Speaker 1: Oh oh no, there's that monster coming to kill me
Speaker 1: with his fentinel knife. Ah, it got me, what a bummer. Welcome,
Speaker 1: Welcome to Spooky Week when we're talking about all of
Speaker 1: the scariest things. A podcast with foreshadowing that is foreshadowing.
Speaker 1: That's right, twent Deputy Garrison Davis. But I'm fentinel by
Speaker 1: being near it on theastume seventeen knock as Yep, it
Speaker 1: was very scary. Thank you, very very very spooky. Yeah. Ah,
Speaker 1: it's good. It's good too. It's good to be it's
Speaker 1: good to be back with Spooky Week. All right, So
Speaker 1: this episode, I believe Chris has something very special prepared
Speaker 1: for us. Yes, so this just today we we are
Speaker 1: talking about one of the the most immediately recognizable and
Speaker 1: enduring embols of Halloween and one of the things that
Speaker 1: I've had to spend the most time cropping out of
Speaker 1: party invitations when I was sending them to kids. Oh no,
Speaker 1: we're talking talking other other iconic Yeah, well this is
Speaker 1: the one, like like specifically, I just spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time cropping this out of I fucking like party
Speaker 1: invitations people, because if like you're you're in, you're in
Speaker 1: your like fucking shitty Christian suburb. And if you send
Speaker 1: a kid home with an invitation that has a that
Speaker 1: has a black cat on it, uh, their parents will
Speaker 1: pull them out of public school because of the like
Speaker 1: the rising threat of Satanism. Better to stick to the
Speaker 1: tried and true, you know, like put the Uni bomber
Speaker 1: on it or something. Yeah, you got you gotta lots
Speaker 1: of nice stars. Put some crosses on it instead, but
Speaker 1: like a cornucopia. Make sure it's like called like a
Speaker 1: harvest festival or some bullshit. Yeah, oh yeah, harvest festival. Yeah,
Speaker 1: come to my fucking pentagram potty or your party sack.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're talking about the black cat um And ironically,
Speaker 1: the black cats association with witchcraft is actually this is
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church's fault, as are many things. Only bad
Speaker 1: thing they've ever done. They even created Protestantism. It's a
Speaker 1: it's a real issue, so true. So okay, So Pope
Speaker 1: Pope Gregory the ninth May Cats eternally feast on his soul.
Speaker 1: It took took office of the Pope in twelve and
Speaker 1: six years later and in It's in in twelve thirty three,
Speaker 1: he issues his first papal bull. This is This bull
Speaker 1: is called vox in Rama and Fox and Rama is
Speaker 1: essentially like it's a giant anti witchcraft bull that is
Speaker 1: designed to like what do you mean by bull like people? People?
Speaker 1: Bulls are these like orders basically that are like declared
Speaker 1: by the Pope and they turn into sort of like
Speaker 1: they have this sort of legal status that they're there
Speaker 1: they determined what sort of church doctor in church positions,
Speaker 1: because it's it's basically like it's like it's like it's
Speaker 1: like an executive order for the pope. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: and they could just do this and so they do
Speaker 1: this a lot, and yeah, this this is the sort
Speaker 1: of anti witchcraft one because he's trying to rally support
Speaker 1: for like stamping out a bunch of heretics in Germany
Speaker 1: for the crime of like not believing in Catholic doctrine
Speaker 1: and giving all their money to the pope. So this
Speaker 1: bull like directly links cats to Satanic rituals. There's this
Speaker 1: whole thing about like half cat like half people. This
Speaker 1: is what we are back to iconic Transgirl, Halloween invertry,
Speaker 1: false circled. There are no new moral panics. This is
Speaker 1: a fucking furry panic and like twelve thirty three. It's
Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's cat girls kill God. Yeah. Unfortunately the
Speaker 1: product of this is that you know, like that this this, this,
Speaker 1: this space, here's it's off to the races, right, black
Speaker 1: hats have become associated with witchcraft and then sort of
Speaker 1: in general with bad luck, and you get this whole
Speaker 1: sort of like you know, crossing a black cat like
Speaker 1: bringing bad luck, and this is really sort of devastating
Speaker 1: real world effect on cats. Like m hmm yeah, like
Speaker 1: I mean like like throughout your like from this point on,
Speaker 1: like periodically they're just mass killings of cats in Europe
Speaker 1: because like these people are fucking barbarians and savages who
Speaker 1: like should never have been allowed to like leave their
Speaker 1: stone huts. Um. When I was getting a while ago,
Speaker 1: when I was getting some childhood cats, we were talking
Speaker 1: to the cat agency and we learned that they don't
Speaker 1: allow people to adopt to black cats during October because
Speaker 1: people either buy them as props and then like to
Speaker 1: get rid of them or just like abuse them. Um,
Speaker 1: it's it sucks. It's like an actual problem. And are
Speaker 1: we going to get to the Great cat massacre? No?
Speaker 1: What is the Great cat Massacre? It sounds like that
Speaker 1: sounds like a sequel to that, to that mouse Sherlock
Speaker 1: Holmes movie that Disney made, the extremely dark version. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The Great Cat Maskers a book by Robert Johnson. It's
Speaker 1: like a it's a very click. If you're doing a
Speaker 1: history graduate degree and you're reading like these sort of
Speaker 1: histories of everyday life or like histories of popular laughter,
Speaker 1: you will read The Great Cat Massacre and he details
Speaker 1: how like basically in France, I can't remember when, but
Speaker 1: these printers apprentices were like the apprentices lived with the
Speaker 1: printer right, and the prince's wife also had a bunch
Speaker 1: of cats, which he cared for much better than the apprentices.
Speaker 1: So they got mad and started doing cat murders. They
Speaker 1: put the cats on trial and convicted them of witchcraft.
