody to
Speaker 1: buy them or not buy them. Do your due diligence
Speaker 1: because there are so many factors that are driving these
Speaker 1: picto currencies. Some are fast, some have a limited quantity,
Speaker 1: some have an underlying technology. Um. And I interviewed somebody
Speaker 1: on my documentary The bitcoint Dilemma. It's Dr Lemon Beard
Speaker 1: who invented the dea hash graph, and it's a it's
Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency that's much faster than bitcoin, and it's got
Speaker 1: some really good things happening with it. But please do
Speaker 1: your due diligence right and don't go with hype. Do
Speaker 1: your due diligence. Hey, and um, when you think about
Speaker 1: the future uses of of cryptocurrency, I wonder if you
Speaker 1: do see you know, like a country like China actually
Speaker 1: going through and building its own digital currency and what
Speaker 1: that means. I think China is doing something very interesting,
Speaker 1: and we know they've gone cracked down signal secondently on
Speaker 1: crypto quarrency mining, which means they're not entertaining crypto quarrency
Speaker 1: mining in China right now? What do? What will they do?
Speaker 1: There's a couple of things they could be doing. They
Speaker 1: could either be creating their own crypto currency and starting
Speaker 1: to plan the next few years and decades and how
Speaker 1: that would work. Uh. And also they could be looking
Speaker 1: at the digitization off the off their own currency that
Speaker 1: you want. That's technology futurists and documentary in ian Con.
Speaker 1: I want to be a futurist. How do you become one?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm working on that. I just got
Speaker 1: to think more about the future. I think I'm trying alright.
Speaker 1: That wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol mess
Speaker 1: and I'm Tim Stanivac. Coming up in our next hour.
Speaker 1: The one Trillion Dollar market Cap Club recently got a
Speaker 1: new member. We take a look at Facebook culture of
Speaker 1: growth at any cost, and Amazon is currently well over
Speaker 1: a one trillion dollar market camp founder Jeff Bezos got
Speaker 1: the company there. Now, Amazon's new CEO is tasked with
Speaker 1: cultivating a new company culture. How Andy Jase can improve
Speaker 1: on his predecessor's record with employees plus private jets are
Speaker 1: all the rage. Any subscription based food delivery service, is
Speaker 1: it evolving with the times? Do you have private jets
Speaker 1: or are using this subscription base? Yeah, so I'm much
Speaker 1: more into the subscription food delivery service than I am
Speaker 1: into the private jets. We gotta work on that, we do.
Speaker 1: We gotta become a better futurist. Exactly. All right, that's
Speaker 1: all ahead in the next hour Bloomberg Business Week. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the
Speaker 1: reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine,
Speaker 1: plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened,
Speaker 1: Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. I am Carol Masser, and
Speaker 1: I'm instead of a plenty ahead in our second hour
Speaker 1: of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including Facebook
Speaker 1: recently hitting that one at trillion dollars in market cap.
Speaker 1: Wall Street got it there, so too, did the companies
Speaker 1: grow at any cost? Culture. We're going to get that
Speaker 1: Business Week story in just a moment. We're also talking
Speaker 1: about another company that's well over the one trillion dollar
Speaker 1: market cap mark that is Amazon, of course, and how
Speaker 1: it's new CEO is task with upgrading the company's culture,
Speaker 1: plus a subscription based online meal plan service. We're gonna
Speaker 1: hear from meal Pal's co founder and CEO on how
Speaker 1: they are doing food delivery differently. First up, let's get
Speaker 1: to the latest mega metric achieved by Facebook, hitting that
Speaker 1: one trillion dollar market capitalization the week before last. Facebook
Speaker 1: did it quickly compared with the big tech and fan
Speaker 1: companies that did the same and tim They did it
Speaker 1: with a grow at any cost culture. We got more
Speaker 1: from Sarah Fryer Bloomberg News, big Tech team leader. She's
Speaker 1: also the author of the fantastic book No Filter, The
Speaker 1: inside story of Instagram. Check it out. The way that
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg has chosen to run the company to grow at
Speaker 1: all cost strategy, the fact that he has keen laser
Speaker 1: focused on incrementally adding users, adding the time they spend
Speaker 1: adding revenue, and has kind of blocked out a lot
Speaker 1: of this, a lot of this criticism and considered it
Speaker 1: more of a public relations issue. That's really frustrating for
Speaker 1: the public. But if your Facebook, that's exactly what the
Speaker 1: market wants. You to do, as evidenced by this one
Speaker 1: trillion market valuation, and so why would Facebook have any
Speaker 1: incentive to change from here? I really think that this
Speaker 1: is the lesson of of this week. The trillion dollar
Speaker 1: valuation came after just dismissed the FTC lawsuit on Facebook's
Speaker 1: monopoly power. So really this is a celebration of the
Speaker 1: fact that Facebook can just keep growing and and that
Speaker 1: growth as a priority is what investors want to see.
