1 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports Podcast. 2 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm your host Lee Klaskaws, Senior Freight, Transportation and Logs 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: extend lest at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm. 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: We're delighted to have Adam Saderfield, CFO of Old Dominion, 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,159 Speaker 1: a position he's held since twenty sixteen. He's been with 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: the company in various finance positions since twenty two. 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: Thousand and four. 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Prior to that, he was with the accounting firm KPMG, 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: and Adam is also a CPA. Thanks for joining the 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: Talking Transports Podcast. 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: Adam, Thank you, Lee. It's great to be here with 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: you today. 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: It's awesome that you're here. Old Dominion's a great company. 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: Not everyone listening might know, might might not know what 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Old Dominion is. They might see their trucks on the road. 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Can you give a little background about what Old Dominions 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: all about? 18 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: Sure, we're the second largest Leston truckload company in our industry. 19 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: Less than truckload is means something less than a full 20 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: truckload of goods. Typically, our shipments average about fifteen to 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 2: sixteen hundred pounds, so we've got multiple shipments from different 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 2: customers consolidated on trailers going around the entire country through 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: our network of two hundred and fifty eight service centers. 24 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: Our company was founded by the Congdon family in nineteen 25 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 2: thirty four. We went public in nineteen ninety one, and 26 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: today we're doing somewhere around six billion dollars of revenue 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: each year and our market cap is currently around forty 28 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: eight billion dollars. 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: So LTL, which we're going to say and constantly, is 30 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: sure for a lesson truckload. So in the LTL market, 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: it's more geared towards the industrial manufacturing economy. What's roughly 32 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: your breakout between that your markets. 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, our industry leans a little heavy to the industrial space, 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: and for us in particular, about fifty five to sixty 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: if our revenue is industrially related. We've seen in the 36 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 2: past five to ten years, with the e commerce effect 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 2: on supply chains, a little bit faster growth than the 38 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: retail segment of our business, and today that's about twenty 39 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 2: five to thirty percent of overall revenue. But that's an 40 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: area that we would expect we would see continued growth 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: given the effect of e commerce on supply chains. 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: Right in e commerce shipments do they tend to be 43 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: lower weights per shipment. 44 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: They can be, But basically it's something that we see 45 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: as multiple fulfillment centers are being built around the country 46 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: to serve customers with shorter transit times. We're finding that 47 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: goods that yesteryear would have been moved by a full 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: truckload into to one super large regional DC that then 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 2: would have been goods that would have been tran transported 50 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: to a store. Now we can leverage the network that 51 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 2: we have in LTL, and what was one full truckload 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: of goods can be multiple shipments going to multiple conson 53 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: ees somewhat in the same geographic region. But what was 54 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 2: one large distribution center may now be ten to fifteen 55 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 2: different fulfillment centers, and so it just makes more sense 56 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: for whatever demand for product that was previously shipped, The 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: demand is likely the same, it's just going to ten 58 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: to fifteen different points versus just one, right, and. 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: So the less than truckload market is a lot less 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: volatile than the truckload market. Some of that has to 61 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: do with consolidation. The market got even more consolidated last 62 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: summer when Yellow kind Of went bankrupt. How has the 63 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: bankruptcy of Yellow been on the LTL industry and specifically 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: on Old Dominion. 65 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was certainly a huge supply shock and something 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: that felt like we've been talking about this for about 67 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: my entire career at Old Dominion, been aga that dragged 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: on for many years, and it was unfortunate to see, frankly, 69 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: but it's something that we had over time had tried 70 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: to somewhat be prepared for and to always have a 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: contingency plan in place if this type of event had happened, 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: And I felt like the timing was such that the industry, 73 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: given the weakness in the economy that we've all faced 74 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: over the past year and a half or so, was 75 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: such that the remaining LTL carriers were able to take 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 2: on a lot of that incremental freight. Many cases, for us, 77 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: we saw an increase with existing customers that maybe had 78 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: some exposure to Yellow, So we were doing about forty 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: seven thousand shipments per day when they closed their doors 80 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 2: and saw a pretty immediate step up to about fifty 81 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: thousand shipments per day. So the ltail industry absorbed maybe 82 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: a third of Yellow's freight. But given the weakness and 83 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: transports in general, I felt like that maybe another third 84 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 2: of Yellow's business went to some of the private LTL carriers, 85 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: which are somewhere around thirty percent of the industry, but 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 2: I felt like about a third went to the truckload space, 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: and some of Yellow's business was longer haul, heavier weights 88 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: per shipment, and so could have made sense to find 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: its way on a truckload carrier's network at a time 90 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: where there's weakness in that market. Rates per mile or 91 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: generally cheaper, and carriers are willing to do what's called 92 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: multi stop, where they'll put multiple RD shipments on one 93 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: trailer going in a similar direction and try to solve 94 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: that need for some of their shippers. So we feel 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: like that when the event happened, it was going to 96 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: take some time to just sort of settle out, and 97 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: we felt like it might take up to a year. 98 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: So we feel like there's still some settling in terms 99 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: of where that freight may ultimately land, and especially some 100 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: of that freight that may have migrated into the truckload industry. Ultimately, 101 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 2: we think all of that we'll come back into LTL 102 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: where it should be anything less than ten thousand pounds 103 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 2: more economical and makes sense to move by LTL not 104 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 2: in the truckload world, and so we think that there's 105 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: a fair amount of freight that that should come back 106 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 2: to our industry as the economy begins to improve. 