Speaker 1: Wait wait, this was like judicial murder. Yes, yeah, they
Speaker 1: sent it to cats to death by I think they
Speaker 1: hung them or something. Oh my god, did the cats
Speaker 1: have like a defense attorney? Like what you're you're supposed
Speaker 1: to have an a kid at a witch cat trial,
Speaker 1: so one would hope, but unfortunately, my guest though, is
Speaker 1: if you're probably gonna get another cat, which is like
Speaker 1: not a great defense attorney no, they don't get a
Speaker 1: single fuck. I don't know they could. They could really
Speaker 1: funk up your face or something if they just you know,
Speaker 1: when close out. I don't know if the cats had
Speaker 1: a defense turned. It's an excellent question if someone's read
Speaker 1: it more recently than me. This is this is reminding
Speaker 1: me of that that great poster someone took about Vets
Speaker 1: Office that was like fighting cats. It's like, don't fight
Speaker 1: fair use drugs one. Yeah, yes, but you know, okay,
Speaker 1: my piece of advice to you is don't fight fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah during these drokes. Yeah, it's great, it's it's good.
Speaker 1: It's it's good general advice. And put him in your
Speaker 1: Halloween sweets. Yeah yeah, foreshadowing. Yeah. So, according to a
Speaker 1: study from the Journal Animals, black cats have the highest
Speaker 1: rate of Usian Houston, Asia and shelters and have lower
Speaker 1: rates of adoption, like have the lowest rate of adoption
Speaker 1: among all fur colors, which is like extremely fucked up.
Speaker 1: And it's also like the number of cats that we
Speaker 1: euthanize every year is just so bleak, it's very sad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So that funk the Catholic Church. This is their fault somehow, However,
Speaker 1: Comma for millions of people across space and time. The
Speaker 1: black cat has met something else entirely. This black cat,
Speaker 1: with its fur raised and back arched, is the bringer
Speaker 1: of the class war, the herald of the new world,
Speaker 1: and its name is sabotage. And okay, song about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and before before before we get into how the Sabo
Speaker 1: tabby or the Sabo kitty became associated with sabotage, we
Speaker 1: have to talk about what sabotage actually is. And the
Speaker 1: reason we have to do this is because sabotage like
Speaker 1: does not mean the same thing now as it did
Speaker 1: when the term was coined. So if you look at
Speaker 1: sort of the modern definition of sabotage, it's it's almost
Speaker 1: entirely focused about sort of the physical destruction of property,
Speaker 1: like here's here's maryam Webster's definition, for example, destruction of
Speaker 1: employers property such as tools or materials, or the hindering
Speaker 1: of manufacturing by discontented workers, to destruction or obstructive action
Speaker 1: carried on by a civilian or enemy agent to hinder
Speaker 1: in nation's war efforts. And okay, so part of part
Speaker 1: of the reason why sabbog why everyone thinks about sabotage
Speaker 1: is sort of like a physical act of destruction. Has
Speaker 1: to do with the sort of folk etymology of you
Speaker 1: know where the word sabotage came from, which is supposedly
Speaker 1: dates back to these like early French workers throwing these
Speaker 1: wooden shoes called sabots it's like machines to break them.
Speaker 1: And the problem is that this sort of just isn't true.
Speaker 1: Um Like, there there's no direct evidence that anyone sabotaged
Speaker 1: machines by throwing your shoes into them, which seems like
Speaker 1: kind of a kind of inefficient way to grab a stick, right,
Speaker 1: like you you need your shoes to walk on. And
Speaker 1: the everthing is that people who put cats on trial,
Speaker 1: they weren't always thinking in straight lines. That's true that well,
Speaker 1: at least this is the eighteen hundreds, so hopefully, hopefully
Speaker 1: we're slightly past the cat trials. But what's interesting about
Speaker 1: this is do you ever think about this, Okay, like sabotage,
Speaker 1: it's a French word, right that the French shoot the
Speaker 1: word for the shoe is sabot Like, it doesn't start
Speaker 1: up until like the late eighteen hundreds. It literally just
Speaker 1: means someone who like it means to make a wooden
Speaker 1: shoe okay, but it turns out it's actually it's actual
Speaker 1: Orisin is more interesting. This um. The term sabotage, as
Speaker 1: you know, like the sort of like worker action, was
Speaker 1: invented by the French anarchist of Meal Pigot. I don't
Speaker 1: it's po u g. I don't know how to pronounce.
Speaker 1: That doesn't matter, pochet I, I don't know. Sure, Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I lightly it's fine. I feel slightly bad because he's
Speaker 1: one of the few good frenchmen him and sent him
Speaker 1: and Fuco the only philology. So Pago is like he's
Speaker 1: a this guy is extremely French. Yeah, but he also
Speaker 1: he is he is in the he's in the period
Speaker 1: of French cool, which is to say he is um.
Speaker 1: He he he is an he's an anarchist, he is
Speaker 1: a cynicalist, he is all of the ship UM and
Speaker 1: he like he invents the term sabotage is part of
Speaker 1: this report to the c g T s I eight
Speaker 1: seventy nine conference in some cities name I can't remember.
Speaker 1: So the c GT is is a really weird unions.
Speaker 1: It means c g T means like the General Confederation
Speaker 1: of Labor of Workers. Basically, UM actually It's really funny
Speaker 1: because because because of how similar like French, Spanish and
Speaker 1: Portuguese are, there were like sixteen thousand unions across like
Speaker 1: twelve countries that are named the CGT. It's it's, it's
Speaker 1: it's they're all either the CGT or the u g
Speaker 1: C because they're all just like confeder something. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: the French CGT is like a very very weird union.
Speaker 1: They're they're they're like they're the only union I've ever
Speaker 1: seen that has at various points been an anarchist union,
Speaker 1: of communist union, a liberal union, and a democratic union.
Speaker 1: And it also like the thing they're famous for sort
Speaker 1: of now is the fact that they sat out like
Speaker 1: every revolution that's ever happened in France. Like they're they're
Speaker 1: they're probably most famous for like telling people to like
Speaker 1: basically signing a pact with the government and trying to
Speaker 1: get people like to go back to work when sixty
Speaker 1: eight was happening, and you know, and the usically about
Speaker 1: like the c g T. The CTC is still around today.
Speaker 1: They have like seven hundred thousand members or something like that,
Speaker 1: the second largest union in France, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. So they'll go on strike for like pension stuff,
Speaker 1: but they won't go on strike to like abolish the
Speaker 1: class system and sort of how I put it. But
Speaker 1: in the late age hundred, early in eighteen hundreds they
Speaker 1: are a very very radical cynicalast union. And Emil Pigou,
Speaker 1: who again like like anarchist par excellence, is like their
Speaker 1: vice secretary, so to go, like invents the investor. Sabotage
Speaker 1: is a way of translating basically the Scottish term that
Speaker 1: I okay, I apologize for my Scottish pronunciation. I don't
Speaker 1: I genuinely don't really have any problems with Scottish people.