Speaker 1: I mean, Sarah, every few years there seems to be
Speaker 1: some sort of speed bump with Facebook, and I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of conversation. Okay, is this the beginning
Speaker 1: of the end of Facebook or some sort of derailing
Speaker 1: of of Facebook's massive says, whether it was that FTC
Speaker 1: lawsuit that you just mentioned, maybe the Cambridge analytic and
Speaker 1: data scandal a few years ago, a few years before that,
Speaker 1: the rise of snap and Snapchat for example. Um, how
Speaker 1: does Facebook continue to keep moving forward and growing bigger? Well,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, most of those scandals, most
Speaker 1: of those revelations about the company have not hit its
Speaker 1: bottom line. Facebook is still adding users, They're still able
Speaker 1: to expand their audience. The amount of time they spent
Speaker 1: on the platform, they're able to move into new areas.
Speaker 1: Um with the acquisitions of WhatsApp in Instagram, they were
Speaker 1: able to add young people people outside the US. And
Speaker 1: so this is this is a company that you know,
Speaker 1: they're not going to be slowed down by a data scandal.
Speaker 1: They're not going to be slowed down by regulatory scrutiny
Speaker 1: unless something comes and hits them where it hurts. And
Speaker 1: I think that the long legal battle with with FTC
Speaker 1: or with Congress or whatever it may, whatever the case
Speaker 1: may be, UM Facebook still doing its daily job while
Speaker 1: all those things are happening, and investors do not seem
Speaker 1: that concern about the microscope that's been on the company
Speaker 1: over the last few years because it doesn't hit the
Speaker 1: bottom line. Sorry, you know this because I've talked with
Speaker 1: you before. I love this line in your story. Zuckerberg
Speaker 1: runs his company like an emperor, paranoid about obsolescence. So
Speaker 1: how does that translate in terms of the internal culture.
Speaker 1: It's gotta be tough, and it's got to be all
Speaker 1: about growth. As much as Facebook says our top priorities
Speaker 1: your privacy, or use, your safety or all the all
Speaker 1: the statements they've come out with in the past few
Speaker 1: years trying to british their image. The truth of the
Speaker 1: matter is, if you are a Facebook employee, your bonus,
Speaker 1: your promotion pinges on getting more people to use your
Speaker 1: product and getting more people to to click on whatever
Speaker 1: you've created. And if you can do that, if you
Speaker 1: can add to the to the number of minutes that
Speaker 1: people spent on Facebook, the number of posts they create,
Speaker 1: the data that goes into that advertising machine, that's what
Speaker 1: they want, that's what they reward. Those are the people
Speaker 1: that ascend the ranks of Facebook. And if you are
Speaker 1: somebody who who raises your canon, says weight, I have
Speaker 1: an idea that will help um, you know, avoid Russian
Speaker 1: election interference or um, maybe we could. We we have
Speaker 1: some risks in these products. We need to clean up
Speaker 1: before we ship it. Facebook says, well, let's ship it
Speaker 1: first and figure that out later. There doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be any public uproar over about that yet, and so
Speaker 1: why would we do anything to hinder our gross? Hey, Sarah,
Speaker 1: where does Lena Cohn come into this? She's a new
Speaker 1: chair of the FTC, and people who antitrust circles in
Speaker 1: previous years knew about her because she really changed the
Speaker 1: way a traditional definition of of anti trust. And look,
Speaker 1: she's been very critical of big tech, Amazon most prominently,
Speaker 1: and including Facebook as well. Lena con comes at it
Speaker 1: differently than her predecessors because historically we thought of monopoly
Speaker 1: as big company corners the market and something is able
Speaker 1: to charge predatory prices and drive out other people because
Speaker 1: they have just this hold on it. That's not how
Speaker 1: these big tech businesses work. Lena konsmost famous paper was
Speaker 1: about Amazon, but the same can be said for Facebook.