107 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you mentioned, the truckload market is extremely 108 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: loose right now and rates are pretty depressed, So I 109 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: guess that could be another stare step up and share 110 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: games in the second half. That's kind of when we're 111 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: expecting the spot truckload market to start to tighten up. 112 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: So that could be a pretty good for tonnage. And 113 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, when you kind of take away Yellow, how 114 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 1: has LTL demand been over the last couple of months. 115 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: You know, it seems like underlying demand has has just 116 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: been flatish, and it has felt that way for a 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 2: long time, maybe a year year and a half. If 118 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: we go back for us and you just take the 119 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: Yellow event out of the equation, our shipments per day 120 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: really were have been flat or even declining month over month. 121 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 2: They were from April of twenty two to December, and 122 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: then we kind of leveled out in December and we're 123 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: pretty consistent at about forty seven thousand shipments per day 124 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 2: really until Yellow closed their doors, like I mentioned earlier, 125 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: and we sort of had a step function change at 126 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 2: that time, but when things settled pretty quickly, I felt 127 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: like in the fourth quarter we finally started seeing some 128 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 2: kind of return to normal seasonal trends. We had a 129 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 2: little bit of a seasonal uplift in September of last year. 130 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: There was a little bit of noise in the fourth quarter, 131 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: but if you kind of take that out, and it 132 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: created some incremental freight for us, but kind of take 133 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: that noise out and we performed similar to what our 134 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: normal seasonal trends would have otherwise been. And it's felt 135 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: that way as we've started this year out as well, 136 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: So you know, there's been some developing trends. We're still 137 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: in a slow economy. Underlying demand still feels flatish, but 138 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: it feels like there's some signs of life out there, 139 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: if you will through customer conversations reading some of the 140 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: macroeconomic data. We look at ism in particular because the 141 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 2: exposure to the industrial market that we talked about earlier, 142 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: and that's something that im still below fifty it has 143 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: been for fifteen straight months. But if you kind of 144 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: look at some of the sub data points, it indicates that, hey, 145 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: maybe things might start improving here in the near term, 146 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: So a lot of developing trends that we hope will 147 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: lead to incremental freight opportunities as we make our way 148 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: through twenty twenty four. 149 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: Right, And you mentioned ism, so is that a leading 150 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: indicator for the LTL market? 151 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: It generally has been. It's very correlated with industry volumes, 152 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: so that's probably one of the most important metrics that 153 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 2: we look at. We look at inventory to sales trends 154 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: as well to try to get somewhat of a feel 155 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 2: on the retail side, and we balance all of those 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,479 Speaker 2: macro factors with direct feedback that we get from our customers, 157 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: and really that's the best information that we can take 158 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: and kind of build out our plan going into the 159 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: next fiscal year when we prepare for what we're going 160 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: to spend on capital expenditures and kind of what our 161 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: growth ambitions for any year might be. We try to 162 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 2: take all those factors consideration. But you know, on the 163 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: retail side, I mentioned some of the developing trends. On 164 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: the industrial side, we feel like there's been somewhat a 165 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: balancing out of inventory levels and levels that have been 166 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 2: built up post pandemic, where many retailers may have missed 167 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 2: out on some sales opportunities and inventory balances had been 168 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: built up, and there was this belief that we may 169 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: settle into a just in case type of inventory management 170 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: style post pandemic. It seems like we quickly have reverted 171 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: back to the old classic just in time and that's 172 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 2: a good trend that will develop for Old Dominion. With 173 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: just in time inventory trends, shippers need to select a 174 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: carrier that can provide high quality service and value to 175 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: the supply chain. And that's exactly what Old Dominion fulfills 176 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: for our shippers. The value proposition of given ninety nine 177 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: percent on time service industry leading claims ratio of zero 178 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 2: point one percent, it ultimately leads to value in the 179 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 2: supply chain. And so we think that that will create 180 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: some incremental opportunity for OD this year as well. 181 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to keep on talking about Yellow, which 182 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: I think probably it'll on the be a case study 183 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: for most future NBA students about acquisition's gone bad and 184 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: what happens when you don't invest in your network. 185 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: But you know, so there's. 186 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: One large player that's gone that's consolidated the market, but 187 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: they're also you know, a lot of these LTL carriers 188 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: have a footprint of assets, facilities all over the country. 