1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh oh no, there's that monster coming to kill me 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: with his fentinel knife. Ah, it got me, what a bummer. Welcome, 3 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: Welcome to Spooky Week when we're talking about all of 4 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: the scariest things. A podcast with foreshadowing that is foreshadowing. 5 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 1: That's right, twent Deputy Garrison Davis. But I'm fentinel by 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: being near it on theastume seventeen knock as Yep, it 7 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: was very scary. Thank you, very very very spooky. Yeah. Ah, 8 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: it's good. It's good too. It's good to be it's 9 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: good to be back with Spooky Week. All right, So 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: this episode, I believe Chris has something very special prepared 11 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: for us. Yes, so this just today we we are 12 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: talking about one of the the most immediately recognizable and 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: enduring embols of Halloween and one of the things that 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: I've had to spend the most time cropping out of 15 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: party invitations when I was sending them to kids. Oh no, 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: we're talking talking other other iconic Yeah, well this is 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: the one, like like specifically, I just spent a lot 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: of time cropping this out of I fucking like party 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: invitations people, because if like you're you're in, you're in 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: your like fucking shitty Christian suburb. And if you send 21 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: a kid home with an invitation that has a that 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: has a black cat on it, uh, their parents will 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: pull them out of public school because of the like 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: the rising threat of Satanism. Better to stick to the 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: tried and true, you know, like put the Uni bomber 26 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: on it or something. Yeah, you got you gotta lots 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: of nice stars. Put some crosses on it instead, but 28 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: like a cornucopia. Make sure it's like called like a 29 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: harvest festival or some bullshit. Yeah, oh yeah, harvest festival. Yeah, 30 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: come to my fucking pentagram potty or your party sack. 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're talking about the black cat um And ironically, 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: the black cats association with witchcraft is actually this is 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church's fault, as are many things. Only bad 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: thing they've ever done. They even created Protestantism. It's a 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: it's a real issue, so true. So okay, So Pope 36 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: Pope Gregory the ninth May Cats eternally feast on his soul. 37 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: It took took office of the Pope in twelve and 38 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: six years later and in It's in in twelve thirty three, 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 1: he issues his first papal bull. This is This bull 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: is called vox in Rama and Fox and Rama is 41 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: essentially like it's a giant anti witchcraft bull that is 42 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: designed to like what do you mean by bull like people? People? 43 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: Bulls are these like orders basically that are like declared 44 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: by the Pope and they turn into sort of like 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: they have this sort of legal status that they're there 46 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: they determined what sort of church doctor in church positions, 47 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: because it's it's basically like it's like it's like it's 48 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: like an executive order for the pope. Okay, all right, 49 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: and they could just do this and so they do 50 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: this a lot, and yeah, this this is the sort 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: of anti witchcraft one because he's trying to rally support 52 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: for like stamping out a bunch of heretics in Germany 53 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: for the crime of like not believing in Catholic doctrine 54 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: and giving all their money to the pope. So this 55 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: bull like directly links cats to Satanic rituals. There's this 56 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: whole thing about like half cat like half people. This 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: is what we are back to iconic Transgirl, Halloween invertry, 58 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: false circled. There are no new moral panics. This is 59 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: a fucking furry panic and like twelve thirty three. It's 60 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: it's amazing, it's cat girls kill God. Yeah. Unfortunately the 61 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: product of this is that you know, like that this this, this, 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: this space, here's it's off to the races, right, black 63 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: hats have become associated with witchcraft and then sort of 64 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: in general with bad luck, and you get this whole 65 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: sort of like you know, crossing a black cat like 66 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: bringing bad luck, and this is really sort of devastating 67 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: real world effect on cats. Like m hmm yeah, like 68 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: I mean like like throughout your like from this point on, 69 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: like periodically they're just mass killings of cats in Europe 70 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: because like these people are fucking barbarians and savages who 71 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: like should never have been allowed to like leave their 72 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: stone huts. Um. When I was getting a while ago, 73 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: when I was getting some childhood cats, we were talking 74 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: to the cat agency and we learned that they don't 75 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: allow people to adopt to black cats during October because 76 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: people either buy them as props and then like to 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: get rid of them or just like abuse them. Um, 78 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: it's it sucks. It's like an actual problem. And are 79 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: we going to get to the Great cat massacre? No? 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: What is the Great cat Massacre? It sounds like that 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: sounds like a sequel to that, to that mouse Sherlock 82 00:04:54,520 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: Holmes movie that Disney made, the extremely dark version. Yeah. 83 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: The Great Cat Maskers a book by Robert Johnson. It's 84 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: like a it's a very click. If you're doing a 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: history graduate degree and you're reading like these sort of 86 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: histories of everyday life or like histories of popular laughter, 87 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: you will read The Great Cat Massacre and he details 88 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: how like basically in France, I can't remember when, but 89 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: these printers apprentices were like the apprentices lived with the 90 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: printer right, and the prince's wife also had a bunch 91 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: of cats, which he cared for much better than the apprentices. 92 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: So they got mad and started doing cat murders. They 93 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: put the cats on trial and convicted them of witchcraft. 