Speaker 1: I think the term is go Connie basically, which means
Speaker 1: go slow. Um sures to go. From his pamphlet sabotage,
Speaker 1: that's um like his explanation of like what's going on
Speaker 1: here that the first part of it seem quoting British pamphlet.
Speaker 1: That's about what dogatti is. If you want to buy
Speaker 1: a hat worth two dollars, you must pay two dollars.
Speaker 1: If you want to spend only a dollar fifty, you
Speaker 1: must be satisfied with an inferior quality. A hat is
Speaker 1: a commodity if you want to buy a dozen of
Speaker 1: why is it a dozen of shirts? Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 1: People wrote weird in the early night entwids. If you
Speaker 1: want to buy half a dozen shirts at fifty cents each,
Speaker 1: you must pay three dollars. If you only spend two
Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents, you can only have five shirts. Now,
Speaker 1: the boss declares that labor and skill are nothing but
Speaker 1: commodities like hats and shirts. Very well, we answer, We'll
Speaker 1: take you at your word. If labor and skill are commodities,
Speaker 1: their owners have the right to sell them. Like the
Speaker 1: hat seller sells hats and the habitasher sells shirts, these
Speaker 1: merchants must give a certain value in exchange for an
Speaker 1: equivalent value. For a lower price, you will have an
Speaker 1: article of either lower quality or smaller quantity. Give the
Speaker 1: worker of fair, fair wage, and he will furnish you
Speaker 1: with his best labor at its highest skill. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, give the work an insufficient wage, and you
Speaker 1: forfeit the right to demand the best and most of
Speaker 1: his labor anymore of when you can demand a two
Speaker 1: dollar half for one dollar. The gokhani consists then and
Speaker 1: systematically applying the formula bad wages, bad labor. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but basically what this is like, it's it's Gokani is
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's a kind of strike where it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's kind of like a slowdown
Speaker 1: or there's another kind of striker's name I forgetting right
Speaker 1: now where it's like you you you you like exactly
Speaker 1: follow the rules, work to rule. Yeah, yeah, that's it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a work to rule stricker. It's
Speaker 1: basically like, okay, so you're not being paid enough, so
Speaker 1: you just intentionally work really shittily and just keep working
Speaker 1: slowly and badly until boss is paying you more. And
Speaker 1: so this has been a big thing in in Britain
Speaker 1: and Togo like sees this and he writes basically like
Speaker 1: a paper like recommending that the CGT starts using this
Speaker 1: as a tactic. But sure, he's trying to find a
Speaker 1: French word for it, and he's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to translate this, and so what he thinks of
Speaker 1: there's this sort of like well, okay, so here's where
Speaker 1: it gets messy because it's like there's like a couple
Speaker 1: of versions of the story. One version of it is
Speaker 1: like work as if you're being like hit with a
Speaker 1: wooden shoe. So I wake up every morning and turn
Speaker 1: on my podcasting Mike and a clog just flies in
Speaker 1: through my windows. That's why Sophie us to move, yeah together,
Speaker 1: there's there's these there's these slinger shots to set up
Speaker 1: outside of my windows that launched these clogs right at
Speaker 1: my face every more hilariously hilariously. We are going to
Speaker 1: come back to sling shots in So there's this thing
Speaker 1: in France, like so people people with wooden shoes basically
Speaker 1: generally are like peasants right there, people from burrel areas,
Speaker 1: And there's this whole sort of stereotype in France that
Speaker 1: like in this period and like the like there's like
Speaker 1: these people with their wooden shoes and they're like peasants
Speaker 1: and they're like ignorant and they're bad at working and
Speaker 1: like and so basically what Pago is the other thing
Speaker 1: that the other theory of what's happening. Here's he's doing.
Speaker 1: He's like reversing this thing, right, He's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: here's this, here's this like stereotype like workers working badly,
Speaker 1: and he's like, okay, no, what what if we did
Speaker 1: this on purpose, Like what if we were intentionally just lazy?
Speaker 1: And it's important to note that, like and Pago does this,
Speaker 1: and it's writing that like so she invents the word sabotage,
Speaker 1: but like he sure it's hell didn't invent the content
Speaker 1: of sabotage. Here here, here's from the pamphlet Sabotage again.
Speaker 1: Sabotage the former revolt is as old as human exploitation,
Speaker 1: since the day man had the criminal ability to profit
Speaker 1: by another man's labor, Since that very same day, the exploited,
Speaker 1: the exploited toiler has instinctively tried to give his master
Speaker 1: lesson what was demanded from him. In this way, the
Speaker 1: worker was unconsciously doing sabotage, demonstrating in an indirect way
Speaker 1: the irrepressible antagonism that raised capital and labor against one another. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm I have to I have to do a call
Speaker 1: out post on poor poor, get poor gy whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: that was very sexist, he said, every man. That's true.
Speaker 1: That's not. Women should also be forced to work, um
Speaker 1: non bid. The people should be forced to work, um
Speaker 1: eight hours a day, hopefully more so the fact that
Speaker 1: he's just making men work is a little sexist garrison
Speaker 1: doing a Hillary Clinton there, doing a Glen green Wall there.
Speaker 1: That's right enough to see it. Ah, weirdly, weirdly in
Speaker 1: terms of in terms of canceling a Frenchman for a
Speaker 1: French dude for sexism, like pretty mild. I gonna lie
Speaker 1: at least problematic frenchman, don't. He probably did do something horrible.
Speaker 1: I just didn't see it when I was reading about it.