189 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: Where do you think those assets are going? You know, 190 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: there's been a one, there's been a series of bids 191 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,599 Speaker 1: for assets. I believe you guys didn't get any of 192 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: this this round. Do you think some of those facilities 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: just leave the market and go elsewhere? Are you guys 194 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: interested and maybe like some of the facilities that are 195 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: still still available. 196 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: We believed at the beginning of the process that there 197 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: would be a fair amount of capacity that would ultimately 198 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: exit the market, and I think you know that will 199 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 2: ultimately be the case based on the process that's played 200 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 2: out thus far. You know, a fair amount of the 201 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 2: owned assets that they had have been purchased by other 202 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: LTL carriers. Some have been purchased by non LTL carriers. 203 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: But there's a fair amount of door capacity that previously 204 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: existed that is still available, if you will, and ultimately 205 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 2: I think a large percentage of that overall door capacity 206 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: will leave our market. So, you know, we think back 207 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: two years ago, before this event happening, we were a 208 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: capacity constrained industry in lt L. And while it's going 209 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: to take some a little bit of time here in 210 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: the very short term to figure out what capacity comes 211 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: back on line with maybe a different logo on the door, 212 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 2: but ultimately, if you have one hundred percent of that 213 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 2: LTL volume, that's got to be moved and the capacity 214 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: that it previously existed is now going to be reduced 215 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: even further. I believe we will continue to be a 216 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 2: capacity constrained industry and that's been an advantage for Old Dominion. 217 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: We've been consistently investing in new capacity over time. We 218 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: have spent a little over two billion dollars in the 219 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 2: last ten years expanding the reach of our real estate network, 220 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 2: building out new capacity, and that's supported the improvement and 221 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 2: the increase in shipments per day that we've seen over 222 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 2: time as well our industry with the other at least 223 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: the other public carriers have seen a net reduction and 224 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 2: available capacity and have actually seen a net reduction in 225 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: shipments per day managed by those other publicly traded carriers. 226 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: So you know, we always try to stay ahead of 227 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 2: the growth curve. We feel like service is what wins 228 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: share for us, and I believe that continues into the 229 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: future value of the service offering that we have at 230 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: Old Dominion. We should be able to create further market 231 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: share wins for us, and we want to make sure 232 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: that our network is never a limiting factor to growth, 233 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: so we try to stay ahead of the growth curve. 234 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: We generally target having about twenty five percent excess capacity 235 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 2: in our service centers. Today, given the consistent investments that 236 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: we made through last year when our business levels were 237 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: a little slower, we're probably at thirty percent or so 238 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: excess capacity. So we're a little bit heavy versus our 239 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 2: long term trend. But you know, things change very quickly 240 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: in LTL, and we want to make sure that we've 241 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 2: got the capacity in place to be able to respond 242 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: to shipper needs if and when the demand environment does 243 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: inflect back to the positive. 244 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: Right and so with that access capacity, not only can 245 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: you handle more shipments, more tonnage, but you can do 246 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: so at the consistent high level of service that old Dominion. 247 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 2: Is known for exactly, and that's been the key is 248 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: we always want to make sure that we're maintaining our 249 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: service standards. Even over the past year when business levels 250 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: were slower and we lost density in our network. The 251 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 2: first priority was always to protect service for our customers 252 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 2: and keep providing the value that they expect from us. 253 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: So we're very pleased that last year, even with a 254 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 2: nine percent decrease in tonage that we had, that our 255 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 2: service standards actually improved and we continued to deliver ninety 256 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 2: nine percent on time in our claims ratio is point 257 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: one percent in twenty twenty three. 258 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: Okay, And do you see further consolidation the LTL market, 259 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: whether it's to M and A or more bankruptcies. 260 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing will be a continuation of 261 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: what we've seen. We thought many many years ago, as 262 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: part of our strategic planning process, that the industry would 263 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: consolidate at the top with several large national, non union providers, 264 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: and that's what we've seen play out over the last 265 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: ten years. We've been the the biggest market share winner, 266 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 2: but kind of the three that follow us are more 267 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 2: national non union providers. So I think that a lot 268 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: of the new market growth will continue to be to 269 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 2: those larger carriers and those that have the ability to 270 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: invest in some new capacity. I honestly think that our 271 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: industry could have grown more over the past ten years 272 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: than it has, but that lack of capacity that existed 273 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 2: with other carriers prevented some of that market growth that 274 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: created market share opportunities for us, and even if other 275 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: companies have some of their own growth ambitions, I feel 276 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 2: like there's plenty of growth opportunity around and that it 277 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: would not impact our own market share initiatives and ability 278 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: to grow into the future. Right, an old dominion. 