Speaker 1: You start in one market and then you just expand
Speaker 1: and expand into adjacent businesses. Try to grow those businesses
Speaker 1: and try to create a platform on which other businesses
Speaker 1: are created. UM So for Amazon, that's their marketplace, that's
Speaker 1: aw us. For Facebook, you know, you think about all
Speaker 1: the small businesses that are running their entire livelihoods on
Speaker 1: virtual stores after being closed during the pandemic. You think
Speaker 1: about the creators on Instagram that are reliant on Facebook,
Speaker 1: the media companies that use Facebook for audience development. There
Speaker 1: are all sorts of businesses that um that look to
Speaker 1: Facebook as their way to reach their customers. That's Sarah Fryer,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News Big Tech Team leader also author of No Filter,
Speaker 1: The Inside Story of Instagram. I do wonder about what's
Speaker 1: the next chapter for Facebook, especially as it does feel
Speaker 1: like there's picked up momentum when it comes to the
Speaker 1: regulatory environment. Yeah, there is an I think from a
Speaker 1: consumer perspective, need an investor perspective, it's Instagram that gets
Speaker 1: all the attention right now. Remember Facebook owes WhatsApp and
Speaker 1: there's still lots of questions about monetation there and then
Speaker 1: Oculus VR. How is Facebook thinking about dr Yeah, a
Speaker 1: lot of questions out there still to come. On Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week, the founder and president of Para Villan, which
Speaker 1: works with the buyers and sellers of business jets. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. People
Speaker 1: haven't just been getting back on planes, They Tim have
Speaker 1: also been buy man. For more on what's going on
Speaker 1: when it comes to private air travel, we checked in
Speaker 1: with Janine Yanarelli, founder and president of par Avion, which
Speaker 1: represents international buyers and sellers of pre owned business jets. Wow,
Speaker 1: what a difference not even a year makes, But really
Speaker 1: the activity level ratched it up I would say mid
Speaker 1: fourth quarter and has not let up. It was absolutely
Speaker 1: unprecedented and continues to be so. Specifically what and who's
Speaker 1: doing what? Well? Private individuals. I would say that the
Speaker 1: bulk of the buyers for business and private aircraft today
Speaker 1: are still individuals, entrepreneurs. Uh. The driver last year was
Speaker 1: really COVID. That was a motivation for an individual to
Speaker 1: create what we referred to as a health corridor. How
Speaker 1: do I get from point A to point the relatively
Speaker 1: safely and how do I control my environment? Well, that's
Speaker 1: relatively easily done through private jet travel. That continued into
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter, but I would say the drivers became
Speaker 1: a little bit different towards the end of the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: Some of that was change in administration. That's always something
Speaker 1: that a little bit rocks the aircraft sales marketplace. But
Speaker 1: after that it became an appetite for travel. I mean
Speaker 1: the impact comes from the decline and airline service uh, right,
Speaker 1: cutting of routes, the cancelations that you're now seeing. I
Speaker 1: think people are thinking they made a wise bit when
Speaker 1: they bought their own airplane. Will that continue though, as
Speaker 1: the airline industry increasingly ramps up. I mean, we know
Speaker 1: some of the predicaments. We've heard it from some of
Speaker 1: the carriers. Not enough pilots who need to get back
Speaker 1: into the simulator and get their hours back up. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously there's an adjustment in the supply chain of everything
Speaker 1: as the economy which was shut down completely and is reopening.
Speaker 1: Do you anticipate that's going to have an impact on
Speaker 1: what you will see in terms of activity. Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And this is not a problem that is easily solved.
Speaker 1: I mean, just because demand is back, the airlines can't
Speaker 1: go simply flip the switch and put back online all
Speaker 1: the aircraft that they retired or i should say placed
Speaker 1: into preservation at the height of the pandemic and the
Speaker 1: number of crew members that they furloughed. This is going
Speaker 1: to be a multi year requirement for them in order
Speaker 1: to return to pre pandemic levels. You talked about individuals
Speaker 1: and entrepreneurs buying. Is this US international? Give me an
Speaker 1: idea of the demographics. Break it down as much as
Speaker 1: you can, Bloomberg. We love to know specifics. So the
Speaker 1: bulk of the activity in the resale marketplace for business
Speaker 1: aircraft has always been North America, even more so today.
Speaker 1: I think at this particular moment, North America is accounting
Speaker 1: for about of the global aircraft sales. Part of what
Speaker 1: we're seeing is um a slow return to the market
Speaker 1: by those countries that are now opening back up, And
Speaker 1: the first ramp up you'll see is in four higher.
Speaker 1: By that, I mean those who are chartering aircraft or
Speaker 1: buying into the fracture will share or club programs. Uh.
Speaker 1: It will take a global reopening before we see a
Speaker 1: real resurgence and aircraft sales activity outside of the continental
Speaker 1: United States. But for the moment, the appetite is extremely
Speaker 1: strong here and demand is outstripping supply, and that can
Speaker 1: also create dislocations for you. Do you anticipate a sales
Speaker 1: slowdown because there isn't there the supply out there? Good observation,
Speaker 1: It has become the concern of people in the trade
Speaker 1: today is that how good can this here be if
Speaker 1: in fact we can't get our hands on airplanes. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's relative. It's sort of cyclical, even among
Speaker 1: aircraft brokers. You know, one particular quarter you're extraordinarily busy,
Speaker 1: and then it's quiet, and I think the same will continue. UM.
Speaker 1: Hard to say new aircraft are a challenge to get
Speaker 1: your hands on. In fact, you're probably looking at several
Speaker 1: years out before you can take delivery, even if you
Speaker 1: place an order at this time. So really the focus
Speaker 1: is on the pre owned aircraft marketplace, all right, and
Speaker 1: pre owned Uh, this isn't like you know the used car,
Speaker 1: you kick the tires, you get a great deal. I mean,
Speaker 1: give us an idea of what's a what's the typical
Speaker 1: pre owned aircraft? What do you get, what's the maker?
Speaker 1: What does it cost? Well, it depends on what one
Speaker 1: is after. But let's talk about something in the mid
Speaker 1: size super midsized category, which I happen to be very
Speaker 1: well versed in at the moment because I'm offering to
Speaker 1: for sale. So I have an aircraft that is um
Speaker 1: seventeen years old and another one that is at twenty
Speaker 1: two years old. They are coast to coast capability. They're
Speaker 1: actually intercontinental capability, but it will require a stop for example,
Speaker 1: if you're going off the east coast into Europe. Uh.