Speaker 1: But you know, such as such as the the guy
Speaker 1: he invents sabotage. Um, so okay, so we have sabotage
Speaker 1: as like you know, and this is an interesting about this,
Speaker 1: right when when when Pigot was first like defining the
Speaker 1: word right, like he literally is just talking about like
Speaker 1: labor slowdowns, right, and you know, very quickly sabotage comes
Speaker 1: to mean other things, and he's yeah, so so here
Speaker 1: here's again from this same Pamply. He's quoting the secretary
Speaker 1: of a railway union who's like on strike for the
Speaker 1: right to unionize. And this this is what the railway
Speaker 1: union secretary guys says, with two cents worth of a
Speaker 1: certain ingredient younion utilized in a peculiar way, he declared
Speaker 1: it will be easy for the railwayman to put the
Speaker 1: locomotive and such conditions as to make it impossible to
Speaker 1: run them, which fucking absolutely absolutely based eighteen seventies French
Speaker 1: road Union secretary. Ah, it's great stuff. It's actually funny
Speaker 1: because like she's she's just like out there, just like
Speaker 1: saying this, and like every modern union has like a
Speaker 1: giant disclaimer in their things, saying like we do not
Speaker 1: endorse the destruction of machines. Like yeah, the fucking based
Speaker 1: French guys like no, no, no, no no, Like we
Speaker 1: we are actively threatening you to destroy like every locomotive
Speaker 1: in France if you do not let us form this union.
Speaker 1: This is why, this is why my organizing with the
Speaker 1: I Heart Union is solely based on us planning future
Speaker 1: terrorist attacks. If we don't get our way, the Hollywood
Speaker 1: sign will never never be the same again. I've already
Speaker 1: pulled sugar into the I guess time of my podcast recorded, correct,
Speaker 1: that's gonna work out for it. Unfortunately, the gas tank
Speaker 1: of the podcast is like my stomach, So we're kind
Speaker 1: of it's it's it's just as a fact of it
Speaker 1: is actually pouring sugar into things. Yeah, so I'm hiding
Speaker 1: under your bed with a funnel right now. Some sugar.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, Garrison, do you know what else
Speaker 1: will put locomotives in such a condition that will make
Speaker 1: it impossible for them to run? Uh? The is this
Speaker 1: an ad break? This dynamite the products and services that
Speaker 1: support this podcast? There, Yeah, the fucking the rail companies
Speaker 1: are making the trains not be able to work. The
Speaker 1: trains are too long. They are too long. Okay, dynamite.
Speaker 1: The answer is dynamite, and we're back. Okay. So from
Speaker 1: from here, the definition of sabotage starts to sort of
Speaker 1: expand um very rapidly. Here the I w w in
Speaker 1: n about what sabotage is. I'm so curious sabotages is.
Speaker 1: Sabotage is a destruction of profits to gain a definite
Speaker 1: revolutionary economic end. It has many forms. It may mean
Speaker 1: damaging the raw materials is that destined for a scab
Speaker 1: factory or a shop. It may mean spoiling. It may
Speaker 1: mean the spoiling of a finished product. It may mean
Speaker 1: the displacement of parts of machinery or the disarrangement of
Speaker 1: a whole machine, where that machine is the one upon
Speaker 1: which other machines are dependent. From material. It may mean
Speaker 1: working slow, it may mean poor work. It may mean
Speaker 1: missending packages, giving overweight to consumers, pointing out defects and goods,
Speaker 1: using the best material where the employer desires of alteration,
Speaker 1: and also the telling of trade secrets. In fact, it
Speaker 1: has as many variations as there are lines of work.
Speaker 1: This is this is so fascinating because sabotage definitely now
Speaker 1: is way more associated with like earth for like the
Speaker 1: left tactics, and this is like very labor focus. Like
Speaker 1: sabotage is done by the people who are working at
Speaker 1: the factory or place of production on the products that
Speaker 1: they're working on. It's it's that that is extremely fascinating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think there's another thing too, right, because like
Speaker 1: there is the sort of physical aspect of it. But again,
Speaker 1: like this was created as like like as a term
Speaker 1: of sort of like like anarchy, like specifically like syndical
Speaker 1: political struggle, right, Yeah, and as that term like it's
Speaker 1: a lot of what they're talking about when people think
Speaker 1: about sabotage is just like strikes and like labor slowdowns,
Speaker 1: and that that part of the connotation of sabotage has
Speaker 1: just like completely faded and get into sort of like
Speaker 1: how that happens. It's and it's so based on addressing
Speaker 1: actual material changes as opposed to like a lot of sabotage.
Speaker 1: Now is almost like performative like even like even like
Speaker 1: the left type stuff. It does. It does get a
Speaker 1: thing done, like yes, this thing did burn down, but
Speaker 1: they're gonna build another one. It's it's all. It's obviously
Speaker 1: it's four kind of like spectacles built into what the
Speaker 1: actual goal is. And for this kind of stuff, it's
Speaker 1: actually it's about like it's more like improving labor conditions.
Speaker 1: It's based only and like there's a lot of this
Speaker 1: that is this that is specifically designed not to be
Speaker 1: like very noticeable, Like I mean there's there's a very
Speaker 1: common thing. You get strikes like in the US even
Speaker 1: even like sort of like conservative truck restrikes will do
Speaker 1: this thing where like okay, so the truckers will go
Speaker 1: on strike and then they'll hang like basically like hang
Speaker 1: like fragments of metal and shipped from like the top
Speaker 1: of overpasses so that if you drive another truck under
Speaker 1: it or like funk up the top of the truck.
Speaker 1: And that's like that's kind of stuff. Isn't like it's
Speaker 1: not designed specifically, not designed to be public, right, It's
Speaker 1: designed to be something that like, okay, like it's it's, it's, it's,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's about like directly materially hurting the bosses. Yeah,
Speaker 1: over like a long period of time, not just like
Speaker 1: ones like single action you do it and you run
Speaker 1: away and hope and hope never be caught. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's gonna work slowly for two years and it costs
Speaker 1: my boss like thousands of dollars in process. I mean
Speaker 1: there there's some there's something like okay, so I I
Speaker 1: guess about it here. So I've been I've been doing
Speaker 1: some episodes. Next week are going to be about Lula,
Speaker 1: who's like the sort of like great uh like originally
Speaker 1: labor leader and turns sort of like am I blanking
Speaker 1: on the name of a friend of the people of Haiti. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that. That's what he turned into.