279 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: For as long as I've been following you guys, which 280 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: has been quite some time, you guys have always been 281 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: a share taker, correct. 282 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: Well, we like to think about it as we win 283 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: market share, win it on service and not just going 284 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: out and try to take share from someone. And I 285 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: think that's what we've proven over time as we've continued 286 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: to kind of win over new customers, continue to win 287 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: market share with existing customers. But it's all about proving 288 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: out the value proposition and what we can how we 289 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: can partner with our customers to keep growing and improving together. 290 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: So you know, I feel like that opportunity continues as 291 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: as we progress into the future, and it's why we 292 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: are committed to continuing to build out our network and 293 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: to continue to invest in the people in the fleet 294 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: that we will also need to be able to continue 295 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: to grow. You know, it's our people that really make 296 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: the difference. And make OD who we are and I 297 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: think that will continue to be the biggest market advantage 298 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 2: that we have as our OD people. 299 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: You know, you clarified something that I said. You said 300 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: you're not a share taker. You know, you win share 301 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: and it's and it's I think that's worth noting because 302 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: the you know, because the lt O market is so 303 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: much more consolidated, there's a lot more rational pricing out 304 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: there relative to the truckload market. Can you talk about 305 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: where you see pricing going from today? I know it's 306 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: been strong over the last couple of years now. 307 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, our philosophy is a little bit different 308 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: from everyone else in the industry, I think, and we 309 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: try to be fair with our customers and have a 310 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: philosophy that we want to be cost focused with the 311 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: increases that we look for each year, and so we 312 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: target cost plus pricing to offset the cost inflation that 313 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: we're seeing, but also to continue to support the investments 314 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: and capacity and technology as well. And those are two 315 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: of the things that our customers are asking for us, 316 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: and so you know, it's up to us. Though it's 317 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: easy to say that you want to be cost plus, 318 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: we've got to do our job of managing our cost 319 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 2: inflation day by day, year by year to make sure 320 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: that if we get our cost plus pricing, that we're 321 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: not out of alignment with the market. And I think 322 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 2: that's what we've been able to achieve over time. Over 323 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 2: the last ten fifteen years, we've been able to keep 324 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: our core cost inflation on the three and a half 325 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: to four percent on a per shipment basis range, and 326 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: that's created an increase in sort of core pricing of 327 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: about five to five and a half percent. And so 328 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: I think that model can continue to work for us, 329 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: and the formula works. Improvements and density and yield have 330 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: led to long term improvement in our operating ratio. Generally, 331 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: both of those initiatives require a little support from the 332 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: macro economy, but we anticipate those two key ingredients, if 333 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: you will, will continue to play out over time. And 334 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: I think that our philosophy and our approach will be 335 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: supported by the continued strength in the industry as well. 336 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 2: And as some of the other carriers have now invested 337 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: in new capacity and maybe they haven't done that in 338 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 2: the past, several have got initiatives underway to try to 339 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 2: improve their service. All of the things that others are doing, 340 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 2: are creating incremental cost and so I would expect that 341 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: we're going to see our competition with higher cost inflation 342 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: perhaps than what we're facing. That's likely going to need 343 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: to lead to higher rates for their service. And generally 344 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 2: in an environment when we get into a strong demand 345 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: environments usually when we see this, but when we get 346 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: into an environment where our competition or raising rates faster 347 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: than us, not only does it support our approach to pricing, 348 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: but it also creates incremental volume opportunities for us. 349 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: Right when you're looking at an LTL carrier, you know 350 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: where maybe more specifically old dominion, what's a bigger lever 351 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: for margins and earnings? Is it pricing or is it tonnage. 352 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: Well, it's both, and like I said, you got to 353 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: have both. I mean, if you're just really thinking in 354 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 2: the short run, you know, obviously any incremental a dollar 355 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: dollar of new profit goes to the bottom line, but 356 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: a dollar cost savings goes to the bottom line as well, 357 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: So you know, they're all equally important. And for us, 358 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 2: it's maintaining that fair and balanced approach with our pricing, 359 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: like I mentioned, but we've built our network up for 360 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 2: growth and so as we grow volumes through this incremental 361 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: capacity we built into our network, that creates leverage on 362 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: the fixed cost overhead that we have in place, and 363 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: that leads to bottom line improvement as well. But then 364 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 2: you've got to have a focus on managing cost, and 365 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 2: that's got to be a day by day battle. You've 366 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: got to think about managing cost and protecting cost whether 367 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: you're in a good, positive environment or in a slower environment. 