Speaker 1: They are state of the art. They are mid range
Speaker 1: on their inspection cycles. This is all important considerations because
Speaker 1: points towards the actual cost of the aircraft. You're talking
Speaker 1: about two planes that you've got for sale, ones I
Speaker 1: think seventeen years old, ones twenty two years old. Continue
Speaker 1: because I think our audience wants to know what are
Speaker 1: you selling. These aircraft fall into that midsize category that's
Speaker 1: Falcon fifty x is And you know, even though when
Speaker 1: you hear the words seventeen years and twenty two years,
Speaker 1: that's really not that old. Uh, we look or we
Speaker 1: focus more on what is the overall total time and
Speaker 1: the overall care of the aircraft. And private jets, as
Speaker 1: you can imagine, are let's say, baby, a bit more
Speaker 1: than your commercial airliners. They just don't work as hard
Speaker 1: as a commercial airline or aircraft does. So consequently, we're
Speaker 1: not faced with some of the same maintenance issues on
Speaker 1: a very rapid reoccurring basis. It's going to fall between
Speaker 1: four and four and a half million, and that certainly
Speaker 1: represents an appreciation from what those aircraft might have been
Speaker 1: worth fourth quarter of You know, one of the things
Speaker 1: that we've talked a lot about, and you said that
Speaker 1: part of the reason maybe people are tapping into the
Speaker 1: private jet market a little bit more is also the
Speaker 1: slow recovery uh in the commercial airline space and some
Speaker 1: of us holding back commercial airlines is access to workers.
Speaker 1: How about in your world, because you can buy a
Speaker 1: private plane, but if you don't have a great private
Speaker 1: pilot who can fly it, or engineers to take care
Speaker 1: of it, Uh, it's not going to do any good
Speaker 1: very good point. I mean, the supply of qualified personnel
Speaker 1: is going to impact the aviation in industry across the spectrum.
Speaker 1: I would say for the moment that while flight departments
Speaker 1: established flight departments are struggling and thinking about the next generation,
Speaker 1: they're well established enough at this point in time that
Speaker 1: they can manage the uplifts they currently are responsible for.
Speaker 1: But the future is very, very uncertain. There are entities, uh,
Speaker 1: some of the fractional shares, the club memberships, they're offering bonuses,
Speaker 1: signing bonuses. Charter operators are taking on pilots, junior pilots,
Speaker 1: let's call it, starting out with far fewer accumulated hours
Speaker 1: and they might have five years ago. But all of
Speaker 1: that is in an effort to feed the pipeline, to
Speaker 1: train them, to indoctrinate them into the industry, and to
Speaker 1: hopefully retain them. Because there is some jumping between the
Speaker 1: private aviation industry and the airline industry back and forth.
Speaker 1: Some some pilots would prefer a schedule, and when you
Speaker 1: fly the airlines, at least you have a set schedule.
Speaker 1: But private aircraft is more of a as needed basis.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole purpose of having that aircraft
Speaker 1: is for some people simply a luxury, but for others
Speaker 1: it is an absolute business tool. That's Janine Yanarelli, founder
Speaker 1: and president of Para Villon. You're listening to Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week still to come. What Amazon's new CEO can do
Speaker 1: to change that company is called chair. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial
Speaker 1: capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven Rio in New York
Speaker 1: to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O
Speaker 1: six one does San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the
Speaker 1: country Sirius XM Chado one ninety and around the globe
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week. Well, any Jasse started his new
Speaker 1: job this week, his chief executive officer at Amazon, replacing
Speaker 1: billionaire Jeff Bezos as the head of the e commerce giant. Well,
Speaker 1: Carol for more on what we can expect from Jasse
Speaker 1: and really how he can improve company culture, especially among
Speaker 1: those hundreds of thousands of warehouse workers. I spoke with
Speaker 1: Heather Younger, founder of Employee Fanatics. This is a firm
Speaker 1: that focuses on how to improve the employee experience. Well,
Speaker 1: I think no matter what, he needs to be really
Speaker 1: clear up what type of leader he's going to be,
Speaker 1: uh and and how he might be different from Bezos
Speaker 1: of course, and even though he's been there, you know,
Speaker 1: setting his mark, deciding what kind of leader he wants
Speaker 1: to be and how he's going to show up for
Speaker 1: all of those hundreds of thousands of people who are
Speaker 1: looking to him for leadership. That's that's one thing I think. Secondly, um,
Speaker 1: he's going to need to take some real clear steps
Speaker 1: to listen to those people, because I'm not sure anybody
Speaker 1: has been listening and understanding what their needs are with
Speaker 1: their complaint might be, and just to be committed to
Speaker 1: doing the right thing as it relates to them. You
Speaker 1: mentioned listening, and it struck me because I just finished
Speaker 1: our colleague Bradstone's new book about Amazon, and I was
Speaker 1: struck with many parts of it. But he shares this
Speaker 1: story from a little over a year ago April, when
Speaker 1: the United States in the midst of this pandemic. Amazon
Speaker 1: is hiring so many new people. These are essential workers.