94 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: Wait wait, this was like judicial murder. Yes, yeah, they 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: sent it to cats to death by I think they 96 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: hung them or something. Oh my god, did the cats 97 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: have like a defense attorney? Like what you're you're supposed 98 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: to have an a kid at a witch cat trial, 99 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: so one would hope, but unfortunately, my guest though, is 100 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: if you're probably gonna get another cat, which is like 101 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: not a great defense attorney no, they don't get a 102 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: single fuck. I don't know they could. They could really 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: funk up your face or something if they just you know, 104 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: when close out. I don't know if the cats had 105 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: a defense turned. It's an excellent question if someone's read 106 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: it more recently than me. This is this is reminding 107 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: me of that that great poster someone took about Vets 108 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: Office that was like fighting cats. It's like, don't fight 109 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: fair use drugs one. Yeah, yes, but you know, okay, 110 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: my piece of advice to you is don't fight fair. 111 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah during these drokes. Yeah, it's great, it's it's good. 112 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: It's it's good general advice. And put him in your 113 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: Halloween sweets. Yeah yeah, foreshadowing. Yeah. So, according to a 114 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: study from the Journal Animals, black cats have the highest 115 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: rate of Usian Houston, Asia and shelters and have lower 116 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: rates of adoption, like have the lowest rate of adoption 117 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: among all fur colors, which is like extremely fucked up. 118 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: And it's also like the number of cats that we 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: euthanize every year is just so bleak, it's very sad. Yeah. 120 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: So that funk the Catholic Church. This is their fault somehow, However, 121 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: Comma for millions of people across space and time. The 122 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: black cat has met something else entirely. This black cat, 123 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: with its fur raised and back arched, is the bringer 124 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: of the class war, the herald of the new world, 125 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: and its name is sabotage. And okay, song about it. Yeah, 126 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: and before before before we get into how the Sabo 127 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: tabby or the Sabo kitty became associated with sabotage, we 128 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: have to talk about what sabotage actually is. And the 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: reason we have to do this is because sabotage like 130 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: does not mean the same thing now as it did 131 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: when the term was coined. So if you look at 132 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: sort of the modern definition of sabotage, it's it's almost 133 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: entirely focused about sort of the physical destruction of property, 134 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: like here's here's maryam Webster's definition, for example, destruction of 135 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: employers property such as tools or materials, or the hindering 136 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: of manufacturing by discontented workers, to destruction or obstructive action 137 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: carried on by a civilian or enemy agent to hinder 138 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: in nation's war efforts. And okay, so part of part 139 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: of the reason why sabbog why everyone thinks about sabotage 140 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: is sort of like a physical act of destruction. Has 141 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: to do with the sort of folk etymology of you 142 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: know where the word sabotage came from, which is supposedly 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: dates back to these like early French workers throwing these 144 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: wooden shoes called sabots it's like machines to break them. 145 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: And the problem is that this sort of just isn't true. 146 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: Um Like, there there's no direct evidence that anyone sabotaged 147 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: machines by throwing your shoes into them, which seems like 148 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: kind of a kind of inefficient way to grab a stick, right, 149 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: like you you need your shoes to walk on. And 150 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: the everthing is that people who put cats on trial, 151 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: they weren't always thinking in straight lines. That's true that well, 152 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: at least this is the eighteen hundreds, so hopefully, hopefully 153 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: we're slightly past the cat trials. But what's interesting about 154 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: this is do you ever think about this, Okay, like sabotage, 155 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: it's a French word, right that the French shoot the 156 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: word for the shoe is sabot Like, it doesn't start 157 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: up until like the late eighteen hundreds. It literally just 158 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: means someone who like it means to make a wooden 159 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: shoe okay, but it turns out it's actually it's actual 160 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: Orisin is more interesting. This um. The term sabotage, as 161 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, like the sort of like worker action, was 162 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: invented by the French anarchist of Meal Pigot. I don't 163 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: it's po u g. I don't know how to pronounce. 164 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: That doesn't matter, pochet I, I don't know. Sure, Okay, okay, 165 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: I lightly it's fine. I feel slightly bad because he's 166 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: one of the few good frenchmen him and sent him 167 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: and Fuco the only philology. So Pago is like he's 168 00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: a this guy is extremely French. Yeah, but he also 169 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: he is he is in the he's in the period 170 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: of French cool, which is to say he is um. 171 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: He he he is an he's an anarchist, he is 172 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: a cynicalist, he is all of the ship UM and 173 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: he like he invents the term sabotage is part of 174 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: this report to the c g T s I eight 175 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: seventy nine conference in some cities name I can't remember. 176 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 1: So the c GT is is a really weird unions. 177 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: It means c g T means like the General Confederation 178 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: of Labor of Workers. Basically, UM actually It's really funny 179 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: because because because of how similar like French, Spanish and 180 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: Portuguese are, there were like sixteen thousand unions across like 181 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 1: twelve countries that are named the CGT. It's it's, it's 182 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: it's they're all either the CGT or the u g 183 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: C because they're all just like confeder something. Yeah, So 184 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: the French CGT is like a very very weird union. 185 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: They're they're they're like they're the only union I've ever 186 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: seen that has at various points been an anarchist union, 187 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: of communist union, a liberal union, and a democratic union. 188 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: And it also like the thing they're famous for sort 189 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: of now is the fact that they sat out like 190 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: every revolution that's ever happened in France. Like they're they're 191 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: they're probably most famous for like telling people to like 192 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: basically signing a pact with the government and trying to 193 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: get people like to go back to work when sixty 194 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: eight was happening, and you know, and the usically about 195 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: like the c g T. The CTC is still around today. 196 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: They have like seven hundred thousand members or something like that, 197 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: the second largest union in France, and I don't know, 198 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 1: it's interesting. So they'll go on strike for like pension stuff, 199 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: but they won't go on strike to like abolish the 200 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: class system and sort of how I put it. But 201 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: in the late age hundred, early in eighteen hundreds they 202 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: are a very very radical cynicalast union. And Emil Pigou, 203 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: who again like like anarchist par excellence, is like their 204 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: vice secretary, so to go, like invents the investor. Sabotage 205 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: is a way of translating basically the Scottish term that 206 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: I okay, I apologize for my Scottish pronunciation. I don't 207 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: I genuinely don't really have any problems with Scottish people. 208 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: I think the term is go Connie basically, which means 209 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: go slow. Um sures to go. From his pamphlet sabotage, 210 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: that's um like his explanation of like what's going on 211 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: here that the first part of it seem quoting British pamphlet. 