Speaker 1: That's nothing else. Yeah, yeah, but he he's a former
Speaker 1: president Brazil, maybe be the next president of Brazil. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, he has this interesting sort of like she
Speaker 1: heals a much of labor organizing under the military ottatorship,
Speaker 1: and he has this really interesting lot because during the
Speaker 1: military Kadership and Brasil, there's a bunch of these sort
Speaker 1: of like like underground leftist paramilitary groups and like like
Speaker 1: his brother gets like arrested by the military and tortured horribly,
Speaker 1: and he has this really interesting line about that talking
Speaker 1: about these contestine groups, which is like, Okay, like I like,
Speaker 1: if you guys had like talked to like the two
Speaker 1: thousand people who work in this factory instead of doing
Speaker 1: this completely contestantly and not even telling your own family
Speaker 1: that you're a communist, Like maybe if you talk to
Speaker 1: people like they couldn't have grabbed you off the street
Speaker 1: and just like arrest like it's like disappeared you overnight
Speaker 1: because there would have been people there and and that
Speaker 1: and that's that's the thing, Like that all of this stuff,
Speaker 1: like this kind of sabotage relies on like you and
Speaker 1: like everyone else around you also doing the thing, and
Speaker 1: that makes it harder to crack down on because you
Speaker 1: just you, you know, you sort you have critical mass
Speaker 1: and yeah, and and and that's something I think is
Speaker 1: is very different from sort of modern sabotage, which is yeah,
Speaker 1: based on these sort of like either either like Okay,
Speaker 1: we're doing this and we're gonna get arrested or it's
Speaker 1: like here is like a secret cell in like the
Speaker 1: woods in Oregon, and no none other people, other people
Speaker 1: in this group will ever see each other again after
Speaker 1: they like spike this tree, I wonder if it has
Speaker 1: its roots and like, um, I don't know when these
Speaker 1: like some of people in front existed. But like in
Speaker 1: Britain we have the Luddites and around a similar time,
Speaker 1: who has sometimes seen as one of the original trade unions,
Speaker 1: right who would break break boilers in the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Britain still incidentally makes it a capital crime to destroy
Speaker 1: a boiler or like a break. Well, it's a way
Speaker 1: of break because what the like the ned Blood is
Speaker 1: just like fictional leader of the Luddites, right, like this
Speaker 1: giant general who's supposed to come and they were like,
Speaker 1: oh it was ned Blood, mate, I don't think about
Speaker 1: it what you're talking about, like they made it a
Speaker 1: capital trying to try but to try and break up
Speaker 1: specifically that right to what like Chris is talking about,
Speaker 1: like like it's obviously like personifying the forces of labor
Speaker 1: as as a giant general is not something that continued
Speaker 1: throughout space some time. But that solidarity where where like
Speaker 1: someone in the factory fucked up the boiler, everyone in
Speaker 1: the factory has something to gain from sucking up the boiler.
Speaker 1: So as long as we don't tell anyone, the boiler
Speaker 1: stays sucked up. Yeah, and interesting, like good actually like
Speaker 1: specifically writes about what he's writing about the stuff the
Speaker 1: stuff in the nineteen third like the late thirties, but
Speaker 1: like he specifically writes about like the thing that that
Speaker 1: that kind of labor struggle in Britain is like one
Speaker 1: of the thing is one of the sort of like forbearers, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: thing on them. Yeah. But so this stuff is sort
Speaker 1: of like yeah, a lot a lot of this stuff
Speaker 1: is people. Is people in the age like the eight
Speaker 1: nineties and like hunters like looking back on those groups.
Speaker 1: And Okay, so I want to sort of pivot a
Speaker 1: little bit, which is because so we've mentioned the IWW
Speaker 1: um and the i ww are the people who are
Speaker 1: basically like responsible for associating sabotage with the black cat
Speaker 1: and it's sort of unclear how this happens. Um, here's
Speaker 1: how the modern IWW talks about and SHEW thousand eleven
Speaker 1: it which is like the sort of like sabotage cat picture.
Speaker 1: It was probably conceived by IWW member Ralph Chaplin, most
Speaker 1: famous for penning the IWW labor anthem Solidarity Forever, who
Speaker 1: produced many of the IWW's early silent agitator graphics, which
Speaker 1: themselves had close association with hobo signs described elsewhere in
Speaker 1: this gallery. If I culture, we can cut that part.
Speaker 1: Although today the cat has a general association with the IWW,
Speaker 1: sometimes even as its mascot, its original purpose was as
Speaker 1: a code or symbol for direct action at the point
Speaker 1: of production, specifically sabotage. Indeed, the cat may have been
Speaker 1: may even have been chosen due to the convenient word
Speaker 1: place sabo tabby, possibly even a direct inspiration from mel
Speaker 1: Blanc's characterization of bugs bunny. Often bugs bunnies often mispronounced
Speaker 1: sabotage sabotage so really should be as like sabotage icon
Speaker 1: so I was described in the section on sabotage. It
Speaker 1: must be emphasize that the latter did not mean destruction
Speaker 1: of machinery or equipment, although I I really think that's
Speaker 1: partially like that. The modern IWW being like, hey, don't
Speaker 1: sue us, like this, And this is the thing with
Speaker 1: the old i WW is like you'll you'll get you'll
Speaker 1: get like statements from i w W leaders who are like,
Speaker 1: uh we I we We're not the guy. We don't
Speaker 1: like our our strikers aren't the people who break machines.
Speaker 1: There's another group of people who are like here also,
Speaker 1: but who are not us? Who are not us? Who
Speaker 1: are door do who are destroying things? I never do
Speaker 1: crimes great stuff, Only my identical twin Harrison does. Cry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing how many symbols of industrial labor come from
Speaker 1: the wobblies, Like the raised fist also comes from the IWW, right,
Speaker 1: Like it's incredible this global impact. Yeah, well, I mean
Speaker 1: like and I think there's a there's a reason for this,
Speaker 1: which is that like, okay, if if you're if you're
Speaker 1: a capitalist in the early nine Dred like this cat
Speaker 1: is the spookiest ship you've ever seen, like like it
Speaker 1: is terrifying, Like they are like groups of wobblies will like, right,
Speaker 1: you step off a boat and people and like the
Speaker 1: like sheriffs would just immediately start shooting them, like it
Speaker 1: is to this day. I think I think that WW
Speaker 1: is the only leftist group in the history of the
Speaker 1: u S outside of Puerto Rico that has ever taken
Speaker 1: in American city, which they did in the UH It
Speaker 1: was a very small town on the border, but they
Speaker 1: actually actually took American cities like during the Mexican Revolution
Speaker 1: um and that mountain maybe United mind. Well they didn't
Speaker 1: actually like that's the thing though, they didn't actually like
Speaker 1: fully like dri drive out like okay, yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 1: like they like the ww like actually fully like took
Speaker 1: over towns and was like whoere the fucking running this dout?