Speaker 1: The service quickly becoming essential to people who are in
Speaker 1: lockdown and need to get groceries and supplies. And Jeff
Speaker 1: Bezos made a surprise visit to one of Amazon's warehouses,
Speaker 1: but it was the first time that he had visited
Speaker 1: one of those fulfillment centers in years. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: think that's a really big mistake. I'm hoping that Jesse says,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to be the listening leader.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be going around and I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: a listening tour, go to as many as sinners as
Speaker 1: I can, even if it's virtual or in person, but
Speaker 1: in person probably better, so we can really see how
Speaker 1: people are living in this in the way in which
Speaker 1: they have to work every day and trying to trying
Speaker 1: to get their work done. So yeah, I hope that
Speaker 1: would be his first step as listening to or it
Speaker 1: is just going around, Um, you know the listening is
Speaker 1: it's no, It'll go a huge way for those people
Speaker 1: because they hadn't been listening to they have people know
Speaker 1: when they've been heard, They know when they're cared for
Speaker 1: by the leaders who they look to for guidance, and
Speaker 1: that would build a level of trust that he needs
Speaker 1: right off the bat, particularly with any new initiatives he's
Speaker 1: trying to get, you know, put through. How does he
Speaker 1: do this at scale though, because this is something that
Speaker 1: Amazon is a unique beast right it has fulfillment centers
Speaker 1: all over the world. Is that hundreds of thousands of employees.
Speaker 1: How does Jesse do this in a way that makes
Speaker 1: it look like he's going on He's going beyond just
Speaker 1: doing it for show. In the end, he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to do it all by himself. He can have the
Speaker 1: whole seas to me, he can have outside consulting firms
Speaker 1: like my employee Fanatics right come in and help with
Speaker 1: some of the listening sessions. In the end, it's when
Speaker 1: they know that they are being heard and that there's
Speaker 1: an intent to act on at least some of what
Speaker 1: it is they're saying, and they see the results, and
Speaker 1: then you feed them back do actions, telling them what
Speaker 1: it is you're doing for them. They know they've been heard.
Speaker 1: It makes it just makes the huge difference and validates it.
Speaker 1: It makes them feel that the warpant that they're doing
Speaker 1: is meaningful and they feel like there's more than just
Speaker 1: the day to day, but that there's it's leading to
Speaker 1: some bigger mission for the world. Okay, so apart from
Speaker 1: the listening tour, what else can Jesse you do, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to working with other executives to help
Speaker 1: build up that team. You know, right off the beat,
Speaker 1: if he's able to establish with his leadership team that
Speaker 1: that things are going to change, that it is going
Speaker 1: to be about making sure that they're driving a more
Speaker 1: positive culture and that every one of those people on
Speaker 1: the leisure team has to take responsibility, so he's not
Speaker 1: in it all by himself. That will be super clear.
Speaker 1: Making sure that maybe he does put someone in charge
Speaker 1: that really is super focused on having the pulse for employees,
Speaker 1: suggesting really good avenues for cultural improvements um and making
Speaker 1: sure that they're always keeping those of the front line
Speaker 1: of the customer experience right at the front of all
Speaker 1: their cultural improvement so that they're you know, it's not
Speaker 1: so just coming from top down, but maybe he creates
Speaker 1: culture teams all throughout the organization. And they report into
Speaker 1: this new person, but making sure that there's someone that
Speaker 1: has the pull. I think the other thing through all
Speaker 1: of this kind of crazy the time is making sure
Speaker 1: that that he and his team and the in the
Speaker 1: team in verse can be adaptable, less fearful, and they'll
Speaker 1: be less fearful, more adaptable when they're aware of changes
Speaker 1: that are coming down the pikes of being super open
Speaker 1: and communicative about this. What are the takeaways that we
Speaker 1: can learn from a transition like Bezos and Jassy's that
Speaker 1: that we can all apply to our own corporate lives.
Speaker 1: I think is this idea of reinvention is a big
Speaker 1: one for reinventing. You know yourself as a leader, and
Speaker 1: then how do you and then if you're over the
Speaker 1: organization as a beastly as Amazon, how do you kind
Speaker 1: of reinvent but don't do it in the stylo and
Speaker 1: don't dispute at the leadership level? How do you? How
Speaker 1: are you more inclusive in your decision making? Um, I
Speaker 1: think that's gonna be the biggest thing for leaders coming forward.