212 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: That's about what dogatti is. If you want to buy 213 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: a hat worth two dollars, you must pay two dollars. 214 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: If you want to spend only a dollar fifty, you 215 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: must be satisfied with an inferior quality. A hat is 216 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: a commodity if you want to buy a dozen of 217 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: why is it a dozen of shirts? Okay, I don't know. 218 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: People wrote weird in the early night entwids. If you 219 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: want to buy half a dozen shirts at fifty cents each, 220 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: you must pay three dollars. If you only spend two 221 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: dollars and fifty cents, you can only have five shirts. Now, 222 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: the boss declares that labor and skill are nothing but 223 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: commodities like hats and shirts. Very well, we answer, We'll 224 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: take you at your word. If labor and skill are commodities, 225 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: their owners have the right to sell them. Like the 226 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: hat seller sells hats and the habitasher sells shirts, these 227 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: merchants must give a certain value in exchange for an 228 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: equivalent value. For a lower price, you will have an 229 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 1: article of either lower quality or smaller quantity. Give the 230 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: worker of fair, fair wage, and he will furnish you 231 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: with his best labor at its highest skill. On the 232 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: other hand, give the work an insufficient wage, and you 233 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: forfeit the right to demand the best and most of 234 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: his labor anymore of when you can demand a two 235 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: dollar half for one dollar. The gokhani consists then and 236 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: systematically applying the formula bad wages, bad labor. So yeah, 237 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: but basically what this is like, it's it's Gokani is 238 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: like it's it's it's a kind of strike where it's 239 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's kind of like a slowdown 240 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: or there's another kind of striker's name I forgetting right 241 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: now where it's like you you you you like exactly 242 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: follow the rules, work to rule. Yeah, yeah, that's it's 243 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a work to rule stricker. It's 244 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: basically like, okay, so you're not being paid enough, so 245 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: you just intentionally work really shittily and just keep working 246 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: slowly and badly until boss is paying you more. And 247 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: so this has been a big thing in in Britain 248 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: and Togo like sees this and he writes basically like 249 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: a paper like recommending that the CGT starts using this 250 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: as a tactic. But sure, he's trying to find a 251 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: French word for it, and he's like, I don't know 252 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: how to translate this, and so what he thinks of 253 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: there's this sort of like well, okay, so here's where 254 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: it gets messy because it's like there's like a couple 255 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: of versions of the story. One version of it is 256 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: like work as if you're being like hit with a 257 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: wooden shoe. So I wake up every morning and turn 258 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: on my podcasting Mike and a clog just flies in 259 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: through my windows. That's why Sophie us to move, yeah together, 260 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: there's there's these there's these slinger shots to set up 261 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: outside of my windows that launched these clogs right at 262 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: my face every more hilariously hilariously. We are going to 263 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: come back to sling shots in So there's this thing 264 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: in France, like so people people with wooden shoes basically 265 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: generally are like peasants right there, people from burrel areas, 266 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: And there's this whole sort of stereotype in France that 267 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: like in this period and like the like there's like 268 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: these people with their wooden shoes and they're like peasants 269 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: and they're like ignorant and they're bad at working and 270 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: like and so basically what Pago is the other thing 271 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: that the other theory of what's happening. Here's he's doing. 272 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: He's like reversing this thing, right, He's like, well, okay, 273 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: here's this, here's this like stereotype like workers working badly, 274 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: and he's like, okay, no, what what if we did 275 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: this on purpose, Like what if we were intentionally just lazy? 276 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: And it's important to note that, like and Pago does this, 277 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: and it's writing that like so she invents the word sabotage, 278 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: but like he sure it's hell didn't invent the content 279 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: of sabotage. Here here, here's from the pamphlet Sabotage again. 280 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: Sabotage the former revolt is as old as human exploitation, 281 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: since the day man had the criminal ability to profit 282 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: by another man's labor, Since that very same day, the exploited, 283 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: the exploited toiler has instinctively tried to give his master 284 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: lesson what was demanded from him. In this way, the 285 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: worker was unconsciously doing sabotage, demonstrating in an indirect way 286 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: the irrepressible antagonism that raised capital and labor against one another. Okay, 287 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm I have to I have to do a call 288 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: out post on poor poor, get poor gy whatever. Um, 289 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: that was very sexist, he said, every man. That's true. 290 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: That's not. Women should also be forced to work, um 291 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: non bid. The people should be forced to work, um 292 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: eight hours a day, hopefully more so the fact that 293 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: he's just making men work is a little sexist garrison 294 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: doing a Hillary Clinton there, doing a Glen green Wall there. 295 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: That's right enough to see it. Ah, weirdly, weirdly in 296 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: terms of in terms of canceling a Frenchman for a 297 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: French dude for sexism, like pretty mild. I gonna lie 298 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: at least problematic frenchman, don't. He probably did do something horrible. 299 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: I just didn't see it when I was reading about it. 300 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: But you know, such as such as the the guy 301 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 1: he invents sabotage. Um, so okay, so we have sabotage 302 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: as like you know, and this is an interesting about this, 303 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: right when when when Pigot was first like defining the 304 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,239 Speaker 1: word right, like he literally is just talking about like 305 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: labor slowdowns, right, and you know, very quickly sabotage comes 306 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: to mean other things, and he's yeah, so so here 307 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: here's again from this same Pamply. He's quoting the secretary 308 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: of a railway union who's like on strike for the 309 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: right to unionize. And this this is what the railway 310 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: union secretary guys says, with two cents worth of a 311 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: certain ingredient younion utilized in a peculiar way, he declared 312 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: it will be easy for the railwayman to put the 313 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: locomotive and such conditions as to make it impossible to 314 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: run them, which fucking absolutely absolutely based eighteen seventies French 315 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: road Union secretary. Ah, it's great stuff. It's actually funny 316 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: because like she's she's just like out there, just like 317 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: saying this, and like every modern union has like a 318 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: giant disclaimer in their things, saying like we do not 319 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: endorse the destruction of machines. Like yeah, the fucking based 320 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: French guys like no, no, no, no no, Like we 321 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: we are actively threatening you to destroy like every locomotive 322 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: in France if you do not let us form this union. 