Speaker 1: But you know, but what this thing that starts happening
Speaker 1: here is you get like like people are really desperate,
Speaker 1: like that there's still there's a bunch of houses, Like
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of like old mansions from this period
Speaker 1: in like late aighte hundreds, early nine hundreds, like in
Speaker 1: Chicago that are are all built in online in one street.
Speaker 1: And the reason they were all built that way was
Speaker 1: because they wanted to be on on the roads, on
Speaker 1: the road to the nearest military base so that when
Speaker 1: the revolution come they came, they could run and hide.
Speaker 1: Like this is how scared peace people are, and the
Speaker 1: like bosses start offering workers things as a compromise that
Speaker 1: like most people today like think our socialism like they have,
Speaker 1: Like you start getting companies that have like into that
Speaker 1: have their own workers councils in them, like like here
Speaker 1: here is here is the workers council will give the
Speaker 1: workers council budgetrol over how the shot flaw works, like
Speaker 1: please don't overthrow us. Like Rockefeller like develops the idea
Speaker 1: of putting workers on corporate boards, like specifically as a
Speaker 1: way of trying to buy off workers and stopping them
Speaker 1: from like sabotaging their way to revolution and just like
Speaker 1: stealing all Rockefeller's property for the working class. And you know,
Speaker 1: we've been talking about about a lot about this and
Speaker 1: sort of like the American context and like sort of
Speaker 1: the French and English context, but you know, partially because
Speaker 1: the ademology, partially because of like who's involved with like
Speaker 1: the specific black cat think, but like syndicalism, which is
Speaker 1: the sort of like this ideology of using democratic unions
Speaker 1: doing a general strike to like seize control the means
Speaker 1: of production any in the class system. This is fucking everywhere.
Speaker 1: This is these these people spread like wildfire, like I think,
Speaker 1: I think probably the most famous cynicals other than the
Speaker 1: IWW are the CNT in Spain, but like you know,
Speaker 1: the the Italian in in in nineteen nineteen seventeen nineteen nineteen,
Speaker 1: like cyn Nicolas and Italy like very nearly pull off
Speaker 1: a revolution during the period that becomes known as the
Speaker 1: Benni a Rosso or like the two Red Years, they
Speaker 1: wind up being betrayed by the Italian Socialists and that's
Speaker 1: how we get Bussolini but shocked. Yeah, who who who
Speaker 1: could have guessed? But you know, there there are enormous
Speaker 1: cynicalist unions like everywhere that there's there's this huge cynicals
Speaker 1: unions in both Brazil and Argentina and sort of bizarrely,
Speaker 1: both Brazil and Argentina both have these sort of like
Speaker 1: general strike anarchist revolutions in both nineteen seventeen and nineteen nineteen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wild, Like the cynicals are everywhere. There's there's like
Speaker 1: their cynicalist like tin workers in Brazil. There in Venezuela,
Speaker 1: there's an AWW section. In South Africa there's like cynicalas
Speaker 1: and Egypt. They're in Japan like it from from this
Speaker 1: period from like the late eighteen hundreds through really even
Speaker 1: the earlier so the early nineteen twenties, Like these people
Speaker 1: are a pretty significant section of the entire international labor
Speaker 1: and socialist movements, and every word syndicalism goes this black
Speaker 1: cat goes with them. Now, unfortunately, as as the vateing
Speaker 1: Hunters were on that, this the influence of syndicalism begins
Speaker 1: to wane as a combination of both intense post World
Speaker 1: War One repression and you know, as as reaction sort
Speaker 1: of like red scary reactions to uh, the Russian Revolution,
Speaker 1: and also the sort of rise of like Lenin as
Speaker 1: communist parties who have their own doctrines that don't like
Speaker 1: rely on sabotage in the sort of theoretical sense that
Speaker 1: cyn nicolism does. And this this has like this, this, this,
Speaker 1: this has a bunch of sort of malign effects on
Speaker 1: what people think sabotage is. Unfortunately, but do you know
Speaker 1: what else degraded the use of sabotages of political and
Speaker 1: ideological weapon. It's it's it's the advertising industrial. Yeah it
Speaker 1: was not the boys and we are back. But wait,
Speaker 1: there's still more sabotage because unfortunately, you know, as as
Speaker 1: the sort of like the cyneclest movement is declining, and
Speaker 1: like every single one of these people is getting shot. Uh,
Speaker 1: there was waiting in the wings. Another type of sabotage
Speaker 1: that we've talked about a lot on this show. And yeah,
Speaker 1: this is ecological sabotage, which I'm okay. I also see
Speaker 1: people calling it eco taj and like, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: I love you, I love you all forest defenders. That
Speaker 1: is a dogshit word like eco tag, Like come on,
Speaker 1: like this is this is not this is not actually
Speaker 1: a good word. We could do better. Um. It's also
Speaker 1: called monkey wrenching after the the work of ecological activists
Speaker 1: in veterate racist Edward Abbey, that's right and sexist. Don't
Speaker 1: don't let him off the hook. Oh yeah yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: old white dude Edward Abbey. Yeah he's he's a very
Speaker 1: like this is a very like Pacific Northwest kind of
Speaker 1: guy who that's true. Yeah yeah, it's like a guy
Speaker 1: who's white really likes forest, does not like brown people.
Speaker 1: He loves the fucking desert like yeah, yeah, desert boomers
Speaker 1: loves some med with Abbey. They pay it. I was
Speaker 1: in Moab recently and like the amount of people selling
Speaker 1: like first editions of Edward Abbey books without like entire
Speaker 1: like first edition to like Earth first gathering posters and
Speaker 1: stuff like thousands someone who's on an off road safari.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Yeah, that's copy the most maybe a first edition. Actually,
Speaker 1: do you do you want to tell the crowd what
Speaker 1: this book is about? That gang? Yeah? Oh, it's a
Speaker 1: group of people who have some fun times as people
Speaker 1: who travel around. They play with some trains, um and
Speaker 1: some diggers. They play with diggers. Yes, yes, they were
Speaker 1: they were diggers. Yeah, I don't know. He was just
Speaker 1: having fun times. Also, this is something that I did
Speaker 1: not know for a while. But Edward Abbey also wrote
Speaker 1: one of the adaptations of Lolita to play on stage.