Speaker 1: And and I'm not just talking from you know, the
Speaker 1: marginalized group side, I'm just talking about generally, how are
Speaker 1: we more inclusive in the decision making process, that people
Speaker 1: feel bought into things. And when we're talking about these
Speaker 1: people that are not coming back, it's probably because leaders
Speaker 1: aren't getting a clue. They don't understand what it is
Speaker 1: They're people needed from the beginning. They needed to be
Speaker 1: listening and they needed to be more inclusive. Thirty seconds Heather,
Speaker 1: we uh, you know, we know on Wall Street leaders
Speaker 1: of publicly traded companies are judged by returns. How are
Speaker 1: you going to judge Jesse? You know, I hate to
Speaker 1: say it, but those those news articles of things that
Speaker 1: you see, the coverage that's happening with employees and our
Speaker 1: pastes leaving in their mouth. I think I'm gonna judge
Speaker 1: him by how how that goes down, and if it's
Speaker 1: gonna be if he's gonna be able to turn the
Speaker 1: tide of the negative culture and bad press that they're getting.
Speaker 1: What is he going to do to set his mark
Speaker 1: to create a more positive culture. That's how the younger
Speaker 1: founder of employee Fanatics. You're listening to Bloomberg business Week
Speaker 1: coming up, how meal Pal is putting their own spin
Speaker 1: on online food delivery. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes
Speaker 1: Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Yes, there is a buffet
Speaker 1: of food delivery apps and services to what I here? Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: we know that there's tons of options. There's Uber Eats,
Speaker 1: there's grub Hub, there's door Dash, there's there's Postmates. I
Speaker 1: know I'm leaving some out. So when one advertises a
Speaker 1: free dinner delivery, we definitely wanted to know more, Okay,
Speaker 1: So this is why we checked in with meal pal
Speaker 1: co founder and CEO Mary big and see, by the way,
Speaker 1: she's also a co founder of class Pass as well.
Speaker 1: Meal Pal started as a subscription based meal plan restaurant
Speaker 1: service back in where users picked up their food. I
Speaker 1: used to used it a ton, Carol, before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: This was the way I got lunch, all right, I
Speaker 1: love that. Well, the company now also offering to deliver it.
Speaker 1: We got a deep dive into how it all works
Speaker 1: and where it's all going. Meal Pals traditionally has been
Speaker 1: a meal pickup service, and we really focused on lunch
Speaker 1: and helping consumers save time and money when you're running
Speaker 1: out of the office to pick up a lunch UM.
Speaker 1: You know, pre covid we helped consumers reserve over forty
Speaker 1: million meals at restaurants like Sweet Green, Chipotle, Take Jack,
Speaker 1: Pick fil A, UM, you know, kind of all of
Speaker 1: the actasual restaurants that people know and are really familiar
Speaker 1: with UM. And just recently we've added on a delivery service.
Speaker 1: We certainly had a lot of interest in that as
Speaker 1: people transition to working from home and really have launched
Speaker 1: a bit of a different delivery service and that it's
Speaker 1: really geared at helping consumers save money, but making it
Speaker 1: really efficient and a good offering for the restaurant's business
Speaker 1: model as well. So tell us how it works. And
Speaker 1: I feel like to some extent it's like just in
Speaker 1: time inventory for the restaurants that they can really plan
Speaker 1: and know exactly how many people are going to buy meals,
Speaker 1: but walk it through. If I am a member, tell
Speaker 1: me what I'm paying and what I'm getting for the service. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so as a member, you're getting lunch or as little
Speaker 1: or dinner for as little as about six dollars per meal,
Speaker 1: depending on what you book. So with meal Pal, as
Speaker 1: a consumer, you'll always save at least UM You're buying
Speaker 1: sort of a package of meals. And when you log
Speaker 1: into the website, you'll see that each restaurant on our
Speaker 1: platform is offering just one menu option per day. So
Speaker 1: you might choose the kill pallet at Sea Green or
Speaker 1: the stake buritable at Chipotle. The men who's going to
Speaker 1: rotate on a daily basis, so you'll always have hundreds
Speaker 1: of choices of actually thousands of choices on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: But by having it all focused on one meal per restaurant,
Speaker 1: we're giving the restaurant really valuable efficiency and really valuable
Speaker 1: operational capacity. Um. You know, the restaurant is able to
Speaker 1: have a couple of employees make just the meal Pow
Speaker 1: meals and they're making a lot of the same meals
Speaker 1: very quickly as opposed to making a lot of individual orders.
Speaker 1: And so especially right now as restaurants are facing pretty
Speaker 1: significant staffing challenges and trying to rehire. Wir one's really
Speaker 1: getting a value out of Meal Pow because they're able
Speaker 1: to make their meals more efficiently. And I'm curious, so
Speaker 1: if I'm a member, what do I pay for the
Speaker 1: Are there's different plans? Correct? That's great. We have a
Speaker 1: couple of different plans, but our most common plan is
Speaker 1: a twelve meal plan and that's about eighty five dollars
Speaker 1: per months. UM. We also have a sixteen meal plan
Speaker 1: that's thirty nine dollars, and actually we have a trial
Speaker 1: that's fifteen dollars. Will let you try out three meals
Speaker 1: and get free delivery on those meals as well, so
Speaker 1: you can really see how the service works and and
Speaker 1: make sure it's a good fit for you. And you
Speaker 1: have to order by what time, by a certain time
Speaker 1: in the morning. Yes, So for our lunch product, you
Speaker 1: can actually order in real time now, so we still
Speaker 1: have a data algorithm we can predict where people will
Speaker 1: order from and still send orders for the restaurant advance
Speaker 1: that you can order all the way really through lunch time,
Speaker 1: and then for dinner you still have to order in advance.