323 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: This is why, this is why my organizing with the 324 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: I Heart Union is solely based on us planning future 325 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: terrorist attacks. If we don't get our way, the Hollywood 326 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: sign will never never be the same again. I've already 327 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: pulled sugar into the I guess time of my podcast recorded, correct, 328 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: that's gonna work out for it. Unfortunately, the gas tank 329 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: of the podcast is like my stomach, So we're kind 330 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: of it's it's it's just as a fact of it 331 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: is actually pouring sugar into things. Yeah, so I'm hiding 332 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: under your bed with a funnel right now. Some sugar. 333 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: On the other hand, Garrison, do you know what else 334 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: will put locomotives in such a condition that will make 335 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: it impossible for them to run? Uh? The is this 336 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: an ad break? This dynamite the products and services that 337 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: support this podcast? There, Yeah, the fucking the rail companies 338 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: are making the trains not be able to work. The 339 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: trains are too long. They are too long. Okay, dynamite. 340 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: The answer is dynamite, and we're back. Okay. So from 341 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: from here, the definition of sabotage starts to sort of 342 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: expand um very rapidly. Here the I w w in 343 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: n about what sabotage is. I'm so curious sabotages is. 344 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: Sabotage is a destruction of profits to gain a definite 345 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: revolutionary economic end. It has many forms. It may mean 346 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: damaging the raw materials is that destined for a scab 347 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: factory or a shop. It may mean spoiling. It may 348 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: mean the spoiling of a finished product. It may mean 349 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: the displacement of parts of machinery or the disarrangement of 350 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: a whole machine, where that machine is the one upon 351 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: which other machines are dependent. From material. It may mean 352 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: working slow, it may mean poor work. It may mean 353 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: missending packages, giving overweight to consumers, pointing out defects and goods, 354 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: using the best material where the employer desires of alteration, 355 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: and also the telling of trade secrets. In fact, it 356 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: has as many variations as there are lines of work. 357 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: This is this is so fascinating because sabotage definitely now 358 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: is way more associated with like earth for like the 359 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: left tactics, and this is like very labor focus. Like 360 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: sabotage is done by the people who are working at 361 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: the factory or place of production on the products that 362 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: they're working on. It's it's that that is extremely fascinating. Yeah, 363 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: And I think there's another thing too, right, because like 364 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: there is the sort of physical aspect of it. But again, 365 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: like this was created as like like as a term 366 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: of sort of like like anarchy, like specifically like syndical 367 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: political struggle, right, Yeah, and as that term like it's 368 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: a lot of what they're talking about when people think 369 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: about sabotage is just like strikes and like labor slowdowns, 370 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: and that that part of the connotation of sabotage has 371 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: just like completely faded and get into sort of like 372 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: how that happens. It's and it's so based on addressing 373 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: actual material changes as opposed to like a lot of sabotage. 374 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: Now is almost like performative like even like even like 375 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: the left type stuff. It does. It does get a 376 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: thing done, like yes, this thing did burn down, but 377 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: they're gonna build another one. It's it's all. It's obviously 378 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: it's four kind of like spectacles built into what the 379 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: actual goal is. And for this kind of stuff, it's 380 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: actually it's about like it's more like improving labor conditions. 381 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: It's based only and like there's a lot of this 382 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: that is this that is specifically designed not to be 383 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: like very noticeable, Like I mean there's there's a very 384 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: common thing. You get strikes like in the US even 385 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: even like sort of like conservative truck restrikes will do 386 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: this thing where like okay, so the truckers will go 387 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: on strike and then they'll hang like basically like hang 388 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: like fragments of metal and shipped from like the top 389 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: of overpasses so that if you drive another truck under 390 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: it or like funk up the top of the truck. 391 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: And that's like that's kind of stuff. Isn't like it's 392 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: not designed specifically, not designed to be public, right, It's 393 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: designed to be something that like, okay, like it's it's, it's, it's, 394 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: it's it's it's about like directly materially hurting the bosses. Yeah, 395 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: over like a long period of time, not just like 396 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: ones like single action you do it and you run 397 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: away and hope and hope never be caught. It's like, no, 398 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: it's gonna work slowly for two years and it costs 399 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: my boss like thousands of dollars in process. I mean 400 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: there there's some there's something like okay, so I I 401 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,400 Speaker 1: guess about it here. So I've been I've been doing 402 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: some episodes. Next week are going to be about Lula, 403 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: who's like the sort of like great uh like originally 404 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 1: labor leader and turns sort of like am I blanking 405 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: on the name of a friend of the people of Haiti. Yeah, 406 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that. That's what he turned into. 407 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: That's nothing else. Yeah, yeah, but he he's a former 408 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: president Brazil, maybe be the next president of Brazil. Also, 409 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, he has this interesting sort of like she 410 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: heals a much of labor organizing under the military ottatorship, 411 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: and he has this really interesting lot because during the 412 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: military Kadership and Brasil, there's a bunch of these sort 413 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: of like like underground leftist paramilitary groups and like like 414 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: his brother gets like arrested by the military and tortured horribly, 415 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: and he has this really interesting line about that talking 416 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: about these contestine groups, which is like, Okay, like I like, 417 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: if you guys had like talked