368 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times companies really get 369 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 2: focused on this when maybe the demand environment is weaker 370 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: and there's pressure on the top line. But my philosophy 371 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 2: is if you're not focused on saving money and saving 372 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 2: cost and thinking about returns on any dollar that you 373 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: ever spend, you probably don't know where to start if 374 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 2: you haven't been doing it before. And so that's a 375 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: focus for us every day is always thinking to be 376 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: thinking about how we manage our discretionary spending. 377 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: Right And roughly, what percentage of your costs are fixed 378 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: versus variable? 379 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: Overall costs are about seventy five percent variable for us, 380 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 2: So it's a pretty nice breakdown when you think about 381 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 2: our industry is generally thought to be very high fixed costs, 382 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: but you know, we operated last year with a seventy 383 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 2: two operating ratio, and if you kind of deconstruct that, 384 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 2: about fifty three percent of our costs were direct variable 385 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 2: cost associated with moving freight in about nineteen percent of 386 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: our revenue, where the overhead costs that are more fixed 387 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 2: than nature, some of those have a little variability to them, 388 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: but those costs as a percent of revenue on the 389 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 2: overhead side reflect that the top line weakness that we 390 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: saw last year with the slower domestic economy, and so 391 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 2: that kind of moved up the scale. Typically have seen 392 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: those in a range of maybe sixteen percent up to twenty. 393 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: So I feel like once we start getting volume and 394 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: revenue back through the network, that's an area of focus 395 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: that should be able to shift those costs further down 396 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: that sliding scale if you will get leveraged there initially. 397 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: And that's typically what we've seen in prior environments where 398 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: when that year of inflection, we see very good operating 399 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: ratio improvement, and it's more so in that overhead line. 400 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the operating ratio, for those that aren't familiar 401 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: with it, it's the inverse of an ebit margin or 402 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: operating income margin. 403 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 2: So lower the number. 404 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: The better old dominion, as Adam mentioned, was seventy two 405 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: percent last year, which deteriorate by one hundred and forty percent. 406 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: In the Street is expecting an improvement of one hundred 407 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: and twenty basis points this year and another one hundred 408 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: and thirty basis points in twenty twenty five, which should 409 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: drive heists or actually mid teens earnings growth over the 410 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: next two years based on Concents data that's on the 411 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. 412 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 2: Hopefully you think. 413 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: That's that's lower. Maybe the earnings growth will be higher 414 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: than that next year. 415 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to comment on I knew you wouldn't 416 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: not going to take that bait. But you know, we've 417 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: got a long term formula that I think continues to work, 418 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: and you know, usually the best years for o D 419 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: where we really prove our value proposition, we're in those 420 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: years of inflection. If I look back into twenty twenty one, 421 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 2: we grew our shipments per day that year nineteen and 422 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: a half percent. The other public carriers grew four percent. 423 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: Twenty eighteen was another strong environment where we grew ten percent, 424 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: the industry grew one percent. So you know that's usually 425 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: the year where we get to take advantage of those 426 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: big upswings in the market, and we really see no 427 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: difference in terms of the industry makeup that would lead 428 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: us to believe that anything would be different once we 429 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: get into this next eventual upswing. 430 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, the LTL industry has been very 431 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: interesting when you look at the stocks. The BILTL peer 432 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: group is up around three hundred and sixty five percent 433 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: over the last five years versus the S and P 434 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: five hundred which is up eighty two percent. So this 435 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: industry is kind of like the tech of transportation in 436 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: terms of stock movements. It's a pretty interesting industry to 437 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: watch with a lot of nuances amongst the players. And 438 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: for old dominion. You know, you keep on talking about 439 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: investing in your network. I know you guys set a 440 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: CAPEX target for around seven hundred and fifty million and 441 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. What are you guys spending your money on? 442 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: Is that more than last year less than last year? 443 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: If you can give some color around CAPEX, that'd be great. 444 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 2: Sure, it's about the same as what we spend in 445 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, but generally we spend ten to fifteen 446 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: percent of our revenue on capital expenditures every year and 447 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 2: pretty consistent breakout in terms of percent of revenue between 448 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: our real estate expenditures. This year, we've allocated about three 449 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars on the real estate side, 450 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: So that could be anything from new land, could be 451 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: expanding existing facilities, building new facilities, or buying an existing facility, 452 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 2: if you will. But you know, we try to target 453 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 2: where we think we need to grow our two hundred 454 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: and fifty eight service centers today we think will continue 455 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: to increase the size of our network over time as 456 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 2: we continue to grow the top line, just to keep 457 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: pace and maintain that balance of excess capacity that I 458 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: referenced earlier. But then on the fleet side, we've got 459 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: three hundred and twenty five million dollars allocated for tractors 460 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: and trailers this year, and frankly that's a little bit 461 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 2: heavier following a slow year than what we've seen, but 462 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: we still had some deferred maintenance cap acx. That goes 463 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: back to post pandemic with some of the challenges that 464 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: we had some issues with getting parts and things like that, 465 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 2: where we just maintain our fleet to be a little 466 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 2: bit heavier and frankly, it was a little bit older 467 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,640 Speaker 2: than we wanted to see as well, so we made 468 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: some progress there in twenty twenty three. We finished last 469 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 2: year with our power fleet, our tractors, the average age 470 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: was about four and a half years old, and that's 471 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 2: fairly consistent. Maybe still a little bit higher than we'd 472 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: like to see, just from an optimization standpoint and balancing 473 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: our maintenance costs, promile and the overall efficiency of the fleet. 