Speaker 1: So for dinner you have to order by four o'clock
Speaker 1: the day of. That is really interesting. So talk to
Speaker 1: me about the number of users, because you've been doing
Speaker 1: this with that you launched this, UM, tell me that's
Speaker 1: what for five years that you've been I mean most
Speaker 1: of our business you know, pre covid, we were really
Speaker 1: lunch focused and so we did over forty million reservations
Speaker 1: for lunch, we paid restaurants over two hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: million dollars and truly incremental revenue is a really valuable revenue,
Speaker 1: really different than a delivery service provider because we're not
Speaker 1: taking a sea on each order that we sent to
Speaker 1: the restaurant. We're instead spending the restaurant a bulk order.
Speaker 1: So we can say to seakre and we want to
Speaker 1: send you a hundred orders for the same item, and
Speaker 1: they can price out what that hundred orders would be.
Speaker 1: Anything that passed some of those savings along. Because the
Speaker 1: consumers so really valuable partner to restaurants, I think, um,
Speaker 1: that's sort of a core part of our DNA. We
Speaker 1: have to have a product that's beneficial to restaurants and
Speaker 1: it's helpful for restaurants and building good businesses, and then
Speaker 1: at the same time, we want to make sure we're
Speaker 1: saving consumers money and helping them have efficient meal. So, Mary,
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by what you are doing because it feels
Speaker 1: like you're stripping it down and kind of simplifying the process,
Speaker 1: but and also reducing the cost uh and helping restaurants
Speaker 1: as well as users in the process. Having said that,
Speaker 1: how many users do you have? What's the kind of
Speaker 1: growth that you're seeing. Yeah, I can't share user numbers,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you on a daily basis, there
Speaker 1: are tens of thousands of people who are using our
Speaker 1: products in cities really around the world. So we're available
Speaker 1: in twenty markets from New York to San Francisco, even
Speaker 1: internationally in London, Singapore, UH, Australia, UM. And I think
Speaker 1: really the the name of the game for us is
Speaker 1: all about efficiency, right. We want to give our users
Speaker 1: a really efficient way to get lunch or dinner, whether
Speaker 1: they want to pick it up or whether they want
Speaker 1: to have it deliver if we want some saving money
Speaker 1: and saving time and we're saving the restaurants creating efficiency
Speaker 1: for them as well, which is really different than what
Speaker 1: others in the space have done in the past. Well,
Speaker 1: let me just push you a little bit. I understand
Speaker 1: you can't share numbers, but how sticky is it? I
Speaker 1: mean if someone when someone signs up for a meal
Speaker 1: plan or do they have to commit to six months
Speaker 1: a year one month? How does that work? Yes, so
Speaker 1: we do thirty days cycles, so it's a monthly commitment.
Speaker 1: You know, people don't have to renew after that. The
Speaker 1: overwhelming majority of people do renew after one cycle. So
Speaker 1: similar to class pass and many other subscription models, we've
Speaker 1: found that could be a really good way to build
Speaker 1: a business and and really to have some predictability for
Speaker 1: our restaurant partners as well. So you're not spending a
Speaker 1: ton of money on marketing to kind of keep people
Speaker 1: in or do you like, what's your biggest cost of operation? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean our biggest cost of the costs of the
Speaker 1: team and our engineers and the people who are building
Speaker 1: the product. Um. You know, we don't spend a ton
Speaker 1: of money on marketing. The majority of people who are
Speaker 1: signing up from meal puth. I've heard about it from
Speaker 1: a friend or a coworker. Uman. I think especially when
Speaker 1: people were in office, this is the type of thing
Speaker 1: that would catch on in one office and you'd have
Speaker 1: you know, entire floors of people at Sydney Bank or
Speaker 1: JP Morgan or Credits with all using meal Pal to
Speaker 1: get lunch together and kind of facilitating that that sort
Speaker 1: of social time of their day for them. Um do
Speaker 1: you see. I mean, I'm thinking about the established players
Speaker 1: that have been out there, you know, all of us.