to like the two 418 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: thousand people who work in this factory instead of doing 419 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: this completely contestantly and not even telling your own family 420 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: that you're a communist, Like maybe if you talk to 421 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: people like they couldn't have grabbed you off the street 422 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: and just like arrest like it's like disappeared you overnight 423 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: because there would have been people there and and that 424 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: and that's that's the thing, Like that all of this stuff, 425 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 1: like this kind of sabotage relies on like you and 426 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: like everyone else around you also doing the thing, and 427 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: that makes it harder to crack down on because you 428 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: just you, you know, you sort you have critical mass 429 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, and and and that's something I think is 430 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: is very different from sort of modern sabotage, which is yeah, 431 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: based on these sort of like either either like Okay, 432 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: we're doing this and we're gonna get arrested or it's 433 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: like here is like a secret cell in like the 434 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 1: woods in Oregon, and no none other people, other people 435 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: in this group will ever see each other again after 436 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: they like spike this tree, I wonder if it has 437 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: its roots and like, um, I don't know when these 438 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: like some of people in front existed. But like in 439 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: Britain we have the Luddites and around a similar time, 440 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: who has sometimes seen as one of the original trade unions, 441 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: right who would break break boilers in the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, yeah, 442 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: Britain still incidentally makes it a capital crime to destroy 443 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: a boiler or like a break. Well, it's a way 444 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: of break because what the like the ned Blood is 445 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: just like fictional leader of the Luddites, right, like this 446 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: giant general who's supposed to come and they were like, 447 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: oh it was ned Blood, mate, I don't think about 448 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: it what you're talking about, like they made it a 449 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: capital trying to try but to try and break up 450 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: specifically that right to what like Chris is talking about, 451 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: like like it's obviously like personifying the forces of labor 452 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: as as a giant general is not something that continued 453 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: throughout space some time. But that solidarity where where like 454 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: someone in the factory fucked up the boiler, everyone in 455 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: the factory has something to gain from sucking up the boiler. 456 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: So as long as we don't tell anyone, the boiler 457 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: stays sucked up. Yeah, and interesting, like good actually like 458 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: specifically writes about what he's writing about the stuff the 459 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: stuff in the nineteen third like the late thirties, but 460 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: like he specifically writes about like the thing that that 461 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: that kind of labor struggle in Britain is like one 462 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: of the thing is one of the sort of like forbearers, yeah, yeah, 463 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: thing on them. Yeah. But so this stuff is sort 464 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: of like yeah, a lot a lot of this stuff 465 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: is people. Is people in the age like the eight 466 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: nineties and like hunters like looking back on those groups. 467 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: And Okay, so I want to sort of pivot a 468 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: little bit, which is because so we've mentioned the IWW 469 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: um and the i ww are the people who are 470 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: basically like responsible for associating sabotage with the black cat 471 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: and it's sort of unclear how this happens. Um, here's 472 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: how the modern IWW talks about and SHEW thousand eleven 473 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: it which is like the sort of like sabotage cat picture. 474 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: It was probably conceived by IWW member Ralph Chaplin, most 475 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: famous for penning the IWW labor anthem Solidarity Forever, who 476 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: produced many of the IWW's early silent agitator graphics, which 477 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: themselves had close association with hobo signs described elsewhere in 478 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 1: this gallery. If I culture, we can cut that part. 479 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: Although today the cat has a general association with the IWW, 480 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: sometimes even as its mascot, its original purpose was as 481 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: a code or symbol for direct action at the point 482 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: of production, specifically sabotage. Indeed, the cat may have been 483 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: may even have been chosen due to the convenient word 484 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: place sabo tabby, possibly even a direct inspiration from mel 485 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: Blanc's characterization of bugs bunny. Often bugs bunnies often mispronounced 486 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: sabotage sabotage so really should be as like sabotage icon 487 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: so I was described in the section on sabotage. It 488 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: must be emphasize that the latter did not mean destruction 489 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: of machinery or equipment, although I I really think that's 490 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: partially like that. The modern IWW being like, hey, don't 491 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: sue us, like this, And this is the thing with 492 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: the old i WW is like you'll you'll get you'll 493 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: get like statements from i w W leaders who are like, 494 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: uh we I we We're not the guy. We don't 495 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: like our our strikers aren't the people who break machines. 496 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: There's another group of people who are like here also, 497 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: but who are not us? Who are not us? Who 498 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: are door do who are destroying things? I never do 499 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: crimes great stuff, Only my identical twin Harrison does. Cry. Yeah, 500 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: it's amazing how many symbols of industrial labor come from 501 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: the wobblies, Like the raised fist also comes from the IWW, right, 502 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: Like it's incredible this global impact. Yeah, well, I mean 503 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: like and I think there's a there's a reason for this, 504 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: which is that like, okay, if if you're if you're 505 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: a capitalist in the early nine Dred like this cat 506 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: is the spookiest ship you've ever seen, like like it 507 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: is terrifying, Like they are like groups of wobblies will like, right, 508 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: you step off a boat and people and like the 509 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: like sheriffs would just immediately start shooting them, like it 510 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: is to this day. I think I think that WW 511 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: is the only leftist group in the history of the 512 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: u S outside of Puerto Rico that has ever taken 513 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: in American city, which they did in the UH It 514 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: was a very small town on the border, but they 515 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: actually actually took American cities like during the Mexican Revolution 516 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: um and that mountain maybe United mind. Well they didn't 517 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: actually like that's the thing though, they didn't actually like 518 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: fully like dri drive out like okay, yeah, yeah, like 519 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: like they like the ww like actually fully like took 520 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: over towns and was like whoere the fucking running this dout? 521 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: But you know, but what this thing that starts happening 522 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: here is you get like like people are really desperate, 523 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: like that there's still there's a bunch of houses, Like 524 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of like old mansions from this period 525 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: in like late aighte hundreds, early nine hundreds, like in 526 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: Chicago that are are all built in online in one street. 