474 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: But so we'll continue to spend there and try to 475 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 2: get the fleet where it needs to be from an 476 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 2: average age standpoint and and you know, hopefully be ready 477 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 2: for that next up swing whenever it happens with the 478 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: economy to make sure that we've got you know, not 479 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: only the service centers, but we've got all the equipment 480 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: in place that would be necessary as well. It's kind 481 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: of the equipment and the people that there are other 482 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 2: two pieces of the the supply equation, if you will, 483 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 2: where we've got to maintain capacity right and so lt. 484 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: On Networks they have their linehull networks, which is between 485 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: the company's facilities and the pickup and delivery where you're 486 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: just as it sounds like you're picking up free from 487 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,879 Speaker 1: customers and delivering to customers. Can you talk about a 488 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: truck's life cycle within od's network. 489 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,479 Speaker 2: Sure. For us, we generally have a new tractor that 490 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: could spend three to four years of its initial life 491 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 2: primarily in our line haul operations, and we do that 492 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 2: that's where we're driving the most miles, So we want 493 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 2: the newest, most fuel efficient equipment there and that piece 494 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: of the operation, and then it generally moves for the 495 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 2: rest of its life. We may use a tractor for 496 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: ten years, it'll spend the rest of its life primarily 497 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 2: in a pick up delivery operation where the mileage each 498 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 2: year is usually not as significant. Now, there's certain areas 499 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: where and optimally when we can you can use a 500 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: tractor practically twenty four hours a day. It can run 501 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: pickup delivery, you know, during the day, and then make 502 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: a line haul run in the evening. Generally these are 503 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: in smaller locations, so you know, you might run a 504 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: tractor that's going to a nearby break book facility if 505 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 2: you will, a little bit shorter link the pall. 506 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: Yes, and there's also you know a lot of talk 507 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: about electric trucks, whether they work or don't work in 508 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: the industry has old Dominion been testing electric trucks at all. 509 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: We have. We've got one Class eight electric tractor out 510 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 2: in California that we've been testing now, and we've got 511 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 2: some electric switchers that we use on the yard they 512 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 2: don't drive on the highway, but moving trailers around the facility, 513 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 2: and some electric forklifts that we've been testing as well. 514 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: And the Class eight tractor. You know, it has not 515 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 2: been able to really to deliver the operational needs that 516 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 2: that we would would want, you know, but we felt 517 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: like even though with meeting with the OEMs that that 518 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 2: you know, based on the statistics that they would tell 519 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: us that we didn't think it met our operational needs. 520 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 2: We felt like it was something that we needed to 521 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 2: invest in and to really be trying and to provide, 522 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: you know, our own empirical data back to the OEMs 523 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: to say what our needs would be. But but you know, 524 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: it's something in California in particular, where those those laws 525 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: are changing and we might have to potentially meet with 526 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 2: some new regulations before maybe the UH the manufacturing industry 527 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: can deliver on all the new equipment needs that I 528 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: would otherwise UH would be there to meet that regulatory 529 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: need and you know, the cost is much greater than 530 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 2: existing equipment if you can't get the mileage there. It's 531 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: just something that right now I think we're we're probably 532 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 2: a little bit ahead of you know, what can truly 533 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 2: be delivered from an equipment standpoint in terms of of 534 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: comparing a traditional classic tractor with with the electric option. 535 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: Right, and so as the CFO, you know, what are 536 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 1: what are old dominions priorities when it comes to your 537 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: capital in terms of dividend, buybacks, what what what do 538 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: you are looking to do or pay down debt? 539 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 2: Well, fortunately we don't have a lot of debt, and 540 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: that's something that that frees us up, if you will, 541 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 2: and allows us to really focus on our number one 542 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: priority for for capital allocation as reinvesting back in ourselves 543 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 2: for new growth. And we've got tremendous returns on our 544 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,239 Speaker 2: invested capital and we want to see those continue. And 545 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: so it's it's all about making sure that there is 546 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,719 Speaker 2: an appropriate return on any dollar invested though, and so 547 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 2: whether that's spending on our expanding the service inter network 548 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 2: and new equipment, our IT expenditures and so forth, you 549 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 2: know that that will continue to be the focus and 550 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: maintaining that ten to fifteen percent of revenue spend is 551 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: kind of what we see continuing After that, it becomes 552 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: returning any excess capacity or excess capital back to our 553 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 2: shareholders that we have, and we've got the fixed form 554 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 2: of return in the dividend policy that we created back 555 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen. That's something that we started out with 556 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: a pretty modest dividend, but we've grown it every year 557 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 2: since we put it in place. And then we like 558 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 2: the buyback program that we started in twenty fourteen. It 559 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 2: gives us a little bit more flexibility, if you will, 560 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 2: in terms of the dollars that we return in any 561 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: given year. But we sort of use that. We look 562 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 2: at what we anticipate our cash room operations would be 563 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: in any given year, what we're going to invest back 564 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: in our business and in ourselves, and then that balance 565 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: becomes flexible in terms of what we can return to shareholders. 