Speaker 1: Oh shout, I forgot about that. Yeah, I just un
Speaker 1: problematic guy doing fascinating stuff. He disubs trees. Yeah, well, okay,
Speaker 1: so he's the one genuinely unproblematic thing. He wrote this.
Speaker 1: You are another book called Eco Well, okay, so he's
Speaker 1: involved in the writing of this. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people have tributed to this, but
Speaker 1: he's involved in the writing of a book called Eco
Speaker 1: Defensive Field Guide to Monkey Wrenching, which is this like
Speaker 1: unbelievably intricate and detailed guy to doing everything from like
Speaker 1: tree spike power lines to breaking ranching equipment to sabotaging
Speaker 1: vehicles and aircraft, of freeing animals from traps, to defeating surveillance,
Speaker 1: the sinking ships to a section that is called only
Speaker 1: quote fun with sling shots. Even in Lucky Wrench Gang
Speaker 1: he goes into great detail about how to start a
Speaker 1: caterpillar like bulldozer, like like a lot of it was
Speaker 1: like how to do terrorism, but like in a novel,
Speaker 1: I like it's fantastic. Yeah, well, it's like that. There's
Speaker 1: a whole genre of like of post World War two
Speaker 1: French films that are this with prison breaks where it's
Speaker 1: like as a bunch of people hold people who have
Speaker 1: been in concentration camps and like had broken out of them,
Speaker 1: are making these movies that are like just really intricate. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: this is how you make a lock pick, like this
Speaker 1: is this is how you figure out guards like shift changes,
Speaker 1: like this is how you like take out these boards.
Speaker 1: It's great stuff and it's it's one of one of
Speaker 1: the better kinds of things and eco defense, Like it's
Speaker 1: not the most banned book I've ever seen in a
Speaker 1: world that goes to yeah, it's it's not okay. So,
Speaker 1: on the one hand, like the FBI is in a
Speaker 1: weird position because they can't like technically ban it, be
Speaker 1: because the US has this thing called the First Amendment
Speaker 1: that like hand sometimes winning court. Here's here's the the
Speaker 1: Ego Defense Handbook was not written by Edward Abbey. It
Speaker 1: was written by David Foreman. Okay, Uh, there was a
Speaker 1: foreword in the book written by Edward Abbey. Okay, that
Speaker 1: that's the pros he wasn't. I think I think he
Speaker 1: was involved with the publication with it. Like he's somewhat
Speaker 1: like David Foreman and Edward Abbey were friends. They were
Speaker 1: they were Abby Abby Abby. Abbey is less involved with
Speaker 1: this insofar as he like Foremen. Like the FBI tries
Speaker 1: to like entrap him for writing this book, like like
Speaker 1: all most of the people who like actually sections to this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like all these people like people start. The FBI tries
Speaker 1: to arrest him on other stuff because unfortunately this book
Speaker 1: doesn't violate traffic law, so they can't arrescue for it.
Speaker 1: And okay, I do buy it on ab Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's from the Anarchists Library for free. Yeah, don't buy it,
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Bezos your money. Yeah, so it turned on a
Speaker 1: VPN used tour and go to the Anarchists Library. It's
Speaker 1: it's in this category of books that are like like okay,
Speaker 1: when when would you have your norble band books list?
Speaker 1: They don't include. There just two kinds of books they include.
Speaker 1: One is they don't include book where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: they didn't technically ban the book, but they tried to
Speaker 1: arrest everyone who wrote it. And then two they don't
Speaker 1: include our Fredo Bonano's arm Joy, a book for which
Speaker 1: she was arrested, thrown in prison, and kept through well
Speaker 1: the Italian government, on orders from the Supreme Court, like
Speaker 1: took every copy they could find, lit it on fire
Speaker 1: and giant bonfires. The other thing with that you could
Speaker 1: have hand sam book even if they did not arrest
Speaker 1: the owners. I've talked with a lot of green anarchists
Speaker 1: from who who were active during the Green Scare, and
Speaker 1: they definitely arrested people just for having having like like
Speaker 1: if like if you had it, that was evidence that
Speaker 1: you were a terrorist, Like it was something that like
Speaker 1: you don't talk about, you don't put your fingerprints on
Speaker 1: it um because having this book could get you in trouble,
Speaker 1: like you don't like it's it's, it's it's there's there's
Speaker 1: multiple ways to ban a book, one of them being
Speaker 1: if you have it, they're gonna try to charge you
Speaker 1: with like terrorism enhancement, stuffy case pretext. So yeah, fun book, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so, and like I think yeah calling it like
Speaker 1: I think with so, I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: stuff that people were doing that I called monkey wrenching
Speaker 1: or sort of like ecological savage was just just called
Speaker 1: eco terrorism today because people have just well there's like
Speaker 1: a whole loop of this, right, because there's there's there's
Speaker 1: there's the fbig, the green, scary growing like, all of
Speaker 1: this is terrorism. We're going to use the fucking entire
Speaker 1: like giant like military appric actually built up to like
Speaker 1: go after a bunch of people setting free animals. But
Speaker 1: then but then like like at some point and this
Speaker 1: is this is I think thing. It's very interesting in
Speaker 1: the last sort of like five ten years, like people
Speaker 1: who weren't really involved with the original stuff decided that
Speaker 1: eco terrorism was cool, and now every one on Twitter
Speaker 1: just talks about eco terrorism all the time, which is
Speaker 1: like they talk about an interesting term, Well they don't
Speaker 1: this the thing those people don't do it, and it's
Speaker 1: like come on, like but on the other hand, there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people like we should maybe caveat
Speaker 1: for our British listeners that you absolutely can be prosecuted
Speaker 1: for having that book, and multiple people have been prosecuted
Speaker 1: in the last two years. And the Anarchist Cookbook. I
Speaker 1: mean you could still be oh yeah, it's like they
Speaker 1: can they can't possess. Yeah, even if you're an American
Speaker 1: you can still get They've still gotten people for having
Speaker 1: the book. Like it's it's it's that's that's that's the
Speaker 1: interesting thing about how the cenership works, right, is it