527 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: And the reason they were all built that way was 528 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: because they wanted to be on on the roads, on 529 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: the road to the nearest military base so that when 530 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: the revolution come they came, they could run and hide. 531 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: Like this is how scared peace people are, and the 532 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: like bosses start offering workers things as a compromise that 533 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: like most people today like think our socialism like they have, 534 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: Like you start getting companies that have like into that 535 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: have their own workers councils in them, like like here 536 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: here is here is the workers council will give the 537 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: workers council budgetrol over how the shot flaw works, like 538 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: please don't overthrow us. Like Rockefeller like develops the idea 539 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: of putting workers on corporate boards, like specifically as a 540 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: way of trying to buy off workers and stopping them 541 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: from like sabotaging their way to revolution and just like 542 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: stealing all Rockefeller's property for the working class. And you know, 543 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: we've been talking about about a lot about this and 544 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: sort of like the American context and like sort of 545 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: the French and English context, but you know, partially because 546 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: the ademology, partially because of like who's involved with like 547 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: the specific black cat think, but like syndicalism, which is 548 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: the sort of like this ideology of using democratic unions 549 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: doing a general strike to like seize control the means 550 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: of production any in the class system. This is fucking everywhere. 551 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,959 Speaker 1: This is these these people spread like wildfire, like I think, 552 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: I think probably the most famous cynicals other than the 553 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: IWW are the CNT in Spain, but like you know, 554 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: the the Italian in in in nineteen nineteen seventeen nineteen nineteen, 555 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: like cyn Nicolas and Italy like very nearly pull off 556 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: a revolution during the period that becomes known as the 557 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: Benni a Rosso or like the two Red Years, they 558 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: wind up being betrayed by the Italian Socialists and that's 559 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: how we get Bussolini but shocked. Yeah, who who who 560 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: could have guessed? But you know, there there are enormous 561 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: cynicalist unions like everywhere that there's there's this huge cynicals 562 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: unions in both Brazil and Argentina and sort of bizarrely, 563 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: both Brazil and Argentina both have these sort of like 564 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: general strike anarchist revolutions in both nineteen seventeen and nineteen nineteen. Yeah, 565 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: it's wild, Like the cynicals are everywhere. There's there's like 566 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: their cynicalist like tin workers in Brazil. There in Venezuela, 567 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: there's an AWW section. In South Africa there's like cynicalas 568 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: and Egypt. They're in Japan like it from from this 569 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: period from like the late eighteen hundreds through really even 570 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: the earlier so the early nineteen twenties, Like these people 571 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: are a pretty significant section of the entire international labor 572 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: and socialist movements, and every word syndicalism goes this black 573 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: cat goes with them. Now, unfortunately, as as the vateing 574 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: Hunters were on that, this the influence of syndicalism begins 575 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: to wane as a combination of both intense post World 576 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: War One repression and you know, as as reaction sort 577 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: of like red scary reactions to uh, the Russian Revolution, 578 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: and also the sort of rise of like Lenin as 579 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: communist parties who have their own doctrines that don't like 580 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: rely on sabotage in the sort of theoretical sense that 581 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: cyn nicolism does. And this this has like this, this, this, 582 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,239 Speaker 1: this has a bunch of sort of malign effects on 583 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: what people think sabotage is. Unfortunately, but do you know 584 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: what else degraded the use of sabotages of political and 585 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: ideological weapon. It's it's it's the advertising industrial. Yeah it 586 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: was not the boys and we are back. But wait, 587 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: there's still more sabotage because unfortunately, you know, as as 588 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: the sort of like the cyneclest movement is declining, and 589 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: like every single one of these people is getting shot. Uh, 590 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: there was waiting in the wings. Another type of sabotage 591 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: that we've talked about a lot on this show. And yeah, 592 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: this is ecological sabotage, which I'm okay. I also see 593 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: people calling it eco taj and like, I'm sorry, I 594 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you all forest defenders. That 595 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: is a dogshit word like eco tag, Like come on, 596 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: like this is this is not this is not actually 597 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: a good word. We could do better. Um. It's also 598 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: called monkey wrenching after the the work of ecological activists 599 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: in veterate racist Edward Abbey, that's right and sexist. Don't 600 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: don't let him off the hook. Oh yeah yeah yeah, 601 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: old white dude Edward Abbey. Yeah he's he's a very 602 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: like this is a very like Pacific Northwest kind of 603 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: guy who that's true. Yeah yeah, it's like a guy 604 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: who's white really likes forest, does not like brown people. 605 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: He loves the fucking desert like yeah, yeah, desert boomers 606 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: loves some med with Abbey. They pay it. I was 607 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: in Moab recently and like the amount of people selling 608 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: like first editions of Edward Abbey books without like entire 609 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: like first edition to like Earth first gathering posters and 610 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: stuff like thousands someone who's on an off road safari. 611 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: Oh nice, Yeah, that's copy the most maybe a first edition. Actually, 612 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: do you do you want to tell the crowd what 613 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: this book is about? That gang? Yeah? Oh, it's a 614 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 1: group of people who have some fun times as people 615 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: who travel around. They play with some trains, um and 616 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: some diggers. They play with diggers. Yes, yes, they were 617 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: they were diggers. Yeah, I don't know. He was just 618 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: having fun times. Also, this is something that I did 619 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: not know for a while. But Edward Abbey also wrote 620 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: one of the adaptations of Lolita to play on stage. 