566 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: Right and I recently say you guys today as OX split, 567 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: it was this weeker last week. 568 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, we just announced the stock split that will be 569 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: effective later in March, and that's something that we've we've 570 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 2: done in our past. That's this will be the first 571 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: two for one split that we've had. But it's something 572 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: that that our employees in particular I really appreciate and 573 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 2: just improves the affordability of the stock price. We're very 574 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: fortunate with what the success of the company has been, 575 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: and that's a reflection what our employees have been able 576 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,959 Speaker 2: to deliver with consistent revenue growth and improving our operating 577 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 2: ratio and doing both of those in combination has led 578 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 2: to an average return on our share price of twenty 579 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,719 Speaker 2: eight percent each year over the last ten years. And 580 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 2: you know, as our stock price performances has reflected our 581 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: company success, we've just tried to split it along the 582 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: way and maintained a little sense of affordability there. 583 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: Right, So, speaking of employees, you know you were mentioned 584 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: earlier about access capacity. I'm assuming when you're talking about 585 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: access capacity you're talking about the physical capacity. You're not 586 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: talking you don't have like employees that are idle. So 587 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: if if that's true, how easy it is it to 588 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: ramp up, uh, your your labor force. 589 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're exactly right when we talk about that 590 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: excess capacity that's really in our service center network because 591 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: it can take so much time, uh to build out 592 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 2: a new service center. You you got to stay further 593 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: ahead of the game. You know, we maintain a little 594 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: excess capacity with our fleet, but that becomes very expensive 595 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: if you've got too many IDOL tractors and trailers sitting 596 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: around on the yards and and uh and to your point, 597 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 2: if we had that much excess capacity, we'd have a 598 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: lot of unhappy employees if they weren't getting the miles 599 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: uh to run, and it'd be reflected in their their paychecks. 600 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 2: But uh, but but that's something that you know, is 601 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: is is always difficult to balance. And for us, we 602 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 2: we try to uh we invest so heavily in our 603 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 2: dry we try to protect all employees as best we can. 604 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 2: And one of the things that that we did last 605 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: year as we've gone through this you know, slower market, 606 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: if you will, was drivers that have gone through our 607 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 2: internal truck driving school. In particular, we've trained about a 608 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 2: third of our own driver workforce, and many of those employees, uh, 609 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 2: they start their careers on our docks, so they are 610 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 2: a platform employee that that kind of raised their hand 611 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: and say they'd like to get into driving. So we 612 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 2: put them through the schools. They earned their CDL and 613 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 2: generally they started a driving career when when demand dictates. 614 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: Last year, when when things are slower, some of those 615 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: newer drivers, if you will, went back to performing a 616 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 2: dock operation. And so we we kind of had those 617 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: combo employees that were around and so probably excess driver capacity, 618 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 2: and we were paying them like a driver while they 619 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 2: were performing a different job function. But when you yellow 620 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: close their doors, we were able to put them right 621 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: back into a truck and satisfy our customer needs pretty 622 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 2: immediately without any impact on service. And the same can 623 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: be said for as we go forward. We're always trying 624 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 2: to build a pool of our own drivers that will 625 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: be willing and ready to take a seat in a 626 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: truck and satisfy our customers when that demand level dictates. 627 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,280 Speaker 2: So that's something that we have restarted our truck driving 628 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 2: schools up and trying to get ahead of the game, 629 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: if you will, to be ready for whenever the upswing 630 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 2: in the economy happens. 631 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: Gotcha, And then just real quickly on the technology side, 632 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: you kind of mentioned that part of your cap X 633 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: is your mark towards technology. Are you guys using off 634 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: the shelf systems or do you have like proprietary systems 635 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: that you're building internally. 636 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: It's a combination of both. A lot of our operating 637 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: systems were developed in house and have continuously been refined 638 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: over time. But you know, we also make use of 639 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: off the shelf products that where we don't want to 640 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 2: go out and try to recreate the wheel. If there's 641 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 2: something that on the is on the shelf and we 642 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 2: look at the value of it and we can integrate 643 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 2: it within our existing platform, then that's what we target doing. 