Speaker 1: If we go to I'm looking at my phone, if
Speaker 1: I go to my food apps, you know, whether it's
Speaker 1: grub Hub, whether it's store Dash, whether it's UM. I've
Speaker 1: got Yelp, I've got open Table, I've got uber Eats.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you see yourself as a competitor to
Speaker 1: them or how do you see it differently? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: mean our model is really different. Right they's wanted to
Speaker 1: order a burrito bowl from Chipotle right now and have
Speaker 1: it delivered to right now, You're gonna be paying upward
Speaker 1: the twenty on most of those apps. Now, the brutal
Speaker 1: bowl might cost only two into twelve dollars, but when
Speaker 1: you kind of layer in all of the feeds, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be paying quite a bit for that sort of
Speaker 1: on demand experience. UM with meal Pal, now with our
Speaker 1: delivery product or pick up, you're gonna be getting that
Speaker 1: exact same meal for you know, eight or nine dollars.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, meal Pal is really well
Speaker 1: footed to people who are consistently ordering restaurant food, and
Speaker 1: you can kind of say like, yeah, I do order
Speaker 1: kick out, or I do want to do delivery six
Speaker 1: times a month, ten times months, whatever it might see
Speaker 1: this is going to be a much more efficient way
Speaker 1: to do that. Um, it's interesting to uh. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you have any indications that you said that most
Speaker 1: people who sign up for a month, they stay with you,
Speaker 1: and they stay with you four months, for the year,
Speaker 1: for years. Yeah, We've got people who have been with
Speaker 1: us for several several years. H. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: we've got people who have literally saved over ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars using meal pal at this point. If you look
Speaker 1: at all of the meals they reserve compared to you know,
Speaker 1: the cost that would have been if they were buying
Speaker 1: them at retail. Well, I'm going to tell you in
Speaker 1: my household too, it's just because of the pandemic. They're
Speaker 1: a lot of food ordering going on and the additional fees,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you look at it and
Speaker 1: you're right, you order a salad that maybe doesn't cost
Speaker 1: that much, but once you throw on all the fees,
Speaker 1: you're like, I just spent thirty bucks for a salad. Uh.
Speaker 1: And some guilt there. There's a lot of guilt. Um.
Speaker 1: What about your demographics of your users? Is it a
Speaker 1: younger crowd, is it across the age spectrum? Or give
Speaker 1: what can you share with us about the demos of
Speaker 1: who's using your service? Yeah, so pre COVID, it definitely
Speaker 1: stewed a bit younger. It was people who were sort
Speaker 1: of you know, they're twenty two to three five, working
Speaker 1: in offices and looking to save money on lunch and
Speaker 1: really wanting to get lunch in the restaurant on a
Speaker 1: daily basis. Um of course, stuff shifted with COVID, so
Speaker 1: we started to have more families using the product. We
Speaker 1: started to expand our product offering to be available in
Speaker 1: suburbs as well, so kind of outside of that core
Speaker 1: urban area where we started. Um, you know, I think
Speaker 1: we really do focus on areas where there's a good
Speaker 1: amount of density. Sending us high number of orders to
Speaker 1: our restaurants is really key. You know, if we can
Speaker 1: send topotely a hundred orders all for the same items,
Speaker 1: it's going to be really efficient for them to make
Speaker 1: those meals. And who want to make sure any markets
Speaker 1: that we're in or any restaurants that we're partnering with,
Speaker 1: we can really send them meaningful volume so it's beneficial
Speaker 1: to their operation. Mary, how do you pick and choose
Speaker 1: partners or do you pick and choose are Are you
Speaker 1: pretty open to whoever wants to be on the platform. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we capture ratings for every meal served on the platform.
Speaker 1: You know, if if we find that a restaurant doesn't
Speaker 1: have ratings that are in line with where we think
Speaker 1: they should be, will be talking about restaurant and kind
Speaker 1: of making a determination of whether they should say or not.
Speaker 1: I think the unique thing though about food is that
Speaker 1: a meal that I give five stars, you might you
Speaker 1: might hate and give one star, and vice versa. A
Speaker 1: key part of our product is our recommendation engine. So
Speaker 1: about fifty per of the reservations we get on a
Speaker 1: daily basis people choosing the meal that we've recommended for them.
Speaker 1: We recommend three meals for a user on a daily
Speaker 1: basis based on what they've reserved and what they've rated
Speaker 1: in the past. So we really start to understand users
Speaker 1: preferences and do a pretty good job of mat see
Speaker 1: them up with the best meal for them on a
Speaker 1: given day. But we work with a lot of the
Speaker 1: local restaurants as well. You know, hear you guys talk
Speaker 1: about Pizza earlier. Pizza Loved Emily in New York. They're
Speaker 1: an amazing partner they've got I think some of the
Speaker 1: most creative pieces in New York City. Or kest Day
Speaker 1: is another great one, or pass. I mean, we've got
Speaker 1: a lot of mom of top restaurants that are you know,
Speaker 1: maybe one or two locations, and you know, really all
Speaker 1: over the world. We've got over five thousand different restaurant
Speaker 1: partners in total. That's meal Pal co founder and CEO
Speaker 1: Mary Biggins. And that wraps up the weekend edition of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim stunt Of
Speaker 1: That could be sure to tune into our Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week daily show Monday through Friday. It starts at two
Speaker 1: pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also
Speaker 1: watch our daily broadcast on YouTube just search Bloomberg Global News.
Speaker 1: Also check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can
Speaker 1: find it at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands now,
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com and on the Bloomberg Terminal. It's
Speaker 1: that special double heist issue. You can also see me
Speaker 1: on a Bloomberg quick Take. It's available at bloomberg dot
Speaker 1: com slash que. He also streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV,
Speaker 1: Samsung TV and more. Have a great weekend. This is Bloomberg.