621 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: Oh shout, I forgot about that. Yeah, I just un 622 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: problematic guy doing fascinating stuff. He disubs trees. Yeah, well, okay, 623 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: so he's the one genuinely unproblematic thing. He wrote this. 624 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: You are another book called Eco Well, okay, so he's 625 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: involved in the writing of this. There's a lot of 626 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people have tributed to this, but 627 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: he's involved in the writing of a book called Eco 628 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: Defensive Field Guide to Monkey Wrenching, which is this like 629 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: unbelievably intricate and detailed guy to doing everything from like 630 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: tree spike power lines to breaking ranching equipment to sabotaging 631 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: vehicles and aircraft, of freeing animals from traps, to defeating surveillance, 632 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: the sinking ships to a section that is called only 633 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: quote fun with sling shots. Even in Lucky Wrench Gang 634 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: he goes into great detail about how to start a 635 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: caterpillar like bulldozer, like like a lot of it was 636 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: like how to do terrorism, but like in a novel, 637 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: I like it's fantastic. Yeah, well, it's like that. There's 638 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: a whole genre of like of post World War two 639 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: French films that are this with prison breaks where it's 640 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: like as a bunch of people hold people who have 641 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: been in concentration camps and like had broken out of them, 642 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: are making these movies that are like just really intricate. Okay, okay, 643 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: this is how you make a lock pick, like this 644 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: is this is how you figure out guards like shift changes, 645 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: like this is how you like take out these boards. 646 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 1: It's great stuff and it's it's one of one of 647 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: the better kinds of things and eco defense, Like it's 648 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: not the most banned book I've ever seen in a 649 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: world that goes to yeah, it's it's not okay. So, 650 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: on the one hand, like the FBI is in a 651 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 1: weird position because they can't like technically ban it, be 652 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: because the US has this thing called the First Amendment 653 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: that like hand sometimes winning court. Here's here's the the 654 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: Ego Defense Handbook was not written by Edward Abbey. It 655 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: was written by David Foreman. Okay, Uh, there was a 656 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: foreword in the book written by Edward Abbey. Okay, that 657 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: that's the pros he wasn't. I think I think he 658 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: was involved with the publication with it. Like he's somewhat 659 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: like David Foreman and Edward Abbey were friends. They were 660 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: they were Abby Abby Abby. Abbey is less involved with 661 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: this insofar as he like Foremen. Like the FBI tries 662 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: to like entrap him for writing this book, like like 663 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: all most of the people who like actually sections to this. Yeah, 664 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: like all these people like people start. The FBI tries 665 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: to arrest him on other stuff because unfortunately this book 666 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: doesn't violate traffic law, so they can't arrescue for it. 667 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: And okay, I do buy it on ab Yeah, yeah, 668 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: it's from the Anarchists Library for free. Yeah, don't buy it, 669 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Bezos your money. Yeah, so it turned on a 670 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: VPN used tour and go to the Anarchists Library. It's 671 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: it's in this category of books that are like like okay, 672 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 1: when when would you have your norble band books list? 673 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: They don't include. There just two kinds of books they include. 674 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,319 Speaker 1: One is they don't include book where it's like, well, 675 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: they didn't technically ban the book, but they tried to 676 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: arrest everyone who wrote it. And then two they don't 677 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: include our Fredo Bonano's arm Joy, a book for which 678 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: she was arrested, thrown in prison, and kept through well 679 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: the Italian government, on orders from the Supreme Court, like 680 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: took every copy they could find, lit it on fire 681 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,919 Speaker 1: and giant bonfires. The other thing with that you could 682 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: have hand sam book even if they did not arrest 683 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: the owners. I've talked with a lot of green anarchists 684 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: from who who were active during the Green Scare, and 685 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: they definitely arrested people just for having having like like 686 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: if like if you had it, that was evidence that 687 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: you were a terrorist, Like it was something that like 688 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: you don't talk about, you don't put your fingerprints on 689 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: it um because having this book could get you in trouble, 690 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: like you don't like it's it's, it's it's there's there's 691 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: multiple ways to ban a book, one of them being 692 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: if you have it, they're gonna try to charge you 693 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: with like terrorism enhancement, stuffy case pretext. So yeah, fun book, yeah, 694 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: and so, and like I think yeah calling it like 695 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: I think with so, I think a lot of the 696 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: stuff that people were doing that I called monkey wrenching 697 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: or sort of like ecological savage was just just called 698 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: eco terrorism today because people have just well there's like 699 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 1: a whole loop of this, right, because there's there's there's 700 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: there's the fbig, the green, scary growing like, all of 701 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: this is terrorism. We're going to use the fucking entire 702 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: like giant like military appric actually built up to like 703 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: go after a bunch of people setting free animals. But 704 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: then but then like like at some point and this 705 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: is this is I think thing. It's very interesting in 706 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: the last sort of like five ten years, like people 707 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: who weren't really involved with the original stuff decided that 708 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: eco terrorism was cool, and now every one on Twitter 709 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: just talks about eco terrorism all the time, which is 710 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: like they talk about an interesting term, Well they don't 711 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: this the thing those people don't do it, and it's 712 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: like come on, like but on the other hand, there 713 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,760 Speaker 1: are a lot of people like we should maybe caveat 714 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 1: for our British listeners that you absolutely can be prosecuted 715 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: for having that book, and multiple people have been prosecuted 716 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: in the last two years. And the Anarchist Cookbook. I 717 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: mean you could still be oh yeah, it's like they 718 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: can they can't possess. Yeah, even if you're an American 719 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: you can still get They've still gotten people for having 720 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: the book. Like it's it's it's that's that's that's the 721 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: interesting thing about how the cenership works, right, is it 722 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: like like you are allowed to be a capitalist and 723 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: sell it, but you're not You're not allowed to buy 724 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: it because a terrorist. Yeah, wonderful stuff. Yeah, in Britain, 725 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: you can't even things like the Anarchist Cookbook, Like people 726 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: have been prosecuted people and anyone