644 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: So you know, it's always a focus on continuous improvement 645 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: for us and whether we can improve in our dock 646 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 2: or pickup delivery, our line haul operations. If we can 647 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 2: leverage technology in any better way to be more efficient, 648 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 2: then kind of gets back to the balancing revenue and 649 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 2: cost per shipment, and we want to keep that cost 650 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 2: per shipment as low as we possibly can, So you know, 651 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 2: we're looking for any way we can save a dollar 652 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 2: that we can if that's investing in new technologies that 653 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 2: allow us to be more efficient. The other angle for 654 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: the tech investment though, is improving customer service, and you know, 655 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: customers are demanding more and more freight visibility, connectivity with 656 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 2: us and that's something and that that we encourage, and 657 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 2: we have our sales team out talking with customers to 658 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 2: figure out ways that we can connect and maybe move 659 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 2: some of the old, old paper based bills of leading 660 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 2: and so forth, UH to to electronic forms of communication 661 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: between us. And you know, the tighter we can get 662 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 2: with our customers, the better we feel like. But it 663 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 2: also gives us access to data. UH, it improves data quality. 664 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that can be improved if 665 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 2: if we can connect our systems UH with our customer 666 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 2: base and UH and drive some of that improvement there right. 667 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 2: You know. 668 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: So the free transportation logistics markets is sometimes overlooked by people, 669 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: uh when they're starting off in their career. So I 670 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: always like to ask folks that come on the podcast, 671 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: you know how you got into transportation, So you know, 672 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 1: did you search old Dominion? Now? Did they search you out? 673 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that far back. 674 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: I do remember that far back, and h you know 675 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 2: it was it was a thing where I was working 676 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 2: in public accounting and a recruiter reached out to me, 677 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 2: and once I started learning a little bit more about 678 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: the company and once I came in from my initial 679 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 2: interview and and uh and frankly, David Congdon back in 680 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 2: the day, I'll never forget, uh walked through the investor 681 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 2: deck and presentation and this was a job I had 682 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 2: to have and would have took it at about any cost. 683 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 2: And I think took a pay cut to come here. 684 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 2: But but it was something where you could see, uh, 685 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,760 Speaker 2: so much excitement for a local company, a public company 686 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 2: that I felt like had a ton of growth ahead 687 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 2: of it. And uh, and hey, we've executed on that 688 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 2: growth plan that that was laid out back in the 689 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 2: early two thousands, and so you know, it's been something 690 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 2: that's been tremendous to be a part of. And uh, 691 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 2: we looked forward to many more years of success by 692 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 2: just continuing to execute a simple formula of giving superior service, 693 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 2: charging affair but equitable price. That supports the continued investment 694 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 2: back and our company. And it really supports the most 695 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: valuable piece to to our investment plan and our secret sauce, 696 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 2: and that's our people. Our people or what ties this 697 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 2: all together. They're really the ones that are out and 698 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 2: about meeting with our customers every day delivering the service. 699 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 2: And that's something that that can't be matched the company 700 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: culture that that we have within this company cannot be 701 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 2: replicated by anyone else, we don't think. And uh, and 702 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 2: that's why we're so confident in what our continued opportunities 703 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 2: for for strong profitable growth will be as we move forward. 704 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: Right And you know, for people that might be interested 705 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: in learning more about transportation, I don't know, have you 706 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: ever come across a book, whether it's fiction or non fiction, 707 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: that like shines an interesting light on the industry. 708 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 2: I don't know about our industry. I know one that 709 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 2: that you know I've read, and I know our CEO 710 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 2: has and he was the one that turned me on 711 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: to it years ago. But was the Purple Cow. And 712 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 2: and that's something that that I think can can relate 713 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,839 Speaker 2: to the old dominion and what we've tried to do 714 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 2: within our industry. 715 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: I'll have to check that one out. And uh, you know, 716 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: for my final question, when you're not cfo ing, what 717 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: do you do for fun outside of an old dominion? 718 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 2: Uh? Always cfo ing? You never you never get to 719 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 2: turn that off. But uh, now I think that you know, 720 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 2: we've we've got a good group of people here at 721 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 2: od that that like to play golf together on the 722 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 2: weekends and uh and travel and uh together and so 723 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 2: forth and do things. So it's always talking about freight 724 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 2: and no D and what we can continue to do 725 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 2: to get better. But uh, we're probably playing golf and 726 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 2: you know, need to do a little bit more exercising maybe, 727 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 2: but but but those are things to just blow off 728 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 2: a little steam. I guess. 729 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: All right, Well, here's here's to lowering your handicap, well 730 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: a lot of It's always a pleasure to speak with you. 731 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: I really appreciate your time and thanks for coming onto 732 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:55,320 Speaker 1: the podcast. 733 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having us Lee, and thanks for tuning in. 734 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: If you like the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. 735 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast. 736 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: Check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, 737 00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight transportation markets. Also, if 738 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 1: you have an idea for a future episode, please hit 739 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: me up on the terminal or on Twitter at logistics Lee. 740 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, and be safe out there.