Speaker 1: like like you are allowed to be a capitalist and
Speaker 1: sell it, but you're not You're not allowed to buy
Speaker 1: it because a terrorist. Yeah, wonderful stuff. Yeah, in Britain,
Speaker 1: you can't even things like the Anarchist Cookbook, Like people
Speaker 1: have been prosecuted people and anyone should be prosecuted for
Speaker 1: the Anchist clickbook because because it's dogshit, anyone's pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do like a deep dive into
Speaker 1: the history of all the ship that's been blamed on
Speaker 1: that book, and yeah, all the people have. And it's
Speaker 1: funny too because it's not like the Army literally doesn't
Speaker 1: publish fucking Field manually, but you could just buy it
Speaker 1: a store that like has all the same ship Like yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, terrorism is when we do it and
Speaker 1: not when they do it. That's right. So I want
Speaker 1: to talk about so like this whole thing is is
Speaker 1: a product of like this, like you know, this is
Speaker 1: what sabotag turns into. Right, And there's you know, and
Speaker 1: so some of the people stuff that like is being
Speaker 1: done here isn't really that destructive. Like a lot of
Speaker 1: people like you know, like people people like sitting in trees. Right,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that sort of like civil
Speaker 1: disobedience that is like you know, including this stuff. But
Speaker 1: then there's also like but you know, but but like
Speaker 1: stuff like spiking trees is where you I think you
Speaker 1: and it's basically destroying construction equipment is where stuff you
Speaker 1: start you start to get this sort of like modern
Speaker 1: understanding of sabotaloge is like a thing that like an
Speaker 1: activist does to like a piece of machinery. But you know,
Speaker 1: like that there's a lot of things people do, like
Speaker 1: people sabotage like whaling ships. But then also I want
Speaker 1: to sort of close the episode with this is that
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of people in a lot of
Speaker 1: other places in the world who do, like who do
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff for ecological defense that doesn't get
Speaker 1: put under this framework, where for example, there are groups
Speaker 1: like the Nitrow Delta Avengers who are like, Okay, fuck it,
Speaker 1: if the if the Nigerian government is just going to
Speaker 1: execute ecological activists, We're gonna pick up guns, we're gonna
Speaker 1: blow up pipelight pipelines, and we're gonna start shooting. And
Speaker 1: you know there there's ground in between, like the sort
Speaker 1: of like we're gonna do sabotage and we're going to
Speaker 1: like do arms struggle like an Ecuador for example, one
Speaker 1: of the responses you see to sort of like a
Speaker 1: tax in indigenous land by capitalist developers in indigenous groups
Speaker 1: being just like funcket, we're doing an uprising and then
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people like spend three weeks fighting
Speaker 1: and fighting cops in the street until they stop. And
Speaker 1: you also see stuff that's like it's kind of like
Speaker 1: because so what one of the other specifically in France
Speaker 1: they do this all the fucking time. I like one
Speaker 1: one of the older sort of like workers like sabotage
Speaker 1: tactics is just like you kidnapped your manager and love
Speaker 1: like people do this like now in France, Like it's
Speaker 1: just like, okay, you're the manager. You can't leave until
Speaker 1: you greet it or demand like, but like when people
Speaker 1: will do this in ecological settings, will like a government
Speaker 1: sending a government minister to like negotiate something that would
Speaker 1: be there'll be like a my manager around and people
Speaker 1: will just be like, okay, like we're kidnapping you, like
Speaker 1: we'll let you go when you stop doing this, and
Speaker 1: that's good good stuff. Yeah, And I think and I
Speaker 1: think like and these tactics also sort of spread, like
Speaker 1: for example, in Chile, if you look at like if
Speaker 1: you look at their sort of like milit and ecological struggles,
Speaker 1: especially like indigenous the Puchaer resistance, like that is a
Speaker 1: place that like more than anywhere else have ever seen
Speaker 1: love setting construction equipment on fire, like they really they
Speaker 1: really like lighting bacos on fire. It's it's it's good stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: But you have having sort of said all of this,
Speaker 1: like the fact that sabotage is synonymous was sort of
Speaker 1: like property destruction is I, like, I genuinely think like
Speaker 1: a triumph of of corporate propaganda because the original meeting
Speaker 1: of it, right, and the original politics behind it, which
Speaker 1: which is this like very explicit class politics of like
Speaker 1: fuck it, Like if we are not going to get
Speaker 1: the actual like products of our own labor, we are
Speaker 1: either not going to work we are going to take
Speaker 1: it from you, or were you going to make sure
Speaker 1: that you also don't get the products of our labor?
Speaker 1: Like that's so's just sort of gone and that's that's
Speaker 1: that's very sad to be because it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: good politics and we need more of it. And yeah,
Speaker 1: all of this sort of is to say that workers
Speaker 1: have no reason to fear the black cat, but boss's
Speaker 1: owners and capitalists live in fear. Your time will come,
Speaker 1: happy Halloween Happy? How is the cut fences? Somehow I
Speaker 1: didn't somehow I never mentioned bolt cutters in here, which
Speaker 1: is sort of wild. Oh yeah, actually so some some
Speaker 1: something I learned on a job once is that like, okay, so,
Speaker 1: so like bart razor wire is really scary stuff like
Speaker 1: it has like it has like anti clouding agents in
Speaker 1: it that like I've like on the wire, but I've
Speaker 1: gotten pasted a lot of raising wi. Yeah, well but
Speaker 1: I mean the thing the thing about this, right is
Speaker 1: it like you could just cut, Like it's actually really
Speaker 1: easy to just cut, like the chains on the chain link.
Speaker 1: So many people, many people have very strong like you
Speaker 1: can just sort of do this and like this and
Speaker 1: this is this is useful for a lot of things,
Speaker 1: like for example, you have to break down sections, offences
Speaker 1: and fences in your lawn. Like, yeah you can. You
Speaker 1: can do lots of fun things with boat cutters. Keep
Speaker 1: the kids, oh tin snaps, keep the kids off your lawn. Yeah,
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