should be prosecuted for 727 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: the Anchist clickbook because because it's dogshit, anyone's pretty bad. Yeah. 728 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do like a deep dive into 729 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: the history of all the ship that's been blamed on 730 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: that book, and yeah, all the people have. And it's 731 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: funny too because it's not like the Army literally doesn't 732 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: publish fucking Field manually, but you could just buy it 733 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: a store that like has all the same ship Like yeah, 734 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: but you know, terrorism is when we do it and 735 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: not when they do it. That's right. So I want 736 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 1: to talk about so like this whole thing is is 737 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: a product of like this, like you know, this is 738 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,360 Speaker 1: what sabotag turns into. Right, And there's you know, and 739 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: so some of the people stuff that like is being 740 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: done here isn't really that destructive. Like a lot of 741 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: people like you know, like people people like sitting in trees. Right, 742 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:39,439 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff that sort of like civil 743 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: disobedience that is like you know, including this stuff. But 744 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: then there's also like but you know, but but like 745 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: stuff like spiking trees is where you I think you 746 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: and it's basically destroying construction equipment is where stuff you 747 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: start you start to get this sort of like modern 748 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: understanding of sabotaloge is like a thing that like an 749 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: activist does to like a piece of machinery. But you know, 750 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: like that there's a lot of things people do, like 751 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: people sabotage like whaling ships. But then also I want 752 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: to sort of close the episode with this is that 753 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of people in a lot of 754 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: other places in the world who do, like who do 755 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff for ecological defense that doesn't get 756 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,320 Speaker 1: put under this framework, where for example, there are groups 757 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: like the Nitrow Delta Avengers who are like, Okay, fuck it, 758 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: if the if the Nigerian government is just going to 759 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: execute ecological activists, We're gonna pick up guns, we're gonna 760 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: blow up pipelight pipelines, and we're gonna start shooting. And 761 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 1: you know there there's ground in between, like the sort 762 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: of like we're gonna do sabotage and we're going to 763 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: like do arms struggle like an Ecuador for example, one 764 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: of the responses you see to sort of like a 765 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: tax in indigenous land by capitalist developers in indigenous groups 766 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: being just like funcket, we're doing an uprising and then 767 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people like spend three weeks fighting 768 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: and fighting cops in the street until they stop. And 769 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: you also see stuff that's like it's kind of like 770 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: because so what one of the other specifically in France 771 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: they do this all the fucking time. I like one 772 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 1: one of the older sort of like workers like sabotage 773 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 1: tactics is just like you kidnapped your manager and love 774 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: like people do this like now in France, Like it's 775 00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: just like, okay, you're the manager. You can't leave until 776 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: you greet it or demand like, but like when people 777 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: will do this in ecological settings, will like a government 778 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: sending a government minister to like negotiate something that would 779 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: be there'll be like a my manager around and people 780 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: will just be like, okay, like we're kidnapping you, like 781 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: we'll let you go when you stop doing this, and 782 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,320 Speaker 1: that's good good stuff. Yeah, And I think and I 783 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: think like and these tactics also sort of spread, like 784 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: for example, in Chile, if you look at like if 785 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: you look at their sort of like milit and ecological struggles, 786 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: especially like indigenous the Puchaer resistance, like that is a 787 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: place that like more than anywhere else have ever seen 788 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: love setting construction equipment on fire, like they really they 789 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: really like lighting bacos on fire. It's it's it's good stuff. Um. 790 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: But you have having sort of said all of this, 791 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,880 Speaker 1: like the fact that sabotage is synonymous was sort of 792 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: like property destruction is I, like, I genuinely think like 793 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: a triumph of of corporate propaganda because the original meeting 794 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: of it, right, and the original politics behind it, which 795 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: which is this like very explicit class politics of like 796 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,239 Speaker 1: fuck it, Like if we are not going to get 797 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: the actual like products of our own labor, we are 798 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,879 Speaker 1: either not going to work we are going to take 799 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 1: it from you, or were you going to make sure 800 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: that you also don't get the products of our labor? 801 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,720 Speaker 1: Like that's so's just sort of gone and that's that's 802 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: that's very sad to be because it's it's it's a 803 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: good politics and we need more of it. And yeah, 804 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 1: all of this sort of is to say that workers 805 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,800 Speaker 1: have no reason to fear the black cat, but boss's 806 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,399 Speaker 1: owners and capitalists live in fear. Your time will come, 807 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 1: happy Halloween Happy? How is the cut fences? Somehow I 808 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: didn't somehow I never mentioned bolt cutters in here, which 809 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: is sort of wild. Oh yeah, actually so some some 810 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: something I learned on a job once is that like, okay, so, 811 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: so like bart razor wire is really scary stuff like 812 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: it has like it has like anti clouding agents in 813 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: it that like I've like on the wire, but I've 814 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: gotten pasted a lot of raising wi. Yeah, well but 815 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: I mean the thing the thing about this, right is 816 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,879 Speaker 1: it like you could just cut, Like it's actually really 817 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: easy to just cut, like the chains on the chain link. 818 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: So many people, many people have very strong like you 819 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: can just sort of do this and like this and 820 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: this is this is useful for a lot of things, 821 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: like for example, you have to break down sections, offences 822 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: and fences in your lawn. Like, yeah you can. You 823 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,399 Speaker 1: can do lots of fun things with boat cutters. Keep 824 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:36,439 Speaker 1: the kids, oh tin snaps, keep the kids off your lawn. Yeah, 825 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: it could happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 826 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,040 Speaker 1: Or more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 827 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 828 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 829 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could 830 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 1: Happen here, updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com 831 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.